You are the first person I've seen with criticisms of Apple that do NOT come from an anti-Apple bias. That makes your arguments extremely persuasive. Especially your argument about the Mac Pro power supply.
I've found LTT's Mac reviews tend to be pretty balanced, but it's hard to find serious balanced reviews of Macs in the tech space that aren't a little...fanboy.
My wife used to work at an Apple store and expressly handled corporate and business accounts. They do have those people, but it’s tough to reach them because they have so many consumers that try to say they’re pros like you because they carry an iPad Pro. Great video once again. Been following your whole journey on this and it’s super insightful, especially seeing all of the things that will no doubt be included in the Apple Silicon designs.
I am a computer professional (run my own computer consulting and repair business) and am well versed in audio production (Owner of Ableton Live Suite and $1000's of plugins, etc..) I have 2 keyboards, one 48, one 88, Ableton Push, launchpad, ROLI keyboard, etc.. I say this simply to prove my bonafides in the 'space' in order to challenge the thought that you should even be using a Mac at all. The things you have listed in this video, that you do, seem trivial for a high-spec PC. I leave my computer on 24/7 and it never crashes or resets and never has issues with music software/plugins/stacks of plugins. All this to say, you could do for $10K what you do with the overly-expensive mac... and "it just works". And you can fix it easily if need be. I have a few theater and audio/video production clients, huge audio production boards, DMX lighting, wireless mic mixing, etc... live theater productions, ballet houses, movies.. with 3d surface mapping projection and 20-channel audio... aint nobody using Macs. Some of that may be due to the 7-8 year no-refresh on the mac pro.. but in the end, nobody is clamoring to get a new mac because "PC's suck" or anything of the sort... more like, "Oh, well, I guess we never needed Macs anyways" and "this is much faster than mac". I can walk in and fix any of their systems within a few hours with parts on-hand, parts off the shelf, or ordered in 2 days, no hassle. Why subject yourself to the abuses of Apple? It really isn't necessary and really should be shunned. The days of "Apple is for creatives" is long gone... serious workflows are on Linux(Render farms, etc.), and Pro-Serious workflows are on PC's/Windows or a combination of Linux/Windows on a network. Mac performance is shit. The numbers are in, it's demonstrable. And yes, I do have a few clients with Mac Pro's (Tower variety, not rackmount)... they are always a problem.. mostly with Networking/WIFI and Catalina issues, 3rd party hardware support is a nightmare. I have also had to deal with Apple parts replacements.. a FREAKING NIGHTMARE... basically, take it to Apple and let them dick around for a week or two calling corporate to plead with them to send parts to the Apple store. It's ridiculous. It's unprofessional and it's costing you buku $$$ on both the front end and the long haul... all for less "performance" and "ability". I just don't get it.
Being able to buy parts off the shelf is certainly a benefit to PC’s. The motherboard in that Mac Pro is another point of failure. I don’t think they would sell someone a spare motherboard which would have to come with an 1TB SSD already installed since you can’t move the SSD on your old computer to the replacement motherboard adding another $400. I just checked and Apple charges $400 for an upgrade from 256GB to a 1TB SSD are they out of their effing minds?!? Why does a $6k Pro computer come with 256GB of storage anyway? Also I spec’d the computer out just like in the video and it was $26,600 Canadian for a pro computer with a $200 video card. Apple doesn’t respect their customers at all with those prices.
Apple: "Why are we calling you?" Neil: "Are you f***ing kidding me?" Apple: "Would you like to trade-in your iPhone?" Neil: "Googy's wearing a mask and can provide better support than that."
Take a good look at the GPU in this expansive system, and then see with NVidia has to offer. On the other hand I think you can do the thing you want to do with this machine so it’s not a problem.
Re: software compatibility and s--t like that ... Absolutely the reason as soon as the apple silicon announcement i planned and went out and got the current (i.e. 2018) mac mini, to run Ableton Live. My laptop was due for a replacement ... and Ableton has form for making you buy Ableton upgrades on operating system upgrades, probably fair enough I guess for their costs. And Suite is exxy too, and who knows when ableton on big sur will be supported? If covid hadn't blasted my income to hell I would be thinking about one of those new iMacs. The thing I don't get is how so many tech journalists absolutely do not get this sort of use-case. "why buy this new but old iMac? the new one is around the corner?" sorry to hear about the maccas drive thru issues on the productions but glad to hear its back again. people are watching a lot of 'content' (i.e. TV) nowadays.
Thanks for shedding light on pro tools. That’s what we mostly use. I only deal with recording and mixing though, maybe once or twice a year I’ll need to import/export a video though. Of course Logic will run amazingly, that’s always a given. Also props for being the only youtuber reviewing the Mac Pro who uses it professionally, unlike most who say they use it “professionally” but it’s just for their own RUclips vids lol.
Antonio Zamudio that video was pure propaganda. Those guys were using a laptop to create music. So of course a $20k desktop is going to feel better, but they were doing professional work on a laptop so a $20k overpriced desktop wasn’t necessary.
Robert P IMO, being a professional means you have to answer to someone who’s paying for your service. You tubers don’t have bosses or deadlines that will terminate their career if they mess up
I took delivery on my 2019 Mac Pro on July 2nd and it has been very frustrating. First Mac in 30 years I have had problems with (and I have owned a lot of them). Been going in circles with Apple Tech Support for over two months with no resolution. It freezes and restarts sometimes 5 times a day and sometimes goes 3-4 days with no problems? Turning off sleep and only putting the displays to sleep seemed to help, but even tonight I had three crashes just working in Adobe apps and playing a small Quicktime movie. From my research, most people think it has to do with the w5700x GPU or its drivers or a problem between that GPU and Catalina. I have talked with several people who had the same problems with the w5700x and when they swapped it out for the Pro Vega II or even the 580x, their problems disappeared. I asked Apple if they could just send me a replacement GPU, but they said that was impossible. At first they said they could send me a new machine, but not just the card? Then after many calls and going through all the OS reinstalls and reformatting, etc. they then decided it was the logic board (I doubt it), but I live hundreds of miles from an Apple Store! The last I heard, they finally decided again to send me a new machine. They took my credit card to put a $10,000 hold on it and that was over two weeks ago... I never heard back and no response to my emails now!
thank you for all this experience sharing. I had some issues with Apple too so I recently switch to windows and I never thought I'd like it better !!! The only issue I have is the lack of aggregate functionality...
Imagine having racks full of these Mac Pro's in a datacentre and having to take one (or more) to a home user store to replace a part 😁 You'd be there almost daily.
i still cant imagine these being used in a data centre. You could fit 5 x 1U servers with remote management and redundant PSU, or sandwitch 8-10 mac mini's sideways each with their own dedicated 10GB network in the same footprint. Hrmmm.
Exactly, which is why it’s beyond baffling that they used rails needing 24” post to post mounting when audio/video furniture isn’t nearly that deep. The very market crying for this machine
Because it's Apple. Do very few things right. Even for a workstation in your life of work you'd want redundant PSU's for example. There aren't even hot swap parts like fans in it, an I correct?
weust you can’t use your own SSD because of their security stuff but if you need to replace the cpu, ram, videocards, etc, they can be replaced without having to replace the whole unit. Even the SSD can be replaced as well but it has to be special apple ones. There have been multiple tear downs on the new Mac Pro since it came out.
As a Mojave user, I have to say that it is mostly Avid's fault. Pro Tools used to be a rock. Now, it's getting more buggy with each release. I'm still on 2019.6 because of a bug that appeared in 2019.10 that has yet to be fixed. They've doubled the price and cut their workforce. That's not going to fly long term. Man, I miss Digidesign! Now that I've gotten my rant out of the way, I want to add that I've really enjoyed following your process with the new Mac Pro. I appreciate the great info and your viewpoints on Apple and your DAWs.
Hasn't Pro Tools always been buggy? Maybe it has been better in recent years. I have noticed many studios use it still (or.again?) And Avids demise is predicted year after year and it keeps kicking around....
05:45 U can roll back , I mean it should work, but u need to force it , it worked for me on different macbooks , with the OS install on a USB stick , basically u need to disconnect it from the internet at all, means like AT ALL , don't just turn off wifi from the system, turn off the router or whatever, what I did easily I just opened the macbook and diconnect manually the wifi antenna, than normally like you want to install OS , turn on the mac keeping the ALT pressed , when you get to the screen when it shows all those options (format , etc.) don't do anything just open Terminal and set the date to like 2018 or even earlier , it should work, than restart and run the same ALT+POWER BUTTON like u want to install the OS and it will work as normally ... I mean it should, I am not 100% sure on that speciffic machine, but it worked just fine to roll back from Catalina to High Sierra for me only in that way, otherwise it showed me that the install is corrupted or whatever ;) If u want you can give it a try. Cya!
Despite the price paid for this one system, they're not giving great support unless you spend millions. I spend about 350k a year through our business and out "business" reps are useless.
