Getting SCREWED on a Massive Grail
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
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Harvey went above and beyond. Especially after you explained how the large dealers stated they would handle this situation.
I agree with the dealers, responsibility falls on the buyer if they crack the book. Props to Harvey for taking the loss, totally above and beyond.
Kudos to Harvey for being an upstanding guy. That's a horrible situation.
Props to Harvey. Takes a lot of integrity to eat that loss 👏👏👏
Really nice of Harvey. Don't know if I could have after they cracked the book open.
Harvey is a very good guy. Personally, I think the responsibility is on the person that cracked it.
If you crack a book, the risk shifts to the buyer. I agree with the dealers and CGC. Mistakes happen which is why there is risk. Watching this, I will never crack a high value CGC book myself.
Yeah. I would have never open up a 9.0 hulk 181. I would make a youtube video for the very first time and have a big smile on my face and be shoving it in people face, look what I got ha ha ha ha. That is really not smart thanking. If he never open up the cgc he would never known about the stamp being missing and would have been a forever 10,000 book.
@@ramvat9247 💯💯
@@ramvat9247this mindset is exactly why these grading companies can continuously screw up and have zero accountability. If all buyers care about is the number, then what’s the point of even paying “professionals” to look at it?
Anyone with the foresight to submit Hulk 181 would also know that the book was incomplete when submitted. People should be looking for the original owner of the slab
@@Supertomscustoms No. The fact of the matter is that it was a 9.0 hulk 181. He cracked it open, for whatever reason. He found a missing stamp that may or may not have been cgc fault, we will never know. I do not believe that someone would be dumb enough to open up a hulk 181, but again I guess this guy was. I thank that who ever open this up cut the stamp out to get sympathy and or some of his money back. Point is it was a grade 9.0, now it has a missing piece and now a, just gussing a 4.5 grade. Just saying and not arguing.
I feel like if you own a CGC book that has a missing value stamp that you are unaware of and you send it to CGC to get pressed and re-graded then it will miraculously return to you with another blue label.
That sucks for everyone involved but your guy Harvey is a solid dude.
Tough one, I can see everyone's point of view. I do know Harvey is a wonderful human.
I agree to if a person cracks the slab they hold accept all the risk. That was very honorable of Harvey to do that
Too bad CGC did not grade the book correctly the first time. That is their one job.
Respect, Harvey.
I agree that the person who cracks a slab assumes all risk with what may be inside. Harvey is a good guy, but he was not responsible to refund here.
Harvey is a good guy! Thats rare!
You said it, increased risk comes with increased reward. It is definitely worth taking note of as you are cracking any book you own.
Yah. Agree that buyer is responsible. Buyer was greedy and wanted all the reward but no risk.
Ouch. That’s too bad for Harvey. Hope karma comes back to him asap.
Great video. Harvey is awesome. He was not responsible. My thought. Always video cracking a case. Just in case there is an issue. You will not be accused of a scam.
Wow! What a story…and horrible loss for Harvey. Thanks for sharing. Keep grinding bro!✌️
Wow,That's some bad luck, on a book like that smh. However, that bad luck falls on the person who cracked it. This Harvey guy making the buyer whole is Quite generous. Sucks for all involved, especially for Harvey for doing the "right" thing.
Oh no! I know nothing about comics but this sounds like an incredibly unfortunate situation for all involved. Kudos to Harvey for making it right. Stand up guy right there.
Quite a conundrum. Great information today. Thanks for sharing, Bry.
Sounds like Harvey is the man!
Another lesson: Tell the buyer upfront that anything they do to the book after they get it is fully on them. Make it a term of the sale.
You crack a slab, it's on you. I'd be happy with not having to deal with grading companies.
Learned a lot from this vid, this goes to show patience can be key. Now I know to send it to the original grader in these situations.
When CGC does their job correctly, we call them “highly trained professionals”. When they make mistakes we say, “Meh, they’re only human”. Depending on how many times this book changed hands, this mistake could have cost buyers tens of thousands of dollars. But CGC has zero accountability and everyone still just blindly follows along and continues to pay huge markups for their “expert” opinions, ignoring the fact that they could be completely wrong.
In this case, CGC has no reason to state they messed up. If you send the book to CGC to have them crack out the book, CGC has everything going in their way to not catch a missing marvel stamp. If they state they did miss it, then it makes them look bad and they have to pay money. If they just turn a blind eye and re-slab, no one is the wiser. They don not take a reputation hit or a monetary hit. This is an issue with their policy.
I agree what most are saying, if you crack it, you took the risk that others may have not have known about.
