You can also listen to this show on Spotify, Apple, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts! Direct links here: upswingpoker.com/podcast/ep1-check-raise/
I can't believe I don't even have to pay to watch all these clips. Thank you so much, I hope and think this podcast will drive more customers to your website.
Future topic: Spots where we want to c/r instead of probe on the turn. From solver work I've done I know how to find some value spots where we like to take these lines but I'm pretty lost when trying to bluff with this sort of line.
Great stuff! Looking forward to future episodes. Does this check-raising strategy apply equally to cash and tournament play? Or is it more for cash games? Thanks!
"tt" means "two-tone", meaning there's two of the same suit on the flop, for example two diamonds or two hearts. It's means there's a flush draw on the flop. Cheers!
@SpicyNuggs562 thanks! I asked ChatGPT to answer this question and it answered like a "know it all rambling child" that clearly didn't know what its was talking about!
By 100bb no ante, do you mean that our baseline assumption is that the hero is 100bb deep, both the hero and villain are 100bb deep simultaneously, or the effective stack is 100bb (for either the hero or villain)?
Absolutely great stuff. Thanks! Question: You say that the global frequency for a board where we have the nut advantage (e.g. Js 6s 4h) should be about 15%. But you don't say how much of that 15% is value and how much is bluffs. Going just by the specific example, you say 44, 66, J6, 64 for value and Q2ss/K3ss, 75/53, 85s with backdoor. I assume that the J6 would have to be suited, or I would have folded preflop, right? So that makes for 18 value hands, assuming I'm playing all 64 preflop. For bluff hands, I count 37 hands (again, assuming I called preflop with all one-gappers). That seems like too high a bluff to value ratio, to me. Granted, all the bluffs are semi-bluffs, so we want it higher than we would for river bluffs, but it still seems too high. Am I mis-counting the hands? If we require our small one-gappers to be suited for us to call preflop, then it is 11 value hands and 13 bluff hands, which makes more sense to me. (But two of those hands are both OE and flush draw. If I want some big draws in my check-call range, those seem like good candidates.) I try to aim for a bluff to value ratio of 1 on the flop in general, but definitely lower for check-raise bluffs. Am I bluffing too little?
You should definitely check-call some of the draws some of the time. That said, 1 to 1 is not enough. I'd bluff more than that. The actual optimal ratio depends on your raise size. 2 to 1 is a solid rule of thumb (but again it depends on sizing)
The point made at the very end a about the solver having a healthy amount of pure floats that most human opponents don’t have in their continuing range - what would be the fastest way to use a solver to find out what boards or even more general outside of highly disconnected boards the solver suggests floating a healthy percentage of the range? This seems like a very good opportunity for “hero “to attack, and or exploit opponents who have some meddling level of understanding of GTO play as well as people without any.
I guess I’m wondering what’s the best way for me to figure out and study those scenarios without having to simply brute force various board permutations one at a time
On the high-frequency boards, why is the bluff to value ratio so high? Is it because much of the bluff range has so much equity (2nd and 3rd nut FDs and OESDs)?...
Amazing content guys, best pod presentation Ive seen, perfectly paced. I have a question here, How do you arrive at 65% cbet Btn vs BB on A62rb? I'm wondering if you could give me a little insight into the ranges you guys are using. In the SIMS ive seen (I'm a tournament guy) This board is cbet 85% for a 1/3 sizing. I understand that lot of these numbers are heavily dependent on range construction preflop, so the takeaways would be different.
you should absolutely be betting this flop more often in tournaments because your opponent's range is going to be so much wider (because of the ante/improved pot odds, obv). In case games their range will be a much higher proportion of Ax and pocket pairs that are never folding, so the c-bet frequency decreases. I'll do my best to contextualize stuff like this for tournaments in future pods. Usually the concepts line up pretty well, but sometimes it's like tournaments are a totally different game.
you and Mike have both nailed it, range construction is very different so we don't want to bet AS much as a tournament where villain will have way more air
Depending on the turn card, usually a mix of bet and checks. On turns that complete a lot of our other bluffs (like the straight draws) we check more often. On total bricks we bet a bit more often. Gary should weigh in as well
Ya mike has nailed it, our top pairs kinda mix between bet and check, betting the strongest ones and checking the weakest ones. If the turn is really really good for our range, then we just bet all our top pairs always, so if we x/r KJ on K75 and the turn is a 3, that's a great card for our range so we just bet all of our top pairs.
