I get my inspiration from watching JDFollowcCam on Maui. Lots of middle aged guys and gals riding non breaking waves, swell riding and gliding. Achievable things for me and I'm 65. IMO it's the best wing foiling motivation out there. And it's free! 🤙
Completely agree, I think this is along the lines of what Robbie Naish said by keeping winging pure and simple, and I think many brands are missing their core target market when using extreme tricks in their marketing campaigns.
Thanks for the comment, yes the sport is far from simple, that's OK, Golf if not simple either but many people try it. But if publish only pro stuff and act like only pros are new comers get scared away.
I totally agree with all your comments. Living in Hood River, we have a wide variety of people winging, but the trend is certainly aimed at the 16 yr old, not your average 54 yr old like myself. What was once a fun light wind sport is definitely accelerating into “if your board don’t sink, you stink” mentality. Just what happened to windsurfing in my opinion. Not sure how you stop this but, I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing.. having fun. 😀🤙🏼
Thanks I was there: the birth, the tech explosion and death of Windsurfing. Been there for Kiting. And now, Wingfoiling. The definition of insanity, is repeating the same mistake and expecting different outcome. At inland lakes (a huuuge portion of the USA continent), we have light winds. That should ring some bells with industry and media (most are the same actors from the previous two sports). If you keep shooting yourself in the foot, pretty soon you won’t have a leg to stand on. Low key clubs with shared gear, financed by the manufacturers, with dealer support and incentives at ground level are needed. So far, Locally, it’s a handful of middle aged dudes, and my wife. (And she’s the best rider).
I love foiling -- I have wind foiled and now I'm wing foiling and will be trying to learn how to flat water pump foil. I'm 73 years old (in 10 days) and my window of opportunity is closing so I'm throwing everything I've got, while I can, at these foiling sports. I was an avid windsurfer for 45 years and then I saw foiling and I was sold. I did live through a time (the early 1980s) when windsurfing was very accessible and popular (the equipment was rudimentary by today's standards but easy, relatively cheap and fun to use). By the late 80s the equipment got much more complicated and more expensive and I notice fewer and fewer people windsurfing, especially in cottage country -- your point, in my opinion, is right on the money -- the same mistakes are being made today with wing foiling -- KISS (keep it simple stupid!).
I got into windsurfing here on Maui from 1990, I think, till 1997... then and I don't know why... I drifted away. May be the same thing will happen with foiling, but not yet.
There are some important factors that may help the foiling market which are: a vibrant and growing used market (some good equipment at a fraction of the price); good "how to start" videos on RUclips (something windsurfing didn't have back in the 80s and 90s); and the possibility of sharing equipment through foiling clubs -- something Balz Mueller mentioned when you interviewed him about pump foiling. Armstrong seems to have caught on to the idea of more realistic advertising and hopefully other brands will too. Short video clips on RUclips of ordinary people out racing each other in lighter winds on lakes and having lots of fun will help -- it may not be as sexy as riding a ten foot wave in Maui but it will show that's there's more to the sport than just radical moves by young athletic bodies.
I think you are partly right. Gear wise I think there is a niche of expert level gear and still lots of very accisible learning gear. I,m 96kg and when I wanted a sinkerboard and went to the shop there were like 12 boards of 90l+ and they had to order my sinker... And the gear yes it is expensive, but there is plenty of 2th hand/ last years gear that is relative affordable. When selling stuff you are mostly selling a dream that people buy. When the see a pro doing crazy stuff they think hey if that is possible with it, my wiggle on the wave won,t be hold back my the gear. Young fit people in a short or bikini in the sun are way easier for the eye as an slightly overweighted middle aged (almost bold) man in a full suit on a brown lake with grey skies...so I can see why they advertise more on Maui as on lake shithole....but that doesnt mean that there shouldnt be a bit of balance in it to keep it real. So as the 49y old slightly too fat almost bald fart as describes as above I volunteer to come to Maui and do the photoshoots for the sake of more real advertising. even if needed in a bikini if that is necessary for a bit of equalism ;)
Great points, there are parallels with windsurfing for sure. I see all the tiny lunchtray boards, hard handles, aluula, booms and Super HA foils doing what cambers did for windsurfing, turning many people away.
I"m accustomed to advertising imagery and a company's desire to impress in a competitive market so I take it all with a grain of salt. I find I get my best information from videos like yours and the many others who contribute to the vast library of videos on the subject. I think RUclips is doing a lot for foiling that we didn't have back in the early days of windsurfing. It may be controlling the path as much as the companies are.
You have a great channel. Continue on your way to give more information to those interested. When you asked about the opinion of the viewers regarding a field of interest, I will surprise you with a statement given to me by a sports enthusiast for over 5 years. People are looking for warm water, vacation destinations without suits. I believe that soon you will start traveling more and more in desirable sites. It was very interesting to watch the exhibition. Good luck on this channel.
Hi. Good video and thoughts. I'll give the kite surf example. In the start say 20 years ago everyone could do it, enjoy and work on big jumps, the kites gave massive lift like the North Rhinos and Naish Ravens for example. Then all of a sudden everyone promoted unhooked useless circus tricks, all the young guys were trying to do that, the manufacturers went backwards and made kite for pop and slack as opposed to big airs. Competitions were purely focussed on unhooked tricks. Today with kite surfers maybe only 1 in 100 performs unhooked riding and most others are just going back and forth occasionally doing big jumps, which are very cool to me. With kite foiling then it became all about "racing" and alienated most because the best race foil is $4000, a quiver of race kites, say $15000 and a race board $2000 and you need to change your kites every season. Seems wing foiling is following although wings are much less than kites. Why do we turn these great freedom style sports into a competitions of racing or circus tricks. Looks at surfing world, example I'll give is Tom Curren a brilliant fluid and graceful surfer became known as "soul" surfer, he just wanted to ride waves for the pure enjoyment of surfing, so he moved away from competitions. Winging industry has a massive opportunity to focus on showing people that doing the sport for freedom, exercise, spirit, excitement and self esteem has incredible benefits for humans life. But they choose to turn it into a racing circus of competition. I love kite surfing, kite foiling and winging and do it for pure enjoyment, health and self improvement. Regards. PS: we definately need to be fairer regarding including woman in the sport as they would have a ball too.
I concur with your thoughts on the wrong image of foiling being directed towards a gear purchasing demographic that is likely not searching for that "extreme" experience. I know that's not my end goal. I also agree with the parallel you draw with windsurfing where the recreational player is only given high end, elite/pro level choices just to play around in their local bay. Keep the practical assessments coming. Thanks!
Totally agree. As an old windsurfer I move to Wing foiling by seeing a mix of really impressive video an also old people like me beginning the sport. The fact of seeing women practicing convinced me that you don't need a huge strenght.