I went the other way after being a Mac user since 1992 ( and not wanting to play Mac Pro prices with my new studio machine ) I decided to go over to the dark side and built a Ryzen 9 3950x 2080ti PC, and I must admit I'm blown away with the sheer power for music, video editing and 3D graphics. I mean, I could go right into why I now I prefer it over Mac but we'd be here all day. My only gripe is that it won't run Logic, but with Abelton live and Pro Tools it's an utter beast.
@@NeilParfittMusic funny really, I bought the PC as a high end graphics machine and never intended it for music but after a few test sessions on Ableton it completely replaced my 2018 MBP for music production. It's not just the grunt of the machine either, the load times are so much faster and it just seems to run a lot smoother on the PC too.
Wonderful video, camera companies (Nikon, Sony and Canon) have Pro Support so you can easily swap parts, borrow lenses, get replacements while yours is getting repaired/serviced so that's a perfect analogue to what you're talking about. It also included a paid membership which makes sense for all the support you get. Apple really needs this for both MacBook Pros and Mac Pros
Thanks Neil, The Only Major Issue I have with my new Mac Pro Rack Mount unit. Is once I got it. I was all fired up to put it in one of my Studio Racks. (That housed my old PC) BAM Big issue for me. The pullout Brackets are 2' To long for my Argosy Audio Rack. I had the same sort of issue you had with customer service. They had no idea what I was talking about. After three day of back and forth. They had no idea on what could be done from their side. So I have it incorrectly rigged in my Rack.
Your video popped up in my feed. Fellow audio pro Canadian here on the New Brunswick side. Hope all is well! Great video. I’m Lmost ready to pull the plug but business has been slow since COVID so I’m going to hold off for a bit.
Catalina is a 64 bit only! operating system. It won't support 32 bit apps, drivers or programs. I had to replace my external sound blaster card on my Mac Mini 2014 because Creative cheaped out on the 64 bit driver upgrade for the Sound Blaster Omni. It could handle 5.1 surround but dropped support for enhanced surround, crystalizer and smart volume. I upgraded to a Sound Blaster X-3. It came with a 64 bit driver that supported all functions of the X-3. The X-3 had much lower distortion and much better signal to noise ratio. So, it was worth the price of the upgrade. Both sound cards are external USB. The X-3 can even support Dolby Atmos using 5.1 channels with good sound focus. I think some of the after market equipment manufactures want you to purchase new hardware and they are taking advantage of this. The thing is that switching to a 64 bit only OS allows Apple to ultimately come out with a 128 bit OS that can also run 64 bit software. I think they are planning to eventually come out with 128 bit CPU's. It gets too complicated to support three architectures. This upgrade now will allow them to upgrade hardware in the future that will still support the 64 bit programs that people have. This is the reason that Microsoft still sells 32 bit operating systems. 32 bit systems can support 16 bit hardware and software. The scientific world still has a lot of 16 bit hardware out there. You could translate to this equipment but there is still enough a big enough market for Microsoft to support a 32 bit OS. I have CD's with raw Voyager data from the outer planets. The data is 8 bit. It will only run on a 16 bit OS and my last 16 bit PC died about 25 years ago. I still keep the CD's because I such a packrat, but it would cost too much money to convert the files and most of them are available on line somewhere. In order to get new technology you have to lose old technology.
Yes, if Apple markets their "Pro" machines as a top tier tool for creative industry Professionals, they should not merely pay lip service to the Pro Community, and actually have highly trained employees and a Pro Support sector. All your concerns should have been addressed PRIOR to the 2019 Mac Pro's release. Avid should ALSO address all these issues (I mean, no Quicktime?? come on!) so industry pro's don't experience uncalled for downtime or loss of tools. Thanks, Neil, for expressing these concerns, for your tips (do you take tips? Cuz you're looking pretty busker-esque these days) and for sharing this process. Plus the cat stuff. Cheers
@@NeilParfittMusic Yeah, a Glen Hansard paisley shirt! Made of hair! Speaking of buskers, you, Neil, remind me a LOT of my pal and client, Quinn Fallon. You guys could be brothers: ruclips.net/video/UEawHfgtVRA/видео.html
Lip service is all that is necessary for the 'pro' market. All that matters is being the product thought of as the 'pro' brand, not actually being better than anything. Marketing is the ONLY thing that matters. Then the people will make the excuses for you.
This is super informative. In late 2018 I built a pc because I needed more processing power than what Apple was offering at the time. I’ve switched all my work flows to accommodate the change. I enjoy using windows 10, but I miss logic and the years of familiarity I had with Mac OS kernel. I’m slowly building up my knowledge of windows 10. Antidotal to my experience, windows doesn’t seem to handle audio as well as Mac OS. Though video work seems to smoke Mac OS by having more horse power on pc. All in all if I ever find a need to switch back to Mac OS, I’ll likely buy a Mac Pro based on your recommendation in this video. Thank you, for your thorough analysis.
Loss of QT support in Avid isn't too suprising. When Apple introduced QuickTime X they drastically cut the featureset (QTX export is a joke), so a lot of apps continued to use the old QT7 APIs... which disappeared in, you guessed it, Catalina.
Hi Neil - thanks for the update with this video. My stock replies when my viewers ask if I'm getting the 'New MacPro' is 1) I'll let you know when I put up a GoFundMe (I refer to it as the Go F-Me) page or 2) I'll buy it when they switch to the 64-Core AMD processor. And I wonder - do you think it will go to Apple Silicon in the future? I guess so. As an Apple shareholder, I like the benefits of Apple Silicon (cost control) but as an end-user, I will miss the ability to boot into Windows or efficiently run Windows via virtualization.
Avid is indeed the most frustrating company. I used to work for a company with one of the largest Avid installations in California. We had 3 different kinds of network storage. Dozens of Avid servers and probably more than 100 desktops with some version of Avid video edit capability. We still had to wait forever to get service. And Avid is just bonkers on their hardware compatibility chart. Often taking so long that by the time it is released, the next model is out!
@@NeilParfittMusic I agree with your video, it's a bad value if you think in the overall CPU performance, but in the long term I will be able to replace the CPU, and also add new generation graphic card. With the new Mac Pro using Apple Silicon, I will be always attached to their own devices / upgrades. This machine will be the last generation machine that I will have some freedom of upgrade on my own :-)
I had a similar experience with Apple support. I purchased an upgrade for the internal SSD, followed all the instructions provided on their website, yet the computer would not recognize the new SSD. I was on the phone with 2 different support techs who were basically reading back to me all the instructions I had already tried. Even going so far as to admit they were not familiar with the issue. Long story short, I figured it out on my own. Nonetheless, thanks for the update video. Are you still using Video Slave as your third party video app?
I’ve been using the video / Audio import since the protools update includes the video export beta a few weeks ago. So far so good.. except transcoding is balls slow
Yea, Massive X seems to be a trouble maker. And if I load up too many mastering plugs on on channel strip, that can overload a single core, but otherwise it’s great. How are you handling the quicktime issue?
I have an iMac Pro with multiple peripherals and I tried Catalina for a few days and it kept hard crashing with I think kernel panics, although I don't know much the particulars. I gave up and switched back to Mojave which is much more reliable, although it has its own problems.
Jake Siener It is even more infuriating considering the cost of their services and wares. They’re not exactly shy about being way up-market. Bottom line: they offer the highest cost, lowest satisfaction user experience in the market, period. Not awesome. I would be ecstatic to hear that the Pro Tools line was sold off. No company could possibly fuck it up more than Avid.
it was like calling a cell phone provider trying to change your plan. Took an hour but finally after an hour - sorted. But... WHY IS IT THIS DIFFICULT to get a PSU??
$480 cad is a great price for that I'd say, very surprising. I'm not sure the ARM movement will be rolling out that fast to make this machine obsolete before it's useful lifespan anyway. Seems like it should take a pretty long time to replace 28 core Intel machines with an ARM equivalent.
apple did say their entire line up will the apple silicon in two years from start. whether that means the mac pro i can't say ofc. they really should do an upgrade program for that machine tho. i was thinking about e-waste and such and they should also make an upgrade package for the mac mini too.
Dudadius after this video are you really going to trust a person who doesn’t know anything about how soon new products are launching? Also would you trust someone who’s trying to sell you a product?
You're bang on about the need for a pro division, but I feel like Apple doesn't really care considering how much of their revenue is mac, then how much of that is from the pro user base.... it's really unfortunate as it was the pro user base that made apple what it is today when Steve Jobs came back... I guess it's all the knock on effect of naming the former CFO as the CEO?
Hi Neil. Thanks so much for the various videos. I'm in the market for an upgrade like you were and your sharing of insights and experiences is extremely valuable...and well done. Cheers
6:08 the apple pro way, I left when they dropped multicam from the new final cut, last strand. Also that is just apple parts, used to be a tech for a apple certified repair shop and their parts service gives me nightmares, 8 years after the fact. 3 careers later, lol.
