therapy session about downwind boards
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2023
- sometimes you just have to talk it out.
I didn't feel like doing THAT unboxing video.
I didn't feel like doing a video on my first session.
and before I knew it, I was 7 sessions in.
paddling. winging. waves. flat.
with multiple sessions under my belt, I just have to talk about it. I'm processing information. so this video is self-psychotherapy and y'all are my therapists. thanks for listening.
new board specs:
7'2" long, 20.25" wide, 107L volume
1675 APF pump foil
202 pump tail
795 mast
I've been waiting for this!
Congrats on the board! I have run into the same problem though I'm planning to build my own this coming season with an old foil track I saved from a previous board. I probably will only be using it for light wind as it seems that's all I get here haha. Stoked to see how this plays out.
nice dude! I'd say go narrow, even my 20.25 feels a little plump. but it's gonna be an interesting journey... LMK if you have any questions before you start your build!
Great vid man, great to see your progress on the dw journey!
Weeeee! Thanks so much bud and I wish you an awesome day!!
Thank you. I tried a DW board only once, and I wasn't too excited about it. But thanks for your ideas; the reasons expressed would be my reasons. You got me back into being interested. One comment about age and health... REALLY, I am 60 now, and I tended to overestimate myself. I paid the price (and sometimes I'm still paying it). What helped me was breaking down my sessions into shorter ones. When I realized (I couldn't believe it) that my hips ached from winging and my knee was weakened from too much backpressure, I changed my stance more frequently and adjusted the foil. It helped, and the harness also helped me a lot. In your case, it would take the pressure off your arms and chest and distribute it to your back, so maybe you consider that. All the best.
sup bud! stoked if you took anything helpful away from this! yeah I've injured myself multiple times now winging, mostly preventable, and fixable by tweaking my technique. shoulder, elbow, forearms, now my clavicle/SC joint. I kinda feel like these are from overuse and riding powered a lot. not to mention countless bruises, a concussion, and a few stitches. but this injury is def is a reason to get into using a harness. I'm reminded of a yoga teacher that told me when I first started "your body is your best teacher" and I cursed them at the time cause I thought I was invincible back then, I curse them now cause they were soooo right! thanks for the comment bud, I wish you an awesome weekend!
In the same boat. Thanks for the thoughts.
Ps your music is a little loud. harder to hear you. :)
and thanks about the music! I take that seriously and appreciate the feedback!
good luck bud!! oh what a long strange trip it's been...
My wife and I just started winging this summer and have found your videos really helpful for the right spots in the Boston area! At first our biggest wing was a 5 and this summer there wasn't often enough wind for us with that as newbies so we added a 7m Nova light wind. If you are still playing around with different light wind wings in addition to the downwind board and you are interested you are welcome to take it for a spin some time.
sweet bud! thanks for this offer! I'm totally interested in the Nova, it's been on my list for a long time! Where have you guys been out mostly? PBay? you look familiar... pretty sure our paths have crossed. make sure you say hi next time you see me! I wish you both an awesome weekend! wind looks good!!
Yeah mostly pleasure bay, dabbled with a few other spots but the flat water is what we need for now. I haven't spotted you there yet even if you did see me, but whenever I do I'll come introduce myself!
Great Vid as always J Man, hope you heal quickly…. Autumns usually a great month for wind 🌊🏄🏽♀️
yeeeooowww! thanks monkey man! I feel like it's already getting a little better, I just gotta try to not F it up any more! fingers crossed. we had sick waves this past weekend and I rode for a few hours and it didn't make anything noticeably worse. phew. but make sure you shred it extra hard cause I can't :P I wish you an awesome day!!
DW boards are the best thing that ever happened to my foiling journey. In addition to every discipline you mentioned that DW boards will help to improve, up here in Maine, we use these boards to slide onto standing river waves and foil for hours, basically staying in one spot. The second I heard you mention Nahant, I knew you were a “local” foiling fiend. Great video! Hope to bump into you some time!
hey bud, thanks for the comment! are you down in MA often? this past weekend was pretty killer, one of those days... standing waves sounds fun... take me with you!?!