Thanks for watching, yes absolutely once you over came the hurdles of learning the foil part this sport is very accessible and can be done in very light winds and not much strength is required
Completely agree! I am telling this since months...wingfoiling should come back to the simplicity that this sport had 3 years ago...one wing, one foil, one board and a lot of fun! I can understand that the brands want/must how good their stuff perform but I believe that they should create at least 2 'products line' and 2 marketing strategy in order to really address the correct people. I am 37, I am not interested in big jump and waves here in Italy where I live are bad but I want to go out with very light wind and I believe that there are a lot of people in my situation and only now I am seeing some push from the brands about light wind cruising...I really hope that the brands will not commit the same error of 'overcomplexity' made with the windsurf!
I second that. The beauty of this sport is its simplicity. And the unfortunate downside is its unaffordable for most. People will say , " oh just buy used gear " but in reality the used gear isnt quite affordable yet. I wish i could give gear away for free so more could try this amazing sport. Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching. The secondary market is quite interesting. I wonder how the gear is holding its value when the development is so fast. I have a 3 year old wing here for sale trying to get 150 bucks out of it. Nobody is interested.
@StandUpMagazin lack of supply is more of a reality for us. GOOD used gear is an issue. We are in canada paying top dollar for whats available. Again, great video as always, see you on the water!!!!
many good points. i think the biggest problem is the lack of good resources for beginners (like me). what is the right and realistic curriculum? What are the milestones? if I am new to foiling, what should I do first? how can I learn to foil without spending thousands of $$ on a boat or jetski? equipment failures are frequent, due to companies exploiting the hype, at the expense of the sport. Selling bulky inflatable boards to naive beginners is a crime against the sport. Used stretched out wings with crappy pull are frequent. Some poor quality foils should not be used by beginners either, like slingshot beginner foils. I think overall there is a lot of motivation in a lot of ppl, but I think >90% of ppl quit the sport if they try it once due to a variety of factors. Making the entry process dumber and more streamlined should reduce this percentage.
Seriously? I see loads of resources for beginners, such as the many RUclips tutorials on how to get started. Used gear is listed on most of the forums and FB marketplace. I think we have it easy these days.
Creepy man, like your shining a spot light on me. I use to surf when I lived by the ocean, use to kiteboard when I moved inland but sold gear during recession, looking for something new and fun on the water, and I’m … 52. Just jumped all in to wing foiling. Considered purchasing a subscription to, what is it wing magazine.. but I don’t want to read another magazine which is mostly adds or young dudes riding cool shit I’ll probably never be able to ride or air in this lifetime. Maybe I’m missing something there. Maybe you hit the nail on the head?
Aloha thanks for watching, LOL creepy right... I knew people like you ... and me on that note are out there. I keep hearing it over and over. Young guns push the limits old farts like us are the customers. Where is the middle ground?
Completely agree with your statement reg. the ads. But that's a very general issue with any kind of so called board sport and e.g. mountain biking too. Ordinary stuff seems just too boring and it's all about "getting some air".
Complicated question, this is exactly the same in other sports like kitesurfing. In kitesurfing I remember seeing a lot a wake style actions and today it is most big air actions but both are really very high level actions. I think you might be right but I imagine guys behind the magazine are just passionate by the most sporty part of wingfoiling. On social medias I see a lot of little waves prone foiling, dock starting and downwind sup foiling but I think this is because the algorithm understand what I like.
I definitely agree. I started windsurfing in the mid 80's when everyone from the broke student to the retired bloke could afford to get into it because gear was cheap and easy to ride as beginners. Today, guys on the water with recent windsurfing or wingfoiling gear are mostly between 40 and 50 years old and living comfortably off. And for sure those pictures are not representative of what's really happening on the water. We kinda flip through the pages with no real interest.
Very Interesting. I am 52 years old and I would like to see other things in content. Good places in my area to do wingfoiling, to know how deep is my nearby lake or lagoon, which is the best place to enter the sea on a specific beach, which places have life guards, forecasts, spots with rental of gears and prices, etc...
I think most guys on the water are motivated to try things by the other guys they see on the water at their local spot above anything else, and there are so many videos on yt showing a whole range of levels I think the problem comes down to the brands and reviewers of the kit not being honest about the limitations and advantages of the kit. I see so many guys at the beach buying this and that to try and progress their level because a guy in a video has told them its the holy grail. Then in a few months time theres another lot of kit to give you a solution the other stuff didn't, very few people are saying just get used to what you have. The best advice i have had is from a local shop, he was not trying to sell me the sexy new sinker board and the fastest carbon foil to start with, he wanted me to buy the kit that was going to give me the best chance of success which ultimately has kept me in the sport, these are the people that need to be heard
agree with your comments... one point to note.. RUclips is still filled with people exploring the low wind barrier... I watched a great video yesterday of a 200lb guy exploring not just low wind (8-10 knots) but playing with improving his technique to get onto a slightly smaller wing... Average Joe on a 7m... Keener Joe on a 5m.... Super Joe on a 4m... something for everyone.
thanks for your comment, that actually sounds super interesting. Sadly we dont have much low wind here on Maui. Maybe I need to make a video on when its too much wind.
i started wing foiling at 51 last year in UK - wanted to try something new (only ever done paddleboard before) - not into big waves and jumps - just cruising about - loads of guys near me similar age (and some women too which is great ) Need to keep it all simple - it can get very confusing with all the different gear and terminology
Thanks for watching. Stoked you agree. Keep it simple is key to grow the sport and when you progress you be inclined to see how a different set up feels.
Agree this is Windsurfing 2.0. I did live through it as a kid. Magazines were filled with young beautiful people and rapid gear innovations. And before you knew it, the base was gone. I am in my 50s, and am often the youngest person at a US windsurfing launch site unless someone moved here from Europe. Winging has changed my local landscape. My local site is filled with people of all ages, and women again. It is amazing. This is because they come from windsurfing, kite boarding, and wake boarding backgrounds. It is fun as we are all learning together. But, you are right. Gear is not cheap going out of date very fast and resale prices are plummeting. If not careful, history will repeat itself. The one big difference is light air performance and thus more days to get on the water. I am not sure if this phenomenon can be prevented, but the industry should take note.
Thanks for watching and sharing. I also like how foiling brought many people from other sports together. We even see surfers foiling and some of them even wing. We have not see this with other wind sports. Stoked you go into it. ALOHA!
I agree 100% with your comments about foiling magazine. I don't subscribe because it doesn't offer me interesting content. I'm 70. Learning winging has been a great adventure and I think both more accessible and safer than kite foiling or kiting in general. It has been expensive, but particularly because the sport is so new and good second hand great was in short supply: hopefully that will improve. I do think there is some great content on RUclips which is aimed at the average person, male and female. The more the manufacturers do to demystify their range of products in their advertising material, the better (especially the foils!). But then how often do you see a car advert that says anything useful...