Interesting PoV even if I'm not an Apple fan. But it's really awesome to hear your PoV from a true working professional with some high end requirements. It's too bad to hear you got shafted by Avid and have some of the hardware issues on a machine where you'd just again, expect everything to work but otherwise that's great to hear it's been going well. Found this video on a whim and it's cool to hear your perspective! Very cheery and pleasant to watch, subbed.
I do agree with everything that you’ve said except I do have a question. When you said that the Mac Pro isn’t modular, when you can upgrade the cpu, ram, add hard drives, as well as internal sound interfaces, video accelerators, I/O cards, NVME RAID cards, and etc. How do you consider the Mac Pro not modular?
Apple is hustling it like it’s a magical gamechanging feature .. yet it’s no different than their previous tower offerings.. actually more crippled with their own ssd tech.
Very interesting insights thanks Neil ! your issue regarding Catalina is exactly why I brought back a brand new 16" MBP to Apple within a day. It should be TOTALLY possible to downgrade a Pro mac at least to the previous OS for all kinds of 3rd party compatibility issues to hit the ground running with a new machine. In this case Mojave. As I told the Apple Store people (who agreed) , it is a lose-lose situation for both Apple and the Pro user if I have to return a machine within 24hrs! I just don't get it...it does not make business sense. I was told I was not the 1st one ! LOL. Moreover, I am on Reaper now and not looking back. Have you tried it ?
Wow, you crossed my mind the other day and I wondered how things were going with you and the new machine. I'm in the business as well and VERY familiar with what you were going through...glad to hear your shows went to production! Re: software, I was also in a similar situation having bought a new machine at the end of the year that came with Catalina. Man that was a nightmare, and to think Big Sur is due to come out in a matter of months and there are still plugin manufacturers suggesting we 'hold off' on installing Catalina. Anyway, thanks for the update!
A lot of people don't seem to understand the biggest reason for manufactures saying to hold off on Catalina: No more 32-bit support. Yes Catalina was buggy here and there but that wasn't the problem. Big Sur isn't going to change the 32-bit problem, but it also won't make it any worse. It's just something that people will have to deal with and adapt to.
I hope to upgrade soon. My Mac Pro is 10 years old now and I am unable to use the latest version of Logic Pro. Also, "everything" is slow now. It's kind of annoying. I'm just confused about which 3rd party stuff I need to replace the Apple stuff inside (and if it's even necessary?). The base model is way overpriced but does the value increase if you get a more expensive machine? It would be less hassle just to get a Mac Pro without worrying about replacing things but then am I wasting money. I've been researching this since December and I'm still unsure. What do you believe is the most important component for making music. I'm assuming RAM but I don't know. Maybe it's cores, or something else. I'm looking forward to your buying guide.
I’m going to be doing a buyers guide for music/audio /and will cover all this. The 16core is the minimum spec to buy. Otherwise, its a horrible value. Ram and storage can easily be added later.
It seems like the worst offenders with regard to Catalina compatibility are the big ones. I bet the original coder of the problem modules is long gone, they can't get it to work in 64-bit and they basically need to hire a specialist to fix it. It is still unforgivable; they've known this was coming for a very long time. This should give you a sense of assurance that going with an Intel-based workstation was the *right* decision. I expect the big pro suites are going to take a very long time to release on ARM.
The question shouldn't be "when will this be made compatible again?" it should be "Why did Apple feel the need to put 32-bit apps to the guillotine?" Not everything needs to be 64-bit. Browsers that run each extension and tab in its own process doesn't really need 64-bits. Dated games don't need to be such either.
Yes I agree having to deal with any of these pro services and having to re-explain everything over and over again is absolutely incredibly frustrating. I’ve got an ongoing thing with Apl right now and still not settled. Also, what camera do you use to shoot your videos and what do you use for audio. Your lighting looks great. Very impressed with your videos except every once in a while your camera refocuses.😄 Thanks and look forward to your next video
Awesome followup. I've noticed that every update with MacOS on my Mac Pro has screwed up permissions/ functionality with my Universal Audio gear. In an odd behavior I found that if I had UAD gear plugged in directly to the system it would give me issues, but by moving to the GPU thunderbolt cards the problems went away. If i used a blackout ux-a (thunderbolt ssd rack) and daisy chain off that, the main thunderbolt ports work fine. Separately, Logic actually works decently on the apple Arm dev kit, though the lack of thunderbolt limits further testing. Naturally everything else audio is running through rosetta so that's not going to work. I don't expect the Mac Pro being arm based for a few years, too many existing issues, and even more will pop up moving forward. It does have me eyeballing moving back to windows though :(
Yep, this is something that I learned about in with the G5. Apple has been awful at supporting pro users for 20-25 years. I do remember the days when I could talk to someone who actually spoke english and knew about the OS. Sadly that was system 7 I think.
Remember Neil, the guy that runs AVID now, used to run a bank. That all I needed to know.. Thanks for the rant.. One reason I stayed on my trash can 2013 which still works great on Mojave.. Never went any further.. like Catalina .. Of course you had to!!
So glad your machine is handling the workload! It’s really great to hear!!! I’m sorry but I feel like the foundation of your issues is with the way Avid dose software development. In all fairness I don’t do the work that you do. However I seen the average trap a long time ago. They just don’t care because they feel like you won’t leave. There are so many other DAW’s out there and average just drags their feet. Really, I don’t think they care about the small independent user base. I only use ProTools to open and export OMS files. PCI express is a totally expandable platform. If the industry doesn’t develop tools who is that poor it’s a bigger sign. Lastly, what other pieces of equipment do you have a spare power supply for. It’s design not to fail.
Another great video! I had pre-sale questions about a Mac Pro screw on their website photos for the MPX modules and I had to email Tim Cook’s office. It was much the same experience having to bounce to four different people before I found somebody who even knew what I was talking about. Unacceptable they don’t have a niche group of public facing employees who can focus just on this one business line. Doesn’t have to be that many people given the small user base, but please Apple, give us somebody who even knows what this machine is!
Thanks for the update Neil. Glad things are bouncing back 4 u. That PSU story ugh I assumed they had some level of CS above Apple store for that machine
Absolutely LOVE your tee shirt! Also - I’m happy to hear your experience with the Pro, that’s a huge investment - and glad to know it’s been good. Congrats!
Just got a ton of emails saying not to update to Big Sur yet, so it looks like there's going to be another wait. FWIW, I'm only using Logic Pro X in my 24 core 2019 Mac Pro, and everything I need to use is working fine. Only problem I have with my Apogee Symphony MkII is that after it's been on for close to 24 hours, video/audio playback speeds get extremely fast and I need to reboot to fix the problem. But, that same issue was happening with my former 12 core trashcans, so it must be an Apogee issue. All in all, though, I LOVE the machine.
yeah it's good to have a running spreadsheet of all your 3rd party plugins, apps and drivers.. and only shift once everything is supported properly. Otherwise, you're a public beta tester :(
Having been an Xserve customer I felt like I had a front-row seat to the decaying of Apple's enterprise support in real-time as every time I attempted to order Xserve parts it was more painful than the last until you couldn't even get somebody on the phone who knew that the Xserve had even existed.
On the Avid issue. it will sound annoying my saying, but that is why workstation sellers have or should have ISV certification with Pro software. what is the case with Avid Ultimate? I mean, if your income depends on that software you should seriously consider buying equipment combos (OS+hardware+drivers) that have been certified to work with that application. In those cases, software, and hardware vendors have or should have dedicated lines to handle failures of certified applications.
I would love to see your workflow from start to finish. I'm so used to working in Steinberg Nuendo and Cubase with VST and VSTi (and that's after years of using nothing but an Ensonic EPS followed by a Korg X3) to see a true PRO workflow would be incredible. Otherwise, you have hands down the best personal studio I've ever seen! Awesome stuff from a fellow composer!!!
After 10 years of using pro tools I just jumped ship and switched to Cubase. I was so sick of waiting for Avid to update things that are essential and features their entire user base has asked for for years. Something as simple as track folders should have been added a long time ago. There was a little bit of a learning curve but it's been well worth it.
one additional point of excellent agreement: Apple is now a provider of professional "plant & equipment". If you had bought a lathe or something like that for your workshop and needed parts for it, there'd be a parts division and you would speak directly to a guy who understands the equipment and its parts catalogue. ok it might only be a national department for each country, but they can process the parts transaction and order it in their internal system, and perform other basic service functions, e.g. to dispatch repair or arrange a date in the genius bar. that's what 'AppleCare' looks like for me, if i was paying $17k (its like bloody $30 in au dollaroonis)! also available for the lifetime of the machine, even if at a price. apple are cutting off valuable subscription income the dumb buggers.
