I will listen to this one soon but to anyone reading this and playing live 2/5 and below: Overbets on turn & river are almost always thick value. Over fold and you will print.
@@Stockhandle123 agreed. It’s almost always value, no one is properly using this tactic as a bluff, which brought me to the conclusion that I need to be slamming some pots in attempts to steal, when I have a superior range advantage in certain spots
Incredible! I've only been playing for 10 years or so, but this information will change my game! Thank you and I will be returning to you pages and Upswing to learn more ASAP!!🧐😎🤠🤑😍
Its beautiful the way machines solves the game, I really want to try these ideas, but I know that in my local 1/2 game I would just torch 150bbs and get insta called by a cocky rec on the BB holding A4off on AK722 board, and get that sicko needle "that big of size I knew it did not want to be called" But for real now, this content is gold, listening like 2~~3 times every episode and trying to absorve the most, keep it up
Yeah I agree with chrisko. If perfectly normal plays like this are analogous to lighting money on fire, your opponent is probably overcalling by a huge margin, and your job as a thinking player is punish them for that with a savageness that would make a typical UFC fighter blush.
How does this strategy change in a live environment when open sizes are much larger? Example live 1/3 $300 eff. We open to $15, BB calls. We over bet the flop for $45, BB calls. The Pot would be $120 and we have $240 behind. Are we just over bet jamming the turn in this case?
Really enjoyed the SRP strategies. Implemented this twice and made someone fold AX face up on AQJ with 150% flop as a bluff. Second time I did this with KK on AKJ for stacks.
If you're IP on a SRP that comes with AK6 rainbow, you overbet with QJ (bluff) and AK (value), what happens when you have 65s? It's almost a 100% cbet board IP, so if you polarize using an overbet sizing, what sizing do you choose when having nothing? It's not a rhetorical question, I want to understand it.
If you have 65s then you should check because your strategy is betting big with a polarized range of strong hands and bluffs. If you want to c bet 100% of your range then you should use a 33% betting strategy.
Can you speak a little about what our frequency is when we are using this overbet sizing in particular on the flop? In most spots I know big bet goes with low frequency but in these AK6 type spots I think it is big bet + still pretty high frequency. How far down are we going with our cbet overbet bluffs here? A lot of pure air?
My notes from the c-bet video has you saying: Double Broadway Boards: KQ4, AJ6, QT2 - You can down bet or polarized for 75% But you are instead saying that downbetting is "obsolete", at least for Ace double-broadways with a small card? I think I'm missing a nuance.
I’ve seen in early stages of tournaments when we’re deep stacked some players hugely over betting like 2 to 5x the pot. Is that kind of massive overbet size ever advised or are they probably weaker players looking for protection?
On the flop they bet 2x pot? It's likely they're weaker players in that case. But I'd wait to gather a bit more info (their preflop open/3-bet size for example) to make the judgement that they're weak.
In cash games there's definitely flops where you can just stick it in at most stack depths. It's probably not solver approved, but exploitatively it works quite well. For example, if you make a 3-bet with 87s and the flop comes T96 with two cards to a flush on the table, try firing out a small bet and see if you get reraised. Any reraise is evidence that, exploitatively speaking, you need to stick the chips in. The reason is because you're 3-better, so therefore your opponent will likely put you on high cards, which means they're probably thinking that you're jamming with overcards and some kind of combo draw. This makes it easy for the opponent to talk themselves into calling your jam with any set or 2-pair, and you're way ahead of both. Worst case scenario they call with a combo draw themselves, in which case they're only slightly ahead. Not sure about tournaments though. I guess that at normal tournament stack depths you're not really playing a lot of pots with suited connectors anyway, so it's probably a moot point in that case.
