Jäger Nerf: Right Change For All The Wrong Reasons! - Rainbow Six Siege
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- The new balancing patch for Y6S1 of Rainbow Six Siege (Operation Crimson Heist) is now live and with that comes another nerf to one of the community's favourite operators: Jäger! With this patch, the devs are once again taking aim at his primary weapon, the 416-C Carbine and while the change might be just the right thing in order to lower his pick rate, I believe that this change was made for all the wrong reasons. Let me show you what I mean!
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It is a shame that the devs will never see this
They will see the video in their recommended and actively avoid clicking it because they're scared of geniuine criticism that they can't just brush off
@@eternityD9 damn that’s painfully true ouch
they will watch it, just not do anything as per
People like to give Behavior Interactive shit but at least they take ideas and such and try to listen, unlike Ubisoft
@@bornslippy7232 BHVR gets shit because their game is riddled with more bugs than my open-door tent last camping trip. Not because they listen.
Future Jager Nerf:
HK416C (416-C Carbine)
-Magazine size reduced to 10+1
-Horizontal Recoil increased by 20%
-Vertical Recoil increased by 50%
HK USP (P12)
-Decreased fire rate by 40%
-Increased hipfire spread by 10%
-Decreased mag size to 2+1
A.D.S. Unit
-Removed 2 of his units
-Set it on a recharge (120s for 1 new unit)
-Reduced range of unit to 2m
-Light emitting from the unit increased by 500%
Population targeted by this change: Top Ranked, Pro, Casual
Jager is an overpowered favorite, and we can understand why! We hate Jager and the utility he brings to team compositions, his 10% pick rate presence is too high to ignore. This is something we’ve spent a fuck all amount of time working through how to address it. Understanding it will affect so many players and we want to destroy the identity of such a beloved operator while encouraging people to just pick Wamai.
Our last change addressed his utility, and while this was a change in the right direction, the data shows that his presence is still too high when compared to everyone else. Our next step is to continue nerfing Jager by reducing the effectiveness of his guns and his gadget. We believe this will require a greater degree of finesse from players to make the most of his new kit.
At the end of the day though, we know that Jager’s denial utility is still too powerful and we’re hoping to completely remove him in a future update. Balancing is an iterative process that we spend 5 seconds thinking about every week, so we will be closely monitoring how this affects our favorite punching bag and will continue to deliver nerfs to him when even the smallest of issues pop up.
Don't forget about the Blackbeard nerf. His rifle shields now have 1HP per shield and he is now a 0 armour and 1 speed. We have plans to completely remove his rifle shields, and we will keep you updated in future dev blogs.
@@genericnpc5669 i mean bb was a low risk high reward op, it rewarded players that were not good at the game and needed multiple second chances
Gold
Idk man sounds like a jager main to me
This is amazing , made my day man
I don’t even play r6 anymore but im here to support ma boy rogue 9
Same here this game is just dying with all the nerfs but I still like rogue 9 vids
same bro
saaaaame
He needs to make content for other games. Would watch.
Same lmao
Wamai's like "oh, shiet" rn. Goodbye AUG A2, it was nice using you against Attackers...
I really hope they don't remove the AUG from him, I just got AUG black ice and I want to actually use it in game because I use IQ's other guns
@@xcmledder3420 yeah true
@@xcmledder3420 well the MP5K is better anyway since you get the 1.5x on it :D
@@xcmledder3420 who'd ya think the Jager mains'll switch to if this proves too bothersome (or if Jagger gets chonkier into 3 armor lol)
@@xcmledder3420 yup I would switch to Wamai since he also has projectile capturing gadget and his load out is good
Seige devs don't seem to understand that overpicked ≠ overpowered.
Thank you for this
Then how do you propose to fix Jäger's pickrate?
But overpicked also doesn’t mean they’re void of changes and can also mean they’re too strong. Both cases occur in all games. Jäger is this version
When have they ever understood anything when it came to balancing
@@lazygravy_brook that's the issue I have with nerfs cause of pick rate. He's just Better than other operators but not over powered in anyway. Ubisoft wants people to play more operators but that will never be the case when you have over 50 to choose from. Most people will just choose the best ones. Same with mobas and fighting games.
