The difference between legally and clinically insane...this has always been so hard for me to comprehend. Thank you for touching upon it (no one else does)! This gives me a jumping-off point.
That’s not important in a criminal setting. More important is did the offender know what he did was wrong…criminally. Dahlmer’s behavior indicated knew it was wrong. Like pedeophiles are not normal, but they make the conscious decision to sexually predate children and need to be imprisoned to protect children.
A lot of people are not normal. They might have an obsession with nature or music, and spend what may be considered an excessive amount of time. It is ok unless they do something like becoming violent when someone criticises their interest.
The problem is, the legal concept of culpability should not inform whether a criminal or inmate receives mental health treatment. Unfortunately, we Americans have a system designed to only offer mental health treatment to those who legally qualify as “insane”, but that doesn’t address the way a person’s mental illness can influence their decision making process, even if they have an understand of what they’re doing or that it’s wrong. We offer almost nothing with regard to treatment (in prison), prioritize punishment, and then wonder why our recidivism rates are so high or why criminal behavior flourishes in our prison systems.
When you watch interviews with Dahmer you can actually see the moment something switches in his mind and he goes somewhere where a "normal" person wouldn't venture - he seems to be unable to see the boundary at that moment and it's quite evidently on an unconscious basis. Btw, he repeatedly said in interviews he was relieved to have been caught as he was unable to stop himself. I see no reason to doubt that confession - we all know compulsion from our everyday experience, although it usually regards small things like not being able to resist another piece of chocolate, haha - but the principle remains.
One of my daughters partner’s father was murdered by one of his friends. The man in question was diagnosed with schizophrenia but stopped taking his medication. There were four of them drinking one night when the man with schizophrenia heard voices telling him to kill George, he beat him to death and the other two people present couldn’t stop him. As far as I know the man is locked away in a mental institution. I like your channel because the way you explain things it isn’t always black and white.😊
I would say that in my training as a cousellor for alcohol misuse. alcohol was described as the "permission giver" allowing people to do and say what they already want to. Certainly , it is recognised as a disinhibiter.
I found you from "The Disturbing Truth" channel. I enjoy hearing your ideas & explanations as to why people commit crimes/offend. Thank you, Dr. for your amazing work!
He could control compulsions for years at a time. It was his choice. Could've gone to rehab and counseling as dually diagnosed. Companionship was not his goal; it was absolute control.
I think control was a means to a relationship that wasn’t threatening. I feel he would have flourished as a Dom in an S and M relationship, and never would have killed. His forensic psychologist said during the trial that he drugged men bc he did NOT want to be the recipient of anal sex. He only wanted to give it. In the 90s gay culture, it was very normal to be a “bottom” or a “top” so I don’t understand why he didn’t find a man that was a bottom and call it a day.
Jeffery Dahmer did horrific things to innocent young men! There is no excuse for his actions. That being said, mental health is not an excuse but a hard reality for many. Sadly there are many instances where mental health plays a key role and is often untreated but this does not lead to such extreme behaviors. Thank you for this very interesting and informative video!
I wondered if his father tried to direct Jeffs potential "desires" as a child by disecting animals. Perhaps having the same thoughts, he knew his son could have the same issues but was also exhibiting signs of mental instability (his mum was on serious drugs whilst pregnant with Jeff and the home discourse wouldnt have helped - also jeffs mother was not "present" in a maternal sense) Unfortunately, it seems this only served to increase Jeffs desires and fascination with dead things- he didnt torture his victims per se, he drugged them then killed them and dismembered after death. As was pointed out, he needed to be mentally "numb" via drugs/alcohol himself to do these things. The acts of murder wasnt his motivation but having a body to "play"with was. He was fascinated by the body and i cant help but wonder that, had this been directed into an occupation that he couldve thrived ie coroner or something and had the right mental health assistance, who knows how different this may have turned out. None of this excuses what he did by any means! The saddest part of it all is that police didnt act sooner despite numerous tips and instances which resulted in many innocent people losing their lives.
He expressed not having belief in himself for a career like a coroner or something science based which is why he went to meat cutting/being a butcher but he’d often get fired for enjoying it too much I’m pretty sure. Since he was into necro though, idk how long he’d really last as a coroner before getting fired from that as well. Loneliness drove him in a lot of ways so I think no matter what, he would have ended up there
@@hp6964the forensic psychologist at his trial specifically said Jeff did not have necrophilia. I agree that loneliness was his biggest nemesis - and feeling unlovable. He also told the forensic psych that he never met a man that wanted to go on a vacation with him or be in a long term relationship…but then also admitted that he never put in the effort to facilitate one. He was complicated - and the root of his issues were fear of abandonment and alcoholism (which was likely a symptom of child trauma of some kind IMO). Dahmer was a result of failures all around him. I think he could have been directed into taxidermy or mortician’s work as you said. And on his personal life, I think if he had developed interpersonal skills as a young adult instead of being allowed to begin drinking heavily at 14, he would have desired and developed a relationship.
thanks very much dr das, great video ✌ in couple of days netflix releases the dahmer tapes too which his lawyer recorded. more interesting than the series
? BPD don't feel emotions deeply? I have BPD and have never heard anyone state this. In fact, it's the opposite. I've always been told by my treating psychiatrist that we experience emotions MORE deeply and intensely than non-BPD people, and literature supports this. Obviously only one of us here is a Dr and an expert and it ain't me, but I'm genuinely shocked to hear this and now I'm super confused!
💯 Absolutely agree with everything u said about those with BPD I have it too and also feel emotions very deeply Very sensitive too all Like they have always It's like having third degree burns everything single emotional can have a massive impact which causes us not been able to regulate them,Which them leads to impulsiveness and so on I've never heard the opposite of this
@@Delightful_Debi it was a very strange comment he made, I wondered if he might have made a mistake? It’s definitely established fact supported by peer reviewed literature and research that our emotions are intense. There’s even been research showing comparisons between our brains and non-BPD brains, so I reckon he’s made a mistake here. Bit weird he liked my comment but didn’t reply though.
Yeah i get confused when these people talk on BPD tbh. I used to think it could have applied to Dahmer because of attachment issues and pain/emotions associated when it's triggered. Other than that i don't really understand, there's not enough discussion from professionals about him.