Great video yes you're right, I was a windsurfer for 27 years then went on to kite surf for another 14 years and saw how both sports got very expensive now, I,m trying to learn wing foiling but the biggest problem in the UK is the cold water, and the fact that the wind is not very reliable and if like me I live a long way from suitable water then it takes a very long to improve traveling to and from water longer than time on the water plus long spells between sessions doesn't help
I do agree with all points and it's not often that people scrutinize the marketing-situation at all. On the other side, it is the very basic foundation of advertising: To sell dreams and imaginary situations. Look at the car brands or any other product. Nothing is close to reality or picture the „reality“ of the product. I’m not sure if advertising would work if the would show the average Joe foiling on a brown lake. Being the middle-aged person myself I don’t wanna see dudes my age foiling on toilet-water-lakes. I wanna be the young badass foiler who’s ripping in torquoise-colored waves and do stellar jumps. Most likeley it’s not going to happen, but having the imaginary connection to those images/brands gives me some of that feeling. Which is the principle of marketing. Maybe I’m too prone to advertising, but I can defo see why it is like it is. The fact that the sport is too complicated to overview, gear-wise, is absoluteley right, but if you go to the shop and get a proper guiding by shopmen you will end up with a really good and usually „affordable“ set for your first year of winging. Every brand is striving to be the best in every field and since the whole physics is way more complicated that just surfing or windsurfing or kiting, there is no single can-do-all-best piece of equipment. Tho I’d love to see it happen. Looking at the facts named above plus the insane pricing makes me on one side totally mad, on the other side I have to admit that I’m glad that the sport is not accessible to anybody. It sounds like I’m a total prick, but look at what kiting has done to so many spots in Europe. I’m a kiter myself but the accessability of kiting hasn’t done too much good to watersports. Imagining having the spots overcrowded with beginner foilers or advanced overconfident foiles gives me the shivers. Finally, the very HUGE mistake the industry is making, is the lack of presence of women in the ads. Women usually feel intimidated by the forces and complexity of the sport, but usually are way more open to new things. Have a look at the Windsurf- or SUP-Lessons at most of the stations: More women than men! Also, if you look at the men-women-ratio on the beaches of maui, you will often see more women on the water foiling than men. And they are ripping. So, yeah, tricky subject, but criticizing that marketing is trying to sell you things which are far away from reality is a little bit odd since we all know it, but also fall for it all the time. great talk tho!
Thanks you so much for the lengthy comment great points you have. It’s great to see so many people relating to this and having their own experiences. 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Good points! Beginner, flatwater and female foiling should be showcased way more. Foiling magazine seems like 50% ads and 50% "articles" that read like sponsored ads. They never say anything negative about a product. You get barely any objective information that could help with a purchasing decision. I guess that's the only way they can make money with it currently.
through a forum a whole bunch or people replied that choice of beginner winging equipment came from local shop or local beach. Those moving to advanced stuff ask locals and try their gear, or go to reviews and techy explanations. Photo shoots of hot shots have little effect as those guys are so talented they could wing anything, but guess the marketing guy has to do something
Look at high performance dinghy racing, we went asymmetric the boats that were ‘just’ able to sail on apparent wind like the D-One were still interesting as they are tactical, faster boats Moths etc just bang a corner and massive costs. Dinghy sailing for the masses had gone back towards slower or interesting tactical boats (look at the number of OK Dinghy racing in Europe and the draw that has on the top sailors. Winging could as you say take SUP in the same direction as Windsurfing and sinkers. Some are missing out huge skill building blocks, surely the learning process should be along the lines of iSUP, Hardboard, downwinding & surf SUP depending on location then transition to winging once skill level there?
Thank you so much for the contribution. Very interesting comparison, I never thought of dinghy racing. I think you are right we should look at other sports and see how they paint an image for the consumers. I would stay in the action sport genre and maybe look at mountain biking, snowboarding and so on...
Total agree. Keep it simple please for the growth of the sport. I love all the photos of the big air freestyle but that is out of touch with the normal wing foiler.
I’m an old guy who likes small waves. Started with little to no wind sports experience. If I can do it, anyone can do it, but only if one can afford the equipment.
That is not easy. I also wanted to start with foils. But even as a beginner in the sport I felt like I was back in the worst days of windsurfing. Expensive - as you say -, complicated - always "tinkering hour" first - and especially in Germany a lot of traveling to get to the spots. The fact that photos of the "unattainable" are shown in the mags is also a motivation. You can see how it can go wrong the other way around in the SUP. Only boring photos are published here. As a result, many Germans don't know what to do with freestyle, downwinder and SUP surfing, let alone that they even know that these disciplines even exist. So it's the middle ground that needs to be found. Because as you say: A teenager can neither buy clever foil material nor a good SUP board. That's mainly done by people aged 30-40. There's the money, but also for the kids. It has to be a mixture: showing what is possible and what is being done. But let's face it, the surfing industry has always managed to ruin a sport. Whether windsurfing, kite surfing, stand up paddling and - in the same theater - now foiling. You don't learn from the mistakes of the last 40 years. And therefore always the same mistakes that you address correctly.
Thank you so much for your input. I like the motivation part, after all you want to show whats possible and where the limits are and push them. Just need to find a middle ground I guess.
I'm the Sales/Brand Manager at Windance in Hood River and we don't ever put people on boards that are not correct for them or even hint at the story "if you're board don't sink, you sink." That's the first time I've ever hear of that phrase. 😂 Yes, you do see more families riding together and younger people are gravitating to it more than kiteboarding and windsurfing combined that's for sure. That might be some of the optics you're seeing. Ripping dad or mom with totally ripping kids with hella small boards. See lots of those combos lately... Plus, due to the location of the Gorge the decent size swell and water current; this allows riders to have a choice to have a sinker that works 80% of the time. Many other riding locations that would not be possible without be a superstar. Our story at the shop is buy a large board for dual purpose use. This allows added life span to your first large liter board then just ditching after a month or so of progression. Pretty much anything over 110L is going to be great downwind sup and wing foil board to start with. We want our customers to be riding but also empowered them to take it to the next level so everyone at the shop does their best to recommend the best experience for the individual not the industry.
Hood River is a Unicorn. There’s 3000 miles of inland continental USA. Inland lakes in summer get frontal driven breezes. 5-15 if you’re lucky. Sometimes stronger, but usually this is on the spring/fall shoulder seasons, which calls for more dedication. It’s why we leave the Midwest late summer to visit HR, or Hatteras late autumn/early spring.A dedicated/addicted few still ride locally 10 mos when there isn’t ice covering the water. I was there for the birth, tech explosion, and death of Windsurfing. WF is on the same tried and true trajectory. Same companies, same media people, same strategies, and thus far the same progression is occurring (so how does one expect a different outcome?) Early WS had low expectation mobile subscription clubs. All ages and sexes were involved, and had fun in marginal conditions. The quality of riding, equipment and conditions were secondary to the experience and socializing. Many members had no money/transport/storage for gear… but the clubs allowed inclusion and participation. Some of us were motivated to higher skills and gear. Many moved on to other things once the clubs disappeared.
The time and expense commitment for most people to get to the level that they are promoting is huge, people need gear that is easy to use, easy to setup, is to upgrade and is affordable. The industry will kill itself if start changing standards every 6 months, the consumer will get frustrated if the go into a shop one year after buying a setup and the brand they bought has changed everything and they can't get different front wing to advance their skill level without spending $4000 instead of $300.
