I'm not surprised they chose the 178. First, if you look at the specs for the 178 and the designed purpose of short imaging at 335mm at F/2.2 at a reasonable end-cost it's actually the correct choice. Yes there are >larger< sensors but they don't work with an Alt-Az methodology of short exposures and very real world field rotation. There are >newer< sensors of similar chip size, but larger pixels, or much larger well depth, or less bit depth. I'm sure these chips were considered and likely prototyped, but for one reason or another none matches the consistency of output as the 178. Star bloat, lower S-N-R, lower dynamic range come to mind. The 150mm aperture and short FL are serious specs which can't be treated as poor technical choices against the stiff competition. Nor can a company like Celestron create such a device 'on the cheap' because they do have both a reputation to uphold, but also a much larger corporation to sustain than the others. Compared to the Stellina and EVScope and Unistellar which are it's direct competitors it immediately stakes a more serious claim to a stand-alone astrograph. Even more serious, they do plan for and to allow upgrade of the camera and use on an equatorial wedge. Now, considering their approach was to start with a RASA design, that immediatly places the cost of just the optics development more than a simple C6+Hyperstar. Redesigning the OTA to house the brains of the system too is totally new... it's not just pluggin in a module, it's a revisiting of the OTA's full purpose even while utilizing existing concept platforms. I honestly expect initial testing to be above the standard fare we saw from other all-in-one astrographs. BTW, I looked around at different images posted and given the image specs (15s exposures stacked) I believe it's actually pretty good compared to many C6 Hyperstar V4 images. I think that's where you'd have to start comparing. Remember too, all the images on the website are from one user using one unit at one location. I'll remind everyone to go and check out early images from all the competition. Lets be more genuine than looking at PR JPEG photos!
@@rifleman542 The target wasn't cheap entry level, it is squarely aimed to shut out Stellina, EVScope, Unistellar. Balking at the price is just sour grapes when realisticly this is more focused in hardware than any competitor to date.
The lack of an EQ mount baffles me. If you're going to do a $4k electronic scope, make it capable of doing longer duration exposures. Even if it's fast, there are limits to what you can get with 10 or 15 second images - the fine, faint details just never come out and rotation issues cut the image down to nothing. Trying to figure out who this is for - wealthy amateurs who don't care about the price and don't want to spend the time doing astrophotography?
@@jasonpatterson8091 they state users can add a wedge in the future, so I think they’re planning on working in the ability to perform long exposures in the future.
@@jasonpatterson8091 You don't have to be wealthy in not wanting to spend time polar aligning etc . I can be imaging in few minutes or grab the odd hole in the clouds on an overcast night on a whim . I am more than happy to accept the downsides of field rotation etc for the speed and convenience.
As someone who transitioned from using the ASI78MC for imaging to using it as a guide camera, I'm really surprised this unit uses the IMX178 sensor. It's nice that they allow camera upgrades, but they're really sandbagging right out the gate. I can see them offering a slightly less outdated sensor a year from now for a lot more money than the sensor is worth.
Thanks! Not just for this video but for all the things you’ve taught me over the past few years. Keep ‘em coming! To answer your question: yes, I pre-ordered one. True that it’s pricey but after using a Vespera 2 I really like being able to get shooting in minutes-without assembly, alignment, focusing, tracking. And I trust Celestron to give us the upgrades or updates we want, like a better camera.
@@davidalbert9387Speed. After shooting with a RASA8 at f/2 I don't like shooting with my refractor at f/5.4 or my SCT at f/7. In my coastal climate I just never get multiple clear nights, and a RASA makes all the difference. Yes, this one needs a better sensor but that will come. On the other hand, I hope they come out with a mosaic mode like Vaonis has. Great concept.
I’m not surprised that you never got ahold of Celestron. Years ago, the tripod for my Nexstar was stolen from the back of my truck while on a star observation trip. I was days away from home and I couldn’t use the scope. I called literally all over North America, every Celestron number I could find, and none of them worked, or ever called me back. I finally found a Nexstar 6 tripod at a dealer in California. They assured me it would fit, and I paid the outrageous price and had it shipped to Texas, where I was staying. All that to say, I won’t be buying from them again. I now have a Seestar and I’m selling the Nexstar for a song😅. Love your channel and your outstanding videos! Keep them coming! PK
Cuiv, Quick story. About 15 years ago I got the Astronomy bug. Mostly viewing little photography. I spent a small fortune.I was fortunate to have unlimited budgets and I was buying scopes and chasing that better look for a few years. Most nights I didn't see much. I live 5 miles from Philadelphia so heavy light pollution. After a couple of years I gave up and sold all my gear at big losses and moved on. Then a month ago I run into a Seestar 50 video on YT and was amazed technology had come that far. I immediately ordered from High Point and had it a few days later. Total investment $500. Throw in the leveling device you recommend and the caps I have maybe $540 tops. I set this scope on my apartment balcony (again, 11 stories up facing Philly) and have seen and photographed more things in a few nights then I saw over a few years spending probably $50K on gear. For me the Seestar is perfect. Would I upgrade if something much better and fairly priced came along? Sure why not. But to make a jump to $4,000 and not being sure I'd get that much better then I'm getting now I think not. Thanks for all your videos on the Seestar and other gear love the channel.
Nice video and I agree with your assessment of the overall package. I too would be interested in the Rasa 6" stand alone. Also, they seriously need to have several camera options if they keep it proprietary.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I got interested in astrophotography because of my seestar s50 and then you get down the inevitable rabit hole of more and better :). For 5k euro you can put something together with for example an am3 mount, a redcat 51 and an entry level cooled camera which will give you better results. I think this is the main problem with these more expensive smart telescopes. In the $500 category there is no competition for seestar s50 and Dwarf 2 because it is practically impossible to put something togeter at that price yourself while at the 5k euro price point there are many options that will give you more flexibility and better results then something like this Celestron (albeit with steeper learning curve). That is why i think that these expensive smart telescopes will be more of a niche product. Someone willing to spend 4k or 5k is probably motivated to learn how to operate a classic rig, just my 0.2 eurocents opinion :)
RASA6 with a small equatorial (harmonic drive) mount and imx585 (maybe even imx533) camera would be a great travel setup! Don't even need the camera to be cooled with modern sensors being so low noise anyway (well it's always cold where I image so that might have spoiled me a little bit).
Hi Cuiv, thanks for yet another nice video! Still I think you are not looking into this with open mind - the “Smart telescopes” as an idea are essentially meant to be a closed, ready-to-use system. The intend behind them was to be used “as is”, so your desire to use the separate parts for other configurations goes directly against that. To be honest this is the first smart-scope that actually is designed with upgrades been possible in mind. Not a single one of the other 10+ models of smart telescopes can do that, so even having the option to upgrade the camera or the tube even in the future is a great plus for this new beast. There is also a major minus that you didn’t mention in the video and that is the weight and portability of the scope, which far exceeds all the models currently on the market. Will be interested to hear your opinion on the Vaonis’ products, especially the company’s choices and actions.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yeah the sample images are not good at all. They should be much better coming from such specs. But to be honest I think showing such images is better since it's closer to what will appear straight out of the scope. In comparison other companies (Vaonis for one) show some pretty edited results in place of a sample inages, just to sell more. And I don't feel this is a right aproach toward customers. Sure you can learn to edit those images or even pull out raws and edit too, but it is still misleading total beginners as to what to expect as a final image coming directly from the telescope. So in this case I would prefer the bad sample images if they are more realistic in this aspect. Also, I do think those were shot with beta software and what the final product will deliver will be better once released.(that was also the case with S50 - prior to the release there were sample images shared and most were just bad, but this was improved a lot in the final software upon release)
Great video, Cuiv! As a fellow C6/Hyperstar user (who got his start on an Evolution 6), I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the new 6" RASA and the seed of what may become a Celestron competitor to the ASIAir. The price of this smart scope system is prohibitively high for most (especially if we've already sprung for a Seestar or Dwarf), but this is such an interesting development because of what it portends for Celestron and its ecosystem in the years to come! That competition is desperately needed in the astrophotography world, even if it is competition between (frustratingly walled-in) ecosystems, and I'm looking forward to it!
@ an 8 SeeStar price, I really hope Celestron does look at providing this scope as a standalone scope, say a RASA 6 with some of the bells and whistles of this system. I like the filter drawer, the built in auto focus idea (as long as it can be controlled by INDI drivers etc), and smaller form factor cameras, as long as we can get cooled cameras. All that for say around a three SeeStar price.
