What if The RoboCop Movies Had Smooth Stop-Motion?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- What if RoboCop and RoboCop 2 had smoother stop-motion animation for its effects scenes made featuring iconic stop-motion enemies such as ED-209 and Cain? I used an AI program to interpolate the scene to a higher frame rate to see what that would look like.
What do you think of the results?
✨ Programs used:
-I used Flowframes with RIFE to interpolate the framerate from 23.98 fps to 191.74 fps and then used FFMPEG to reduce that back to 60 fps. Flowframes is free (older version, newest version is paid) and you can find it here: nmkd.itch.io/f...
I'm #captrobau and I like to make interesting videos about AI. Don't forget to like this video and subscribe to my channel if you want to see more videos like this. I regularly upload AI upscaling examples, reviews/tutorials for AI software and more.
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You will need to watch at 720p or above to see videos at higher framerates. So check your resolution first, if you can't see the difference.
Also, this is the first video where for the "8x Smoother" parts I mixed normal framerate for parts of the frame with of people and high framerate for the stop-motion. I did this with some clever masking. Tell me if you think this look better than my previous videos.
Lol, yea.. People are so dumb..🤣🤣🤣
@Ian Thomas I looked that scene up because people kept asking but there's hardly any stop motion in it. It's mostly just close ups of a robot amimatronic. So there's not much to smooth out.
I think I suggested this on another video. You mentioned that you masked people's frames to make them look "normal", that is 24fps I suppose ? And that is because if you go above normal framerates the animation looks fake or unnatural. The same could be argued with the robots ! Is it possible with your software and skills to smooth the stop-motion on par with the real people, let's say 24fps instead of 8x ? It might make things more real and you won't have to waste time and energy with the "clever masking". It might be worth a shot, the result might be amazing 😮👍
@CaptRobau do you upscale first then interpolate or the other way round and why? Also what are the advantages of increasing to a higher fps then back down to 60fps?
@@wes_2460 it's not upscaled. And high framerate back to 60 fps is so it will fit on RUclips.
Honestly the jerker stop motion gives Ed 209, robocain, and the rejects that extra creepy vibe. Like when the first reject pulls out the pistol and shoots the scientist, the original stop motion makes it feel more like a malfunctioning machine, while the fixed stop motion makes it look a bit too fluid and smooth to be a machine , but hey. Just my opinion
Totally agree. Jerky stop motion is actually perfect for gigantic, badass robot cyborgs
I agree.
Yes, that's why they are robots. If they had a smoother movement then they wouldn't be like a robot at all.
Agree, an actual person crafted stop motion so it has a unique accentuated look to it, it’s so hard to take your eyes off compared to all the CGI crap we have now.
I support your comment!
The choppy motion of the original gives the machines a more “Imperfect” feel to them when compared to Robocop who is the better among them. It’s visual storytelling in this case.
Nah
Natural tension.
Robo-suspense.
Also, the big issue here is that he upped the framerate and got rid of all motion blur. That's hurting the look significantly. Higher framerate is never the answer. If he had smoothed the footage at 24fps and added some motion blur, it probably would look great.
@@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg Yeah, the difference between the robot and the rest of the movie in terms of framerate is jarring.
@@damage6836 for the year and tech they had: yah
With ED-209, the choppy stop-motion actually works in its favor.
Agreed. I think the reason for it, is that the size of it allows for that type of movement to be convincing. The smoother framerate simulates real time movement, and film is intended to show the illusion of movement, this clashes tremendously. Looks good, but definitely doesn't look better.
Lies again? Slow like turtle
I remember the hair standing up on the back of my neck in the theater the entire time that thing was stalking around with the headlights on. I can't imagine the terror the global south is going to feel when we start deploying these kinds of weapons IRL for American profits. It's going to be a wild show!
The movies are satiricial in nature. I think it absolutely adds to it on multiple levels. Much like the over the top violence.
Look up boston dynamics robots extremely smooth moving.
The stop motion effect made it more scarier.
I have to agree. I'm sure this took a lot more effort than just adding in frames; OP did a wonderful job on this video.
just *scarier.... grammar police out!
@@ampecsu I get what he's saying. Check it out: The enhanced visuals made it scarier than the original which was scary, but in comparing them both the new one becomes more scarier than the other. You see what I'm sayin'? I'm former grammar police, and I'm proud of you for keeping the English language afloat. I'd imagine in the next 200 years we're going to be talking in a much, much different way than now.
@@Ivegotwormsinmemore scarier
Mate the wrong trousers is bloody terrifying
Strangely I think the uncanny valley effect of the limited technology of the time contributed to how unsettling the robotics looked. It actually enhanced the horror because it seemed unnatural.
i get what you mean but its unsettling in a stylized way, when you contrast it with the non-stylized/realistic parts of the film such as the real people it ruins your immersion. thats why stop motion movies that aren't mixed with other mediums like Guillermos Pinocchio, Coraline, Nightmare Before Christmas, etc. work so well.
also the stop motion in the movie is pretty bad even with high fps, way too cartoony.
facts
Couldn't agree more! The way it is, is perfect for it's time. I both love Robo and completely terrified of him at the same time lol. The movements add to that terror lol. I'm more likely to run away from Robo than I would T-800 Arnie. 😂
Jesus Christ loves you and all 😊😊😊😊
@@Immortal_BP Smoothing everything here didn't work for me. If anything it made the macquettes pop out more and feel likely poorly comped in CGI by being extra clean. Of course, given tech limitations at the time, the image compositing is probably the hardest part with the originals.