Yikes - yeah I get it - I've got some choice words for Avid myself - wish they would stop being - well - I won't say it here. Sorry to hear the of woes with Apple phone support, too. Yes - they should know better. I've been making backup jump drives of my MacOS of choice in case of system failure (Mavericks). There are ways to download older versions of the OS (you have to hunt for the official links - they're out there) - sounds like the new MacPro not able to have those installed? Anyways - glad to hear the update and that the new MacPro is working well. Maybe there one in my future? But first some new sample libraries! ;-)
In the days of the Xserve, you had to go through their business division to order one and support was given by them. This meant that when you ordered it, you had to pay via a bank wire transfer to the Apple Toronto bank account number. But when you called for parts, you could order spare ones easily. (You coudln't really bring an xserve into a store, and Apple knew many customers had racks full of them so not realiostic to ask them to bring it to an apple store. Are you registered with Apple as a small business? or just regular retail customer?
I am also in Canada and have had a terrible time getting my first ordered Mac Pro replaced as it continuously crashes on me (which we all know shouldn't happen) and because of the lack of pro support, I spent A MONTH, yes, A MONTH trying to convince apple they needed to replace my Pro... After all that time I couldn't part with a semi-working machine while also deep into projects to just wait for Apple to send me a new one... so after two weeks of more convincing, they sent me a ... get ready for it ... base ... line... model!!!!!!! Yep! Then, for the next two weeks while they kept repeating their emails to send back the other one (which was not baseline... ) I finally had someone call me that could take back the baseline model and replace it with the proper specs... It arrives tomorrow... I have spent a total of $14,000.00 additional to try to make this Mac work in my studio all the while it was their CPU failing (which I sent them a panic kernel on day one with the proof right in it that it was their chip failing, but no, I had to change out the interface, or the PCIe cards, etc, etc... spending, spending, etc.... Apple should give me back that money or allow me to keep the other Mac.. haha. I've documented it all and have thought about releasing the entire experience.
I have a Mac Pro 7,1 and I don't regret buying it either, My last Mac Pro was a 5,1 first owner and I had it for 10yrs, I will be buying the Apple silicon Mac Pro that might take 2-3 yrs that's a long time to be waiting if you need something now
Unfortunately since Steve passed Cook has turned the whole company into an iPhone/iPad company. They used to have a a Pro Division. Actually , they’re whole tech support was pro. One could call and the techs knew about all the third party music companies making apps for the Mac and they knew how all of them worked. Back in the early G4 days and early ProTools days, when Logic was still Emagic from Germany I utilized their tech support so much , everything worked flawlessly. After a year of dealing with Apples tech support, I took the test to become a tech and aced their Level 1 & 2 and got Apple certified just for my own amusement as a Apple tech for Panther & Tiger. Now when I need help, I end up figuring it all out on my own . Their supervisors are literally stupid. They don’t know anything about Logic X and especially know absolutely nothing about 3rd party plugins . My 2018 MacBook Pro was a a piece of shit and I had it sent in 4 times and had to have my attorney threaten to sue Apple then they finally sent a 2019 direct from China to replace . I retro fitted 4 Intel 2011 towers complete overhaul and they clock in just under my fully blown iMac Pro The company has gone to hell in a hand basket . There is no more real tech support and no one, I mean no one knows what they’re doing over there anymore. Cook has driven Jobs incredibly company into the ground. It’s a real shame . They were originally so far ahead of anyone else Now they’re just really polite idiots can only sell or give bad info on their own products -no real support or anyone who is competent. I’ve called so many times to see if I could reach someone with any knowledge and there simply isn’t anyone. They won’t honor services either unless you legally threaten them as I had to. As a long long time Mac user and industry professional with a lot of credits you think they would be conscious of they pro users and be a little accommodating, but they couldn’t care less . They used to be accommodating to everyone whether a user was even pro or not, originally. They were an incredible company back then . Cook is a piece of shit for what he’s done to Apple
Thx! nothing is out yet - but I can say that the composing is on a Canadian preschool show called 'Ranger Rob' (Season 3) and the synths/various score tech is on 'American Gods' (Season 3)
Hey Neil. I'm curious what workaround you use for the Quicktime issue. I imagine you need to do a fair amount of "Bounce to Quicktime" for producer reviews? Did you do the Video Slave thing, or maybe keep a Mojave system somewhere where you do this intermediary work?
Great video. Totally agree with you on so many points. Don't even know where to start. Avid's support for Apple software has gone down over the years. From what I've heard, it's because of outsourcing and a reduced commitment to the Mac, largely because Apple stopped making machines that professionals wanted to use. I had a couple of conversations with people at NAMM about this. Also, Apple doesn't make it easy to work with them, especially on lower-priority items like audio. If it works in Logic Pro X, then Apple doesn't really care. Look at all the Izotope software issues over the past year. Apple is definitely not about supporting its pro users. A close relative of mine worked for Apple and told me over and over, "Apple cares about iPhones, watches, and consumer computers. That's it. Everything else is a hobby." I bought an iMac in 2017 after 9 years with the "classic Mac Pro," which I modded and upgraded in several ways. The trash can Mac Pro just wasn't a pro machine. It was a souped up consumer machine. Apple wants to lead the industry, which they can, but they can't lead professionals who actually need computers to meet their needs. Apple sees consumers as needing to go where Apple sends the puck.
I'm glad you're happy with your Intel Mac Pro it sounds like a beast. I'd probably still get one now, you're the perfect resource for setting it up hehe. My 16 inch MacBook crashes at about 140 sample library tracks with Logic but I don't have AC so on hot days less tracks.
But when the world needed him most, he returned
hah!
You are the first person I've seen with criticisms of Apple that do NOT come from an anti-Apple bias. That makes your arguments extremely persuasive. Especially your argument about the Mac Pro power supply.
I've found LTT's Mac reviews tend to be pretty balanced, but it's hard to find serious balanced reviews of Macs in the tech space that aren't a little...fanboy.
My wife used to work at an Apple store and expressly handled corporate and business accounts. They do have those people, but it’s tough to reach them because they have so many consumers that try to say they’re pros like you because they carry an iPad Pro. Great video once again. Been following your whole journey on this and it’s super insightful, especially seeing all of the things that will no doubt be included in the Apple Silicon designs.
Advice: focus your camera on your eyes then deactivate autofocus.
I was about to comment the same!
Autofocus pulsing is killing me
Yeah. More or less unwatchable.
Was about to say the same! Great content but couldn't watch the video.
Well, he’s an audio guy, not a film guy lol
Neil, thank you for your videos!! They’ve been incredibly helpful.
I was wondering where you went! Glad to hear your absence was because you’re busy with work!
yeah this last 6 months feels like 10 years have gone by!
I am a computer professional (run my own computer consulting and repair business) and am well versed in audio production (Owner of Ableton Live Suite and $1000's of plugins, etc..) I have 2 keyboards, one 48, one 88, Ableton Push, launchpad, ROLI keyboard, etc.. I say this simply to prove my bonafides in the 'space' in order to challenge the thought that you should even be using a Mac at all.
The things you have listed in this video, that you do, seem trivial for a high-spec PC. I leave my computer on 24/7 and it never crashes or resets and never has issues with music software/plugins/stacks of plugins. All this to say, you could do for $10K what you do with the overly-expensive mac... and "it just works". And you can fix it easily if need be.
I have a few theater and audio/video production clients, huge audio production boards, DMX lighting, wireless mic mixing, etc... live theater productions, ballet houses, movies.. with 3d surface mapping projection and 20-channel audio... aint nobody using Macs. Some of that may be due to the 7-8 year no-refresh on the mac pro.. but in the end, nobody is clamoring to get a new mac because "PC's suck" or anything of the sort... more like, "Oh, well, I guess we never needed Macs anyways" and "this is much faster than mac". I can walk in and fix any of their systems within a few hours with parts on-hand, parts off the shelf, or ordered in 2 days, no hassle.
Why subject yourself to the abuses of Apple? It really isn't necessary and really should be shunned. The days of "Apple is for creatives" is long gone... serious workflows are on Linux(Render farms, etc.), and Pro-Serious workflows are on PC's/Windows or a combination of Linux/Windows on a network.
Mac performance is shit. The numbers are in, it's demonstrable.
And yes, I do have a few clients with Mac Pro's (Tower variety, not rackmount)... they are always a problem.. mostly with Networking/WIFI and Catalina issues, 3rd party hardware support is a nightmare. I have also had to deal with Apple parts replacements.. a FREAKING NIGHTMARE... basically, take it to Apple and let them dick around for a week or two calling corporate to plead with them to send parts to the Apple store. It's ridiculous. It's unprofessional and it's costing you buku $$$ on both the front end and the long haul... all for less "performance" and "ability". I just don't get it.
Being able to buy parts off the shelf is certainly a benefit to PC’s. The motherboard in that Mac Pro is another point of failure. I don’t think they would sell someone a spare motherboard which would have to come with an 1TB SSD already installed since you can’t move the SSD on your old computer to the replacement motherboard adding another $400. I just checked and Apple charges $400 for an upgrade from 256GB to a 1TB SSD are they out of their effing minds?!? Why does a $6k Pro computer come with 256GB of storage anyway? Also I spec’d the computer out just like in the video and it was $26,600 Canadian for a pro computer with a $200 video card. Apple doesn’t respect their customers at all with those prices.