Well, we really won’t know what’s what until someone has the scope in hand and tests it. Given that they must have started the engineering for this at least two years ago (whole new scope here RASA6) I’m sure they needed to have a usable base camera to make the whole thing work and get it out the door to market. At some point you have to lock everything down in the design to actually make it out the door, or it will never get there. Within a year there will most likely be a camera upgrade to keep it current. I can see where Celestron would use a proprietary thread on the camera to corrector plate system in order to lock in their cameras. The camera software is the key here because it has to do so much. GOTO, plate solve, adjust position, adjust focus, take photos, download photos. And then do it all again for your next object. My other thought is that Celestron may come out with their own strain wave mount line in the future. my .02 cents worth.
It also looks like there is a huge shift in Ha because of the RASAs speed. I wonder what filters they use and if they even took the OTAs speed into consideration when selecting them.
I think Celestron made a typo regarding the Wedge . The Evolution Mount requires the smaller (cheaper) Wedge Model # 93665 not the HD Wedge which supports their 11" Fork Mounts . Save a few bucks there . Also , people are talking about the StarSense Align feature . This won't be the usual add-on piece of hardware but instead the entire 6" RASA and camera become the StarSense Calibration Tool . This is quite cool . The StarSense Autoguider will be an external add-on but I don't see any obvious mounting points . I hope you get one to review !
Thanks for another great pre-review. The speed of the optics along with the live stacking and dew protection make the system tempting. But the killers for me are the 178 sensor and alt-az mount. The 178 was my first sensor, I used it for planetary, and I found it really noisy. The alt-az mount limits the quality of the exposures given the field rotation. Why drop 4K on it when I’d have to spend more to swap out the sensor and mount? Why not invest that money into a real rig? For now, my smart telescope needs are being met for 500. Thanks again!
I do understand the idea, and also the choice for an alt/az mount. In your words Cuiv: just "plop" it on the ground and go 🙂. OK, may be a simple levelling, but that could be something similar as is the case for the Seestar. But yeah.... short exposures and field rotation. But now I am thinking: each smartscope does the plate solve trick. Each smart telescope does automatically know its location. So i can imagine, a Seestar like levelling procedure, but now for polar alignment. The scope would park itselve in some sort of "home mode". Just roughly polar align it (manually, screws), and then press "plate solve". The little machine nows it is in its parking position, and should be able to give you some easy to follow commands: turn a bit to the lift and bit up or something. Polar alignment for the masses. Surely, same tech as an app controlled level procedure, so about the same price. Or am I missing something. That could be possible, because of only having a 12" Dobby. And yes: If I was interested in an expensive roboscope, I would probably build it myself. I can imagine that gives more satisfaction, and would be able so save some money...
Good to see all these new setups. I love the RASA, but for a portable system, for the price, I'd rather have my AZ-GTi, controlled with stellarmate, like the video you made. It Works well for a little EAA setup with a 50mm SW scope. And its got EQ mode. For UK weather, you can't beat an F:2 scope though. But £4k, na..
Great review, Cuiv. I have some $5,500 invested in a WO 81 with mount, guide scope and camera, no auto focus. The 4k doesn’t seem so bad for a RASA scope. I would have to agree the camera sensor is a bust. If you could easily swap out the camera for my ASI294MC or any other camera, I think there might be be many others on board. Selling the scope separately would be a plus too, so we could put in on our eguatorial mounts. Keep up the great work you do!
I love your honesty and cutting through the marketing speak being pushed on social media. I was very excited about the release of a rasa6 but not thrilled by the camera and mount choice.
Great video, as always. About the A.I being plastered everywhere, it may just be similar to when motor manufacturers first started offering turbochargers on a large scale, suddenly everything had to have the word turbo attached to it, everything from refrigerators to toasters to lawn mowers, maybe it's nothing more than using a buzz word. Interesting idea though, especially the apparent modularity. (Sorry to read about the C6, was wondering where it had gone).
Cuiv, you are right about all Those comments for the escope, I think now you signed for a testing, not surprise you will get one for evaluation, the Tube is great, just expensive
Sorry to be late to the party, but I just learned of this scope. I enjoy your videos and your take on this pre-release gear. But I couldn't help but chuckle to myself when you mentioned your hope that Celestron hadn't created a "walled-garden ecosystem" while running thru the specs on an Apple Mac...the most "walled-garden ecosystem" ever created! 🤣
As others have said, If Celestron had put out a RASA 6", they would have sold a lot by now. It would be unavailable everywhere, backordered. Maybe a RASA 6"with focusing motor incorporated would have been nice. It would have flown off the shelves! Aside this, I think this products are the future, we are only seen the first steps, but astrophotography is going to become less complicated due to this new products. Not at the price of his one, but it's a start.
For the price it seems to be missing the sweet spot of value for features, The Rasa isn't truly unlocked without PA and how much would it cost to add guiding and a new camera to this? So it's 4k out of the gate maybe another 2-4K for upgrades?
As always, another great review Cuiv. I own an Evolution 6", so the RASA 6" would be interesting. I look forward to your receiving the rig for a hands-on review. Take care...
This is the point of a tech. Hobby when a company like ZWO comes out with a hot selling technology, like the Seestar S50 and everyone wants to jump onboard. I’ve been through this with smart phones and VR. I’d give it a couple of years.
Cuiv excellent video. I too would like to see a RASA 6 standalone OTA. That would be great and affordable. I have the rASA 8 as well as hyperstar on my edge 8 and C9.25 and love the systems. However one thing that I question would be how to collinate this thing should it need it. Do we need to send it back to Celestron for that? Or can we do it ourselves? Is there even a way to do it? I think they are on to something with a RAsA 6 but I would only be interested in just the OtA without the computerized “AI” part to it so I could use it as a standard RASA OTA on any mount and with any camera. I would even like to use an external auto focused such as the EAF. As someone on The Tv show dragnet would say “just the OTA please, Just the OTA!” Bon Soir mon Ami Luis from NY
I'm more excited for the chance of getting a rasa 6 than the smar telescope itself. At that price point I would have opted for an eq mount at least, I hope they have a wedge for it and a pa process like the asiair. The whole point of smart telescopes is to get a cheap-ish grab and go telescope, this is quite the opposite
Pass, for that amount I wood start with ZWO AM3 which leaves $2,500 for scope, hardware and software, which leaves a lot off room for upgrades at a later date.
Since the camera is removable, there is always the hope that a third party will make an adapter for another camera. One other reason to be optimistic on the possibility to use the OTA independantly is that they made it removable. Maybe it was just because it was easier to engineer, but let’s hope it is because they planned to let people have the possibility to use the tube on other mounts.
The adapter isn't the issue - it's the fact that the software is going to be looking for a Celestron camera, likely with specific image scales (possibly for stacking/processing and almost surely for plate solving), and swapping in another camera will likely lead to a nonfunctioning scope.
@@jasonpatterson8091 This would be in the idea of using it on another mount (e.g a ZWO AM5 ;-) ). If it is really powered by a raspberry pi using a customized version of Ekos, the focuser, which is the only other electronic part should have INDI drivers making this upgrade theoretically possible. Or you could maybe even remove the SD card on the raspberry pi, flash it with StellarMate OS and unleash a whole lot of other possibilities. If you don’t mind voiding your warranty of course.
@@damiengalanaud3817 But you can get an 8" RASA for half the price and an EF for a couple hundred bucks more. A 6" RASA might fit some particular niche requirement of someone somewhere, but with a $2k price difference it's going to have to actually be a need in most cases.
I'm curious -- why would you want a RASA instead of a Schmidt-Cassegrain? Having the camera mounted on the front of the telescope will make it nose-heavy, yes? And won't that mean that you always have cables obscuring part of the light-gathering path?
This is amazing!! I pre-ordered one! I'm relatively new to the hobby, and the most challenging thing to master was autofocus... It's nice to see that this will be integrated in the future.
If they sold the RASA 6 I'd be interested but as for the rest I can't see the point imaging with an Alt Az mount as there's always limitations, if it had a wedge on the mount so you could do polar alignment that would help. But using a camera with an old sensor then it seems like its done on the cheap to me. Another bugbare with Celestron mounts is why do they still use servo motors when stepper motors are far superior.
I calculated that C6 on Evolution mount with hyperstar, with ASI178MC with external focuser, starsense and with ASIAir you can get for around $3000... And it will be way more flexible in comparison to this contraption. Only reason to get it instead of normal rig is to have all on one cool factor, not wanting to tinker with hardware and cables.
Vaonis discontinued Stellina, but their Vaonis Vespera line (cheaper and better software esp. mosaic support) is well and alive. I'm also curious how Unistella has managed to sell eVscopes with by far the lowest bang for the buck.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek because I think their audience aren't astrophotographers, EAA observers or astronomy geeks but mostly ones who want either very cool gadget, less care about price but want all on one box automatic and have some interest in Astronomy. Same audience for their new scope. I don't see much value for more dedicated public that actually knows what are they doing.
