Gotta love how every time hunters have interesting and diverse build options, hunter items get nerfed into the ground and it all goes back to one build again
I watched this channel for a long time never commented until now just to say your awesome Duke keep making the vids that bring the smite info like no body else does.Thank you again
I know you mainly focus on Conquest, but I do have to say that in modes like Arena, Assault or Clash, Leather Cowl is a really good option because you're pretty much always near allies
That's true! Then again, farm is faster there so you get to Ornate Arrow quicker, which just might be the better option in general atm. Excluding modes that have high gold, but low XP spooling
I play mostly Arena. I use Leather Cowl with almost all Hunters and most Assassins, particularly AA Assassins, since Jungle items are locked. Base Arrow is actually really hard to use in Arena because unless you have a coordinated team you will have to fight for last hit and if you have a Kuku on your team don't buy Arrow you will never get last hit. I don't like Death's Toll but think Death's Temper is amazing in Arena since you can proc it so easy.
Even if people is not really doing so, I feel finishing the build changing boots for q.sais is probably the best option. You still kill any squeeze target with 3/4 aa and the sais make so much difference when focusing a tank. Right now with so little % damage in builds and tank builds with quite a lot of hp, I think it's an important choice. Sais numbers were always crazy and really rewarding, but people seemed to forget, and right now I can easily get builds with even supports with 6 important psssives, 250 of each prot and 4000 HP and be just immortal cause there is no dps to deal with that, I just need to save my carries with my own pressence and that's it
Yeah I agree. On some hunters, getting an extra crit item can be worth it to reach 100%, but especially if the tanks build beefy, Qins is huge. That said, most games don't go that long.
So I guess two things to add to this: 1. Build is only popular right now due to solo/tank builds changing as they do not have massive health pools anymore or running HP items so Quins-build path doesn't provide that great bonus damage anymore. 2. This build only works because of Deathbringer. Deathbringer passive applies after Spectral passive, so you have your auto damage then you crit which spectral negates 40% of it then Deathbringer applies giving an added 30% to that new number. If you and the enemy solo are same level and development in build path, you hit for nothing until you have Deathbringer online.
I think lether's cow biggest downside is that you dont get mp5..And you have to get more potions and if you were to die early you can set yourself even more behind because you gonna have to buy pots again just so you can sustain the lane.
Dont worry, there is at least one patch in each season where mage adcs get buffed with a sledgehammer, become meta and all of a sudden you have to ban freya every game unless you wanna lose :)
@@thedarklycanyt5928 yeah thats the issue with making a show from the comic or novel happened with game of thrones too but it's still amazing as long as they animate the important bits and get the story across im fine with it.
And also since a benevolence start on supports is kind of becoming a thing you gain more gold in lane before your support leaves the lane. On top of gilded arrow it’s just a lot more gold gain in general.
Some testing I did for Diamond Arrow vs Death's Temper on Sol: Testing with: Magi Shoes, Pythagorem's Piece, Telkhines Ring, Typhon's Fang, Rod of Tahuti, upgrade starter (Diamond Arrow or Death's Temper) AA Damage Results (With Telkhines damage added), Against level 20 Neith: -- DT (0 stacks): 306, 359 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 300 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 380 DT (0 stacks)(With Red): 334, 392 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 327 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 415 -- DT (5 stacks): 343, 405 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 337 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 429 DT (5 stacks)(With Red): 374, 442 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 367 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 460 -- DT (10 stacks): 380, 451 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 362 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 468 DT (10 stacks)(With Red): 415, 492 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 409 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 522 -- Arrow: 369, 440 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 373 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 478 Arrow (With Red): 401, 478 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 399 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 509 -- So, yeah, Diamond Arrow is pretty good on Sol, to the point Death's Temper only can generally outdps it with 10 stacks + red buff. Due to the interaction with her passive (since it's bonus % AA damage not bonus AA scaling), the basic attack damage is pretty good despite the lack of power you get for telkhines, the overall dps is good regardless. -- For the record, i'd only recommend Diamond Arrow on Sol and Olorun (though the lack of power hurts his passive crit chance). For Chronos, yes it's nice for when your stim is down, but his AA steroid has too much scaling to go this item, if you go Arrow on Chronos i'd sell it late for Hecate or Hastened, but I'd probably opt for Gem of Focus or Pendulum instead (assuming im not Mid Chronos where I might just go Bumba's Hammer). On Freya, similar case, her steroid has too much scaling, and Diamond Arrow is near useless when her stim is down cause she's melee without ranged stim, so i'd probably go Sands on her (keeping it and getting Pendulum or selling it late), the other option I heard is manakins (probably into hidden blade late) on her but you'd probably need double chalice and it sounds like a bit of a meme tbh.
It's worth pointing out that the 80 flat basic attack boost that Diamond Arrow provides is worth a whopping _400+ power_ on every magical carry, due to how their scaling works. Even if that 80dmg was the only stat the item provided, it would still be worth considering. Even Freya. Death's Temper is similar, but relies on already having high power in order to make it worthwhile. It's also much less useful on Freya, as her damage is technically ability procs and not multiplied by DT, while the Arrow doesn't care.
