Waterproofs DONT Work?..Gore-Tex, Paramo, eVent ALL Fail
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- / paulmessner
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Check out the full Buffalo. Waterproof test here ruclips.net/video/RLtklD4LSX0/видео.htmlsi=CZPR-akh4XV2HoBW
@@PaulMessner but, do you believe it? And if so, would you test it yourself?
Buffalo kit is great, I bought my first Buffalo Mountain Shirt 30 years ago. I still have and use it, once I had trimmed the pile from the zip areas it was the best mid-layer to wear under a combat jacket, especially in harbour areas, OP hides and when static. But for me it was way too uncomfortable to wear when active, I just find them too hot, even in the Norwegian winter. However, a Buffalo Mountain Shirt, Trousers and maybe with the addition of the Parka and the duel sleeping bag system you can survive anywhere. The Buffalo system works as well today as it ever did, but I would suggest their are better solutions today that couple with changing conditions far better than Buffalo. I mainly carry my Buffalo for emergency use these days.
Was out in my 15 year old Buffalo Mountain Jacket in the rain today. It gets wet but wicks away fast and I'm yet to be wet through to the inside. Good grief it's warm too. Maybe not the most stylish but it does the job very well.
Plus it's made in Sheffield 😁💪
I've a Paramo smock that is probably as old but whatever goes in that front pocket will be very damp when removed. The biggest pain is the shower of water you get when you take it off, which never gets a good reception down the pub.
I do love this technology that isn't all gore-tex and comes at the problem from a different angle, however having said that I've currently got an Alpkit Fortitude which is great for comfort and seems to be keeping all the rain off so far and works well with layering options. Not gore-tex but similar DWR layer approach.
What camera do you use in the rain?
@@Ellieaaarggghhh I filmed this with the DJI action camera
I find if it's pouring with rain, that a silk smoking jacket is the way to go. I put it on, grab a cupper, and watch RUclips .
Is that you, Alastair Sim?
However, boxer shorts or Calvins as an undergarment must be used at all times (in case of an unexpected Amazon delivery).
Legend ❤
A cravat will aid in keeping the chill off the neck
😂
Hi Paul, I was a postman for 37 yrs and for the last 10 of them I used a Paramo Alta 2 jacket and to be honest I found it to be the best jacket I ever used. I could be out in continuous rain and windy conditions for over six hours at a time and it never let me down. the key to keeping it in waterproof condition is to keep it clean with nikwax. I know it seems expensive to recondition these jackets but it's better than getting soaked and being uncomfortable and cold all day
Hi, just wondering what was the work issued jacket like was any good
@@crazypayz9362 When I first started as a postie in 86 the quality of the Royal Mail uniform and wet gear was really good but leading up to privatisation in 2014, obviously to save money they bought cheaper products that didn't do the job they was supposed to. That's when I decided to buy and supply my own. Paramo was my go to jackets and I have stuck with them ever since. I currently have the top of the range Halcon jacket and I have recently purchased another Alta 2 jacket.
100%. Wife and I have a decent goretex jacket each (Berghaus, 25+ years old) and a couple of cheapie Karrimor/Gelert jackets for dog walking. I clean all of them every six months with Nikwax Techwash and then reproof with TX Direct. All done in the washing machine. This seems to keep them beading nicely and dry inside until next time. To be fair, we’re older now and unlikely to set off for a day’s hike in the lashing rain, but for all normal purposes they are waterproof. Another thing not mentioned in the video is that keeping the fabric clean is important. If dirt builds up in the pores, the moisture can’t wick out and you get wet from inside. Regular cleaning helps. When the Berghaus fails me (however long that takes) I will have a serious look at the Paramo.
Yes 100%! Cleaning is the key. I forgot to say that in my long screed, but Paul did mention anyway.
Same as you got the Alta 2 never let me down , use Autumn -Winter , cleaned every year with tech wash and reproofed with Nikwax . The jackets never let me down on wonderful Dartmoor and those little hills in Scotland. I’m also a motorcyclist and the answer to keep it waterproof is the same especially in a downpour at 70 mph 😊👍👍 ps I’ve a Jupik fylraven jacket for deep winter , clean and re-wax every year no problems after five years , and believe a lot of people just don’t keep the waterproofing up to date, ps x marine of 22 years service and been in some very wet places 😊😊👍👍😂 look after your kit and it will look after you
I once washed a woollen jacket with Nick wax DWR, only because it’s very mild, detergent wise.
And I tell you what, it’s ended up being the best waterproof jacket I’ve ever had, but it’s boiling hot 😂 loving the Vids by the way🥂👍
Can I just say what a great job you did on the audio for this, Paul.
I gave up on Gore-Tex years ago - Buffalo all the way!
This has been really helpful - thank you. Plain speaking to understand waterproof clothing. Ìts so easy to make expensive mistakes.
I hate hiking in rain gear, so I started using an umbrella.