Great summary! My primary thought is, that Celestron shoud fire whoever provided the pictures this scope presumably takes. Because as you correctly state, these pics - and especially the stars - are total 💩💩💩. So either their „AI“ is destroying the pics, or the marketing department was messing with them….
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I`m not shure on this one... I use the vespera "classic" stacked TIFFs for postprocessing without flats, darks ... and I´m very impressed how much data is hidden in there. I agree that the most pictures from the origin don`t look very good but many seem to be unedited/postprocessed. I´m looking forward for more userreviews to see what ist realy capable of. Personaly I`m back into Astrophotography because of the "smaties" and their short setup. CS Stefan (sorry 4 my english)
If I had that sort of money Cuiv, I would spend it upgrading my own set ups ( I've.just blown my yearly budget on ordering a 115mm f7 refractor complete with flattener and reducer anyway). I don't buy smart scopes I have no interest in them, I actually enjoy building my rigs up and tinkering with them, it's all part of the fun for me. But each to their own I guess. I'm sure plenty of people will love it, looks like something that would be good for out reach projects and the like. Even though I have no intention of buying one of these I would still like to see you do a review, your reviews are always entertaining to watch.
Oh wow, congrats on your refractor!! What are you mounting it on?? Oh and yes I fully agree with you, although there is something I love about those shiny turnkey systems, but that's probably just because I'm a hopeless geek 🤓
I think you are spot on with what you present. Celestron is just trying to ride the wave and never really have a great sales team in recent years. It will be interesting to see how Meade is coming to enter this market as well as Sony and Cannon. I believe that Drwaft and SeeStar shows their is a great opportunity for Smart Telescopes.
And that is how a proper independent review is done ! excellent work Cuiv,, like you, very excited, but depends on if marketing screws it all up ! Fingers crossed they don’t, there’s a big market for those that want/need flexibility in their purchases. Where’s me popcorn
Definitely won't be getting this product (not at this price tag) but indeed OTA only I'd grab in a sec, option without the mount so I can use my own is potentially a viable option (depending on the price). Replacing the RPi4 is also one of the options should Celestron really be looking to lock down the hardware access (walled garden approach).
I am new to the hobby and have a Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT with Starsense autoalign. I am amazed at how bad these systems work. It seems simple to add a compass to the tube to know where north is, and a level to determine azimuth. Instead you have to rely on phone apps... Even with alignment and calibration I have never had the telescope goto the target I select the first time. I always have to add more targets to the alignment to get any accuracy. So instead of the few minutes they advertise, it takes me closer to 30 minutes to get a good alignment.
That’s what I’d love to see in the next generation of smart telescopes- interchangeability. I asked ZWO if they would consider making a user upgradable sensor board for their Seestar S50 using the newer lower noise IMX662 sensor. They did reply, but where that ultimately goes, or ends up who knows?
Yeah I saw it advertised on highpoint scientific one day and was like "ooo that's cool let me take a look" then saw the price. Was turned off, then back on again when I looked at some of the hardware, then back off again when I saw their sample images, then back on again when I realized we could get a standalone RASA 6 in the future. So basically the same reaction, but I just don't know who the market for this thing is. I find that generally people who are willing to spend $4k on an astronomy setup already know what they want and they're going to build it themselves. If I ever buy a smart telescope to play with it'll be a Seestar but I'll never spend $4k on one
I own a Nexstar 8SE and considered buying the Hyperstar system, but was advised against this system. I also noticed the blotted stars in the sample photos, that looked worse than the Seestar. Do you think this system is worthwhile for astrophotography on an Alt/Az mount? Do you think a 4 inch refractor will produce sharper images than a 6inch RASA with a relatively large central obstruction compared to the relatively small 6inch primary mirror (more equivalent to 5inch refractor).
What happened to the days of the Celestron C8 or C11 or C14 Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope on an equatorial mount? (Or Meade). Now everyone is using small optics? I built my own 10" Dobsonian back in 1982 so I'm sold school I guess. That was good for viewing on a budget, but no good for photos, though. Does no one just view the sky anymore? Is there really any fun in just setting up a camera/telescope, going inside, drink coffee, then come back out and take it down?
Yeah I understand the feeling... I've kind of been wanting to get myself a C9.25 again, and just do visual from time to time. But from the city it makes no sense except for planets. I'm also always worried about the SCT lottery!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yes. And summer viewing is often sub-par because of heat waves obstructing viewing. I used to dress in a snowmobile suit and lay in a chaise lounge in the snow to view through my telescope in the winter. Those were the days. 🙂
@@CuivTheLazyGeek also, what is the SCT lottery? Are they now hit-or-miss? Is there no quality control? While I'm here, "back in the day" as we say, Celestron and Meade were the top tier. Orion was second rate. Well, let me tell you that I bought some Orion sky watching binoculars and they were great! They got stolen and I replaced them with some Celestron binoculars. The Orions were much better!
@@dannylgriffin Apparently they've always been hit-or-miss, which was the reason for companies like company7 to exist. From my understanding it's better these days, and the C9.25 with its slower primary is apparently a sweet spot
Cuiv, sounds like you need to attend NEAIC 2024 so you can ask Celestron directly! Good overview - I'm with you, the tube itself might be of more interested than the entire package.
Hoping that they have camera upgrades available soon so that we can see the pricing. If I were to pay that kind of money, I would surely want to see that they are going to support the system long term 😅
I wonder if you know: will this scope image planets? I have seen your review of other smart telescopes which effectively do not - it would be a big plus for me if this one could. Also, if I have understood well, I think the aperture of this scope is much bigger than the other smart scopes you reviewed, is that correct? If yes, how much benefit does that bring (you didn't mention one way or the other in your review). Thanks for great info.
a 330 mm focal length is really too small for planets. The moon should look OK but not great. the big benefit is the fast f/ratio, leading to much smaller integration times for DSOs.
Well, well, as a complete newb to astrophotography, I'm asking myself the following question: If Dwarf and Seestar are entry-level, why not make a video about putting together medium-priced smart telescope on a EQ mount for all the newbies out there. You did an excellent video about putting together a smart scope on a Altz-AZ mount from Skywatcher, you did an excellent review of Stellarmate Pro and ASIAir, why not combining all of these to a a new step-by-step video so that newcomers and intermediate users could have a lot of fun with? Just my 5 cents here. Thanks again for your great videos Cuiv!
Bravo! What a great pre-release spec-analysis. I knew there were reasons I shouldn’t make an impulse buy on this non-Apple product! That chunk of change is remaining allocated to the Apple Vision-pro for now. Thanks for providing such great content!
I really like Celestrom scopes, however Im not a fan of their hardware. They also have a lack of concern when it comes to compatibility. They probably got a lot of 178 at a cheap price since its virtually obsolete. I would very much like to see a RASA 4 in the market though. I would probably get one eventually. Great video to Cuiv. Thanks for the great content.
I had been thinking about this telescope and waiting to see it compared to other options like Stellina, and EVscope 2. I have a 90mm Diam FD APO 621mm focal length refractor that I could not use because it was just too much to set up the EQ mount, counter weights, Star sense while driving hours to decent sky , then dragging it in and out of the car only for the sky to turn cloudy, not including doing all the imaging myself and processing. So at first these automated scopes seemed like a godsend for people that just want to jump into generating data and nice images. But if you have ANYTHING similar to the optical tube i mentioned or BETTER than what's offered in these automated packages (about more than 400mm focal length), just go with ALL ZWO gear, ASIair, its guidescope and guide camera, and a 585 astro camera along with the harmonic EQ mount. you will be $600 LESS than what celestron is trying to sell you (about 400mm, a few years old censor , and Alt Az Limitations on something that IS STRICTLY image based. ) Its not even a contest if you have any type of optical tube between 3kg and 9kg (ish). For celestron to come to the automated all in one package competition this late in the game with their offering it is a scam. They should have waited until they could have offered something that came with its own harmonic drive , because I can probably bet that automated hypothetical ZWO rig with my existing optical tube will make a better image than what the Celestron origin can make , because mine will already have a better sensor AND the ability to track Longer than the Celstron system.
I have the zwo178 sensor, I only use it for autoguiding lately. It also have a large amp glow on more than one corner. Wake me up, when Celestron sells the tube for around $800 or less, the rest they can keep. 😆
Great review. I agree with everything you said. It seems to have been delayed in shipping and is now expected July timeframe. I want to see real world results before making up my mind and certainly wont be pre ordering.
Thank you ! Ever heard here but waiting for the price for ma country. Close to me, in Switzerland 4500 FS. Origin arrives, the S80?, Vespera pro, unistellar 2024 and may be another more ...A giant step . Our choice is bigger and bigger. It's wonderfull. But Saturn, on Dobson 20, for ever in my mind ! Clear skies !