People also look f1 car races and end up driving maximum 130kmh in most highway in Europe, even If they have a sport car.... Foil Magazin is same, it sell dream that you could reach or not depending on your motivation and other factors....
Nice video, but tons of material on the second hand market right now with the way the sport is developing. You can pick up some very nice boards to begin with. The learning curve is very quick. But what I don't like is the guy or girl in just shorts or a bikini. That foil is sharp as a knife! I use helmet and impact vest, cant afford to get injured. So in one way I agree, we are seeing all the high end jumps waves etc. Should get back to basics.
I think the reality is that if you go to a demo, you will not find many small boards. They are pushing big boards hard. Magazines are nice, but I have never seen a hard print Foiling magazine on the shelves locally. Content is coming through guys like us and the audience is consuming it online. Popularity is driven by searches. So a channel like Gwen and Damo's that targets new riders is huge and the high production value content out of the major brands rarely tops 10,000 views. Windsurfing content was driven by the brands and funneled through print media.. It was the only source. Now I can watch 100 different guys teaching me how to get on foil. It is much harder to sell a used sinker since half the guys riding them are sponsored. Put a big board for sale at a competitive price and it will go quick. They know the market. They produce and sell way more of the big stuff and push the dream of youth, beauty, and excitement. At 50, I walk the line between both worlds you describe. No way I can keep up with the current trick progression though. Insane how good younger riders are getting. I still feel like a rockstar on a 4 foot wave.
Thanks for watching and the comment. You are spot on. Its all online... I am a bit sentimental with print and produce a magazine twice a year. But the content is more timeless and lifestyle rather than product driven.
@@StandUpMagazin I still love magazines myself. There is nothing like the effort they put into something that is, as you say, timeless. I grew up in the height of magazines. There used to be 10 magazines for every niche. Book stores had expansive collections of hard to get magazines for every hobby. I love it, but those days are slipping into the past. Thanks for carrying the torch! 🤙
partly agree but here are some points against it You get the best information by talking to the good wingers on the beach instead of being fed by the media and advertising many have forgotten how to inform themselves Mags and social Media first want the most important currency “your attention” Beginner sets don't pay the money 1.5k for a beginner set 2k for a Carbon Foil Developments in the high end level also improve beginner's material
Every sport always showcases the best of the sport. Never the intermediate and that`s how marketing works. You are blown away by what the Pro`s are doing and try to learn at least a little bit of the trade, knowing you will never reach the top. But that`s totally okay, because we all know it.
Thank for your comment, yes and no... windsurfing lost customers that way and imploded, but yes sports always display to best of the best but I feel in other sports the companies are catering well to beginners. Particularly technical sports like trend sports with high performance should think of that for their advertising campaigns.
@@StandUpMagazin I totally agree to your point on who is the average customer for wingfoiling companies is. I am not up to date with every wing company today, but I have the impression that you will always find a beginner friendly allrounder. I just ordered the Gong Wing Plus that like that I would say and looking to kiting, Duotone Neo I would say is the beginner kite for many kite schools to learn.
50 years on this planet is on the horizon for me, and the corner of the foiling world that attracted me was older guys getting obsessed about pumping and learning to dockstart... Skiing, mountain biking, and climbing have gone through the same treatment as foiling is seeing now... young male daredevils get the press while women and "soul" riders tend to get pushed to the background. There is a pushback in skiing and mountain biking where ski touring and bike packing are getting press on the adventure side of the sports. More women are getting press in mountain biking, and we're starting to see First Nation representation as well. There are more interesting stories to tell than "I landed a double backflip"... There's an ethics issue too, particularly with mountain bike events like Red Bull Rampage where barely insured young men risk eating through a straw for the rest of their lives for sponsorship money. You better hope you have a good announcers voice if you can't move your legs. There are lots of good stories to tell in the foil world. I think they will come once the gold rush is over.
You know I thought about the $$$ barrier to this sport (DW winging for me). A bro deal setup is $3,000-. Ok but look at other sports and the clothes, equipment AND… the lift tickets! A MotoX is $8k, a Mountainbike is $6k, golf clubs and the associated course fees, sports (other than ball sports) are uber costly. Look back at your first used foil gear and you’re under $2,500.
Thanks for watching. I also publish a print magazine, the content that goes on paper is rather timeless than momentary trends and products. I see it more like a history book and people collect them and then look back some day. This way we document the progress of the sport and its protagonists.
Downwind boards allow the older guy to play this game… if he’s got bank. They need to back off on carbon and tech. My new board is epoxy & fiberglass. Kill me now!
Hey thanks for watching. Get bank is right but if you want to paddle alight board that is strong I am afraid the carbon ones are the best. Maybe epoxy as alternative?
This is just wrong. Professional athletes getting magazine shots is pretty much the job, saying it's unachievable is quite literally the point. They are PRO. Imagine looking at a street skateboard magazine and complaining there isn't enough cruiser board content for normal people. Looney
I get my inspiration from watching JDFollowcCam on Maui. Lots of middle aged guys and gals riding non breaking waves, swell riding and gliding. Achievable things for me and I'm 65. IMO it's the best wing foiling motivation out there. And it's free! 🤙
Completely agree, I think this is along the lines of what Robbie Naish said by keeping winging pure and simple, and I think many brands are missing their core target market when using extreme tricks in their marketing campaigns.
Thanks for the comment, yes the sport is far from simple, that's OK, Golf if not simple either but many people try it. But if publish only pro stuff and act like only pros are new comers get scared away.
I totally agree with all your comments. Living in Hood River, we have a wide variety of people winging, but the trend is certainly aimed at the 16 yr old, not your average 54 yr old like myself. What was once a fun light wind sport is definitely accelerating into “if your board don’t sink, you stink” mentality. Just what happened to windsurfing in my opinion. Not sure how you stop this but, I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing.. having fun. 😀🤙🏼
Hi Mike, thank you so much for watching and validating my points. I guess we just continue to watch where this thing is going.
@@StandUpMagazin we’re along for the ride lol 😂
@@mikeinhoodriver yeah totally. BTW hope to make it too Hood this year for one of the events.
Let me know, love to meet up @foilhoodriver
Thanks
I was there: the birth, the tech explosion and death of Windsurfing. Been there for Kiting.
And now, Wingfoiling.
The definition of insanity, is repeating the same mistake and expecting different outcome.
At inland lakes (a huuuge portion of the USA continent), we have light winds.
That should ring some bells with industry and media (most are the same actors from the previous two sports).
If you keep shooting yourself in the foot, pretty soon you won’t have a leg to stand on.
Low key clubs with shared gear, financed by the manufacturers, with dealer support and incentives at ground level are needed.
So far, Locally, it’s a handful of middle aged dudes, and my wife. (And she’s the best rider).
I love foiling -- I have wind foiled and now I'm wing foiling and will be trying to learn how to flat water pump foil. I'm 73 years old (in 10 days) and my window of opportunity is closing so I'm throwing everything I've got, while I can, at these foiling sports. I was an avid windsurfer for 45 years and then I saw foiling and I was sold. I did live through a time (the early 1980s) when windsurfing was very accessible and popular (the equipment was rudimentary by today's standards but easy, relatively cheap and fun to use). By the late 80s the equipment got much more complicated and more expensive and I notice fewer and fewer people windsurfing, especially in cottage country -- your point, in my opinion, is right on the money -- the same mistakes are being made today with wing foiling -- KISS (keep it simple stupid!).