That is definitely a pickle 🥒. Lucky for that buyer your friend is a standup guy. My takeaway is that you have to stay on the moral side of things. You’ll probably take a hit here and there, but the customer base will stay loyal and provide longevity to your sales if they see your true personage.
Harvey's a standup guy. Can't say I would've done the same. If the buyer cracks it open, then it's buyer beware. Sorry, not sorry. Lol
What a crappy situation all around. That was nice of Harvey to take care of his customer but it’s a shame he was put into that situation.
I was about to say, why in the world did he not have CGC crack it is just insane. But glad you addressed that. Harvey shouldn’t have made him whole.
Marvel Value Stamps are the bane of 70’s comics.
Buyer cracked it so it should be on them at this point. But Harvey is a big man for this. Hope he gets a huge W for good karma.
Given the book switching scam going on with CGC right now that made me revisit this video for another look to see if this was a part if this scam. But given the book was graded so long ago it seems unlikely.
Same
Why would anyone trust CGC to be honest and report an earlier mistake? If they crack one of their own cases because someone submits it for a regrade, and if they then discover they missed something the first time round … how would anyone ever know? What incentive do they have to tell?
I’m kind of mystified at the reputation they have. I mean, they charge a percentage of the perceived value when they grade more valuable books, rather than a flat rate whenever they grade - that’s a basic conflict of interest right there. No dealer in fine arts or rare books could get away with that! If you assess antiques or paintings or rare books, you charge a flat rate - you don’t raise your rate according to the value of the object! That’s a scammers move.
Anyway, seems to me CGC is absolutely at fault here - and their response does not make me feel confident that they would ever take responsibility for making a mistake, under any circumstance. Saying “we have to be the ones who open the case before we will admit fault” certainly works in their favor, doesn’t it?
Honestly, it makes me wonder why anyone collects slabbed books.
Seems to me you aren’t really collecting comics when you buy slabs. You are collecting cases with numbers on them and you are paying for the number.
Bottom line is this error is clearly CGCs. They had ONE JOB here and they failed at it. And who knows how many incomplete books, or books with detached staples on centerfolds, or clipped coupons, or with writing on an interior page, are out there, locked in slabs that y’all are now scared to crack.
And that’s before we get into the insanity of the supposed “difference” between a 9.4 or 9.6 or a 9.8. Almost entirely arbitrary micro-distinctions that the collecting community has outsourced to a commercial company rather than make for themselves. It’s bonkers.
Who ever Harvey is I want to buy books from him.
Def would send it in to be cracked etc to the grading service peeps.
What happened sucked. Harvey went out of his way to satisfy. He's a solid seller imo.
As much as I respect Harvey's decision to honour the refund and make the situation whole. I firmly believe that if you sell a slab with a blue label, you and the buyer are putting all your faith and understanding into the book being graded professionally and correctly. I'm sorry but I would not have honoured the refund. You crack it... you lose guarantee.
There needs to be some sort of disclaimer from the seller to the buyer in situations like this, to cover Harvey. As the buyer was thinking he could make more out of this deal by cracking the book. And Harvey took the fall.
I appreciate how honest he was in doing the right thing. I do think that you may be underestimating how devious some buyers are on ebay sometimes. We have been selling there for over 20 years and we have never seen it so bad as it has been with people not being happy with their purchase and returning it, only to find it's not the same item you sent. I could see this happening with a grail comic like that. I don't blame CGC or any other grading company for not covering the book once it's been cracked open from the slab.
Yes, actual responsibility would have to fall tot the person who's choice it as to crack a book out of a secured graded status.
Gotta agree with the dealers on this one. The root lies with the person that sent this in as incomplete and let it lie as compete, they won the mini lottery on that.
Wow. What a stand up Person! Thanks for sharing Your passion and adventures from Toronto Ontario Canada 😎 👍 ♥️ 📚 📚📚📚📚✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️☕️☕️☕️☕️☕️💯💯💯💯💯✨️
Beyond Generous of Harvey to do this. Although I do lean towards a mistake on CGC's Part, I agree with them and vendors for cases like this. If the buyer decides to crack the book, then that risk is completely on them. I would never crack a high value book myself. Far too many risks vs the reward.
100% CGC . No way if three people actually graded this comic separately that this should have been missed. I agree that whoever submitted the book, if they knew, should have corrected the mistake. Unfortunately, not everyone is that forthright.
Harvey should get a donor copy and perform some comic book surgery.
Thanks for breaking it down! Great info.