@@dragontyron That "400 magical power" value is only if we factor regular base mage auto scaling (20%) and not say, the 55% (35% stim +20% base) that Chronos gets or the 60% (25% stim +15% stim +20% base) that Freya gets. And then you add in Telkhines lost efficiency on top of that. And the extra basic attack damage doesen't benefit AA / AA Stim power scaling or Telkhines procs, so it's quite a bit less than 400 magical power on those 2 gods, hence why I didn't recommend it on them. Sol is different cause her passive stim directly amplifies the combined basic attack damage (base AA damage + Diamond Arrow's 80+ base 20% mage AA scaling), while Olorun's crit is similar (base AA damage + Diamond Arrow's 80 + base 25% AA scaling), though his passive crit chance does rely on power.
@@kriegaone3658 That's true, the lack of power to feed into ability scaling does hurt it in comparison to other items, and I haven't done the actual math for how much effective dmg you'd be getting. Still though, it's a ludicrous number, and the attack speed bonus is something all mage adc's appreciate, so it breaks even with the one from Temper.
ive been getting deaths temper. 35 percent more basic attack damage, and its easy to keep stacked. deaths temper>AS boots>transcendence>asi>rage>bloodforge/dominance easy to get 600+ crits on squishy people. while still destroying tanks because you'll be at near max attack speed. i pretty much never build bloodforge, though i know it would be pretty good.
if someone catches you out in the jungle, you're kinda out of luck on that one, though. That's an ok build for high-power hunters (Medusa, Neith), but I wouldn't go for it on gods that prefer unconditional AS+Crit.
I think that the right option to fix hunters may be to buff the other starter items slightly to put it on the same level as ornate. So crit isn't the only option but still isn't thrown out. Maybe some a starter that focused on pen like it ramps up attack speed with high pen. Something to not kill off crit cause crit ideally should be something built to counter the squishy characters and not kill the tanks. Its not very fun having 1 build and forcing the other team to play with 1 item but just having a decent pen starter could be good enough to hold its own. Maybe the pen starter idea might be too good and break hunters but hunters should usually carry late and maybe mid game.
i’m kinda sad to know there’s a very good chance bumbas will get nerfed. It’s gonna directly nerf a few gods into the ground (loki), and it just won’t feel very right
Honestly id prefer asi now over deaths embrace and ever would I ever build deaths toll, id go for temper for the 35% basic attack damage boost. But arrow im glad im not only one I buy it
Gilded also gets points for being the Coolest Starter™ so playing adc feels slightly less boring double bonus: mage basic attack scaling + flat Basic Attack Damage Buff is such a cool dynamic and I like it a lot
I’ve been using guilded arrow since season 8 started. I love that it got buffed and it’s so much better now... but I fear it’s gonna get nerfed to the point of being not useable
Yeah. I was like its old hunters blessing that also makes you get more gold and also the upgrade felt good because if you are fighting for fg you get stronger during the stale mate
I know Ornate gives amazing stats, but I cant help but think Hunters Cowl is the better option overall. By the time you upgrade your starter you're going to be sticking with the team so you'll always have that increased AS and the MS is great if team fights go badly. Sure you lose out on crit, but you need to save 2k for that. Which you could put 1500 towards movement pot, the remaining 500 and sale of your boots towards one of the other crit shurikens. Plus 44% lifesteal on crits is ridiculous. I could be wrong though, but that's part of the fun!
Cowl is the safer pick and nice for newbies, but it's hard to argue against "ooga booga maximum dps" for hunters. Especially since the Arrows give you bonus gold that funds your crit addiction.
They should have done something where an upgrade marked gods and you get a bonus, kinda like kali passive for hunters, itd mark them all if you were around long enough so not quite but a bonus for killing or maybe just attacking them giving lifesteal or pen (freeing an item slot)
I would use Gilded Arrow with Olorun and I would always be Top Gold and since I was chasing gold. I'm taking camps on both side of the Maps and I would always end up being Top Gold and Level 20 before end game Deaths Temper is great with Sol cause she has her own sustain ability and same with Chronos with his 1 ability that heals over time
I just had an idea. I haven't tested this, but if Gilded Arrow gives it's Gold and Attack Speed when you kill a Marked Enemy, in theory; couldn't the Support also build Gilded Arrow and let the ADC get double mark bonuses? Because both of the Gilded Arrows would be setting up the Marks.
I've got an argument for diamond arrow. I think it is insanely good. At least the times I have used it. I would normally put it on Heimdallr. My build would be diamond arrow, wind demon, fail not, shadowsteel shuriken, dominance and devourers gauntlet. (Not in the order but you get the point.) Wind demon and diamond arrow would have me at almost capped attack speed quite consistently. I fights, I either killed a minion or camp quickly for at least 1 stack and went of into the fight. Or if fought in a lane the minions came to me. Even with no stacks wind demon was enough to sometimes 1v2. I think Diamond arrow is very good. (Granted this was before fail not and wind demon nerfs.) Edit: Also I forgot to add, in a team fight usually an enemy will die pretty quickly so once they do you get max stacks.
You're trolling by building Diamond Arrow over Ornate, especially in a crit build. Plus Fail-Not is bad now, hunters do not need to build antiheal (especially when going crit).