Aloha, thank you so much for watching and validating my point. We all love new sports but how can we get new people if the bar is so high already.
I got into windsurfing here on Maui from 1990, I think, till 1997... then and I don't know why... I drifted away. May be the same thing will happen with foiling, but not yet.
There are some important factors that may help the foiling market which are: a vibrant and growing used market (some good equipment at a fraction of the price); good "how to start" videos on RUclips (something windsurfing didn't have back in the 80s and 90s); and the possibility of sharing equipment through foiling clubs -- something Balz Mueller mentioned when you interviewed him about pump foiling. Armstrong seems to have caught on to the idea of more realistic advertising and hopefully other brands will too. Short video clips on RUclips of ordinary people out racing each other in lighter winds on lakes and having lots of fun will help -- it may not be as sexy as riding a ten foot wave in Maui but it will show that's there's more to the sport than just radical moves by young athletic bodies.
I think you are partly right.
Gear wise I think there is a niche of expert level gear and still lots of very accisible learning gear.
I,m 96kg and when I wanted a sinkerboard and went to the shop there were like 12 boards of 90l+ and they had to order my sinker...
And the gear yes it is expensive, but there is plenty of 2th hand/ last years gear that is relative affordable.
When selling stuff you are mostly selling a dream that people buy.
When the see a pro doing crazy stuff they think hey if that is possible with it, my wiggle on the wave won,t be hold back my the gear.
Young fit people in a short or bikini in the sun are way easier for the eye as an slightly overweighted middle aged (almost bold) man in a full suit on a brown lake with grey skies...so I can see why they advertise more on Maui as on lake shithole....but that doesnt mean that there shouldnt be a bit of balance in it to keep it real. So as the 49y old slightly too fat almost bald fart as describes as above I volunteer to come to Maui and do the photoshoots for the sake of more real advertising. even if needed in a bikini if that is
necessary for a bit of equalism ;)
Great points, there are parallels with windsurfing for sure. I see all the tiny lunchtray boards, hard handles, aluula, booms and Super HA foils doing what cambers did for windsurfing, turning many people away.
Thanks for watching. I hope we will see some more beginner friendly content and brands realizing to cater more towards the average rider.
I"m accustomed to advertising imagery and a company's desire to impress in a competitive market so I take it all with a grain of salt. I find I get my best information from videos like yours and the many others who contribute to the vast library of videos on the subject. I think RUclips is doing a lot for foiling that we didn't have back in the early days of windsurfing. It may be controlling the path as much as the companies are.
Thanks for watching. Totally I watched so many learning videos in the beginning and shared my story of learning. Need to do this again.
You have a great channel. Continue on your way to give more information to those interested. When you asked about the opinion of the viewers regarding a field of interest, I will surprise you with a statement given to me by a sports enthusiast for over 5 years. People are looking for warm water, vacation destinations without suits. I believe that soon you will start traveling more and more in desirable sites. It was very interesting to watch the exhibition. Good luck on this channel.
Thank you very much for your kind words. I will try to keep it up with a much content as possible.
Hi. Good video and thoughts. I'll give the kite surf example. In the start say 20 years ago everyone could do it, enjoy and work on big jumps, the kites gave massive lift like the North Rhinos and Naish Ravens for example. Then all of a sudden everyone promoted unhooked useless circus tricks, all the young guys were trying to do that, the manufacturers went backwards and made kite for pop and slack as opposed to big airs. Competitions were purely focussed on unhooked tricks. Today with kite surfers maybe only 1 in 100 performs unhooked riding and most others are just going back and forth occasionally doing big jumps, which are very cool to me. With kite foiling then it became all about "racing" and alienated most because the best race foil is $4000, a quiver of race kites, say $15000 and a race board $2000 and you need to change your kites every season. Seems wing foiling is following although wings are much less than kites. Why do we turn these great freedom style sports into a competitions of racing or circus tricks. Looks at surfing world, example I'll give is Tom Curren a brilliant fluid and graceful surfer became known as "soul" surfer, he just wanted to ride waves for the pure enjoyment of surfing, so he moved away from competitions. Winging industry has a massive opportunity to focus on showing people that doing the sport for freedom, exercise, spirit, excitement and self esteem has incredible benefits for humans life. But they choose to turn it into a racing circus of competition. I love kite surfing, kite foiling and winging and do it for pure enjoyment, health and self improvement. Regards. PS: we definately need to be fairer regarding including woman in the sport as they would have a ball too.
Thanks for the great comment did not know about the kite world. Seems like same principals in place everywhere.
Fantastic! Super helpful thanks!
Instagram has tons of women foiling/surfing/wind-surfing/kite-boarding
Thanks for the comment. Glad you like it! 🤙🏽
I concur with your thoughts on the wrong image of foiling being directed towards a gear purchasing demographic that is likely not searching for that "extreme" experience. I know that's not my end goal. I also agree with the parallel you draw with windsurfing where the recreational player is only given high end, elite/pro level choices just to play around in their local bay. Keep the practical assessments coming. Thanks!
Thank you so much for watching and validation. 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Totally agree. As an old windsurfer I move to Wing foiling by seeing a mix of really impressive video an also old people like me beginning the sport. The fact of seeing women practicing convinced me that you don't need a huge strenght.
Thanks for watching, yes absolutely once you over came the hurdles of learning the foil part this sport is very accessible and can be done in very light winds and not much strength is required
Completely agree! I am telling this since months...wingfoiling should come back to the simplicity that this sport had 3 years ago...one wing, one foil, one board and a lot of fun! I can understand that the brands want/must how good their stuff perform but I believe that they should create at least 2 'products line' and 2 marketing strategy in order to really address the correct people. I am 37, I am not interested in big jump and waves here in Italy where I live are bad but I want to go out with very light wind and I believe that there are a lot of people in my situation and only now I am seeing some push from the brands about light wind cruising...I really hope that the brands will not commit the same error of 'overcomplexity' made with the windsurf!
Thanks for watching.... right wing foiling was supposed to make bad days good. Now we are getting confused on what gear to use in what conditions.
I second that. The beauty of this sport is its simplicity. And the unfortunate downside is its unaffordable for most. People will say , " oh just buy used gear " but in reality the used gear isnt quite affordable yet. I wish i could give gear away for free so more could try this amazing sport. Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching. The secondary market is quite interesting. I wonder how the gear is holding its value when the development is so fast. I have a 3 year old wing here for sale trying to get 150 bucks out of it. Nobody is interested.
