Thanks for posting these Gec videos. I found Gec's RUclips page and watched both of there factory tour videos and you can tell that guy that owns the company really cares. I'm going to buy one soon. There fit and finish is amazing with those old machines. Great video!
A very nice collection! According to Great Eastern Cutlery, all their knives are made from 1095 carbon steel, just like the old-time American made pocket knives of the past. My own collection of mostly Case pocket knives are carbon steel, by my choice, and preference over stainless steels. I have no problems with corrosion whatsoever with the knives kept dry in a drawer, at room temperature. Again, a very nice collection of very attractive and functional knives!
All pretty much are just collectibles novelty knives due to rust tendencies. All are two hand operation, making it not as practical or easy to operate than say a Sypderco Delica 4. Nice collection though and I can see why. They are pretty. If you're an American knife traditionalist/collector I think GEC knives are the ones to collect. Thanks for sharing, thumbs up!
UPDATE: I thought I'd buy some Ballistol & used on 6 of my knives. I already had Walker Wax on my blades & outside handles. Used the Ballistol for the blade wells & left a light film of it inside the knives. ALERT!!! It began corroding the brass liners rapidly! Did some research, sure enough, the stuff EATS BRASS!!! I think because you applied the mineral oil, it diluted the Ballistol & saved your brass. I used polish & saved em all thankfully. Please be aware of this!!!
The lockback model you describe as #19, I can't seem to find anywhere online. Is that the GEC model number? It's exactly the shape and dimension I've been looking for.
Have to tell you that the older knives weren't acrylic handles, they were actually celluloid. This is why they outgassed and will ruin your other knives. No fear of this happening with these acrylics.
Not sure I would use Ballistol. I love it for my guns but it is also made to cut brass and copper to clean it out of your guns after use. I'm not sure what it would do to the brass liners on those knives.
very good point dont know if I mentioned it here or later but I only NOW use it for cleaning old knives in need of love. Bali is not good for preservation I use mineral oil and yes Bali will corrode the brass I have seen it with my own eyes thank you
Would patinating in a citric acid prevent the spotting on that GEC you mentioned as being badly corroded after a week of sitting? In a way patinating creates one uniform spot, which is actually no spot at all. The deep grey can look awesome, especially on a knife that sees regular use. I used lemon just on a nasty Cold Steel I found while hunting and on a badly rusted Western skinner. Rust off, beautiful patina on.
(see my other reply, sorry) Clarification: I use the Walker Wax on my blades,bolsters& handles (stag, bone, safe for all, use a Q-tip & a tiny amount of mineral oil to get the wax out of cracks & crevices in stag & bone, toothpicks for the tiniest places) and then the mineral oil for the entire inside of the knife & joints. Same procedure for my knives w/stainless or nickel silver liners, and replace the mineral oil with Ballistol. It definitely lasts longer than the mineral oil. Love your vids!
Doggo!!! Great to see you slipping back into some slip joint time! Excellent vid (as usual). By the way, I bought a "Rust Eraser" from SMKW...and IT WORKS. Old rust, new rust, spotting...it REMOVES the rust. Cost me something like $7. You can find it on their web site. This is a MUST HAVE for anyone with 1095 and other high carbon steels.
Been waitin' to see your GEC's in more detail, thanks!! I just bought this new stuff from KnivesShip f r e e called Walker Wax. About $20. In head2head test against Ren wax, Blade Forum says the Walker wins. The inventor says he put some test knives away for 2 years & no corrosion yet. I use it and oil my joints & Remington Dry Lube in the blade wells. The Walker wax cleans & polishes in 1 step. DON'T let it sit over a minute, buff off in 30 seconds or so. Gonna PM you about something. Great vid
I understand some people use knives as investments or for collections. I prefer to use them. I have several $300.00 GEC knives that ride in my pocket and cut apples and string and boxes. I prefer to enjoy my knives and watch them wear and patina. I want to have fun with my knives and not leave them to someone else to have fun with when I die. ; )
I have plenty of users my current is a Tony Bose Damascus kickback whittled Case I use the hell out of it. Cut flooring etc name it, I also collect, I also invest, I also review, film, store, sale, research, repair, upgrade, earn a salary, share, gift, giveaway and customize knives. How can one make videos like mine from just reading books or hiding knives away. Take a hobby, enjoy it, and if you wish make money from this hobby, I show many how to do this and these ideas can work for many collectables Thanks for watching GEC is such a great knife, I have had one issue with one but I've used four so a 25% fail rate. Back spring cracked, sent it to GEC two weeks later knife returned, looks like new ...... Can't beat that. I was not hard on it but it use it a lot, I require a knife so yea
Good. Use em hard. No sense leaving unused knives to someone who won't appreciate them. I have been to many estate sales and always think about all the unused, expensive tools etc. being sold to strangers because the kids have no appreciation for them and the owner never used them either. They can have mine worn out, dull and rusted.