Glad you're still creating content; never stop doing what you love, even in the face of adversity.
the chad Rogue-9
the virgin EDP445.
same ideology
shameful execution.
Not saying this is 100% but I think hes just doing it for the money the video is exactly 10 minutes
But not saying 100%
Got to eat somehow
He procc
He attacc
But most importantly, the devs wants him to be wacc
What does wacc stand for?
@@zhongxina2614 Wack
what does procc mean
I will steal this
@@mirakhalifa8704 it was a misspelling of protecc
we missed you dawg
-Any op operator
=ubi takes nades
=ubi removes acog
=ubi adds recoil
not even op ops that are picked often
Always a good day when professional stats analyser uploads. I hope you are still doing well.
I'm good thanks! Hope you're doing well too 😊
@@Rogue9 I am actually doing great rn thanks.
@@Rogue9 Hey it’s the Barcelona guy
@@Rogue9 keep up the amazing work Love you man
You can't just go out in public and murder someone like that bro they worked long and hard misunderstanding their own game systems
I dismiss the entire premise that we have to bring jaegers pick rate down. Who gives a flying fuck that he has above a 90% pick rate? Why does it matter? What matters is is the operator OP, and does he win more than he should? The answer is no. His win rate is not impressive in the slightest.
An operator with a high pick rate is fun to play. I don’t understand why we have to nerf fun.
There was no reason for someone like Jager to have one of the best defender weapons with no outlier or extreme downsides, one of the best gadgets on defense, as well as being one of the most easiest ops to play on defense.
Also I'm guessing the reason his win rate ain't high is because of well how many people pick him, Rook has one of the highest win rates on defense according to the most recent win delta, but that doesn't mean he's like top 5 or even top 10 best defenders. Also please try to understand that the Jager nerfs were better for the game as it fixes the overall meta.
@@kryo4491 please understand that balancing a game doesn’t make it more fun for everyone playing it. And even if it was for balance, why do we need to bring Jagers pick rate down if his win delta is negative?
All the info means is jaeger is picked a bunch but is losing more than he winning. Meaning even though people loved to play him, he wasn’t OP.
@@aviatinggamer9051 Nerfing Jager made it more easier and more fun for the attacking team, he has a lower win rate because of how much he is picked, there are good and bad Jagers. When defense loses, it affects Jager's pick rate, since his pickrate is so high, he loses half by default, his insane pickrate means that he can't really have a win rate that high above 50%, it's statistically impossible, but that doesn't mean he's one of the worst defenders because if your judging by win rate, why would people want to use Jager when their playing seriously in ranked? You can't tell me that rook is the best defender because of his win rate. And like I said before, Jager had one of the best guns on defense, one of the most easiest gun to use on defense, gun had no extreme downsides, one of the best gadget on defense, relatively easy to use gadget, and a good speed rating. Lion when he was OP had a pre nerf V308 with 850 fire rate which was one of the best guns on attack, and one of the best gadget on attack at the time, but his gadget wasn't easy to use, yet people called Lion OP?
@@kryo4491 Rook probably is one of the better defenders honestly. MPS with 2.0x and simple, easy to use gadget that probably affects more rounds than Doc.
I didn’t say Jaeger was bad and I didn’t say that his win rate was a reason for Jaeger being bad. I’m not sure how you got that from what I said. So I’ll repeat it, Jaegers pick and win rate indicate he was not OP (just because an operator isn’t OP doesn’t mean they’re bad….) but rather that he was fun to play and has a useful gadget and/or good gun. I still maintain I see no reason to nerf an operator with a negative win rate. It makes zero sense. The fact that he is picked so many times means the sample size is huge, and therefore accurate, meaning jaeger loses more than he wins. So why nerf him? Makes no sense.
Unless you just like making this game less fun. Than it makes perfect sense. Soon none of our operators will be fun to play! Yay!
6:12 *cries in Lt_Custard*
I didn't watch the video yet but the title makes my expect my daily dose of dry humour and sarcasm and I love that.