Smart telescope short exposures stacking live portability ease of use. Quick setup, grab and go. This would not include pole alignment and things like that. I have the Stellina telescope and the beautiful thing about it. It is not mounted in the EQ mode, but it has a camera rotator built in. Very impressive but it was $4,000. These scopes are more about an experience than anything else.
I am curious why there are three price points. First is the approximately $4000.00 US Dollar the second is about $ 2500.00 US dollars and then the $500.00 US Dollar point. I was excited when the Vaonis Stellina came out. I know they have different pros and cons, but only the Dwarf and Seestar are portable. I mean pack it as carry on for your flight. I would want them all to be upgradable, especially if it is over the $1000.00 price point. But, I don’t have a major in marketing.
Im very interested in it but it seems like the camera and mount choice were sub-optimal so I will probably just wait and see what future improvements they make.
Very good video. You cover much very thoroughly. First video. I had heard about this tele maybe a month ago and I've been watching as many videos as I can about it because I am a novice fool and would part with $4k IF it were spot on. It's there in a lot of ways but misses on a couple of major points. As a professional photographer, I did not like the actual sample images. I thought they weren't as tight or sharp as I think they should be for the money. Maybe that's the camera which I thought was a little weak. I'm also not sure if it's customizable with the settings. Only 10s exposures? They need to offer some OPTIONS so someone could UPGRADE the camera and an auto guider from the start. There are enough factors that I'll be waiting to see reviews and images for a while.
As a proud SeeStar owner I am good. I am not seeing anything better than the SeeStar that would warrant that much more money. I would be better suited buying several Seestars and having each one track a different object and enjoy. Or having all the Seestars track the same object and have fun stacking all of them together. If I want spend 4k on a rig, I would want to do it the right way and do a custom job…
Last time i saw the proce of the HD Wedge it was nearly £450!! Made no sense, youd be better off spending that towards a proper EQ mount imho. But an interesting system, seems like it might have a level of flexability to it
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Im still debating on if i shuld convert my c6 with the Hyperstar :) id just need a better camera i think as ive only got an ASI224 and also use dslr which onvoudly i couldnt use with the hyperstar
I have a bigger rig and a Seestar . Putting out a RASA smart scope that will be able to upgrade the camera and put it on a wedge , they have totally nailed it . Even at that price they will sell like hotcakes .
More interested where ZWO are going rumours are strong in respect of a Seestar S70 and possibly a S100 as long as they have better sensors .a Equatorial option, better outreach etc...
Make sure ZWO know you will be keen to review them as they arrive, also ask what they are doing about an "equatorial mode for the current model alongside improved "Outreach (the lack of which is probably the most disappointing aspect of the device,,,)@@CuivTheLazyGeek
All I have to say is excellent idea but bad execution 😞 First of all, with the advancement in strain wave technology, why not a pre-balanced strain wave based EQ mount? Az would be best for visual and if used for astrophotography would require either a wedge or camera rotator. The second fail is an uncooled IMX178 sensor which has bad ampglow made even worse when it isn't cooled! If they used one of the newer IMX585 or even IMX678, no cooling is needed as these camera have no amp glow and very low dark current especially with fast exposures at F2 to F3. And finally the worst one, a closed ecosystem as the camera mount is proprietary and just like a lot of other Celestron "smart" gear, only works with Celestron. I mean come on the super expensive dew heater controller still does NOT have an ASCOM driver or the Starsense that only works with Celestron mounts🤬. One good innovation is the filter drawer but does it take standard filters??? Sorry if this seems like a rant but this thing is really disappointing and it hasn't even come out yet!
0:55 .... and that's why I 've never owned a Celestron telescope. Celestron makes some amazing telescopes but the price ...... yikes!!! I ordered the Seestar S50, partially based on having watched your videos on it, just a few days ago and I'll have to be satisfied with that. Hopefully I don't have to wait too long for delivery.
Im getting news from Celestron by email so it was something that peeked my interest but then I saw the price :/ :D ... and the plastic parts look kinda cheap for it ... I guess it will be like always - overpriced and cut corners + as you say walled garden ... I wonder who is the target audience - beginers will not buy it because of the price and professionals/tinkerers have probably better and/or cheaper options already. I do still hope Dwarflab ppl will do some higher tier version one day as I do believe them way more it will be open and best value for the money than celestron. I do like the modular design the Celestron took, it was surprising (but I do also believe they will kill it with limit only to their products).
I would be interested in the Origin for EAA. However I looked at the total integration times for a number of the sample images. For an F2 system, I’m surprised and somewhat disappointed. I would have thought acquisition of a decent image would take far less time. And at $5600 here in Canada, the price/performance ratio just isn’t where I would want it to be. My Seestar, on the other hand, is producing acceptable images in similar timeframes albeit with a bare minimum of post-processing. Has anyone coined the term “EAA Plus?”
I applaud manufacturers introducing new products, but a $4K telescope with a 178 sensor is not going to appeal to many people. ZWO is much better positioned to capitalize on the smart telescopes market.
It is the Tesla profit strategy. Start with high cost, low volume scope with computer, focuser, camera, and mount. Once they squeeze all the profit from that high price point, they will release the 6 inch RASA for $1599.
This is a common pattern for technology product generally--think PCs and cellphones in the 1980s. High cost, low volume--and once the wealthier customers purchase and test-drive the technology, the manufacturer will make it better and cheaper for the rest of us! Let's hope it happens here quickly, because I want my RASA 6! Clear skies!
I'm not surprised they chose the 178.
First, if you look at the specs for the 178 and the designed purpose of short imaging at 335mm at F/2.2 at a reasonable end-cost it's actually the correct choice. Yes there are >larger< sensors but they don't work with an Alt-Az methodology of short exposures and very real world field rotation. There are >newer< sensors of similar chip size, but larger pixels, or much larger well depth, or less bit depth. I'm sure these chips were considered and likely prototyped, but for one reason or another none matches the consistency of output as the 178. Star bloat, lower S-N-R, lower dynamic range come to mind.
The 150mm aperture and short FL are serious specs which can't be treated as poor technical choices against the stiff competition. Nor can a company like Celestron create such a device 'on the cheap' because they do have both a reputation to uphold, but also a much larger corporation to sustain than the others. Compared to the Stellina and EVScope and Unistellar which are it's direct competitors it immediately stakes a more serious claim to a stand-alone astrograph. Even more serious, they do plan for and to allow upgrade of the camera and use on an equatorial wedge.
Now, considering their approach was to start with a RASA design, that immediatly places the cost of just the optics development more than a simple C6+Hyperstar. Redesigning the OTA to house the brains of the system too is totally new... it's not just pluggin in a module, it's a revisiting of the OTA's full purpose even while utilizing existing concept platforms.
I honestly expect initial testing to be above the standard fare we saw from other all-in-one astrographs.
BTW, I looked around at different images posted and given the image specs (15s exposures stacked) I believe it's actually pretty good compared to many C6 Hyperstar V4 images. I think that's where you'd have to start comparing. Remember too, all the images on the website are from one user using one unit at one location. I'll remind everyone to go and check out early images from all the competition. Lets be more genuine than looking at PR JPEG photos!
The camera sensor killed it for me at that price. Excellent review, they should have asked you before putting that system out. Thanks Cuiv!
I think they're banking on the fact that the target market wouldn't necessarily know about or care about the sensors
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yes but still the price point is way too high even for that kind of target market
@@rifleman542 The target wasn't cheap entry level, it is squarely aimed to shut out Stellina, EVScope, Unistellar. Balking at the price is just sour grapes when realisticly this is more focused in hardware than any competitor to date.
It would be awesome if they made just the 6-inch OTA itself, so people can customize their particular setup and with more options on like an EQ mount!
The lack of an EQ mount baffles me. If you're going to do a $4k electronic scope, make it capable of doing longer duration exposures. Even if it's fast, there are limits to what you can get with 10 or 15 second images - the fine, faint details just never come out and rotation issues cut the image down to nothing. Trying to figure out who this is for - wealthy amateurs who don't care about the price and don't want to spend the time doing astrophotography?
At least we'll have the ability to put it on a wedge!
@@jasonpatterson8091 they state users can add a wedge in the future, so I think they’re planning on working in the ability to perform long exposures in the future.
@@jasonpatterson8091 You don't have to be wealthy in not wanting to spend time polar aligning etc . I can be imaging in few minutes or grab the odd hole in the clouds on an overcast night on a whim . I am more than happy to accept the downsides of field rotation etc for the speed and convenience.
