I was just thinking about that Matthew 23 verse the other day about presenting a cup that’s clean on the outside but filthy on the inside and what you said is so accurate: “presenting yourself as clean when your motives are dirty.” I’ve seen that so many times in churches where they care more about their image than they do about the spiritual health within the assembly. They would rather spend a fortune on marketing than take accountability for mistakes they’ve made.
This was absolutely amazing, thank you and it answered a lot of questions. While I am still healing and have sooo much to keep working on though. The pain is still very real. While I did go through some counseling, I really sense this didn’t work with this person. I don’t have insurance so I wasn’t charged. Praise God for that. Sad, very sad how other believers are doing this to each other 😔
Thank you for this wonderful content. I just want to add that children should be under no obligation to protect the egos of the adults around them; so if you have a little child and someone approaches even at church, they shouldn't be taught that they have an obligation to engage. When I've witnessed people trying to engage small children who they don't know and the child is not receptive, sometimes I out loud would say, "That's absolutely right sweetheart, you don't know him.... you don't know her.... you don't know me....". Sometimes the parent would unction the child to say "Hi", when it's apparent that the child is not comfortable doing so. The child is being pressured to drop their boundaries. The child responding as they naturally feel comfortable responding, is a healthy thing. Otherwise we adults are pushing the children to do something that may not come natural to them. Even if the children are naturally very very friendly, it's important that Mommy and Daddy are there and can monitor, and that they be gently taught the significance of mommy and daddy's "Ok". I think it's important for kids to learn who mommy knows well and who daddy knows well, and who they do not. There's a difference between being pleasant like to the bus driver in the morning, and being pleasant to someone who initiates engagement or communication with you on the bus. Similar to instructing kids to hug people they don't know. I have a son in college now but when he was little, I taught him that a stranger is anyone that mommy and daddy do not "personally" know, and anyone who approaches you when mommy and daddy are not around, even if you've seen them before. So even if you're coming into the apartment building from school as an older child, and a neighbor from the building approaches you for conversation, they are a stranger because Mommy and Daddy are not around. You need not speak to or be engaged extensively by them, you need not feel obligated to be friendly. You go where you need to go. Adults know better, they know the dangers in this world, and should be able to understand such a response from a child. Also we as parents have to vet all adults we put around our child. We have to be cautious about the coaches, camp staff, activity instructors.... anyone who would be around our child when we're not there. If we have any weird feelings, we need to trust our gut, which may actually be the Holy Spirit trying to tell us that something isn't right. We parents also cannot be shackled to an idea that it's most important to make the adults around us comfortable. Everyone at church is not necessarily safe.
Amen!! What a great message. Being in church made me feel like a toddler instead of being encouraged to become a mature believer. I had to leave especially due to my traumatic past, gaslighting etc. All those "sayings".....yuck. Lol....And all the boundary crossing. And "woe" if you say no (even in a considerate way) to "requests" and expectations..... I'm coming out of isolation. Or at least I want to. But totally don't know how. Have you got a video re this topic? Thanks for your channel!
Wonderfully presented. God is health, is balance, is understanding who and what is before you and being able to respond with confidence, understanding, assertiveness and wisdom. Thank You. This is excellent.
When Peter approached Jesus saying “this will never happen to you “ Peter’s intentions were sinister in Jesus eyes. Sobering reminder for all of us, thinking we wish the best for others we could be gaslighting.
Hi Simone! I have some videos that explain some different aspects about gaslighting on my channel. Check out the video “What is Gaslighting?” to learn more about this.
So is it safe to say that gaslighting is a campaign? Gaslighting is not an isolated incident, but something done with purpose and intentionality over a period of time?
Great question. I think it is a both/and because some people are not emotionally aware enough to know they are doing it. I would say most know they are "squeezing" people but likely consider them weak or crazy. You are insightful to mention that it happens over a period of time, which is why I brought the similarities with grooming. Ultimately, it is really sad when we make someone feel like they are going crazy and they are the problem and we take no accountability for our faults.
So are you two saying that what Job's friends were doing is gaslighting? I didn't think that what they were doing would be classified as gaslighting. I never thought they were intentionally trying to make Job doubt what is reality or trying to manipulate him in any way.
Gaslighting can be intentional or unintentional. I think the key is that we don’t always realize what we’re putting back on another person that adds to their shame, pain, or trauma. There are times as a marriage and family therapist that I have had to take inventory when thinking about how much of a persons pain is their fault.
I was just thinking about that Matthew 23 verse the other day about presenting a cup that’s clean on the outside but filthy on the inside and what you said is so accurate: “presenting yourself as clean when your motives are dirty.” I’ve seen that so many times in churches where they care more about their image than they do about the spiritual health within the assembly. They would rather spend a fortune on marketing than take accountability for mistakes they’ve made.
Kyle and Dr. Foluso, this conversation is The Smile we need in our “child labor” I mean The Birth of The New Spiritual Self. Thank you.
"Presenting yourself as clean when your motives are dirty!" Wow! That kicked me in the knees of my heart! That's what I DON'T want to do!