Great video, I’m glad I stumbled on your channel. I recently purchased my first GEC #78 with the carbon steel blade and noticed staining after first use (cutting fruit). While I don’t mind the knife building character I wonder, is there any method / product I can use to bring back the original look of the blade?
Those old machines work better than the new stamp production lines used today. These are Semi Custom level quality knives, their is no brand today "current production" made better than GEC
I have a handful of gec knives, but two of them are gec brand/440c knives. Those two are an american elk stag muskrat, and a red diamond bone model 23 pioneer (large trapper basically). I like those knives as much as the carbon ones, intend to buy more.
Nice collection of GEC knives. I have great respect for a company that makes quality knives in the US. That said, I don't know why defenders of carbon steel feel a stainless steel blade can't also be as sharp. I carry a couple of Opinel Inox folders when traveling, and I keep the blades razor sharp. I don't mind C. S. blades in the kitchen, where I can easily keep clean and oiled, but not in a pocket knife, especially when traveling and using it for food. Just don't like the metallic taste it leaves on food. I do own a couple of carbon steel folders, but they mostly stay at home and are used for non-food related tasks.
Exactly, but you stated that any differences were due to the STEEL. You didn't specify that any variation was due to different H/T batches. I buy from several sources, at different dates, and different prices just like GEC and I'm telling you that if things are done correctly the variations in steel are so small that it is impossible for you or anyone else to tell one batch of XXXX steel was different from another batch of XXXX steel. I not only make knives, I test them as well and I've done non-destructive and destructive testing. As a matter of fact, I test EVERY knife I make before I finish it so I know bit about that stuff too.
great collection! Concerning Ballistol: I do not know anything better for cleaning weapons or knives. But for conservation it is according to my experience (in monsoon climate) not my No.1. Ballistol consists of paraffine and alcohol and emulsifies with water or air humidity, what means in case of carbon blades or other metals with corrosion tendency it is not a valid conservation method. I use meanwhile WD40 and/or petrol jelly - also not 100% sure but still better than Ballistol. rgds, Robert
Hey, no harm done. After making this discovery, I have devoted the Ballistol for my knives with stainless or nickel silver liners only. No sense in letting it go to waste! ha ha. Don't forget about giving Walker Wax a try. The inventor applied it to some test knives, put them away, 2 years later, no corrosion or rust of any kind. And it's safe to use the knife on food. Conclusion: Walker Wax w/mineral oil for the joints & blade wells with brass liners. Walker Wax & Ballistol 4stainless & silver
Hey buddy, can you please point me in the right direction on where to buy some good felt lined storage cases, similer to what you have in this vid with the compartments. Thanks
AAPK, Ebay make sure they are USA made the Chinese types will damage your collection. I think Ive done a vid on these cases, I would have to search my channel
Doggorunning I apologize, I meant the felt lined trays like the one in your"Great Eastern Cutlery Tour" and" GEC Knives and a Story About Carbon Blades" vids.
Sure I EDC two gEC knives, these are my collector knives. Cost $55 each back then worth double if not triple that now, a collection is for enjoyment and investment, well at least it is for me. Better than the stock market and numbers on a statement that bring u no enjoyment at all.
funny Ive used a few and one very hard never had an issue except a spring that developed a crack after a year of use. Just sent it to them, came back like a brand new knife. How well a company backs up their products is a plus for me. Now traditional knives will never out perform modern tactical knives when it comes to hard use but that being said the traditional knife has many other attributes that a thick ass 154CPM folder has.
