Everything you discussed is precisely what I would be interested as far as the amplifiers go. Your point about what happening with the noise at those very low outputs is actually important to me since I don't get my amplifiers going past one watt in my current listening area. 0.03 watts is actually what I see my Pioneer SA- 520 registering late at night. It's hooked to fairly sensitive ( easily 91 Dbs/watt) home built small monitors. Fortunately no problem with the noise from that set-up. Although I really don't see replacing the Yamaha RX-V850 that I am using as a preamp and to drive my modified Bose 301seris II /Advent fried eggs .either. I'm mostly here for the entertainment. And yes I said Bose and yes I am an audiophile. Having high end equipment does not make one an audiophile. What makes us audiophiles is the enthusiastic approach to high fidelity sound reproduction.
I think that is exactly what I’ve been looking for a Place with just the information I’m interested in. I do like to technical stuff but it gets a little overwhelming at times. So please. It will be fun and informative.
Can’t say I care about electronics measurements. They are all so good these days. I use all McIntosh these days just because I like the looks and they sound fine, more than fine really. I will just keep them longterm at this point. But speakers make a big difference.
Actually that's easy to figure out ... Look at the "Damping Factor". This tells you the ratio between the amplifier's output and an 8 ohm load. Thus... R_OUT = 8 / DF. So for a damping factor of 50... R_OUT = 8 /50 == 0.16 ohms.
Very intelligent, sensible discussion of room treatment. Quite different from what I have seen elsewhere. Kudos. PS - that's not snow! Ha! Regards from Buffalo - Go Bills! :)
Let's face it, most AVRs and similar are competent...so the way you are talking about testing electronics by focusing on the usability, ergonomics, and some self-noise, sounds great.
Couldn't find your room treatment poll. I have no room treatment .... my walls are cinder block in two corners covered with some 7 ply red oak plywood boards about 11"wide so is the rest of the walls covered with those ply wood boards. That worked out with my modified Bose 301 series II with a pair of Advent fried egg tweeters facing forward .
Strokers are cool looking and the old one sounded pretty good when I heard it. Haven't heard the new version. The FS is pretty high so you know it's still all about those SPL numbers.
I am most interested in how quiet an amplifier sounds at less than 1 watt because I develop quad-amplified systems that use 111dB @ 1W/1M midrange and 105dB @1W/1M tweeters. It's amazing how noisy a typical amplifier sounds through these speakers.
Disagree, got 106db speakers with dual 10" PA midranges that cut at 90hz and they are quiet unhearable on denon 6300 avr. I would have to put gain to unrealistic settings to hear noise.
@@pulDagit’s an average amp at best so I think it’s a good reference to base his comment on. Anything with a lower noise floor which would be most amps over 5K (excluding valves) would be better.
Erin: If you are considering getting into amplifier and source device measurements, I would say "don't bother". The goal of "audible perfection" was reached about 30 years ago. These days all you will be measuring is tiny differences between frequency response and distortion figures that no human being could hear in the first place. About the only remaining measurement of much worth is output power and that is really only necessary to find out if the manufacturer is lying to us (most do). My friend, keep on doing what you're doing. Speakers are the sole remaining large difference in home audio, these days.
I second this. Electronics are neat, but they are so much less important than speakers. Obviously, you should do what interests you, but I feel like lots of people can cover the user experience of electronics, and enough can measure them. No one else consistently provides the level of value that you do in your speaker reviews.
Absolutely. I concur , any review would be based on subjective sound quality, and there are already too many guys banging on about tiny differences and making them out to be huge to appease the company’s who’s gear they’re reviewing..
I have to say I keep wondering how much amplifiers do. Like I have an Audiolab 6000a play right now. Hooked up to Dynaudio Contour 1 MK2. They're rated for 100 watt. My Audiolab goes plenty loud. Do I really get different sound with a different amplifier? Like meaningful more bass or more treble / different tonality? All these audiophile reviewers just give me big question marks in my head. I can't digest the DAC chasing either.
"The goal of "audible perfection" was reached about 30 years ago. " And yet we see no end of new amps that have audible distortion. I think we need to keep trucking on. The more data the better!
@@Clobercow1 No we don't. At what level does distortion become audible? Here's a simple example for you ... the average "pop music" being released today probably has more than 10 or 15% distortion embedded into the music, sometimes deliberately. Another example... Even the best speakers typically run 3 to 5% distortion through most of the upper bass and midrange regions. Still another example... Most news broadcasts on TV have about 5% or more embedded distortion, due to speech compression. And you're going to tell me you can hear 0.01% distortion in an amplifier? Think again.