Jager Nerf, October 29, 2021:
- Removed Jager from the game
i think ubisoft is just like a Thanos:
Solve a problem with "Killing half of the population"
I love the effort Rouge-9 puts on his content. Not only from R6 but he has knowledge about weapons in real life. Man of culture must admit +rep
Twitch mains realising their destruction was rogue's idea all along: "WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED!"
Being a twitch main I still think the gun is OP. Just cant ace easily in one mag tho
@@TheHoax24 yeah especially the no ACOG idea kinda helps with the recoil. Not a big fan of 1.5x but it kinda works well on Twitch, The DMR though is another layer of hell... (Coming from a Thermite/support main)
@@silentshabah Right now DMRs with other magnified optics are really nice
@@Chasodey IKR
@@TheHoax24 As a fellow twitch main, I second that. The F2 is still a beast.
The thing that baffles me is why they removed Wamais shield, like they wanted an option besides Hager that would be better for anchoring, but now there is really no reason to take him over Jager
Agree, it`s so damn stupid in my opinion
straight up false, wamai magnets can be placed in much better places compared to jäger ads'es and the versatility it offers compansate the underpower in therms of fragging potencial. In pro level the addiction to wamai create the worst meta ever existed and he was banned around 30% of the games. If you want to play wamai as intended you should have a composition created around it, when he had a shield he could easly get the job done by him self. Things said i can firmly tell that wamai in this state still has sites where he IS better than jäger but he s best usage is still to be pared up with jäger to waste time and making the ads reactivate.
Wamai is literally a better jaeger, a better rifle, you can hide the magnets, he has impacts, and when he had a shield he was literally unbalanced and too powerful.
I don’t even play anymore but it’s like damn ubi wtf is going on man
You don’t wanna know
same here, the changes being made over the past 2-4 seasons has just constantly made the game boring for me. im glad i stopped playing tbh, it got to the point where i felt happier closing the game than playing it, im enjoying valorant more now personally
based on the stuff they change and add the devs don't either.
They need to acknowledge that grenade stopping is an essential role and give him relevant competition instead of kinda worse alternatives that end up being a support to him instead.
wamai doesn’t remove utility he moves it and stops it , while jäger destroys it , it isn’t hard to understand -r6 player base
I LOVE this man's voice
Why can't they accept that some operators are just more popular than others...
Ubisoft: (swaps mp5/t5 for orxy/melusi)
Smurt people: swap and change more ops guns instead of nerfing loads of guns
Ubisoft: no
Jager: gets nerf spree
Blackbeard: first time?
6:00 think about it like this: Jäger is picked over 90% of the time in plat and above, meaning that most of the times where he is not picked, it is a well thought out strat that is supposed to defend the site in an out-of-meta way. Also, the attackers will probably pick a lineup to counter Jäger so the strat would throw them off. This makes a lineup without Jäger have a good chance of winning, better than with him, making his win rate rather low
RIP our favorite German boi
Don't worry m8 his pick rate probably won't change cuz he is just to important for the current meta
dont worry, the 90% pick rate will remain- jäger main
they accidentally buffed his gadget rather than nerfing it. In gold/plats, 10 sec is actually useful for the defenders lmao. They again buffed him accidentally again by making him 2 speed/2 armour lol. Needs more bullet to die
@@JayOjha2016 right? That only affected pro play imo, in ranked they throw a grenade to get out of position, drone to see if im there, by then my ads is recharged lol
@@r1pperduck lesion makes it easier for the team lol. They throw a nade, get poisoned, they pull out gu, take position, cook nade and by that time the ads is recharged 😂😂. Happened to me few days back in Ranked 😂✌🏻
The devs care soooo much about pickrate, look at ash and zofia
if thats the case they should nerf hardbreachers and give everyone a hard breach charge
I just hate the unrealistic and futuristic gadgets there are in siege
plot twist: Ubisoft nerfing Jäger to the ground so people will buy dlc ops that does the same job as Jäger
So like, Wamai?
Did they forget what happened when they nerfed Ela’s scorpion right? No because Jäger also has a quite strong shotgun…
Can't wait for Ubi to see that blow up in their face, once the time comes. The devs are so clueless, it's embarassing.
@@TheCrystalBlood you fix Jäger's pickrate problem then. We'll see how well you do.
