NOTE: “Those who are good will go to an eternity of bliss in Heaven. Those who are found wanting will be punished forever in a place of anguish and misery-a place called Hell.” Gregory of Nyssa Cir. 360 AD.
@ that’s from a church father who read the Bible carefully. Check out 2 Thessalonians 1:9 “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” Read all of Matthew 25 and if that doesn’t solidify things, Feel free to reach back out.
@IndieThinker interesting. Though the idea of a deity willingly subjecting anyone to infinite punishment for finite crimes, also being considered good in the same sentence, seems off. But i concede, it is indeed mentioned in the Bible.
@@stormkeeper1741 I address this in the video. The much more thoughtful way to view hell is as separation from God as the Bible clearly shows due to the fact that God must be just if He is God. A just God would not give Hitler the same outcome as Mother Teresa.
Ending the video on a misrepresentation of a quote from Nietzsche is quite poetic after starting the video claiming others are guilty of Eisegesis is quite poetic and shows your inherent dishonesty when discussing these subjects
at 26:30 you were paraphrasing this quote: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?" you claimed this quote meant, and by extension what Nietzsche meant, was that someone "needed to take the place of god in order for us to make assessment about anything in this life" It's a statement about the foundations of morality. Nietzsche was remarking that though God has been the answer to the question of 'why is this good/the right thing to do?', this is no longer the case, and we (that is, each individual person) must be their own moral foundation It's a claim about morality, not a claim about theology You somehow claim this quote supports "there is no such thing as Atheism" as if you somehow think that Atheists are equating themselves to supernatural. This is not the case We can reason and come to the conclusion that murder is unjust and immoral (manmade subjective labels) because the person being murdered clearly does not consent to being murdered and we can do this by realizing that if ourself was in the similar situation, we would also likely prefer to not be murdered. We can come to this conclusion without needing to reference a god at all In order to actually have a just world, we ourselves, and also collectively need to "be better" Nietzsche mostly was referring to moral and ethical topics, although i feel the need to point out that the "holy festivals" part of this quote refers to the togetherness and sense of fellowship you may feel when you participate in a group religious activity will need to be replaced by some other form. We can have a Winter Solstice Party (like they did historically) and participate in all of the same activities without needing to do it simply because it's Jesus' suppossed birthday
@@hamfastgamwich I figured you didn’t understand what I was claiming and that you don’t actually understand religion. If religion is anything it is a moral foundation based upon a referent. When you create your own morality guess what you’re doing? The exact same thing with a different starting point. Thus, what I said is 100% correct.
@@IndieThinker You don't know anything about my background, so I have no idea how you'd figure that without being guilty of eisegesis yourself. It is true that maybe I don't understand your claim. Maybe you could clarify? It seems largely incoherent at the moment, but maybe I don't actually understand religion I do not see how you can interpret this particular Nietzsche quote in the way that you did if you were any amount familiar with him. It's a pretty commonly discussed topic, and you'd struggle to find many people siding with your conclusion on it. But maybe you refused to actually look at it because the book was called "The Gay Science" You are also wrong on your claim about religions. they are not "if anything, a moral foundation". Religions can have a moral structure, but they are primarily a truth claim about the basis of that morality. It seems you are the one that does not understand religion(s). Other religions can, and have, come to the same, and also better, moral conclusions than Christianity (Slavery, Women). It's clear that you are the one that does not understand religion and it seems you have a step above tenuous grasp on Christianity As i have demonstrated in the examples in my above comment, we can reach a consensus on an ethical framework without invoking any gods and without a truth claim of there being a god or not. This does not mean that we have to view ourselves as a god, and it does not mean that there are no athiests So what exactly were you 100% correct about other than me not understanding your claim?
I like your point about how if everyone unconditionally goes to heaven no matter what actions you take, then what you do doesn't even matter. Why did Jesus even say that certain things were good and bad if it doesn't matter...? It seems very self-defeating.
@@erwinthijs4468 thank you for this beautiful comment. You probably don’t even realize it, which is pretty typical, but it it shows everything that is wrong with atheism.
NOTE: “Those who are good will go to an eternity of bliss in Heaven. Those who are found wanting will be punished forever in a place of anguish and misery-a place called Hell.”
Gregory of Nyssa Cir. 360 AD.