I'm sure you could get something cheaper than the audio precision. However the noise floor maybe not quite as low but still good enough for Hi-Fi gear.
Dead silent trumps max loudness every day in this household. Given the number of fans that seem to get strapped to everything these days, it sometimes feels like a losing battle, but, I'd listen in to that discussion for sure.
Ok Mr. BMX/Audiophile/Synonym dude. The next time you hear port chuffing on a speaker review I want to hear you call it "goat farting". :-) Keep em coming Erin!
Great video, Erin! Looking forward to when SVS sends you a set of the new Ultra Towers to review. Also, speaking of old speakers, have you ever listened to a pair of AR-3a's from Acoustic Research? I have a pair that were my dad's that still sound phenomenal.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Unfortunately, they aren't easy to come by nowadays, especially ones that have been restored. With that said, they sound very neutral with deep bass extension. Known to be one of the more influential speakers of their time.
I would like to see measurements of the Bose 700 Surround Speaker. It is a very unique omni directional design and I have yet to find a single measurement of this speaker published anywhere.
You might want to consider a couple of things I've done in rentals ... The first is "PE Foam Wallpaper" and the second is "Canvas Art" ... a couple of searches will turn up lots of different colours and designs you can use. The 3D wallpaper acts as a poor absorber but a pretty decent diffuser for behind the speakers and the canvas art works like a limp membrane absorber for other parts of the room. It's not studio quality by any stretch but it is a fair bit better than nothing.
Bang & Olufsen: A variety of active speakers, and some were meant for center channels, and sold along with the first flat panel TV's from about the year 2005, like BeoVision 7. The TV's have a poor black level, and falls out of use, and most owners are not creative with the "left-over" speakers, and can be had for cheap. E.g. "Beolab 7.4" (upright, with wide dispersion 2 way, no deep bass) or the stereo bars BeoLab 7.1 and BeoLab 7.2 (3 way full range). The 7.4 has a fixed low cut filter, to work together with a subwoofer. Video of the inner parts: ruclips.net/video/tbNc027MoeA/видео.html Different look (matte aluminium grilles), different signal connectors.
Thanks for the long video on a cold and snowy day. Suggest you stay with reviewing speakers and subs with both your measurements and listening impressions. If you could share measurements on other equipment that would be great but if the measuring equipment is too expensive I think it’s OK if you pass or wait for now. You do what you do very well and it’s greatly appreciated. There are too many RUclips reviewers giving their subjective opinions with no real measurements. You don’t need to go that route. Keep doing what you’re doing my man! Looking forward to your reviews of the new SVS speakers. I love SVS. Great equipment and customer service so hope they have another winning speaker lineup. Peace, love and music!
What about measuring different LP pickups with the same pair of quality speakers? Might not be possible without pressing a test LP record... but it would be awesome if there's a way to, in some detail, show the difference. Dont know if its been done by a thousand others. Im just in to researching a new pickup for an old Dual 1225 record player. :)
Most cartridge manufacturers already publish frequency response information for their various products. It's not an easy measure because the cartridge has to be connected to an RIAA de-emphasis network and then tested for a flat frequency response with lab-grade test disks.
Any interest on doing a review of Buchardt audio SUB10? A 10” woofer but with a slim enclosure that the company says can output 95 dB at 20 hz. Also, it you do reviews of amps it would be good if you do a disassembly of the product to see the quality of the components and do a comparison of components between amps that perfom similar but had a really diferent price tag
I've got two entry-level SVS subwoofers (SB 1000 Pro) because of compact size, app-configurabilty, decent pricing (got a returned unit) and white finish. Performance is plenty for me (and my neighbours). However, I would not be interested in their speakers, they just look too bland for me. Also active speakers with room correction and streaming connectivity are the way to go for me.
I like Klipsch Speakers. Nice appearance, & you can remove the front cover to see the "goldish" colored speakers, if you wish! Controls: Phase & volume. The ports are in front; good, for placement, & as I was in the NAVY 6 years, know that there's a Sailor in every Port, & Port in every Sailor!
@@richardhigginson8811 Yes, at least Klipsch has some distinct design features. Had RF7 and RB81, especially the RB81 were very good in regards of price/performance.