How does it fare in wind and rain? And doesn’t it have to be a huge umbrella to clear the drips?
@@tubecated_development I also use an umbrella - actually rainpants and umbrella. So my legs stay dry but I can still ventilate the upperbody. Yes wind is a bother, when very windy I hold the structural poles where they meet the umbrella rather than the handle - as I said a bother but I stay dry and do not sweat.
Try that in Ireland! I visited Sligo many extended times and the locals can always spot the tourists because they have umbrellas. But only for about twenty seconds till they get turn inside out! 😂
If it's really very gnarly, I'm wearing heavy weight military gore-tex with buffalo shirt underneath. That keeps me dry enough whatever the weather. But you look like a solider! Buffalo is great on its own, but you've got to keep moving to keep warm (and pack a spare dry clothes for the evening / sleeping, if you're rough camping). Nothing like experience for finding what works for you. Always pack for the conditions and your own physiology and fitness. Good luck and happy hiking!
The great thing about paramo in my opinion is that you can reproof when it needs washing using Nikwax which is environmentally friendly as well. Any jacket has to re-proofed from time to time and doing the reproofing in the washing machine (paramo) is nice and easy in my opinion. I replaced my goretex, e-vent etc with paramo and I’m glad I did. It works for me.
Hi Paul. Nice video! I did an 8 day backpacking hike in Norway this summer. We had almost constant rain until the last 3 days. Clothes were all soaked, boots soaked because the rivers were so high we could not get across without getting knee keep. Luckily I had a pack cover and a drybag for the sleeping bag/pad and some dry clothes. 400 euro raincoat and pants did not help much after 2 days!
Awesome conditions to go walking in the fells in - a great test of resilience, hill skills, and kit selection. I love my Páramo and now wear that almost exclusively in awesome conditions. Oh, my army gore tex jacket did wet out when spending days in Sennybridge!
I’m liking the Peter storm gear and if I’ve had to reproof anything I’ve found concentrating on the hood / shoulder areas has had the best results
My current proofs are over 3 years old and still going strong
3 years is normal for membrane fabrics. But they start failing later.
I’ve tried loads I’ve been out in the elements for 50 years, I use double ventile. Some hate it, and yes, can get a little damp, and the fabric goes stiff, but I stick with it. You don’t sweat in ventile
You sweat in any clothing, even a linen shirt. Is ventile breathable? Well year to the degree that two layers of very closely woven cotton is "breathable" which is to say, not very. But it will soak up sweat and that sweat will make its way to the surface and evaporate, in the right conditions. But in heavy rain the net of diffusion of water molecules will not be strongly outward - whatever fabric you use. In rain, ambient humidity is very high indeed, very little evaporation goes on from fabric surfaces and sweat vapour condenses easily into cool fabric. And ventile gets dampish from the outside anyway so you have that to contend with. It doesn't dry well between showers and is horrid on multiday hikes when you have to leave wet cotton inside your tent where it fails to try at all.
On long distance hikes I always use my military poncho. It’s quick to put on and off and you don’t sweat because it’s open at the bottom. I’ve had lots of different jacket brands and types too. Some £500 down to 2nd hand but all fail. The poncho is always in my bag
Yes, I walk long distance footpaths and have used lots of different waterproof jackets and they all get wet, some sooner than others. I now wear a poncho in the warm summer rain and then over my Fjallraven g1000 smock in the winter, only if there’s heavy rain. If it’s not too windy, I sometimes use a windproof umbrella. It’s always a compromise.
used Paramo and Buffalo for Mountain rescue days. both performed better than other systems, it does feel like they are wetting out, but just wicking away the moisture However, they do require regular washing /reproofing
They are wetting out. Wetting out is the term the industry uses to describe when DWR fails and so beading stops and so the outer surface gets saturated. Doesn't mean any water is necessarily coming any further in, but it does generally preclude any supposed breathability at that point. Wettend out Goretex which is in good repair is still waterproof. Wetted out Paramo will keep the rain off your inner clothes in most conditions but can fail in heavy sustained rain - this carries on working because the "pump liner" ISN'T wetted out, hopefully. Buffalo with no DWR wets out and passes water inwards fairly easily but the wet pile doesn't feel so wet as you've not got a sheet of damp cloth on your skin but rather only the ends of fibres. Wicking works both ways. Wicking is just diffusion and capilliary action. These are not directional. They are wet to dry.
Thank goodness we’re waterproof and breathable!
Shame we're vulnerable to the cold.. and that's what's being wet makes you.
Ive bought thousands of pounds worth of waterproof clothing over the years, and i still recall a Regatta jacket and trousers i bought years ago which were cheap as you like and did a better job than a lot of the expensive shite i buy now.
Probably made of non breathable plastic fabric, eg nylon. It's like wearing a tarpauline, very water resistant but not at all breathable like modern expensive fabrics. Likewise, a 10p Tesco carrier bag is more waterproof than a £1000 hiking coat.