Why would you assume he didn't? He was constantly numbing himself from everything and comes off as very dissociated at all times. Under the surface there was definitely volatile emotions, he was alexithymic, he couldn't recognise or process his own emotions to nearly the same degree as someone else. BPD isn't just one type of person, there's thousands of subtypes, especially when taking comorbidity into account.
Thanks doc, a good summary of this often contentious topic (for the general public). I think these differing diagnoses (eg prosecution vs defence) and the idea that alleged criminal/murderer can easily manipulate medical professionals cause many people to doubt whether someone is truly NCR (and/or their views on crime and punishment in general). I'm curious as to your thoughts on Vince Li, the Greyhound killer who decapitated and partially ate poor Tim McLean (RIP) on a bus in Manitoba, Canada in 2008. His NCR, treatment and eventual release caused an uproar here.
I haven't watched the video yet - just started - but have you ever watched behavioral arts and/or Behavior Panel channel on Dahmer? Will be interesting if your evaluation (that i am watching now) will match what they saw in his body language.
Great presentation. The Dahmer case is a good illustration of the diagnostic problems involved as well as the disposition. I was wondering, though, what your thoughts are about "mentally ill but responsible for his/her actions". I was also wondering about psychopathy. He did have childhood indicators of sadism and lack of empathy. Personally, I think that he had a personality disorder as well as a broad swath of psychopathy. Neither of these would qualify as conditions that might make the individual unable to resist impulses to kill. So he might be "disturbed" but not "insane" - per the legal definition of insanity. I've just discovered your channel and plan to watch more of your presentations. They are very informative.
I've always had questions about Jeffrey's dahmers father.. something about him just does not ring true to me.. not even sure why.. I think in part it's because he seemed to love the attention that he was getting by giving his interviews.. and he loved to promote the fact that they had a normal family I don't know.. I don't think this can be true and they're just seems something shady about his father.
Why rehabilitate if you are not going to release?.....the answer to that is IF someone can be rehabilitated and to become aware of everything they do and effect on others aswell as self, then regardless of whether they are released or not, they should be rehabilitated. It's for their own growth . Everybody, including the worst of the worst, should have a right to Self Growth.
Or if someone is suffering from an illness of any kind, the right thing to do is treat it. He still has to pay for his crimes, but he shouldn’t be left to suffer from an illness, whether mental or physical just because he is never getting out of prison.
Hi thankyou for doing this Channel, I find the working of the human mind so fascinating. The whole nature versus nurture debate or whether its a combination of both . I have so many questions, you say psychopaths have to be charming yet people like Richard ramirez seemed odd rather than charming. I thought psychopathy was on a scale ? I find it so fascinating that certain jobs seem to attract more people higher up on the psychopathy scale. Do you believe the criteria for BPD is to wide as obviously you only have to meet 5 out of 9 criteria and there are over 200 + variations of these criteria? X
He definitely had that other stuff going on with him but IMO he was definitely autistic along with BPD. And it needs to be remembered that most autistic people and most people with BPD are nothing like him.
That's fucked up. That Dr Diatz got it so right with Dahmer got it so wrong with Andrea Yates. Yates didn't deserve the scorn and punishment yet Dahmer almost got a Mulligan from others (Promising Young Man-wow)!
I’ve always assumed Dahmer’s proclivity for necrophilia was strongly rooted in sadism and a desire to utterly control others. I’ve always thought there are some psychological similarities between him, Ian Watkins, Saville, Cosby and Reynhard Sinaga, because they all seemed to gain pleasure through abuse of drugged and unconscious victims. In one sense, you can view necrophilia as being on the far end of the spectrum of that kind of psychology. Does that sound accurate, Dr. S?
It seems like there should be a group that is impartial and can analyze the perpetrators without being tied to either the defense or prosecution. Like each trial gets the forensic psychiatrist and that’s the only one they get.
I truly appreciate that other countries recognize mental illnesses and place offenders in a place that may help them have a successful life once they've received treatment. There seems to be a much lower recidivism rate for those imprisoned in other countries. Personally, I agree that Dahmer wouldn't have a chance of rehabilitation. However, in the US there really aren't institutions for perpetrators of crime that have underlying mental health disorders. Prisons in the US do not provide mental health care. Nor do they help with withdrawal even when it may cause the loss of human life.
My dad works in prison, they do have mental health care and most prisoners are on psychiatric meds. It’s just they’re usually not psychotic and they don’t fit the legal definition of insanity. The problem is that the quality of care isn’t the best and if they have substance use issues it’s very easy to get access to drugs in prison.
Dr Das? Have you given a review based on your experience about the film Promising Young Woman and compare it with the "Promising Young Man" as quoted for Dahmer?
I am no longer surprised when prosecutors are the authority on sanity, and find experts to agree, and defense are the experts on insanity, and find expects to agree; seems like you can buy an expert to agree with anything; doesn't say much for expertise, I guess they are just people who know something and are happy selling a commodity. What I am surprised about is an algorithm is running our lives, an algorithm that has no margin for nuances, no concept of actual human differences and behaviour, no grey area where most of us live, just a blanket yes or no, I'm scared for the future.
The term insanity has a different connotation in a court than it does in society. All they have to prove in court is that he knew the difference between right and wrong but did it any way. Then he is legally sane. Doesn’t mean he isn’t mentally ill.