They do look a little bland imo. But if they measured well enough for their price I might consider them. Perhaps I just make a cloth grill sculpture to hide them lol
In terms of "what would be interesting", let me share you my personal case: - I bought second hand speakers - I hooked them up to a FOSI Audio amp (Class D "300 watt", ASR noted it around 70-75 watt) - One of the speakers started to sound really weird like it was cracking popping - The seller of the speakers blamed the amp, noting it's not heavy enough for the speakers, it's probably clipping and damaging the speakers Is that something you can test? Like how much can a cheap class D amp drive? Can it damage a speaker because it's getting overloaded? Is this something to be worried for if you have "heavy duty" speakers and a relatively cheap amplifier? I'm just wondering if it's interesting for something like an educational series, not per se something to test on an ongoing basis, unless there's something valuable to actually test.
I mean, did you literally max the dial on your amp? If yes, then maybe, if not, then no. Hard to have even the faintest clue without that info and without the product names
Hey @@lukemcdo thanks for taking the effort to respond. I was trying to hint at a more general gest for Erin, e.g. a lot of people are trying these small cheap amplifiers from FOSI and other brands. Some people say they can break your speakers, is that possible? Is that an interesting video for a broad audience? Since you took the effort, the specifics: - Fosi Audio TB10D 600Watt TPA3255 (realistic more like 70 watt) - Dynaudio Contour 1 MK2 It wasn't cranked full open, more like 60%, with bass slightly over half (unclear what the mid-point is actually)
@@caidNL Fascinating! That 70W suggestion is misleading because the premise is that with an amp like this, most speakers you'd see are either nearfield desktop monitors that you would never pump 70W into anyway or your cheaper 8ohm insensitive bookshelf speakers. At 4ohms (which your speakers are) ASR noted an 88W maximum at their target distortion level, as one example. That isn't enough to damage your speakers outright, but it's dimly possible to have damaged a tweeter with a surprising peak. And it could be worse than that -- that's not the maximum power, that's the maximum power at the selected distortion target. So when forum posters say it's "realistic more like 70w" or when I say "ASR claims it maxes at 88w in your scenario, actually," that isn't the maximum wattage from the unit, it's the maximum "tolerable" wattage from the unit in terms of total harmonic distortion. Both the 70W into 8ohm and 88w into 4ohm numbers say nothing about what the maximum wattage output is on the dial, and given that they claim 300W maximum, chances are that 60% on the dial is past at least the 70W number and maybe the 88W number, but with 2% or more THD (given that 1% THD was at about 100W and THD should rise pretty quickly outside of the sweet spot). You could've hit some pretty high THD numbers for all I know, as ASR did not bother testing past that 100wpc 1% THD number. So yes, you probably were getting close to or hearing some clipping. That said, clipping from the amp doesn't automatically mean the speaker broke or should break, and I'd have to defer to someone who knows more about those Contour 1s to know if damage should've even been possible. For example, the Klipsch R-51Ms I bought before I knew better were rated for 85W continuous but like 340W peak (which yikes, don't ever put 340W peak in there). Your Dynaudios are rated at 100W continuous so I'd expect the allowed peak is at least twice that. All being said, I think those Dynaudios had a problem before you got them but it's technically possible you clipped and damaged a tweeter. I don't think there's any way you damaged a woofer though given the characteristics of the amp. If you can find someone with measurement equipment able to denote what power output in watts per channel corresponded to what dial positions on the Fosi, that would be where I'd go next. It's also worth trying to find the rated peak RMS of the Dynaudios, which didn't come up in a quick Google search and tbh I am not trying harder than I already have on this sorry. And if it turns out that 100W IEC (continuous rating) is a lie and that's actually the peak, then I am very sorry for your loss of speaker because you 100% blew the speaker. Edit: it looks like the MK 3 got a continuous rating of 150W, which is quite low. I'm really sorry but given the age of these things, there's almost no way you didn't damage them unless they were rebuilt.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest your seller blaming the amp is a quick way to dodge responsibility for selling a dud speaker. The test is simple... swap the speaker leads, left for right ... does the problem move or does it stay in the same speaker? If it's still in the same speaker it's the speaker, not the amp. You should know the TPA3255 chip these class D amps are favouring right now is a world class pro-audio device that really does deliver on it's claims. It is used in public address, sound reinforcement, powered monitors, studio monitors, high end home theatre and not a few stereo products. Do a search for "TPA3155 Data Sheet" and you can read about it's true capabilities. Can an amplifier be defective? Of course it can. But that's why we do simple tests like swapping channels, trying a different pair of speakers, trying a different amp, listening at very low levels and so on to track down the problems.
