Discussing the Allegations Against Neil Gaiman - WARNING: Subject Matter May Be Triggering
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- As a huge Neil Gaiman fan, this is a video i didn’t want to make. However, it’s a discussion that does need to happen.
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*Council of Geeks has done two very thorough and excellent videos on this subject. Please check those out here.*
Part 1 - • About those Neil Gaima...
Part 2 - • More Neil Gaiman Alleg...
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#scandal #allegations #neilgaiman
Hey friends! The videos by Council of Geeks have come highly recommended to me on this subject, and I recently just watched them, so I want to refer them to you. Check the description, because I have added links to them.
My biggest problem with this situation is that SFWA has known about Gaiman's supposed actions for YEARS. If he did it, then SFWA is culpable as well since they have ignored this for a long time. This is not much different than the Harvey Weinstein case. People knew and didn't care until it became fashionable to care.
Oh wow, yeah that’s crazy that they haven’t done anything about it if they knew about it.
Adding in a separate comment (I was scared that one would get deleted before I posted), this is the most difficult of cases - withdrawal of consent in a presumed consensual relationship. This was my position after listening to the first four episodes. But then the fifth episode and the episode on the other podcast put into question the whole concept of consent (which was already dodgy in the first case as Gaiman was the employer). There is an indication of predatory behaviour, of using one's charm and celebrity status to gain sexual favours from women and its so ick. I'm also quite saddened he mentioned his autism diagnosis as a reason for not understanding cues. Really? Just yuck again. It's not about being into BDSM or being into young women (it's the person's private life). But imo it is about the fact that he very much used his public persona - his wealth, his charm, his relative power to proposition these women and that part, just why.
And the only answer I have arrived at so far is because he could (and never be questioned for it).
Dispirited. I thank the women who came forward. Hope the awareness they intended to spread does not die down. 🙏🏽
Yes I hope the awareness is elevated as a result of this. Even if there was consent, ongoing consent should never be assumed, and some of those other things are very much ick as you said.
Also, I’ve never deleted a comment, and I never will unless it’s an extreme case. I very much appreciate what you have shared.
@@BookishChas Thank you 🙏🏽 Just wanted to clarify I didn't mean to imply you would delete the comment (although you are perfectly within your right to do so if need be) - I was typing on my phone and was worried the text would disappear before I clicked post, has happened before. 🤭 So I split it into two comments.
I'm sad about this. However, I want to hope it is not our fault or our naivete for believing in people. What we can do once such allegations emerge is listen and recalibrate. Additionally, as you have done, providing a safe space for discussing this is also meaningful. 🙏🏽
The sadness first and foremost is for the women who were left with these horrible associations. Then it is wishing we had not needed to know this. Then the realisation that all of this could have been prevented by a single human being if they had just not acted on their baser instincts (again not talking about the sexual preferences at all but the need to proposition women who are in a position of disadvantage in terms of the power dynamic).
Take care. 🙏🏽
Yes I completely agree Paromita. I’m definitely recalibrating, and I’m so happy that the victims found a voice and a way to share what has happened.
I appreciate you clarifying. I’ve had that happen to me too lol.
I’m sure Gaiman had a variety of sexual encounters with women that did not involve, what appears to be acts so extreme they were deemed violent. However, men (and I guess women) who have sexual desires that involve extreme acts like the ones he is being accused of, need to find a willing partner with which to act this ‘fantasy’ out. Those people are difficult to find, so it is often easier to find those who, sadly, are either already damaged humans or too young to have fully formed boundaries or a fully established sense of self. That is what makes these allegations so bad. His victims were already victims of someone else, from what I’ve read and heard and he sniffed them out. And he was taught by the best of them growing up in Scientology. It also seems part of the fantasy was to have his victims scared and indebted to him and his fame was all part of the scenario. People hide in plain sight because people don’t want to see the flaws in their idols. I believe the world is full of people equally as talented as him but life does not afford everyone the same opportunities, so it’s silly putting certain lucky ones on pedestals. And yes, people who commit terrible acts against others can be charming and talented and geniuses. There lies the added danger.
@meaningfulmakings you make a lot of excellent points here. Thank you for sharing. Even I didn’t know the Scientology bit.
It's very difficult to process these allegations. Neil Gaiman helped get me into reading as a teenager, and some of his books I've read multiple times. It's so dispiriting to discover someone I admire could have done such awful things. While I honestly hope they're not true, you're right, the victims deserve to be heard and the truth uncovered.
Thanks so much for watching, and sharing your feelings on this. I so relate with what you said. Neil was one of the authors that reignited my fire for reading as an adult in my 20’s, and I’ve also read some of his books multiple times. I really kind of fell into a slump as this has been unfolding. Whatever the full truth is, I hope it comes out and things get resolved. I admired him greatly too.
Aw man this was hard to watch. I’m sorry Chas. Your pain is coming through. You are a nice man. I support separating the artist from the art. And I don’t think we have to apologize for liking another human being’s creativity 🤷🏻♂️ if we boycotted everyone’s work who did something horrible we would have practically nothing left Lolol ugh. I’m sorry.
Thank you so much! Yeah, this was a tough one, but you’re right. Avoiding everyone who does bad things would leave hardly any creative works left to enjoy. I appreciate you guys.
You are so right. In my youth I read Marcus Aurelius. He was resposible for thousands of deaths in expansion wars and who knows what else. You do'nt sit on the highest throne of the world out of the goodness of your heart. But he also was probably the best and wisest Cesar Rome ever had. We can still learn from him, after 2000 years.
I am grateful for books like that. I also read Ceasar himself - a very bad man. But a brilliant strategist who is still read today not only in military circles.
If you read what the old philosophers did at home ... they would all be canceled nowadays.
What now? I will read Gaiman's books again and learn from him. How to recognize predators, how they play their games, how they hide the game behind the truth, how to not be. I think I can do that. I think this is a very precious recource, because the mask is gone now. I will use that.
He owes me. He owes all of us. Especially the women in question.
@heiker1351 I’ve gleaned a lot from Marcus Aurelius as well. A lot of wisdom there indeed, and in other stoic writers as well.
I figure I can’t change that I liked the books I’ve read. But I’m done buying his books. When it’s a pattern, it’s impossible to deny that it’s likely true at least in one instance so…
Yes I agree, it does seem that’s its most likely true, and it’s just icky.
Great video Chas! The accusations are horrible and you’re the first person in this corner of booktube I have seen talk about this. I agree with you on still being able to enjoy his books and separate the art from the artist like Harry Potter and Jk Rowling. I’ll always enjoy HP and I haven’t read many of Gaimans books yet but I think I still might try some of them. My biggest issue is I don’t want to give any of those kinds of people my money so I will only get their books from the library or used copies. Another unfortunate thing is Gaimans audio narration is ruined for me. With these allegations his voice gives me the creeps. As the saying goes “be careful meeting your hero’s” or something like that. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day!
I totally appreciate your stance Drew, and yes this will make the audio especially difficult. The library or buying used copies is where I will land as well, since I feel the same about my money. At least I owned HP prior to her views becoming public. I’m glad I made the video, because I’ve seen a lot of people say they wondered what I thought.