You the first person to help me understand the meaning of this machine. I finally understand why it's worth the money for the business.
Apple: "Why are we calling you?"
Neil: "Are you f***ing kidding me?"
Apple: "Would you like to trade-in your iPhone?"
Neil: "Googy's wearing a mask and can provide better support than that."
Yes he should trade his Mac Pro with iPhone and use it as video camera cuz this video camera sucks.
Take a good look at the GPU in this expansive system, and then see with NVidia has to offer.
On the other hand I think you can do the thing you want to do with this machine so it’s not a problem.
Re: software compatibility and s--t like that ... Absolutely the reason as soon as the apple silicon announcement i planned and went out and got the current (i.e. 2018) mac mini, to run Ableton Live. My laptop was due for a replacement ... and Ableton has form for making you buy Ableton upgrades on operating system upgrades, probably fair enough I guess for their costs. And Suite is exxy too, and who knows when ableton on big sur will be supported? If covid hadn't blasted my income to hell I would be thinking about one of those new iMacs. The thing I don't get is how so many tech journalists absolutely do not get this sort of use-case. "why buy this new but old iMac? the new one is around the corner?"
sorry to hear about the maccas drive thru issues on the productions but glad to hear its back again. people are watching a lot of 'content' (i.e. TV) nowadays.
Thanks for the insight of an real Apple Professional User!
Thanks for shedding light on pro tools. That’s what we mostly use. I only deal with recording and mixing though, maybe once or twice a year I’ll need to import/export a video though. Of course Logic will run amazingly, that’s always a given. Also props for being the only youtuber reviewing the Mac Pro who uses it professionally, unlike most who say they use it “professionally” but it’s just for their own RUclips vids lol.
K Money I mean.. I could open as many chrome tabs as possible but... 😇
Creating RUclips videos for a living is using them professionally.
Antonio Zamudio that video was pure propaganda. Those guys were using a laptop to create music. So of course a $20k desktop is going to feel better, but they were doing professional work on a laptop so a $20k overpriced desktop wasn’t necessary.
Robert P IMO, being a professional means you have to answer to someone who’s paying for your service. You tubers don’t have bosses or deadlines that will terminate their career if they mess up
I took delivery on my 2019 Mac Pro on July 2nd and it has been very frustrating. First Mac in 30 years I have had problems with (and I have owned a lot of them). Been going in circles with Apple Tech Support for over two months with no resolution. It freezes and restarts sometimes 5 times a day and sometimes goes 3-4 days with no problems? Turning off sleep and only putting the displays to sleep seemed to help, but even tonight I had three crashes just working in Adobe apps and playing a small Quicktime movie.
From my research, most people think it has to do with the w5700x GPU or its drivers or a problem between that GPU and Catalina. I have talked with several people who had the same problems with the w5700x and when they swapped it out for the Pro Vega II or even the 580x, their problems disappeared. I asked Apple if they could just send me a replacement GPU, but they said that was impossible. At first they said they could send me a new machine, but not just the card? Then after many calls and going through all the OS reinstalls and reformatting, etc. they then decided it was the logic board (I doubt it), but I live hundreds of miles from an Apple Store! The last I heard, they finally decided again to send me a new machine. They took my credit card to put a $10,000 hold on it and that was over two weeks ago... I never heard back and no response to my emails now!
I'd absolutely love an audio breakdown/what specs you recommend!
coming soon!
I find the music apps are super slow to update. I shoot video and the video apps update way quicker with the video apps I have no issues in Catalina.
thank you for all this experience sharing. I had some issues with Apple too so I recently switch to windows and I never thought I'd like it better !!! The only issue I have is the lack of aggregate functionality...
Imagine having racks full of these Mac Pro's in a datacentre and having to take one (or more) to a home user store to replace a part 😁 You'd be there almost daily.
i still cant imagine these being used in a data centre. You could fit 5 x 1U servers with remote management and redundant PSU, or sandwitch 8-10 mac mini's sideways each with their own dedicated 10GB network in the same footprint. Hrmmm.
Hence the imagine 😉 These are workstations regardless of formfactor.
Apple hasn't had servers since the Xserve series.
Exactly, which is why it’s beyond baffling that they used rails needing 24” post to post mounting when audio/video furniture isn’t nearly that deep. The very market crying for this machine
Because it's Apple. Do very few things right. Even for a workstation in your life of work you'd want redundant PSU's for example. There aren't even hot swap parts like fans in it, an I correct?
weust you can’t use your own SSD because of their security stuff but if you need to replace the cpu, ram, videocards, etc, they can be replaced without having to replace the whole unit. Even the SSD can be replaced as well but it has to be special apple ones. There have been multiple tear downs on the new Mac Pro since it came out.
As a Mojave user, I have to say that it is mostly Avid's fault. Pro Tools used to be a rock. Now, it's getting more buggy with each release. I'm still on 2019.6 because of a bug that appeared in 2019.10 that has yet to be fixed. They've doubled the price and cut their workforce. That's not going to fly long term. Man, I miss Digidesign!
Now that I've gotten my rant out of the way, I want to add that I've really enjoyed following your process with the new Mac Pro. I appreciate the great info and your viewpoints on Apple and your DAWs.
Hasn't Pro Tools always been buggy? Maybe it has been better in recent years. I have noticed many studios use it still (or.again?) And Avids demise is predicted year after year and it keeps kicking around....
05:45 U can roll back , I mean it should work, but u need to force it , it worked for me on different macbooks , with the OS install on a USB stick , basically u need to disconnect it from the internet at all, means like AT ALL , don't just turn off wifi from the system, turn off the router or whatever, what I did easily I just opened the macbook and diconnect manually the wifi antenna, than normally like you want to install OS , turn on the mac keeping the ALT pressed , when you get to the screen when it shows all those options (format , etc.) don't do anything just open Terminal and set the date to like 2018 or even earlier , it should work, than restart and run the same ALT+POWER BUTTON like u want to install the OS and it will work as normally ... I mean it should, I am not 100% sure on that speciffic machine, but it worked just fine to roll back from Catalina to High Sierra for me only in that way, otherwise it showed me that the install is corrupted or whatever ;) If u want you can give it a try. Cya!
it's locked down on the mac pro.
Neil Parfitt ,bitches ...
I love how the kitties are peaking onto the screen.
I’m curious why they aren’t just give you a business rep... I was always asked to use their business program when I was a contractor..
Despite the price paid for this one system, they're not giving great support unless you spend millions. I spend about 350k a year through our business and out "business" reps are useless.
I went the other way after being a Mac user since 1992 ( and not wanting to play Mac Pro prices with my new studio machine ) I decided to go over to the dark side and built a Ryzen 9 3950x 2080ti PC, and I must admit I'm blown away with the sheer power for music, video editing and 3D graphics. I mean, I could go right into why I now I prefer it over Mac but we'd be here all day.
My only gripe is that it won't run Logic, but with Abelton live and Pro Tools it's an utter beast.
Whatever works for your needs is the right machine!
@@NeilParfittMusic funny really, I bought the PC as a high end graphics machine and never intended it for music but after a few test sessions on Ableton it completely replaced my 2018 MBP for music production. It's not just the grunt of the machine either, the load times are so much faster and it just seems to run a lot smoother on the PC too.
Wonderful video, camera companies (Nikon, Sony and Canon) have Pro Support so you can easily swap parts, borrow lenses, get replacements while yours is getting repaired/serviced so that's a perfect analogue to what you're talking about. It also included a paid membership which makes sense for all the support you get. Apple really needs this for both MacBook Pros and Mac Pros
Thanks Neil, The Only Major Issue I have with my new Mac Pro Rack Mount unit. Is once I got it. I was all fired up to put it in one of my Studio Racks. (That housed my old PC) BAM Big issue for me. The pullout Brackets are 2' To long for my Argosy Audio Rack. I had the same sort of issue you had with customer service. They had no idea what I was talking about. After three day of back and forth. They had no idea on what could be done from their side. So I have it incorrectly rigged in my Rack.
Your video popped up in my feed. Fellow audio pro Canadian here on the New Brunswick side. Hope all is well! Great video. I’m Lmost ready to pull the plug but business has been slow since COVID so I’m going to hold off for a bit.
Catalina is a 64 bit only! operating system. It won't support 32 bit apps, drivers or programs. I had to replace my external sound blaster card on my Mac Mini 2014 because Creative cheaped out on the 64 bit driver upgrade for the Sound Blaster Omni. It could handle 5.1 surround but dropped support for enhanced surround, crystalizer and smart volume. I upgraded to a Sound Blaster X-3. It came with a 64 bit driver that supported all functions of the X-3. The X-3 had much lower distortion and much better signal to noise ratio. So, it was worth the price of the upgrade. Both sound cards are external USB. The X-3 can even support Dolby Atmos using 5.1 channels with good sound focus. I think some of the after market equipment manufactures want you to purchase new hardware and they are taking advantage of this.