Welcome Jeremy, we are the same gear now! Love the Armie DW board and REALLY love my 1675 with the pump tail, get's up so easy and pumps like a dream!
Yes!! I’m stoked. I’m working through the injury right now but so excited to paddle again. I’m so close. The pump tail def got me the closest… almost there. Surfed small waves with it recently and it was sweet.
Heal up quick man. Windy wave session season is ahead !
thanks bud! btw this Sunday is a "Nahant" day.
Live in Zurich, there are a bunch of almost new DW boards flooding the second hand market right now (mostly from wingers)…
This is a great video. Exact process I am going through right now.
Thanks bud! It’s such a complicated process. For whatever it’s worth, I got a 107L 7’2 and I like it but many days I wish I went a little bigger for the paddling. I still haven’t been able to paddle up to foil on the flat. Its exposed so many gaps in my skills. Totally humbling. But I’m a persistent mofo and gonna tackle it hard in 2024. Let me know what you end up doing. And I wish you an amazing 2024!!
It‘s great to see you so determined to learn flatwater starts, Jeremey! I‘ve been working on flatwater starts this summer as well. It hasn’t been easy and I‘m still at very large front wings but it’s fun and very addictive.
DETERMINED!!! Seriously it’s the main reason I wanted to get one, but I know I’ll use it for winging more. But I’ve had about 6 sessions so far, getting better, dialing in all the different variables. This video started at 25 min and I cut it down to 12… and I took out a whole part about paddling on the flat, how close I’ve come, how I got on foil twice and my legs just stopped pumping. I think with the shim I add next sesh will be the thing that will get me up more. But it’s so funny finding all your flaws… I had two friends give me “pointers” in my last sesh, every one was legit but when I’m doing it it’s still very chaotic and it’s hard to make little adjustments. I just can’t wait to see more progression. Persistence. I got it. 😜👊
I’m 68kg 85L dw 1675 with 180red shim, still can’t paddle u at flatwater , i will try change to 202tail no shim next time.
Btw the 1675 +140-180 for winging downwind it’s awesome, crazy low stalls speed really big help for me on my local very slow windbumps and swells, even 5knot wind I have great fun with this setting to wing around and using little swells power … I’m already forgotten my small front wing…
Been putting off DW board. Have tried with winging, which is great for getting up- but I am a little bothered by the swing weight. I’ll get into the paddle mix eventually- but I am healing up too from what I think is trying to wing too much on light days. Loving all the content Jeremy.
yeah tell me about it. this video started at 25 minutes long and there's so much I cut out. but I tried hard to fight the dw but the more I did, the more appealing it became. I think depending on which one, swing weight isn't as bad as you think. the hard part is figuring if you want to try padding with it or mostly wing. if mostly wing, go small and you'll be stoked no matter what. but finding that right size to paddle on so it's not too difficult but not huge for winging... it takes reflection and is a partial gamble no matter what. for whatever it's worth, I'm 5'10-ish and 170lbs-ish and the 7'2 feels totally fine, I tried to wing a 7'10 Kalama and it didn't seem too long at all.
bummer about your wing-jury! I need to see if I can get my thoughts together to do a video on my recent injury. it wasn't from a specific incident, so I feel like it's from riding powered up with big wings all the time. sucks to have to dial it back a little, but better now than potentially having to sit out much longer in the future! heal quick my friend, and I wish you an awesome weekend!
The armi 1675 is a sweet foil. My friend and board builder Saveo has just bought one .
The dw board will open up some sessions for sure, especially those light wind days
The whole board buying thing has my head done in as you know .
At least you made a choice in just over a month I've been deciding 6 months now, and I'm still procrastinating 🙃 😊.
The wing up wi d then paddle downwind is something people are into around here .
Sorry to hear about the chest problems hopefully exercise and stretching will get you back to full fitness 💪. Old age is a battle as you say, trying to be healthy keep fit is a challenge defanatly i try to do a bit most days even if its just home gym . I think not a week passes without me having some kind of pain or niggle this week it's my ankle but stretching fir me helps but yes older age sucks .