Very eloquently put, Chas. Selfishly I’m happy I’ve never read a Gaiman book before and never had the chance to put him on a pedestal-cuz it’s not easy when someone we look up to isn’t what we’ve built them up to be.
Thanks Ben! Yeah I totally agree. He’s such an amazing writer, but you never know what truly goes on behind the scenes I guess.
I like that you're so supportive of victims. I think people tend to hedge on the side of "oh it's probably just someone looking for attention" so to hear you be supportive right off the bat is really encouraging. And I'm sure it means a lot to victims.
Thanks! I definitely think victims aren’t taken seriously a lot of times. Especially in the case of celebrities who have a lot of money. But not every accusation is a ploy to get money and attention.
First of all, kudos to you for making this video. I’m sure it wasn’t easy! But you said it well. Sending big hugs!
Thank you so much Fine! It was rough, but needed. 🤗
After so many of my favorite creators fell from grace, i have come to a place where I don't want a person's bad actions take away art that's meaningful to me. Also, in this day and age, boycotting or not talking about a person's work when they've done horrific things doesn't seem to do much good. If anything, it gives them an opportunity to slink away in silence. I think naming the bad acts on platforms like yours and raising awareness for anti SA organizations is a more tangible vector for change. But if knowing what a person did taints your ability to enjoy their art, I get that too.
So many good thoughts here. Thank you for sharing. I will still enjoy his art, but I think I may be constantly reminded of what happened. The books are amazing regardless.
As a long time NG fan, this has been devastating to hear...at first, I thought 'oh they are just trying to frame him', But then it quickly became clear that, despite a rather inept series of podcasts, that these allegations have something to them. As a victim of SA, I'm furious at NG and support these women's claims first. It's especially galling as he has claimed to champion women for years, and yet now, like Joss Whedon, seems to have been using it as a cover for quite the opposite. There's a tiny part of me that still hopes this is all wrong, and that he will be officially cleared of all allegations (and proven innocent by law), but it doesn't look likely. Will i buy any more NG books, etc, I really don't know...will I keep the copies I do have? Most likely, as I can just about separate art from artist here. Either way, it's devastating for all of us fans. Great video and subscribed.
Oh thank you so much! It’s been really devastating for me too, and frankly depressing. I’ve struggled so hard with reading this month. I appreciate you sharing, and I’m sorry you have been a victim. It’s truly horrid that people do these types of things. It does look very likely that it’s true to a point, yes, and my approach to his books is a struggle for me too, but I do plan to keep what I have. Again, I appreciate you. Hang in there.
I respect the fact that you've chosen to tackle this subject, Charles! You're the first person I thought of when this news broke, so I'm grateful you've taken the difficult step of sharing your thoughts. The RUclips channel Council of Geeks did a 2-hour video on this topic, of which I only watched the intro and the thoughts and conclusions, but the summary is that the very best case scenario is that Gaiman acted highly unethically by having consensual relationships with much younger women within strong power dynamics (and the "best case" scenario doesn't believe the victims!).
I recently encountered a similar situation with the lead singer of the punk band Anti-Flag, a band whose lyrics have always had messages that I strongly supported. It so often seems that if you give a man some power, he'll turn into a creep at best. (Another reason why I like the general idea of Anarchism: the equal sharing of power!)
I also like the 2 points you've covered. Personally, I'd like to change the phrase "Don't meet your idols" to "Don't idolize anyone who's rich and famous!" The people who are doing great work in this world are doing so in our streets, neighbourhoods, health care institutions, etc. with no recognition and for very little pay.
But I struggle more with the "separating the art from the artist" issue than you. I'm not comfortable with supporting horrible people like Rowlings, but I'm not sure where the line is. How apparently/publicly "perfect" does a person need to be in order for me to be okay with consuming what they create? I don't know. Everyone has their faults.
Yeah I totally get the struggle Josh. I actually don’t plan to buy anything else from her, and because I already own Harry Potter I don’t feel money previously spent to be an issue. I probably should have made that clear in the Rowling bit.
I agree with you on the ideals of anarchism in this scenario. Too much power in one hand corrupts. It really is the unseen individuals who seem to do the most good.
I agree that the best case scenario is not in favor of the victims, and I’m hoping it doesn’t just get swept under the rug. These things often do.
I appreciate your thoughts as always my friend. 🤘
It can’t be proven as long as there’s no physical evidences. And guess what! In this case I don’t believe they can find any.
Physical evidence in a case of this type is hard to find anyway. It’s not likely we’ll get concrete answers either way.
@@BookishChas Rashomon, man, that’s Rashomon, everyone has a chance to be the predator or victim.
I've only started seeing these videos pop up on my feed this last week and it's so bizarre. I liked some of his books and didn't much care for some but I loved his stance on diversity, inclusion, his actions as a UN ambassador for refugees. Like, I really thought he was one of the 'good guys'.
Yeah I know. This is all so surreal. I’m still in shock.
Considering the law does not protect victims even when they come forward look at one of the victims that actually went to the police they didn’t even interview Neil at all even with all the evidence. SA victims are not taken seriously also the fact that it already traumatic to come forward imagine doing that and not be taken seriously even with evidence it’s messed up. Neil gaiman used his power, money to continue this behavior
Yeah I was really saddened that the police really did nothing.
Was worse is I see a lot of people blaming the women absolutely disgusting. Thank his there are still people that see through this for what it is.
@carla3693 yeah I’ve seen a lot of victim blaming too.
Great video , you made a very professional video about the situation.
Thanks Bad! ☺️
Excellent, thoughtful video Chas. I know it was hard to make 😢
Thanks Theo! Yeah it was.
Kevin Spacey was possibly my favorite actor and he still is one of them, but I had to come to grips with his actions in 2017. Just because we love someone and their work doesn't mean we should run defense for them when things like this come to light. Much respect to you for discussing this with tact, compassion and humanity. This situation is shameful, but I'm becoming less and less surprised every time an accusation like this comes out.
Thank you so much! It was difficult to tackle, and I too am becoming less and less surprised. I’m familiar with the Kevin Spacey situation as well. It really is shameful and disheartening.
When I look at a public figure taking public stands for "virtuous" causes, the line "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." springs to mind far too often, and then I wonder just what the person is hiding. Sadly... too often it does turn out that there is SOMETHING the person is hiding, and I'm left to wonder if the person truly does support those causes, or if support for those causes are a smokescreen in case they get caught with their hidden bad behaviour.
in ALL such cases that involve illegal activities, however, I hold to one standard - until it is proven by a court of law, I do not believe the accusations. It's not a binary "Yes they are true/No they are not true." (and definitely no accusation of LYING at this stage) situation, it is a Schrodinger's Box situation where they are simultaneously True and Not True until someone looks in the box. (ie: takes the accusations into the appropriate legal system) The most I will personally do is withdraw any support for a person if the accusations become too much (like with the Mr. Beast situation), but in all cases, I prefer to wait for a court of law to rule on the situation before I pass judgement. Because sometimes... the accusations are misleading at best (see: Johnny Depp/Amber Heard), and only a court of law, where there are legal punishments for lying, can truly winnow the accusation wheat from the accusation chaff.