I have tried every thing. Lucas synthetic is the best and it smell so good. One drop for a knife and two for a revolver. Try Brownells , for best prices.
alright. ill save up to add em all to my collection. considering used its a pretty solid offer dont you agree... maybe could do a lot price for 3 or 4 pieces. i really love your collection btw beautiful
Jason M I price my knives by past eBay sales, then I subtract at least 10% from that, this is your price. If you do buy from me you're basically getting pricing without all the fees
Jason M to price this knife would take time as its serialized making them more money. I have less valuable but in my opinion better knives for much less cash. When I get up and running again I'm going to have some nice deals
The best way to prevent rust on carbon blades is to use them. A rolling stone gathers no moss... Also, I'm not sure what your environmental conditions are like but you act like these knives are constantly at threat of just rusting away. I own numerous carbon blades, use them all, and rarely cover them in any "preservative" when I store them away. Good video, and decent tips of maintenance but I feel you may have inadvertently scared some people away from carbon blades by making them seem super unstable or something.
+no name I have a large collection, many brands before these GEC's had an issue I would have thought to myself what you commented. Its not a hit on Carbon blades or GEC but generations raised on cheap Chinese stainless steel knives, don't understand why you would worry about rust. For one the Chinese knives last less than a year and stainless won't rust in most cases. I carry carbon steel blades never had an issue, I prefer carbon blades, with these knives the conditions were perfect I guess cause the whole display got zapped by rust
40belowful Its cheap and I use it on all my knives, tools its safe to ingest. Also it doesn't react bad with anything ie brass and coatings. All those sprays are made for guns and designed to clean, remove lead, gun power stuff like that. These sprays and oils can really harm your knives. Mineral oil preserves everything from stag, bone, all metals. When folks buy knives if asked I alway throw in a small oil bottle full of mineral oil. My video are designed to save you money, free info for the knife collector. Mistakes can be expensive
its a stamp laser etching burns into the metal, GEC uses the old method. The etches are not suppose to last long, and do not effect the material in any negative way.
Also good on you for collecting these old knives. I'm sick of seeing videos on the new traditional knives. I'm more interested in antiques and older knives for both collecting and use.
Draco Venit checkout my vids on my collection I have allot of old knives, I also have a video on the GEC factory; they make all the knives on the old equipment
Your claims of carbon steels being inconsistent are a fallacy. When steels are smelted they are alloyed within a very narrow range. Any variance that would be noticeable in actual use would be due to inconsistencies in the heat treating from batch to batch. As a knifemaker I promise that I can control my processes closely enough to insure cinsistency from knife to knife. I do not make exaggerated claims or promise magical properties that other people can't replicate but I can guarantee consistency from one blade to the next.
+darrin sanders Agree but all the Carbon steel knives I have were not made in the same batch even the same knife models can be of different batches. If you're a custom maker you're thinking small, these are companies that buy from many sources, different dates, different prices, different companies, I could keep going. I'm very familiar with metals and how they're made for 20 years I was an Non Destructive Inspector, I've tested thousands of samples; different properties and defects can occur in many areas of production. With our technology of today these variations and defects are few but smiths will roll their eyes when I show up but when your job is to inspect others work. Well no one likes to hear anyone tell them they f@@ked it away :) Nothing magic in blade steels they all have benefits and disadvantages, its up to the end user to decide whats right for him.
Thanks for posting these Gec videos. I found Gec's RUclips page and watched both of there factory tour videos and you can tell that guy that owns the company really cares. I'm going to buy one soon. There fit and finish is amazing with those old machines. Great video!
A very nice collection! According to Great Eastern Cutlery, all their knives are made from 1095 carbon steel, just like the old-time American made pocket knives of the past. My own collection of mostly Case pocket knives are carbon steel, by my choice, and preference over stainless steels. I have no problems with corrosion whatsoever with the knives kept dry in a drawer, at room temperature. Again, a very nice collection of very attractive and functional knives!
All pretty much are just collectibles novelty knives due to rust tendencies. All are two hand operation, making it not as practical or easy to operate than say a Sypderco Delica 4. Nice collection though and I can see why. They are pretty. If you're an American knife traditionalist/collector I think GEC knives are the ones to collect. Thanks for sharing, thumbs up!
UPDATE: I thought I'd buy some Ballistol & used on 6 of my knives. I already had Walker Wax on my blades & outside handles. Used the Ballistol for the blade wells & left a light film of it inside the knives. ALERT!!! It began corroding the brass liners rapidly! Did some research, sure enough, the stuff EATS BRASS!!! I think because you applied the mineral oil, it diluted the Ballistol & saved your brass. I used polish & saved em all thankfully. Please be aware of this!!!