@StandUpMagazin lack of supply is more of a reality for us. GOOD used gear is an issue. We are in canada paying top dollar for whats available. Again, great video as always, see you on the water!!!!
many good points. i think the biggest problem is the lack of good resources for beginners (like me). what is the right and realistic curriculum? What are the milestones? if I am new to foiling, what should I do first? how can I learn to foil without spending thousands of $$ on a boat or jetski?
equipment failures are frequent, due to companies exploiting the hype, at the expense of the sport. Selling bulky inflatable boards to naive beginners is a crime against the sport. Used stretched out wings with crappy pull are frequent. Some poor quality foils should not be used by beginners either, like slingshot beginner foils. I think overall there is a lot of motivation in a lot of ppl, but I think >90% of ppl quit the sport if they try it once due to a variety of factors. Making the entry process dumber and more streamlined should reduce this percentage.
Thanks for the input. I am working on that I know a guy that is just starting to foil on borrowed gear. I will have him on soon.
Seriously? I see loads of resources for beginners, such as the many RUclips tutorials on how to get started. Used gear is listed on most of the forums and FB marketplace. I think we have it easy these days.
@@robadair 100% we just wonder why the industry not on the same page as it seems.
Creepy man, like your shining a spot light on me. I use to surf when I lived by the ocean, use to kiteboard when I moved inland but sold gear during recession, looking for something new and fun on the water, and I’m … 52. Just jumped all in to wing foiling. Considered purchasing a subscription to, what is it wing magazine.. but I don’t want to read another magazine which is mostly adds or young dudes riding cool shit I’ll probably never be able to ride or air in this lifetime. Maybe I’m missing something there. Maybe you hit the nail on the head?
Aloha thanks for watching, LOL creepy right... I knew people like you ... and me on that note are out there. I keep hearing it over and over. Young guns push the limits old farts like us are the customers. Where is the middle ground?
Completely agree with your statement reg. the ads. But that's a very general issue with any kind of so called board sport and e.g. mountain biking too. Ordinary stuff seems just too boring and it's all about "getting some air".
Thank for the comment, yes thats it, I was just saying a comparison to other sport like mountain biking would be interesting.
Complicated question, this is exactly the same in other sports like kitesurfing. In kitesurfing I remember seeing a lot a wake style actions and today it is most big air actions but both are really very high level actions. I think you might be right but I imagine guys behind the magazine are just passionate by the most sporty part of wingfoiling.
On social medias I see a lot of little waves prone foiling, dock starting and downwind sup foiling but I think this is because the algorithm understand what I like.
Very good point. I think I need to look more at online media. Print seems clearly not representative.
Same as all mags be that surfing, windsurfing, motorcycling, mountain biking etc.
Thanks yes good point.
I definitely agree. I started windsurfing in the mid 80's when everyone from the broke student to the retired bloke could afford to get into it because gear was cheap and easy to ride as beginners.
Today, guys on the water with recent windsurfing or wingfoiling gear are mostly between 40 and 50 years old and living comfortably off.
And for sure those pictures are not representative of what's really happening on the water. We kinda flip through the pages with no real interest.
Thanks for watching and validating my point. I always try to tell stories people can relate to or draw inspiration.
Very Interesting. I am 52 years old and I would like to see other things in content. Good places in my area to do wingfoiling, to know how deep is my nearby lake or lagoon, which is the best place to enter the sea on a specific beach, which places have life guards, forecasts, spots with rental of gears and prices, etc...
Yeah! Thanks for the comment. I agree.. more local info and maybe stories on travel and spot reports
I think most guys on the water are motivated to try things by the other guys they see on the water at their local spot above anything else, and there are so many videos on yt showing a whole range of levels
I think the problem comes down to the brands and reviewers of the kit not being honest about the limitations and advantages of the kit. I see so many guys at the beach buying this and that to try and progress their level because a guy in a video has told them its the holy grail. Then in a few months time theres another lot of kit to give you a solution the other stuff didn't, very few people are saying just get used to what you have.
The best advice i have had is from a local shop, he was not trying to sell me the sexy new sinker board and the fastest carbon foil to start with, he wanted me to buy the kit that was going to give me the best chance of success which ultimately has kept me in the sport, these are the people that need to be heard
Thanks for sharing. Great sales person. First success is the most important.
agree with your comments... one point to note.. RUclips is still filled with people exploring the low wind barrier... I watched a great video yesterday of a 200lb guy exploring not just low wind (8-10 knots) but playing with improving his technique to get onto a slightly smaller wing... Average Joe on a 7m... Keener Joe on a 5m.... Super Joe on a 4m... something for everyone.
thanks for your comment, that actually sounds super interesting. Sadly we dont have much low wind here on Maui. Maybe I need to make a video on when its too much wind.
i started wing foiling at 51 last year in UK - wanted to try something new (only ever done paddleboard before) - not into big waves and jumps - just cruising about - loads of guys near me similar age (and some women too which is great ) Need to keep it all simple - it can get very confusing with all the different gear and terminology
Thanks for watching. Stoked you agree. Keep it simple is key to grow the sport and when you progress you be inclined to see how a different set up feels.
Agree this is Windsurfing 2.0. I did live through it as a kid. Magazines were filled with young beautiful people and rapid gear innovations. And before you knew it, the base was gone. I am in my 50s, and am often the youngest person at a US windsurfing launch site unless someone moved here from Europe. Winging has changed my local landscape. My local site is filled with people of all ages, and women again. It is amazing. This is because they come from windsurfing, kite boarding, and wake boarding backgrounds. It is fun as we are all learning together. But, you are right. Gear is not cheap going out of date very fast and resale prices are plummeting. If not careful, history will repeat itself. The one big difference is light air performance and thus more days to get on the water. I am not sure if this phenomenon can be prevented, but the industry should take note.
Thanks for watching and sharing. I also like how foiling brought many people from other sports together. We even see surfers foiling and some of them even wing. We have not see this with other wind sports. Stoked you go into it. ALOHA!
I agree 100% with your comments about foiling magazine. I don't subscribe because it doesn't offer me interesting content. I'm 70. Learning winging has been a great adventure and I think both more accessible and safer than kite foiling or kiting in general. It has been expensive, but particularly because the sport is so new and good second hand great was in short supply: hopefully that will improve. I do think there is some great content on RUclips which is aimed at the average person, male and female. The more the manufacturers do to demystify their range of products in their advertising material, the better (especially the foils!). But then how often do you see a car advert that says anything useful...
That is so awesome that you are getting into it. On digital media there is more beginner stuff for sure. Thanks for watching.
Great video yes you're right, I was a windsurfer for 27 years then went on to kite surf for another 14 years and saw how both sports got very expensive now, I,m trying to learn wing foiling but the biggest problem in the UK is the cold water, and the fact that the wind is not very reliable and if like me I live a long way from suitable water then it takes a very long to improve traveling to and from water longer than time on the water plus long spells between sessions doesn't help
Thanks for watching. Favorable conditions definitely help to learn quick. Maybe summer time is better?