Another fantastic video mate have a great weekend speak soon
awww thanks so much Chris! I'll tell you what... friend to a friend, the dw stuff is cool, maybe even inevitable, but not necessary. I think the desire to flatwater paddle up on top of light wind winging is what drove me to get one. but the flatwater stuff is HARD, at least for me at first it is. so if you don't have a desire to do that, simple a big foil, like the APF, will get you out in the light stuff and you don't really need one. the APF is great but HUGE and a beast to turn. all that being said, I sold my foil SUP to get the dw board, and I paddled a few waves with it yesterday and man it's def an upgrade from my old foil SUP... so that's a sliver lining that I also appreciate. winging up and paddling down still doesn't interest me, but ask me next month, lol. thanks bud, I hope the fall continues to deliver for you! I wish you an awesome week!
Ah! I missed this! Congrats on the new board! I LOLd when you said it highlighted your pump game. I had EXACTLY the same thing happen.
You've already been given loads of advice but my three tips would be:
1); don't underestimate how addictive DW foiling is. 😅
2) when paddling up, keep the paddle stroke forward - think 'nose (of board) to toes (feet)' That's where the power is.
3) I can DW and it's taken a lot of effort but I love it for being hard both mentally and physically. If you are time crunched, a Foil Drive would make the whole process way way way more enjoyable (and I'm even considering getting one, for specific reasons.)
Number 2… this is a great reminder. I’ll focus on this next time. I’m still struggling but getting there. I can kinda get off the water but then my legs always F up the pump. But focusing on #2 may fix a problem I’m having with my front foot lifting/moving when paddling hard. Stoked to try that. Thanks bud!
Very nice as always, great content discussed. For me I don't think I have anywhere to go on a downwind run, it would be a couple of times per year 😊
yeah totally, it's the one thing I'm not 100% sure I'm gonna get into. we will see but I def bought the board more for the other reasons, and so far it's been a total learning experience. and I'm cool with that. I hope yr getting good winds where you are, and I wish you an awesome day wherever that is!
great info . thanks
You bet! glad you dug it and I wish you an awesome day!
Nice overview, my friend just got a downwind board, which means I'm about 2 months away from it!
thanks bud. it's a trip... you get to try all your foil/stab/mast/mast-track/shim combinations again... never gets old. let me know when you get one, and I wish you an awesome weekend!
For downwinding on the East Coast, I ride on SE or NNE days and follow the swell along the coast. Swell out there can be head high and super fun. I dip into the surf zone over and over as I progress down the coast. So it is the best of surf foiling and downwinding. I started DWing with a wing. Lately, I go with a sinker and a Foil Drive to get up. It is like prone foiling for an hour straight. Give it a shot. Super fun. 🤙 Foil Drive is a good option to relax the upper body and help work on pump and free foil skills.
awesome to hear this, thanks for leaving this nugget! were are you located? my bud has the foil drive. he's been leaning into it hard, love it. I figured I'd try all this for a while and see what I can do on my own, and then figure out what parts are the most important to me and I think you are right, the foil drive does make that downwinding look super appealing for someone like me with limited experience. I'd love to try it on my sinker. you got my wheels turning, I super appreciate that!
I am down in Melbourne Beach...this is the Wing Kook. The fact that I bought this think in May and have renamed the channel ought to tell you how hard this thing hit me. I am riding it daily in the the cleanest conditions you can imagine. With no wind, the waves are glassy. I use it to pop up on the wave, then it is like prone foiling. I either pump back out to connect or motor back out to the outside. So fun! For Downwinders, it just makes it easy. Look at a few of my most recent shorts, you will see the difference it made in my pump and surf foiling skills. Great piece of gear.
I should add that once you embrace the Foil Drive, you will get rid of the DW board immediately. A prone board with a Foil Drive is way more fun than those bulky things. Smaller more fun foils too!
@@foilfanatic William! It's you!! lol. that's awesome. you are the 1st person to turn me on to foil drive :P I've been watching your videos, you def make me into it. I'll try the dw board for a while but I'm sure as soon as I try my friends, there will be more seismic shifting in my brain. stoked to see yr still ripping on it, and ripping harder. I always watch your vids, keep 'em coming!
