My Grandfather a few weeks before his death told the family he was a member of the Long Range Desert Group. And your videos have help reveal what that wonderful man was a part of.
Justo Oakley i have worked with a few of these amazing men later in life . it seems to be a common thread among these nen to keep their exploits secret. some even taking it to the grave with them . giants among men . rip all of these true heroes .
@@ItsJustMorris Hi trying to find out my dads history in the RAF in north Africa cannot find anything about him he was stationed at RAF Bleader . A lady tried to do his history but she said could not find anything. From what he told mum he used to go and find downed British planes to destroy them . She said he could have been with the LRDG but he never said His name was Robert Pattinson mcquiggan.
@@michaelmcquiggan1252 , go to the LRDG facebook group and apply for membership . Ask them about your Dad He may have been 'RAF attached Long Range Desert Group'
I've always been a proud Kiwi, for a very small country with a small population Kiwi's have achieved a lot in the world. This vid just reinforces my pride so thanks. Just wish the rest of the world would at least investigate the claim that a Kiwi farmer named Pierce flew before or around the same time as the Wright Brothers but being from a little country at the bottom of the world the news had not spread before the American success was widely transmitted around the world as the first powered flight.
I never understood this type of thinking. I mean your ancestors are English. Suppose it's what people do people are proud of which particular part of the country they're from for Christ's sake
@@GM-yc3rl ... New Zealanders are not just of english ancestry. The first colonists were but since then, people from many nations and ethnic groups have created an National Identity that is as distinct as it is colouful. My parents were Dutch but I am a Kiwi. Also, do not for get the Maori people who did their bit in WW1 and WW2.
Excellent choice for a Battlestorm Life series! :D Once again, your storytelling is first-class, your visuals simple yet showing all relevant details, and your perspectives are multi-dimensional. This is so much better than history class. I think the Italians had the capabilities to defeat the British, but lacked the necessary leadership. The Italians could have, with their resources (particularly their large supply of trucks), aggressively patrolled the desert and hunted down these motorized groups. Even if they didn't destroy the recon forces, they would hamper their ability to gain intelligence, and limit their range. The hunting would have hammered out any shortcomings in the Italian system, improved their maps and intelligence, and given their soldiers valuable experience in desert warfare. But their leaders did not try this, nor did they apply the lessons in small-unit tactics that the Germans had successfully employed only a year earlier.
I'm glad you like it :) It's true that the Italians had more resources than the British at this stage of the conflict. To be fair to Graziani, it sounds as though he was pushed into doing what he did on the coast with the 10th Army. But by the same token, there were more options available to him. And for the man who wrote Italy's armoured and mobile warfare doctrine, you'd think he'd be the first to say yes to said schemes. Like you said, they could have hunted the LRDG, or even counterattacked with their own mobile patrols. It makes you wonder why they didn't, and the leadership issue is definitely relevant here
Maybe the well known lack of guts and aggression at the time, and the unwillingness to die in another country? You can have all the equipment and tools to do the job, but if your troops are not motivated and well trained, you're not going to make it... The quality of your troops and the leadership from above decide the outcome of the mission. Great Commanders are made even greater by great soldiers... 🦂 🦇 🇿🇦 🦇 🦂
My sisters husbands dad ,was a founder member of the lonng range desert group. He said this ,he was in a gaurds tank reg. One day they asked would any one like yo volunteer for a new special forces unit highly dangerous. The whole reg volunteered, Why it was horrible being in a steel box in the desert and if you met a German tank you died.
My dad spent 4 1/2 years in North Africa and Italy in WW2 , he drove alone quiet a few times out to Siwa and other camps with spares and supplies to the LRDG , he loved the Chev trucks 👌🏻
My great grandad was in Kings Dragoon Guards and was out in North Africa and Italy as well he drove Chev trucks as well funny story this is the Germans were spying on KDG and wanted Chevs knowing they were built well they pinched them all in middle of night and KDG had to wait until Germans were defeated in one of desert battles to get Chevs back from them.
Aah , First mention of the amazing Hobart who later developed so many vehicles that were to prove decisive on D-DAY ...the Funnies . what an ingenious man .
I honestly don't know much military history. The main reason I like the LRDG is because I have been told I had relatives in it. I didn't take in the details because the same day my second cousin said she was into cage fighting.
As in all things in life, there is no one single reason for any result. Rather, it is the confluence of factors -- each acting upon the other. In the case of the Italian defeat in Africa, the LRDG's operations created doubts about British weaknesses, produced imagined capabilities and planted the seed of defeat in the mind of the Italian commander -- who commanded a less than first rate military formation to begin with. This was a good example of the Indirect Approach as espoused by B.H. Liddell Hart that produced results without attempting to destroy the enemy army -- as von Clauswitz would have demanded.
The Long Range Desert Group has a strong claim to the first Special Forces unit in the British Army. .Manned initially by New Zealanders, in 1940 the unit became the LRDG with members drawn from British Guards and Yeomanry regiments and Rhodesians.So successful were the LRDG patrols, that when the Special Air Service were formed, they often relied on their navigational and tactical skills to achieve their missions.After victory in North Africa the LRDG relocated to Lebanon before being sent on the ill-fated mission to the Dodecanese Islands in the Aegean.Serving independently, when the Germans overwhelmed and captured the British garrisons, many LRDG personnel escaped using their well-honed skills
Popsky. Between the WW1 Light Cars and the WW2 LRDG was Popski's Private Army, "PPA" to those in the know. PPA did fine work on desert navigation, along with good stuff about the capabilities of vehicles of the time. LRDG would have had an even harder time without Popski, who with PPA is worth a show all his own.
Popskis Private Army wasn't formed until October 1942. The LRDG had been in operation for 2 years then....he learnt most of what he knew from the LRDG. He did do a few months in 1942 behind enemy lines working with local Arab's but again this was long after the LRDG had been formed and effective. Most of the PPA's work was actually in Italy, after the LRDG's main role had finished.