As someone who transitioned from using the ASI78MC for imaging to using it as a guide camera, I'm really surprised this unit uses the IMX178 sensor. It's nice that they allow camera upgrades, but they're really sandbagging right out the gate. I can see them offering a slightly less outdated sensor a year from now for a lot more money than the sensor is worth.
Think Ill wait for 6 months or so as Im sure they will address this
Thanks! Not just for this video but for all the things you’ve taught me over the past few years. Keep ‘em coming! To answer your question: yes, I pre-ordered one. True that it’s pricey but after using a Vespera 2 I really like being able to get shooting in minutes-without assembly, alignment, focusing, tracking. And I trust Celestron to give us the upgrades or updates we want, like a better camera.
Congrats on your purchase and thanks for the support! Please let us know once you receive it!
What do you think this can do that the Vespa 2 cannot?
@@davidalbert9387Speed. After shooting with a RASA8 at f/2 I don't like shooting with my refractor at f/5.4 or my SCT at f/7. In my coastal climate I just never get multiple clear nights, and a RASA makes all the difference. Yes, this one needs a better sensor but that will come. On the other hand, I hope they come out with a mosaic mode like Vaonis has. Great concept.
I’m not surprised that you never got ahold of Celestron. Years ago, the tripod for my Nexstar was stolen from the back of my truck while on a star observation trip. I was days away from home and I couldn’t use the scope. I called literally all over North America, every Celestron number I could find, and none of them worked, or ever called me back. I finally found a Nexstar 6 tripod at a dealer in California. They assured me it would fit, and I paid the outrageous price and had it shipped to Texas, where I was staying. All that to say, I won’t be buying from them again. I now have a Seestar and I’m selling the Nexstar for a song😅. Love your channel and your outstanding videos! Keep them coming! PK
Well that's not exactly great customer support for sure... Congrats on the Seestar!
Cuiv, Quick story. About 15 years ago I got the Astronomy bug. Mostly viewing little photography. I spent a small fortune.I was fortunate to have unlimited budgets and I was buying scopes and chasing that better look for a few years. Most nights I didn't see much. I live 5 miles from Philadelphia so heavy light pollution. After a couple of years I gave up and sold all my gear at big losses and moved on. Then a month ago I run into a Seestar 50 video on YT and was amazed technology had come that far. I immediately ordered from High Point and had it a few days later. Total investment $500. Throw in the leveling device you recommend and the caps I have maybe $540 tops. I set this scope on my apartment balcony (again, 11 stories up facing Philly) and have seen and photographed more things in a few nights then I saw over a few years spending probably $50K on gear. For me the Seestar is perfect. Would I upgrade if something much better and fairly priced came along? Sure why not. But to make a jump to $4,000 and not being sure I'd get that much better then I'm getting now I think not. Thanks for all your videos on the Seestar and other gear love the channel.
Nice video and I agree with your assessment of the overall package. I too would be interested in the Rasa 6" stand alone. Also, they seriously need to have several camera options if they keep it proprietary.
I am more interested at a Rasa 6 at a $1500 price point. 5k euro on European astro shops is big money for this smart telescope.
Yes, a RASA6 OTA would be amazing!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I got interested in astrophotography because of my seestar s50 and then you get down the inevitable rabit hole of more and better :). For 5k euro you can put something together with for example an am3 mount, a redcat 51 and an entry level cooled camera which will give you better results. I think this is the main problem with these more expensive smart telescopes. In the $500 category there is no competition for seestar s50 and Dwarf 2 because it is practically impossible to put something togeter at that price yourself while at the 5k euro price point there are many options that will give you more flexibility and better results then something like this Celestron (albeit with steeper learning curve). That is why i think that these expensive smart telescopes will be more of a niche product. Someone willing to spend 4k or 5k is probably motivated to learn how to operate a classic rig, just my 0.2 eurocents opinion :)
RASA6 with a small equatorial (harmonic drive) mount and imx585 (maybe even imx533) camera would be a great travel setup! Don't even need the camera to be cooled with modern sensors being so low noise anyway (well it's always cold where I image so that might have spoiled me a little bit).
@CuivTheLazyGeek your merch links are broken.
@@ThEFurYAsidE Which links? It seems to be working for me!
Hi Cuiv, thanks for yet another nice video! Still I think you are not looking into this with open mind - the “Smart telescopes” as an idea are essentially meant to be a closed, ready-to-use system. The intend behind them was to be used “as is”, so your desire to use the separate parts for other configurations goes directly against that. To be honest this is the first smart-scope that actually is designed with upgrades been possible in mind. Not a single one of the other 10+ models of smart telescopes can do that, so even having the option to upgrade the camera or the tube even in the future is a great plus for this new beast. There is also a major minus that you didn’t mention in the video and that is the weight and portability of the scope, which far exceeds all the models currently on the market.
Will be interested to hear your opinion on the Vaonis’ products, especially the company’s choices and actions.
Good points! Still, even from a pure smart scope standard, their sample images are really mediocre... I hope they get some better images soon :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yeah the sample images are not good at all. They should be much better coming from such specs. But to be honest I think showing such images is better since it's closer to what will appear straight out of the scope. In comparison other companies (Vaonis for one) show some pretty edited results in place of a sample inages, just to sell more. And I don't feel this is a right aproach toward customers. Sure you can learn to edit those images or even pull out raws and edit too, but it is still misleading total beginners as to what to expect as a final image coming directly from the telescope. So in this case I would prefer the bad sample images if they are more realistic in this aspect.
Also, I do think those were shot with beta software and what the final product will deliver will be better once released.(that was also the case with S50 - prior to the release there were sample images shared and most were just bad, but this was improved a lot in the final software upon release)
It will be interesting to see how the images compare to my SeeStar. I doubt they will be $3,500 better.
Great video, Cuiv! As a fellow C6/Hyperstar user (who got his start on an Evolution 6), I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the new 6" RASA and the seed of what may become a Celestron competitor to the ASIAir. The price of this smart scope system is prohibitively high for most (especially if we've already sprung for a Seestar or Dwarf), but this is such an interesting development because of what it portends for Celestron and its ecosystem in the years to come! That competition is desperately needed in the astrophotography world, even if it is competition between (frustratingly walled-in) ecosystems, and I'm looking forward to it!
I agree! I'll look forward to where this goes!
@ an 8 SeeStar price, I really hope Celestron does look at providing this scope as a standalone scope, say a RASA 6 with some of the bells and whistles of this system. I like the filter drawer, the built in auto focus idea (as long as it can be controlled by INDI drivers etc), and smaller form factor cameras, as long as we can get cooled cameras. All that for say around a three SeeStar price.
Needs a mosaic mode like the Vespera.
Well, we really won’t know what’s what until someone has the scope in hand and tests it.
Given that they must have started the engineering for this at least two years ago (whole new scope here RASA6) I’m sure they needed to have a usable base camera to make the whole thing work and get it out the door to market. At some point you have to lock everything down in the design to actually make it out the door, or it will never get there.
Within a year there will most likely be a camera upgrade to keep it current.
I can see where Celestron would use a proprietary thread on the camera to corrector plate system in order to lock in their cameras.
The camera software is the key here because it has to do so much. GOTO, plate solve, adjust position, adjust focus, take photos, download photos. And then do it all again for your next object.
My other thought is that Celestron may come out with their own strain wave mount line in the future.
my .02 cents worth.
It also looks like there is a huge shift in Ha because of the RASAs speed. I wonder what filters they use and if they even took the OTAs speed into consideration when selecting them.
They'll probably go with fairly large band passes like they do with their current filter offering for RASA
I think Celestron made a typo regarding the Wedge . The Evolution Mount requires the smaller (cheaper) Wedge Model # 93665 not the HD Wedge which supports their 11" Fork Mounts . Save a few bucks there . Also , people are talking about the StarSense Align feature . This won't be the usual add-on piece of hardware but instead the entire 6" RASA and camera become the StarSense Calibration Tool . This is quite cool . The StarSense Autoguider will be an external add-on but I don't see any obvious mounting points . I hope you get one to review !
Would be awesome to get one to review for sure!
Thanks for another great pre-review. The speed of the optics along with the live stacking and dew protection make the system tempting. But the killers for me are the 178 sensor and alt-az mount. The 178 was my first sensor, I used it for planetary, and I found it really noisy. The alt-az mount limits the quality of the exposures given the field rotation. Why drop 4K on it when I’d have to spend more to swap out the sensor and mount? Why not invest that money into a real rig? For now, my smart telescope needs are being met for 500. Thanks again!
Yeah exactly, the sensor is swappable (good!) but starting out with the IMX178 is a bummer
I do understand the idea, and also the choice for an alt/az mount. In your words Cuiv: just "plop" it on the ground and go 🙂. OK, may be a simple levelling, but that could be something similar as is the case for the Seestar. But yeah.... short exposures and field rotation.