I think the electronics idea is going to be a waste of time as I put in a thread below. I think that the electronics with meaningful problems are mostly low-end products -- you'd have to strike a really narrow niche to get it right and it'd be expensive compared to the likely returns. If you picked a niche like desktop amps and compared noise floors on those, that might have the best audience reach because oftentimes even audiophiles don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a desktop setup on top of their existing listening room/etc. AVRs are probably the most expensive to test and frankly not a great choice because they're rarely listened to nearfield. If you really feel like going into electronics, there's probably a decent chance you could test phono stages and get some clicks?
You can't focus on the noise level of amps at such low levels because then none of the class D amps that are coming out on the market would be classed as state of the art anymore. They all suffer the SHHH noise that Erin speaks of.
Not all. I have about a dozen class D amps on hand for friends and customers, they all check out dead silent while idling. The previous generation chips had some trivial noise that was inaudible a foot away. But overall this new batch is as close dead silent as makes no difference. The hissing problem so many people cite was mainly in last generation pro-audio gear where a silent noise floor simply isn't needed. They can sacrifice the SNR to drive for more power... which is what public address and sound reinforcement is all about.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 The Hypex ncore are supposed to be state of the art class D. They are certainly not dead silence. You can easily hear the shhhh noise from the tweeter. It should be silent even from 1 inch away from the tweeter. Show me a class D amp that can do that.
@@ProfessorJohnSmith Okay ... that's actually easy ... almost any amplifier based on the TPA3255 chip. That chip is widely used in pro-audio, home theatre, mid-fi stereo and even some high end studio gear. ... and yes it's in the little mini-amps from China. Those little amps from Fosi, Aiyima, etc. will surprise you, my friend. A $90 amplifier that will wipe the floor with much of the $5,000+ equipment out there...
I would like it if you reviewed budget to mid range amps and pro amps like the crown stuff. I bet you could get adequate testing equipment for less than whatever marantz was using. I know you've poo-pood audible amp differences, but hopefully with amp testing you will endeavor to give at least a brief subjective impression.
Measurements of electronics is rather boring, good choice on focusing on speakers. Poor performing electronics with great speakers will always trump SOTA electronics with middling speakers. As long as a product hits its rated power and I can’t hear noise from my listening position, I have always been satisfied. Although I appreciate measuring electronics to push designers to increase performance, chasing some measurements at a point becomes meaningless.
Might not one say, listen to as many systems as you can, select the one that pleases, YOU! A very expensive, linear system, may not be as good for, YOU, as another one!
I agree a good pair of speakers is primary if the amplifier isn't up to the task you'll know it's time to save some dollars and upgrade . As far as the inputs go you really don't need to spend all that much for more than adequate vinyl playback. I think it's pretty much the same for digital input sources to.
@@rushgush ? what do you mean? when im listen to a JBL Bluetooth boombox i am far from crying😁 People buy the most expensive gear. they put 30000 Dollar speaker and 20000 Dollar amps in a poor room and i have a better experiance with gear that cost a fraction with proper acoustic treatment.
so yeah... it's not all about the money. It is how you use your money/budget . that's why i am a bit shocked that 60 or so percent dont have treatment at all.
don't do electronics review if they require extra test equipment. honestly im more interested in REQ software reviews than the usual electronics measurements.
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Hey man I found you this week and absolutely love your content. You got a new sub from my end and gonna reccomend you to people. Keep it up Erin!
Everything you discussed is precisely what I would be interested as far as the amplifiers go. Your point about what happening with the noise at those very low outputs is actually important to me since I don't get my amplifiers going past one watt in my current listening area. 0.03 watts is actually what I see my Pioneer SA- 520 registering late at night. It's hooked to fairly sensitive ( easily 91 Dbs/watt) home built small monitors. Fortunately no problem with the noise from that set-up. Although I really don't see replacing the Yamaha RX-V850 that I am using as a preamp and to drive my modified Bose 301seris II /Advent fried eggs .either. I'm mostly here for the entertainment. And yes I said Bose and yes I am an audiophile. Having high end equipment does not make one an audiophile. What makes us audiophiles is the enthusiastic approach to high fidelity sound reproduction.
I think that is exactly what I’ve been looking for a Place with just the information I’m interested in. I do like to technical stuff but it gets a little overwhelming at times. So please. It will be fun and informative.