Great vid but my opinion is you talk so fast that I almost feel out of breath! Would you be able to slow things down? It just seems so rushed and you have to get all the info in a certain period of time. Why are you rushing? Just my curiosity. Still a great vid as I said. Have a great day. Cheers! 😊🇨🇦
He was plugging his book on his son’s life and their relationship . I believe that in another interview with the father I was struck by the dad identifying his own violent fantasies being similar to Jeffrey’s. I do not know if it has been investigated. Perhaps father may have groomed his son, sharing their fantasies. I don’t recall if father drank alcohol. Father appeared dissociated in his interviews. Possible Folie a’ Deux? Father came across as being very close to his son and visited him in prison. When you comment about wanting to take over the world it reminds me of friends of the B’hai faith using that phrase. Finally, I am a licensed Marriage Family Therapist and Registered Art Therapist. I find your personality so refreshing. I often watch your videos before going to sleep and yes, I bought your book on Kindle. So wonderful! Love is definitely such an important component in the field of Mental Health and appreciate your passion for people. I live in❤ in Southern California I would love to attend your lectures. Naomi
Jeffrey's family were not accepting/understanding of him being homosexual. His father, (as well as grandmother, step-mother, possibly biological mother too), was very homophobic, thought homosexuality was "repugnant to God" and "something to be conquered". From Lionel Dahmer's book, "...those aspects of Jeff's life that could not be reconciled with my continued hope that he had straightened out". When the grandmother had found the male mannequin "...the hopeful period of Jeff's reformation was slowly coming to an end, that he was drifting downward again." "...there was another report from West Allis. My mother called to say that Jeff was often away from home for long periods, sometimes whole weekends. His excuse was that he liked to roam a nearby mall, or that he had gone to Chicago to hangout for a while. More ominous from my mother's point of view was another incident. One morning, she had been on her way down the stairs when Jeff had abruptly called her to stop, "I'm not dressed", he'd told her and asked my mother to go back up the stairs." "I also had to admit that there was a darker side to Jeff, though I didn't allow myself to consider where this darker side might lead. And so my life had become an exercise in avoidance and denial. I had grasped at every hope, evaded every unpleasant truth. In the months that followed, my conversations with Jeff continued on the same anaesthetized plane they'd been on since he was a teenage boy. We spoke but we did not converse. I made suggestions. He accepted them. He gave excuses. I accepted them. It was as if we had agreed to speak only in half sentences, communicating only what it was safe to communicate, and never moving to penetrate the wall that had come to exist between us." The above (and there's more) was simply because Jeffrey was gay, something he was born with and couldn’t help. I can imagine him feeling suffocated and not in control. He told his probation officer that his father was controlling. His mother was absent (mentally, emotionally, physically), generally mothers are more accepting of their gay sons than fathers. In the Judge's words, "I think what we had is a homosexual, who could not accept he was in fact, a homosexual." Internalised homophobia. He told his army roommate who he abused, Billy Joe Capshaw, that he wanted to please his father. Jeffrey was projecting his frustration, shame/insecurity (including religious-related), wanting to be close and not rejected by family, and need for control...especially I think what he felt towards his father, onto his sexual partners/victims. A relationship with a consenting, living breathing human being could still risk his "own private little world" (of being gay) being exposed. I know many gay people had horrible parents back then, but Jeffrey seems to also have had a predisposition for mental illness and psychopathy.
@@evaschroeder4614 I agree with you (I have ASD) but it would be interesting to hear what Dr Das has to say about ASD possibly being one of the factors contributing to Dahmers personality that could have in part had an influence on his future behaviour xx
How can a sentence of sixteen life sentences be executed? You would have to trace all the criminal’s successive reincarnations, if such a thing even exists.
Great information. Dahmer plead guilty to all counts. His interviews are fascinating, but like most people, I just can’t fathom how anybody can do the gruesome stuff that Dahmer and Bundy did. Just subscribed!
Very interesting. Thank you.The points brought helped me with so much I've wondering about! So if someone has alcohol dependence does it that mean they are alcoholic? Once you are a alcoholic and have years and year of sobriety but still have cravings does that mean you still have alcohol dependence?
I am no expert, but imho abstinence evidences that you are no longer dependent on the substance so if someone abused alcohol (drank compulsively) and stopped giving into to their compulsions by abstaining from alcohol then they are no longer dependent on alcohol. I don’t agree completely with the AA idea of once alcoholic always an alcoholic, but it is useful in creating a mindset of vigilance for the person who did abuse alcohol before, that moderation is not an option for them and total abstinence is the best option for them going forward. How I see it, is that a person with a history of alcoholism (chronic alcohol abuse) have heightened susceptibilities/tendencies and alcohol can be a danger to them.
I was diagnosed with bpd but I got help and I don't fear being alone abandonment. Also finding self worth in Jesus helped too. God approves of me and will never abandon me.
I am 815 👍. Ist of all why does YT community have an issue with the word necrophelllia? Its a latin medical term that describes an action that not even an animal would perform. Yet human creatures do. 2nd of all I just stumbled upon your vid. Hope it keeps growning. I will be checking in.
Is it "shmorgeshbord" or "shmorgesborg?" And for the record, it's only the burgers with excessively watery tomatoes that eject shirt-ruining liquids everywhere.
This has been pretty useful I’ve subbed 👍🏽 my older bro on my mums side I’m worried he will or already is an SK like Dahmer. He’s violent, paranoid, has no empathy or sympathy, has tortured and killed dogs, SA young boys, I found him on Grindr on my computer but he’s very openly homophobic and brags about attacking homosexual men and throwing them onto train tricks, using a BB gun on a cats eye, stabbing him self with a screw in the stomach just to see what would happen and he’s said he enjoys taking things of sentimental value to people especially of the object is from a deceased person they loved and he’ll put it in bins a couple streets away knowing they’ll never find it and he enjoys that power knowing he has the power to end that grief and restlessness of losing something that may have zero monetary value but is high in sentimental value. He’s bragged about stabbing a man and seeing a blue tent up around the outside of guys house where he collapsed after chasing him out and even smashing construction slabs on a man’s head to rob him in the middle of the night. I’m absolutely convinced he’s got bodies, I’ve told this to the met police so many times and they do nothing and say he’s lying to look good, my brother is 31 and has been this way since childhood, I’ve seen the bodies of dogs he’s beaten, gouged the eyes out of and gutted whilst the dog was still alive.
The diagnosis of bipolar sounds kinda absurd, but schizotypal sounds very plausible or what we call psychotic personality structure. Just like Shipman, he was insane, but not insane enough so that he wouldn't be able to control his own actions and understand their meaning.
Cheers Doc. Interesting analysis. I remember him being arrested and seeing bits n pieces of the trial. Read nearly every book about him, but not seen the Netflix series, been told it’s gratuitous. Any chance you could do a video on Richard Chase or Herb Mullin maybe? I recall Robert Ressler opining the former should’ve been in a psychiatric hospital initially. The latter I’m sure was in prison with Ed Kemper at some point, but surely seemed mentally ill, killing to prevent adverse weather events as I recall. Would be much appreciated if you could. Cheers!