Why is KK not a high value starting hand for a K83 rainbow flop? Edit: I assume it's because KK is already a premium hand, check-raising wouldn't necessarily be the right move. You'd rather want to plug it as hard as possible and bet for value.
this is something poker players have picked up from solvers. On boards where we have all of the two pair combos, the solver consistently chooses to check-call with top and bottom, specifically. Maybe Gary can weigh in on the "why" -- I'd just be speculating if I answered that.
@@mbradycf good content. When you smash the board with your two pair combos and sets.. you need to balance your play between fast and slow. Its better to move the hands that unblock top pair into fast because they are more likely to get called and realize value. This forces your other combos to drop into the slow play bucket e.g to top and bottom pair. I've never used a solver.. but this makes sense to me.
It's just a nice hand to strengthen our x/c range. Top two pair is way too strong to x/c very often, and bottom two pair is kinda vulnerable/unblocks top pair really well, top and bottom pair is somewhere in the middle in terms of it's a little vulnerable for being counterfeited so doesn't wanna fast play and also blocks top pair so wants to x/c sometimes.
You can also listen to this show on Spotify, Apple, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts! Direct links here: upswingpoker.com/podcast/ep1-check-raise/
Gary and Mike have really good chemistry. Keep these coming Upswing, you have a home run with these 2. Thanks-
I can't believe I don't even have to pay to watch all these clips. Thank you so much, I hope and think this podcast will drive more customers to your website.
Fantastic episode guys! First time I've had a reason to look forward to Wednesdays!
Great format and content!
Thanks guys! Really well explained and interresting stuff!
Great stuff, guys! Look forward to more.
awesome video guys, looking forward to the next one
Very nice presentation with clear explanation, thanks guys also love the examples ... but i would love even more examples 😍👍👍
Good stuff! Well done guys. 👊
Great job guys-loved the content
Future topic: Spots where we want to c/r instead of probe on the turn. From solver work I've done I know how to find some value spots where we like to take these lines but I'm pretty lost when trying to bluff with this sort of line.
This is great content. I dont think it could have been explained clearer
Fully agree. Great content
Amazing content! Go UpSwing!
Great video Mike. Thank you.
Is this a weekly thing? Can´t wait for the other episodes!
Yep!
I never knew there was this Much calculating in poker!
it's a major rabbit hole!
Great tips!
Top notch!
Great stuff! Looking forward to future episodes. Does this check-raising strategy apply equally to cash and tournament play? Or is it more for cash games? Thanks!
the general concepts apply to both, but our specific examples are cash games.
really great contet 2
What does tt mean in AK7tt? I understand it basically means opposite to rb (rainbow). HELP!
"tt" means "two-tone", meaning there's two of the same suit on the flop, for example two diamonds or two hearts. It's means there's a flush draw on the flop. Cheers!
@SpicyNuggs562 thanks! I asked ChatGPT to answer this question and it answered like a "know it all rambling child" that clearly didn't know what its was talking about!
Love it, very organized. Is the cash and tournament both?
Thanks Matt! It's focused on cash games (100bb no ante) but the general concepts apply to tournaments as well.
By 100bb no ante, do you mean that our baseline assumption is that the hero is 100bb deep, both the hero and villain are 100bb deep simultaneously, or the effective stack is 100bb (for either the hero or villain)?
Absolutely great stuff. Thanks!
Question: You say that the global frequency for a board where we have the nut advantage (e.g. Js 6s 4h) should be about 15%. But you don't say how much of that 15% is value and how much is bluffs.
Going just by the specific example, you say 44, 66, J6, 64 for value and Q2ss/K3ss, 75/53, 85s with backdoor. I assume that the J6 would have to be suited, or I would have folded preflop, right? So that makes for 18 value hands, assuming I'm playing all 64 preflop.
For bluff hands, I count 37 hands (again, assuming I called preflop with all one-gappers). That seems like too high a bluff to value ratio, to me. Granted, all the bluffs are semi-bluffs, so we want it higher than we would for river bluffs, but it still seems too high.
Am I mis-counting the hands? If we require our small one-gappers to be suited for us to call preflop, then it is 11 value hands and 13 bluff hands, which makes more sense to me. (But two of those hands are both OE and flush draw. If I want some big draws in my check-call range, those seem like good candidates.)