The lockback model you describe as #19, I can't seem to find anywhere online. Is that the GEC model number? It's exactly the shape and dimension I've been looking for.
They are made in limited number's, the one here has been out of production for about 6-7 years.
Have to tell you that the older knives weren't acrylic handles, they were actually celluloid. This is why they outgassed and will ruin your other knives. No fear of this happening with these acrylics.
Not sure I would use Ballistol. I love it for my guns but it is also made to cut brass and copper to clean it out of your guns after use. I'm not sure what it would do to the brass liners on those knives.
very good point dont know if I mentioned it here or later but I only NOW use it for cleaning old knives in need of love. Bali is not good for preservation I use mineral oil and yes Bali will corrode the brass I have seen it with my own eyes thank you
Lucas synthetic
Would patinating in a citric acid prevent the spotting on that GEC you mentioned as being badly corroded after a week of sitting? In a way patinating creates one uniform spot, which is actually no spot at all. The deep grey can look awesome, especially on a knife that sees regular use. I used lemon just on a nasty Cold Steel I found while hunting and on a badly rusted Western skinner. Rust off, beautiful patina on.
James Herrington yes this seems to work well I used mustard
(see my other reply, sorry) Clarification: I use the Walker Wax on my blades,bolsters& handles (stag, bone, safe for all, use a Q-tip & a tiny amount of mineral oil to get the wax out of cracks & crevices in stag & bone, toothpicks for the tiniest places) and then the mineral oil for the entire inside of the knife & joints. Same procedure for my knives w/stainless or nickel silver liners, and replace the mineral oil with Ballistol. It definitely lasts longer than the mineral oil. Love your vids!
Ballistol stinks , one drop with Lucas synthetic.
Doggo!!! Great to see you slipping back into some slip joint time! Excellent vid (as usual). By the way, I bought a "Rust Eraser" from SMKW...and IT WORKS. Old rust, new rust, spotting...it REMOVES the rust. Cost me something like $7. You can find it on their web site. This is a MUST HAVE for anyone with 1095 and other high carbon steels.
Been waitin' to see your GEC's in more detail, thanks!! I just bought this new stuff from KnivesShip f r e e called Walker Wax. About $20. In head2head test against Ren wax, Blade Forum says the Walker wins. The inventor says he put some test knives away for 2 years & no corrosion yet. I use it and oil my joints & Remington Dry Lube in the blade wells. The Walker wax cleans & polishes in 1 step. DON'T let it sit over a minute, buff off in 30 seconds or so. Gonna PM you about something. Great vid
I understand some people use knives as investments or for collections. I prefer to use them. I have several $300.00 GEC knives that ride in my pocket and cut apples and string and boxes. I prefer to enjoy my knives and watch them wear and patina. I want to have fun with my knives and not leave them to someone else to have fun with when I die. ; )
I have plenty of users my current is a Tony Bose Damascus kickback whittled Case I use the hell out of it. Cut flooring etc name it, I also collect, I also invest, I also review, film, store, sale, research, repair, upgrade, earn a salary, share, gift, giveaway and customize knives. How can one make videos like mine from just reading books or hiding knives away. Take a hobby, enjoy it, and if you wish make money from this hobby, I show many how to do this and these ideas can work for many collectables
Thanks for watching GEC is such a great knife, I have had one issue with one but I've used four so a 25% fail rate. Back spring cracked, sent it to GEC two weeks later knife returned, looks like new ...... Can't beat that. I was not hard on it but it use it a lot, I require a knife so yea
Good. Use em hard. No sense leaving unused knives to someone who won't appreciate them. I have been to many estate sales and always think about all the unused, expensive tools etc. being sold to strangers because the kids have no appreciation for them and the owner never used them either. They can have mine worn out, dull and rusted.
Great video, I’m glad I stumbled on your channel. I recently purchased my first GEC #78 with the carbon steel blade and noticed staining after first use (cutting fruit). While I don’t mind the knife building character I wonder, is there any method / product I can use to bring back the original look of the blade?
right on !