@@APsychForSoreMinds Well, that’s cool and all doc, but does that mean you’ll make the videos? Wanna know what you have to say about somatic and persecutory/paranoid delusions. Is there some kinda formal process for requests or do you you just do your own thing? Cheers!
I could barely click on this 1 cuz of how so so awful & devastating this man's crimes were & for the barely tolerable to even hear, much less comprehend of how his victims suffered. Just 🤮🤮. Uuuugh! His poor victims. If he committed these offenses, he obviously could not control his impulses. Good grief!
Easily mistaken? Not likely. To be diagnosed, one would need to meet several criteria. Schizotypal includes things like paranoid thoughts, strange thinking and speech, social anxiety, strange beliefs or “magical” thinking, etc. To diagnose, a psychiatrist is looking for multiple symptoms and not just hypersensitivity.
@@scottcastro9383 I think you don't understand, what I meant with hypersensitivity. It's said that there are only 15% of the Mankind, with hypersensitivity existing, but the People who are affected, by it, think that it's just 3%. It also often includes social anxiety, very sharp senses, channeling other People's feelings, acting awkward to others, sometimes even complete, social Isolation, because many can't stand noises, you can feel other People's feelings, you are not just thinking that you can do it. This "just" and Hypersensitivity, don't fits together.“When you know that you are highly sensitive, it reframes your life. Sensitive people have to live differently in order to be comfortable.” - Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D.
I really love your insights.Thank you. But....sometimes, after going through all the procedures and interviews, do you ever just feel like saying " He's as mad as a sack full of cats!" Particularly if you've not been able to diagnose a mental illness.😀
I love the question on the thumbnail : was Jeffrey Dahmer "unwell"? Well, I think we can say that, yes. 🙄🙄🙄 That's quite the british understatement! We might think that Dahmer was not "completely at ease". He might have experienced some "existential discomfort"... 😊
I’m so glad that you done a video on this cause I feel like I’m surrounded by insane people who sympathise with him 🤮 Understanding is one thing, but sympathising?! Anyway! What diagnosis do you think he had, if any? Are you planning more videos on him? Cause it seemed rushed…But then you are very busy and I am grateful all the same. Us obsessed fans will watch regardless 😅
Then why are you here? Why are you so eager to know what’s wrong with him if you don’t care then why bother to watch these videos? People sympathize with him because he’s human and he was neglected and had a horrible childhood not because we are crazy or are trying to excuse his actions.
the real fact is that nobody knows anything about somenone's mind, there are many Psychiatrist around and each one of them have differente perspection about the reason why someone commits a crime like that , but the fact is nobody knows.
But in dhamers case I do think mental and emotional illness and trauma influenced him so he was partially responsible for his actions but he also had mental illnesses and trauma that influenced him. I don't think he was skitzophrenic but I do think he definitely had some mental illnesses. And issues from trauma abuse. As a religious person I also think he suffered from demonic influence oppression/possession
Hi. Thank You for interesting video. Robert Ressler, the FBI profiler said as I know that Dahmer had Dissociative Disorder, not Dissociative Identity Dosorder, but just Dissociative... Maybe Depersonalization/Derealization...? I don't know about Dahmer or Kemper, but as I've read about Richard (Rick) Chase case..., he had, I think Schizophrenia and shouldn't be executed... Again... Thanks very much.
The difference between legally and clinically insane...this has always been so hard for me to comprehend. Thank you for touching upon it (no one else does)! This gives me a jumping-off point.
There's no way that Jeffrey Dhamer was "normal."
That’s not important in a criminal setting. More important is did the offender know what he did was wrong…criminally. Dahlmer’s behavior indicated knew it was wrong. Like pedeophiles are not normal, but they make the conscious decision to sexually predate children and need to be imprisoned to protect children.
@@infinitejest.4994 Yes they can. That was the whole point of this video.
@@kathycarbone7545 correct, but if we can understand it, it can help to predict and prevent.
@@kathycarbone7545 but if you listen, there is clearly disagreement among the experts.
A lot of people are not normal. They might have an obsession with nature or music, and spend what may be considered an excessive amount of time. It is ok unless they do something like becoming violent when someone criticises their interest.
The problem is, the legal concept of culpability should not inform whether a criminal or inmate receives mental health treatment. Unfortunately, we Americans have a system designed to only offer mental health treatment to those who legally qualify as “insane”, but that doesn’t address the way a person’s mental illness can influence their decision making process, even if they have an understand of what they’re doing or that it’s wrong. We offer almost nothing with regard to treatment (in prison), prioritize punishment, and then wonder why our recidivism rates are so high or why criminal behavior flourishes in our prison systems.
When you watch interviews with Dahmer you can actually see the moment something switches in his mind and he goes somewhere where a "normal" person wouldn't venture - he seems to be unable to see the boundary at that moment and it's quite evidently on an unconscious basis. Btw, he repeatedly said in interviews he was relieved to have been caught as he was unable to stop himself. I see no reason to doubt that confession - we all know compulsion from our everyday experience, although it usually regards small things like not being able to resist another piece of chocolate, haha - but the principle remains.
I think this is an excellent point
Jails and prisons should have pyschiatric drugs in the darts and srynges
@@8191-m8tthey stopped for a reason! It’s very dangerous
This was super informative they should definitely put info like this in the TV shows they make !!
A psychiatrist with a sense of humour.
Didn't know they existed.
All shlychiatrists can shrack shlokes.
There are some.
Ha ha
One of my daughters partner’s father was murdered by one of his friends. The man in question was diagnosed with schizophrenia but stopped taking his medication. There were four of them drinking one night when the man with schizophrenia heard voices telling him to kill George, he beat him to death and the other two people present couldn’t stop him. As far as I know the man is locked away in a mental institution. I like your channel because the way you explain things it isn’t always black and white.😊
@@infinitejest.4994 it happened in Australia and our mental health system is in crisis. Thank you for your message.
My roommate is skitzophrenic I hope she never hears voices saying to kill me!
@@infinitejest.4994 that sucks.
I would say that in my training as a cousellor for alcohol misuse. alcohol was described as the "permission giver" allowing people to do and say what they already want to. Certainly , it is recognised as a disinhibiter.
So far you are my fave psychologist channel. Love that i found this channel!! (found you through Black Belt barrister during AH v JD trial.