I do agree with all points and it's not often that people scrutinize the marketing-situation at all. On the other side, it is the very basic foundation of advertising: To sell dreams and imaginary situations. Look at the car brands or any other product. Nothing is close to reality or picture the „reality“ of the product. I’m not sure if advertising would work if the would show the average Joe foiling on a brown lake. Being the middle-aged person myself I don’t wanna see dudes my age foiling on toilet-water-lakes. I wanna be the young badass foiler who’s ripping in torquoise-colored waves and do stellar jumps. Most likeley it’s not going to happen, but having the imaginary connection to those images/brands gives me some of that feeling. Which is the principle of marketing. Maybe I’m too prone to advertising, but I can defo see why it is like it is.
The fact that the sport is too complicated to overview, gear-wise, is absoluteley right, but if you go to the shop and get a proper guiding by shopmen you will end up with a really good and usually „affordable“ set for your first year of winging. Every brand is striving to be the best in every field and since the whole physics is way more complicated that just surfing or windsurfing or kiting, there is no single can-do-all-best piece of equipment. Tho I’d love to see it happen.
Looking at the facts named above plus the insane pricing makes me on one side totally mad, on the other side I have to admit that I’m glad that the sport is not accessible to anybody. It sounds like I’m a total prick, but look at what kiting has done to so many spots in Europe. I’m a kiter myself but the accessability of kiting hasn’t done too much good to watersports. Imagining having the spots overcrowded with beginner foilers or advanced overconfident foiles gives me the shivers.
Finally, the very HUGE mistake the industry is making, is the lack of presence of women in the ads. Women usually feel intimidated by the forces and complexity of the sport, but usually are way more open to new things. Have a look at the Windsurf- or SUP-Lessons at most of the stations: More women than men! Also, if you look at the men-women-ratio on the beaches of maui, you will often see more women on the water foiling than men. And they are ripping.
So, yeah, tricky subject, but criticizing that marketing is trying to sell you things which are far away from reality is a little bit odd since we all know it, but also fall for it all the time.
great talk tho!
Thanks you so much for the lengthy comment great points you have. It’s great to see so many people relating to this and having their own experiences. 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Good talk Mike!
Thank you Steve 🤙🏽 we miss you guys here at the boot show
You are spot on 🤙
Thank you so much for your comment. I am so stoked to get so much validation and people sharing their thoughts.
Good points! Beginner, flatwater and female foiling should be showcased way more. Foiling magazine seems like 50% ads and 50% "articles" that read like sponsored ads. They never say anything negative about a product. You get barely any objective information that could help with a purchasing decision. I guess that's the only way they can make money with it currently.
Thanks yes. Tricky one can’t bite the hand that feeds you.
through a forum a whole bunch or people replied that choice of beginner winging equipment came from local shop or local beach. Those moving to advanced stuff ask locals and try their gear, or go to reviews and techy explanations. Photo shoots of hot shots have little effect as those guys are so talented they could wing anything, but guess the marketing guy has to do something
Thanks for watching. Spot on on the gear progression.
Look at high performance dinghy racing, we went asymmetric the boats that were ‘just’ able to sail on apparent wind like the D-One were still interesting as they are tactical, faster boats Moths etc just bang a corner and massive costs. Dinghy sailing for the masses had gone back towards slower or interesting tactical boats (look at the number of OK Dinghy racing in Europe and the draw that has on the top sailors.
Winging could as you say take SUP in the same direction as Windsurfing and sinkers.
Some are missing out huge skill building blocks, surely the learning process should be along the lines of iSUP, Hardboard, downwinding & surf SUP depending on location then transition to winging once skill level there?
Thank you so much for the contribution. Very interesting comparison, I never thought of dinghy racing. I think you are right we should look at other sports and see how they paint an image for the consumers. I would stay in the action sport genre and maybe look at mountain biking, snowboarding and so on...
Total agree. Keep it simple please for the growth of the sport. I love all the photos of the big air freestyle but that is out of touch with the normal wing foiler.
Thank you very much for your validation. Yes nice pix but not for normal people.
I’m an old guy who likes small waves. Started with little to no wind sports experience. If I can do it, anyone can do it, but only if one can afford the equipment.
Thanks for watching. Stoked to see how many people can rely to this. I know this stuff is not cheap.
That is not easy. I also wanted to start with foils. But even as a beginner in the sport I felt like I was back in the worst days of windsurfing. Expensive - as you say -, complicated - always "tinkering hour" first - and especially in Germany a lot of traveling to get to the spots.
The fact that photos of the "unattainable" are shown in the mags is also a motivation.
You can see how it can go wrong the other way around in the SUP. Only boring photos are published here. As a result, many Germans don't know what to do with freestyle, downwinder and SUP surfing, let alone that they even know that these disciplines even exist. So it's the middle ground that needs to be found. Because as you say: A teenager can neither buy clever foil material nor a good SUP board. That's mainly done by people aged 30-40. There's the money, but also for the kids.
It has to be a mixture: showing what is possible and what is being done.
But let's face it, the surfing industry has always managed to ruin a sport. Whether windsurfing, kite surfing, stand up paddling and - in the same theater - now foiling.
You don't learn from the mistakes of the last 40 years. And therefore always the same mistakes that you address correctly.
Thank you so much for your input. I like the motivation part, after all you want to show whats possible and where the limits are and push them. Just need to find a middle ground I guess.
I'm the Sales/Brand Manager at Windance in Hood River and we don't ever put people on boards that are not correct for them or even hint at the story "if you're board don't sink, you sink." That's the first time I've ever hear of that phrase. 😂 Yes, you do see more families riding together and younger people are gravitating to it more than kiteboarding and windsurfing combined that's for sure. That might be some of the optics you're seeing. Ripping dad or mom with totally ripping kids with hella small boards. See lots of those combos lately... Plus, due to the location of the Gorge the decent size swell and water current; this allows riders to have a choice to have a sinker that works 80% of the time. Many other riding locations that would not be possible without be a superstar. Our story at the shop is buy a large board for dual purpose use. This allows added life span to your first large liter board then just ditching after a month or so of progression. Pretty much anything over 110L is going to be great downwind sup and wing foil board to start with. We want our customers to be riding but also empowered them to take it to the next level so everyone at the shop does their best to recommend the best experience for the individual not the industry.
Awesome thanks for the comment. Sales people are at the forefront of it all such an important job!
Hood River is a Unicorn.
There’s 3000 miles of inland continental USA.
Inland lakes in summer get frontal driven breezes. 5-15 if you’re lucky. Sometimes stronger, but usually this is on the spring/fall shoulder seasons, which calls for more dedication.
It’s why we leave the Midwest late summer to visit HR, or Hatteras late autumn/early spring.A dedicated/addicted few still ride locally 10 mos when there isn’t ice covering the water.
I was there for the birth, tech explosion, and death of Windsurfing.
WF is on the same tried and true trajectory.
Same companies, same media people, same strategies, and thus far the same progression is occurring (so how does one expect a different outcome?)
Early WS had low expectation mobile subscription clubs. All ages and sexes were involved, and had fun in marginal conditions. The quality of riding, equipment and conditions were secondary to the experience and socializing. Many members had no money/transport/storage for gear… but the clubs allowed inclusion and participation.
Some of us were motivated to higher skills and gear.
Many moved on to other things once the clubs disappeared.