This is really interesting because it reveals that the lack of smoothness wasn't really the problem. I think it's the lack of mass. Even smooth, they still just seem like plastic models. They just don't look heavy. Like the inertia is off so it doesn't look right. I agree with other comments that the janky original motion seems better sometimes because it masks the mass issue a bit.
For me, I think its the motion blur in each frame that comes naturally with film. 1/24th second is a long time for objects in motion. Even a 10 km/h walking speed is motion over 11 cm in each frame at 24 fps. And much worse if animation is just 12 fps, with each frame doubled (common to save expense).
It's close to impossible to replicate motion blur in stop-motion animation. A common technique was to interpose a glass plate between camera and subject, and with each frame, add vaseline/mineral jelly to just those parts of the image that should have motion blur.
But high frame rate interpolation by AI and downsampling/averaging 8 frames (at 191.74 fps) to 1 frame (at 23.98 fps) goes a long way towards making stop motion look more like the surrounding live action film.
Mmm you made me realize something.. it sounds like any modern motorcycle and “cheap” car. Which, are painted with non metallic paints, like a toy
I think a real Robot will also not look heavy in its way to walk also if it realy is. Its because its build to walk with this heavy as when its normal. Like us humans, as long as we are not much overweight we also not walking as if we weight 70 or 80kg or more (depends on the hight and muscles you have) we walk as if it is not that much because for our body its normal to have that weight. And i think the same will also be on a Robot also when it weights a few tons. You know what i mean? :) (sorry my english isnt that good)
But both look good, i like the original more because it looks more scary :D
The smoth one is sometimes a bit too smoth.
The lack of blur
I just noticed what you are saying here, since I never really studied their movements to notice it before now. It's definitely not the choppiness in the animation, but the fact they don't really have any "impact". They don't move or sound with weight or heft and have little to no effect on their environment.
Yes it looks a lot smoother but I think the old-school stop motion gave it somehow more of an authentic feel and that extra creep factor we all miss.
The problem with the smooth version is mostly that it simply wasn't meant to look that way and that's why it often looks odd. Most motions are way too fast and frantic for its size if you smooth it out. That's why the robot often appears to be smaller and more toy-like in the edited version.
@@TheOldMan-75 absolutely especially that hallway scene with Cain
it's nostalgia. I find the stop motion in every movie to completely take me out of immersion. ( it's bad) it only works when its not used with real actors.
I think the smoothed-out version looks too fast. If they slowed it down 10%, I think that would help.
@@Shinobubutotally agree. I watched Robocop 2 recently and it was so painful.. the stopmotion bothered me the whole time..
Ex-animator here. It’s a quite common technique in classic animation to “lower the framerate” (i.e. Leave one still for 3, 4, 5 frames) deliberately to give the feeling of roughness, heaviness to the animated object.
like how when objects stop it'll look like it's jerkin around for a second?
Somehow the smoother version looks more fake. I have no clue why🤷🏻♂️ I'm perplexed
@@trolojolo6178 I think part of it is what @ThorTyrker is describing, where in the stop motion they'd keep the same frame hanging for a while to give it more weight, where as the AI will start to interpolate between that image and the next (because it's generating the in-between frames to make this higher FPS) immediately. So the timing of the motion is off from what the original artist intended.
There may also be some weird human stuff going on where our brains fill in the blanks on the lower FPS version. 😅
Animating on 3s to give that effect? Nice. I think as animation framerate goes up that 30fps gives that vibe for me these days, moreso with online media being recorded for 60fps. Maybe it'll depend on the recorded footage the animation is paired with e.g. 12-15fps for movie-grade 24fps.
Thank you for sharing your expertise! I've seen a couple of these videos now and have consistently said something about the 'smoother' animation makes it look weird to the eye. I described it as if the remote was stuck on fast-forward but you explained it perfectly, they lack a sense of weight with the smoother animation.
Personally, I think it being a little choppy actually makes it seem more robotic
That's 100% nostalgia and 0% objectivity. I have never seen any Robo Cop and came here from a Terminator 1 (1984) stop motion overhaul with AI. Both reworks are infinitely better and T1 is my favorite movie of all time - not even nostalgia can overpower me recognizing blatanlty obvious facs over being ignorant.
@@47Mortuus dude… I have an opinion, and you have an opinion… it’s ok… get a hobby, join a community service program, find something worth being passionate about… cause this right here is nuts lol.. if you like the original version that’s TOTALLY fine with me
@@SankofaNYC I know it's your opinion - that's why I rephrased it as "nostalgia", which is _also_ completely subjective and not objective. If you saw the new version first, you'd like that one more. We're all flawed, some more than others and some in different ways than others.