@@lazygravy_brook take away one of his ads devices, nerf his shotgun a little bit, so it doesn't become a huge problem down the line and if that isn't enough, give him castle's ump and he can take Jäger's carbine. There, done. Now he's a situational operator, you don't have to bring all the time.
And if it turns out, that his ability to deny projectiles is still too valuable to fix his pick rate, you could introduce a secondary gadget that works as a sort of "Mini ads" that you could give to specific ops, who could use a little boost in their Performance (like Warden for example).
Btw, being a Ubisoft bootlicker is a disservice to yourself.
@@TheCrystalBlood lol, no one uses his shotgun cuz his rifle is just better (tho i do cuz i love it) i dknt think the shotty needs a nerf
@@TheCrystalBlood also, im not a ubi bootlicker, there are a lotta things i hate, like how they've had 5 years to fix hitreg that's been bad since day 1, or the sound bugs, and the fact that Nøkk is still underpowered after almost 2 years now
It's like you've got your own community now, apart from the rest of the siege community. We will always be here for you Rogue
I haven't been watching too much rainbow six RUclips recently, but made sure to tune in to yours!!
9:00 yeah because Elas recoil is like playing the lottery, it’s literally all random if you hit after the first shot
Her gun is almost unusable on console, it’s crazy
@@EggEnjoyer and they still nerf her every season
Yeah imagine jäger running around with a 150 drum mag on his gun ^^
I still miss the faster ADS times we had during ember rise.
Love your vids rogue, I really like seeing how you got the results at the end.
In the Marine Corps we're trained to not fully load the mags. First Round jams and wears out the spring. But only like 28-29 rounds.
Which gun is better for Jackal now? The his C7E or the PDW?
Good question! Worth looking at
I love the PDW. The dev's need to add it to another op
3:14 Two points:
1) Brownells makes 25-round mags for ARs; they're actually a retro reproduction of the mags used by the original AR-15 prototype (not the AR-10, the 15). I actually own a few myself.
2) Some people will intentionally under-load magazines if they feel that it prevents feeding issues; therefore, it's not 100% unrealistic.
I wanna see Jäger swap his weapon with Warden
him having the mpx would make no sense
i think id actually like that
Bandits MP7 is another gun with the wrong ammo-count. He has 30 rounds but the gun model is using a 40 rounder.
Really missed ur vids man. It's nice to see you back.
The bigger issue is that wamai is just inferior by design due to having to wait so long to get his magnets. If they fixed the Augs weap9n model and made all 4 discs avilable at start, he would see more play.
Even though i dont actively play Siege anymore, i still love to watch your videos Rogue! Keep it up mate
6:48 because a lot of Jäger players only go for kills (and may get a few) but kills don't necessarily mean winning rounds. Especially at higher ranks.
yes, didn't Bikini talk about seing Jägers roaming around with their gadgets still in their pockets? Especially, maybe the other ops aren't as good perfomers as they seem but they're picked so little that every match has a much bigger impact on their performance
Talking about realism we have Iana gadget and a guy who can basically run through walls
don't forget smoke who literally gases his friends!
These are fictional characters, so their anti realism is understandable. But the gun have real world counterparts
He cant run through solid walls, only drywall or wood smh
@@fred8691 Exactly. The game doesn't have to be realistic, but if the guns arent fictional, I would want them to resemble the original in form factor and magsize.
And a guy who can see invisible footprints and scan them to find the position of someone across the map, or someone who can use very much real science and stuff to be invisible to cameras in real time
About time for Castle-Jäger primary change Less gooo
They said they won’t get rid of his 417
It’s eternal
That could actually be a good idea
Castle yes plz
Give castle the pdw without the drum mag or the mp7
Varsity Gaming said the best idea to Nerf Jeager is to swap 416C with The UMP45 from Castle
pog
that's a dumbass idea imo and is a reason why I don't watch him anymore
Dumb idea especially when you consider pro league and higher ranks
@@mrinaljena3 ops should have a good gun or a good gadget not both
@@Tony_zr salty jager main?
I love how fast you decided to make the recoil section, but please don't make your reasoning for doing so based on the assumption that we've already seen the comparison elsewhere!