Yeah same. Regatta Pack-it trousers are great and pretty good breathability too. Had one pair last 8 years of rainy walks before they finally failed. The jackets are a bit of a sweat fest though.
My regatta work high viz coat is top notch
yeh, they were reliable. just wear them for heavy rain and take off when it slows down to light rain. You might get wet inside, but you do anyway with the expensive ones
found the same with a mountain warehouse cycle jacket. Much better and longer lasting than a shower's pass equivalent
I lived in the Lake District for quite a few years and was out on the hills two or three times a week. Over the years, I’ve tried so many types of gear and spent an absolute fortune! The systems that worked best for me are:
Buffalo - Great, but I’d wear a very lightweight waterproof over the top in heavy rain.
Paramo - My overall favorite. Too heavy for summer, but in extreme winter conditions (even torrential rain), it never failed me.
Doubling Up in Blizzard or torrential rain Conditions - I’d wear a Paramo jacket and carry a slightly larger one to layer up when it got extremely cold, windy, or in heavy rain.
I also agree with your point about repellent coatings. They were far superior years ago, but since companies have gone more eco-friendly (which isn’t a bad thing), you have to reproof jackets much more often to keep them working well.
Great video! I love reading all the comments and seeing the different views and ideas.
Had a couple of Paramo jackets - absolutely awful in heavy rain. Luckily got them free through work, I’d be gutted if I’d purchased them with my own money. Ex Army on eBay is the best I’ve ever used - plus easily the cheapest.
Paramo is my favorite when its cold and wet. i've got an Alta 3 and a pair of velez trousers that haven't let me down.
When it's less cold I have a Rab Kinetic alpine jacket that has kept me dry, even though its halfway between a softshell and a waterproof shell. It's very breathable and its stretchy so it's very comfortable and i haven't got sweaty inside it when i've been out. Also Paramo and Rab both have good repair services so they can last a very long time
Am glad I watched this all the way through before commenting!. My british military waterproofs are the best of all my waterproofs, bulky and heavy, but guarantee dryness for multiple days in torrential rain. I have a set of waterproofs from a company called frogtogg ( somthing like that ) , they have never let me down, only two problems with them , 1 can't sinch the hood up completely so water can get in there: 2 it's like paper, tissue thin and just as delicate, so the terrain dictates when to use them. My berghaus jacket is good ( lost the trousers before I wore them ). My fjallraven kit is good , apart from the cap. Have a few other jackets by other brands but never gave them a true testing yet... Take care out there.
The problem with Goretex is heavy rain block's the pores,and it can't breathe.
After 70 years, the best I've found was the old heavyweight PVC. Ok, it didn't breathe, but the rain couldn't get through it.
I found exactly the same riding a motorcycle long distances in heavy rain. Heavyweight PVC was the only material that kept me dry. I rode motorcycles for 56 years before age forced me to stop
Paramo plus a lightweight poncho is the best solution I've found so far, I stay relatively dry and warm, the poncho can also cover my backpack which is also a bonus.
An umbrella is the only waterproof item that keeps me dry.
I just finished the West Highland Way. Kept me completely dry. Others on the trail were miserable.
if the trail allows its use, nothing beats an umbrella.
Indeed ...you can even get a walking kilt which I understand also helps...especially in Scotland...
Umbrellas are great if there's no wind and the path is wide enough to use it. Not so good on narrow tracks up rock faces or when the wind blows the rain sideways! I carry a fold up umbrella in my backpack on long low-level trips because it's the ultimate in breathability.
You guys are going to laugh at this but I spent many years doing land reclamation in south west Wales, working outside in all weathers, mostly very wet. Eventually I discovered that multiple wicking layers topped by a Harris Tweed jacket was the best combination, yes you got wet, but you stayed warm. A waxed cotton gillet was used under extreme conditions. They know a bit about weather in the Outer Hebrides!
Good old sheep’s wool as a kid when packing the fleeces into bags you’d come out covered in sheep oil and never got wet down side it stinks 😂😂😂
When they found Mallory on everest he was wearing a tweed jacket a many thin layers, oh and his pipe
Mallory not Hil
lary. @@porkyparry1
Harris Tweed might be good. The only thing I've got in Harris Tweed is a cap. I'll wear it next time it's chucking it down and see how well it does. If its a success I'll be looking to get a jacket too.
You can’t beat wool for MANY reasons except for weight. Sadly wool is now a waste product which is environmentally criminal..
I have long scarf that was knitted for me by my mother in law many years ago from untreated lanolin rich wool. It is utterly brilliant, never smells, keeps me warm when I need it and when it finally goes, it won’t contaminate the land.
I tend to go with a poncho with a soft shell underneath and quick dry trousers I hate waterproof trousers it works for me even if ponchos make you look silly 😅
100%
If i saw a moth wearing a poncho and quick dry trousers I'd be impressed tbh
I'm a cyclist, I use a poncho with breathable rain pants and waterproof overshoes for motorcyclists, I stay completely dry for hours but I look so uncool.