Even if the accused comes out and makes some kind of public apology, I do tend to discredit it if it doesn't come out of a legal process - how often do we hear stories of an "innocent man" who goes to prison because they accepted a plea deal from a prosecutor rather than risk going to jail for a longer period of time? I view public apologies in a similar way - an attempt to placate the "prosecutor" (aka the social media mob) by meeting the mob partway and hoping that satiates them, and they go away. And the opposite might also be true, yes - admit to a smaller crime so the mob goes away and doesn't punish you for the larger crime that will come out if you are forced into a full out legal battle.
So until Gaiman goes to court over these allegations, I won't change my behaviour towards purchasing or consuming his work. I still own and read the Sandman novels, I still want to watch Dark Omens on Prime, I still hope for a Sandmany Season 2 on Netflix (though I was not particularly happy with Season 1), etc.. But I will be watching with sad interest to see what happens with these allegations because while my politics now no longer align with the politics Gaiman espouses, I still thought of him as an honourable and decent human being. I don't like the idea that he might actually be a predator to any degree, and if he is, I don't like the idea that he might "get away with it" because the virtuous public persona that I wholeheartedly believed until these allegations came to light causes people to support him if he doesn't actually deserve that support.
Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings on the matter. I also truly hope that this will go to court, because I agree that is the only way to know for sure. While the reported evidence is pretty awful, I guess we can’t really know for sure. I’m also waiting to see what happens. I was reminded of the Depp/Heard trial when this news broke, and wondered if it was a similar situation. I also believe victimization is real, so I hope that the full truth of this comes out.
HP Lovecraft put his feelings in his art, like anyone that does that I don’t see how you can separate them from their art. Rowling’s feelings are in her art - every word of Harry Potter is supporting her views on the world, not just trans but racism and sexism and beyond. Ignoring those facts doesn’t change what the art is.
I agree to a point, but frankly HP has grown beyond Rowling at this point. Art takes on its own existence after reaching that kind of critical acclaim, and frankly it’s done so many good things for thousands of readers. It’s no longer just about Rowling. Also, I’m not going to get rid of books I already own, but I won’t buy new ones. That’s where I land on that.
As far as Lovecraft, he’s dead. And though it doesn’t excuse his beliefs, his bigoted and narrow minded views were pretty common place during his era. Doesn’t make it right, but it was an unfortunate reality. The dude created something that has gone beyond just him.
See, the thing is, if you get rid of every author that’s done something wrong you’ll have nothing left to enjoy. Humans treat other humans like crap unfortunately.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@BookishChas How can you make that argument with art that has a race in it that "enjoys being enslaved"
@jessicamacallister9272 as far as Lovecraft goes, in the historical context he lived in, what he believed was commonplace. As I stated before it doesn’t make it right, but it also doesn’t detract from the impact of the work. Take for instance Victor Lavalle. A black man who loves the ideas that Lovecraft created, but who is also not racist. He writes a retelling of one of Lovecraft’s more famous stories and we have the amazing book The Ballad of Black Tom. The creations of Lovecraft have inspired countless creators despite his xenophobia. I’m not sure you can argue with that, but you are free to disagree. That’s the thing in all this. We can agree to disagree. I firmly believe this is not a black and white issue. Same with Rowling.
Also, the main thrust of this video is about Gaiman. Let’s not beat a dead horse on the rabbit holes I happened to compare it to.
I appreciate you making this video and striking a tone that sounds fair and levelheaded.
However, this isn’t about a criminal trial. This is about ethics and standards as a community. When you say “if you are the victim of a crime….” I believe it’s well-intentioned. A lot of the allegations (sexual assault) are criminal behavior. A lot of it though is simply predatory behavior, and we don’t need to condone that either.
It really makes me scratch my head to see so many people invoking “innocent until proven guilty” - a standard for criminal court - in discussing allegations of misconduct including harmful predation, manipulation, and coercion.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from. This isn’t a criminal trial, though it could maybe turn into one. Doubtful I guess. I’m definitely not condoning predatory behavior, and from a lot I’ve learned recently it sounds like he was definitely engaged in that. Even though “innocent until proven guilty” is used in the legal system, it was created by an ideal that should be strived for in all accusatory circumstances. I appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts on this.
Thank you for this clarification. If the public is not allowed to have an opinion about the behaviour of a person who is very public and therefore likes to hear the public opinion about their work and their persona just because there is no proof ...
There would never be proof for most of them. No investigation, no trial, no verdict. Because the public gave them so much money and fame that they are able to silence people.
Yes, there are false allegations. But who counts the victims who are never heard? Because they know that their voice alone stands against a very famous man and his allies and a fanbase of millions.
Not long ago we had the Rammstein scandal. There never was a trial. The famous lawyers made sure of that. There was no real proof. Lots of people made sure of that, especially allies of the completely innocent, very, very famous victim. I feel so sorry for him. He must have been so hurt by all this. Such a nice person.
But what happens at those concerts and before and after ... I have a strong opinion about that. And a very strong opinion about the fans of this very special predator. The hate and blame they overwhelmed those women with was disgusting.
Because there rarely is any valid proof those predators can do what they want. No matter how depraved it is. If this is legal behaviour, we really should think about changing the law. Not asking for proof from legally abused very young women in a scenario with a power gap as big as the Grand Canyon. And a huge crowd of likeminded fans who applaude to this behaviour.
It is the same here and also very different. This is worse because there is a second power gap that is invisible.
One look at Lindemann and you know everything you have to know. You can listen to the songs, they tell you everything very explicitely. Even so it is still abusive. There is a manipulative scheme going on that is designed to use the special atmosphere and dynamic of a rock concert and the naivety of those very young and very often, lets say especially vulnerable women.
They are not only young and beautiful. They are targets, of barely legal age or even under, nobody really cares about that because they lie about their age, with issues that are quite obvious if you know what you are looking for. Predators know that. They look for signs.
If we are not talking about things like that publicly they will never change. These are structures that are in place for a very long time. Obviously structures that lead to unpunished predatory behaviour in positions of power because ... First there has to be proof. Then we can talk about everything else. If you have no proof be quiet. Shut your mouth. Only speak when you are asked. Those messages are power games. Who profits from that?
If you always give a child whatever it wants, you spoil it. You create a child that does not accept no for an answer. When a powerful man always gets what he wants ... Boundaries vanish. Things escalate. And they are clever.
Do you commit a murder when there are witnesses? Yes. If the witnesses are your witnesses.
We all know that proof can vanish, even from inside a police department. If there is enough power involved. There is ample proof of that.
But if victims have nothing but their voice? Innocent until proven guilty. There is obviously something wrong with the system. And the perception of fairness. Something profound changed since the dark ages. If a noble man sent his men to claim a woman from the village the people from the village knew that this is wrong. They could not do anything to prevent that, but they did not blame the woman.