Point about how we shouldnt bet protection in 3b pots logic was a little suspect. If our opponent calls w hands that "would have called anyway" its still good for us to shovel money in w our value hands if opp is calling w worse. Slightly nuanced but still good points rest of vid
Yes, betting for value is a better reason. I was specifically addressing the "I need to bet for protection" logic that compels some people to bet in these spots too often. But it's really important to note that our range as the 3-bettor needs to play defensively on these connected flops (in theory). Copy-pasting my response to a similar comment: The overpairs get checked by the solver on those flops to protect the rest of the the range. If you always or very frequently bet overpairs, your checking range on 876 is going to be incredibly weak. In short, you don't have enough strong hands to support both a checking range and a betting range, so the solver ends up checking a huge amount of the time on these types of flops. That said, if you have an exploitative reason to bet -- like you know your opponent is very straightforward and won't put you in tough spots -- betting becomes more attractive. Though I'd still urge you to mix in some checks with overpairs because it tends to lead to some amazing situations and avoid some not so amazing ones.
You gotta slow down. You went all in way too quick after dude bet 1k. If you would've took like 15-20 seconds you would've had a better chance to get called.
Loved making this ep. Happy to answer any questions ✌
Hi, Gary!
Would the only J8, 108, and 98 in your range be the suited ones with backdoor flush draws? (On a turn 8 I mean)
I will listen to this one soon but to anyone reading this and playing live 2/5 and below:
Overbets on turn & river are almost always thick value. Over fold and you will print.
@@Stockhandle123 agreed. It’s almost always value, no one is properly using this tactic as a bluff, which brought me to the conclusion that I need to be slamming some pots in attempts to steal, when I have a superior range advantage in certain spots
I use it more as a bluff than value I'd say
It’s insane that this content is free! I would be absolutely paying for this if I knew how good it was, thanks for all the work!
So does that mean your paying for it now that you proclaimed how good it is
Best free poker content on the internet. Crazy it’s only gotten 8k views.
These are great value for FREE. Thank you
great podcast! thanks for uploading these
These are great podcasts! Timestamps would be a nice addition to these great podcasts. ❤
@ImGoated3
Stoopid
Wow this looks like great stuff! I haven't even watched yet, but I subscribed based on the titles of your video back catalog.
Incredible! I've only been playing for 10 years or so, but this information will change my game! Thank you and I will be returning to you pages and Upswing to learn more ASAP!!🧐😎🤠🤑😍
Great info and delivery of insights 🙌
2nd question. In Live play we see many multi-way pots. Is this strategy effective multi-way?
Yes very much so, you tend to do a lot more smaller betting in multiway pots so you can revert to using 33% or 50% as your cbet size.
Its beautiful the way machines solves the game, I really want to try these ideas, but I know that in my local 1/2 game I would just torch 150bbs and get insta called by a cocky rec on the BB holding A4off on AK722 board, and get that sicko needle "that big of size I knew it did not want to be called"
But for real now, this content is gold, listening like 2~~3 times every episode and trying to absorve the most, keep it up
The counter strategy there is to tone down the bluffs (but still bluff some)
Then overbet with your value until they stop calling at which point you start overbet-bluffing...
You can’t bluff the guy who doesn’t fold so choose wisely
Yeah I agree with chrisko. If perfectly normal plays like this are analogous to lighting money on fire, your opponent is probably overcalling by a huge margin, and your job as a thinking player is punish them for that with a savageness that would make a typical UFC fighter blush.
@@pokersoftwarereviews5051 big words for don’t bluff station, and value bet for bigger
We have covered high paired boards(AAx-JJx) for cbets but can we cover mid to low paired boards? Cheers, I’m finding this super helpful
Great content guys, thanks
How does this strategy change in a live environment when open sizes are much larger? Example live 1/3 $300 eff. We open to $15, BB calls. We over bet the flop for $45, BB calls. The Pot would be $120 and we have $240 behind. Are we just over bet jamming the turn in this case?
A valid question and I think you can adjust your bet size to a pot sized bet so you don't have to play jam or fold on the turn
Very articulate and well paced. Entertaining and informative. Thanks guys !
The SBP advice was very illuminating
Gotta jack up the volume on some of these vids. In The Lab, too.