@@47Mortuus how are you going to tell me what I would like more??? They literally remaster video games and movies ALL the time. And In the majority of those cases people prefer the remastered version. No one says “When I play Grand Theft Auto 5 on my brand new computer I make sure to turn the settings all the way down so it doesn’t look good and moves choppy, because I love the nostalgia!” No one says “I want to watch some of my favorite old movies, I wish they weren’t in HD though, I original saw it on a low resolution tube TV and that’s how I prefer it!” Lol you literally don’t know wtf you are talking about but you are trying to hard. So yea you are very flawed but I’m not holding it against you. I still do think you should find something positive and to be passionate about though. Good luck out there man lol
@@SankofaNYC I know it because I regularly experience it with music and music only.
Games are a completely different story because no frame is set. When you replay a game, nothing has to look EXACTLY like it did the previous playthrough. But when, suddenly, there is a single new voice actor for a very minor role in the game, it will stick out like a sore thumb to you and you know it.
I actually love how classic stop motion looks. It ads a heavy layer of creepy to it all.
yeah other best example was the Jason and the Argonauts 😁👌
The T-800 from The Terminator (1984) has a more machine like movement with the choppy animation
@@brad_hensil Well then your idea of "robotic" or "machine like" is unfounded.
As seen here ruclips.net/video/P7fi4hP_y80/видео.html robots move 100% smoothly. They stop abruptly once they reach some intermediate position, which is completely different from starting and stopping each tenth of a second while still moving into position B from position A.
For the Terminator especially, the AI interpolation looks more realistic and is more robotic and thus objectively better than stop motion. You may like it more - but hey; flies literally eat shit cuz they like it. Taste differs from person to person.
@@47Mortuus It's not contextually realistic to compare a pre-programmed, pre-ordained, comercially and industrially optimised factory machine movement designed to suit tensile, spacial and inertial requirements for a single specific task, bound entirely in linear actuations that will repeat without change a hundred times a day even if the surrounding circumstances were to change drastically - to a fictional, autonomous AI responding in real time to an ever changing circumstance where it's supposed legitimate decision making would not have been pre-ordained enough to smooth out a pre-programmed path of absolute efficiency. It would very likely be constantly reassessing every movement multiple times a second to confirm it needed to continue with it's movement. There would very likely need to be an almost inperceptable lag every millisecond in the event it needed to change it's intent using a straightforward 'if _ then goto' style code in it's architecture. This is where stop motion's jittery x factor resonates with people. Boston Dynamics experiments would be a closer comparison to objective real-time robotic responses, complete with momentary adjustments and the necesary abruptness that accompanies them no matter how smooth the hydrolics and pneumatics have become between each actuated decision. And even Boston Dynamics are still working within the boundaries of finite environments mapped out in virtual software for the hardware to respond to upto a certain point.
Interpolated frame manipulation might improve certain movements where they tween from point A to point B, but not consistently over the whole shot - whereby point A and point B get cmnpletely obfuscated and overtly smoothed as though over a series of lazy key frames, much like poor CGI artists often do with regards to the portrayal of visual weight and inertia. Used sparingly though, interpolation can help so long as it is a compromise with the orginal stop motion.
@@24secondsperframe68 Dude you know that you haven't made a single point, right? Apart from confirming _exactly_ what I've said ("imperceptible"). Plus, as a professional programmer, listening to you talk is so cringy. You have absolutely no clue of what you're talking about ("if then _ goto style code"? What kinda style is that? - Virtual software? What the f is that supposed to be?). It took you two entire days to write that piece of crap that - again, to summarize, a) doesn't make a single point and b) shows that you have no clue and use terminology you don't understand
It certainly makes it feel more like modern CGI but not necessarily for the better.
Soap opera effect.
I feel like the jankiness fits more because it’s a robot, robots aren’t known for having smooth movements, more so mechanical and binary movement, like animontronics.
@@evanrutledge-sz4yo I know what you mean although modern robots like those from Boston Dynamics move pretty smooth in my eyes.
it looks too perfect to be machines in a real world with physical limitations, it looks like something simulated in a computer. this is why cgi absolutely objective sucks for 90% of things. they use it because it's cheap, not because it's better. but dummies think it's just "nostalgia" lol
@@cagneybillingsley2165 CGI is great at doing things that aren’t physically possible, like giant behemoth monsters, stuff that’s otherworldly. It can do stuff realistically when the artist have enough time to put attention to the details (though they never do because companies push them with deadlines, and at this point they practically make the entire film), but I don’t see why an CGI artist would want to recreate something physical when they could be making something unique.
stop motion effect made the machines feel more robotic as if they didn't move naturally and weren't as well coordinated, while having Robocop moving smoothly helped distinguish him still being a person
Yeah, I think that's why a middle ground between 1 and 8x frames would work best for the one scene where Robocop's being smashed around.
Phil Tippett did such an amazing job with ED-209! One of the best stop motion artists in the industry.
He made it way too choppy in all honesty. C+
This isn't simply a matter of smoother framerate. The problem is that when smoothed, the flaws of the original animation look become more pronounced. At least in the original framerate, our minds can fill in the gaps and make the movements seem plausible.