I would think that the solution here would be for CGC to "certify" trusted third-party professional pressing services to do this service for them. If you then go to one of them, CGC can then still stand by their grading standards, AND the consumer can get pick their preferred pressing/cleaning service.
To nice a guy Harvey...😮
So sad to hear that Harvey lost out on that deal.
To be 100% fair, I was involved in the consignment of this book and know very well the person who received the Hulk 181 from Harvey. When he got the slab in cracked, with a piece of plastic inside, he consulted with Harvey to see if he should fully crack the book out in the return shipment in order to prevent further damage... It’s worth mentioning that both my friend and Harvey were on a live call together when they cracked it together. I don’t think either the buyer or seller in this situation had any type of foul play.
Interesting -- it puts the whole thing in context because I initially thought Harvey was foolish for refunding a buyer who took on the risk of cracking the book open. Bry, you should pin this comment to the top of the comment section.
Absolutely puts this into perspective, if there was a piece of plastic hurting the book (old slabs are brittle) and both parties agreed to cracking it open to prevent damage…. Sounds like a different story..
The guy who had it graded knew it should have been given a green label, IMO. That's why it still had an old label. But once you crack it, it's on you. Kudos to Harvey. He is NO Two-Face.
pandora's box is a thing for a reason but cracking and pressing as a general rule is a good thing imho!
This is why I associate with good people in the community like you and people you associate with
What a nightmare scenario! Bad luck for sure
Wow, that sucks . The fault is CGC,s ( presuming there's no scam). However, if you cracked it, then responsibility is yours . No different than getting a lower grade after resubmission, this guy gambled and lost no way Harvey should have made up the difference.
CGC should at least clean press and slab that book for free, out of goodwill to Harvey.
I agree - if you crack it, you own it - how else would we have more Trustworthiness
Got a similar situation as the TOS 39. Have an Amazing Spidey #2 in a CGC 4.0 (old label) I picked up years ago, and it desperately needs a C&P! But especially since CGC's grading standards have tightened up since this book was graded, it's a real possibility that it might grade lower even after cleaning it up. So same conclusion - best to stand pat. So tempting though....
Got a bit of Schrödinger’s Cat going on here.
Great video Bry! Harvey didn't need to refund the buyer since it was an "as is" deal and as you said, those are the risks if you crack open a slab yourself.
In my opinion, anyone cracking a case takes on the risk of devaluation. Even if the stamp were intact, CPR does not guarantee a better grade or even the same grade. There are many examples of books coming back in lower grades. There is a possible solution to help the book. One could add the MVS back into the book and resubmit. If done correctly, the book would come back with a conserved blue-grey label. This is a relatively newer grade for CGC and likely will fetch a higher value than the green label. Yes, it is a lot of work and one would have to find that elusive MVS but they do show up on eBay for auction from time to time. Best case scenario would be to get a grade bump to a conserved 9.2 or higher. Thanks for sharing this interesting cautionary tale from the dark side of comic book collecting. Cheers!
Harvey is too nice. I am all for making customers happy but the customer purchased a graded slab. Nothing more, or less. What if the customer opened the slab and realized he was wrong and it could come back an 8.5 and then cut the coupon himself?. Again Kudos to Harvey for going way above and beyond.
Or he switched the book.
Regarding your concerns at 11:30. If CBCS accepts responsibility when they crack open their own graded book, a way to play that game could have been to let CBCS do a regrade, let them reconfirm the book. Then receive the newly slabbed CBCS and send it in for grading at CGC. Since you did your validation at the original company you eliminated the risk of missing out on potential financial compensation. The only risk then is how fair CBCS is going to be in case of an error.
Do you think this book might have been one of those scams recently reported by Swagglehaus among others?
Totally agree with you. But yeah, you crack it and its not what its marked as its on you. But great info on just letting cgc crack and re-slab.
Great info, good idea on CGC doing the cpr…. Lowers the risk for sure
I believe if legitimacy is Proven CGC should be held liable. without collecting a fee for cracking and pressing. other grading companies are constantly held to standards that CGC is able to avoid by reputation alone. if I'm the person I look into litigation to remedy this situation.CGC graded the book. when it was graded shouldn't matter. theres no statute of limitations on the grading process. or at least there shouldn't be. newer companies don't get that leeway, neither should CGC.
Have you seen the latest video from Automatic Comics pointing out the CGC scam of swapping the comic on a qualified Hulk 181 8.5 for one in a blue holder 9.0? I wonder if there is any correlation with this situation. If CGC can be fooled on a reholder, I’m sure an older slab insert swap would be doable without detection. I’d be curious to know if there were any sold pictures of this comic prior to your friend purchasing it to see if they’re the same comic.