I try to aim for a bluff to value ratio of 1 on the flop in general, but definitely lower for check-raise bluffs. Am I bluffing too little?
You should definitely check-call some of the draws some of the time. That said, 1 to 1 is not enough. I'd bluff more than that.
The actual optimal ratio depends on your raise size. 2 to 1 is a solid rule of thumb (but again it depends on sizing)
good stuff
The point made at the very end a about the solver having a healthy amount of pure floats that most human opponents don’t have in their continuing range - what would be the fastest way to use a solver to find out what boards or even more general outside of highly disconnected boards the solver suggests floating a healthy percentage of the range? This seems like a very good opportunity for “hero “to attack, and or exploit opponents who have some meddling level of understanding of GTO play as well as people without any.
I guess I’m wondering what’s the best way for me to figure out and study those scenarios without having to simply brute force various board permutations one at a time
On the high-frequency boards, why is the bluff to value ratio so high? Is it because much of the bluff range has so much equity (2nd and 3rd nut FDs and OESDs)?...
Very good
what does tt mean in poker notation Like “KQ8tt”?
Two tone, in other words, two cards of the same suit
Amazing content guys, best pod presentation Ive seen, perfectly paced. I have a question here, How do you arrive at 65% cbet Btn vs BB on A62rb? I'm wondering if you could give me a little insight into the ranges you guys are using. In the SIMS ive seen (I'm a tournament guy) This board is cbet 85% for a 1/3 sizing. I understand that lot of these numbers are heavily dependent on range construction preflop, so the takeaways would be different.
you should absolutely be betting this flop more often in tournaments because your opponent's range is going to be so much wider (because of the ante/improved pot odds, obv). In case games their range will be a much higher proportion of Ax and pocket pairs that are never folding, so the c-bet frequency decreases.
I'll do my best to contextualize stuff like this for tournaments in future pods. Usually the concepts line up pretty well, but sometimes it's like tournaments are a totally different game.
@@mbradycf Thanks! Would love some tournament tailored points
you and Mike have both nailed it, range construction is very different so we don't want to bet AS much as a tournament where villain will have way more air
What about check raising as the pre flop aggressor?
sounds like a future topic!
How did you arrive at your global frequency percentages?
solver outputs
Why do you have suited aces in your bb range on the flop in a 2bp?
In the Upswing Lab's Advanced Solver Ranges, A4-A2s mix flats. AT-A8s mix flats, and A7-A6s are pure flats. A5s and AJs+ 3-bet pure.
18:20 how do we proceed on the turn if we get called when we check-raise our top pair?
Depending on the turn card, usually a mix of bet and checks. On turns that complete a lot of our other bluffs (like the straight draws) we check more often. On total bricks we bet a bit more often.
Gary should weigh in as well
Ya mike has nailed it, our top pairs kinda mix between bet and check, betting the strongest ones and checking the weakest ones. If the turn is really really good for our range, then we just bet all our top pairs always, so if we x/r KJ on K75 and the turn is a 3, that's a great card for our range so we just bet all of our top pairs.
Why is KK not a high value starting hand for a K83 rainbow flop?
Edit: I assume it's because KK is already a premium hand, check-raising wouldn't necessarily be the right move. You'd rather want to plug it as hard as possible and bet for value.
KK would be 3bet preflop so it’s not in the BB calling range
Gary at 17:46 hahahaha
Oh nooooooooo!
8:40 why is top and bottom pair treated differently and elects to have more calls?
this is something poker players have picked up from solvers. On boards where we have all of the two pair combos, the solver consistently chooses to check-call with top and bottom, specifically.
Maybe Gary can weigh in on the "why" -- I'd just be speculating if I answered that.
@@mbradycf good content. When you smash the board with your two pair combos and sets.. you need to balance your play between fast and slow. Its better to move the hands that unblock top pair into fast because they are more likely to get called and realize value.
This forces your other combos to drop into the slow play bucket e.g to top and bottom pair.
I've never used a solver.. but this makes sense to me.
It's just a nice hand to strengthen our x/c range. Top two pair is way too strong to x/c very often, and bottom two pair is kinda vulnerable/unblocks top pair really well, top and bottom pair is somewhere in the middle in terms of it's a little vulnerable for being counterfeited so doesn't wanna fast play and also blocks top pair so wants to x/c sometimes.
Is this for 100bb?
yep
23:08 ?