But now I am thinking: each smartscope does the plate solve trick. Each smart telescope does automatically know its location. So i can imagine, a Seestar like levelling procedure, but now for polar alignment. The scope would park itselve in some sort of "home mode". Just roughly polar align it (manually, screws), and then press "plate solve". The little machine nows it is in its parking position, and should be able to give you some easy to follow commands: turn a bit to the lift and bit up or something. Polar alignment for the masses.
Surely, same tech as an app controlled level procedure, so about the same price. Or am I missing something. That could be possible, because of only having a 12" Dobby.
And yes: If I was interested in an expensive roboscope, I would probably build it myself. I can imagine that gives more satisfaction, and would be able so save some money...
Nice, advanced preview, Cuiv! Thanks for all the information. You made some great points.
Glad you enjoyed it!
It's way out of my price range so it looks nice and I'm glad to see the tech progress.
Good to see all these new setups.
I love the RASA, but for a portable system, for the price, I'd rather have my AZ-GTi, controlled with stellarmate, like the video you made.
It Works well for a little EAA setup with a 50mm SW scope.
And its got EQ mode.
For UK weather, you can't beat an F:2 scope though. But £4k, na..
Great review, Cuiv. I have some $5,500 invested in a WO 81 with mount, guide scope and camera, no auto focus. The 4k doesn’t seem so bad for a RASA scope. I would have to agree the camera sensor is a bust. If you could easily swap out the camera for my ASI294MC or any other camera, I think there might be be many others on board. Selling the scope separately would be a plus too, so we could put in on our eguatorial mounts.
Keep up the great work you do!
Absolutely right! And thanks for your support!!
I love your honesty and cutting through the marketing speak being pushed on social media. I was very excited about the release of a rasa6 but not thrilled by the camera and mount choice.
Yep it will be interesting to see how it pans out :)
Great video, as always. About the A.I being plastered everywhere, it may just be similar to when motor manufacturers first started offering turbochargers on a large scale, suddenly everything had to have the word turbo attached to it, everything from refrigerators to toasters to lawn mowers, maybe it's nothing more than using a buzz word. Interesting idea though, especially the apparent modularity. (Sorry to read about the C6, was wondering where it had gone).
And most of the time it isn't even A I. (someone thought the term would "sell " and all the tech giants jumped aboard ,for no explicable reason ...)
Cuiv, you are right about all
Those comments for the escope, I think now you signed for a testing, not surprise you will get one for evaluation, the Tube is great, just expensive
Would be awesome if I could get a sample!
Sorry to be late to the party, but I just learned of this scope. I enjoy your videos and your take on this pre-release gear. But I couldn't help but chuckle to myself when you mentioned your hope that Celestron hadn't created a "walled-garden ecosystem" while running thru the specs on an Apple Mac...the most "walled-garden ecosystem" ever created! 🤣
As others have said, If Celestron had put out a RASA 6", they would have sold a lot by now. It would be unavailable everywhere, backordered. Maybe a RASA 6"with focusing motor incorporated would have been nice. It would have flown off the shelves! Aside this, I think this products are the future, we are only seen the first steps, but astrophotography is going to become less complicated due to this new products. Not at the price of his one, but it's a start.
That's a good and forward looking summary, thank you!
For the price it seems to be missing the sweet spot of value for features, The Rasa isn't truly unlocked without PA and how much would it cost to add guiding and a new camera to this?
So it's 4k out of the gate maybe another 2-4K for upgrades?
Yeah I tend to agree
As always, another great review Cuiv. I own an Evolution 6", so the RASA 6" would be interesting. I look forward to your receiving the rig for a hands-on review. Take care...
This is the point of a tech. Hobby when a company like ZWO comes out with a hot selling technology, like the Seestar S50 and everyone wants to jump onboard. I’ve been through this with smart phones and VR. I’d give it a couple of years.
Thanks for doing this preview of the specs! Great to get your view of its value for money! Hopefully, Celestron will send you a scope to review ;)
Cuiv excellent video. I too would like to see a RASA 6 standalone OTA. That would be great and affordable. I have the rASA 8 as well as hyperstar on my edge 8 and C9.25 and love the systems. However one thing that I question would be how to collinate this thing should it need it. Do we need to send it back to Celestron for that? Or can we do it ourselves? Is there even a way to do it? I think they are on to something with a RAsA 6 but I would only be interested in just the OtA without the computerized “AI” part to it so I could use it as a standard RASA OTA on any mount and with any camera. I would even like to use an external auto focused such as the EAF. As someone on The Tv show dragnet would say “just the OTA please, Just the OTA!”
Bon Soir mon Ami
Luis from NY
I'm more excited for the chance of getting a rasa 6 than the smar telescope itself. At that price point I would have opted for an eq mount at least, I hope they have a wedge for it and a pa process like the asiair. The whole point of smart telescopes is to get a cheap-ish grab and go telescope, this is quite the opposite
Pass, for that amount I wood start with ZWO AM3 which leaves $2,500 for scope, hardware and software, which leaves a lot off room for upgrades at a later date.
How robust will a RASA be for a beginner? I'm thinking of collimation etc.
I think collimation won't be user accessible since it's made to be a smart scope...
I was seriously considering this scope, but the camera restrictions make it a deal breaker.
Since the camera is removable, there is always the hope that a third party will make an adapter for another camera. One other reason to be optimistic on the possibility to use the OTA independantly is that they made it removable. Maybe it was just because it was easier to engineer, but let’s hope it is because they planned to let people have the possibility to use the tube on other mounts.
The adapter isn't the issue - it's the fact that the software is going to be looking for a Celestron camera, likely with specific image scales (possibly for stacking/processing and almost surely for plate solving), and swapping in another camera will likely lead to a nonfunctioning scope.
It’s removable for portability and travel
@@jasonpatterson8091 This would be in the idea of using it on another mount (e.g a ZWO AM5 ;-) ). If it is really powered by a raspberry pi using a customized version of Ekos, the focuser, which is the only other electronic part should have INDI drivers making this upgrade theoretically possible. Or you could maybe even remove the SD card on the raspberry pi, flash it with StellarMate OS and unleash a whole lot of other possibilities. If you don’t mind voiding your warranty of course.
@@damiengalanaud3817 But you can get an 8" RASA for half the price and an EF for a couple hundred bucks more. A 6" RASA might fit some particular niche requirement of someone somewhere, but with a $2k price difference it's going to have to actually be a need in most cases.
I'm curious -- why would you want a RASA instead of a Schmidt-Cassegrain? Having the camera mounted on the front of the telescope will make it nose-heavy, yes? And won't that mean that you always have cables obscuring part of the light-gathering path?
This is amazing!! I pre-ordered one! I'm relatively new to the hobby, and the most challenging thing to master was autofocus... It's nice to see that this will be integrated in the future.
I hope you'll let me know how you like it once you get it!!
If they sold the RASA 6 I'd be interested but as for the rest I can't see the point imaging with an Alt Az mount as there's always limitations, if it had a wedge on the mount so you could do polar alignment that would help. But using a camera with an old sensor then it seems like its done on the cheap to me. Another bugbare with Celestron mounts is why do they still use servo motors when stepper motors are far superior.
Servos can be excellent when paired with good encoders - can also provide better guiding response as far as I understand!
At that price I'd expect an EQ mount from the start.
I calculated that C6 on Evolution mount with hyperstar, with ASI178MC with external focuser, starsense and with ASIAir you can get for around $3000...
And it will be way more flexible in comparison to this contraption.
Only reason to get it instead of normal rig is to have all on one cool factor, not wanting to tinker with hardware and cables.
Although the same argument can be made with regards to the eVscope 2 or the Stellina... And those still sell, which I find impressive!
Vaonis discontinued Stellina, but their Vaonis Vespera line (cheaper and better software esp. mosaic support) is well and alive. I'm also curious how Unistella has managed to sell eVscopes with by far the lowest bang for the buck.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek because I think their audience aren't astrophotographers, EAA observers or astronomy geeks but mostly ones who want either very cool gadget, less care about price but want all on one box automatic and have some interest in Astronomy.
Same audience for their new scope. I don't see much value for more dedicated public that actually knows what are they doing.
Great summary! My primary thought is, that Celestron shoud fire whoever provided the pictures this scope presumably takes. Because as you correctly state, these pics - and especially the stars - are total 💩💩💩. So either their „AI“ is destroying the pics, or the marketing department was messing with them….