What happened since then? Is power somehow a free ticket to do everything and everyone likes whatever "everything" is? Does moral integrity somehow change when fame is involved?
Am I crazy or is there something strange happening? Maybe some manipulation with some kind of purpose? Something nobody really seems to perceive? When women ask a woman for proof for a violation of her body and free will something is really, really wrong.
Yes, to prevent false claims we have to ask for proof. Of course we cannot give every woman a free ticket. But the public is no court.
In the dark ages they discussed things in the tavern. Or by the well. Or under the big tree in the middle of the village. Now the internet is the tavern.
They can say in public whatever they want. But if the public does not like what they hear ... The public cannot discuss those people because of what? Because talking, having an opinion in a tavern is forbidden nowadays?
If somebody does not like something we do we also have to bear the burden of being in a tavern as big as the world.
They profit from being in this tavern and telling us what we want to hear. They take our money with pleasure. So they can bear the burden, too. We don't have tons of money if we get hurt in public.
Thank you so much for posting this video and for your kind comments towards victims. I know it's so hard when it's someone whose work you love! When I was still working in church music a few years ago, there were serious allegations made about a beloved composer. I stood up for the victims, and many people were not nice to me, I think in part because it's so hard to separate that emotional reaction we have to the art. You've struck a good balance here, and I really appreciate it!
Thank you so much Jessica, and thank you for sharing your experience as well. It’s a difficult balance to strike, but it’s important for victims to have a voice. I appreciate you. Hope you’re doing well. 🙂
Great breakdown, this is such a hard topic. I firmly agree we have to take the allegations seriously and investigate, at the same time balance innocent until proven guilty and some of the issue is that it's been a while since at least some of the allegations happened, which makes it almost impossible to prove at this point. Just because someone can't prove it, doesn't mean it didn't happen either. It's a rough situation and I really hope he didn't do what he's accused of. In my line of work, I will tell you, people make frivolous allegations all the time, you would be appalled at how much and it could simply be out of jealousy. Great job
Thanks so much Bryce! I really appreciate your perspective, especially from a legal standpoint of someone who works in the field. I did consider that this could just be malicious, and the timing could indicate that as well. He’s in the spotlight a lot right now. However, it does seem that some of it is partially true at least, which sucks. I haven’t listened to the podcast, but someone else told me there are audio clips. 😱
Thank you for supporting us in the trans community
You’re most welcome 😊
Yea I'm sad that this is how I discovered the channel, but really glad I did. There aren't enough trans-friendly spaces to discuss books and stories and geeky stuff.
Thanks for being a lovenerd island in a sea of hatenerds Chas!
@Jane-oz7pp aww you’re welcome. Lovenerd island - I like that. 🙂 I’m glad you found me too, despite how it happened. I’m glad you’re here.
Well said, Chas! I’m so sorry about how this news has hit you and many other huge Gaiman fans. I’m willing to bet it’s also been a huge blow to people in his close circle. I assume many had no idea about these allegations until the stories started surfacing 💔😢
Yes I’m sure you’re right. Being that these things happened mostly a decade ago, I’m sure many who know him had no idea. I feel bad for his family and kids, but especially the victims if it’s true. It’s pretty awful stuff. Thanks Johanna! 😊
TBH, supporting "causes" is easy enough and gets you a lot of virtue signal for the lip service and in the current climate makes you a bit of a hero in some circles - sadly, doing more than your fair share of it COULD be an effort to compensate for a guilty conscience. I've had so many heroes prove to be all too human that I just don't worship personality anymore. IMO Rowlings opinions are nothing compared to actual acts of abuse and exploitation.
I totally appreciate hearing your perspective on this, and yes, as far as severity goes, abusive acts of this matter definitely way more heavily than the words of Rowling.
As a transgender person who really appreciated his advocacy over the years, and the way he praised my writing as a kid... This is genuinely heartbreaking. I've never been a huge fan of his books (just a personal taste thing) but as an author he WAS a major influence and inspiration in my life in so many ways.
I hope they're not true, but more than anything if they are I hope the victims are doing better now and that justice is served in a way that facilitates their healing.
Yes I feel the same way. I hope they are successful in getting justice too. Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective. He really has been a big advocate for trans rights, which does make this really unfortunate.
As another trans person, yes...this is just devastating. Especially as NG seemed like a counterpoint to the awfulness of JKR. This is not to say that he doesn't still care about/support the trans community, but if these allegations are fully true, then it's not something that I, as a trans person, want to be associated with. These women get my sympathy first and foremost.
@EmlynBoyle yes indeed. He may still truly support trans people. In fact he probably does, but all this overshadows any human decency he has played a part in.
You handled this well, Chas. It’s a tragic and painful situation. I also agree with you about the negative effects of putting celebrities on pedestals. My best wishes to you!
Thanks so much Philip! Very tragic, yes. I hope you’re doing well.
Thank you for making this video. It's really brave to talk so openly and emotionally about such a sensitive topic. It's also really nice to see the community being so supportive of the women who came forward. It's been heartbreaking to both hear their stories, and to see all the fans NG's let down with his behaviour.
Where I've ended up coming down is: if I object to the artist, I won't always 100% avoid their work, but at the same time, if they're a living artist, I probably won't buy their work going forward.
Yeah that’s a good healthy spot to land at, I think. I’m glad the community has supported the victims as well. It’s very difficult to think of such a seemingly wonderful person doing these things, but that’s the problem with pedestals. It’s still all alleged at this point, but it doesn’t look very hopeful.
I’m glad you were able to come to a solution regarding this subject and how to address it on the channel. I know it’s hard for you but I think you addressed this very eloquently. I have to admit though that it makes me glad that I don’t have an author or celebrity that I have put on a pedestal. I like a lot of them but it’s mostly in regard to their work and not so much them as a person.
Thanks Alyssa! Yeah the fact that I so greatly admired him as a person did make this a lot harder, and it taught me a lesson lol. I guess we’ll see what comes of all this.
Never read Gaimain, never seen your channel. Really appreciate your sensitivity here. Sometimes I just feel like every successful man uses his power to exact sexual gratification. I know that’s a broad generalization, I’m being unfair. But it’s just so discouraging hearing person after person after person engaging in this type of misconduct.
Edit: I like your Gambit shirt
Thank you so much! Gambit is my favorite of the X-men. It may be a broad generalization, but it feels like that for sure, so I understand the spirit of what you’re saying. It is very discouraging, and it’s worse when it’s one of your favorite people. I appreciate you watching, thank you. 😊
It's the ultimate power. Women bear children, they are the creators of life in many (stupid) cultures. You need two sexes to create.
To dominate a woman, to take her against her will has a spiritual side. Those men play god. Little children with no spine, playing high and mighty, who violate the most vulnerable and weak in their sick games. They use them as playthings. And they break what they use. And they don't care. They never stop. Those games go on and on and on. They are so weak and afraid that they wait for somebody else to stop them.
Death takes care of the sins and crimes for Morpheus. He is too afraid to turn around and look at what he has done. Eternity in hell for denying him what he wants. Eternity without a body, unable to die, for being able to truly love.