I assume I'm not alone in this, but you and CR are the only R6 RUclipsrs I watch, with your videos always first on the docket to watch when they come out!
Keep up the astounding work you mad lad.
Exactly my thoughts regarding the reasons part, couldn't phrased better! This change not only would not address the pick rate problem but also ruined a perfectly fine aspect of Jager, Ubi really messed up this time.
He needs a different gun. It's too powerful to have on someone who's utility is already really good. I like varsity idea of giving castle the 416c and jager the ump. Because an operator should have a good gun or a good gadget not both
Yea he will keep going down in terms of performance with these changes, but the pick rate will stay the same because he’s a must pick on defense
Tbh give warden/castle jager's gun and give jager something like a mpx, and make him a 3 speed again
I have a theory about jagers winrate. I dont think the devs data is wrong, just being misinterpreted. I believe that this is a case of correlation seeming like causation, so it appears that if a team chooses jeager they are more likely to lose, but instead its probably like this:
random/uncoordinated teams are going to pick jaeger as a default safe pick if theyre not sure what to take (which is also kind of self fulfilling prophecy, devs say jaegee pick rate is high > players who arent sure what to take will pick jaeger because other people do) and teams like this will pick jaeger almost 100% of the time, on the other more coordinated teams might have more sophisticated strategies that dont call for jaeger being picked, since more coordinated teams are obviously more likely to win its not a case od jaeger lowering a teams chance of winning, but instead teams who had better odds from the start picking jaeger less.
his pick rate is going to stay the same because his gadget is just too good
Great video as always. Glad to see you're still around. I hope youtube doesn't clap you for showing IRL guns in a video since they tend to not like that :(
WE LOVE YOU ROGUE!!!!
Welcome back my guy (:
As a side note, Jager and Ela are completely different operators who are picked for very different reasons. Ela's mines are great for winning gunfights and alerting defenders of enemy presence, but that's a huge gamble of whether or not the enemy will even push in that direction or engage in a gunfight with the mine going off. Meanwhile, Jager ADS's have insane guaranteed set-and-forget value, forcing the opponent to burn flashbangs quickly for other utilities to take place and preventing attackers from bringing other secondary gadgets. Nerfing Ela's gun means a high-risk high-kill roamer can no longer perform her role as well, while Jager can still put down his gadgets and get value as a projectile denial operator whether or not he has the 416 or the UMP45.
It just means he'll maybe roam a little less, maybe Vigil's pick rate will go up for those dedicated roamers, but we're all still going to bring a Jager one way or another to prevent frag grenades and Zofia charges from smoking the defenders out.
Time to run the M870 just to spite the devs
Well the reason why his win percentage is so low is because he is picked in every game, so every time you loses he’s being played, and every time you win he’s being used. You have to take the win rates of operaters that are drastically over picked and under picked with a grain of salt.
Shhh they must buff him lol
As I’ve said before, many times, it’s not that he’s good, it’s because he’s cool. No matter how many nerfs you give him people will play him because he’s COOL!
I got him because I played GFL and uhhh 416 hehehe
Regarding your graph of weapon types, if I recall correctly (could have been changed, I haven't checked recently) Mozzie also has a weapon in the AR class, this may be a change you'd like to make to you charts... Glad to see you back Rogue
A new Rogue-9 video a surprise and a welcome one at that
I personally don’t have a problem with his gun since it’s not the problem. It’s his utility. He should lose an ads, and they need to buff wamai and aruni. Aruni’s gates should get a cool down reduction to 25s and when they nerfed wamai by removing a disc just made jager a better pick. Wamai needs his five discs, and give him all at the start.
buffing wamai/aruni is not the fix, and removing an ADS isnt the fix either. Jager is picked because attackers have to much throwable gadgets/consumables that they can bring to a round. quick example is Nomad with flash (both are denied by ADS to a total of 6 throwables) Ying and smoke (both denied by ADS to a total of 5 throwables) see the picture. attackers in general shouldnt have this level of utility. they either need to say "operators" with throwable gagdets cannot have throwable consumables (or they have half the numbers) at the end of the day its not balanced that depending on the operator selection you can have 10 smoke (or I think 8 nades right now) or 15 flash, while all excluding gadgets that these operators bring.