Our mind can fill in the gaps?? The gaps in framerate? That's not how any of this works.
@@flybeep1661 Yes it is. It's literally how rapidly sequenced images work to produce animation. Nothing is actually moving. Our mind approximates motion by filling in gaps with what we think is supposed to be there. The higher the frame rate, the less wiggle room there is for our brains to do the work. What we see is what we get.
@@MansMan42069 I dunno man I always hate stop motion because all I see is choppy movement. My brain isn't filling in anything.
@@dchawk81 but you still see movement. That's your brain doing its job.
Have you ever seen a professional use a crane vs new kid on site? hell our first cars were like that jerky mess we are bless to have such flexibility in automobiles
Original, purely because the animation terrified me as a kid. Same with the T800 walking down the hallway. It’s just something about the movements that’s so creepy.
F* yeah! The T-800 with the broken leg walking on that Hallway. Hated That scene when i was a kid
Even today, after countless viewings, that last shot of Kyle and Sarah desperately trying to haul the factory door shut with the endo relentlessly bearing down on them in the background still puts my bowels in my throat...
Please don't forget about the depressing soundtrack.
Old Eddie was terrifying to watch as kid in the 80s. The jittery glitchy movement combined with the awesome sound effects was a winning combo. The way he moved just made him seem unpredictable, almost like you were expecting something to go wrong at any moment.
Ed and Cane are still my favourite robot villains
I always thought it was funny, I always looked at the Robocop filmes as dark comedies. Just like Total Recall and Starship Troopers
Somehow, the smoother stop motion breaks the illusion and makes the various robots and cyborgs look like toys. What an interesting side effect. Thank you for this video! Good job!
I was going to say that the smoother motion makes them look more like miniatures somehow. You stated it well. That said, it's a really interesting video and gives insight into how movies work.
I think it is actually the other way around. That cheap looking low frame rate makes it obvious that those scenes are created with toy models and stop motion. It was the only thing I disliked about this movie.
@@elultimopujilense They weren't toys and they weren't cheap. Cinema grade articulated modelwork cost a fortune to construct, and the the time consuming and highly skilled demands of stop motion animation make it a major drain on a film's budget. CGI is the cheap option - which is why it replaced stop motion work overnight in the industry once it came of age - it did a better job for less money. If stop motion FX were a "cheap" option it would surely have stayed around longer!
Although there were a few arthouse uses or classic homages using stop motion after 1990, the Robocop franchise is essentially the last time the technique was used in anger in mainstream movies.
@@CountScarlioni dude, did you really thought I meant a toy that kids plays with? I love movies. I love practical efects. I know the amount of effort that it takes to make those things. I thought It was obvious, but you are too focused in trying to be percieved as smart. I mean, I think we all do that, but you need a good reason for it. Cant believe you wrote that whole comment because you misunderstood my use of the word toy.
@@elultimopujilense No, it was your use of the word *cheap* that provoked me into responding to the comment!
Obviously I didn't think you meant "toy" in a literal sense, but you did choose the word as a dismissive term - to classify something as being of lesser status.
Anyway, it's good to hear we're on the same page when it comes to appreciating old film techniques. If I had you wrong, then I apologise. I guess I've become way too twitchy after seeing soooooo many comments in the past where people ridicule pre-ditigal era films for their FX work. Sadly the one thing they usually say is that it looks cheap when of course that was seldom the case.
There's a soap opera effect thing going on with the 8x version, and I think it's exacerbated by the higher res frames, which makes the scale model used seem more apparent.
Same problem that older shows/movies on 4K screens... oversaturates the image & just looks so much worse/cheap
Bingo! Couldn't have put it better myself.
Yes, it makes it look like video tape instead of film. That’s definitely the “soap opera” effect he’s talking about. Plus, the lighting is different. But I don’t care, because it’s a classic style, just like watching old Ray Harryhausen movies. It’s part of the charm.
there are some sacred basic rules in filmmaking, for professionals and amateurs alike, one of them is "set 24 fps and forget about 30 and above".
@@wingstrongwingstrong exactly. It was like the time Peter Jackson did that to his Hobbit films. 60 frames per second. The movie looked like a video tape presentation with a “live” feel to it. Just awful.
Dang dude the smoother stop motion you made for the robots in Robocop 1 and 2 is incredible man I love it, but the smoother stop motion’s for Ed 209 and robocain is the one I love the most but dang the way they move like that with the smoother stop motion version is completely spectacular.
The smooth version somehow looks cheaper, not that it isn't well executed, but it demonstrates how different tools require different techniques.
Also the fact that the footage is 60 fps instead of 24 doesn't help to make it look more cinematic, with extra frames to the animation it should have looked smoother even when restored back to the original 24 fps. The overall feeling with the smooth version is that the machines are not that heavy or sturdy and thus not dangerous.
Very nice experiment, well done!
Agreed, the 60fps decision was a mistake, dropping it down to 24 might improve it.