No remorse, no empathy.
He can deny what he wants. He is Morpheus. I always knew that.
But he made me think he learned. Created a new self with a white robe and a green stone. A hope in hell. And he made me think that all this happened in his mind. I will not forgive this.
M is for magic. This is his dream: that Death takes care of him so he can create a new persona, a different one, without being forced to acknowledge what he did. A new lie, better than the last. And everybody will believe him, the way we believed him the first time.
I won't. This will stain the white robe forever. His lies are so elaborate, so huge ... endless. He himself set the scale. There is no law on earth to punish the crimes he committed. He made sure of that.
I would like to send the furies after him. But they will come. M is for magic. He wrote his own story. And we are not far in. Maddox and his personal muse maybe.
The ring, ahem, stone of power is still intact, I think. No one has ever challenged him.
Lyta Halls brainchild is still to come. The furies will find him, destroy his dreamworld and force him to face the end of his game. And he chooses death.
We will find out how good he is with prophesies. And magic. Not good enough. Lies are hollow, they have no power. His world will crumble and die without him. They will all leave him. Even the books.
A king of dreams, prince of stories in an empty world with no input and reality closing in means game over. No more tricks. No more power. His horcruxes will not help him. He will sleep in the bed he made for himself.
And I will not mourn him. No epic wake. No tears, no sentimental speeches, no bombastic end. He can join the dead forest in hell he buried Tori in. Look her in the eyes for eternity. That's my verdict. No law on earth ... But there are other dreamings. He is not the only one with stories.
When I heard about it, I immediately thought about you. Must be heart breaking.
The artist and the art are not the same thing and so no one should be put on a moral pedestal. If the allegations are true, I hope he gets what’s coming to him.
Great video. Must have been difficult to make.
I hope he does as well. I’ll still appreciate the art he created, but man it’s unfortunate. It was very hard to make. Thanks Epic!
Thanks mate. It's been a difficult time for me to come to terms with it also. I've reread Sandman last week, in a way saying goodbye to it. But I had to stop after I read the Richard Madoc part, the signs are there and that he's trying to explain away/atone for his behaviour. I used to think he based it on someone he knew and was exposing it in a way, its horrible to realise it was a self insert.
You’re welcome! Yeah it’s never easy to hear these things. I’ll still enjoy the books, I think, but it definitely won’t be the same.
The Sandman is something very special to me. I am a survivor of a highly abusive, dysfunctional family, and Gaimans books are triggers. I used them for self therapy. To find out what it is that triggers me, to analyze it, to understand things from a save distance, to desensitize ...
It is not about the law. It is not about consent or not. It is about a pattern and intentional manipulation.
My favourite author does not deny the facts, all he does is cowardly claim that there was consent. I don't care if there was. There was a very, very unhealthy power dynamic he used. He did that. That means that for decades he created a picture of himself and his morals that is a lie. He deceived millions.
I used this lie to heal myself from abuse. This is so sick that I will never forgive that. And if there are patterns ... He did what my family does. Creating an elaborate lie, making people, many people, believe that lie, that false reality, to make them defend him if the victims speak out. If they try to escape the vicious cycle of gaslighting and brainwashing. I know what those mixed messages that don't fit together mean. M is for magic ... That's brainwashing. He can do that. He delivered thousands of pages of proof.
Feeding carefully constructed misinformation the victims and to carefully chosen flying monkeys to create a net to catch flies they can use or abuse. Only they can see the whole picture with their mask with facet eyes.
A mask with faceted eyes and an artificial spine. They see and control everything, they are cowards who victimize the helpless, isolate them and use others and make them complices in their crimes. They only go as far as they get away with, there are never witnesses when they go too far, they control the narrative.
I can see that exact same pattern here that I had to endure in my own personal hell. And I want to vomit.
They drowned me, but I obviously am a cat, too. One life is gone.
They hate me that much. Hundreds of people believe the abusers love me, they have tons of stories they use as proof, countless witnesses to their shadow theater that is just a facade to what they really do. If somebody sees it it is almost impossible to go against them. They are what Gaiman is in my hometown, the nearby city, where my brother, who now is the main protagonist, is a powerful man in the gastronomy. He is the rockstar of the scene in this city. He knows everybody, from city officials in the highest ranks down to the lowest criminals. He uses all of them to scare people into submission. Everybody who has to know knows he is best buddy with them. He feeds them with drugs, alcohol, food, and everything they need. He can provide everything. He is connected.
I and all his other victims have no friends - he made sure of that. He only allows contact to his buddies. People who are predators, too. And they are not as cowardly as him. They are way more dangerous when it comes to violence. They don't care if there are witnesses. They have him to have their back.
That was my life. Brainwashed, caught in a huge net of lies and allies, abused again and again. I could not win, I could not talk. Traumatized so I was literally unable to speak about them. Don't say anything bad. Nothing happened. You lie, you are crazy. Gaslighting.
The author of Sandman, who invented Morpheus, the Corinthian, who is the dark mirror of humanity, who only lives and feels through his victims, Richard Maddoc, who abuses a muse for decades, and so many others, the one who taught me to write about untellable things, who gave me my voice back, who gave me the power to use that voice, hits the exact same blind spots my family created.
I don't need any proof. The proof of what he did is in my bookshelf. I read it countless times.
Lucifer, the lightbringer, fell from the heavens and l cut his wings. With my own hands. He can sing his siren songs until the end of times, I will never believe a word again.
I will use him like he used countless victims. Patterns mean there are more. Many, many more. Silenced, too scared to talk. Maybe unable to talk like I was for decades.
I know exactly how it feels. What it does to you. How it isolates you further, destroys any healthy relationship. There are no healthy relationships if you are silenced about everything. This invisible inability scares people because they don't understand. It confuses them. That's not me, there are voices talking through me. It's terrifying. They all flee, sooner or later. Or I do because I feel guilty. Because I am unable to tell the truth. Too scared, too ashamed, to guilty because I am the one who is scary for the ones I love and trust. And I feel like I am the one who betrays their trust because I cannot trust them enough to talk. They don't know that it is a curse. Cat got my tongue. AND my brain.
There are a thousand cats. Dreaming of a world full of mice they can play with until they are nothing more than broken toys. Lorded over by Dream of the Endless.
It is all there. And it scares me shitless. But I am not silent anymore, not blind, and I can manage my fear. I don't need the spine of a god to protect me. I am strong. I survived death, I can survive the fall of my saviour who turned into the one who freezes my blood every time he enters a scene. The dark mirror.
I will use the made up stories of my abusers to tell my own tale. We will see who is better at telling convincing stories. The truth has power. Lies are hollow. People can feel that power.
For months now I was searching. I need to write my own book to get rid of their countless curses. Of their magic. To give them shape and form and words. Abracadabra, with my word I create the world.