@@kriegaone3658 Clearly you didn't read my comment about going fail not I specifically said before it was nerfed. Read thoroughly please. Also just straight up saying I'm trolling is quite the assumption. Instead of thinking about how it can work you instantly assume I am intentionally trying to be bad at the game. Also shadowsteel was an optional thing for this, in fact the entire build is. This just seemed to work often. Instead of shadowsteel I usually went the poison one (forgot the name) or some other items. I was mostly just testing things out and it seemed to work really well. Diamond arrow will not always work in every situation, but at least for me it seemed to work. Also: When I said you said I was intentionally being bad. What I meant is that is the definition I have of trolling. If that isn't what you meant I take it back.
That's a tank-shredder and tower killing build, which actually works fine if that's all you're doing. But if another hunter rolls up on you with the higher-damage crit build, they'll probably outbox you unless you outplay them. It'll only take 'em two basics to kill you, whereas you might need three or four.
@@dragontyron That's actually pretty accurate to what I was experiencing. I haven't built this in a while but I remember shredding tanks and doing like 300 dmg every auto to a tower. Against squishes I was doing like 800 dmg per auto (no defense items) I would get out boxed if I had no stacks as you mentioned. My attack speed was slow without stacks. I remember I 1v3d once because I killed one character and got max stacks, ulted another and then outboxed the last guy while one was in my ult. Anyways I got off track, but thanks for the constructive criticism!
@Laurenz Roy élève well I havent tested it on olorun or chronos but you can get ornate on freya. No crit of course but the attack speed and gold gain is nice.
No, Ornate's crit doesen't work on any magical, including Olorun. If you run arrow on a mage adc you run it on Sol and Olorun and upgrade it late to Diamond Arrow.
I've been trying to make unique builds for hunters, but I think I'll give up on that. Save for neith, Skadi and ullur all hunters can pretty much build the same.
It doesn't really feel worth it atm until the starters get significant changes. Bit unfortunate, both ability-based hunters and magical carries don't get much room, at least not in duo lane.
On Ullr you can go bumba's Hammer (or bluestone perhaps). Trans, Ninja, Crusher, Titan's, Heartseeker, Bumba's Hammer, boots for Obow for a Bumba's Ullr build. On Skadi just go power pen, Neith you can build like a normal adc (Ornate Devo's Crit) or you can go bluestone / cowl with a hybrid build or a cowl dominance AA build (though if im going AA Neith, I may as well just go the Ornate Crit build atm instead).
Most of the time yep.. i tend to just say fuck it and try something else however.. i also tend to lag behind on the meta because i sometimes take breaks of about a month so after i return everything has changed again so i use a build that’s either outdated or still decent just not the meta.. i noticed that alot yesterday.. i decided to play a match of ranked with a friend because he was trying to get his rank up and i was the only person low enough to help him (i tend to not care as much about ranked though it’s fun with a friend i don’t like randoms because they always either are completely silent or are so fucking toxic that they decide to mute you without you doing anything..) so we had a nu wa that was the silent.. wich was fine cuz she wasn’t terrible.. then we had me who has no clue about the current meta apart from a few things. So i just build what seems strong. (Now note that this is the beginning elo so no high skill or anything) so i end up getting dunked by the enemy agni. And at this point i go aight whatever better luck next time. But we have this susano whom in the lobby already was like OKAY I’M GONNA MUTE TWO OF OUR TEAM.. like my friend was actually being a wierdo but all i did was say hi. And he still mutes me.. now the other person our adc was a girl and they were most likely in a party together this will matter later. Now the toxic guy was our jungler and of course he is the 3rd type aswell wich is the kind of person who thinks he is super good.. (newsflash he wasn’t so of course he cusses at me for having been sacked by the enemy agni and jungle combo with 0 help from him at all because well apparently saying hi is trolling nowdays) so he basically starts flaming me OH LOOK AT YOUR BUILD BEH BEH BEH all the while i am muted like suck a cock mr susano a god who hasn’t had a build change for the last few seasons i bet you don’t know how to build in the current meta on anything other than assasins wich are the easiest to build since it’s mainly just pen and high power unless you are a basic based assassin) and then he has the audacity to later on decide to start flaming me even more because i’ve ended up so far behind i can’t do jack shit.. so he goes in 1v5 several times when people are either dead or running away cuz they are nearly dead.. of course i’ll be grabbing farm instead of going in 2v5 like who do you think i am ? A fucking kamikaze pilot? Then he dies and ends up blaming it on me because my level 12 i need farm ass didn’t come suicide with him 🤦🏻♀️ this was my ted talk and a little bit of a rant.. and also the reason i hate randoms.. because they always act like god no matter what when i’m just there trying to help my friend
@@litchtheshinigami8936 yeah Man ranked is pretty bad rn I've decided to if I'm going to play rank only in duoq cause if I don't its just casual with bans and a longer q time, I've been enjoying casual more than I thought
@@barushjimenez9171 ranked joust is okay i guess.. but conquest is just horseshit.. it was better a few seasons ago.. you still had some idiots in between like in the first ever ranked conq i ever did.. (i was on duo lane and i was doing fine winning my lane everything.. then our skadi solo who was bummed out they didn't get their favorite role decided to just ruin the match for everyone started stealing buffs where they could and such.. ended up having to f6 because of that one clown.. the match after that we won though and was fine overall)
Hunters have always had it the worst with this. Because the whole hunter role is basically "max out your dps as efficiently as possible" it always revolves around the mathematically-most-effective dps build. Other roles (especially tanks!) tend to have a lot more diversity.