@@JustinJ 😐
*_Charles Schwab ova here..._*
"Also the fact that the footage is 60 fps instead of 24 doesn't help to make it look more cinematic,"
This! If you watch it in 480p it looks better, since the whoile video isnt 60 fps anymore.
@@JacquesMesrine94 Listen to the man. He can tell you a couple of three things.
The smoother version feels like CGI and to me, it's actually more artificial feeling. There's a suspension of disbelief that I think we, as humans, employ when we watch something that's pretending to be real. It's why theater will always be held in the highest regard. It is literally a combined effort between the artist and viewer to achieve the effect.
Not everyone has such a powerful suspension of disbelief.
I understand your point of view, but for me the smoother motion made the scenes way more immersive.
no that's cope. both look like shit but at least the smoothed one isn't a ps1 game level of animation
I think what this shows is that the original stop motion was, although a little jerky, pretty damn good and doesn't need replacing
Just like the “improved” version of T2, perfecting the effects in Robocop takes away all the charm.
What improved version? :c
Maybe you meant T1? T2 doesn't have stop motion afaik.
Honestly it wouldn't so bad if they interpolated it to fit the framerate the movie was recorded in, especially if the AI could simulate something like motion blur (or if fake motion blur was added in with like After Effects or something). Doing it higher gives you the Soap Opera Effect, and yeah something about that on live action makes it look real uncanny valley
@@Bonez0r They have one during the Future war scene where there's terminators shooting before one of the Rebels finished one off. It's just hard to notice.
The problem here, is that you have the jerky motion replaced by the 'soap opera' effect which is another problem. The motion should be interpolated and given some motion blur and kept in 24fps
This is it. The framerates don't match, so it looks terrible. The original effects could benefit from some carefully used motion blur, but making it super smooth is the wrong choice.
Totally. And then we watch it at 60fps here on youtube and get a soap opera, like this crappy AI smoothing in TVs
Im just amazed how good this still looks so many years later.
I think I like the original stop motion better.. also as a mechanic engineering type person, I really appreciate the fact that the ED-209 has a constant electric whirring noise when operating from what I would imagine as a hydraulic accumulator or pump that provides pressure for all the moving hydraulic pistons and motors..so cool on the details in these old movies
The original had a jankyness to it that made it feel mechanical, and heavy.
The smoothened version is unnaturally smooth, and feels like something you'd see in a nightmare.
both are very intimidating auras.
edit: why the fuck are you fighting about this in the replies? what do you hope to gain? a brief sense of self-satisfaction?
True
Nah. Look at real robots moving. They don't look stop-animated lol. Stop motion animation is really one of those effects that were always tolerated because it was the only option in a lot of cases but stop motion never looked particularly real. Even when using robots like this.
@@Juel92 Finally someone who isn't nostalgic
I've seen plenty of jerky robots. Especially the older ones. You are just not looking.
@@greenman5229 No I 100% am. Stop this. Robots might move in bursts but they don't skip throughout space like stop motion does. Also even when they move janky it's still smooth motions, it's not like they move with gears.
Love it.
But the unnatural look of stop-motion actually made them scarier.
Terminator 1 had the same effect. Stop motion is creepy
The older stop-motion, makes them seem more "Mechanical" and gives off that machine menace mystique.
For some people it may, but for me its the other way around. The problem here is that people are just too nostalgic and will never admit that some changes are for the better.
ED 209 is like Jurassic Park's T-Rex to me. I love the character, the look, and kindof root for it whenever I see it.
You know what would be simple yet interesting to do is to simply add frames to the animation to match the film - so 24 FPS instead of what I’m guessing is 12 FPS stop motion. Only thing missing would be the motion blur, but I think there was a little already from Go Motion.
This. Exactly. I have no idea why they always try to go for 60 fps, it just does not work for the film most of the time. It would be way more interesting to see the movie play out entirely in its designated fps (which is most of the time 24 fps).
Agreed
If I recall correctly, Tippett himself said (at least for Robocop 2) they did 24 shots for each frame to match it with the film’s FPS, which is why there isn’t much of a difference when smoothing it.
Dude I was about to comment the same thing.
Exactly! Looked like eastenders they way it was overly smooth. Movies are 24fps.
You have to "pair" it with the frame smoothing pace of the rest of the film - otherwise it would look like an amateur stuff _("soap opera" effect)._
And increase _(reduce the value)_ the motion vector precision _(ideally paired with the lowest grid possible, with dynamic decrease further on)_ - otherwise small details will be quite literally washed out _(same way it happened with bullets on __02:07__)._
They "motion flowed" or whatever TV manufacture labeled this so the entire movie was smoothed. The obvious stop motion would dial in the most notice. I personally love it but there are times when artifacts become apparent. Also there are times when it looks too real in that I feel like I'm on set watching the scene being recorded thus less immersion.
The smooth motion reveals to me just how great of an animator Phil Tippett is. For some reason, his choices, knowledge of movement, and ability to create characters through body language are revealed better with the smooth movement.
I thought the opposite. It shows that it wasn't animated well in the first place. There's no weight to the movements.
@@aniquinstark4347 animation has a lot of „cheating“ distancing and timing to accentuate movement. A lot of it can be screwed up by frame interpolation and lack of motion blur.