Dahmer's psych profile has always interested me. Thank you for breaking it down.
I found you from "The Disturbing Truth" channel. I enjoy hearing your ideas & explanations as to why people commit
crimes/offend. Thank you, Dr. for your amazing work!
He could control compulsions for years at a time. It was his choice. Could've gone to rehab and counseling as dually diagnosed. Companionship was not his goal; it was absolute control.
@@infinitejest.4994 we're all wondering monster or sick or both?
I think control was a means to a relationship that wasn’t threatening. I feel he would have flourished as a Dom in an S and M relationship, and never would have killed. His forensic psychologist said during the trial that he drugged men bc he did NOT want to be the recipient of anal sex. He only wanted to give it. In the 90s gay culture, it was very normal to be a “bottom” or a “top” so I don’t understand why he didn’t find a man that was a bottom and call it a day.
Jeffery Dahmer did horrific things to innocent young men!
There is no excuse for his actions. That being said, mental health is not an excuse but a hard reality for many.
Sadly there are many instances where mental health plays a key role and is often untreated but this does not lead to such extreme behaviors.
Thank you for this very interesting and informative video!
Apparently it can lead to extreme behavior. Do you ever watch the news?
Hi Dr, Das! I love your posts and your energy. The other day I saw a repeat of an interview between Jeffery Dahmer’s father and Oprah Winfrey.
I wondered if his father tried to direct Jeffs potential "desires" as a child by disecting animals. Perhaps having the same thoughts, he knew his son could have the same issues but was also exhibiting signs of mental instability (his mum was on serious drugs whilst pregnant with Jeff and the home discourse wouldnt have helped - also jeffs mother was not "present" in a maternal sense)
Unfortunately, it seems this only served to increase Jeffs desires and fascination with dead things- he didnt torture his victims per se, he drugged them then killed them and dismembered after death. As was pointed out, he needed to be mentally "numb" via drugs/alcohol himself to do these things. The acts of murder wasnt his motivation but having a body to "play"with was.
He was fascinated by the body and i cant help but wonder that, had this been directed into an occupation that he couldve thrived ie coroner or something and had the right mental health assistance, who knows how different this may have turned out.
None of this excuses what he did by any means! The saddest part of it all is that police didnt act sooner despite numerous tips and instances which resulted in many innocent people losing their lives.
He expressed not having belief in himself for a career like a coroner or something science based which is why he went to meat cutting/being a butcher but he’d often get fired for enjoying it too much I’m pretty sure. Since he was into necro though, idk how long he’d really last as a coroner before getting fired from that as well. Loneliness drove him in a lot of ways so I think no matter what, he would have ended up there
@@hp6964the forensic psychologist at his trial specifically said Jeff did not have necrophilia. I agree that loneliness was his biggest nemesis - and feeling unlovable. He also told the forensic psych that he never met a man that wanted to go on a vacation with him or be in a long term relationship…but then also admitted that he never put in the effort to facilitate one.
He was complicated - and the root of his issues were fear of abandonment and alcoholism (which was likely a symptom of child trauma of some kind IMO). Dahmer was a result of failures all around him. I think he could have been directed into taxidermy or mortician’s work as you said. And on his personal life, I think if he had developed interpersonal skills as a young adult instead of being allowed to begin drinking heavily at 14, he would have desired and developed a relationship.
thanks very much dr das, great video ✌
in couple of days netflix releases the dahmer tapes too which his lawyer recorded. more interesting than the series
Thank you so much for this very thorough video. Getting a real psychiatrist's input is beyond interesting and informative.
? BPD don't feel emotions deeply? I have BPD and have never heard anyone state this. In fact, it's the opposite. I've always been told by my treating psychiatrist that we experience emotions MORE deeply and intensely than non-BPD people, and literature supports this. Obviously only one of us here is a Dr and an expert and it ain't me, but I'm genuinely shocked to hear this and now I'm super confused!
💯 Absolutely agree with everything u said about those with BPD I have it too and also feel emotions very deeply Very sensitive too all Like they have always It's like having third degree burns everything single emotional can have a massive impact which causes us not been able to regulate them,Which them leads to impulsiveness and so on I've never heard the opposite of this
@@Delightful_Debi it was a very strange comment he made, I wondered if he might have made a mistake? It’s definitely established fact supported by peer reviewed literature and research that our emotions are intense. There’s even been research showing comparisons between our brains and non-BPD brains, so I reckon he’s made a mistake here. Bit weird he liked my comment but didn’t reply though.
Yeah i get confused when these people talk on BPD tbh. I used to think it could have applied to Dahmer because of attachment issues and pain/emotions associated when it's triggered. Other than that i don't really understand, there's not enough discussion from professionals about him.
The emotions do not hold but shifts fast for borderline.
Why would you assume he didn't? He was constantly numbing himself from everything and comes off as very dissociated at all times. Under the surface there was definitely volatile emotions, he was alexithymic, he couldn't recognise or process his own emotions to nearly the same degree as someone else. BPD isn't just one type of person, there's thousands of subtypes, especially when taking comorbidity into account.
In the US prosecutors think that everyone is sane and they can always find an expert to back that up.
Thanks doc, a good summary of this often contentious topic (for the general public). I think these differing diagnoses (eg prosecution vs defence) and the idea that alleged criminal/murderer can easily manipulate medical professionals cause many people to doubt whether someone is truly NCR (and/or their views on crime and punishment in general).
I'm curious as to your thoughts on Vince Li, the Greyhound killer who decapitated and partially ate poor Tim McLean (RIP) on a bus in Manitoba, Canada in 2008. His NCR, treatment and eventual release caused an uproar here.
Hi there
Hope you and all listeners are well, happy and prospering.
Well done
Don't let things bother you if at all possible.
Love from Va.
I haven't watched the video yet - just started - but have you ever watched behavioral arts and/or Behavior Panel channel on Dahmer? Will be interesting if your evaluation (that i am watching now) will match what they saw in his body language.
And one very important thing! As a child he was fascinated by Road Kill. And used to redesign them on the road.