@@zkdm9125 devos power spike and curve sucks and blood forge passive with the cloak is better and gives you more life steal the majority of the game. You have to be more than halfway through devos to reach the amount of lifesteal you would get from bloodforge with the the cloak. Your building crit you don’t need devos
@@rip_jericho believe me there a lot of things I don't understand or get confused by... But I'll guess I'll just keep watching more videos until I can understand.
@@rip_jericho thanks for the tip, I have experienced really mean and rude teammates when playing... I didn't know you could mute them, I'll try that next time.
Xbal feels almost unplayable without toll you have to back SO often. Like mana issues all game. You have to forgo devo for trans and now you have no sustain.
I mean you don't always have to go trans. He's such a flexible god from a build perspective that you can easily go any two items and then asi and still be fine because he just hits that hard.
Sorry, i meant to say that he just FEELS bad to play. I dont really think he needs buffs, just some QOL for his mana upkeep like release freya having mana restoring melees
Realistic answer? You don't. They're hardly worth playing for the most part, unfortunately. If you want to, Gilded, Shoes of the Magi, Bancrofts and then some variation of some power items like Rod of Tahuti and some Ring items like Telkhines is your best bet. Exact combination varies since some use Hastened, some Demonic and some Obsidian.
Thanks for all that you have done and continue to provide for the smite community. You are appreciated.
Everyone like that
Thank you. I really needed to hear that.
@@TheRonaldNess anytime
@@Leoj305 That... wasn't DukeSloth who replied to you. Lol
@@Claus.7 Lol. I know. I was humoring the joke, but thanks for clarification.
Gotta love how every time hunters have interesting and diverse build options, hunter items get nerfed into the ground and it all goes back to one build again
Imagine it for mage adc 🤣
I watched this channel for a long time never commented until now just to say your awesome Duke keep making the vids that bring the smite info like no body else does.Thank you again
I know you mainly focus on Conquest, but I do have to say that in modes like Arena, Assault or Clash, Leather Cowl is a really good option because you're pretty much always near allies
That's true! Then again, farm is faster there so you get to Ornate Arrow quicker, which just might be the better option in general atm. Excluding modes that have high gold, but low XP spooling
In Arena starter doesen't matter, just go Ornate late or Animosity for hunters.
@@DukeSloth would definitely be harder to get those last hits for those gold bonuses in arena. 😅
I play mostly Arena. I use Leather Cowl with almost all Hunters and most Assassins, particularly AA Assassins, since Jungle items are locked. Base Arrow is actually really hard to use in Arena because unless you have a coordinated team you will have to fight for last hit and if you have a Kuku on your team don't buy Arrow you will never get last hit. I don't like Death's Toll but think Death's Temper is amazing in Arena since you can proc it so easy.
@@jettblade personally also love a cheeky hunter cowl mercury
Even if people is not really doing so, I feel finishing the build changing boots for q.sais is probably the best option. You still kill any squeeze target with 3/4 aa and the sais make so much difference when focusing a tank. Right now with so little % damage in builds and tank builds with quite a lot of hp, I think it's an important choice.
Sais numbers were always crazy and really rewarding, but people seemed to forget, and right now I can easily get builds with even supports with 6 important psssives, 250 of each prot and 4000 HP and be just immortal cause there is no dps to deal with that, I just need to save my carries with my own pressence and that's it
Yeah I agree. On some hunters, getting an extra crit item can be worth it to reach 100%, but especially if the tanks build beefy, Qins is huge. That said, most games don't go that long.
Crit go boom
I knew the Arrow tree was going to get the recognition it deserved eventually.
So I guess two things to add to this:
1. Build is only popular right now due to solo/tank builds changing as they do not have massive health pools anymore or running HP items so Quins-build path doesn't provide that great bonus damage anymore.
2. This build only works because of Deathbringer. Deathbringer passive applies after Spectral passive, so you have your auto damage then you crit which spectral negates 40% of it then Deathbringer applies giving an added 30% to that new number. If you and the enemy solo are same level and development in build path, you hit for nothing until you have Deathbringer online.
I think lether's cow biggest downside is that you dont get mp5..And you have to get more potions and if you were to die early you can set yourself even more behind because you gonna have to buy pots again just so you can sustain the lane.
cowl allows you to go into trans though
MAKE MAGE ADCs GREAT AGAIN
chronos is doing just fine
@@rapidtreal4612 Nah he's right. They need some help.