Is it the same Phil Tippet who had one job supervising dinosaurs in the Jurassic Park movie?
@@IvanVazquezS yes
@@G_de_Coligny Notice that all of the machines you're talking about are bolted to the floor unlike a walking robot
The more frames actually makes some scenes worse, like when Robocain smashes RoboCop against those pipes. It has a slowdown effect and takes a lot of the "whoomp". Also, makes the robots overall move more in a "organic" way which is weird.
The machine bitchslap looks better with stop motion, combined with real recorded sound of impacting metal.
Wow! I always dreamed of making these scenes from classic films smooth.
I really don't know how to feel about this. It looks amazing, but that weird, herky-jerky look really is timeless
The first Robocop holds up because no CGI. Add smoother Stop Motion and it looks even better
*Terminator 2 enters chat*
Try to make jurassic park, the abyss and T-1000 with stop motion then. Also make it better!
Yeah the Robocop 2014 effects were worse
Robocop 1 and 2 has amazing effects
Robocop 2 (the movie and the character) had much clunkier stop motion i feel
Wow you can really see the difference in the last scene shown. And tbh, its still stop motion animation so it doesnt really lose any of the charm and detail. Pretty awesome.
I think the way it’s made: unstable and wobbling around makes it look like it’s interacting with real objects. More smooth looks more like a video game.
That's part of the problem, honestly, as Noodle pointed out a while back. A lot of people got it in their heads that 60 fps is the gold standard for gaming and should be for everything else, even though animation has always used 24 fps as a standard and even at that rate can look incredibly smooth in the right hands and if the animators feel the need to put in the work.
@S. D You took the words right out of my mouth.
Absolutely stellar work, no idea how you did this. Recently I watched the Robocop movies again and while the stop motion is dated, it works for what it’s meant to be. Film-making techniques have come so far that a layman like me can still see that the frames weren’t the problem, but as another has already said, the motion itself. Inertia and momentum are hard to pull off at the scales they were trying to.
I feel like there is a sweet spot between the original and this smoothed version. The original is very jarring but the new one is so smooth I think it goes a little too far which makes it look fake in a different way. Somewhere in between I bet it would look fantastic.
They look like if they were videogame cutscenes, not like a movie -even if they were done with obsolete vfx.
I personally like the jerky movements, i feel it gives it a real mechanical, robotic feel to it. Same with terminator 1 the puppetry gave it such a mechanical feel, its still my fave movie in the series.
sad T-1000 noises
It just works so well. ED209 is the rushed to market product with bugs and errors. RoboCop is more finshed and from a the superior team. They used the clunky animation well.
It's great to see the originals just the way they are. Don't get me wrong, I know this is a project and you did great. It's amazing now and imagine in 100 years when someone can look back at all these movies and see how it's advanced so much.
The amazing Phil Tippett made these shots and really they are beautiful, especially when you see his latest masterpiece Mad God and look back and realize you have been watching this man for decades. He also did the dinosaurs in the original Jurassic Park but CGI effects accompanied his work there to make it all smoother but it's was his input that made them lifelike, none of the Jurassic Park sequels lived up to the original because they were all 100% CGI after that. And there is so much more than this but ultimately it really takes an appreciation for this stuff to understand and enjoy what you are looking at. Some people don't get it.
Totally!! Just watched Mad God recently, it's insane!
It's like transforming your favorite old music from scratchy vinyl into a digitized mp3 file. It's not the same but the effort is appreciated.
Loses the sense of scale the smoother it gets also though.
The original gives it a great creepy vibe! ED-209 terrified me as a kid and still does
no one gonna talk about the music at 1:28 ? sounds like a disney film where there wondering through a wooded area...but in reality a killer robot looking to end you xD
I think that's kinda the point with the Mayor character who was written to be a comic relief, and him escaping was meant to be funny.
i think people are looking at this like its just a "replacement" but i think of this as a tool to really apreciate the stop motion, but not in a "the stop motion looks better" way, but becouse wat this is allowing us to see is the motion WITHOUT the stop motion "filter" as it were. we just see the raw motions portrayed.
so in some shots it doesnt work as good as the choppyness is what gives it a lot of its robotic feel and it starts to feel a bit too light and fluid.
but then there are the shots where it DOES still work, and those are the ones that really impress me, becouse that means that even without the choppyness they still NAILED the motion to give these characters that robotic weight and stiffness.
its a tool to let us apreciate the motion they accomplished without the other factors, and my god does it reveal how well they did some of these shots.
This is awesome! I would totally love to see an enhanced version like this! Feels way more immersive in comparison.
The smoothness somehow removes the weight of the robot. I have no other way to describe the feeling
Yes, you are right. Smoothness motion made them like small toys.
Being a fan of Batletech/ Mechwarrior I always loved the ED-209, closest we'll get to seeing a Madcat on the silver screen. This really smooths out clips of the first movie. The first two scenes from 2 looked nice, that one where Robocop is getting smashed against the columns seems like nothing can help it just doesn't feel right in my opinion. Maybe it's a lack of debris & sound effects in the original
Hello fellow MechWarrior! 👍
Clan ghost bear salutes you
It removes the feeling of mass from what you are seeing. ED209 looks heavy, and big, and menacing. But in the interpolated up-scale'd FPS the mass seems removed. The weight feels wrong.