Great video, do you know of maps available on the internet that were used by the LRDG for navigation by the long range desert group, appart from the Bagnold sun compass ?
People forget that there were many Rhodesians and New Zealanders, not just English in the LRDG. My dad was badly wounded in Cyrenaica losing an eye, which is featured in the maps in this video. I am glad this area is mentioned, as my dad was never in WW2, but the battles before WW2 were dangerous too, including the Battle of Cyrenaica.
My paternal grandfather , Gustav "Gus" Suhr was a Bren Guner of 22 Batalion B'Co NZEF, he did a few "stints" with the LRDG....As did my maternal grandfather Eric Feek , 21st Battalion HQ Reccon Co, he was a Bren Carrier driver & mechanic, he could drive & fix anything. Eric told me about going out and placing explosives in Jerry fuel dumps , and mines under vehicles. He said the could hear them "go up" in the morning when Jerry woke up. Eric was captured at Sedi Aziz with 5th Brgde HQ Co.27/11/41.
Hi Tim. As usual I love your stuff. Sorry to be a weapon spotter but I believe the LRDG were equipped with a 3.7 centimetre Bofors anti tank gun not a 3.7 mm Bofors anti aircraft gun.
My dad was in a RAMC field ambulance part of the LRGD tested for the SAS failed that but spent most of his time in ambulance first aid stations and hospitals behind enemy lines
Do you remember where you read the bit about the vehicles initially having the desert rat logo on first vehicles to deceive spies ? Was it Kennedy Shaw account?
@@jasholden9741 Bofors were the guys who made them, and they made a large variety of guns. The one you're talking about is the designed Anti Air (although it's more like anti everything) 40mm Automatic Bofors. The 37 one is the breech loaded 3.7cm anti tank gun. Edit: The video was probably talking about the QF 3.7 Inch heavy anti aircraft gun.
At what point did O'Connor replace Hobart (later of Hobart's funnies)? And, do you have any more details on the small route between Cairo and Siwa through the Qattarra Depression?
It is the same Hobart who later created the "funny" tanks. Unfortunately I don't have an exact date for Hobart's replacement by O'Connor. Surprisingly, I've just double checked in Playfair's British Official History of the Mediterranean and Middle East and there's zero mention of Hobart at all. The ship HMAS Hobart is mentioned, even though it only had a very small part to play in Somaliland (so small I didn't even mention it in my video on the Italian invasion of Somaliland) so I can only assume he must have been replaced before the war broke out with Italy at the very latest. The books on the LRDG don't mention him in great detail. And I don't have any detail about the route between Cairo and Siwa, sorry. Most of the maps in the books I've used have been awful. I've actually been relying on Google Maps a lot to try and find the locations of specific villages, because the books talk about places their own maps don't even show. I based the map in this video from Playfair's book (Map 19)
I feel like I'm getting nearer a proper answer for you. I've just bought a new book called "The Sting of the Scorpion" by Mike Morgan, and in it it states that the Qattara Depression was discovered in the First World War by Captain Claud H. Williams, who commanded the 5th Light Car Patrol. He wanted to see if Siwa could be attacked from the east, but failed to get through the salt marsh and realised the Depression was impenetrable to wheeled vehicles. It's also mentioned that "it was a full ten years before they made a proper survey and could verify William's key discovery, about which he wrote a War Office handbook - Report on a Military Geography of the North Western Desert of Egypt." But then doesn't say what he'd discovered - other than the depression itself. So it's unclear if Williams found the route through the Depression. Later in the book, it says that at the end of the Long Range Patrol's first trip into the desert they went across the Qattara track. In Clayton's own words - "We left Siwa on the 18th to Cairo for lunch on the 19th, by the fast route across the Qattara Depression which Ali Fudail and I knew so well from our detailed survey work there twelve years before." Going off Clayton's words, the route through Siwa was discovered by himself and Ali Fudail (whoever he is) in 1928. In the book "The Men Who Made the SAS: The History of the Long Range Desert Group", it quotes Kennedy Shaw - 'In the basin the heat is stifling... No hill gives shade, no tree breaks the monotony of the salt marshes. Drive your truck two yards from the beaten track and it will be sunk to its axles in the quicksands.'
north africa was the beginning of some of the most elite military units of WW-2' , mobs for jobs they called bash and dash gangs , the Small Scale Raiding Force , the long range desert group , popski's private army , the Sterling brothers and the SAS , lord earl jellico and the SBS , lord lovat and the lovat scouts , the commandos , the special service unit , force -601' , the boys were waging all out war
Nowadays just use a open roofed Ferrari to charge in at 200 MPH. Or a F1 car. However I'm very intruiged at this division. The unsung heroes of the early North African Campaign. You should reveal more heroes that are not known in the war. Great Job!!!
I disagree with your choice of a Ferrari or an F1 car for one simple reason. They have no real carrying capacity. The reason why Bagnold choose the Chevrolet Trucks was because they could carry the supplies needed for the kind of trips that he contemplated their making, and that they actually did. I drive a Subaru and get about 300 plus miles on roads to a tank of gas. For me to stretch that out to 1,500 miles (and cross-country, desert miles at that) means that I'd have to carry sufficient fuel to be able to refuel AT LEAST 5 times. And that does not include carry food, weapons, ammunition and other supplies.
... Their job was to see and not BE seen. When they saw an inviting target, they let rip but most of the time they were holed up doing recon on the enemy and setting them up for bombing raids or a visit by the SAS, at a much later date. The intelligence they gathered did much for the war effort in hampering the supply routes for the Italians and Germans. Brave men and very sneaky !
my dad was in LRDG, heard many stories, when was disbanded, then served as a Palestine Policeman until pull out..the old man was a spot bollock mechanic...sorry folks no SAS story here...
The Italians Obviously where not ready for battle but the British had no way to know that for sure so having a group like the LRDG was a logical to harass the enemy and gather intelligence.