That is why Jager is picked 95% of the time, its deny this level of utility from attackers that Ubi has let get out of control with each new operator always launching with "smoke/nades/flash" before launching with claymores/breacharge
They do this with every op, they simply don't understand how their own game works.
They do though.
Lol, lots of people said that the 416 nerf wouldn't do anything, but it lowered Jager's pickrate by a drastic amount compared to all his other nerfs.
If I remember correctly the SMG-11 is also modeled with a 32 round mag, but holds only 16 rounds in game. And that mistake has been there for years. So I don't think devs care about little details unfortunately.
Just to meme on the devs, we should make sure jaeger's pick rate still at 90%
Who else would want PA lutys submachine gun in the game on a new op? Be cool to see it used for the backstory of an operator who was deep under cover who need to make gun for himself.
I love you Rouge keep it popin
0:05 I mean the real reason for the increased recoil is just the missing KixStar charm
But it didn’t fix Ela. Her EVO has an engagement distance equivalent to her shotgun, and the reason the shotgun got nerfed is because the people who play Ela swapped to it over the EVO because it’s more reliable at the same ranges the EVO is reliable. The thought that swapping to your pistol, over use the EVO for medium range engagements bothers me. The EVO is the only primary weapon in the game that you genuinely have to fight more than the attacking team and it bothers me. especially given the controllability of the weapon in real life.
i can imagine the devs will say in the line of
"hey, at least we nerf it right so our method and reasoning to balance is also right"
Jager has a high pickrate because his gadget is a necessity in most setups. Jager is a super safe pick and thus is picked a lot. It wouldn't surprise me if his pickrate stayed the same, but his win percentage continued to drop
I could careless about jaegar Im sticking with ela shotty because I get free picks with her and the f2 is insanely good still that gun can counter a lot of guns in defense
@@rominnoodles 🤷♂️fair enough
y
e r6 is dead for me now.
it has been dead since along time.
The devs really just nerfing every single aspect about jager when they should really just change his gun entirely. Swap the 416 with castle's ump (or just give him one). or maybe give him the mpx (valk's gun). They did it for oryx and melusi, so clearly they can make these changes idk why it hasn't been done before.
They really should change the game entirely but I dont think people are ready for that
1 second ago
RUclips: 3 comments
Counting the comments: I'm 7th. In one. Second. One.
In regards to him having the highest pickrate but the lowest windelta, maybe it's that Jaeger is such a comfort pick for so many players, that you'll see him in almost every single match, and people don't normally swap out of it even if they're losing; + in the hands of bad players too.
He's almost like the Ash of defense, and if you check the win% chart for the Attacking Operators, you'll see she's in the same situation.
I think all the siege youtubers creaming their pants going “nerf his gadget not his gun” are stupid. His gadget is skill less yes, and revolves around the meta. However, a large majority of players still only play jager for his “skill less” gun. They nerfed his gadget already, its about time his gun got some damn recoil
Honestly people play ash/Jager because they want to pick a braindead operator where they can just run around and get frags. Same with twitch and ela before the nerfs.
You’ll never hear them admit it though because “his utility is so absolutely necessary you’ll lose without it” even though most jager mains put their shit it the most stupid spots anyways
In the dev notes regarding this, they do not say that the ar performance data comes from the same set of data as they are using for the graph.
Secondly, if Jaeger is indeed being picked that much at that level, it stands to reason that his performance would be average or possibly below average due to the large amount of games he is appearing in, because teams will lose no matter what. This is further backed up by anecdotal evidence of players in this tier saying that they don't even use his gadget, they just use him for the gun he has. Losing 20% of your team's potential utility is a major blow to your likelihood of winning.
This means due to his prevalence it would be very hard to get accurate data on how he is actually performing. This nerf is clearly designed to reduce the amount he is seen in ranked games at this level so that they can appropriately balance him for the future. If they were being smart about it, they would have nerfed him completely into the ground to reduce his pick rate as much as possible, and then slowly buffed him to the appropriate level.
to effectively lower Jager's pickrate Ubi has to either introduce more anti projectile options (without bulletproof utility) or lean into gadget nerfs (ie: reduce to 2 with 2-3 set charges instead of over time or keep over time mechanics). To reduce his pickrate goes into changing the current meta of bulletproof utility and anti projectile gadgets to burn and stall attackers.