Its a bit like Pacific Rim 1 vs 2. In 1, the Jeagers feel heavy, and massive and move like a 100ton+ robot should. In 2, all of the little details were forgotten, and they move like puppets that have no mass.
Clan Wolf
I'd like to show you my Warhawk's 6 PPCs (or 8, if allowed). I'MMA FIRINNG MA LAZER always feel great.
Robocop 1 & 2 are among my most favorite films of all time. So many things were done right and the chemistry of the characters were perfect. It’s rare to see this quality of cinema produced nowadays. I prefer the choppy stop motion. Awesome work putting this together, helps me to further appreciate that tech alone is not what makes s great movie.
I mean those jerkies and unsmooth moving really made those robots scary just like the first the time I saw terminator, got a lot of chills on my spine.
In the Cain sewer escape scene... I think they knew it was too scary, so they give the audience a break with the light hearted music. That scene is petrifying.
dude i had to pause and stop watching when cain enters that warehouse, it scared me 25yrs ago and it gives me the creeps to this day. The notion of a huge armed robot hunting you down was semi possible 'one day' back then, even more so now!
It was crazy in the theater we were yelling gtfo there now!!! What a scene
I'm impressed at the technical application here. ED-209 was designed to be over-engineered and have a very 'industrial' quality to it. So it being a little 'herky-jerky' would be expected. With how smoothly it moved here, it actually made it tougher to "believe". It seemed too smooth for something that had sounds and visual queues of a heavy, lumbering, hydraulic assisted machine.
Oddly the more smooth the more it feels like a animation instead of a posing threat
I remember my dad getting a pirated copy of Robocop 2 back in the 90s. As an 11-year old, I watched it on my own and couldn't eat or sleep for months after... Firstly, that brain removal scene of Cain's would make me constantly nauseous at the sight of food... Secondly, RoboCain's virtual face and the sound it makes would terrify me to no end, not to mention that I'd kept thinking he was out to get me. And then thirdly, Robocop being dismantled by Cain's gang. Honestly, this movie scared the living crap outta me as a kid...
i only rewatched the original yesterday because i realized i had basically no memory of the actual plot besides cool cyborg guy, "your move creep", he gets chunked and left in the street, theres some vigilante street gang that takes him in, and he eats baby food. very different than i remember lol and very obvious why i had nightmares. i think i watched the movies for the first time around 5 or 6, and maybe rewatched them once a little later (younger than 10 i'd say). they all blurred together and i don't think i understood a single message in them, but it was terrifying, man. i didnt remember murphy's death scene at all really but rewatching it i was like "oh. thats why i had those nightmares. oops" glad i'm not the only one lol
@@xxmephxx Still is a great movie
@@Termonia yeah its pretty good, i'm really not a gore fan but i still enjoyed it, which i guess is a mark of a good movie :-)
I'm impressed with how good the redos are. But stop - action is so much creepier! I would love to watch the original and then a smoothed version to make sure.
Motion blur would help a lot. There's still a bit of choppiness to the 8x smoother versions.
Man, it's tough. Both look great!
Thank you for the work. My comment is not a "but" as certainly in "Monsters of Man" I loved a lot how the CGI goes well with the story. Since seeing Robocop when kid I always perceived the stop-motion to help the idea that the android and cyborgs are still prototypes, and they seem to interact with the surroundings and the environment.
Like others. Most times, there are reasons why others prefer the janky movements of stop-motion. It gives the subject a feel to it. Such as the ED in which it makes it seem more like a threat and more like a robot.
I love the first reject this smooth becayuse with the original stop motion, he looked like a malfuctioning robot. With the smooth animation, him shooting the scientists absolutely looks deliberate
The stop motion unintentionally taps into a primal part of our brains. The creepiness that many people notice about stop motion, practical effects, and even old silent film footage is a physical reaction similar to when we see spiders move along the wall and rats run by. The missing frames of stop motion subconsciously remind us of the seemingly "missing frames" when seeing a spider move around. The spider moves so quickly that we aren't able to observe it's movement entirely. They are small and fast so it appears difficult to track and unpredictable. Some of the old stop motion has the same effect on us when we see it.
Only way to make this look less like stop motion would be to rotoscope every frame of the bot, place hit over the original footage then apply a blur motion. That’ll blur up the faster moving sequences.
Excellent work my friend. I do personally prefer the otherworldly creepyness of the stop motion jerkiness but the smooth stuff looks incredible in a different way
We need every stop motion remastered like this. Omg. This is magical. And makes it feel real!! 😱
No, the original motion is better.
it helps alot to overcome that old school cheesiness
You censored the first RoboCop 2 clip when that Robot shoots itself in the head. Funniest part of the movie.
Yeaah.. youtube got no sense of humor
It's horrifying in terms of plot though.
1:35 I don't know what it is but it gets me everytime 😂
This just shows how well the effects hold up to today’s standards.