What could have been mentoned is that without the LRDG, the famous SAS would have not existed. When Stirling took his men on their first mission, it was a parachute jump in a sandstorm. Half of his men and most of his equipement were never found.They never were in fact. Still M.I.A., presumed dead. The rest, including Sterling, had to be rescued by the LRDG. After that debacle, Sterling asked for the LRDG to ferry them about, until the SAS got their own transport. Their now famous Jeeps. Sterling even nicked the LRDG's best navigator. The original LRDG were all Kiwis because Command wanted tough, self sufficient men and the NZ hill country farmers fit the bill perfectly. Half the NZ Division volunteered for the job. The rest is history, sadly mostly forgotten.
hi is there anyway i can check on names of the men that were in the lrdg icannot find any info into my dads n africa ca pain he was in the Raf but that is were everything ends
In book "The Sting of the Scorpion" it mentions that the "LRDG Association Nominal Roll" is the most complete record of members of the LRDG. However, not every veteran who served with the LRDG joined the Association, so while it is the most complete record, it isn't a full list of all the members that ever joined the LRDG. What was his name? Is it "McQuiggan"?
... There seems to be no real reason to it. Later additional patrols were given the G, S and Y designation. The Kiwis all named their trucks with place names from NZ. They pretty much did what thay wanted to do and that was to make life difficult for their enemies. They would spend weeks out in the desert reporting every movement on the coast road and getting it bombed, as well as swanning about in the Sand sea, causing havoc. Check it out. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group
Great video. My grandfather was an officer in the British Indian Army. He killed lots of Germans in North Africa and was in N. Africa before the arrival of Monty. He lied about his age in order to get into the BI Army, he was considered to be too old by regular standards. He used to swim a mile upstream and then a mile downstream in the local Indian River. He literally bet a group of people that he could win a marathon in a bar - and proceeded to collect from every last one of the dolts that bet against him. He was a man's man, and a wonderful man whom I deeply miss dearly every day. He hunted man eating tigers and leopards along with Jim Corbett. (Look it up.) He was also a hemophiliac who if he had been wounded seriously during battle he would have bled to death. And wiping out Germans was his job. And he did it well. I am named after him, and have some of the same characteristics. And sometimes TIK, your comments annoy me about economics while you appear to be living in the UK. You are not an economist, you are an historian. And a good one at that.But I read the works of PhD economists and have seen the reports by the London School of Economics (LSE) and the International Monetary Find (IMF) in two separate studies that showed neoliberal economics is a failed theory. All it does is enrich the already rich. In the US 60% of wealth is inherited, meaning the recipients DID NOT work for it. How does that fit within you Libertarian outlook, and I know you are Libertarian as you stated that taxes are a form of theft. They're not. They are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. If you want to dodge all taxes might I suggest you relocate to Botswana, or some African war torn nation, where your historical brilliance would be counted for naught. But you wouldn't have to pay any taxes. I suggest you shut it on the economics tripe. You Germans are far too ideological, and too fixed in your thinking. That is part of the reason for your people losing that Battle Of Britain, and if you want to argue with me about that I'll suggest you read, "The Battle of Britain: The Narrow Margin." Or maybe you can peruse "Tank Rider" about how those benighted communists under Stalin, a very vile dictator, but smart enough to finally let his generals direct the war, beat the Wehrmacht all to Hades, and back again. After the Battle of Kursk, your lot were basically finished. And my grandfather was at the Battle of El Alamein. Just how did that turn out for Rommel? Let's face a fact - the Fascist nations lost the war, and the liberal democracies won the war. The GI Bill was one of the greatest success stories of the US. And it was socialist in nature. I'm either a democratic socialist, or a socialist democrat. One of the rules that is held by people such as myself is pretty simple. No one party rule. Ever. The NHS, when not run by the Tories, does a pretty damned good job. Compare and contrast with the nightmare that is 'frei markt' US medicine, which is based upon grubbing for money rather than doing that which is right. I may stop watching your channel just because of you ideological economics. You're not an economist, plsy to your strength and be a decent historian.
That was thrilling. I really like these small unit operations like the SAS and the Brandenburgers. One thing I've always wondered: Why was the Italian morale in ww2 so terrible? I know they had a lot of leadership issues, but it seems that the average Italian soldier didn't have much motivation to fight compared to the other nations.
The Italians weren't very warlike, so their best and brightest weren't eager to join the army, even as officers. Italy lacked a Middle Class, which is where Germany/France/Britain's best officers usually came from. The middle class was the best place to produce large numbers of self-educating officers who would be interested in studying war, learning from it, and innovating. As a result, Italian officers were known for intellectual sloth, living high, and neglecting the welfare of their men. Not a good combination.
Well said, without being rude... You've explained what I thought, but couldn't put to paper.. I love the Italians, their food, their country, their cars, and their woman. But as soldiers, no. And as rugby players 🤔...... they are getting there.... 😬😬. 🦂 🦇 🇿🇦 🦇 🦂
I like your scottish accent. Would you write something on the Fall of Hong Kong Xmas 1941. There is a book "The Eastern Fortress" on Amazon that you may be interested in. It was a heroic resistance at the odd of 1:3 against the Japanese Imperial Army .In eighteen days over 1800 Commonwealth troops died and many more died in POW camps later. The Royal Scots battalions in particular made huge sacrifice. Thx
I think u made a mistake - 3.7 mm couldn't be carried on a truck! It was big and heavy But there's a photo of 3mm AA-Gun on stripped truck... maybe its a truck of LRDG? pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:3inch20cwtAAgunPeerlessLorryWWI.jpg
+TIK hey TIK, my dear Historyman, do you know, what Rommel's best answer was to LRDG? (hint: his name starts with A and his role and life was kinda screwed up in a nice romantic movie, incl. "la Binoche" ... : ) I have two sources about his (tiny) unit's role, one of them is in Hungarian - and it was first published in 1943(!) by A himself, it is a kind of "short novel book" - with everything "militarily interesting" self-censured. The other one is, however, a quite recent, thorough study, about one specific mission - and in English! (p.ex. whatever relevant radioing the British intercepted - with all ref codes, etc.) Do you feel this interesting? : ) Should I try to provide you with more info on this? : ) yours, limbekcs gm ail (erhh... Jim? ale!!! : )
oops, looks like I kind of used this "A code" historically, as much as a fairly popular "chase book" author (count Széchenyi Zsigmond) was only allowed to (re-)publish his book (in the 1960's Hungary) about their chase tour (in the Lybian desert in 1935), if he keeps A's name as A. And he did. Same way as he kept his British (=Imperialist!!) wife's name W in his "Indian chase book" (oops, international title: "Nahar!") - again, Imperialist W "got" long divorced when Nahar! was re-published (via post-war "cleaning off" aristocrats - yet Sz Zs stayed - but this is already a quite different story of patriotism... : ) (sorry, just stories from the backyard of cultural repression - or whatever a reader realized of it...)