Dont worry, there is at least one patch in each season where mage adcs get buffed with a sledgehammer, become meta and all of a sudden you have to ban freya every game unless you wanna lose :)
@@robertlujan2865 i wont complain go ahead buff my time boi
@@rapidtreal4612 lol
Bluestone Chiron is SUPER GOOD. Everyone go try this now
I have been using blue stone on most ability based characters ☺️
A great thing about working night shifts is getting to the uploads early. 😂
Ornate arrow was the play even before the buff. You just didn't saw that
That Anhur skin looks like Battle Beast from Invincible lol
Can't wait till season 2 the finale of season 1 was amazing.
Honestly enjoyed season 1 but damn did they skip a ton of stuff... and they showed things that didn't exactly happen in the comics
@@thedarklycanyt5928 yeah thats the issue with making a show from the comic or novel happened with game of thrones too but it's still amazing as long as they animate the important bits and get the story across im fine with it.
I watched the video and thought exactly this to myself, mental someone commented that, show was soo good
Sucks that Battle Beast dies and gets skinned
And also since a benevolence start on supports is kind of becoming a thing you gain more gold in lane before your support leaves the lane. On top of gilded arrow it’s just a lot more gold gain in general.
Some testing I did for Diamond Arrow vs Death's Temper on Sol:
Testing with: Magi Shoes, Pythagorem's Piece, Telkhines Ring, Typhon's Fang, Rod of Tahuti, upgrade starter (Diamond Arrow or Death's Temper)
AA Damage Results (With Telkhines damage added), Against level 20 Neith:
--
DT (0 stacks): 306, 359 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 300 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 380
DT (0 stacks)(With Red): 334, 392 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 327 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 415
--
DT (5 stacks): 343, 405 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 337 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 429
DT (5 stacks)(With Red): 374, 442 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 367 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 460
--
DT (10 stacks): 380, 451 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 362 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 468
DT (10 stacks)(With Red): 415, 492 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 409 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 522
--
Arrow: 369, 440 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 373 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 478
Arrow (With Red): 401, 478 (Tahuti proc) > Trading boots for Demonic (No stacks): 399 > (Demonic + Tahuti proc): 509
--
So, yeah, Diamond Arrow is pretty good on Sol, to the point Death's Temper only can generally outdps it with 10 stacks + red buff. Due to the interaction with her passive (since it's bonus % AA damage not bonus AA scaling), the basic attack damage is pretty good despite the lack of power you get for telkhines, the overall dps is good regardless.
--
For the record, i'd only recommend Diamond Arrow on Sol and Olorun (though the lack of power hurts his passive crit chance). For Chronos, yes it's nice for when your stim is down, but his AA steroid has too much scaling to go this item, if you go Arrow on Chronos i'd sell it late for Hecate or Hastened, but I'd probably opt for Gem of Focus or Pendulum instead (assuming im not Mid Chronos where I might just go Bumba's Hammer). On Freya, similar case, her steroid has too much scaling, and Diamond Arrow is near useless when her stim is down cause she's melee without ranged stim, so i'd probably go Sands on her (keeping it and getting Pendulum or selling it late), the other option I heard is manakins (probably into hidden blade late) on her but you'd probably need double chalice and it sounds like a bit of a meme tbh.
It's worth pointing out that the 80 flat basic attack boost that Diamond Arrow provides is worth a whopping _400+ power_ on every magical carry, due to how their scaling works. Even if that 80dmg was the only stat the item provided, it would still be worth considering. Even Freya.
Death's Temper is similar, but relies on already having high power in order to make it worthwhile. It's also much less useful on Freya, as her damage is technically ability procs and not multiplied by DT, while the Arrow doesn't care.
@@dragontyron That "400 magical power" value is only if we factor regular base mage auto scaling (20%) and not say, the 55% (35% stim +20% base) that Chronos gets or the 60% (25% stim +15% stim +20% base) that Freya gets. And then you add in Telkhines lost efficiency on top of that. And the extra basic attack damage doesen't benefit AA / AA Stim power scaling or Telkhines procs, so it's quite a bit less than 400 magical power on those 2 gods, hence why I didn't recommend it on them. Sol is different cause her passive stim directly amplifies the combined basic attack damage (base AA damage + Diamond Arrow's 80+ base 20% mage AA scaling), while Olorun's crit is similar (base AA damage + Diamond Arrow's 80 + base 25% AA scaling), though his passive crit chance does rely on power.
@@kriegaone3658 That's true, the lack of power to feed into ability scaling does hurt it in comparison to other items, and I haven't done the actual math for how much effective dmg you'd be getting. Still though, it's a ludicrous number, and the attack speed bonus is something all mage adc's appreciate, so it breaks even with the one from Temper.
Keep it up man I find your videos very informative
That Anhur could died a lot less if he used beads lmao
ive been getting deaths temper. 35 percent more basic attack damage, and its easy to keep stacked.
deaths temper>AS boots>transcendence>asi>rage>bloodforge/dominance
easy to get 600+ crits on squishy people. while still destroying tanks because you'll be at near max attack speed. i pretty much never build bloodforge, though i know it would be pretty good.
if someone catches you out in the jungle, you're kinda out of luck on that one, though. That's an ok build for high-power hunters (Medusa, Neith), but I wouldn't go for it on gods that prefer unconditional AS+Crit.