I hope this is hidden deep enough. No matter our age we get strained and hurt and need to take a break but we can't. Gotta be in on the water. Foil drive is where its at. Glassy flat water not so much fun but any wave or ripple that you can turn off of can be big fun plus it increases your foiling skills especially pumping. Do I envision waterways packed with noisy electric motors? I hope not . Get it while you can, life is short.
I broke down and picked up a Armstrong and it really is a game changer to get out in lite air, not happy on what they cost but do love it, went with 121 litres and I weigh 190lbs….use it it with my CF 2050. & MA 1750. On a 795 mast , 70 cm fuse.
I thought about that 121 so hard! I do weigh about 20lbs less than you, so the 107L is good but I really considered that 120. I've only used that APF, mostly cause I wanna dial in where my feet go, how to pump, etc. so 8 sessions in and I haven't ridden anything else, but I'll do that in the next few sessions. how is it with those other big foils? have you been paddling it too? and I'm jealous of that 70 fuse... I'm highly considering grabbing a used v1. it must make that pump feel so good!
I had similar emotions on going with the 135 liter board, I haven’t paddled it and probable should have gone with a 135 for that, but opted for more of wing set up
@@deanmayke6959 I think you should be able to paddle it up to foil with a little practice. I believe in you! but it's humbling for sure.
I bet
Dude- once you are able to stay up on foil on a DW run for 2 miles or more at a time it will be your favorite thing!
I hope I get there bud! Def humbled, in a good way. I gotta dial in that pumping!
I ask myself the same questions....thanks Jeremy
You are welcome! I wish you an awesome day!!
Down here in Aruba and looking forward to pick up a DW board soon. It’s seeming like a mission to get one here for the same shop reasons.
I have tried one and it seems to open up a lot more possibilities with lightwind winging, but deff wanting to give DW supfoiling a go.
I was on a 7.0 FFB board and it was surprising how short it felt even for being a way longer board than I’m used to (it felt shorter than my 4,8 wingboard).
yeah the shipping is insane. I got one shipped to me via airport freight, so it was only $100 and I could pick up at the airport, which is 10 min from my house. I'm not sure they can do that internationally, but they may be able to!
I rode a friend's 7'10 and it actually felt short. crazy how it flips your mind like that. super cool. I wish you an awesome day bud down in Aruba! I have a friend down there right now :)
@@OCEANBOUND1 yeah about the dame here, about $150 in shipping to the forwarder and then over to here is another fee 😬.
Awesome! Did he bring down his gear? Might be some fun wind later this weekend
@@JasonPeterson86 he did bring his gear! he's a foiler, his name is Jamie if you ran across a random Bostonian this weekend!
@@OCEANBOUND1 awesome! Will be on the lookout 🙌🏼
Completely agree with this. There's a time and a place for downwinding. Ice cold water with 20+ lbs of wetsuit and ppe on you, shoulders gassed, by yourself on a grey winter day when there's wingable waves on tap is not that time. Flat water pop up and pump/paddle training is a great way to keep the foil balance and pump muscles going on days where you don't have time for winging. And as oceanbound said, most pure wingers don't know how to pump. I thought I did for years, letting go of the wing at high speeds or even getting whips off the ski and porpoising until I slowed down fooled me into thinking I could pump. It's not until you red line your arms and legs getting the dw sup flying and then realize you need to adjust your feet and try to continue to pump and very slow speeds that you figure out a good technique. The loss of front foot pressure when winging is most likely due to the extreme drag on these pump foils, you'll notice a hard stall as you slow down. The front foot pressure seems to be there when flat water pumping high on the mast.