Damn, Ubisoft really needs to hire new people for the Data Analysis...
Lorewise it would be something like "Since Jäger decided to start wearing more armor thus reducing his speed, he personally felt quite chunky and not really comfortable with his movility, so he decided to start putting only 25 bullets in his mags before de mission instead of 30, so that he could lose a few pounds."
The data seems off because there's too much mud in the water. With an astonishing pick rate of over 95% you're going to have amazing players and complete trash players both in very large numbers using Jager. Which in turn drags his overall winrate down. He's got some of the easiest utility to use in the game, which also happens to be one of the most necessary utilities in the game. So the stats around Jager do seem wacky, but you have to take into account the sheer number of people using him, and the intensely varied skill of that group.
25 round 5.56 magazines exists. They are just less common as 30 is what is normally used.
considering how they replaced the loadouts of some characters and removed others, at this point they’ll replace jagers 416 with the ump or mp5 and give the rifle to castle or pulse, after nerfing the weapon to semi-auto and 5-round stripper clips of course
So in your excel chart Jäger´s 416-C is viewed as an Assault Rifle as thats what his description says, but then Mozzie´s Commando 9 wich is also an assault rifle is listed as an smg. I just wondered if there was a specific reason why that is, and if so would you mind telling me because im really curious about it.
The Commando is classified as an SMG because it is chambered in 9mm, a pistol round. Caliber is usually the most important factor for determining weapon class
We've had incorrect mag size for Ela for quite a long time already, lol. That rule flew out of the window years ago, unfortunately.
I think the issue you pointed out about players adjusting is 100% accurate. Look at Ash. When she lost her ACOG, a LOT of people moaned and complained about the R4-C, but look at her now. And the most picked gun? The R4-C. Players adapt as long as the gun is still good. Unless the damage on this thing gets reduced again, it's going to still dominate. The only weird part is the -5 bullets.
Will Ubisoft ever learn that one of the most crucial reasons for Jaegar's pick rate being so high, IS THAT HE IS LITERALLY ONE OF THE ONLY OPERATORS THAT CAN HARD COUNTER THE MAJORITY OF ATTACKERS GADGETS.
Ash Breaches, Zofia 'Nades, Ying Candelas, Thatcher EMPs, Kali Lance's, All Secondary Grenades. Just to name a few.
His utility is just straight up undeniable and unspecialised. There's no gimmick to his projectile denying potential and that's good. But his value spikes higher and higher the more attackers that he essentially "Has" to deal with.
Furthermore, he's a base game Op. He's familiar. And for a very long time, there was no alternative. Same issue occured with Mute and Bandit being the only available Reinforced Wall protection available prior to the introduction of Kaid.
Siege has been in spots (which I believe we are in again now) were we have so many operators that all can do an unspecialised thing (Soft Breach) and then we get I to there unique specialisations (Hard Breach). Now all ops have access to a counter play of an unspecialised action (Reinforcements > Soft Breach). But there's a massive imbalance to these Specialised Counter plays. At current, there are 4 dedicated Ops to Hard Breaching, and 9 Ops with access to the Secondary Hard Breach. There are only 3 Defending Ops that completely nullify wall placed breaches. And no Secondary jamming gadget to protect reinforced walls.
Is this an issue? Not sure, but it is a very obvious imbalance.
For me on console, I use the vertical grip with muzzle brake combo. I try to limit my engagements to only firing one round at a time, but full auto when necessary.
Thanks for the in depth analysis rogue! I'd love to see more frequent uploads from your, since your take on balance changes are always backed up with hard facts and data :3
I'm excited for the next video!
The single most effective way that they could nerf Jager would actually be indirect; lowering the number of grenades the attackers has would simultaneously make his gadget less of a necessity and potentially fix a couple problem attackers. The problem is that you kinda need grenades for some maps, though
Their data on AR aren't wrong, no matter what gamemod you play beside ranked, there is always low level Ash/Jager main on other team who trashes you somehow.