I think that the right option to fix hunters may be to buff the other starter items slightly to put it on the same level as ornate. So crit isn't the only option but still isn't thrown out. Maybe some a starter that focused on pen like it ramps up attack speed with high pen. Something to not kill off crit cause crit ideally should be something built to counter the squishy characters and not kill the tanks. Its not very fun having 1 build and forcing the other team to play with 1 item but just having a decent pen starter could be good enough to hold its own. Maybe the pen starter idea might be too good and break hunters but hunters should usually carry late and maybe mid game.
They say they nerfed Death's Embrace, but it's still insanely busted like Bumba's Hammer and other starters
hunters in general are busted
Hunter Master Race as Hi-Rez dictates
So you like smite?
i’m kinda sad to know there’s a very good chance bumbas will get nerfed. It’s gonna directly nerf a few gods into the ground (loki), and it just won’t feel very right
Honestly id prefer asi now over deaths embrace and ever would I ever build deaths toll, id go for temper for the 35% basic attack damage boost. But arrow im glad im not only one I buy it
Gilded also gets points for being the Coolest Starter™ so playing adc feels slightly less boring
double bonus: mage basic attack scaling + flat Basic Attack Damage Buff is such a cool dynamic and I like it a lot
Oh, so *that's* what you're staring at in your garage
I’ve been using guilded arrow since season 8 started. I love that it got buffed and it’s so much better now... but I fear it’s gonna get nerfed to the point of being not useable
Yeah. I was like its old hunters blessing that also makes you get more gold and also the upgrade felt good because if you are fighting for fg you get stronger during the stale mate
enjoy it while it lasts?
I know Ornate gives amazing stats, but I cant help but think Hunters Cowl is the better option overall. By the time you upgrade your starter you're going to be sticking with the team so you'll always have that increased AS and the MS is great if team fights go badly.
Sure you lose out on crit, but you need to save 2k for that. Which you could put 1500 towards movement pot, the remaining 500 and sale of your boots towards one of the other crit shurikens. Plus 44% lifesteal on crits is ridiculous.
I could be wrong though, but that's part of the fun!
Cowl is the safer pick and nice for newbies, but it's hard to argue against "ooga booga maximum dps" for hunters. Especially since the Arrows give you bonus gold that funds your crit addiction.
They should have done something where an upgrade marked gods and you get a bonus, kinda like kali passive for hunters, itd mark them all if you were around long enough so not quite but a bonus for killing or maybe just attacking them giving lifesteal or pen (freeing an item slot)
Thanks Duke!
Now people have noticed my arrow... let's hop they don't nerf it because erlang arrow solo is fun
In a mode like arena where you can’t really stack, what do you replace devos gloves with?
I would use Gilded Arrow with Olorun and I would always be Top Gold and since I was chasing gold. I'm taking camps on both side of the Maps and I would always end up being Top Gold and Level 20 before end game
Deaths Temper is great with Sol cause she has her own sustain ability and same with Chronos with his 1 ability that heals over time
I just had an idea. I haven't tested this, but if Gilded Arrow gives it's Gold and Attack Speed when you kill a Marked Enemy, in theory; couldn't the Support also build Gilded Arrow and let the ADC get double mark bonuses? Because both of the Gilded Arrows would be setting up the Marks.
I've got an argument for diamond arrow. I think it is insanely good. At least the times I have used it. I would normally put it on Heimdallr. My build would be diamond arrow, wind demon, fail not, shadowsteel shuriken, dominance and devourers gauntlet. (Not in the order but you get the point.) Wind demon and diamond arrow would have me at almost capped attack speed quite consistently. I fights, I either killed a minion or camp quickly for at least 1 stack and went of into the fight. Or if fought in a lane the minions came to me. Even with no stacks wind demon was enough to sometimes 1v2. I think Diamond arrow is very good. (Granted this was before fail not and wind demon nerfs.)
Edit: Also I forgot to add, in a team fight usually an enemy will die pretty quickly so once they do you get max stacks.
You're trolling by building Diamond Arrow over Ornate, especially in a crit build. Plus Fail-Not is bad now, hunters do not need to build antiheal (especially when going crit).
@@kriegaone3658 Clearly you didn't read my comment about going fail not I specifically said before it was nerfed. Read thoroughly please. Also just straight up saying I'm trolling is quite the assumption. Instead of thinking about how it can work you instantly assume I am intentionally trying to be bad at the game. Also shadowsteel was an optional thing for this, in fact the entire build is. This just seemed to work often. Instead of shadowsteel I usually went the poison one (forgot the name) or some other items. I was mostly just testing things out and it seemed to work really well. Diamond arrow will not always work in every situation, but at least for me it seemed to work.
Also: When I said you said I was intentionally being bad. What I meant is that is the definition I have of trolling. If that isn't what you meant I take it back.
That's a tank-shredder and tower killing build, which actually works fine if that's all you're doing. But if another hunter rolls up on you with the higher-damage crit build, they'll probably outbox you unless you outplay them. It'll only take 'em two basics to kill you, whereas you might need three or four.