sorry, should have written first that mentioning of oversized tyres made me write all this : ) I mean, really, this is what A. as well as Sz. do mention as a (minimal) requirement to get through the desert further: at least two other cars, water, fuel, SKILL (as to how to get the half sand-sunk car out with the others - and of course how to read the trails of the desert), and luck (c.f. "Inshallah") nice old histories... : )
Only just seen this comment. It was a while ago, but I think I meant this gun, which is 94mm (3.7 inch - not millimetres) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_3.7-inch_AA_gun?wprov=sfla1
Your comments at the end besmirch NZ diggers in a way that I'm uncomfortable with. I've grown up hearing only about the Brits or Australian army battles. Your tale of history seems to be more of the same. I'd been told about my grandad by many but could never find much substance other than his service record, (corrected 15 years after the fact and awarded his medals. Arrived in Egypt 1939 in the first Echelon, injured in Tunisia, returned 1945. I'd been told there was a book he was in all my life. 'The Raiders' Desert Strike Force. Read the book. Book isn't about Pop, it's about David Stirling? Pop is mentioned page 67. Read page 68, wtf? David Stirling can get F%$#&D. Admits himself 3 officers, made 2 privates do all the work and when they break down and are stuck for 6 days in the bloody Sahara Desert with half a pint of water between them, the book says 'they drew straws', (my grandad told a different story)the send them off on foot with a pistol. Upon gleaning that information, I contacted the NZDF where I'd got his woeful service record and was told that the real records were kept in London? Wtf? The War Diaries were declassified in 2010. I have to travel there for access. Access that has been withheld from Diggers themselves and families all this time. It really is a deep betrayal that will be brought to light. This is your notice that if I can confirm it as it appears, I'm not going to feel the same about how you have spoken about their contribution. You're a bloody disgrace.
What!! Did you think the Italians had no recon units, both on the ground and in the air? We all know how tyre tracks can show up like an X ray in the desert sands. Then, were the Italians so naive as not to foresee such an operation in their flank, against vital routes and communication. The LRDG was not successful overall. There was one operation where the Italians trapped them in a mountain pass and annialated the force. And in another seaborne attack some 300 allied men were lost. Your story is from Hollywood.
My Grandfather a few weeks before his death told the family he was a member of the Long Range Desert Group. And your videos have help reveal what that wonderful man was a part of.
Justo Oakley i have worked with a few of these amazing men later in life . it seems to be a common thread among these nen to keep their exploits secret. some even taking it to the grave with them . giants among men . rip all of these true heroes .
Respect to him.
@@ItsJustMorris Hi trying to find out my dads history in the RAF in north Africa cannot find anything about him he was stationed at RAF Bleader . A lady tried to do his history but she said could not find anything. From what he told mum he used to go and find downed British planes to destroy them . She said he could have been with the LRDG but he never said His name was Robert Pattinson mcquiggan.
@@michaelmcquiggan1252 , go to the LRDG facebook group and apply for membership . Ask them about your Dad He may have been 'RAF attached Long Range Desert Group'
@@davidharrison6615 Yeah I wish Grandad wrote a book about it all. He never said much about it.
love this my grandfather was a Gordon highlander who went on to the lrdg only to be picked for the sas much respect
"Much respect" is an Amerikwan ghetto term....
my uncle was also LRDG ,they probably knew each other.
I've always been a proud Kiwi, for a very small country with a small population Kiwi's have achieved a lot in the world. This vid just reinforces my pride so thanks. Just wish the rest of the world would at least investigate the claim that a Kiwi farmer named Pierce flew before or around the same time as the Wright Brothers but being from a little country at the bottom of the world the news had not spread before the American success was widely transmitted around the world as the first powered flight.
I never understood this type of thinking. I mean your ancestors are English. Suppose it's what people do people are proud of which particular part of the country they're from for Christ's sake
@@GM-yc3rl ... New Zealanders are not just of english ancestry. The first colonists were but since then, people from many nations and ethnic groups have created an National Identity that is as distinct as it is colouful. My parents were Dutch but I am a Kiwi. Also, do not for get the Maori people who did their bit in WW1 and WW2.
As soon as NZ is mentioned someone like you pipes up....
Excellent choice for a Battlestorm Life series! :D
Once again, your storytelling is first-class, your visuals simple yet showing all relevant details, and your perspectives are multi-dimensional. This is so much better than history class.
I think the Italians had the capabilities to defeat the British, but lacked the necessary leadership. The Italians could have, with their resources (particularly their large supply of trucks), aggressively patrolled the desert and hunted down these motorized groups. Even if they didn't destroy the recon forces, they would hamper their ability to gain intelligence, and limit their range.
The hunting would have hammered out any shortcomings in the Italian system, improved their maps and intelligence, and given their soldiers valuable experience in desert warfare. But their leaders did not try this, nor did they apply the lessons in small-unit tactics that the Germans had successfully employed only a year earlier.