Can’t say I care about electronics measurements. They are all so good these days. I use all McIntosh these days just because I like the looks and they sound fine, more than fine really. I will just keep them longterm at this point.
But speakers make a big difference.
You'll love the Class D amps...dead silent and nice to have amps that don't weigh 60 lbs and heat up the room.
Another thing that is seldom discussed by amp reviewers is output resistance.
Actually that's easy to figure out ... Look at the "Damping Factor". This tells you the ratio between the amplifier's output and an 8 ohm load.
Thus... R_OUT = 8 / DF.
So for a damping factor of 50... R_OUT = 8 /50 == 0.16 ohms.
Very intelligent, sensible discussion of room treatment. Quite different from what I have seen elsewhere. Kudos. PS - that's not snow! Ha! Regards from Buffalo - Go Bills! :)
Oh, it's definitely not real snow... but even a little bit shuts my area down! LOL
Let's face it, most AVRs and similar are competent...so the way you are talking about testing electronics by focusing on the usability, ergonomics, and some self-noise, sounds great.
Couldn't find your room treatment poll. I have no room treatment .... my walls are cinder block in two corners covered with some 7 ply red oak plywood boards about 11"wide so is the rest of the walls covered with those ply wood boards. That worked out with my modified Bose 301 series II with a pair of Advent fried egg tweeters facing forward .
Strokers are cool looking and the old one sounded pretty good when I heard it. Haven't heard the new version. The FS is pretty high so you know it's still all about those SPL numbers.
I am most interested in how quiet an amplifier sounds at less than 1 watt because I develop quad-amplified systems that use 111dB @ 1W/1M midrange and 105dB @1W/1M tweeters. It's amazing how noisy a typical amplifier sounds through these speakers.
Disagree, got 106db speakers with dual 10" PA midranges that cut at 90hz and they are quiet unhearable on denon 6300 avr. I would have to put gain to unrealistic settings to hear noise.
@@wadimek116Disagreement based on one amp? Suspicious.
@@pulDagit’s an average amp at best so I think it’s a good reference to base his comment on.
Anything with a lower noise floor which would be most amps over 5K (excluding valves) would be better.
@@Openeyesopenheart42 one would think.. thinking isn't knowing though.
Erin: If you are considering getting into amplifier and source device measurements, I would say "don't bother".
The goal of "audible perfection" was reached about 30 years ago.
These days all you will be measuring is tiny differences between frequency response and distortion figures that no human being could hear in the first place. About the only remaining measurement of much worth is output power and that is really only necessary to find out if the manufacturer is lying to us (most do).
My friend, keep on doing what you're doing. Speakers are the sole remaining large difference in home audio, these days.
I second this. Electronics are neat, but they are so much less important than speakers.
Obviously, you should do what interests you, but I feel like lots of people can cover the user experience of electronics, and enough can measure them.
No one else consistently provides the level of value that you do in your speaker reviews.
Absolutely. I concur , any review would be based on subjective sound quality, and there are already too many guys banging on about tiny differences and making them out to be huge to appease the company’s who’s gear they’re reviewing..
I have to say I keep wondering how much amplifiers do. Like I have an Audiolab 6000a play right now. Hooked up to Dynaudio Contour 1 MK2. They're rated for 100 watt. My Audiolab goes plenty loud. Do I really get different sound with a different amplifier? Like meaningful more bass or more treble / different tonality? All these audiophile reviewers just give me big question marks in my head. I can't digest the DAC chasing either.
"The goal of "audible perfection" was reached about 30 years ago. "
And yet we see no end of new amps that have audible distortion. I think we need to keep trucking on. The more data the better!
@@Clobercow1
No we don't. At what level does distortion become audible?
Here's a simple example for you ... the average "pop music" being released today probably has more than 10 or 15% distortion embedded into the music, sometimes deliberately.
Another example... Even the best speakers typically run 3 to 5% distortion through most of the upper bass and midrange regions.
Still another example... Most news broadcasts on TV have about 5% or more embedded distortion, due to speech compression.
And you're going to tell me you can hear 0.01% distortion in an amplifier?
Think again.
Your choice of amps is really good, BUT very dependent on preamp and equalization. Good amplification can make even the Klipsch rp600m2 sound perfect.
I can't wait for you to get your hands on the new Emotiva speakers...the XT2's in particular because I'm hoping they'll be my endgame speakers.