@@dragontyron That's actually pretty accurate to what I was experiencing. I haven't built this in a while but I remember shredding tanks and doing like 300 dmg every auto to a tower. Against squishes I was doing like 800 dmg per auto (no defense items) I would get out boxed if I had no stacks as you mentioned. My attack speed was slow without stacks. I remember I 1v3d once because I killed one character and got max stacks, ulted another and then outboxed the last guy while one was in my ult. Anyways I got off track, but thanks for the constructive criticism!
Does the crit passive of ornate arrow work on magical adcs, what happens in the case of Olorun?
@Laurenz Roy élève well I havent tested it on olorun or chronos but you can get ornate on freya. No crit of course but the attack speed and gold gain is nice.
@@backwardsnemo224 Ornate is dogshit on Freya
No, Ornate's crit doesen't work on any magical, including Olorun. If you run arrow on a mage adc you run it on Sol and Olorun and upgrade it late to Diamond Arrow.
it does not
That's mad I've been running that build or something very similar for a while now
I've been trying to make unique builds for hunters, but I think I'll give up on that. Save for neith, Skadi and ullur all hunters can pretty much build the same.
It doesn't really feel worth it atm until the starters get significant changes. Bit unfortunate, both ability-based hunters and magical carries don't get much room, at least not in duo lane.
On Ullr you can go bumba's Hammer (or bluestone perhaps). Trans, Ninja, Crusher, Titan's, Heartseeker, Bumba's Hammer, boots for Obow for a Bumba's Ullr build. On Skadi just go power pen, Neith you can build like a normal adc (Ornate Devo's Crit) or you can go bluestone / cowl with a hybrid build or a cowl dominance AA build (though if im going AA Neith, I may as well just go the Ornate Crit build atm instead).
Hey duke, whats the name of your background music?
There's one thing I hate, we have a lot of items but at the end we build the same things xd
Most of the time yep.. i tend to just say fuck it and try something else however.. i also tend to lag behind on the meta because i sometimes take breaks of about a month so after i return everything has changed again so i use a build that’s either outdated or still decent just not the meta.. i noticed that alot yesterday.. i decided to play a match of ranked with a friend because he was trying to get his rank up and i was the only person low enough to help him (i tend to not care as much about ranked though it’s fun with a friend i don’t like randoms because they always either are completely silent or are so fucking toxic that they decide to mute you without you doing anything..) so we had a nu wa that was the silent.. wich was fine cuz she wasn’t terrible.. then we had me who has no clue about the current meta apart from a few things. So i just build what seems strong. (Now note that this is the beginning elo so no high skill or anything) so i end up getting dunked by the enemy agni. And at this point i go aight whatever better luck next time. But we have this susano whom in the lobby already was like OKAY I’M GONNA MUTE TWO OF OUR TEAM.. like my friend was actually being a wierdo but all i did was say hi. And he still mutes me.. now the other person our adc was a girl and they were most likely in a party together this will matter later. Now the toxic guy was our jungler and of course he is the 3rd type aswell wich is the kind of person who thinks he is super good.. (newsflash he wasn’t so of course he cusses at me for having been sacked by the enemy agni and jungle combo with 0 help from him at all because well apparently saying hi is trolling nowdays) so he basically starts flaming me OH LOOK AT YOUR BUILD BEH BEH BEH all the while i am muted like suck a cock mr susano a god who hasn’t had a build change for the last few seasons i bet you don’t know how to build in the current meta on anything other than assasins wich are the easiest to build since it’s mainly just pen and high power unless you are a basic based assassin) and then he has the audacity to later on decide to start flaming me even more because i’ve ended up so far behind i can’t do jack shit.. so he goes in 1v5 several times when people are either dead or running away cuz they are nearly dead.. of course i’ll be grabbing farm instead of going in 2v5 like who do you think i am ? A fucking kamikaze pilot? Then he dies and ends up blaming it on me because my level 12 i need farm ass didn’t come suicide with him 🤦🏻♀️ this was my ted talk and a little bit of a rant.. and also the reason i hate randoms.. because they always act like god no matter what when i’m just there trying to help my friend
@@litchtheshinigami8936 yeah Man ranked is pretty bad rn I've decided to if I'm going to play rank only in duoq cause if I don't its just casual with bans and a longer q time, I've been enjoying casual more than I thought
@@barushjimenez9171 ranked joust is okay i guess.. but conquest is just horseshit.. it was better a few seasons ago.. you still had some idiots in between like in the first ever ranked conq i ever did.. (i was on duo lane and i was doing fine winning my lane everything.. then our skadi solo who was bummed out they didn't get their favorite role decided to just ruin the match for everyone started stealing buffs where they could and such.. ended up having to f6 because of that one clown.. the match after that we won though and was fine overall)
Hunters have always had it the worst with this. Because the whole hunter role is basically "max out your dps as efficiently as possible" it always revolves around the mathematically-most-effective dps build.
Other roles (especially tanks!) tend to have a lot more diversity.
@@dragontyron yup as a tank u can build almost everything with some exceptions, even mages have more diversity than adcs
Leather cowl passive attack speed pops off minions
Well it seems like im not using this item anymore i loved it when it starter item came now its a meta
So you’re a hipster?
I’ve been skipping devos in my builds and going blood forge. I think its better especially in late game team fights when you get a kill.