Thank you for this video! So informative and interesting as always! Keep it up😊
Great presentation. The Dahmer case is a good illustration of the diagnostic problems involved as well as the disposition. I was wondering, though, what your thoughts are about "mentally ill but responsible for his/her actions". I was also wondering about psychopathy. He did have childhood indicators of sadism and lack of empathy. Personally, I think that he had a personality disorder as well as a broad swath of psychopathy. Neither of these would qualify as conditions that might make the individual unable to resist impulses to kill. So he might be "disturbed" but not "insane" - per the legal definition of insanity. I've just discovered your channel and plan to watch more of your presentations. They are very informative.
A very similar case in England was Dennis Nilsen, do you think they both suffered from the same problems?
I've always had questions about Jeffrey's dahmers father.. something about him just does not ring true to me.. not even sure why.. I think in part it's because he seemed to love the attention that he was getting by giving his interviews.. and he loved to promote the fact that they had a normal family I don't know.. I don't think this can be true and they're just seems something shady about his father.
This is the fist time I’ve seen someone else say this. I feel the same way!
Lionel Dahmer had violent fights with his wife. The family was not normal.
Currently binge watching app of your content. Absolutely amazing 🥳
There was a very similar case in the UK. Denis Nielsen.
The miniseries about him with David Tennant was really chilling.
He wasn't insane, just pure evil 😈
Get a Larger Shirt ,....oh wise one !!!
Why rehabilitate if you are not going to release?.....the answer to that is IF someone can be rehabilitated and to become aware of everything they do and effect on others aswell as self, then regardless of whether they are released or not, they should be rehabilitated. It's for their own growth . Everybody, including the worst of the worst, should have a right to Self Growth.
Or if someone is suffering from an illness of any kind, the right thing to do is treat it. He still has to pay for his crimes, but he shouldn’t be left to suffer from an illness, whether mental or physical just because he is never getting out of prison.
Yes but who is going to pay for it?
He had borderline personality disorder
Hi thankyou for doing this Channel, I find the working of the human mind so fascinating. The whole nature versus nurture debate or whether its a combination of both .
I have so many questions, you say psychopaths have to be charming yet people like Richard ramirez seemed odd rather than charming. I thought psychopathy was on a scale ? I find it so fascinating that certain jobs seem to attract more people higher up on the psychopathy scale. Do you believe the criteria for BPD is to wide as obviously you only have to meet 5 out of 9 criteria and there are over 200 + variations of these criteria? X
Sir, can you explain to me why did Dr Dietz say Jeffrey didn't have any mental illness when he actually diagnosed him with BPD and other disorders?
He definitely had that other stuff going on with him but IMO he was definitely autistic along with BPD. And it needs to be remembered that most autistic people and most people with BPD are nothing like him.
You need a theme tune! Thanks for the time taken to do these videos
That was fantastic…off to binge watch your podcasts now! Who needs Netflix pffft
That's fucked up. That Dr Diatz got it so right with Dahmer got it so wrong with Andrea Yates. Yates didn't deserve the scorn and punishment yet Dahmer almost got a Mulligan from others (Promising Young Man-wow)!
I’ve always assumed Dahmer’s proclivity for necrophilia was strongly rooted in sadism and a desire to utterly control others. I’ve always thought there are some psychological similarities between him, Ian Watkins, Saville, Cosby and Reynhard Sinaga, because they all seemed to gain pleasure through abuse of drugged and unconscious victims. In one sense, you can view necrophilia as being on the far end of the spectrum of that kind of psychology. Does that sound accurate, Dr. S?
Good and reasonable analysis. X
I was hoping you would cover this!
It seems like there should be a group that is impartial and can analyze the perpetrators without being tied to either the defense or prosecution. Like each trial gets the forensic psychiatrist and that’s the only one they get.
I truly appreciate that other countries recognize mental illnesses and place offenders in a place that may help them have a successful life once they've received treatment. There seems to be a much lower recidivism rate for those imprisoned in other countries. Personally, I agree that Dahmer wouldn't have a chance of rehabilitation.
However, in the US there really aren't institutions for perpetrators of crime that have underlying mental health disorders. Prisons in the US do not provide mental health care. Nor do they help with withdrawal even when it may cause the loss of human life.
My dad works in prison, they do have mental health care and most prisoners are on psychiatric meds. It’s just they’re usually not psychotic and they don’t fit the legal definition of insanity. The problem is that the quality of care isn’t the best and if they have substance use issues it’s very easy to get access to drugs in prison.
Dr Das? Have you given a review based on your experience about the film Promising Young Woman and compare it with the "Promising Young Man" as quoted for Dahmer?
I am no longer surprised when prosecutors are the authority on sanity, and find experts to agree, and defense are the experts on insanity, and find expects to agree; seems like you can buy an expert to agree with anything; doesn't say much for expertise, I guess they are just people who know something and are happy selling a commodity.
What I am surprised about is an algorithm is running our lives, an algorithm that has no margin for nuances, no concept of actual human differences and behaviour, no grey area where most of us live, just a blanket yes or no, I'm scared for the future.
The term insanity has a different connotation in a court than it does in society. All they have to prove in court is that he knew the difference between right and wrong but did it any way. Then he is legally sane. Doesn’t mean he isn’t mentally ill.
I just watched a crime show about this guy last night. His father spoke in length about Jeffrey which I found interesting.
Great vid but my opinion is you talk so fast that I almost feel out of breath! Would you be able to slow things down? It just seems so rushed and you have to get all the info in a certain period of time. Why are you rushing? Just my curiosity. Still a great vid as I said. Have a great day. Cheers! 😊🇨🇦
People need to stop giving him symaphty! He was not fit for society! Period! Show sympathty to the VICTIMS
He totally deserved his prison term! 100 percent but it doesn't mean he wasn't sick and also remorseful at the end of this life.
wow you’re very interesting to watch and to listen to man! cant wait to watch more
I appreciate that!
I love your comment near the end that we're getting tired. Never. Keep taking 😂
He was plugging his book on his son’s life and their relationship . I believe that in another interview with the father I was struck by the dad identifying his own violent fantasies being similar to Jeffrey’s.
I do not know if it has been investigated. Perhaps father may have groomed his son, sharing their fantasies. I don’t recall if father drank alcohol.
Father appeared dissociated in his interviews. Possible Folie a’ Deux? Father came across as being very close to his son and visited him in prison.