The thing is that switching to a 64 bit only OS allows Apple to ultimately come out with a 128 bit OS that can also run 64 bit software. I think they are planning to eventually come out with 128 bit CPU's. It gets too complicated to support three architectures. This upgrade now will allow them to upgrade hardware in the future that will still support the 64 bit programs that people have. This is the reason that Microsoft still sells 32 bit operating systems. 32 bit systems can support 16 bit hardware and software. The scientific world still has a lot of 16 bit hardware out there. You could translate to this equipment but there is still enough a big enough market for Microsoft to support a 32 bit OS.
I have CD's with raw Voyager data from the outer planets. The data is 8 bit. It will only run on a 16 bit OS and my last 16 bit PC died about 25 years ago. I still keep the CD's because I such a packrat, but it would cost too much money to convert the files and most of them are available on line somewhere. In order to get new technology you have to lose old technology.
Yes, if Apple markets their "Pro" machines as a top tier tool for creative industry Professionals, they should not merely pay lip service to the Pro Community, and actually have highly trained employees and a Pro Support sector. All your concerns should have been addressed PRIOR to the 2019 Mac Pro's release. Avid should ALSO address all these issues (I mean, no Quicktime?? come on!) so industry pro's don't experience uncalled for downtime or loss of tools.
Thanks, Neil, for expressing these concerns, for your tips (do you take tips? Cuz you're looking pretty busker-esque these days) and for sharing this process. Plus the cat stuff. Cheers
GBS Records buskeresque! Hahahah ... I might need to make a shirt!
@@NeilParfittMusic Yeah, a Glen Hansard paisley shirt! Made of hair! Speaking of buskers, you, Neil, remind me a LOT of my pal and client, Quinn Fallon. You guys could be brothers: ruclips.net/video/UEawHfgtVRA/видео.html
Lip service is all that is necessary for the 'pro' market. All that matters is being the product thought of as the 'pro' brand, not actually being better than anything. Marketing is the ONLY thing that matters. Then the people will make the excuses for you.
This is super informative. In late 2018 I built a pc because I needed more processing power than what Apple was offering at the time. I’ve switched all my work flows to accommodate the change. I enjoy using windows 10, but I miss logic and the years of familiarity I had with Mac OS kernel. I’m slowly building up my knowledge of windows 10. Antidotal to my experience, windows doesn’t seem to handle audio as well as Mac OS. Though video work seems to smoke Mac OS by having more horse power on pc.
All in all if I ever find a need to switch back to Mac OS, I’ll likely buy a Mac Pro based on your recommendation in this video. Thank you, for your thorough analysis.
Loss of QT support in Avid isn't too suprising. When Apple introduced QuickTime X they drastically cut the featureset (QTX export is a joke), so a lot of apps continued to use the old QT7 APIs... which disappeared in, you guessed it, Catalina.
Hi Neil - thanks for the update with this video. My stock replies when my viewers ask if I'm getting the 'New MacPro' is 1) I'll let you know when I put up a GoFundMe (I refer to it as the Go F-Me) page or 2) I'll buy it when they switch to the 64-Core AMD processor. And I wonder - do you think it will go to Apple Silicon in the future? I guess so. As an Apple shareholder, I like the benefits of Apple Silicon (cost control) but as an end-user, I will miss the ability to boot into Windows or efficiently run Windows via virtualization.
Avid is indeed the most frustrating company. I used to work for a company with one of the largest Avid installations in California. We had 3 different kinds of network storage. Dozens of Avid servers and probably more than 100 desktops with some version of Avid video edit capability.
We still had to wait forever to get service. And Avid is just bonkers on their hardware compatibility chart. Often taking so long that by the time it is released, the next model is out!
Apple and Avid: the unrelenting tag team of terror! 😀
Really good review ! I’m thinking to move from my 2013 Mac Pro to the base 2019, hope I will have the same good experience
Don’t do it! Check out the vid I posted the other day.
@@NeilParfittMusic I agree with your video, it's a bad value if you think in the overall CPU performance, but in the long term I will be able to replace the CPU, and also add new generation graphic card.
With the new Mac Pro using Apple Silicon, I will be always attached to their own devices / upgrades. This machine will be the last generation machine that I will have some freedom of upgrade on my own :-)
@@NeilParfittMusic or if I can best one is the 16 core ... But definitely I will be able to find the same CPU much cheaper outside apple :)
I had a similar experience with Apple support. I purchased an upgrade for the internal SSD, followed all the instructions provided on their website, yet the computer would not recognize the new SSD. I was on the phone with 2 different support techs who were basically reading back to me all the instructions I had already tried. Even going so far as to admit they were not familiar with the issue. Long story short, I figured it out on my own. Nonetheless, thanks for the update video. Are you still using Video Slave as your third party video app?
I’ve been using the video / Audio import since the protools update includes the video export beta a few weeks ago. So far so good.. except transcoding is balls slow
Yea, Massive X seems to be a trouble maker. And if I load up too many mastering plugs on on channel strip, that can overload a single core, but otherwise it’s great. How are you handling the quicktime issue?
Dudadius I’ve been using Video Slave (ans sometimes Logic X) as a workaround.
Interested to know what buffer setting you're using?
I have an iMac Pro with multiple peripherals and I tried Catalina for a few days and it kept hard crashing with I think kernel panics, although I don't know much the particulars. I gave up and switched back to Mojave which is much more reliable, although it has its own problems.
Man, Avid just sucks. They’ve been dragging their user base through the mud.
Jake Siener But they’ve only been doing this for 10 years. Give ‘em a chance.
Jake Siener It is even more infuriating considering the cost of their services and wares. They’re not exactly shy about being way up-market. Bottom line: they offer the highest cost, lowest satisfaction user experience in the market, period. Not awesome. I would be ecstatic to hear that the Pro Tools line was sold off. No company could possibly fuck it up more than Avid.
@@artysanmobile Pro Tools originally belonged to Digidesign, which was acquired by Avid. Nonetheless I agree with your comment wholeheartedly
I'm impressed that you got a spare part! I didn't think it was possible!
it was like calling a cell phone provider trying to change your plan. Took an hour but finally after an hour - sorted. But... WHY IS IT THIS DIFFICULT to get a PSU??
@@NeilParfittMusic Totally reminds me of dealing with phone companies - not a good sign.
What option is powerful enough for your needs on the Pc side instead of Mac?
I am considering upgrading to a new rack Mac Pro in '21, I wonder if I should wait until they get updated with ARM processors.... might take years...
What is your approach to software updates as a busy professional? Do you allow for automatic software updates?
Thanks, still at home, creating...
Logic Pro will run for 10 years on them i guess, wat is he using?
$480 cad is a great price for that I'd say, very surprising. I'm not sure the ARM movement will be rolling out that fast to make this machine obsolete before it's useful lifespan anyway. Seems like it should take a pretty long time to replace 28 core Intel machines with an ARM equivalent.
Hermann Björgvin Haraldsson agree, that’s what my apple business rep assured me when I got the mac pro a couple months ago.
apple did say their entire line up will the apple silicon in two years from start. whether that means the mac pro i can't say ofc.
they really should do an upgrade program for that machine tho.
i was thinking about e-waste and such and they should also make an upgrade package for the mac mini too.
doctor scoot it's one thing saying it but transitioning such high power machines from x86 won't be a two year thing I suspect. But I don't know
Dudadius after this video are you really going to trust a person who doesn’t know anything about how soon new products are launching? Also would you trust someone who’s trying to sell you a product?
@@robertp457 He's a longtime friend of mine, so I trust him more than most.
You're bang on about the need for a pro division, but I feel like Apple doesn't really care considering how much of their revenue is mac, then how much of that is from the pro user base.... it's really unfortunate as it was the pro user base that made apple what it is today when Steve Jobs came back... I guess it's all the knock on effect of naming the former CFO as the CEO?
well said.
Hi Neil. Thanks so much for the various videos. I'm in the market for an upgrade like you were and your sharing of insights and experiences is extremely valuable...and well done. Cheers
Best „Review“ of the Mac Pro out there ... from someone who really needs a machine like this. Good work!
6:08 the apple pro way, I left when they dropped multicam from the new final cut, last strand. Also that is just apple parts, used to be a tech for a apple certified repair shop and their parts service gives me nightmares, 8 years after the fact. 3 careers later, lol.
Final Cut Pro X has Multicam editing
amazing videos bro. Just got a mac pro and your videos are so freaking cool. All your experiences explained and shown. Keep it up!
Interesting PoV even if I'm not an Apple fan. But it's really awesome to hear your PoV from a true working professional with some high end requirements. It's too bad to hear you got shafted by Avid and have some of the hardware issues on a machine where you'd just again, expect everything to work but otherwise that's great to hear it's been going well.
Found this video on a whim and it's cool to hear your perspective! Very cheery and pleasant to watch, subbed.
Two series? Glad to see you busy and prospering
How did you fixed quick time export via avid ? I’m having the same problems
Using videoslave
I do agree with everything that you’ve said except I do have a question. When you said that the Mac Pro isn’t modular, when you can upgrade the cpu, ram, add hard drives, as well as internal sound interfaces, video accelerators, I/O cards, NVME RAID cards, and etc. How do you consider the Mac Pro not modular?