Oceanbound, are you getting the dw board flying? I'm old and heavy. But finally figured it out this summer. I find my front foot needs to be several inches further forward than where it would be winging the same setup. And once up I need to pull my front foot back a couple inches for optimal pumping. I also find there's a point where you have to hit the nos button. I like 5 or more strokes up to speed, then kill it jumping and paddling 100% which should lead to takeoff. Keep in mind that a board coming up and stalling is not a takeoff, you actually want to keep pushing the nose down and paddling until you're up to a nice pumping speed. 5-10 more strokes for that. Also gives you time to move your feet without having to get right into pure leg pumping.
what's up bud! I love this comment, thanks so much. I can only say now, with more certainty, that I still completely suck a pumping!! I was paddling yesterday on some waves, and got to pump back out for the first times ever after completing the wave ride... only to find my body just gets quickly out of sync and I with fall or come off foil. plus I'm really struggling to get used to turning on this massive APF wing without having a little wing to balance myself in. I love it all. it's all stuff I want to work on. and you nailed it, we get this false sense that we can pump when we are on a wave and winging, but this dw stuff is great at pointing out your flaws!
so stoked to hear you've bene making progress. I basically got this board and the week later my doctor told me to dial things back a bit. I feel like I am super close paddling up to a pump, I'll get it in the next few sessions. I'm just giving my injury a little time before I hit it again with intensity. all your advice makes sense, thank you! and great to hear about that crazy front foot pressure and then having to move your foot back is a thing for other people! totally something I can get used to... I just need to practice.
seriously, loved this comment. thanks bud, I wish you an awesome day!!
I have the same board, really looking forward to future videos and thoughts.🤙I'm planning on winging and flat water paddle ups on the hot summer no wind days.
edit: Do you use a board rail guard to protect from paddle strikes?
sup bud! I've done a bunch of sessions on that board, but many have made it to the channel. the flatwater paddle sessions have been frustrating, I'm still not up on foil but it's been a while since I've tried. I'll get there, I'm persistent, but it's taking more than I thought it would. once I crack the code I'm sure I'll cover it, but most paddle sessions are boring and not worth editing and it doesn't feel so much like I'm learning, more like flailing around in the dark. I don't feel like I have anything to say about it at this point, when I do, you'll know.
re: rail guards - I thought about it. I've had one in my Amazon fart for a while but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I'm not really hitting the board much and the construction seems pretty good... famous last words I suppose. but I just haven't noticed any damage so far so I take that as a good sign.
thanks bud I wish you an awesome day!
The analysis paralysis will drive you insane! lol
lol INSANE! at least I'm on the other side of the decision. I wish you an awesome weekend bud!
I see downwinding block to PJ becoming a thing... IMHO I'm going to get a DW board long term but not to go smaller with anything else. I have an 8m north loft pro and I'm looking at adding the gong 6xl curve H as well as a DW board just to get out on the super light days... I'm in fresh water at altitude.
Yeah I did end up selling my 8m, and I only have a 7m now which is nice for jumping on those mid-teens days. but ideally, the dw board will get me out on smaller wings. it's new, but I'm open an into that. it'll be weird to explore my low end again. but cool to try new things. the longer you wait, the better the designs will get! I wish you an awesome weekend up there bud!
@@OCEANBOUND1 unfortunately no wind since thursday here but tomorrow is looking good...
Hey Jeremy, just came across this video of yours. I'm pretty much on the same journey as you. I have a DW board which I built myself, and have the Armie 865PM, 1675 and 202 stab. Like you, I realised how much I used my wing for balance. Been using my DIY Foil drive on my set up and re-learning how to paddle up on a narrow board. 3 sessions in and I can see my balance just standing and paddling on the board improving, but the flights still remain elusive. It's not pleasant in the frigid North Sea and winter is not the best time to learn! Noticed my nose gets up a bit too much, so I ordered a 1 degree baseplate shim to see if that makes a difference. I'll try that out tomorrow. My 1550v2 and earlier A+ set up didn't get my nose up. Have you tried shimming your board yet?
sup bud! it's great hearing others go through the same frustrations... I really wanted to be so good at it right off the bat... oops. I recently found one video by Jeremy Riggs that had some practice moves that have really clicked in my head, I've yet to get out and practice them. I feel like I'm close. I just bought a new paddle too... it probably won't make a huge difference but I'll take any little thing at this point. I did end up shimming my mast 1 degree. it seems to help offset the added rake angle of the HM masts. I haven't been out in over a week and I'm dying to try the new moves and paddle. maybe tomorrow. let me know how your progress goes! I'll try to do a dw board paddle video soon if I make any progress :P
I never windsurfed but I think I’m hanging onto my wing for balance cause when I try to prone I’m off balance and my feet aren’t in the right place. And pumping? I don’t have that down either, but I don’t really aspire to to doing the Huntington Hop anyway. And I just bring myself to use a paddle, too many hangups from being a surfer. Should I open my mind? I’ve heard people use the term “disciplines” to connote the different modes of propulsion available to foilers. Sounds like going to the gym. Will I ever figure it out? It is certainly humbling to be a total kook again. I’m glad I wasn’t really a dick to anybody cause everyone sure is nice to me.