I'm glad you like it :)
It's true that the Italians had more resources than the British at this stage of the conflict. To be fair to Graziani, it sounds as though he was pushed into doing what he did on the coast with the 10th Army. But by the same token, there were more options available to him. And for the man who wrote Italy's armoured and mobile warfare doctrine, you'd think he'd be the first to say yes to said schemes. Like you said, they could have hunted the LRDG, or even counterattacked with their own mobile patrols. It makes you wonder why they didn't, and the leadership issue is definitely relevant here
Maybe the well known lack of guts and aggression at the time, and the unwillingness to die in another country?
You can have all the equipment and tools to do the job, but if your troops are not motivated and well trained, you're not going to make it...
The quality of your troops and the leadership from above decide the outcome of the mission.
Great Commanders are made even greater by great soldiers...
🦂 🦇 🇿🇦 🦇 🦂
WW2 Buff here! Thanks for sharing this work. Very informative and interesting. Again thank you for your series! Paul from Orange, Ma. USA
You're welcome, more to come :)
Great work, I can't wait for the next one.
Great job!, i really enjoyed this.
These series of videos are truly great!.
My sisters husbands dad ,was a founder member of the lonng range desert group. He said this ,he was in a gaurds tank reg. One day they asked would any one like yo volunteer for a new special forces unit highly dangerous. The whole reg volunteered, Why it was horrible being in a steel box in the desert and if you met a German tank you died.
Brilliant, i really enjoyed this one!
My dad spent 4 1/2 years in North Africa and Italy in WW2 , he drove alone quiet a few times out to Siwa and other camps with spares and supplies to the LRDG , he loved the Chev trucks 👌🏻
My great grandad was in Kings Dragoon Guards and was out in North Africa and Italy as well he drove Chev trucks as well funny story this is the Germans were spying on KDG and wanted Chevs knowing they were built well they pinched them all in middle of night and KDG had to wait until Germans were defeated in one of desert battles to get Chevs back from them.
Great doc. we can see and understand better on histories of warfare
Excellent video, thank you! The animations of map movement are very helpful and instructive
thoughtful, clever and expertly presented, uniquely-so really, well-done and thank you..
Thank you sir!
Aah , First mention of the amazing Hobart who later developed so many vehicles that were to prove decisive on D-DAY ...the Funnies . what an ingenious man .
his "combined" arms doctrine almost cost the British defeat during Crusader.
I've always been fascinated with the LRDG since knowing about them from Commando comics.
This was nicely done!
It helps that I have a soft spot for the LRDG.
Glad you liked it, Thumper! I'll be doing the next parts soon :)
Is it just the LRDG or do you like other special forces units too?
I honestly don't know much military history. The main reason I like the LRDG is because I have been told I had relatives in it. I didn't take in the details because the same day my second cousin said she was into cage fighting.
Thumper I found out at my dad's funeral that he was in the LRDG. Was I proud or what?
@@jackthebassman1 Well my Grandfather was in the Hitler Jügend.
TravellingShoes They were all young men who did what they thought was best for their countries or to get away from conditions at home.
As in all things in life, there is no one single reason for any result. Rather, it is the confluence of factors -- each acting upon the other. In the case of the Italian defeat in Africa, the LRDG's operations created doubts about British weaknesses, produced imagined capabilities and planted the seed of defeat in the mind of the Italian commander -- who commanded a less than first rate military formation to begin with. This was a good example of the Indirect Approach as espoused by B.H. Liddell Hart that produced results without attempting to destroy the enemy army -- as von Clauswitz would have demanded.
The Long Range Desert Group's operations did far more than you give them credit for .
Well done! Looking forward to more LRDG history
Great that ww 2 history is still alive least a generation forgets the exploits of the LRDG
The Long Range Desert Group has a strong claim to the first Special Forces unit in the British Army. .Manned initially by New Zealanders, in 1940 the unit became the LRDG with members drawn from British Guards and Yeomanry regiments and Rhodesians.So successful were the LRDG patrols, that when the Special Air Service were formed, they often relied on their navigational and tactical skills to achieve their missions.After victory in North Africa the LRDG relocated to Lebanon before being sent on the ill-fated mission to the Dodecanese Islands in the Aegean.Serving independently, when the Germans overwhelmed and captured the British garrisons, many LRDG personnel escaped using their well-honed skills
An interesting topic to do a series on, the beginning of the SAS.
The LRDG originated at a truck factory in Oshawa and a Chevy dealer in Cairo.
My suspicions were correct.
Great info , thanks
Well done. History to remember
Keep up the great work!
Popsky. Between the WW1 Light Cars and the WW2 LRDG was Popski's Private Army, "PPA" to those in the know. PPA did fine work on desert navigation, along with good stuff about the capabilities of vehicles of the time. LRDG would have had an even harder time without Popski, who with PPA is worth a show all his own.
Popskis Private Army wasn't formed until October 1942. The LRDG had been in operation for 2 years then....he learnt most of what he knew from the LRDG. He did do a few months in 1942 behind enemy lines working with local Arab's but again this was long after the LRDG had been formed and effective. Most of the PPA's work was actually in Italy, after the LRDG's main role had finished.
This guys magic to listen to
Excellent and educational…l just thought it was Stirling idea ….unsure if Orde Wingate had a input too ….brilliant
Great video, do you know of maps available on the internet that were used by the LRDG for navigation by the long range desert group, appart from the Bagnold sun compass ?
Great video! Excellent!
People forget that there were many Rhodesians and New Zealanders, not just English in the LRDG. My dad was badly wounded in Cyrenaica losing an eye, which is featured in the maps in this video. I am glad this area is mentioned, as my dad was never in WW2, but the battles before WW2 were dangerous too, including the Battle of Cyrenaica.
Major Ralph Bagnold wanted rugged men hence Kiwi cattle farmers and volunteers from the Rhodesian army.
Loved it! Just nitpicking here at 6:00, but I'm pretty sure the Bofors are 37mm, not 3.7mm.
Bofors were most commonly 40mm,the decendants are still in use today.Dragging that through the desert sand would not be a pleasant experience.