I'm sure you could get something cheaper than the audio precision. However the noise floor maybe not quite as low but still good enough for Hi-Fi gear.
Dead silent trumps max loudness every day in this household. Given the number of fans that seem to get strapped to everything these days, it sometimes feels like a losing battle, but, I'd listen in to that discussion for sure.
Can you review Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2 EX V2? I remember you liked their LX.
Ok Mr. BMX/Audiophile/Synonym dude. The next time you hear port chuffing on a speaker review I want to hear you call it "goat farting". :-) Keep em coming Erin!
Great video, Erin! Looking forward to when SVS sends you a set of the new Ultra Towers to review. Also, speaking of old speakers, have you ever listened to a pair of AR-3a's from Acoustic Research? I have a pair that were my dad's that still sound phenomenal.
I haven't... yet.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Unfortunately, they aren't easy to come by nowadays, especially ones that have been restored. With that said, they sound very neutral with deep bass extension. Known to be one of the more influential speakers of their time.
I would like to see measurements of the Bose 700 Surround Speaker. It is a very unique omni directional design and I have yet to find a single measurement of this speaker published anywhere.
I rent now in my retirement. Treatment is not an option. Tapestries on the side walls, drapes on the front wall behind the speaker.
You might want to consider a couple of things I've done in rentals ...
The first is "PE Foam Wallpaper" and the second is "Canvas Art" ... a couple of searches will turn up lots of different colours and designs you can use.
The 3D wallpaper acts as a poor absorber but a pretty decent diffuser for behind the speakers and the canvas art works like a limp membrane absorber for other parts of the room. It's not studio quality by any stretch but it is a fair bit better than nothing.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Thank you.
You can freestand treatments. The difficult part might be the ceiling
Bang & Olufsen: A variety of active speakers, and some were meant for center channels, and sold along with the first flat panel TV's from about the year 2005, like BeoVision 7. The TV's have a poor black level, and falls out of use, and most owners are not creative with the "left-over" speakers, and can be had for cheap. E.g. "Beolab 7.4" (upright, with wide dispersion 2 way, no deep bass) or the stereo bars BeoLab 7.1 and BeoLab 7.2 (3 way full range).
The 7.4 has a fixed low cut filter, to work together with a subwoofer. Video of the inner parts: ruclips.net/video/tbNc027MoeA/видео.html
Different look (matte aluminium grilles), different signal connectors.
Thanks for the long video on a cold and snowy day. Suggest you stay with reviewing speakers and subs with both your measurements and listening impressions. If you could share measurements on other equipment that would be great but if the measuring equipment is too expensive I think it’s OK if you pass or wait for now. You do what you do very well and it’s greatly appreciated. There are too many RUclips reviewers giving their subjective opinions with no real measurements. You don’t need to go that route. Keep doing what you’re doing my man! Looking forward to your reviews of the new SVS speakers. I love SVS. Great equipment and customer service so hope they have another winning speaker lineup. Peace, love and music!
What about measuring different LP pickups with the same pair of quality speakers?
Might not be possible without pressing a test LP record... but it would be awesome if there's a way to, in some detail, show the difference.
Dont know if its been done by a thousand others. Im just in to researching a new pickup for an old Dual 1225 record player. :)
wtf
Most cartridge manufacturers already publish frequency response information for their various products. It's not an easy measure because the cartridge has to be connected to an RIAA de-emphasis network and then tested for a flat frequency response with lab-grade test disks.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 thx for the info
Any interest on doing a review of Buchardt audio SUB10? A 10” woofer but with a slim enclosure that the company says can output 95 dB at 20 hz. Also, it you do reviews of amps it would be good if you do a disassembly of the product to see the quality of the components and do a comparison of components between amps that perfom similar but had a really diferent price tag
One more comment...looks like the SVS Ultra designer was a Dunlavy SC fan...
the GOAT farts .... that was CRAZY funny! Maybe I'm a goat and don't know it ... Thanks for the stream, had to catch it after. 🙃
😂
What do you think Svs Ultra Center movie performance??
I've got two entry-level SVS subwoofers (SB 1000 Pro) because of compact size, app-configurabilty, decent pricing (got a returned unit) and white finish. Performance is plenty for me (and my neighbours). However, I would not be interested in their speakers, they just look too bland for me. Also active speakers with room correction and streaming connectivity are the way to go for me.
They look too bland. Ok, thanks.