This way his last gift to me. An anchor to my story, a red threat to navigate the labyrinth they created. I get lost in the stories the same way Delirium loses herself. In a way I am her. Losing thoughts, losing myself in a net that catches flies. Not anymore. I can use his net now. I know what sits in the center, I can use his pull to not get lost. To weave my own storie around his. The storie that contains everything I went through. Morpheus is my brother. Morpehus is him. He can deny as much as he likes. I am no judge. I am just Delirium. May the flies take care of him.
First let me say that I’m so sorry for the trauma and abuse you suffered at the hands of people who are supposed to love you. Thank you for sharing. I agree about the pattern of manipulative behavior that goes beyond the question of consent.
@@BookishChasDon't be sorry, please. I am not sorry for myself. Maybe they destroyed my reality, again and again, but I escaped into dreams. My multiverse is as huge as Gaimans. Larger. It contains his plus all my other safe places. My mind is bigger than his. In a way ...😂
I learned so much. To see the universe in a grain of sand. To see patterns. To read images, symbols, signs. To read the unspoken language. And to understand darkness. And light. There is always light.
There is only one place with true darkness. And that place is not in my universe.
I broke their power with the help of Neil Gaiman and many, many others. This new catastrophe helped me understand and see, really see, what they did to me. To feel it. I could not feel what they did. Not at all. That's what makes us blind. To be unable to feel the pain.
These are all very precious gifts. I am thankful for them.
They will get what they deserve. In this world or another.
All I have to do is quit their game. I did that. And I can heal now. No more nightmares roaming reality.
And Gaiman helped me one last time. Shattered the last false hope and opened the last black hole. It's painful, yes. But pain is a teacher. Just like fear. To avoid them is a recipe for desaster.
I am free now. I will dream up a new life. Glue the pieces together and live. It will take a while, but I can feel it coming. It is all coming together.
It sounds crazy, but I am grateful that this happened. It was the last piece of the puzzle. I was still clinging to a falae hope. He destroyed that. But Destruction is also Creation. So, this is good for me, in a twisted way.
Maybe this can help the women, in a way. Maybe they read this. Maybe I can give them some hope that the endless nights are not endless. There are stars who are not cold. Worlds that are not cruel and sick. There is always hope, even in hell.
He will not take that away from me. I will separate my feelings from him, but not from his words. They are true.
@heiker1351 yes true. Maybe this will help the women. I hope so.
@@BookishChas We can always hope. 😊
Your video helped me to get some things out of my system. I'm sorry to have spammed your comment section so much.
Your reaction triggered a lot. I see so many fans feeling the same way you do. Blaming themselves for idolization. I did that, too. I blamed myself for everything others did. That's why gaslighting is so cruel and dangerous.
@heiker1351 I’m so glad my video helped you, and you don’t need to apologize at all. It wasn’t spamming. 😊
Cancelling everything is so disapointed :(. I have more questions than answers. People lie so until he has his turn to speak I am making no judgements and neither should anybody else.
Agreed Anna, I do hope to hear his actual side of the story.
Hey Chas, really good video and well thought out. NG is one of my favorite authors. I have only just learned about these allegations in the past month or so and have been processing my thoughts and feelings on them as you have. I agree with everything you’ve said here about ‘death of the author’ and how it applies to my “problematic favs”. Bad people can make beautiful and wonderful art. And NG is not even an entirely BAD person. I’m certainly not going to burn all my NG books. If I buy more NG books in the future I will buy them from used bookstores. Right now, I’m taking a break from my Sandman reread. If and when Netflix releases a second season of Sandman I’ll probably reevaluate my feelings.
Thank you Brittanie! I’m the same, definitely not going to get rid of my Gaiman books. I’m also not sure how I will approach season 2 of Sandman. I’ll probably watch it, but will have to see how I feel. Luckily I’ve read, and own, almost everything he’s written so if anything new comes out I’ll be taking the same approach as you. I appreciate you watching and engaging in the conversation. It’s a tough one. 🤗
I am one of those people whose been waiting to see if you would say anything... only because I know you're such a big fan. I think the decision to separate art from artist is a very personal one... I tend to be like you, and I do separate the 2... but I also recognize that not everyone feels that way... and that's ok 🤗
Yes absolutely, that is definitely ok. Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them. Thanks for watching Kris! This was a tough one.
When there is a pattern is most definitely true.and even workshop for writing know because they had a rule not to sleep with student and kept Neiman away from them. They called it the Gaiman rule. So I won’t be supporting Neil ever. The industry is also at fault for knowing his predatory ways and did nothing because of money disgusting
Oh I didn’t know they had a rule named after him. Geez, that’s bad.
It was exposed recently when the victims came forward others in the industry tried to keep his behavior hush hush. So they tried to prevent him from being around women 18 and younger also there was a woman who also was in his inner circle talking about Neil asking someone for women that are interesting but not enough to fall in love with all kind of predatory behavior coming to light.
I believe it was at clarion west writer workshop had to make a statement when people started to press them about it
@carla3693 oh wow
To add a bit of levity because this subject breaks my heart. Sick t-shirt. Nice to see the cajun getting love
Yeah it breaks my heart too. Thank you so much! Gambit is my favorite of the X-men. Probably my favorite marvel character period.
i'm not fully caught up with this situation yet but you were the first person I thought of when I heard the rumblings of it. I'm glad, and ever so slightly envious, that this won't effect your enjoyment of his writing. The whole JKR situation really killed my love for HP and it's a massive shame because it was one of the first series I was emotionally invested in. You're right, though, we're all guilty of hero worship in one way or another. We have to remember that as human beings, these celebrities are capable of some truly awful shit and, if anything, our deification of them affords them the privilidge to get away with it. I hope this situation is resolved in the best way possible, be it NG having his name cleared or facing the repercussions of his actions.
I hope it gets resolved too Mason. It’s really a terrible ordeal. I totally get you on the subject of JK Rowling too. I’ve been thinking about you, and hope you’re doing well mate.
An important video - thanks for posting this, Chas, I know this is personal for you and hard to process.
Thanks Josh! I appreciate the affirmation. It was a tough one to make.
I know of your deep love for some of Gaiman's works especially Ocean which is also my favourite Gaiman work. When the allegations broke, I listened to all the podcast episodes in which two women came forward. About a month later, another episode was released in which two more women came forward. Another woman came forward in a separate podcast. I listened to all of them. It is five women as of now, me posting this comment to your video.
My conclusion is that there is nothing that can be done legally - the "day in court" is unlikely but I am no legal expert. However, he comes across as a massive creep. And a pattern of not respecting womens' boundaries and leveraging his charming persona (and his celebrity status) to gain sexual favours. Is consent possible when there is such a power imbalance? I feel the onus was on him to behave and he came across as someone who failed to do that over decades, repeatedly.
I agree with you on separation of art and artist. I still think Ocean is a really good book, so are Coraline and Neverwhere. I remain meh about American Gods and Anansi Boys. The part that I'm being unable to separate so far is listening to his audiobook narrations. This is why I mentioned listening to all the podcast episodes where the women came forward, in these episodes at least two voice clips were shared where Neil Gaiman speaks to (two different) women very charmingly after they are in that vulnerable situation of having received his advances and either been involved or having second thoughts...and he says all the right things but it could very well be manipulation. Anyway back to the topic, it's the same alluring voice narrating the audiobook and I can't, I can't as of today. But reading his works, not rushing to read or reread them, but it's not ruled out at all.