I always believed if you do something with the slab itself in your hands then your responsible unless CGC messed up on the deal then you send it back to them to get it fixed which it would be their problem then.
It’s not about ethics. It’s about dealing with potential fraud
Good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Seems like CGC should have a "crack and re-check" service on concerns especially for high valued. Then they can add to their comic notes "checked twice." ^.^
Whoa that's nuts. Thanks for sharing 👍
For a long time i've been wondering about those digital code stickers Marvel puts in their books. How much does removing those devalue the book?
Never crack old comics out of the case. That’s the moral of the story
Always great content. I would never crack a 9 or over to resubmit but never thought about the old label cgc possibly didn’t have as strict of grading back then where a mistake could be more possible
I’ve watched about half of this and had to comment (I will go back and finish the video )
This comes down to CRACK AT OWN RISK!!! Cracking the slab is sort of a greedy move thinking you will get a improved grade and increase your value.., Harvey should not take the hit (in fact if I sell a book in the future it will be agreed upon that “if you crack it ITS ON YOU!”
Hey Bry, I think you should get the parties in an interview on your channel and let them have their own say on what happened. Reading the comments it seems that there is more to this story!😅😅
one question would be - what were the grading standards of CGC at that time? There is another video by Automatic Comics about a person who bought an old blue label golden age comic off an auction site, and the same comic appeared again at auction in a qualified grade with a missing mail-in coupon. If these books were graded at the same time, then what was the grading standards at the time? How long has the qualified grade been used? I had one in 2012, but the label was created for a reason and this may have been it. I think, in the case of a missing value stamp, CGC used to put it in a blue label, but it notated that the stamp was missing. I'm not sure about that statement, but the qualified grade was created for a reason.
Buyers fault knowing ,cracking the book hoping to resubmit to increase value risk the book also the book decreases also
At the end of the day that is a Monumental mistake on cgc part, did you not make a video on PGX and how you won't buy their books cuz they're restored or graded when something is missing from a book just like this situation I guess a situation like this is if the books a really expensive book you don't crack in out of the shell just to try to upgrade greed is a killer
I recall that CBCS 9.6 TOS - like you i was going to bid on it for arbitrage into CGC but had similar concern. Same this week on Comic Link - a FF#1 PGX 7.5 (good looking book) went for 40% value of a Similarly graded CGC. Just was so concerned about missed restoration or other missed item. Someone probably got a great deal at 38K
Makes me worry about the completeness of the slabbed books I have. I've heard other horror stories like this too, when slabs are cracked open.
This year alone two silver age raw books I bought off eBay came back with purple labels . Both had color touch. When I contacted the dealers one refunded my money the other said the book was as described. I said it was not described as restored when you advertised it. I had to contact eBay and jump through hoops to get me money back. Then when I gave him a bad review he said he messaged me that I effected his lively hood and I’m just scamming and the type of person who is never happy? I could have taken it further but decided if would no get me anywhere.
Dude, that is clearly CGC’s’s fault your friend bought that book in January believing it was what CGC stated it was, therefore, your friend didn’t scam anyone; & the unfortunate new owner was just doing his due diligence; cracking the slab to get it re-slabbed in a newer case -lo & behold only to find that his “supposedly pristine” 9.0, Hulk #181 is actually incomplete. #CGCsFault #AllDayLong 💯
Good on the seller to take the hit.
I consider the green label a custom label on my Hulk 181 🤷♂️
The second a book gets cracked - all chain of custody goes right out the window. That very second. CGC ain't gonna claim liability of course as they can't be there in person in your living room watching the thing get cracked open. This is just sooo random and so rare.
Hate to hear that. Harvey is a stand up dude.
Always the buyer in a slab. You crack you take all risks.
Cgc should be responsible they verify the grade is 9.0 universal . But its also on us for putting the value we do on graded books when they are not guaranteed. If cgc said we guarantee this book is this grade and pay for the difference but that won't ever happen..but cgc cracking the book and taking responsibility is really stand up ...good on them
It was CGC’s mistake, they should fix it. I’ve had similar experiences ( not with a Hulk # 181 ), but still…20 yrs ago or three days ago - that is their one and only job.
Harvey, was a solid human being. 🤙
Sounds like Harvey got either scammed or buyers regret kicked in . In this case traders regret
Thats rough stuff would be so bummed out.
It's on CGC, not the original submitter and not the seller.
Gives value to self slabbed books that you can open. Review. Reslab at the store and then buy it.