Exactly right Sascha! Things would have been very different if I had been wowed by the sample pictures!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I`m not shure on this one... I use the vespera "classic" stacked TIFFs for postprocessing without flats, darks ... and I´m very impressed how much data is hidden in there. I agree that the most pictures from the origin don`t look very good but many seem to be unedited/postprocessed. I´m looking forward for more userreviews to see what ist realy capable of. Personaly I`m back into Astrophotography because of the "smaties" and their short setup. CS Stefan (sorry 4 my english)
One day someone will make a proper fully automated system on an EQ mount that polar aligns itself too
That would be incredible indeed!
Makes sense now why the 6" SCT OTA has been so hard to source from Celestron and build a hyperstar system.
Ha, you may be right!
If I had that sort of money Cuiv, I would spend it upgrading my own set ups ( I've.just blown my yearly budget on ordering a 115mm f7 refractor complete with flattener and reducer anyway). I don't buy smart scopes I have no interest in them, I actually enjoy building my rigs up and tinkering with them, it's all part of the fun for me. But each to their own I guess. I'm sure plenty of people will love it, looks like something that would be good for out reach projects and the like. Even though I have no intention of buying one of these I would still like to see you do a review, your reviews are always entertaining to watch.
Oh wow, congrats on your refractor!! What are you mounting it on??
Oh and yes I fully agree with you, although there is something I love about those shiny turnkey systems, but that's probably just because I'm a hopeless geek 🤓
At this price point, it should include a guider and wedge.
As an owner of some Celestron gear, I'm still interested to see where they go after this.
Definitely interested in seeing where this goes!
I think you are spot on with what you present. Celestron is just trying to ride the wave and never really have a great sales team in recent years. It will be interesting to see how Meade is coming to enter this market as well as Sony and Cannon. I believe that Drwaft and SeeStar shows their is a great opportunity for Smart Telescopes.
Thanks Steve!
And that is how a proper independent review is done ! excellent work Cuiv,, like you, very excited, but depends on if marketing screws it all up ! Fingers crossed they don’t, there’s a big market for those that want/need flexibility in their purchases. Where’s me popcorn
Hi, is the camera and sony chip the same thing? I know you said the chip is older and camera can (will) be changeable.
Thanks
Celestron is indeed missing the opportunity to sell the separate OTA as you describe.
Definitely won't be getting this product (not at this price tag) but indeed OTA only I'd grab in a sec, option without the mount so I can use my own is potentially a viable option (depending on the price).
Replacing the RPi4 is also one of the options should Celestron really be looking to lock down the hardware access (walled garden approach).
Yep, a RASA6 OTA would be amazing!!
I am new to the hobby and have a Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT with Starsense autoalign. I am amazed at how bad these systems work. It seems simple to add a compass to the tube to know where north is, and a level to determine azimuth. Instead you have to rely on phone apps... Even with alignment and calibration I have never had the telescope goto the target I select the first time. I always have to add more targets to the alignment to get any accuracy. So instead of the few minutes they advertise, it takes me closer to 30 minutes to get a good alignment.
That’s what I’d love to see in the next generation of smart telescopes- interchangeability. I asked ZWO if they would consider making a user upgradable sensor board for their Seestar S50 using the newer lower noise IMX662 sensor. They did reply, but where that ultimately goes, or ends up who knows?
Yeah my guess is that sensor upgrades for the Seestar will require buying a whole new telescope :/
Yeah I saw it advertised on highpoint scientific one day and was like "ooo that's cool let me take a look" then saw the price. Was turned off, then back on again when I looked at some of the hardware, then back off again when I saw their sample images, then back on again when I realized we could get a standalone RASA 6 in the future. So basically the same reaction, but I just don't know who the market for this thing is. I find that generally people who are willing to spend $4k on an astronomy setup already know what they want and they're going to build it themselves. If I ever buy a smart telescope to play with it'll be a Seestar but I'll never spend $4k on one
Exactly, a roller coaster... Things would have been different if the sample images blew me away!
EXCELLENT POINTS CUIV. YOU SPOKE FOR ALL OF US
Totes agree, would be great if it was at least customizable to upgrade the camera and use equatorial mounts of any kind that works with the controller
Cuiv you will have to tell us the story behind the C6 accident. Is the hyperstar still ok? If so prob worth getting a new C6 replacement.
I own a Nexstar 8SE and considered buying the Hyperstar system, but was advised against this system. I also noticed the blotted stars in the sample photos, that looked worse than the Seestar. Do you think this system is worthwhile for astrophotography on an Alt/Az mount? Do you think a 4 inch refractor will produce sharper images than a 6inch RASA with a relatively large central obstruction compared to the relatively small 6inch primary mirror (more equivalent to 5inch refractor).
Difficult to say without actually checking out the RASA6! At least the bloated stars can be fixed by BlurXterminator these days...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek hope you will be one of the first reviewers.
What happened to the days of the Celestron C8 or C11 or C14 Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope on an equatorial mount? (Or Meade). Now everyone is using small optics? I built my own 10" Dobsonian back in 1982 so I'm sold school I guess. That was good for viewing on a budget, but no good for photos, though. Does no one just view the sky anymore? Is there really any fun in just setting up a camera/telescope, going inside, drink coffee, then come back out and take it down?
Yeah I understand the feeling... I've kind of been wanting to get myself a C9.25 again, and just do visual from time to time. But from the city it makes no sense except for planets. I'm also always worried about the SCT lottery!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yes. And summer viewing is often sub-par because of heat waves obstructing viewing. I used to dress in a snowmobile suit and lay in a chaise lounge in the snow to view through my telescope in the winter. Those were the days. 🙂
@@CuivTheLazyGeek also, what is the SCT lottery? Are they now hit-or-miss? Is there no quality control? While I'm here, "back in the day" as we say, Celestron and Meade were the top tier. Orion was second rate. Well, let me tell you that I bought some Orion sky watching binoculars and they were great! They got stolen and I replaced them with some Celestron binoculars. The Orions were much better!
@@dannylgriffin Apparently they've always been hit-or-miss, which was the reason for companies like company7 to exist. From my understanding it's better these days, and the C9.25 with its slower primary is apparently a sweet spot
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I did not know that, and I subscribed to Astronomy magazine for years. I even bought Sky & Telescope on occasion.
Cuiv, sounds like you need to attend NEAIC 2024 so you can ask Celestron directly! Good overview - I'm with you, the tube itself might be of more interested than the entire package.
Hoping that they have camera upgrades available soon so that we can see the pricing. If I were to pay that kind of money, I would surely want to see that they are going to support the system long term 😅
A good point - if it's not successful, the thing could be dead in the water from a support standpoint...
You think for 4K US$ they could have included a better and cooled camera.
I wonder if you know: will this scope image planets? I have seen your review of other smart telescopes which effectively do not - it would be a big plus for me if this one could. Also, if I have understood well, I think the aperture of this scope is much bigger than the other smart scopes you reviewed, is that correct? If yes, how much benefit does that bring (you didn't mention one way or the other in your review). Thanks for great info.
a 330 mm focal length is really too small for planets. The moon should look OK but not great. the big benefit is the fast f/ratio, leading to much smaller integration times for DSOs.
Well, well, as a complete newb to astrophotography, I'm asking myself the following question: If Dwarf and Seestar are entry-level, why not make a video about putting together medium-priced smart telescope on a EQ mount for all the newbies out there. You did an excellent video about putting together a smart scope on a Altz-AZ mount from Skywatcher, you did an excellent review of Stellarmate Pro and ASIAir, why not combining all of these to a a new step-by-step video so that newcomers and intermediate users could have a lot of fun with? Just my 5 cents here. Thanks again for your great videos Cuiv!
Bravo! What a great pre-release spec-analysis. I knew there were reasons I shouldn’t make an impulse buy on this non-Apple product! That chunk of change is remaining allocated to the Apple Vision-pro for now. Thanks for providing such great content!
Looking forward to your review if this scope.
I really like Celestrom scopes, however Im not a fan of their hardware. They also have a lack of concern when it comes to compatibility. They probably got a lot of 178 at a cheap price since its virtually obsolete. I would very much like to see a RASA 4 in the market though. I would probably get one eventually. Great video to Cuiv. Thanks for the great content.
Name the replacement with 2.4um, 15k well depth, 14bit under $500.
I would love the OTA with a EAF. Stick on a 533 or 294 would be awesome little scope!
I had been thinking about this telescope and waiting to see it compared to other options like Stellina, and EVscope 2.
I have a 90mm Diam FD APO 621mm focal length refractor that I could not use because it was just too much to set up the EQ mount, counter weights, Star sense while driving hours to decent sky , then dragging it in and out of the car only for the sky to turn cloudy, not including doing all the imaging myself and processing.
So at first these automated scopes seemed like a godsend for people that just want to jump into generating data and nice images.