😂 hey well being nice can go a long way! Yeah pumping with my regular wing boards that happen to have straps on them just seems easier to pump, but that’s kinda a false sense of security, or is just very different. the DW board with no straps is taking me a while to figure out where my feet feel best. I seem to like a short stance for pumping but I wonder if I have something wrong there as well, you’d think a wide stance would mean a more dramatic and powerful pump. But yeah, I do feel newb-ish out there, again, and I dont mind. I just stay on the shoulder of where all the good surf is and I’m happy out there and I assume so is the rest of the lineup 🤪👊
Good luck on your journey bud, keep me in the loop if any breakthroughs and I wish you an awesome day!
How small you can go with wing size with downwind board? What is your experience? In about 9-10 knots
I have only tried the 1675 so far. mostly cause I just bought it and I'm trying to figure it out, and also cause I'm really into paddling up on to foil on the flatwater. I've been damn determined. BUT starting next session I will start trying each foil out with the new DW. I'm super excited to see how things like the 925 do. and then I can always add bigger hand wings... things will get complicated quick! but more soon, still working on it. remind me if you haven't seen it in my next few videos! I wish you and your crew have an awesome weekend!
You mentioned you are now noticing how much you use your wing for balance. I’m curious why this has become more apparent with the new skinnier board? Is it noticeably more tippy than your wider, shorter boards?
No, the front to back stability makes these dw boards extremely stable. But they allow you to get up in 5kn with a 5m wing. Im guessing I've gotten up with a 2.8m wing in sub 15kn at 200lbs.
The wing will have nothing to balance against in ultra light winds. So now you have to balance yourself and hold/lift up a wing.
Having hard handles here really helps since you can lean on your wingtip while waiting for a puff.
sup @larrycollar1322! as the other commenter already said, it's not the board, it's just getting out and on foil with less wind or less effort. I was out on a 4.5m the other day when I would have been underpowered on my 5.5m and regular board. so that 4.5m got me up on foil fine, I just needed a little bit to get me up. but once up I just had no resistance in my hands, and it's just made me realize how much I used the pull of the wing as a crutch that provides stability. like leaning into a wall, but more like holding onto a guardrail and leaning back. so less hanging in the wing, more balancing over the board, and I'm just used to doing it the other way. it'll only develop my tiger-paw balance more, and that is something I'm totally cool with.
@user-vw6nk3rt4h right on! I was paddling with my strut the other day when the wind totally died, and actually moving forward pretty good with that method.
Used one for a while. 😢 lame.I pass these boards on my 4.5 34lt downwinding all the time while I am making turns, these things are a fad. So many for sale on maui its comical
yeah, I can agree. but it does open up some other paths that for me are at least worth exploring. selling my foil SUP for the new dw board, that alone is worth it... it catches waves way better than my older setup. paddling up on the flat is HARD at this point, but I will make that a thing in my life, looking forward to doing that on the flatwater near my house. as far as light wind winging... I thought I had pump game, I def do not! so this will help with that. and if I can surf waves now in less wind, that's a total win. so I totally get it, the short boards are where I wanna be all the time but I like exploring these for some of the things they offer. I know once I get a foil drive and put it on my sinker, life will change again. I'll wait till the Spring to make that step. if I can wait that long, lol.
Foildrive
YES!!
Great video. Your not old at 45. Try doing this sht when your over 65. I do it all everyday. Heal up fast bro!
lol thanks!! I'm def not saying I'm OLD, but since I passed 40 things are just noticeably changing in my body. I hope to be a 70 yr old winger! that's the plan at least. thanks for the comments bud and I wish you an awesome day!
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