@@ferruccio4531 I hope you stay moisturized
At least you're giving other wet walkers a laugh !
If it’s not windy, and you don’t need both your hands, a smallish umbrella (I use a “National Trust” Green compact) is great for keeping head and shoulders happy. Some may scorn… but if I’m drier than them, who cares?
My first Goretex long jacket and overtrousers was bought in mid ‘80’s (Sprayway brand). I still have these and still use them - but no longer for hiking - great for wet days and pressure-washing tasks around the garden.
Umbrellas are a no brainer if its not windy. The old saying goes 'any XXXX can be uncomfortable'
An umbrella is always in my pack.
Best rain gear ever.
Back 20 years ago I had a great water proof jacket from REI I used when my son’s scout troop went on their monthly camps. Guaranteed to rain, every time. At home, I’ve used ponchos very successfully. The military uses ponchos. I’d think that covers everyone else’s needs for sure!
The really important thing is staying warm enough. I find it helps to have long sleeves beneath the jacket. The cuffs always get wet. When I cycle tour I wear one jacket on the bike and swap it for a different one once my tent is up, along with everything else I was wearing. Nothing lasts when it is hammering down all day for two consecutive days, which I've had to cope with. Always been cosy in my tent though.
Was in a monsoon up at Wick, the top of Scotland. With with a single layer Gore-Tex Berghaus jacket and Rab Men’s Downpour Eco Waterproof Pants. Only Rab pants failed and I had wet trousers and wet legs. I still have my British Army Gore-Tex jacket still going strong after 40 years of wear
A wax coating homemade works pretty good. I just bought a pair of tenn waterproof shorts which seem to be made of groundsheet with a lining. I bought these in a charity shop for 9 bucks and unfortunately the company is no more.If they get wet the wind blows it away. Genius!
I've been using the same jacket as your Paramo even same colour for at least ten years. Love it, its full of oil and ground in muck now from off road cycling. I really need to get get a new one and it will be the same make and model.
Excellent video Paul, thank you! I have tried so many different makes of jackets over the years but most of them have been Gore Tex. I have just bought a Mountain Equipment Lhotse Jacket and hoping that works for me. It is quite long down my back which was a feature I wanted. On multi-day hikes it gets a bit of a drag being wet early on in a trip. I'm not shy about trekking in the rain. I still have my old Sprayway Gore Tex Jacket which I bought in 1987. The inside taping of the seams have almost all peeled off but otherwise it's at least shower-proof! Thanks for the very informative video. Cheers, Warren :)
It’s why I have settled on Keela SDP (Munro etc) they work and don’t let me down unlike some other much more expensive jackets.
Once it’s on I don’t even notice the weight compared to a jacket that was supposed to be half the weight.
Hi Paul. I use my old field jacket. If it will be cold, I also bring the liner. It has served me for fourty plus years (damn, it has been a long time). I also have my poncho, which fits over my packs and has a liner, which I usually use as a carpet in my tent. I may get some water in around my neck, but rhey have never really failed me.
FYI- falling down in a stream or puddle voids all statements, haha.
My £30 poncho from Decathlon has never failed. Bought it 20 years ago.
Yes mate I got an RAF 3/4 heavy gortex coat extremely well made but heavy ish no hood great for cycle touring had 3 weeks of cycle touring in nearly all solid rain and wind and bloody cold up past arctic circle in Norway 🇳🇴 had to sleep in it coat some nights ,climbing up mountain passes and hills covered approximately 800 miles it’s slightly to big so no sweat problems it comes with detachable sleeveless quilt lining as well all extremely well made and has big pockets it helps immensely as the bike carries your kit
I have used old, new stock. You know unused. Military Gortex for years. It's to heavy for hiking. But does keep you dry. And like everything. High activity, you will get damp. A poncho will work sometimes. And yes, Military Gortex is different. Cheers Paul 🍻. Thanks for your videos.
My favourite, out of the limited ones I've tried, is a Columbia Outdry jacket. Got mine off ebay and it's been great in some pretty nasty weather. It's got massive pit zips and it's quite a robust jacket. I was out for hours during an ultra, in horizontal rain and wind earlier this year. It was only when it started getting dark that I stopped and added a long sleeved top to the technical t-shirt I was wearing. It works differently to gortex so doesn't need reproofing.
A plastic poncho is probably the best rain jacket, and an umbrella helps too. I don't like poncho's but I have friends who use them and they love them, and it keeps em dry. Plus they're cheap. A UL umbrella was my surprise enjoyable piece of kit on my hike in Ireland and Scotland. Not great when it was lashin, but when it was just coming straight down it was really pleasant and kept me dry all day. I never used them in the States hiking and in New Zealand it was just too tight conditions for an umbrella.