Na devos has more life stew almost equal power and is 500 less gold. Blood forge is only if you are behind a lot and need a power spike real fast
@@zkdm9125 devos power spike and curve sucks and blood forge passive with the cloak is better and gives you more life steal the majority of the game. You have to be more than halfway through devos to reach the amount of lifesteal you would get from bloodforge with the the cloak. Your building crit you don’t need devos
@@zkdm9125 i build blood-forge and instantly get that 75 power. I don’t have to stack it for 6 to 10 minutes
@@zkdm9125 and it still doesn’t reach the same power because it gets 15 more life steal that you don’t need.
@@zkdm9125 actually 14 cause its some stupid number lifesteal caps at it on 29 i think lol
I'm still new to the game... What does "magical carry" mean? Or how do I know a character is one?
Magical carrys are typically ranged auto attack focus mages, like sol, freya, chronos or olorun :)
@@Mateooooo000 so, only those four characters are considered magical carries?
@@rip_jericho Thanks man, this helps a lot :D
@@rip_jericho believe me there a lot of things I don't understand or get confused by... But I'll guess I'll just keep watching more videos until I can understand.
@@rip_jericho thanks for the tip, I have experienced really mean and rude teammates when playing... I didn't know you could mute them, I'll try that next time.
Ay I think pandacat is using it rn
You should have made tbis vid when SPL started, so they'd have nerfed ornate by now
I only build hunter crowl with Artamies
Crits Feel like a Gimmick, They should add a CRIT PEN item
With the removal of tier 2 crits it's a bit awkward rn lol
They just nerfed the only crit pen item
well, its specifically for squishy team comps. An ADC's job is objective damage, not player kills.
@@chrislester3662 try telling that to people in my games
Fail-Not and Wind Demon both have pen. Fail-Not is bad though, but Wind Demon is good.
Ayo Sloth, wtf kinda upload schedule is this 😂😭 I’m trynna go to sleep bro but must watch this before I KO
it's honestly kinda sad how build diversity in the duo lane died down so fast.
Oh my god the patreon sample size lmao
Gilder arrow is good as long you sup let you farm so good at high lvl ranked low lvl keep going others
Honestly really don't like it when just one item seems viable and the rest are just not there because you won't see diversity.
Xbal feels almost unplayable without toll you have to back SO often. Like mana issues all game. You have to forgo devo for trans and now you have no sustain.
I mean you don't always have to go trans. He's such a flexible god from a build perspective that you can easily go any two items and then asi and still be fine because he just hits that hard.
Sorry, i meant to say that he just FEELS bad to play. I dont really think he needs buffs, just some QOL for his mana upkeep like release freya having mana restoring melees
Heimdallr with eye of the jungle goes brrr
I used to build that shit on him pre nerf and it was so good
@@Josh-dy4lq I mean, he can still do cool shit with that item, i love the damage it's sooo smooth
Can you do an update plz? I been so confused lately
no idea why people were building death's toll anyway, hunter's cowl did everything it did but better
Infinite mana
With Hunter's Cowl you had to either go Dominance for MP5 over Devo's or you had to buy mana pots on like every back.
@@Sebastian-fr5bw if you wanted infinite mana just buy trans
@@kriegaone3658 nah, I always went trans. It 9/10 out performed the hunter with devos
@@2fast4dad Dominance is better than Trans for AA focused builds
Im way too early for any useful comments to be posted :(
FIRST REPLY ON YOUR COMMENT!!!!!
Sorry. I had to :P
I find crit so unfun and am always sad when its meta
And how to build magical adc ? Could you pin a comment for that pls :)
Realistic answer? You don't. They're hardly worth playing for the most part, unfortunately. If you want to, Gilded, Shoes of the Magi, Bancrofts and then some variation of some power items like Rod of Tahuti and some Ring items like Telkhines is your best bet. Exact combination varies since some use Hastened, some Demonic and some Obsidian.
Chronos Mid: Start tier 2 Tahuti + Pots > Magi Shoes > Tahuti > Deso / Divine > Telkhines > Coin > Bumba's Hammer > boots for Poly.
Chronos ADC: Conduit + tier 1 Pythag's + Pots > Magi Shoes > Pythag's > Telkhines > Demonic > Tahuti > Gem of Focus > boots for Typhon's.
Sol Mid: Start Arrow + tier 1 Tahuti + Pots > Magi Shoes > Tahuti > Deso / Divine > Shard > Telkhines > Diamond Arrow > boots for Soul Gem.
Sol ADC: Arrow + tier 1 Pythag's + Pots > Magi Shoes > Pythag's > Telkhines > Demonic > Tahuti > Diamond Arrow > boots for Typhon's. Or, Magi Shoes > Tahuti > Pythag's > Telkhines > Typhon's Fang > Diamond Arrow > boots for Hastened / Demonic.
Don't play Olorun or Freya. Freya is dogshit and Olorun is bad against most normal comps. But if I was forced to play them, i'd build Olorun like the Sol ADC build and for Freya ADC i'd go Sands, Magi Shoes, Hastened, Demonic, Typhon's, Telkhines, Pendulum, boots for Tahuti.
I was playing rama with gilded arrow before it was cool.