That's not a bible quote. I've read it cover to cover many times. Hell is never mentioned directly or indirectly near as I can remember.
@ that’s from a church father who read the Bible carefully. Check out 2 Thessalonians 1:9 “They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” Read all of Matthew 25 and if that doesn’t solidify things, Feel free to reach back out.
@IndieThinker interesting. Though the idea of a deity willingly subjecting anyone to infinite punishment for finite crimes, also being considered good in the same sentence, seems off.
But i concede, it is indeed mentioned in the Bible.
@@stormkeeper1741 I address this in the video. The much more thoughtful way to view hell is as separation from God as the Bible clearly shows due to the fact that God must be just if He is God. A just God would not give Hitler the same outcome as Mother Teresa.
Ending the video on a misrepresentation of a quote from Nietzsche is quite poetic after starting the video claiming others are guilty of Eisegesis is quite poetic and shows your inherent dishonesty when discussing these subjects
Please, do tell how it’s misrepresented.
at 26:30 you were paraphrasing this quote:
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"
you claimed this quote meant, and by extension what Nietzsche meant, was that someone "needed to take the place of god in order for us to make assessment about anything in this life"
It's a statement about the foundations of morality. Nietzsche was remarking that though God has been the answer to the question of 'why is this good/the right thing to do?', this is no longer the case, and we (that is, each individual person) must be their own moral foundation
It's a claim about morality, not a claim about theology
You somehow claim this quote supports "there is no such thing as Atheism" as if you somehow think that Atheists are equating themselves to supernatural. This is not the case
We can reason and come to the conclusion that murder is unjust and immoral (manmade subjective labels) because the person being murdered clearly does not consent to being murdered and we can do this by realizing that if ourself was in the similar situation, we would also likely prefer to not be murdered. We can come to this conclusion without needing to reference a god at all
In order to actually have a just world, we ourselves, and also collectively need to "be better"
Nietzsche mostly was referring to moral and ethical topics, although i feel the need to point out that the "holy festivals" part of this quote refers to the togetherness and sense of fellowship you may feel when you participate in a group religious activity will need to be replaced by some other form. We can have a Winter Solstice Party (like they did historically) and participate in all of the same activities without needing to do it simply because it's Jesus' suppossed birthday
@@hamfastgamwich I figured you didn’t understand what I was claiming and that you don’t actually understand religion. If religion is anything it is a moral foundation based upon a referent. When you create your own morality guess what you’re doing? The exact same thing with a different starting point. Thus, what I said is 100% correct.
@@IndieThinker You don't know anything about my background, so I have no idea how you'd figure that without being guilty of eisegesis yourself. It is true that maybe I don't understand your claim. Maybe you could clarify? It seems largely incoherent at the moment, but maybe I don't actually understand religion
I do not see how you can interpret this particular Nietzsche quote in the way that you did if you were any amount familiar with him. It's a pretty commonly discussed topic, and you'd struggle to find many people siding with your conclusion on it. But maybe you refused to actually look at it because the book was called "The Gay Science"
You are also wrong on your claim about religions. they are not "if anything, a moral foundation". Religions can have a moral structure, but they are primarily a truth claim about the basis of that morality. It seems you are the one that does not understand religion(s). Other religions can, and have, come to the same, and also better, moral conclusions than Christianity (Slavery, Women). It's clear that you are the one that does not understand religion and it seems you have a step above tenuous grasp on Christianity
As i have demonstrated in the examples in my above comment, we can reach a consensus on an ethical framework without invoking any gods and without a truth claim of there being a god or not. This does not mean that we have to view ourselves as a god, and it does not mean that there are no athiests
So what exactly were you 100% correct about other than me not understanding your claim?
the word hell comes from norse
Having to cherrypick clips from this "debate" to make your point is pretty telling of your character as well as the weakness of your position
By all means go watch the full debate if you need to satisfy your deeply inquisitive mind.
I like your point about how if everyone unconditionally goes to heaven no matter what actions you take, then what you do doesn't even matter. Why did Jesus even say that certain things were good and bad if it doesn't matter...? It seems very self-defeating.
Thank you for watching.
Talking about religion... with the word Thinker in his name... 🤣🤣🤣
@@erwinthijs4468 thank you for this beautiful comment. You probably don’t even realize it, which is pretty typical, but it it shows everything that is wrong with atheism.