Paul, I lost my Quito jacket probably 10yrs ago, I was completely gutted, still gutted today ...I've just got no idea how it disappeared. Thanks for the video, helps a lot!
The best waterproof coat i have is a Ridgeline Monsoon jacket.
Although it has never failed me in ridiculous deluges of rain, it gets hot.
It's okay for a casual walk, but if you're trekking or walking for hours it needs to be less than 5C. Ideally around zero!
I have a regatta jacket , so nowhere near top of the range ive been out a few times now and sometimes in really heavy rain , so far so good 👍 great video Paul
I just wear wool bush shirt and a non breathable waterpoof jacket. The wool soaks up any sweat and if it a hot summers day but has few hours of rain, i just get wet and let my cloths dry out later on. Works perfect for me
I'm entirely in agreement. I've never found one waterproof that I'm happy with. I've moved to Paramo now and am looking forward to testing it when away this weekend.
I've been given a DLX jacket which is much more durable than any other I've had (Berghaus / Mountain Equipment) ...and it's not specifically made for the hiking marketplace. I use it in all inclement weather conditions on an old fuelboat narrowboat on the Macclesfield and Peak Forest canals, it small has to withstand handling bags of coal, logs, kindling, gas cylinders etc on the move. I'd say it keeps me 95% dry in the toughest of conditions.
The best I ever been kept dry was at Ben Nevis in constant rain. My feet were drenched, my legs where clinging to my trowsers, which were clinging to the rain pants. My bag was drenched, even though stuff was in a plastic bag (not well sealed). I had a basic Tog 24 3 in 1 jacket with a fleece inside. I then topped it all with a plain inexpensive packable rain jacket I happened to have on me. It seems the combo stopped any water in, however the layers also created a little ventilation from below and separation which kept my torso pretty dry and comfortable. Perhaps not the most ultralight etc but it impressed the idea upon me.
I used that same idea a number of times in down pours all with good success. A good barrier outside on top of the breathable water resistant, ensure there are gaps inside for ventilation and a good layer (fleece) between you and the first water proof fabric.
I run cold and dry so a simple packet jacket works as well as anything. Nothing really stays waterproof for more than 2 hours of rain.
Tried all sorts of cycle specific waterproofs. All fail after either minutes or hours.
Paul, youve nailed this subject here.
Nice to see you again Paul back out having a nice little walk out in the rain looks very wet there and foggy 🌁 been a bad year for rain this year but stay safe and stay healthy one life enjoy blessed be
yes, also been there and bought just about everything. If its winter I now use a DCF smock with lots of ventilation zips - on each side I have a double zip from wrist to armpit to hip in one continuous zip as well as a front half zip. During the other seasons I use a lightweight waterproof. Regardless of the time of year, I only wear my waterproof if it's actually raining (pretty hard). I wear a long DCF kilt and long gaiters to protect my legs and to reduce the chance of my Barefoot Vivo boots collecting leg run off.
Many moons ago I used Buffalo special 6 and belay jkt as a two layer two layer system for autumn to spring , I've now added a ventile smock from Hilltrek with a double layer on shoulders and hood for seriously poor wet weather. Occasionally I still use my keela Munro jkt, which performs well in extended cold wet conditions, over my base layer and or my special 6 smock. I've also found army issue micro fleece type smocks very useful alternative to Buffalo systems teclite range.
Great video. Ive come to this conclusion myself after various jackets. They all let me down in wet hill walking after a while. Ive decided ita not worth paying more than £100 for a jacket and replace it more often. It seems to be a rare case of buying cheaper regularly than buying once that is expensive.
I'm also a sweaty beast! I've been finding more and more that I prefer natural materials. Merino wool base layer etc and then if i get sweaty i stay warm and it's wicked away, plus I don't stink. I've been trying to work out if I should get a Paramo jacket or something natural that I have to reproof with wax. Natural materials often require more work to look after them but I find it's worth it.
Brilliant video Paul. I run warm as well and expect to get wet.walking gear is for that, camp gear is swopped out and wet gear back on the next day. I once had a Royal Navy waterproof it was a heavy gauge material but crikey it was amazing. I now use a packer a Mac DWP great for the year or two. Then get another. My winter go to is a buffalo type top.
I use a very light umbrella made by Japanese supplier MontBell. There's other brands of cause. As long as it does not rain from the side in strong winds it solves the problem of getting wet from the out- or inside. You may even fix some of these umbrellas to your backpack in order to have both hands free.
You can't beat the Berghaus workhorse waterproof trousers...got the Deluge and Paclite and never ever had wet trousers/legs in downpours. On the cheaper side too! Really interesting vid Paul
Goretex user here, but when I'm on a hammocking trip with a 30 litre rucksack, I go for a completely waterproof poncho that covers me and my rucksack. In the heavy wind, wear a non-waterproof broad-brimmed "bushcraft"-type hat which wets out but only lets my head get wet. Also cinch down the sides of my poncho with paracord when it is windy, but still regularly "flap it about" to vent any water vapour that has built up. I have old but light waterproof leggings to keep off the worst of the rain, but in summer I have shorts with bare legs with waterproof gaiters over my boots & socks. Has kept me completely dry (apart from my legs, of course!).