But wouldn't that also mean that on average, a team with a Jäger will be better off than a team without Jäger? If he is outperforming in terms of fragging, you would expect his win delta to be quite good as well, no?
@@Rogue9 yh I would expect to see same also, win delta doesnt match the AR nerf (we saw the opposite with ela if I recall, she had a high win delta but not so high pickrate like this)
@@Rogue9 I mean, yeah, I am just ranting about smurfs I guess. Unless they watch data for guns from all game, while win delta is only top ranks.
Also worth noting that twitch and ela were and still are almost exclusively brought for their gun, whereas jager is brought for his utility since it is an almost universal counter to attacker utility. Therefore the same logic cannot be applied when nerfing jaeger as was applied to twitch and ela. An idea for the right way would just only allow it to catch flashes, smokes and nades, and let everything else, from yings to ace charges, through.
The only problem I have with the lighter gun more recoil is that the 416 and 416-c are extremely front heavy
I feel like there needs to be a fundamental core change to reduce yager's pick rate. Perhaps a new defender gadget that allows defenders to remove 1 grenade from play.
The reason yager is picked is because if you look at the average team comp in ranked and pro play --> Nomad, Thermite/Ace/Hibana, Maverick, Ash, Zofia/Capitou and all of these operators have some kind of utility that can be used to break defender's beloved gadgets. Yager is the best gadget defender you can have.
jaeger is also used for his gadget as it a crucial one to have on defense compared ab ela grizmot or a twitch drone on attack which is why his pick rate won’t go down that much. i do like the changes they made to the gun as it made me play him less but i’m a silver and have trouble controlling recoil so
any pro or higher ranked player won’t have any trouble with it
One problem I have with ubi is that they want ALL of their operators at the perfect 0% win 20% pick mark.
This is a terrible idea as it does not allow operators to have their ideas behind them flourish or be played with in any fun way. Where operators should stand should be an exponential equation where: standard operators are in the middle. overpicked basic operators should be, well, overpicked but winning less. And harder to use or situational operators should be underpicked, but winning more (making them more rewarding).
What ubi is trying to do is fit everyone in this little box, that with how they designed and what mechanics they have, won't work. It just makes every operator feel the same and removes the enjoyment out of the game.
With Jager, they are Not letting him be that common but under performing pick. They are keeping him below, but also trying to shove him back.
There is nothing wrong with a common pick, there is only something wrong if they are too powerful.
I agree that it's dumb that they nerfed the mag cap to 25, but at the same time the AK-74 (which is actually just a normal AKM with magpul furniture, wrongly stamped "WASR-10" and with a 5.45x39 magazine).
There have been other magazine capacity nerfs in the past that are not real world accurate. Capitao's PRB92 had its mag dropped from 15 to 12 to nerf Caviera. The criticisms are still valid, but mag changes are not new, just rare. I also noticed that he has the Commando 9 as an sub machine gun in his spreadsheet, while in game it is classified as an assault rifle.
The chart is a correlation. A possible cause of a negative win delta could be that the sites where jager is less likely to be picked are overall better sites than the ones that jager is more likely to be picked, maybe jager is overpicked and better players are smarter so they pick him less than worse players that don't put that much thought and only know that jager is good.
Also worth considering that jager's presence is so high that it warps the meta around him. Comparing clash with jager's winrate is not apples to apples if you want to compare the performance of both cause the enemy team will prepare their lineup and overall strategy to account for a jager pick but won't for clash, that's how cheese strats sometimes work.
Finally, you have to understand that jager is picked so often that the pool of rounds that sample size to compare to is low, much like operators that barely get picked, the singificance of the win delta is not that high and could be attributed to noise.
I only seem to notice this change on PC for extreme range gun fights and the magazine nerf definitely hurts for fighting against more than one attacker if you aren't cracked like let's say Beaulo and hit nothing but headshots. Overall I predict this change will not bring him in line and may well still have a 95% pick rate because of his utility in having 3 ADS's still. But simply changing you playstyle with the 416-C to using a flash hider and using bursts of 3-5 bullets while going for head shots will definitely help.