When you comment about wanting to take over the world it reminds me of friends of the B’hai faith using that phrase.
Finally, I am a licensed Marriage Family Therapist and Registered Art Therapist.
I find your personality so refreshing. I often watch your videos before going to sleep and yes, I bought your book on Kindle. So wonderful!
Love is definitely such an important component in the field of Mental Health and appreciate your passion for people.
I live in❤ in Southern California I would love to attend your lectures.
Naomi
How much does alcohol consumption effect diagnosis in UK vs US?
Jeffrey's family were not accepting/understanding of him being homosexual.
His father, (as well as grandmother, step-mother, possibly biological mother too), was very homophobic, thought homosexuality was "repugnant to God" and "something to be conquered".
From Lionel Dahmer's book, "...those aspects of Jeff's life that could not be reconciled with my continued hope that he had straightened out".
When the grandmother had found the male mannequin "...the hopeful period of Jeff's reformation was slowly coming to an end, that he was drifting downward again."
"...there was another report from West Allis. My mother called to say that Jeff was often away from home for long periods, sometimes whole weekends. His excuse was that he liked to roam a nearby mall, or that he had gone to Chicago to hangout for a while. More ominous from my mother's point of view was another incident. One morning, she had been on her way down the stairs when Jeff had abruptly called her to stop, "I'm not dressed", he'd told her and asked my mother to go back up the stairs."
"I also had to admit that there was a darker side to Jeff, though I didn't allow myself to consider where this darker side might lead. And so my life had become an exercise in avoidance and denial. I had grasped at every hope, evaded every unpleasant truth. In the months that followed, my conversations with Jeff continued on the same anaesthetized plane they'd been on since he was a teenage boy. We spoke but we did not converse. I made suggestions. He accepted them. He gave excuses. I accepted them. It was as if we had agreed to speak only in half sentences, communicating only what it was safe to communicate, and never moving to penetrate the wall that had come to exist between us."
The above (and there's more) was simply because Jeffrey was gay, something he was born with and couldn’t help. I can imagine him feeling suffocated and not in control. He told his probation officer that his father was controlling. His mother was absent (mentally, emotionally, physically), generally mothers are more accepting of their gay sons than fathers. In the Judge's words, "I think what we had is a homosexual, who could not accept he was in fact, a homosexual." Internalised homophobia. He told his army roommate who he abused, Billy Joe Capshaw, that he wanted to please his father. Jeffrey was projecting his frustration, shame/insecurity (including religious-related), wanting to be close and not rejected by family, and need for control...especially I think what he felt towards his father, onto his sexual partners/victims. A relationship with a consenting, living breathing human being could still risk his "own private little world" (of being gay) being exposed. I know many gay people had horrible parents back then, but Jeffrey seems to also have had a predisposition for mental illness and psychopathy.
Very helpful!
I would be interested in your take about Dahmer possibly having had Aspergers/ASD?
Sure but most people with that don't dismember and eat people!
@@evaschroeder4614 I agree with you (I have ASD) but it would be interesting to hear what Dr Das has to say about ASD possibly being one of the factors contributing to Dahmers personality that could have in part had an influence on his future behaviour xx
How can a sentence of sixteen life sentences be executed? You would have to trace all the criminal’s successive reincarnations, if such a thing even exists.
Great information. Dahmer plead guilty to all counts. His interviews are fascinating, but like most people, I just can’t fathom how anybody can do the gruesome stuff that Dahmer and Bundy did. Just subscribed!
Thanks for that, very fascinating 🧐
3:56 lol I was lost.
Dr … your camera is not focussed correctly … or something is causing your posts to be somewhat blurry. Thank you for your content.
JD may have had OCPD but *not* OCD.
Great analysis!
Really interesting insight about him 👍
I Wonder about Ted Bundy, this guy can't be "normal"
Very interesting. Thank you.The points brought helped me with so much I've wondering about!
So if someone has alcohol dependence does it that mean they are alcoholic? Once you are a alcoholic and have years and year of sobriety but still have cravings does that mean you still have alcohol dependence?
I am no expert, but imho abstinence evidences that you are no longer dependent on the substance so if someone abused alcohol (drank compulsively) and stopped giving into to their compulsions by abstaining from alcohol then they are no longer dependent on alcohol. I don’t agree completely with the AA idea of once alcoholic always an alcoholic, but it is useful in creating a mindset of vigilance for the person who did abuse alcohol before, that moderation is not an option for them and total abstinence is the best option for them going forward. How I see it, is that a person with a history of alcoholism (chronic alcohol abuse) have heightened susceptibilities/tendencies and alcohol can be a danger to them.
I love dr Gabors take on addiction. Drugs, alcohol, food is not addictive. The addict in fact has control….
@@heytigers3104 Thanks this makes a lot of sense to me. I have some family who are chronic alcholics.
thanks Dr. Das
I was diagnosed with bpd but I got help and I don't fear being alone abandonment. Also finding self worth in Jesus helped too. God approves of me and will never abandon me.
I am 815 👍.
Ist of all why does YT community have an issue with the word necrophelllia? Its a latin medical term that describes an action that not even an animal would perform. Yet human creatures do.
2nd of all I just stumbled upon your vid. Hope it keeps growning. I will be checking in.
Animals do commit necro. Mannn, does anyone here read?
Wait you said gave info on Necrophilia? We going to get that episode?
Is it "shmorgeshbord" or "shmorgesborg?"
And for the record, it's only the burgers with excessively watery tomatoes that eject shirt-ruining liquids everywhere.
Should have been sent to forensics he would have if he lived here he’d be a broadmoor legend
This has been pretty useful I’ve subbed 👍🏽 my older bro on my mums side I’m worried he will or already is an SK like Dahmer. He’s violent, paranoid, has no empathy or sympathy, has tortured and killed dogs, SA young boys, I found him on Grindr on my computer but he’s very openly homophobic and brags about attacking homosexual men and throwing them onto train tricks, using a BB gun on a cats eye, stabbing him self with a screw in the stomach just to see what would happen and he’s said he enjoys taking things of sentimental value to people especially of the object is from a deceased person they loved and he’ll put it in bins a couple streets away knowing they’ll never find it and he enjoys that power knowing he has the power to end that grief and restlessness of losing something that may have zero monetary value but is high in sentimental value. He’s bragged about stabbing a man and seeing a blue tent up around the outside of guys house where he collapsed after chasing him out and even smashing construction slabs on a man’s head to rob him in the middle of the night. I’m absolutely convinced he’s got bodies, I’ve told this to the met police so many times and they do nothing and say he’s lying to look good, my brother is 31 and has been this way since childhood, I’ve seen the bodies of dogs he’s beaten, gouged the eyes out of and gutted whilst the dog was still alive.