The place where he has kind of lost faith for me is his public "activist" (a lot of which is online) persona. Someone who treated women this way - I don't know what their supporting the rights of vulnerable women means. I'm not denying that he gave money to charitable causes but it feels hypocritical, almost performative you know? So yes, social activism wise, I will not listen to Neil Gaiman's views.
I want to end firstly by saying kudos for even making this video. I knew you'd have been devastated when the allegations broke, but didn't expect anything because nobody I know has spoken out barring one other Booktuber as of today. That the first person to come forward from SFFtube is you, someone who actually has Gaiman as a favourite artist, respect.
I'm sad and sorry. What to say. You're probably right about the putting on a pedestal part but how on earth does one know? Publicly (and okay I didn't follow him online or anything but still) he seemed to be doing everything right. And then this. 🤷🏽♀️
Thank you so much Paromita! I appreciate your detailed and candid response. It’s just what this topic needs I think. I read a lot of articles summarizing the podcast episodes, but I have not listened to them. I didn’t realize there were audio clips. Eww! Yes that would make it hard to listen to his audiobooks now I imagine. It does sound like the day in court won’t happen from what you said, and I feel awful for the victims. It does tarnish his public activism for sure. You’re right that’s it’s so hard to know about people that we elevate. I appreciate you very much, and thanks again.
What I find most problematic in all of this, and you reminded me, are the repercussions that tarnish completely separate groups.
If predators hide in activist groups to create an image it is almost unavoidable that those scandals damage the reputation of those groups, too. Because many people will ask themselves if an activist is just another predator playing games. It creates distrust that is very hard to separate from those groups. This makes me so angry.
We have this everywhere, this is not the only instance where the wrong people hide their true faces in a job that represents the opposite. Psychology is an example.
There is no better place for a manipulator to hide and revel in power phantasies. Tons of helpless victims in a crisis, nobody suspects anything, they can always say they are the experts. This is no hard science. There are different opinions, schools. And there are many more jobs where predators hide. And they do damage to the reputation of those jobs.
If you ever come across a predator in a power position in psychology you will never forget how dangerous they are. I was'nt even the victim, but it was so bad. Personal revenge in the cruelest way just because she did not like a 19 years old apprentice. He did not want to play her games and that was his doom. She waited until she could do the most damage for the rest of his life. And she hit him as hard as she could. And they can hit very hard.
You feel so helpless when you have to watch and are unable to do anything. She is one of the people I really despise. But now she has company.
Great video im with you in separating the art from the artist not that its always easy when you feel so connected to the artist.
Yes that does make it a whole lot harder
It is an unfortunate truth that many brilliant writers are deeply troubled people. It can be heartbreaking for those of us who tend to put people on pedestals. But the same demons that drive people to write compulsively and prolifically are often not conducive to robust mental health. I feel bad for Amanda & the kid...this whole thing is really unpleasant.
Oh yes I feel bad for his family dealing with all this as well Kathleen. You’re right about the demons that so many brilliant people, authors included, are settled with. Everyone has the potential for light and dark, and some just can’t contain the darkness. I appreciate you watching, and sharing your thoughts. 🙂
There’s a lot of troubled people on this earth don’t SA or become predators
@carla3693 yes this is very true
Well Done for making this video my friend, it must have been very difficult to speak so honestly about your favorite author! I know it all seems pretty bleak, but do remember these are allegations at this stage.. I do feel so sad for these victims if it's true, but time will tell as to what happened. I agree on separating the art from the artist, and will continue to read and enjoy both Gaiman and Lovecraft.
Yes indeed. They are still great works of fiction. I do understand they are just allegations, and that gives me a little hope, but what I’ve read is pretty bad. But yes, until it’s fully proven I’m not in a place to say either way.
You said a bunch of stuff I wish I could. Thank you! Well done.
Thank you very much. I went back and forth on whether to do this video. I’m glad I did though.
I don't think liking the art is a problem, and not something anyone should have to feel bad about or actively reject (unless the art itself is obviously problematic). I can't personally bring myself to buy more works, old or new, from someone I find deeply objectionable, however. In part it's just discomfort with the association, but I also can't stand the idea that my money actively supports them. Am I contributing to covering someone's future legal fees, PR campaign, or helping them maintain a platform they're using to cause harm? Even if my paltry money doesn't ultimately matter to someone wealthy, it matters to me. I try not to hold others to that standard unless they actively defend the person to justify it, but I can't deny that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about other people's direct or indirect support of someone I think despicable, even if they distance themselves from the harm the person has done.
With someone long since dead like Lovecraft it's different. Even though the works themselves are sometimes problematic there's distance, a historical context and a complete personal record of the artist through which to view the art. Sticking with Lovecraft as an example, I have no problem enjoying his ideas while also considering his bigotry despicable, even when it's part of the writing. The money I spend to read his stories isn't benefiting him and doesn't go towards supporting anything terrible happening today.
On a related note I'm sometimes a little uncomfortable with "cleaning up" old art by editing it, which seems to be happening more and more. Sometimes it can be clearly justified; there are situations where it will be too hurtful to people, and sometimes you don't want to normalise certain things when there's no opportunity for context. But it's also important to remember that those things *were* once widespread and normalised, and why our views have changed.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all counts, actually. For problematic people I will either buy second hand or use the library. Your thoughts on Lovecraft are spot on. I’m also not a fan of updating older art and writing. I appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts.
Editing art for whatever reason is too similar to 1984 to be something I could feel good about.
How can we learn from the mistakes of the past if we alter the documents to hide the "mistakes"? Who alters a work of art? An artist? I do'nt think so. Artists respect art.
I'm from Germany where every movie is translated so the lazy and closed minds of my neighbors get what they are used to. Sauerkraut for example. And nice white fences. And concrete walls with guns pointing in the wrong direction.
So many great movies are so heavily edited that their meaning is profoundly changed - if you are able to compare it to the original. This is censoring. Or stupidity. But whatever it is: if art is so disturbing that nobody should consume it, you can index it. Everything else is changing facts so they fit the taste of the people who do that. I do not want art to be changed by people who are too stupid to understand it. I want the original source to make up my own mind. They try to stop critical thinking. They incapacitate the reader.
Those people are creating a made up reality of their own opinions. I do'nt care what they think. I want to know what the artist thinks. That's why I read books and not critics. They can tell me what they think. The have no right to forcefeed me their thoughts.
If we ask a million people from all over the world, of every age, of every orientation, what to change or delete we would have no art at all. No books, no paintings, no movies. Nothing. There is always somebody who dislikes something.
Morals and beliefs change all the time. We would not know anything about Rome if people would have edited every text that did not fit into their worldview for 2000 years. We destroy history if we do that because of some people with an inability to read about things they disagree with. This is not good.
Not even the communists did that. They created an illusion of their own special reality and time, but they did not change history.