Apple is hustling it like it’s a magical gamechanging feature .. yet it’s no different than their previous tower offerings.. actually more crippled with their own ssd tech.
Very interesting insights thanks Neil ! your issue regarding Catalina is exactly why I brought back a brand new 16" MBP to Apple within a day. It should be TOTALLY possible to downgrade a Pro mac at least to the previous OS for all kinds of 3rd party compatibility issues to hit the ground running with a new machine. In this case Mojave. As I told the Apple Store people (who agreed) , it is a lose-lose situation for both Apple and the Pro user if I have to return a machine within 24hrs! I just don't get it...it does not make business sense. I was told I was not the 1st one ! LOL. Moreover, I am on Reaper now and not looking back. Have you tried it ?
Has dust been a problem with no filter?
Not so far, nope! I did the 6month finger wipe on the inside test.. barely a sprinkle. My room has food dust control though
Very cool stuff man! I notice graphic slow down sometimes with the stock video card and PTHDX when zooming in sometimes - you ever see that?
Thank you for these videos on the MP. I'm putting together my configs now. VERY helpful.
Wow, you crossed my mind the other day and I wondered how things were going with you and the new machine. I'm in the business as well and VERY familiar with what you were going through...glad to hear your shows went to production! Re: software, I was also in a similar situation having bought a new machine at the end of the year that came with Catalina. Man that was a nightmare, and to think Big Sur is due to come out in a matter of months and there are still plugin manufacturers suggesting we 'hold off' on installing Catalina. Anyway, thanks for the update!
A lot of people don't seem to understand the biggest reason for manufactures saying to hold off on Catalina: No more 32-bit support. Yes Catalina was buggy here and there but that wasn't the problem. Big Sur isn't going to change the 32-bit problem, but it also won't make it any worse. It's just something that people will have to deal with and adapt to.
Awesome camera! What kind is it?
One that doesn't stay in focus because I had it set to continuous focus tracking hahaha :). It's a Fujifilm X100F
I hope to upgrade soon. My Mac Pro is 10 years old now and I am unable to use the latest version of Logic Pro. Also, "everything" is slow now. It's kind of annoying. I'm just confused about which 3rd party stuff I need to replace the Apple stuff inside (and if it's even necessary?). The base model is way overpriced but does the value increase if you get a more expensive machine? It would be less hassle just to get a Mac Pro without worrying about replacing things but then am I wasting money. I've been researching this since December and I'm still unsure. What do you believe is the most important component for making music. I'm assuming RAM but I don't know. Maybe it's cores, or something else. I'm looking forward to your buying guide.
I’m going to be doing a buyers guide for music/audio /and will cover all this. The 16core is the minimum spec to buy. Otherwise, its a horrible value. Ram and storage can easily be added later.
It seems like the worst offenders with regard to Catalina compatibility are the big ones. I bet the original coder of the problem modules is long gone, they can't get it to work in 64-bit and they basically need to hire a specialist to fix it. It is still unforgivable; they've known this was coming for a very long time.
This should give you a sense of assurance that going with an Intel-based workstation was the *right* decision. I expect the big pro suites are going to take a very long time to release on ARM.
The question shouldn't be "when will this be made compatible again?" it should be "Why did Apple feel the need to put 32-bit apps to the guillotine?"
Not everything needs to be 64-bit. Browsers that run each extension and tab in its own process doesn't really need 64-bits. Dated games don't need to be such either.
Yes I agree having to deal with any of these pro services and having to re-explain everything over and over again is absolutely incredibly frustrating. I’ve got an ongoing thing with Apl right now and still not settled. Also, what camera do you use to shoot your videos and what do you use for audio. Your lighting looks great. Very impressed with your videos except every once in a while your camera refocuses.😄
Thanks and look forward to your next video
Awesome followup. I've noticed that every update with MacOS on my Mac Pro has screwed up permissions/ functionality with my Universal Audio gear. In an odd behavior I found that if I had UAD gear plugged in directly to the system it would give me issues, but by moving to the GPU thunderbolt cards the problems went away. If i used a blackout ux-a (thunderbolt ssd rack) and daisy chain off that, the main thunderbolt ports work fine.
Separately, Logic actually works decently on the apple Arm dev kit, though the lack of thunderbolt limits further testing. Naturally everything else audio is running through rosetta so that's not going to work. I don't expect the Mac Pro being arm based for a few years, too many existing issues, and even more will pop up moving forward. It does have me eyeballing moving back to windows though :(
same happens here on the Mac Pro with the UAD2 as well as my arrow on the laptop. Every sub update throws it out of whack
How much dust has it got inside?
Seriously Avid needs to fix the Quicktime - Catalina issue with Pro Tools asap.
Yep, this is something that I learned about in with the G5. Apple has been awful at supporting pro users for 20-25 years. I do remember the days when I could talk to someone who actually spoke english and knew about the OS. Sadly that was system 7 I think.
@neil where should I buy ram for my mac pro
I got my mine from nemix on Amazon
Remember Neil, the guy that runs AVID now, used to run a bank. That all I needed to know.. Thanks for the rant.. One reason I stayed on my trash can 2013 which still works great on Mojave.. Never went any further.. like Catalina .. Of course you had to!!
Totally agree on Mojave/Catalina with audio support. So frustrating.
What a great and fun video. If you sit farther back from the computer screen, the auto-focusing problems are less noticable.
So glad your machine is handling the workload! It’s really great to hear!!!
I’m sorry but I feel like the foundation of your issues is with the way Avid dose software development. In all fairness I don’t do the work that you do. However I seen the average trap a long time ago. They just don’t care because they feel like you won’t leave. There are so many other DAW’s out there and average just drags their feet. Really, I don’t think they care about the small independent user base. I only use ProTools to open and export OMS files.
PCI express is a totally expandable platform. If the industry doesn’t develop tools who is that poor it’s a bigger sign. Lastly, what other pieces of equipment do you have a spare power supply for. It’s design not to fail.
Another great video!
I had pre-sale questions about a Mac Pro screw on their website photos for the MPX modules and I had to email Tim Cook’s office. It was much the same experience having to bounce to four different people before I found somebody who even knew what I was talking about. Unacceptable they don’t have a niche group of public facing employees who can focus just on this one business line. Doesn’t have to be that many people given the small user base, but please Apple, give us somebody who even knows what this machine is!
Hey, may I ask where you got your screensaver from?
Yep it’s just the stock Catalina screensaver
Thanks for the update Neil. Glad things are bouncing back 4 u.
That PSU story ugh I assumed they had some level of CS above Apple store for that machine
Absolutely LOVE your tee shirt! Also - I’m happy to hear your experience with the Pro, that’s a huge investment - and glad to know it’s been good. Congrats!
Just got a ton of emails saying not to update to Big Sur yet, so it looks like there's going to be another wait. FWIW, I'm only using Logic Pro X in my 24 core 2019 Mac Pro, and everything I need to use is working fine. Only problem I have with my Apogee Symphony MkII is that after it's been on for close to 24 hours, video/audio playback speeds get extremely fast and I need to reboot to fix the problem. But, that same issue was happening with my former 12 core trashcans, so it must be an Apogee issue. All in all, though, I LOVE the machine.
yeah it's good to have a running spreadsheet of all your 3rd party plugins, apps and drivers.. and only shift once everything is supported properly. Otherwise, you're a public beta tester :(
Having been an Xserve customer I felt like I had a front-row seat to the decaying of Apple's enterprise support in real-time as every time I attempted to order Xserve parts it was more painful than the last until you couldn't even get somebody on the phone who knew that the Xserve had even existed.
Love the Shirt! Where is it from?
\
Congratulations on the shows!!! I could only imagine how stressful that was.
On the Avid issue. it will sound annoying my saying, but that is why workstation sellers have or should have ISV certification with Pro software. what is the case with Avid Ultimate? I mean, if your income depends on that software you should seriously consider buying equipment combos (OS+hardware+drivers) that have been certified to work with that application. In those cases, software, and hardware vendors have or should have dedicated lines to handle failures of certified applications.
I would love to see your workflow from start to finish. I'm so used to working in Steinberg Nuendo and Cubase with VST and VSTi (and that's after years of using nothing but an Ensonic EPS followed by a Korg X3) to see a true PRO workflow would be incredible. Otherwise, you have hands down the best personal studio I've ever seen! Awesome stuff from a fellow composer!!!
Thanks Aaron! Yes it's still on my list - it'll just be slow as it'll take a lot of work and I'm already slammed on some contracts atm.
HahHah About the call. I am on 2nd EPI right now for a show in LA, but next time just zoom record the call-:)
After 10 years of using pro tools I just jumped ship and switched to Cubase. I was so sick of waiting for Avid to update things that are essential and features their entire user base has asked for for years. Something as simple as track folders should have been added a long time ago. There was a little bit of a learning curve but it's been well worth it.