You are Delightful
🇨🇦♥️🇨🇦
Where’s the smorgasbord ?
The diagnosis of bipolar sounds kinda absurd, but schizotypal sounds very plausible or what we call psychotic personality structure. Just like Shipman, he was insane, but not insane enough so that he wouldn't be able to control his own actions and understand their meaning.
Cheers Doc. Interesting analysis. I remember him being arrested and seeing bits n pieces of the trial. Read nearly every book about him, but not seen the Netflix series, been told it’s gratuitous.
Any chance you could do a video on Richard Chase or Herb Mullin maybe? I recall Robert Ressler opining the former should’ve been in a psychiatric hospital initially. The latter I’m sure was in prison with Ed Kemper at some point, but surely seemed mentally ill, killing to prevent adverse weather events as I recall. Would be much appreciated if you could. Cheers!
Love your name!
@@APsychForSoreMinds
Well, that’s cool and all doc, but does that mean you’ll make the videos? Wanna know what you have to say about somatic and persecutory/paranoid delusions. Is there some kinda formal process for requests or do you you just do your own thing? Cheers!
I could barely click on this 1 cuz of how so so awful & devastating this man's crimes were & for the barely tolerable to even hear, much less comprehend of how his victims suffered. Just 🤮🤮. Uuuugh! His poor victims.
If he committed these offenses, he obviously could not control his impulses. Good grief!
I enjoy your podcast. I'm sure you've got this comment before. Whatever you are doing pushing a button in front of you is really annoying.
Dahmer was played by Quicksilver xD Well, I guess that's true, in some sense... :p
not only intelligent and funny but gorgeous... win win xxx
I wonder, if a hypersensitive Person, could be easily mistaken, with a Person, with Schizotypal Personality Disorder... ? 🤔🧐
Easily mistaken? Not likely. To be diagnosed, one would need to meet several criteria. Schizotypal includes things like paranoid thoughts, strange thinking and speech, social anxiety, strange beliefs or “magical” thinking, etc. To diagnose, a psychiatrist is looking for multiple symptoms and not just hypersensitivity.
@@scottcastro9383 I think you don't understand, what I meant with hypersensitivity. It's said that there are only 15% of the Mankind, with hypersensitivity existing, but the People who are affected, by it, think that it's just 3%. It also often includes social anxiety, very sharp senses, channeling other People's feelings, acting awkward to others, sometimes even complete, social Isolation, because many can't stand noises, you can feel other People's feelings, you are not just thinking that you can do it. This "just" and Hypersensitivity, don't fits together.“When you know that you are highly sensitive, it reframes your life. Sensitive people have to live differently in order to be comfortable.” - Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D.
@@Mr.Sp0cKYour definition of highly sensitive also sounds like on the spectrum or narcissist. It's the "im special" thing that pisses me off.
A tree?? Why? There’s the option of dinosaurs…
I really love your insights.Thank you. But....sometimes, after going through all the procedures and interviews, do you ever just feel like saying " He's as mad as a sack full of cats!" Particularly if you've not been able to diagnose a mental illness.😀
I love the question on the thumbnail : was Jeffrey Dahmer "unwell"? Well, I think we can say that, yes. 🙄🙄🙄 That's quite the british understatement! We might think that Dahmer was not "completely at ease". He might have experienced some "existential discomfort"... 😊
what were the genes and environment?
How could anyone do what Dahmer did, be sane?
We definitely do not need a bio pic movie on this person
He is played by Evan Peters.
There's no way he had OCD. People that have OCD hate intrusive thoughts. They don't thrive on them.
Does that mean he was sociopathic or psychopathic? Thanks.
Quicksilver has a weird character arch
I’m so glad that you done a video on this cause I feel like I’m surrounded by insane people who sympathise with him 🤮 Understanding is one thing, but sympathising?! Anyway! What diagnosis do you think he had, if any? Are you planning more videos on him? Cause it seemed rushed…But then you are very busy and I am grateful all the same. Us obsessed fans will watch regardless 😅
He mentions Dahmer’s diagnosis In like the first 45 seconds. Borderline personality, schizotypal personality disorder, psychosis, and OCD.
Then why are you here? Why are you so eager to know what’s wrong with him if you don’t care then why bother to watch these videos? People sympathize with him because he’s human and he was neglected and had a horrible childhood not because we are crazy or are trying to excuse his actions.
the real fact is that nobody knows anything about somenone's mind, there are many Psychiatrist around and each one of them have differente perspection about the reason why someone commits a crime like that , but the fact is nobody knows.
So if he wasn't insane he was just evil
My belief is that a lot of these killers are born bad.
But in dhamers case I do think mental and emotional illness and trauma influenced him so he was partially responsible for his actions but he also had mental illnesses and trauma that influenced him. I don't think he was skitzophrenic but I do think he definitely had some mental illnesses. And issues from trauma abuse. As a religious person I also think he suffered from demonic influence oppression/possession
In psychology, the word evil would mean dark triad personality disorders like psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder, and NPD for example
Hi. Thank You for interesting video.
Robert Ressler, the FBI profiler said as I know that Dahmer had Dissociative Disorder, not Dissociative Identity Dosorder, but just Dissociative... Maybe Depersonalization/Derealization...?
I don't know about Dahmer or Kemper, but as I've read about Richard (Rick) Chase case..., he had, I think Schizophrenia and shouldn't be executed...
Again... Thanks very much.
Yes the Netflix documentary was very interesting.Equally on you tube there are a lot of more things about him.
These including him talking and he seems so unlike a serial killer.
what netflix documentary?
Something that is never mentioned is that I think he had autism.
how some specialists could sayed that he has no mentall illness? are they crazy or what?
Genes, environment and stuff he had no control over in his past caused his issues.