I like Klipsch Speakers. Nice appearance, & you can remove the front cover to see the "goldish" colored speakers, if you wish! Controls: Phase & volume. The ports are in front; good, for placement, & as I was in the NAVY 6 years, know that there's a Sailor in every Port, & Port in every Sailor!
@@richardhigginson8811 Yes, at least Klipsch has some distinct design features. Had RF7 and RB81, especially the RB81 were very good in regards of price/performance.
They do look a little bland imo. But if they measured well enough for their price I might consider them. Perhaps I just make a cloth grill sculpture to hide them lol
In terms of "what would be interesting", let me share you my personal case:
- I bought second hand speakers
- I hooked them up to a FOSI Audio amp (Class D "300 watt", ASR noted it around 70-75 watt)
- One of the speakers started to sound really weird like it was cracking popping
- The seller of the speakers blamed the amp, noting it's not heavy enough for the speakers, it's probably clipping and damaging the speakers
Is that something you can test? Like how much can a cheap class D amp drive? Can it damage a speaker because it's getting overloaded? Is this something to be worried for if you have "heavy duty" speakers and a relatively cheap amplifier? I'm just wondering if it's interesting for something like an educational series, not per se something to test on an ongoing basis, unless there's something valuable to actually test.
I mean, did you literally max the dial on your amp? If yes, then maybe, if not, then no. Hard to have even the faintest clue without that info and without the product names
Hey @@lukemcdo thanks for taking the effort to respond. I was trying to hint at a more general gest for Erin, e.g. a lot of people are trying these small cheap amplifiers from FOSI and other brands. Some people say they can break your speakers, is that possible? Is that an interesting video for a broad audience?
Since you took the effort, the specifics:
- Fosi Audio TB10D 600Watt TPA3255 (realistic more like 70 watt)
- Dynaudio Contour 1 MK2
It wasn't cranked full open, more like 60%, with bass slightly over half (unclear what the mid-point is actually)
@@caidNL Fascinating! That 70W suggestion is misleading because the premise is that with an amp like this, most speakers you'd see are either nearfield desktop monitors that you would never pump 70W into anyway or your cheaper 8ohm insensitive bookshelf speakers. At 4ohms (which your speakers are) ASR noted an 88W maximum at their target distortion level, as one example. That isn't enough to damage your speakers outright, but it's dimly possible to have damaged a tweeter with a surprising peak.
And it could be worse than that -- that's not the maximum power, that's the maximum power at the selected distortion target. So when forum posters say it's "realistic more like 70w" or when I say "ASR claims it maxes at 88w in your scenario, actually," that isn't the maximum wattage from the unit, it's the maximum "tolerable" wattage from the unit in terms of total harmonic distortion. Both the 70W into 8ohm and 88w into 4ohm numbers say nothing about what the maximum wattage output is on the dial, and given that they claim 300W maximum, chances are that 60% on the dial is past at least the 70W number and maybe the 88W number, but with 2% or more THD (given that 1% THD was at about 100W and THD should rise pretty quickly outside of the sweet spot). You could've hit some pretty high THD numbers for all I know, as ASR did not bother testing past that 100wpc 1% THD number.
So yes, you probably were getting close to or hearing some clipping. That said, clipping from the amp doesn't automatically mean the speaker broke or should break, and I'd have to defer to someone who knows more about those Contour 1s to know if damage should've even been possible. For example, the Klipsch R-51Ms I bought before I knew better were rated for 85W continuous but like 340W peak (which yikes, don't ever put 340W peak in there). Your Dynaudios are rated at 100W continuous so I'd expect the allowed peak is at least twice that.
All being said, I think those Dynaudios had a problem before you got them but it's technically possible you clipped and damaged a tweeter. I don't think there's any way you damaged a woofer though given the characteristics of the amp. If you can find someone with measurement equipment able to denote what power output in watts per channel corresponded to what dial positions on the Fosi, that would be where I'd go next. It's also worth trying to find the rated peak RMS of the Dynaudios, which didn't come up in a quick Google search and tbh I am not trying harder than I already have on this sorry. And if it turns out that 100W IEC (continuous rating) is a lie and that's actually the peak, then I am very sorry for your loss of speaker because you 100% blew the speaker.
Edit: it looks like the MK 3 got a continuous rating of 150W, which is quite low. I'm really sorry but given the age of these things, there's almost no way you didn't damage them unless they were rebuilt.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest your seller blaming the amp is a quick way to dodge responsibility for selling a dud speaker.