You mean, poorly?
Are you blind?
I’ve noticed that a lot of stop motion doesn’t seem to be strongly improved that much by this interpolation. I think it’s has much more to do with the lack of motion blur, the coloring, and other elements. I’d much rather see motion blur added to the movements.
EDIT: If you want to see what I mean, I think this video captures the perfect version of it: ruclips.net/video/OsgCx4CStoo/видео.html
Top comment; the video you linked to is much better and fits into the film seamlessly.
Very cool! Although, in a way, the cheesy stop motion actually adds to the pseudo horror vibe of the mech. Like it’s not from this world. It doesn’t belong and it’s here to kill you.
Dude, what jumped at my eyes is the weird movement, disregarding gravity and center of mass once the jankiness is removed.
Honestly I like the original more, but this is an interesting idea. The old stop motion felt more weighty and mechanical, but adding frames to it just makes the movements feel floaty, at least from what I see. That’s just my opinion, it’s still some great work
The work you’ve done here is excellent. That clearly took time and effort to put together and make this video.
I do think the original is better because, as another commenter put it, it makes the robots look creepier.
The defect that just walks out and pulls it's helmet off to reveal the screaming skull will always be peak dark comedy 😂😂
I think the "jumpiness" of stop motion effects is what gave the robots their uncanny creepiness.
If humans moved like that in real life, it would be frightening. Which is why I think some horror movies use that for possessed humans that just rush up and attack.
Cant beat old school stop motion . Besides, nostalgia for a great craft. True hand work.
The stop motion adds a creepy unstable look to the motion of the robots especially kain, which is what a robot in motion should look and move like. Kain's motion is what makes him look and feel intimidating
Fantastic! THIS is how they should re-do stopmotion, AND how they can STILL use it today
The motion smoothing that accompanies the video interpolation gives the new scenes that typical soap opera effect, which is kind of jarring. Although it's very nicely done, also feel like the old style gave it a more artificial, i.e. robotic, feeling.
Looks great! In some scenes it makes it feel more real. If this is 60fps, I wonder how it would look in 24fps or would it look jerky again?
I would like to see it in 24fps with motion blur.
The one that DEFINITELY looks much better is Robocain smashing Robocop around. Since Murphy normally moves smooth, it does suit him better. Overall, I think this works very well with Robocain, because he's supposed to be formidable, but ED-209 actually feels much better with the original choppy movements. Try maybe smoothing it out a bit less? Sometimes the robots move smoother than the actual people in the scene.
It just needs a bit of motion blur between animations. As is it looks too much like a toy over imposed.
Never have I witnessed graphics that have set off the "uncanny valley" so reliably for me then your 'Smooth Stop-Motion'. I'm can cope with a lot of bad graphics, but this just... unnerves me. Your video was well done, and interesting. Even if it's cannon with the original stop motion graphics, everything just moves... unnaturally wrong. *thumbs up*
Maybe slow it by 5%? It looks hastened to me.
That’s just the perception to some who are not used to seeing live action at high frame rates.
@@justinseau Regardless, it looks like it moves too fast, and it doesn't look as good because of it.
@@justinseau No it's because the AI treats each frame the same resulting in an unnatural appearance. It doesn't account for acceleration of motion or motion blur.
@@JackWolf10 cheers, that’s a very good point!
Having it be smoother makes it easier for me to tell that they're just small models, its a wierd dissolution, the jerky nature makes it harder to focus on the model so you're less likely to see the details as being plastic
I love it. Terminator and the first Bay Transformers movie broke my eye-tracking. I'd love to see those film fleshed out this way. While watching Terminator my sister slapped me on the back while my eyes were adjusting to the stop animation, and I never recovered. I think I can detect the fourth dimension now. It's hell.
I love that it's stop motion. Watching modern movies just feels like I'm watching a computer game.
The smooth motion looks like a 4k TV before you change settings to make it look good 😂
The smoother animation looks very real and lifelike to me and I’d love to see it used more often in modern films, but the jankier movement is more freakier as everyone has already pointed out!
Smoother works better in Robocop 2, but for me, the original stop motion was a big part of what made ED 209 so scary, cool, unique, it was all part of it. You take that away and he loses something.
Now they just look like action figures I played with as a kid, congrats.
in some cases the original works better. It has a certain charm, a certain uneasy atmosphere that makes it look more terrifying. In other scenes it's a definite improvement, such as with Cain
I think that many of the cyborgs and robots look scarier with the old stop motion effects, but I also think with Cain it's different. Seeing him moving more fluently makes him look scarier in my book, because something that big and bulky should not be capable of moving so fast and fluently.
Choppy motion sends chills. Like the skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts. Freaky
The smoother framerate seems to work against it in this case for "uncanny valley" reasons that would require an overhaul from scratch to truly fix. Plus IMHO with the old stop-motion, the subtle imperfections in the stop-motion just kinda get lost behind the framerate. (Kind of plays into what we've been conditioned to simply ignore and all that)
Answer: It would look like a cheesy soup opera.
What if I told you this could be done and still have the 24p cinematic look?