@@MrOlgrumpy the anti tank gun was 37mm it was standardised by the british until the 2 pounder could be procured in sufficient numbers
Yeah true , but in a tight spot a 3.7mm may come in handy , lol
Bofors are 40mm
The original mad lads.
My paternal grandfather , Gustav "Gus" Suhr was a Bren Guner of 22 Batalion B'Co NZEF, he did a few "stints" with the LRDG....As did my maternal grandfather Eric Feek , 21st Battalion HQ Reccon Co, he was a Bren Carrier driver & mechanic, he could drive & fix anything.
Eric told me about going out and placing explosives in Jerry fuel dumps , and mines under vehicles. He said the could hear them "go up" in the morning when Jerry woke up.
Eric was captured at Sedi Aziz with 5th Brgde HQ Co.27/11/41.
Hi Tim. As usual I love your stuff. Sorry to be a weapon spotter but I believe the LRDG were equipped with a 3.7 centimetre Bofors anti tank gun not a 3.7 mm Bofors anti aircraft gun.
Tik.not Tim. Predictive text is for bankers.
My dad was in a RAMC field ambulance part of the LRGD tested for the SAS failed that but spent most of his time in ambulance first aid stations and hospitals behind enemy lines
🎖️🎖️🎖️
Do you remember where you read the bit about the vehicles initially having the desert rat logo on first vehicles to deceive spies ? Was it Kennedy Shaw account?
Good vid.
3.7mm Bofors? Gavin Mortimer said the same thing in 'The Men Who Made The SAS' but I think it should be 37mm.
The Bofors guns were 40mm. My father used one. to shoot down 2 german planes at Normandy and one in the Bulge.
@@jasholden9741 Bofors were the guys who made them, and they made a large variety of guns.
The one you're talking about is the designed Anti Air (although it's more like anti everything) 40mm Automatic Bofors.
The 37 one is the breech loaded 3.7cm anti tank gun.
Edit: The video was probably talking about the QF 3.7 Inch heavy anti aircraft gun.
@@jasholden9741 One of them was 40mm yes. But Bofors made a lot more then one type of gun.
At what point did O'Connor replace Hobart (later of Hobart's funnies)?
And, do you have any more details on the small route between Cairo and Siwa through the Qattarra Depression?
It is the same Hobart who later created the "funny" tanks. Unfortunately I don't have an exact date for Hobart's replacement by O'Connor.
Surprisingly, I've just double checked in Playfair's British Official History of the Mediterranean and Middle East and there's zero mention of Hobart at all. The ship HMAS Hobart is mentioned, even though it only had a very small part to play in Somaliland (so small I didn't even mention it in my video on the Italian invasion of Somaliland) so I can only assume he must have been replaced before the war broke out with Italy at the very latest. The books on the LRDG don't mention him in great detail.
And I don't have any detail about the route between Cairo and Siwa, sorry. Most of the maps in the books I've used have been awful. I've actually been relying on Google Maps a lot to try and find the locations of specific villages, because the books talk about places their own maps don't even show. I based the map in this video from Playfair's book (Map 19)
I feel like I'm getting nearer a proper answer for you. I've just bought a new book called "The Sting of the Scorpion" by Mike Morgan, and in it it states that the Qattara Depression was discovered in the First World War by Captain Claud H. Williams, who commanded the 5th Light Car Patrol. He wanted to see if Siwa could be attacked from the east, but failed to get through the salt marsh and realised the Depression was impenetrable to wheeled vehicles. It's also mentioned that "it was a full ten years before they made a proper survey and could verify William's key discovery, about which he wrote a War Office handbook - Report on a Military Geography of the North Western Desert of Egypt." But then doesn't say what he'd discovered - other than the depression itself. So it's unclear if Williams found the route through the Depression.
Later in the book, it says that at the end of the Long Range Patrol's first trip into the desert they went across the Qattara track. In Clayton's own words - "We left Siwa on the 18th to Cairo for lunch on the 19th, by the fast route across the Qattara Depression which Ali Fudail and I knew so well from our detailed survey work there twelve years before."
Going off Clayton's words, the route through Siwa was discovered by himself and Ali Fudail (whoever he is) in 1928.
In the book "The Men Who Made the SAS: The History of the Long Range Desert Group", it quotes Kennedy Shaw - 'In the basin the heat is stifling... No hill gives shade, no tree breaks the monotony of the salt marshes. Drive your truck two yards from the beaten track and it will be sunk to its axles in the quicksands.'
north africa was the beginning of some of the most elite military units of WW-2' , mobs for jobs they called bash and dash gangs , the Small Scale Raiding Force , the long range desert group , popski's private army , the Sterling brothers and the SAS , lord earl jellico and the SBS , lord lovat and the lovat scouts , the commandos , the special service unit , force -601' , the boys were waging all out war
Wow, wow wow, I still have a lot to learn... That was a mouth full, thx... I must take a screenshot, and start searching and reading.
Wondered if anyone knows if the Cheshire Regt had any hookup with the early LRDG
Nowadays just use a open roofed Ferrari to charge in at 200 MPH. Or a F1 car. However I'm very intruiged at this division. The unsung heroes of the early North African Campaign. You should reveal more heroes that are not known in the war. Great Job!!!
I really should :)
I disagree with your choice of a Ferrari or an F1 car for one simple reason. They have no real carrying capacity. The reason why Bagnold choose the Chevrolet Trucks was because they could carry the supplies needed for the kind of trips that he contemplated their making, and that they actually did. I drive a Subaru and get about 300 plus miles on roads to a tank of gas. For me to stretch that out to 1,500 miles (and cross-country, desert miles at that) means that I'd have to carry sufficient fuel to be able to refuel AT LEAST 5 times. And that does not include carry food, weapons, ammunition and other supplies.
Plus have you ever tried driving an F1 car on sand?
... Their job was to see and not BE seen. When they saw an inviting target, they let rip but most of the time they were holed up doing recon on the enemy and setting them up for bombing raids or a visit by the SAS, at a much later date. The intelligence they gathered did much for the war effort in hampering the supply routes for the Italians and Germans. Brave men and very sneaky !