That was a good word!
I stopped the video to write that down myself. This whole video was amazing. I loved it!
Thank you for having me on your channel, Kyle! I really appreciated the opportunity to collaborate with and learn from you about this topic!
This was absolutely amazing, thank you and it answered a lot of questions. While I am still healing and have sooo much to keep working on though. The pain is still very real. While I did go through some counseling, I really sense this didn’t work with this person. I don’t have insurance so I wasn’t charged. Praise God for that. Sad, very sad how other believers are doing this to each other 😔
We sometimes do better when we're not talking. Great advice.
Thank you for this wonderful content.
I just want to add that children should be under no obligation to protect the egos of the adults around them; so if you have a little child and someone approaches even at church, they shouldn't be taught that they have an obligation to engage. When I've witnessed people trying to engage small children who they don't know and the child is not receptive, sometimes I out loud would say, "That's absolutely right sweetheart, you don't know him.... you don't know her.... you don't know me....".
Sometimes the parent would unction the child to say "Hi", when it's apparent that the child is not comfortable doing so. The child is being pressured to drop their boundaries.
The child responding as they naturally feel comfortable responding, is a healthy thing. Otherwise we adults are pushing the children to do something that may not come natural to them. Even if the children are naturally very very friendly, it's important that Mommy and Daddy are there and can monitor, and that they be gently taught the significance of mommy and daddy's "Ok". I think it's important for kids to learn who mommy knows well and who daddy knows well, and who they do not.
There's a difference between being pleasant like to the bus driver in the morning, and being pleasant to someone who initiates engagement or communication with you on the bus. Similar to instructing kids to hug people they don't know.
I have a son in college now but when he was little, I taught him that a stranger is anyone that mommy and daddy do not "personally" know, and anyone who approaches you when mommy and daddy are not around, even if you've seen them before.
So even if you're coming into the apartment building from school as an older child, and a neighbor from the building approaches you for conversation, they are a stranger because Mommy and Daddy are not around. You need not speak to or be engaged extensively by them, you need not feel obligated to be friendly. You go where you need to go.
Adults know better, they know the dangers in this world, and should be able to understand such a response from a child.
Also we as parents have to vet all adults we put around our child. We have to be cautious about the coaches, camp staff, activity instructors.... anyone who would be around our child when we're not there.
If we have any weird feelings, we need to trust our gut, which may actually be the Holy Spirit trying to tell us that something isn't right.
We parents also cannot be shackled to an idea that it's most important to make the adults around us comfortable. Everyone at church is not necessarily safe.
Amen!! What a great message. Being in church made me feel like a toddler instead of being encouraged to become a mature believer. I had to leave especially due to my traumatic past, gaslighting etc. All those "sayings".....yuck. Lol....And all the boundary crossing. And "woe" if you say no (even in a considerate way) to "requests" and expectations..... I'm coming out of isolation. Or at least I want to. But totally don't know how. Have you got a video re this topic? Thanks for your channel!
You might enjoy the livestream we did a recently with Dr. Foluso and Mark DeJesus on Spiritual Abuse. Look under livestreams and you'll find it.
Wonderfully presented.
God is health, is balance, is understanding who and what is before you and being able to respond with confidence, understanding, assertiveness and wisdom. Thank You. This is excellent.
This helped me so much. It explains so much. Thank you!!!
Thanks for this.
Thanks!
Wow Roxanne!!! Thank you
You're so welcome! This is what I am praying about in my fellowship! This is information that you can't put a price on!
When Peter approached Jesus saying “this will never happen to you “ Peter’s intentions were sinister in Jesus eyes. Sobering reminder for all of us, thinking we wish the best for others we could be gaslighting.
Have you noticed that people who have been deeply hurt by gaslighting tend to attract people who gaslight? How do you break the cycle?
Great observation! I would visit skill set counseling where she has in-depth teaching on the issue
Hi Simone! I have some videos that explain some different aspects about gaslighting on my channel. Check out the video “What is Gaslighting?” to learn more about this.
So is it safe to say that gaslighting is a campaign? Gaslighting is not an isolated incident, but something done with purpose and intentionality over a period of time?
Great question. I think it is a both/and because some people are not emotionally aware enough to know they are doing it. I would say most know they are "squeezing" people but likely consider them weak or crazy. You are insightful to mention that it happens over a period of time, which is why I brought the similarities with grooming. Ultimately, it is really sad when we make someone feel like they are going crazy and they are the problem and we take no accountability for our faults.
There are still churches that implement the shepherding movement.
So are you two saying that what Job's friends were doing is gaslighting? I didn't think that what they were doing would be classified as gaslighting. I never thought they were intentionally trying to make Job doubt what is reality or trying to manipulate him in any way.
Gaslighting can be intentional or unintentional. I think the key is that we don’t always realize what we’re putting back on another person that adds to their shame, pain, or trauma. There are times as a marriage and family therapist that I have had to take inventory when thinking about how much of a persons pain is their fault.