Those old machines work better than the new stamp production lines used today. These are Semi Custom level quality knives, their is no brand today "current production" made better than GEC
I have a handful of gec knives, but two of them are gec brand/440c knives. Those two are an american elk stag muskrat, and a red diamond bone model 23 pioneer (large trapper basically). I like those knives as much as the carbon ones, intend to buy more.
Tip: put those "do not eat" silica bags in your box to dehumidify it.
Super interested in the number 4. I could never part with the number 3 if I had that in my possession Doggo.
Nice collection of GEC knives. I have great respect for a company that makes quality knives in the US. That said, I don't know why defenders of carbon steel feel a stainless steel blade can't also be as sharp. I carry a couple of Opinel Inox folders when traveling, and I keep the blades razor sharp. I don't mind C. S. blades in the kitchen, where I can easily keep clean and oiled, but not in a pocket knife, especially when traveling and using it for food. Just don't like the metallic taste it leaves on food. I do own a couple of carbon steel folders, but they mostly stay at home and are used for non-food related tasks.
Exactly, but you stated that any differences were due to the STEEL. You didn't specify that any variation was due to different H/T batches. I buy from several sources, at different dates, and different prices just like GEC and I'm telling you that if things are done correctly the variations in steel are so small that it is impossible for you or anyone else to tell one batch of XXXX steel was different from another batch of XXXX steel. I not only make knives, I test them as well and I've done non-destructive and destructive testing. As a matter of fact, I test EVERY knife I make before I finish it so I know bit about that stuff too.
yea knifin is experimenting at times
Hello,
which item number have the knife from 10:48 min. and 11:08 min. Please?
Thanks for an answer
T. F.
great collection!
Concerning Ballistol: I do not know anything better for cleaning weapons or knives. But for conservation it is according to my experience (in monsoon climate) not my No.1. Ballistol consists of paraffine and alcohol and emulsifies with water or air humidity, what means in case of carbon blades or other metals with corrosion tendency it is not a valid conservation method.
I use meanwhile WD40 and/or petrol jelly - also not 100% sure but still better than Ballistol.
rgds, Robert
Hey, no harm done. After making this discovery, I have devoted the Ballistol for my knives with stainless or nickel silver liners only. No sense in letting it go to waste! ha ha. Don't forget about giving Walker Wax a try. The inventor applied it to some test knives, put them away, 2 years later, no corrosion or rust of any kind. And it's safe to use the knife on food. Conclusion: Walker Wax w/mineral oil for the joints & blade wells with brass liners. Walker Wax & Ballistol 4stainless & silver
How do you clean the inside of the back spring?
Hey buddy, can you please point me in the right direction on where to buy some good felt lined storage cases, similer to what you have in this vid with the compartments.
Thanks
AAPK, Ebay make sure they are USA made the Chinese types will damage your collection. I think Ive done a vid on these cases, I would have to search my channel
Doggorunning Do they have A specific name? I search for felt lined knife tray, and can' find oneThanks
***** hickory hill knife roll I will message you a link to my vid on them
Doggorunning I apologize, I meant the felt lined trays like the one in your"Great Eastern Cutlery Tour" and" GEC Knives and a Story About Carbon Blades" vids.
***** owe those, don't know where to get those, I picked those up at Smoky Mountain knife store they may have some on line check them out
Do you have any that you just use and let get some character without fear of a few corrosion spots?
Sure I EDC two gEC knives, these are my collector knives. Cost $55 each back then worth double if not triple that now, a collection is for enjoyment and investment, well at least it is for me. Better than the stock market and numbers on a statement that bring u no enjoyment at all.
I agree, I only own two GEC blades but I use them I get the most enjoyment that way
i have a few of these knives there ok to look at but once you apply any sort of pressure on the knife they develop blade play
funny Ive used a few and one very hard never had an issue except a spring that developed a crack after a year of use. Just sent it to them, came back like a brand new knife. How well a company backs up their products is a plus for me. Now traditional knives will never out perform modern tactical knives when it comes to hard use but that being said the traditional knife has many other attributes that a thick ass 154CPM folder has.
Have you tried frog lube?
I use mineral oil now frog lube sounds good but never had an issue with the cheap mineral oil
I have tried every thing. Lucas synthetic is the best and it smell so good. One drop for a knife and two for a revolver. Try Brownells , for best prices.
Damn I love when you talk about
Still got your GECs?