Really enjoyed the SRP strategies. Implemented this twice and made someone fold AX face up on AQJ with 150% flop as a bluff. Second time I did this with KK on AKJ for stacks.
I thought they said AKJ was bad to bet big on
i want to get better at poker but i don't believe in blockers, range advantage, or GTO. please advise.
If you're IP on a SRP that comes with AK6 rainbow, you overbet with QJ (bluff) and AK (value), what happens when you have 65s? It's almost a 100% cbet board IP, so if you polarize using an overbet sizing, what sizing do you choose when having nothing? It's not a rhetorical question, I want to understand it.
If you have 65s then you should check because your strategy is betting big with a polarized range of strong hands and bluffs. If you want to c bet 100% of your range then you should use a 33% betting strategy.
Feels great with third pair and u get a fold or even better you get that magic river. Feels bad though when you get sticky and it fails.
What would the over bet turn sizing be? 125%?
Nice, my biggest weakness is not knowing when to bet big ! thankyou.
Can you speak a little about what our frequency is when we are using this overbet sizing in particular on the flop? In most spots I know big bet goes with low frequency but in these AK6 type spots I think it is big bet + still pretty high frequency. How far down are we going with our cbet overbet bluffs here? A lot of pure air?
What would you do if you 3b from sb with polarized 67ss and flop came 567 where we’re supposed to check but we have value
My notes from the c-bet video has you saying:
Double Broadway Boards: KQ4, AJ6, QT2
- You can down bet or polarized for 75%
But you are instead saying that downbetting is "obsolete", at least for Ace double-broadways with a small card? I think I'm missing a nuance.
I’ve seen in early stages of tournaments when we’re deep stacked some players hugely over betting like 2 to 5x the pot. Is that kind of massive overbet size ever advised or are they probably weaker players looking for protection?
On the flop they bet 2x pot? It's likely they're weaker players in that case. But I'd wait to gather a bit more info (their preflop open/3-bet size for example) to make the judgement that they're weak.
In cash games there's definitely flops where you can just stick it in at most stack depths. It's probably not solver approved, but exploitatively it works quite well. For example, if you make a 3-bet with 87s and the flop comes T96 with two cards to a flush on the table, try firing out a small bet and see if you get reraised. Any reraise is evidence that, exploitatively speaking, you need to stick the chips in. The reason is because you're 3-better, so therefore your opponent will likely put you on high cards, which means they're probably thinking that you're jamming with overcards and some kind of combo draw. This makes it easy for the opponent to talk themselves into calling your jam with any set or 2-pair, and you're way ahead of both. Worst case scenario they call with a combo draw themselves, in which case they're only slightly ahead. Not sure about tournaments though. I guess that at normal tournament stack depths you're not really playing a lot of pots with suited connectors anyway, so it's probably a moot point in that case.
love it1
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Point about how we shouldnt bet protection in 3b pots logic was a little suspect. If our opponent calls w hands that "would have called anyway" its still good for us to shovel money in w our value hands if opp is calling w worse. Slightly nuanced but still good points rest of vid
Yes, betting for value is a better reason. I was specifically addressing the "I need to bet for protection" logic that compels some people to bet in these spots too often. But it's really important to note that our range as the 3-bettor needs to play defensively on these connected flops (in theory).
Copy-pasting my response to a similar comment: The overpairs get checked by the solver on those flops to protect the rest of the the range. If you always or very frequently bet overpairs, your checking range on 876 is going to be incredibly weak. In short, you don't have enough strong hands to support both a checking range and a betting range, so the solver ends up checking a huge amount of the time on these types of flops.
That said, if you have an exploitative reason to bet -- like you know your opponent is very straightforward and won't put you in tough spots -- betting becomes more attractive. Though I'd still urge you to mix in some checks with overpairs because it tends to lead to some amazing situations and avoid some not so amazing ones.
@@mbradycf :) awesome response thanks
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I am an idiot. I need to see some hands.
You gotta slow down. You went all in way too quick after dude bet 1k. If you would've took like 15-20 seconds you would've had a better chance to get called.