Huh, this might explain why my early 90's gortex jacket is still going strong :)
That's what we call a quality mountain day!
Duck Dri. A very small manufacturer based in Ibstock a village in Leicestershire make real waterproof gear.
All the local keepers, Beaters, pi kers up use them.
Get yourself one of their coats, lined or not and a pair of chaps. I have been beating across fields in sideways rain a remained dry. It doesn't lose its waterproof quality for years and even then it can be re proofed. Made to measure as well 👍
Ave got an old Berghaus AQ2 from 2012.. All a do is soak it with Fabsil gold then air it... Works for me...👍
Is that like Cuprinol?
@@scotbotvideos is that no for painting sheds n fences 😂😂
@@bdavidson5187 Yeah, but maybe it's works on your gear as well. ;)
@@scotbotvideosnah nae sure aboot black ash or urban grey... Mind you coastal mist sounds lovely... 😂😂😂
Tried loads of different things but still go back to my poncho....
Definitely. I use a snugpak but on a cold day add the liner.
the same happened to me.
I THINK a lot of people get confused with water coming into their jacket vs their own sweat build up. better layers and understanding the layer system stops you from feeling wet
My girlfriend gave me an old Rab pertex+pile jacket, which used to be her school jacket, so 20+ years old. Got the zip repaired by Rab but apart from that it's still in really good nick. Lovely coat and super warm
I've got a Rab Firewall jacket that uses a Pertex construction, I've had it about four years and I've been pretty happy with it, I've re-proofed it once and watching this reminds me that it's due another treatment.
What do you use to waterproof it? My Raab Pertex always soaks the outside layer.
Arcteryx Beta jacket I’ve had for many years has kept the water out. Just finished the Pennine Way and had some awful conditions and it kept me dry from the rain. I did get condensation but not surprised as I had a huge rucksack and went up lots of steep ascents.
I've got a lot of love for sheepskin with G-wax put in with a heat gun. not exactly hike friendly but its nice that even if it eventually gets wet you wont notice until you take it off. I do want to try some sort of very waterproof non-breathable material with just a ton of vents.
I have an old arcteryx theta AR and it has worked extremely well for well over a decade. I do not use it often though.
Another great video Paul. It’s the marketing that gets me - where the brands tell you their clothing is waterproof when they’re not. If you KNOW what the limitations are for your kit, you can plan and prepare accordingly. On another note, I have the same Paramo as yours, but the smock version, meaning there’s not a full zip down the front and it’s as good as any other jacket I have at being waterproof, but it’s much, much warmer.
As joiner working for 8hrs in the rain, potentially 5 days a week sometimes. The best solution ive found for me is layering up with breathable layers then wearing a thin but rubber type jacket, Like sea fishermen wear. 100 percent waterproof. I find depending on time of year if i just take off layers to find a comfortable working temperature then im ok. I dont sweat too much but find id rather sometimes be a little stuffy inside than be soaking wet.
I also own fishing waders waders which are meant to ne breathable. I can stand in a river for hours, chest height not getting wet. I know they are a little rigid but i wonder how this technology is not used for a waterproof jacket. Perhaps it is
Thanks Paul, an interesting 19 minutes. I have an old Trespass long waterproof shell with pit zips. They are great for dealing with overheating, but agree nothing seems to be perfect on long walks. Tried a poncho in Nepal in monsoon rain, but the wind just blew it against the back of my legs. For round the doors I just use my Berghaus or my Peter Storm which I Nikwax TX regularly . Never fancied a Paramo, my half Scottish blood won't let me pay those prices. Oops almost forgot, my Craghoppers Brockton is good. All my jackets are the long versions, don't like those that just come down to past the waist. Keep up the good work.
I used to sail for days in a goretex dry suit. You were constantly in spray and hit by waves so much so I had to wear a motocross style mask because the spray would be so hard the goretex usually performed flawlessly and you kept drying out until your base layer became saturated with salt.
I've had rab, mountain equipment, paramo, and patagonia. Last year I had to buy a new coat and for some reason while standing in the shop I found my eye's staring at a Berghaus cornice older style more relaxed fit. I spent a cold and wet week in Hungary, I've taken it to Wales on recent DofE trips, and after all the slim line mountain fit jackets I've had a longer more relaxed fit just seems to work better.
I thought the only waterproof was the pub, but even that rained in recently
In terms of hats, my possum hat has never let any water in, no matter how torrential. It also dries very quickly and has lasted me through six -25 degree winters in Central Europe, keeping my head very warm. I got it from Survival School in the UK.