Thanks Bro for the feedback. I was going to upgrade from my 2008’ Mac Pro but something been telling me to hold off. I have (2) 27” iMacs 2015/2017’ maxed out RAM so I’m good for now.
This was my original posting from earlier this year ;
“I’ll be getting this new Mac Pro, I still have my 2008’ Mac Pro (I paid $5,000.00 for the computer and $999.00 per Screen of which I have two) with 16GB RAM running OS X Sierra, this will be a great upgrade for me with the new Mac Pro.
Programs I currently use :
Pro Audio :
LOGIC PRO X 10.3.4
Reason 10
Komplete 10
UAD Plugins (All)
SoundToys Plugins (All)
WaveArts Plugins (All)
Audio Interfaces : Apogee Symphony IO, Symphony 64 PCIe Card, Element 24 & Duet 2.
Pro Digital Art :
Final Cut Pro X 10.3.4
Blackmagic Design Resolve 15
Pixologic ZBRUSH 2020’
Cinema 4D
Autodesk Suite Entertainment Creation 2011 {Maya, Mudbox & Sketchbook Pro}
Adobe® Creative Suite® 5 Master Collection
Corel Painter 12
Harmony/Toon Boom
Digital Drawing Tablets : Wacom Cintiq & Intous
*All the same software installed on my mid-2010’ MacBook Pro 💻 running High Sierra 10.13 & a 2015’ 5K iMac 🖥 running Mojave.
**Never had to purchase any anti-virus software for any of my Macs.
***Upgraded from ZBrush 2019’ to 2020
I’m glad that this new Mac Pro will actually be modular and have PCIe slots like my 2008’. Gonna Max it out and be done with it, hopefully it’ll last me 10/11 years like my original did.
Good job apple.
TheGift of7™️
#MuSétiś™
#MusicSurroundsUs© “
Great content and information, I’m hold off until the new 2022/2023 Mac Pros drop with the new chipsets and bugs been worked out. Keep it up. Hope to link one day.
Stay alert, Stay safe & Stay strong. Dap👊🏽🎶
one additional point of excellent agreement: Apple is now a provider of professional "plant & equipment". If you had bought a lathe or something like that for your workshop and needed parts for it, there'd be a parts division and you would speak directly to a guy who understands the equipment and its parts catalogue. ok it might only be a national department for each country, but they can process the parts transaction and order it in their internal system, and perform other basic service functions, e.g. to dispatch repair or arrange a date in the genius bar. that's what 'AppleCare' looks like for me, if i was paying $17k (its like bloody $30 in au dollaroonis)! also available for the lifetime of the machine, even if at a price. apple are cutting off valuable subscription income the dumb buggers.
How many SSD drive can fit in this Mac? Thanks for your review! :)
Yikes - yeah I get it - I've got some choice words for Avid myself - wish they would stop being - well - I won't say it here. Sorry to hear the of woes with Apple phone support, too. Yes - they should know better. I've been making backup jump drives of my MacOS of choice in case of system failure (Mavericks). There are ways to download older versions of the OS (you have to hunt for the official links - they're out there) - sounds like the new MacPro not able to have those installed? Anyways - glad to hear the update and that the new MacPro is working well. Maybe there one in my future? But first some new sample libraries! ;-)
In the days of the Xserve, you had to go through their business division to order one and support was given by them. This meant that when you ordered it, you had to pay via a bank wire transfer to the Apple Toronto bank account number. But when you called for parts, you could order spare ones easily.
(You coudln't really bring an xserve into a store, and Apple knew many customers had racks full of them so not realiostic to ask them to bring it to an apple store.
Are you registered with Apple as a small business? or just regular retail customer?
I am also in Canada and have had a terrible time getting my first ordered Mac Pro replaced as it continuously crashes on me (which we all know shouldn't happen) and because of the lack of pro support, I spent A MONTH, yes, A MONTH trying to convince apple they needed to replace my Pro... After all that time I couldn't part with a semi-working machine while also deep into projects to just wait for Apple to send me a new one... so after two weeks of more convincing, they sent me a ... get ready for it ... base ... line... model!!!!!!! Yep! Then, for the next two weeks while they kept repeating their emails to send back the other one (which was not baseline... ) I finally had someone call me that could take back the baseline model and replace it with the proper specs... It arrives tomorrow... I have spent a total of $14,000.00 additional to try to make this Mac work in my studio all the while it was their CPU failing (which I sent them a panic kernel on day one with the proof right in it that it was their chip failing, but no, I had to change out the interface, or the PCIe cards, etc, etc... spending, spending, etc.... Apple should give me back that money or allow me to keep the other Mac.. haha. I've documented it all and have thought about releasing the entire experience.
What are those big monitors? Meyer?
The Speakers? Genelec.
@@NeilParfittMusic thanks. And nice followup vid. I'm very curious to see how the pro lineup pans out with the architecture change.
I have a Mac Pro 7,1 and I don't regret buying it either, My last Mac Pro was a 5,1 first owner and I had it for 10yrs, I will be buying the Apple silicon Mac Pro that might take 2-3 yrs that's a long time to be waiting if you need something now
similar apple support experience here
Great video. Thx for sharing your trials! Coming from a video/photo dude!
Unfortunately since Steve passed Cook has turned the whole company into an iPhone/iPad company. They used to have a a Pro Division. Actually , they’re whole tech support was pro. One could call and the techs knew about all the third party music companies making apps for the Mac and they knew how all of them worked. Back in the early G4 days and early ProTools days, when Logic was still Emagic from Germany I utilized their tech support so much , everything worked flawlessly. After a year of dealing with Apples tech support, I took the test to become a tech and aced their Level 1 & 2 and got Apple certified just for my own amusement as a Apple tech for Panther & Tiger. Now when I need help, I end up figuring it all out on my own . Their supervisors are literally stupid. They don’t know anything about Logic X and especially know absolutely nothing about 3rd party plugins . My 2018 MacBook Pro was a a piece of shit and I had it sent in 4 times and had to have my attorney threaten to sue Apple then they finally sent a 2019 direct from China to replace . I retro fitted 4 Intel 2011 towers complete overhaul and they clock in just under my fully blown iMac Pro
The company has gone to hell in a hand basket . There is no more real tech support and no one, I mean no one knows what they’re doing over there anymore. Cook has driven Jobs incredibly company into the ground. It’s a real shame . They were originally so far ahead of anyone else
Now they’re just really polite idiots can only sell or give bad info on their own products -no real support or anyone who is competent. I’ve called so many times to see if I could reach someone with any knowledge and there simply isn’t anyone. They won’t honor services either unless you legally threaten them as I had to. As a long long time Mac user and industry professional with a lot of credits you think they would be conscious of they pro users and be a little accommodating, but they couldn’t care less . They used to be accommodating to everyone whether a user was even pro or not, originally. They were an incredible company back then . Cook is a piece of shit for what he’s done to Apple
Good info, worth turning off auto focus or maybe setting spot focus, it keeps focusing in on your background when you move
Hearing your story about the hazzle to get a spare PSU, I am even more convinced that Apple only employes _Mac_ Donald's professionals
How do you experience noise from the Mac Pro? Maybe too far away from where you sit in the studio?
Great update...
Can you share some of the stuff you have produced on it?
Thx! nothing is out yet - but I can say that the composing is on a Canadian preschool show called 'Ranger Rob' (Season 3) and the synths/various score tech is on 'American Gods' (Season 3)
Hey Neil. I'm curious what workaround you use for the Quicktime issue. I imagine you need to do a fair amount of "Bounce to Quicktime" for producer reviews? Did you do the Video Slave thing, or maybe keep a Mojave system somewhere where you do this intermediary work?
Great video. Totally agree with you on so many points. Don't even know where to start.
Avid's support for Apple software has gone down over the years. From what I've heard, it's because of outsourcing and a reduced commitment to the Mac, largely because Apple stopped making machines that professionals wanted to use. I had a couple of conversations with people at NAMM about this. Also, Apple doesn't make it easy to work with them, especially on lower-priority items like audio. If it works in Logic Pro X, then Apple doesn't really care. Look at all the Izotope software issues over the past year.
Apple is definitely not about supporting its pro users. A close relative of mine worked for Apple and told me over and over, "Apple cares about iPhones, watches, and consumer computers. That's it. Everything else is a hobby." I bought an iMac in 2017 after 9 years with the "classic Mac Pro," which I modded and upgraded in several ways. The trash can Mac Pro just wasn't a pro machine. It was a souped up consumer machine. Apple wants to lead the industry, which they can, but they can't lead professionals who actually need computers to meet their needs. Apple sees consumers as needing to go where Apple sends the puck.
I'm glad you're happy with your Intel Mac Pro it sounds like a beast. I'd probably still get one now, you're the perfect resource for setting it up hehe.
My 16 inch MacBook crashes at about 140 sample library tracks with Logic but I don't have AC so on hot days less tracks.
Yeah the thermals will start clocking that countdown and it’s going to glitch out with cpu overloads