The test is simple... swap the speaker leads, left for right ... does the problem move or does it stay in the same speaker? If it's still in the same speaker it's the speaker, not the amp.
You should know the TPA3255 chip these class D amps are favouring right now is a world class pro-audio device that really does deliver on it's claims. It is used in public address, sound reinforcement, powered monitors, studio monitors, high end home theatre and not a few stereo products. Do a search for "TPA3155 Data Sheet" and you can read about it's true capabilities.
Can an amplifier be defective? Of course it can. But that's why we do simple tests like swapping channels, trying a different pair of speakers, trying a different amp, listening at very low levels and so on to track down the problems.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Meanwhile the speakers in question look like they're 23 years old, so unless they're rebuilt, they're probably pretty damageable.
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I think the electronics idea is going to be a waste of time as I put in a thread below. I think that the electronics with meaningful problems are mostly low-end products -- you'd have to strike a really narrow niche to get it right and it'd be expensive compared to the likely returns.
If you picked a niche like desktop amps and compared noise floors on those, that might have the best audience reach because oftentimes even audiophiles don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a desktop setup on top of their existing listening room/etc.
AVRs are probably the most expensive to test and frankly not a great choice because they're rarely listened to nearfield.
If you really feel like going into electronics, there's probably a decent chance you could test phono stages and get some clicks?
You can't focus on the noise level of amps at such low levels because then none of the class D amps that are coming out on the market would be classed as state of the art anymore. They all suffer the SHHH noise that Erin speaks of.
Just bought a decent class D amp. it's as noisy as my 30 year old technics A/B was with the idle noise but much more powerful though.
Not all. I have about a dozen class D amps on hand for friends and customers, they all check out dead silent while idling. The previous generation chips had some trivial noise that was inaudible a foot away. But overall this new batch is as close dead silent as makes no difference.
The hissing problem so many people cite was mainly in last generation pro-audio gear where a silent noise floor simply isn't needed. They can sacrifice the SNR to drive for more power... which is what public address and sound reinforcement is all about.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 The Hypex ncore are supposed to be state of the art class D. They are certainly not dead silence. You can easily hear the shhhh noise from the tweeter. It should be silent even from 1 inch away from the tweeter. Show me a class D amp that can do that.
@@ProfessorJohnSmith
Okay ... that's actually easy ... almost any amplifier based on the TPA3255 chip. That chip is widely used in pro-audio, home theatre, mid-fi stereo and even some high end studio gear. ... and yes it's in the little mini-amps from China.
Those little amps from Fosi, Aiyima, etc. will surprise you, my friend. A $90 amplifier that will wipe the floor with much of the $5,000+ equipment out there...
I would like it if you reviewed budget to mid range amps and pro amps like the crown stuff.
I bet you could get adequate testing equipment for less than whatever marantz was using.
I know you've poo-pood audible amp differences, but hopefully with amp testing you will endeavor to give at least a brief subjective impression.
👍🌟👍
R7M>>>>R5M
Measurements of electronics is rather boring, good choice on focusing on speakers. Poor performing electronics with great speakers will always trump SOTA electronics with middling speakers. As long as a product hits its rated power and I can’t hear noise from my listening position, I have always been satisfied. Although I appreciate measuring electronics to push designers to increase performance, chasing some measurements at a point becomes meaningless.
Might not one say, listen to as many systems as you can, select the one that pleases, YOU! A very expensive, linear system, may not be as good for, YOU, as another one!
I agree a good pair of speakers is primary if the amplifier isn't up to the task you'll know it's time to save some dollars and upgrade . As far as the inputs go you really don't need to spend all that much for more than adequate vinyl playback. I think it's pretty much the same for digital input sources to.
No room treatment is a waste of the potential of your speakers. Absorber/Diffusor are not even that expensive.
not even close. the music should make u cry. not your gear…. 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
@@rushgush ? what do you mean? when im listen to a JBL Bluetooth boombox i am far from crying😁
People buy the most expensive gear. they put 30000 Dollar speaker and 20000 Dollar amps in a poor room and i have a better experiance with gear that cost a fraction with proper acoustic treatment.
so yeah... it's not all about the money. It is how you use your money/budget .
that's why i am a bit shocked that 60 or so percent dont have treatment at all.
before i invest a fortunate for better gear i look what i can do else... and that would be acoustic treatment
don't do electronics review if they require extra test equipment. honestly im more interested in REQ software reviews than the usual electronics measurements.
For serious hi fi geeks (like me).