The time and expense commitment for most people to get to the level that they are promoting is huge, people need gear that is easy to use, easy to setup, is to upgrade and is affordable. The industry will kill itself if start changing standards every 6 months, the consumer will get frustrated if the go into a shop one year after buying a setup and the brand they bought has changed everything and they can't get different front wing to advance their skill level without spending $4000 instead of $300.
Fully agree. You grow out of the beginner equipment so fast and then have to upgrade all the time.
So on Point 🙇🏻♂️
Thank you very much for watching and your comment.
True with that "not cheap" statement. Just spent another 2k€ because the whole foil broke out of my foil box and vanished after the 10th session...
Thanks for watching. Oh gosh that sucks. The whole thing sunk? Did you hit the reef?
@@StandUpMagazin no I did not hit anything. It just broke away during driving. Probably defective material...
@@matija3791 that sucks. Sorry to hear that
@@StandUpMagazin it's ok and it's still worth it for sure :)
People also look f1 car races and end up driving maximum 130kmh in most highway in Europe, even If they have a sport car....
Foil Magazin is same, it sell dream that you could reach or not depending on your motivation and other factors....
Thanks. Yes they sell dreams but careful on putting the dream too far out of reach.
Nice video, but tons of material on the second hand market right now with the way the sport is developing. You can pick up some very nice boards to begin with. The learning curve is very quick. But what I don't like is the guy or girl in just shorts or a bikini. That foil is sharp as a knife! I use helmet and impact vest, cant afford to get injured. So in one way I agree, we are seeing all the high end jumps waves etc. Should get back to basics.
Thanks. Yes I also learned on 2nd hand gear. Now it seems the market is flooded. I can’t even get 100 bucks for 3 years old wing…🧐
I think the reality is that if you go to a demo, you will not find many small boards. They are pushing big boards hard. Magazines are nice, but I have never seen a hard print Foiling magazine on the shelves locally. Content is coming through guys like us and the audience is consuming it online. Popularity is driven by searches. So a channel like Gwen and Damo's that targets new riders is huge and the high production value content out of the major brands rarely tops 10,000 views. Windsurfing content was driven by the brands and funneled through print media.. It was the only source. Now I can watch 100 different guys teaching me how to get on foil. It is much harder to sell a used sinker since half the guys riding them are sponsored. Put a big board for sale at a competitive price and it will go quick. They know the market. They produce and sell way more of the big stuff and push the dream of youth, beauty, and excitement. At 50, I walk the line between both worlds you describe. No way I can keep up with the current trick progression though. Insane how good younger riders are getting. I still feel like a rockstar on a 4 foot wave.
Thanks for watching and the comment. You are spot on. Its all online... I am a bit sentimental with print and produce a magazine twice a year. But the content is more timeless and lifestyle rather than product driven.
@@StandUpMagazin I still love magazines myself. There is nothing like the effort they put into something that is, as you say, timeless. I grew up in the height of magazines. There used to be 10 magazines for every niche. Book stores had expansive collections of hard to get magazines for every hobby. I love it, but those days are slipping into the past. Thanks for carrying the torch! 🤙
@@foilfanatic thanks. I just think some stories and pictures are so valuable that they must live in the physical world rather than digital.
partly agree but here are some points against it
You get the best information by talking to the good wingers on the beach instead of being fed by the media and advertising many have forgotten how to inform themselves
Mags and social Media first want the most important currency “your attention”
Beginner sets don't pay the money 1.5k for a beginner set 2k for a Carbon Foil
Developments in the high end level also improve beginner's material
That is true in many ways. Thanks for watching 🤙🏽
Word!
Thanks
Every sport always showcases the best of the sport. Never the intermediate and that`s how marketing works. You are blown away by what the Pro`s are doing and try to learn at least a little bit of the trade, knowing you will never reach the top. But that`s totally okay, because we all know it.
Thank for your comment, yes and no... windsurfing lost customers that way and imploded, but yes sports always display to best of the best but I feel in other sports the companies are catering well to beginners. Particularly technical sports like trend sports with high performance should think of that for their advertising campaigns.
@@StandUpMagazin I totally agree to your point on who is the average customer for wingfoiling companies is. I am not up to date with every wing company today, but I have the impression that you will always find a beginner friendly allrounder.
I just ordered the Gong Wing Plus that like that I would say and looking to kiting, Duotone Neo I would say is the beginner kite for many kite schools to learn.
@@StandUpMagazin Do you have the impression other companies don`t have beginner friendly wings anymore?
@@FoilingPastor Hard to say. Over all it feels more like an arms race to who can ride the smallest gear.
@@StandUpMagazin I guess sportive people get easily bored and are always looking for new challenges.
50 years on this planet is on the horizon for me, and the corner of the foiling world that attracted me was older guys getting obsessed about pumping and learning to dockstart... Skiing, mountain biking, and climbing have gone through the same treatment as foiling is seeing now... young male daredevils get the press while women and "soul" riders tend to get pushed to the background.
There is a pushback in skiing and mountain biking where ski touring and bike packing are getting press on the adventure side of the sports. More women are getting press in mountain biking, and we're starting to see First Nation representation as well. There are more interesting stories to tell than "I landed a double backflip"...
There's an ethics issue too, particularly with mountain bike events like Red Bull Rampage where barely insured young men risk eating through a straw for the rest of their lives for sponsorship money. You better hope you have a good announcers voice if you can't move your legs.
There are lots of good stories to tell in the foil world. I think they will come once the gold rush is over.
Thanks for watching and the interesting comment. I will make an effort to show case average guys like us
You know I thought about the $$$ barrier to this sport (DW winging for me). A bro deal setup is $3,000-. Ok but look at other sports and the clothes, equipment AND… the lift tickets! A MotoX is $8k, a Mountainbike is $6k, golf clubs and the associated course fees, sports (other than ball sports) are uber costly. Look back at your first used foil gear and you’re under $2,500.
thanks for watching, you got a good point. Other sports equipment is also expensive.
@@StandUpMagazin love your channel.
@@henryhester1897 thank you so much. That is really encouraging. 🤙🏽🤙🏽
or no one buys the magazines......
Thanks for watching. I also publish a print magazine, the content that goes on paper is rather timeless than momentary trends and products. I see it more like a history book and people collect them and then look back some day. This way we document the progress of the sport and its protagonists.
Cutty on the shoulder, dodge the barrel. Seems it would get boring after a while.
Exactly.. and thanks for watching.
Downwind boards allow the older guy to play this game… if he’s got bank. They need to back off on carbon and tech. My new board is epoxy & fiberglass. Kill me now!
Hey thanks for watching. Get bank is right but if you want to paddle alight board that is strong I am afraid the carbon ones are the best. Maybe epoxy as alternative?
@@StandUpMagazin mine is epoxy 😉
This is just wrong.
Professional athletes getting magazine shots is pretty much the job, saying it's unachievable is quite literally the point. They are PRO.
Imagine looking at a street skateboard magazine and complaining there isn't enough cruiser board content for normal people. Looney
Hey stoked you finding this video. Love the point you are making. That was the whole point having a healthy discussion. 🤙🏽