Frogg Toggs. Cheap. Lightweight. Wind proof and actually pretty good! It’s all I wear now
Agree. A bit flimsy but for £16 or so can’t complain
Same as a lot of other comments, can't beat a poncho, I've got an OMM windproof jacket that weights 54g and a ponch around 200g. It's like walking in a tent.
Paul's got a Snugpak poncho that he has used in his videos previously. In fact, he even made the same tent joke that you've just made.
Just got the keela pinnacle.. wasn't too sure about buying it because I've had all the other big names and keela are a smaller name.. but it seems to be doing the business for me..
Glad I read your comment I'm so close to getting the pinnacle jacket read alot of reviews but thought can't be that good for such a cheap price, good to know they are decent ill now purchase one 👍
Agree that every ‘breathable’ layer can let through. I’ve Used a Rab Latok which is eVent from around 2006 as my WP layer. Usually I swear by the Rab VaporRise soft shell for most weather as my jacket, been through 3 in the same time as the Latok ! If actual rain starts to happens for more than 20-30 mins then on goes the Latok and an old pair of Burghaus over trousers, bit like yours ! But continuous hours of rain will surely test any modern clothing.
I like paramo but have moved over to Hilltrek which have a number of options. Pump liner with a ventile outer, double ventile both are classed as waterproof and single ventile that's classed as water resistant. Like the fact they are made in Scotland.
I used to use Ventile back in the 60s and 70s. The biggest issue was that it increased in weight dramatically when it got wet. But it was at least as good as most modern shell jackets.
@@alangauld6079 yes definitely and they become like cardboard but apart from that I do enjoy using them.
had my Berghaus 8 years no problems, regulaly machine was it as well.
I started using oilskin (waxed cotton) in 2008 & haven't used anything else since. Having spent hours under rain & walking in thunderstorms (I don't do that anymore 🙄) I never got wet underneath. They are heavy though, hot & definately not "breathable"
I used ponchos a lot in the 80s & with adequate clothing underneath, are prehaps the only true "breathable" option due to the airflow & they help keep a backpack dry too.
The perfect material though hasn't yet been invented but as you say in your closing comments, it's better to be little damp than soaking wet.
Breathable waders material is amazing stuff.
I've cut the neoprene socks off my old sets and used them as waterproof trousers.
I've used most military waterproofs. They are made of heavier material.
One test you can carry out , is to blow on the material, if you feel any air don't buy as it means the water can pass through.
Thanks for taking one for the team. That looked like a very wet day. 🎉
in the early 80s when Goretex was not popular (and expensive) we all used a kind of PU Nylon cagoule jackets.Same material as tarps, I guess, and cheap as chips. Yes, you got wet inside if wore them for a long time. But always stayed warm, and you could also vent them every now and then at the sleeves, armpits, and when rain was behind you you could open up the front zip.
They were very waterproof, but I dont see them in the shops anymore? Only the "breathable jackets" which as you say, are not breathable anyway and much more expensive
I had an eVent and a ventile jacket which I really rated. The nice thing about the eVent is that you can wear it in any condition as it rarely overheats from the inside, but its so rare to find jackets that use it. The ventile had a cool factor, although it does eventually wet out quite spectacularly as it can hold so much water in the material.
For me.. as long as the wind doesn't get through and you're moving it it what it is.. my best running jacket has to be my Montane hard shell original Spine jacket.. been a solid jacket
Paul you should try to get a company that still makes ventile fabric jackets to give you one to try. It was invented in England for the military and is very expensive but apparently really waterproof. I'd love to see that put to test. Not many places make it now as it's expensive to produce.
Great video 👌🏻
Only one company makes the fabric, it isn't waterproof and still relies on a DWR coating. Heavy and even heavier when it gets wet and takes days to dry out which is whole extra problem, I am also a motorcyclist and my 3 layer Goretex suit is definately waterproof for eight hours at 80mph in pouring rain, it's advantage being a thick layer of Cordura and ballistic nylon on the outside which stops the impact pressure of the raindrops. Unless you overnight in heated accomodation this is disastrous for the weight so a PU coated riding overall is the standard solution. We had Ventile in our youth, durable but not waterproof!
Yep. I'm interested in the Keela Ventile Smock for this very reason.
@@jimtitt3571correct, had ventile, will still get wet and when it does a bugger to dry out. As many are saying, there is no one perfect answer. I have options in my rucksack.
Hilltrek uses ventile, used their stuff for quite some time.
It was an English invention designed for pilots immersion suits so I'm guessing it is waterproof if used correctly. It's ment to be double layered. If only we kept our tech and marketed it correctly rather than losing it to foreign companies, we might all be using it. @@jimtitt3571
Up here in Finland the late autumn temperatures are usually getting close to zero (Celsius). I've had multiple Gore-tex jackets over the years and they just don't work well because of the condensation from inside. My theory is that when the temperature difference between outside and inside of the jacket is too big, the vapors can't get out. After I got a Snugpak rain poncho I've stayed dry and happy and saved also a lot of money 🙂
Have you tried turning the jackets inside out which would reverse the temperature differential ?