Oooo.. you have a trapper problem as well. I feel your pain.
would you sell the linerlock in stag
whats your favourite gec that is semi affordable? want to get into gec
GEC Farm & Field Hand, its my EDC and very affordable 1:40
thank you
Go to Gunstock Jack's web-sight. Barry has GEC #38 green bone knives for $69 shipped. made in 2017
would you consider selling the #23 sheep horn $170?
Everything is for sale but Im to busy to sell for the next year or so. Very big transition in my life, subscribe its going to be interresting
alright. ill save up to add em all to my collection. considering used its a pretty solid offer dont you agree... maybe could do a lot price for 3 or 4 pieces. i really love your collection btw beautiful
Jason M I price my knives by past eBay sales, then I subtract at least 10% from that, this is your price. If you do buy from me you're basically getting pricing without all the fees
Jason M to price this knife would take time as its serialized making them more money. I have less valuable but in my opinion better knives for much less cash. When I get up and running again I'm going to have some nice deals
The best way to prevent rust on carbon blades is to use them. A rolling stone gathers no moss...
Also, I'm not sure what your environmental conditions are like but you act like these knives are constantly at threat of just rusting away. I own numerous carbon blades, use them all, and rarely cover them in any "preservative" when I store them away. Good video, and decent tips of maintenance but I feel you may have inadvertently scared some people away from carbon blades by making them seem super unstable or something.
He lives in a swamp
+no name I have a large collection, many brands before these GEC's had an issue I would have thought to myself what you commented. Its not a hit on Carbon blades or GEC but generations raised on cheap Chinese stainless steel knives, don't understand why you would worry about rust. For one the Chinese knives last less than a year and stainless won't rust in most cases. I carry carbon steel blades never had an issue, I prefer carbon blades, with these knives the conditions were perfect I guess cause the whole display got zapped by rust
So what mineral oil do you use??
Go to any drugstore and get 100% mineral oil with no additives perfume etc you will find it in the laxative section
Thanks :)
40belowful Its cheap and I use it on all my knives, tools its safe to ingest. Also it doesn't react bad with anything ie brass and coatings. All those sprays are made for guns and designed to clean, remove lead, gun power stuff like that. These sprays and oils can really harm your knives. Mineral oil preserves everything from stag, bone, all metals. When folks buy knives if asked I alway throw in a small oil bottle full of mineral oil. My video are designed to save you money, free info for the knife collector. Mistakes can be expensive
The clear kind in the bottle at Walmart.
CPC is great stuff
No laser etching for me. Though beautiful knives.
its a stamp laser etching burns into the metal, GEC uses the old method. The etches are not suppose to last long, and do not effect the material in any negative way.
So if you use the knife and sharpen and polish it etc it will over a little time disappear?
Also good on you for collecting these old knives. I'm sick of seeing videos on the new traditional knives. I'm more interested in antiques and older knives for both collecting and use.
Draco Venit checkout my vids on my collection I have allot of old knives, I also have a video on the GEC factory; they make all the knives on the old equipment
I will. Thanks,
Well, that's what I get for posting prior to finishing the vid. You, of course, know all about the eraser! LOL.
Your claims of carbon steels being inconsistent are a fallacy. When steels are smelted they are alloyed within a very narrow range. Any variance that would be noticeable in actual use would be due to inconsistencies in the heat treating from batch to batch. As a knifemaker I promise that I can control my processes closely enough to insure cinsistency from knife to knife. I do not make exaggerated claims or promise magical properties that other people can't replicate but I can guarantee consistency from one blade to the next.
+darrin sanders Agree but all the Carbon steel knives I have were not made in the same batch even the same knife models can be of different batches. If you're a custom maker you're thinking small, these are companies that buy from many sources, different dates, different prices, different companies, I could keep going. I'm very familiar with metals and how they're made for 20 years I was an Non Destructive Inspector, I've tested thousands of samples; different properties and defects can occur in many areas of production. With our technology of today these variations and defects are few but smiths will roll their eyes when I show up but when your job is to inspect others work. Well no one likes to hear anyone tell them they f@@ked it away :) Nothing magic in blade steels they all have benefits and disadvantages, its up to the end user to decide whats right for him.
bad info when it comes to carbon steel...period
Get some Renaissance Wax to experiment with!
What? No PLS or CPC?...lol
;)
alright
No offense but these are mass production junk
They ain't Timmy G