@@davidbriggs264 ..They also set up supply dumps in the desert for the SAS.
my dad was in LRDG, heard many stories, when was disbanded, then served as a Palestine Policeman until pull out..the old man was a spot bollock mechanic...sorry folks no SAS story here...
3.7mm isn’t a very likely size for an anti aircraft gun?
37mm... Bofors gun.
Video "The Swiss Beast - Home of the Devil" for the real Worldwar II story.
The Australians were never in the running for inclusion in the formation of the Long Range Patrol
The Italians Obviously where not ready for battle but the British had no way to know that for sure so having a group like the LRDG was a logical to harass the enemy and gather intelligence.
What could have been mentoned is that without the LRDG, the famous SAS would have not existed. When Stirling took his men on their first mission, it was a parachute jump in a sandstorm. Half of his men and most of his equipement were never found.They never were in fact. Still M.I.A., presumed dead. The rest, including Sterling, had to be rescued by the LRDG. After that debacle, Sterling asked for the LRDG to ferry them about, until the SAS got their own transport. Their now famous Jeeps. Sterling even nicked the LRDG's best navigator. The original LRDG were all Kiwis because Command wanted tough, self sufficient men and the NZ hill country farmers fit the bill perfectly. Half the NZ Division volunteered for the job. The rest is history, sadly mostly forgotten.
hi is there anyway i can check on names of the men that were in the lrdg icannot find any info into my dads n africa ca pain he was in the Raf but that is were everything ends
In book "The Sting of the Scorpion" it mentions that the "LRDG Association Nominal Roll" is the most complete record of members of the LRDG. However, not every veteran who served with the LRDG joined the Association, so while it is the most complete record, it isn't a full list of all the members that ever joined the LRDG.
What was his name? Is it "McQuiggan"?
TIK may thanks for info yes it was Robert Pattinson mcquiggan
Hi this is great, I wanted to know if there was a Charles William Boynton on the list from NZ thank you
Historically i can understand why Australia would not want their men under command of Britain.
Actually , the Australians were not invited to apply ........
LastnameFirst you need watch this doco , Australians where the first choice , but after the WW1 debacle we refused to have our men commanded by Brits
@@mathewkelly9968 no they weren't new Zealand troops were their first troops because they wanted farmers that can fix things and fight
any idea why "W" "T" "R" patrols ? These WTF would suit the reputation of the irregular force !?
... There seems to be no real reason to it. Later additional patrols were given the G, S and Y designation. The Kiwis all named their trucks with place names from NZ. They pretty much did what thay wanted to do and that was to make life difficult for their enemies. They would spend weeks out in the desert reporting every movement on the coast road and getting it bombed, as well as swanning about in the Sand sea, causing havoc. Check it out. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group
Great video. My grandfather was an officer in the British Indian Army. He killed lots of Germans in North Africa and was in N. Africa before the arrival of Monty. He lied about his age in order to get into the BI Army, he was considered to be too old by regular standards. He used to swim a mile upstream and then a mile downstream in the local Indian River. He literally bet a group of people that he could win a marathon in a bar - and proceeded to collect from every last one of the dolts that bet against him. He was a man's man, and a wonderful man whom I deeply miss dearly every day.
He hunted man eating tigers and leopards along with Jim Corbett. (Look it up.) He was also a hemophiliac who if he had been wounded seriously during battle he would have bled to death.
And wiping out Germans was his job. And he did it well. I am named after him, and have some of the same characteristics. And sometimes TIK, your comments annoy me about economics while you appear to be living in the UK. You are not an economist, you are an historian. And a good one at that.But I read the works of PhD economists and have seen the reports by the London School of Economics (LSE) and the International Monetary Find (IMF) in two separate studies that showed neoliberal economics is a failed theory. All it does is enrich the already rich. In the US 60% of wealth is inherited, meaning the recipients DID NOT work for it. How does that fit within you Libertarian outlook, and I know you are Libertarian as you stated that taxes are a form of theft. They're not. They are the price we pay to live in a civilized society. If you want to dodge all taxes might I suggest you relocate to Botswana, or some African war torn nation, where your historical brilliance would be counted for naught. But you wouldn't have to pay any taxes.
I suggest you shut it on the economics tripe. You Germans are far too ideological, and too fixed in your thinking. That is part of the reason for your people losing that Battle Of Britain, and if you want to argue with me about that I'll suggest you read, "The Battle of Britain: The Narrow Margin." Or maybe you can peruse "Tank Rider" about how those benighted communists under Stalin, a very vile dictator, but smart enough to finally let his generals direct the war, beat the Wehrmacht all to Hades, and back again. After the Battle of Kursk, your lot were basically finished. And my grandfather was at the Battle of El Alamein. Just how did that turn out for Rommel?
Let's face a fact - the Fascist nations lost the war, and the liberal democracies won the war. The GI Bill was one of the greatest success stories of the US. And it was socialist in nature. I'm either a democratic socialist, or a socialist democrat. One of the rules that is held by people such as myself is pretty simple. No one party rule. Ever. The NHS, when not run by the Tories, does a pretty damned good job. Compare and contrast with the nightmare that is 'frei markt' US medicine, which is based upon grubbing for money rather than doing that which is right. I may stop watching your channel just because of you ideological economics. You're not an economist, plsy to your strength and be a decent historian.
I'll forever remember where Benghazi is now.
Err, the Vikings had sun compasses 1200 years or so before Bagnall.
I had simular job in the IDF.
Prefer the old format where you are narrating in person. Nice story but would be better in your old style.
My dad was a L.R.D.G soldier.
That was thrilling. I really like these small unit operations like the SAS and the Brandenburgers.
One thing I've always wondered: Why was the Italian morale in ww2 so terrible? I know they had a lot of leadership issues, but it seems that the average Italian soldier didn't have much motivation to fight compared to the other nations.