I wholly agree. Goretex is OK until one starts sweating then it can't cope.
The most waterproof things I have are a German Army poncho and a US Army Woodland Camo poncho.
Weather like that best experienced inside the Pub looking out!
Paramo, is good. But as an expedition leader, if working in a wet environment, like we have in the UK I always use PU coated waterproofs. Seal Flex is my favourite brand of PU waterproof because they have some breathability. Seal Flex is an agricultural brand. Helly Henson PU workwear waterproofs are nearly as good but don't have the breathability but are a little more stylish.But I use both brands. Another advantage is PU is that it is light.
When I first started to hike I belived the marketing and bought a £220 Paramo Alta 2, only to find that it leaked and has always leaked. I now use it locally when I go to my pub. I would never make such a purchase again, I now use a full zipped poncho, £40 and it WORKS!
@@RegEdmunds I like paramo, it is great for activities like cycling for a couple of hours, even running but no I would never wear out day hikes, mountaineering or multi day activities. PU for those actives for me. 80 quid for a light yet 100% windproof and waterproof jacket that does not require DWR to work and consistently works for decades. Technical rain gear, such as goretex and the like is just a very expensive con that only works in a very narrow temperature range.
yes i agree. Where do you buy PU Nylon these days? I find most shops dont sell them anymore
@@timh847Peter storm
Flexothane by sioben are the ones 👌👌used them when pressure washing for years theyve unreal
I use Arktis and barbour wax oil skin barbour 30 plus years old still waterproof hardly breathable bit just open the zip so long as the rains no horizontal 😂cracking work 👍 👌 😂😊
I’ve got a Rab downpour jacket, I think it’s the plus 2. After trying loads of coats of the years that always let water in, it’s the only one that has been totally waterproof. It perhaps suffers a bit with breath ability but not terribly. On the other extreme, I have a cheap pair of hi gear waterproof trousers that have never failed me! Sometimes you just get lucky I think.
I met a couple of mountin rescue guys a few years ago. They both were wearing 2 paramo jackets on on top of the other. They swore this is the best combo.
I was pottering around chatsworth for 4 hours yesterday in no stop rain while wearing the fjallraven eco shell. It hasn't been reproof for a couple of years and continues to remain waterproof apart from the end of the cuffs and the base of the jacket which absorbs the water from my soggy trousers. But need to keep generating heat to avoid feeling cold and ensuring the jacket works.
Anyone else constantly getting ads for the Baerskin waterproof jacket at the moment?
Yep, and I'll never ever buy anything advertised on RUclips
Neither would I....😂
Yep
Inceasent
Errrr yes I even went to an Army Recruitment Day afterwards to complete the militaristic vibe...
I have a ultra lightweigh runners ME firefly for emergencies. I have a midweight jacket , ME but cant remeber the name , but have the ME Changabang , this beast of a jacket has never let me down. Has never wetted out. Ive also kept them clean and washed them with a proofer. I also spray target areas like the shoulders .
I've got one of those British Army Gore Tex jackets. I used to lay in muddles with it on and still stay dry. They're not breathable though, I used to put it on in big downpours and try and stay put. If you try and do much with it on you just get drenched in sweat.
I really like something that is more waterproof than breathable (especially if it has vents)...Columbia Outdry has been a nice find for me...
I've been using a sleeved poncho thats 100% waterproof and has pit zips for the last month or so. It drops heat out like nobodies business being so loose fitting and it covers my pack too. It also has slots in the front so you can use your pack hipbelt to sinch the front down if the wind gets up a bit. The only drawback is its very flappy in high wind but I bought a quick release belt to tie the whole thing down with in windy conditions and it works great. I wouldnt use it in really warm conditions as it isnt breathable whatsoever but in summer I prefer to use a packable storm-proof umbrella (Senz Mini) and a light jacket anyway.
Different times of year and different conditions require different solutions. I also now feel like poncho and cagoule type jackets is an area where some great innovations could be made nowadays.
How come your sleeved poncho didn't have pit zips up until a month ago?
What model of ponch is that? Sounds good. Is it like the snugpak enhanced patrol poncho,which has sleeves?
@effectivemelody Its similar yeah but has a bit more functionality from what I can tell. I might still try the snugpak one just to see how it compares. I think the snugpak one is shorter which may be more useful in some scenarios.
Mine is the Turbat Molfar Pro.
Update: I got sick of the flappyness of my poncho and got a rockfront rain hoody, which isnt breathable being made of silnylon but has the same poncho style zips as the Outdoor Research Foray jackets. It has a longer cut than most any other rain jacket too.
With my OR Helium rain trousers my rain kit now weighs in at only 340g. The Rockfront hoody is excellent and packs down unbelievably small. I'm done with over-priced membrane jackets. Vented, non-breathable items are much better for me.