But if you have ANYTHING similar to the optical tube i mentioned or BETTER than what's offered in these automated packages (about more than 400mm focal length), just go with ALL ZWO gear, ASIair, its guidescope and guide camera, and a 585 astro camera along with the harmonic EQ mount. you will be $600 LESS than what celestron is trying to sell you (about 400mm, a few years old censor , and Alt Az Limitations on something that IS STRICTLY image based. )
Its not even a contest if you have any type of optical tube between 3kg and 9kg (ish).
For celestron to come to the automated all in one package competition this late in the game with their offering it is a scam.
They should have waited until they could have offered something that came with its own harmonic drive , because I can probably bet that automated hypothetical ZWO rig with my existing optical tube will make a better image than what the Celestron origin can make , because mine will already have a better sensor AND the ability to track Longer than the Celstron system.
I have the zwo178 sensor, I only use it for autoguiding lately. It also have a large amp glow on more than one corner. Wake me up, when Celestron sells the tube for around $800 or less, the rest they can keep. 😆
Great review. I agree with everything you said. It seems to have been delayed in shipping and is now expected July timeframe. I want to see real world results before making up my mind and certainly wont be pre ordering.
concerning guiding. It seems that there is a ascom driver for the S50. only the camera is not supported yet.
Thank you ! Ever heard here but waiting for the price for ma country. Close to me, in Switzerland 4500 FS. Origin arrives, the S80?, Vespera pro, unistellar 2024 and may be another more ...A giant step . Our choice is bigger and bigger. It's wonderfull. But Saturn, on Dobson 20, for ever in my mind ! Clear skies !
Id buy the Rasa 6 Tube. ive owned the evo mount and it was good until the battery failed in it
Smart telescope short exposures stacking live portability ease of use. Quick setup, grab and go. This would not include pole alignment and things like that. I have the Stellina telescope and the beautiful thing about it. It is not mounted in the EQ mode, but it has a camera rotator built in. Very impressive but it was $4,000. These scopes are more about an experience than anything else.
I am curious why there are three price points. First is the approximately $4000.00 US Dollar the second is about $ 2500.00 US dollars and then the $500.00 US Dollar point. I was excited when the Vaonis Stellina came out. I know they have different pros and cons, but only the Dwarf and Seestar are portable. I mean pack it as carry on for your flight. I would want them all to be upgradable, especially if it is over the $1000.00 price point.
But, I don’t have a major in marketing.
Multiple models of Vaonis Vespera are portable, too. And they support mosaic to cover wider field.
Im very interested in it but it seems like the camera and mount choice were sub-optimal so I will probably just wait and see what future improvements they make.
Would be great if you could lift and shift the OTA to an existing EQ mount,
Yep - my guess is they'll support other Celestron mounts down the road
I want the OTA!!! 😋 Same like you including focuser and dew ring. Nevertheless open to any astro camera.
Yesss!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek it would be a must-have-no-matter-what-it-costs telescope. 😄
Very good video. You cover much very thoroughly. First video. I had heard about this tele maybe a month ago and I've been watching as many videos as I can about it because I am a novice fool and would part with $4k IF it were spot on. It's there in a lot of ways but misses on a couple of major points. As a professional photographer, I did not like the actual sample images. I thought they weren't as tight or sharp as I think they should be for the money. Maybe that's the camera which I thought was a little weak. I'm also not sure if it's customizable with the settings. Only 10s exposures? They need to offer some OPTIONS so someone could UPGRADE the camera and an auto guider from the start. There are enough factors that I'll be waiting to see reviews and images for a while.
Agree with this review; so much good and yet some crippling decisions, such as the sensor. Fix it, Celestron!
Your next project should be building a DIY Hyperstar-6 system on a cheap EQ mount, controlled by StellarMate
Be better than their AZ mount version?
Or a RASA6 on AM3 :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek that's be a nice little setup , fingers crossed 🤞 👍
As a proud SeeStar owner I am good. I am not seeing anything better than the SeeStar that would warrant that much more money. I would be better suited buying several Seestars and having each one track a different object and enjoy. Or having all the Seestars track the same object and have fun stacking all of them together. If I want spend 4k on a rig, I would want to do it the right way and do a custom job…
Last time i saw the proce of the HD Wedge it was nearly £450!! Made no sense, youd be better off spending that towards a proper EQ mount imho. But an interesting system, seems like it might have a level of flexability to it
Yep it truly is a rollercoaster of emotions of a system:)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Im still debating on if i shuld convert my c6 with the Hyperstar :) id just need a better camera i think as ive only got an ASI224 and also use dslr which onvoudly i couldnt use with the hyperstar
Good luck if anything breaks on it. You can't even buy a replacement corrector plate for their scopes unless you live in the UK.
I have a bigger rig and a Seestar . Putting out a RASA smart scope that will be able to upgrade the camera and put it on a wedge , they have totally nailed it . Even at that price they will sell like hotcakes .
More interested where ZWO are going rumours are strong in respect of a Seestar S70 and possibly a S100 as long as they have better sensors .a Equatorial option, better outreach etc...
Yesss. I'd love to see what ZWO is up to!
Make sure ZWO know you will be keen to review them as they arrive, also ask what they are doing about an "equatorial mode for the current model alongside improved "Outreach (the lack of which is probably the most disappointing aspect of the device,,,)@@CuivTheLazyGeek
The pictures were disappointing. Also a cooled 585 would have justified the price to me
Yep, agreed
All I have to say is excellent idea but bad execution 😞 First of all, with the advancement in strain wave technology, why not a pre-balanced strain wave based EQ mount? Az would be best for visual and if used for astrophotography would require either a wedge or camera rotator. The second fail is an uncooled IMX178 sensor which has bad ampglow made even worse when it isn't cooled! If they used one of the newer IMX585 or even IMX678, no cooling is needed as these camera have no amp glow and very low dark current especially with fast exposures at F2 to F3. And finally the worst one, a closed ecosystem as the camera mount is proprietary and just like a lot of other Celestron "smart" gear, only works with Celestron. I mean come on the super expensive dew heater controller still does NOT have an ASCOM driver or the Starsense that only works with Celestron mounts🤬. One good innovation is the filter drawer but does it take standard filters??? Sorry if this seems like a rant but this thing is really disappointing and it hasn't even come out yet!
Yep, I agree on your points! At least the filter drawer apparently does take standard filters ... But I really want a RASA6 OTA :-)
Eh doesn't the Vespera Pro have better hardware than the Celestron one? For half the price?
Thank you for you review and for helping me to feel better about not being able to afford this scope 😊
0:55 .... and that's why I 've never owned a Celestron telescope. Celestron makes some amazing telescopes but the price ...... yikes!!! I ordered the Seestar S50, partially based on having watched your videos on it, just a few days ago and I'll have to be satisfied with that. Hopefully I don't have to wait too long for delivery.
is it a cooled camera?
Im getting news from Celestron by email so it was something that peeked my interest but then I saw the price :/ :D ... and the plastic parts look kinda cheap for it ... I guess it will be like always - overpriced and cut corners + as you say walled garden ... I wonder who is the target audience - beginers will not buy it because of the price and professionals/tinkerers have probably better and/or cheaper options already. I do still hope Dwarflab ppl will do some higher tier version one day as I do believe them way more it will be open and best value for the money than celestron.
I do like the modular design the Celestron took, it was surprising (but I do also believe they will kill it with limit only to their products).
The Vespera II has the imx585
The imx178 is the camera of the old Stellina
I would be interested in the Origin for EAA. However I looked at the total integration times for a number of the sample images. For an F2 system, I’m surprised and somewhat disappointed. I would have thought acquisition of a decent image would take far less time. And at $5600 here in Canada, the price/performance ratio just isn’t where I would want it to be. My Seestar, on the other hand, is producing acceptable images in similar timeframes albeit with a bare minimum of post-processing. Has anyone coined the term “EAA Plus?”
I applaud manufacturers introducing new products, but a $4K telescope with a 178 sensor is not going to appeal to many people. ZWO is much better positioned to capitalize on the smart telescopes market.
It should be noted though that the target market may not be aware of sensor generations or quality...
It is the Tesla profit strategy. Start with high cost, low volume scope with computer, focuser, camera, and mount. Once they squeeze all the profit from that high price point, they will release the 6 inch RASA for $1599.
This is a common pattern for technology product generally--think PCs and cellphones in the 1980s. High cost, low volume--and once the wealthier customers purchase and test-drive the technology, the manufacturer will make it better and cheaper for the rest of us! Let's hope it happens here quickly, because I want my RASA 6! Clear skies!
Yes I want my RASA6!!
Good info about the "Origin", Cuiv. $4,000 USD ... I don't think so. I might, just might be interested if it was less than $1500.