The Italians weren't very warlike, so their best and brightest weren't eager to join the army, even as officers. Italy lacked a Middle Class, which is where Germany/France/Britain's best officers usually came from. The middle class was the best place to produce large numbers of self-educating officers who would be interested in studying war, learning from it, and innovating. As a result, Italian officers were known for intellectual sloth, living high, and neglecting the welfare of their men.
Not a good combination.
Well said, without being rude...
You've explained what I thought, but couldn't put to paper..
I love the Italians, their food, their country, their cars, and their woman.
But as soldiers, no.
And as rugby players 🤔...... they are getting there.... 😬😬.
🦂 🦇 🇿🇦 🦇 🦂
I like your scottish accent. Would you write something on the Fall of Hong Kong Xmas 1941. There is a book "The Eastern Fortress" on Amazon that you may be interested in. It was a heroic resistance at the odd of 1:3 against the Japanese Imperial Army .In eighteen days over 1800 Commonwealth troops died and many more died in POW camps later. The Royal Scots battalions in particular made huge sacrifice. Thx
"I like your scottish accent"? He hasn't a Scottish accent. Somewhere in the middle-north of Engand
I think u made a mistake - 3.7 mm couldn't be carried on a truck! It was big and heavy
But there's a photo of 3mm AA-Gun on stripped truck... maybe its a truck of LRDG?
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:3inch20cwtAAgunPeerlessLorryWWI.jpg
3 inch* which means 76 mm
They were 37mm Bofors guns. Mounted pointing backwards. Nasty lil beggers...
The Italian should use roman army’s tactics
It was just the glorious bravery of good old Britannia and its Empire
Fuck your empire NZ will always be the mighty Aotearoa
+TIK
hey TIK, my dear Historyman, do you know, what Rommel's best answer was to LRDG?
(hint: his name starts with A and his role and life was kinda screwed up in a nice romantic movie, incl. "la Binoche" ... : )
I have two sources about his (tiny) unit's role, one of them is in Hungarian - and it was first published in 1943(!) by A himself, it is a kind of "short novel book" - with everything "militarily interesting" self-censured.
The other one is, however, a quite recent, thorough study, about one specific mission - and in English! (p.ex. whatever relevant radioing the British intercepted - with all ref codes, etc.)
Do you feel this interesting? : )
Should I try to provide you with more info on this? : )
yours,
limbekcs
gm ail
(erhh...
Jim?
ale!!!
: )
oops, looks like I kind of used this "A code" historically, as much as a fairly popular "chase book" author (count Széchenyi Zsigmond) was only allowed to (re-)publish his book (in the 1960's Hungary) about their chase tour (in the Lybian desert in 1935), if he keeps A's name as A.
And he did.
Same way as he kept his British (=Imperialist!!) wife's name W in his "Indian chase book" (oops, international title: "Nahar!") - again, Imperialist W "got" long divorced when Nahar! was re-published (via post-war "cleaning off" aristocrats - yet Sz Zs stayed - but this is already a quite different story of patriotism... : )
(sorry, just stories from the backyard of cultural repression - or whatever a reader realized of it...)
sorry, should have written first that mentioning of oversized tyres made me write all this : )
I mean, really, this is what A. as well as Sz. do mention as a (minimal) requirement to get through the desert
further: at least two other cars, water, fuel, SKILL (as to how to get the half sand-sunk car out with the others - and of course how to read the trails of the desert), and luck (c.f. "Inshallah")
nice old histories... : )
3.7 mm. Bofors Anti Aircraft gun? Really?
I think he meant 76 mm gun (3 inches)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:3inch20cwtAAgunPeerlessLorryWWI.jpg
A minor detail. Dont be ungrateful.
Only just seen this comment. It was a while ago, but I think I meant this gun, which is 94mm (3.7 inch - not millimetres) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_3.7-inch_AA_gun?wprov=sfla1
37mm.... simple mistake.
Your comments at the end besmirch NZ diggers in a way that I'm uncomfortable with. I've grown up hearing only about the Brits or Australian army battles. Your tale of history seems to be more of the same.
I'd been told about my grandad by many but could never find much substance other than his service record, (corrected 15 years after the fact and awarded his medals. Arrived in Egypt 1939 in the first Echelon, injured in Tunisia, returned 1945.
I'd been told there was a book he was in all my life. 'The Raiders' Desert Strike Force. Read the book. Book isn't about Pop, it's about David Stirling? Pop is mentioned page 67. Read page 68, wtf? David Stirling can get F%$#&D. Admits himself 3 officers, made 2 privates do all the work and when they break down and are stuck for 6 days in the bloody Sahara Desert with half a pint of water between them, the book says 'they drew straws', (my grandad told a different story)the send them off on foot with a pistol.
Upon gleaning that information, I contacted the NZDF where I'd got his woeful service record and was told that the real records were kept in London? Wtf?
The War Diaries were declassified in 2010. I have to travel there for access. Access that has been withheld from Diggers themselves and families all this time. It really is a deep betrayal that will be brought to light.
This is your notice that if I can confirm it as it appears, I'm not going to feel the same about how you have spoken about their contribution.
You're a bloody disgrace.
Smith Eric Davis Matthew Walker Kevin
TIK YT
Moore Sarah Davis Jeffrey Brown Laura
What does it matter what we think , or for that matter what I know ? People are belligerent , obstinate bigots . They know everything .
What!! Did you think the Italians had no recon units, both on the ground and in the air? We all know how tyre tracks can show up like an X ray in the desert sands. Then, were the Italians so naive as not to foresee such an operation in their flank, against vital routes and communication.
The LRDG was not successful overall. There was one operation where the Italians trapped them in a mountain pass and annialated the force. And in another seaborne attack some 300 allied men were lost. Your story is from Hollywood.
Go read the Divisional records, you lying know it all.
How can he be taken too seriously when he claims they were driving Model T fords
One mistake does not history change......
Major Ralph Bagnold drove model As not Ts around the Libyan desert in the 20s.