People who cannot stand a different opinion or worldview should simply stop reading and write their own books. There they can write whatever they like. And learn what it feels like to be criticized for their thoughts. 🤣 Or maybe nobody wants to read those books because they are so boring and artificial.
I don't put people on pedestals at all...
Thats great! I’m glad. 🙂
I haven't actually watched the video yet, but in general I would ammend the text in the description to say "As a huge fan of Neil Gaiman's work" , instead of "As a huge Neil Gaiman fan". You know, just in case.
I definitely understand the sentiment, thank you, but I’ve been known as the guy that champions Gaiman as a person as well. I feel it would be disingenuous of me to amend it. I appreciate you thinking of me in that regard though. 🙂
@@BookishChasThis is really good. Changing this would be a move of a coward. It is no shame to admire somebody for his work and the good things he does.
He changed the game. Maybe we should give his new persona a new name to separate the one we all knew and liked from the one he hid and will be from now on. 🤣
I would like that. Aborigenees change their names to mark a change inside themselves. Why do we have to change anything? It's his move.
It's stuff like this that makes me kinda glad that most of my favorite writers are dead. Like, not happy that they're dead, but glad that they can't do shit like this and destroy their own images and legacies. Tbh I didn't peg Gaiman as being one to do this kinda thing, but I guess you never can tell. Sad. :(
Yeah I really feel what you’re saying. I had hoped he wasn’t one to do things like this either. I get what you’re saying about dead authors. They’re not around to do the despicable things.
I think wealth and fame create a lot of temptation and eventually a good man becomes corrupt. He probably came to expect too much from women after years of them throwing themselves onto him. Most writers don't enjoy much power and have no female admirers.
Yeah I can definitely see what you’re saying. I’m sure being in the spotlight got him used to a certain amount of attention.
I think he really began to believe himself as some sort of rock god of writers, and like true rock gods, thought he was entitled to have younger women fawn over him. It devastates me to say this, as I've been a Gaiman fan forever, but I think we all need to stop putting these people-unpleasant or not-on pedestals, where their egos can inflate to do awful things.
@EmlynBoyle I totally agree. It does seem like he got that “rock god” mentality. Good term for it.
I hadn't heard of this yet I'll have to look more into it but hopefully they're untrue
Yeah I wish they were, but unfortunately it seems to be mostly true. 😭
Seperating the art from the artist is one thing - giving them money is another. I won't buy new stuff from people who have done horrible things. Go second hand if you have to have it. I really wanted to play Hogwart's Legacy, but I'll be damned if I'll contribute to Rowlings war chest and ... unless things shake out very innocent, Gaiman has seen the last of my cash too.
I completely understand and respect that. That’s how I’m leaning too.
The thing that interests me as a semi-retired cognitive science and linguist is how easily Gaiman got away with this. It's already been pointed out that SFWA has known about his character for years. I was highly suspect of his character after I read two works by him, which was decades ago. I do enjoy his writing, but I have never purchased a book by him for the same reason I have never purchased a Snapple beverage in my life because of Rush Limbaugh.
When I heard of Gaiman's support for various causes, this fit. It is extremely common for people performatively to signal their virtue as a way of covering up the complete absence of these virtues. So, entirely apart from whether the allegations of sexual battery stand up in court, _e.g._ Gaiman's public performative pseudo-feminism convinced a lot of people he was a feminist, whereas his performance has always struck me as an expression of his contempt for women, which grew as he got away with it more and more. The archetype is the captain of the high-school football team who sexually batters the cheerleaders who, upon graduating and realizing that high-school status isn't all that, take it out on the majority of men whom they never would have noticed in high school. As a result, those of us who are blamed for the behavior of men such as Gaiman, whom we despise, develop a heightened sensitivity to such types. But when we try to point it out, we get called names for doing so.
This is borne out by the research I have seen on sexual battery going back to the 1980s, when I was on the faculty of a university with great libraries. Sexual battery is an extreme minority adaptation, but those who do things this way do it a lot. Nor are they always male; see Marion Zimmer Bradley. She has cogently been accused of abusing her daughter, Moira Greyland, who wrote, "The first time she molested me, I was three. The last time, I was 12, and able to walk away … She was cruel and violent, as well as completely out of her mind sexually. I am not her only victim, nor were her only victims girls." Nevertheless, Wikipedia and other established sources of _revealed narrative_ stop short, focusing primarily and sometimes only on the idea that Bradley did not prevent her husband from doing sexual abuse. This bias contributes to the process by which the Gaimans of the world get to do so much before they are stopped. To quote Marilyn French, "women are great and men are awful," excepting only particular men, who are really the ones doing the awful things in fact. This, too, is a _sine qua non_ of sexism; even if one defines the term not to include statements about men, it hurts women, including Gaiman's accusers.
I certainly believe in due process and the presumption of innocence, but it is evidently an unpopular opinion. It doesn't happen in the U.S. courts, which put pressure on people to sign pleas, sometimes _in terrorem_ including by physical torture and written death threats (you can see the one they issued me in the little circle to the upper left, but I already know nobody cares about such things). 97% of federal and 95% of all convictions are secured by these means. Not to mention the many political convictions over bogus charges, which throughout the last decade have been increasing for political imprisonment given that people are starting to realize that the War on Drugs is not only political but destructive. So we're going back to the _Good Ole Daze_ of Emmett Till, and if you want to see how that is viewed, you need look no further than _Against Our Will_ by Susan Brownmiller.
Thank you for sharing your perspective from your background. I’ve never picked up on any of this from what I knew about him or read from his books.
@@BookishChas I very much appreciate your thanks, ❤️, and graciousness. I do not have access to any of Gaiman's work, nor shall I buy any, and I only have four precious slots for inter-library loan. Still, if concrete examples would help, I might be able to come up with some if reminded. I did write a longer explanation in the comments of a video to @baldbookgeek where I gave an example from _The Graveyard Book._ I can think of some stories, but I cannot remember the names of them.
@deadman746 oh ok no pressure at all. I take your word for it. I’m sure your expertise gives you a certain window into things like that in books you’ve read.
@@BookishChas I don't know how much my expertise helps me other than articulation.
Experience, yes. Without getting too personal, the Gaimans of the world have always been more of a threat to me than perhaps to others. I also must admit that I had to spend many deliberate years learning how to detect toxic women, and I had significantly to rely upon lesbians and bisexual women for many insights.
So no superiority or inferiority is implied here. Different people have different experiences and environments; that's all. You are probably better at detecting pathologies in others that affect you personally but not me.
@deadman746 oh ok fair enough. I can imagine LGBTQ people would be very helpful in pointing out toxic individuals for sure. I think experiences enhance our expertise in certain areas, but everyone has different experiences and backgrounds that play into that, so I definitely hear what you’re saying.
Always sucks to see when one of your favorite people get accused or found guilty of something. But yes, I agree, I think I'm good at separating the art from the artist. I understand when other people can't though. Glad you made this video, cuz I was wondering what your thoughts would be. I'm glad you'll still get to enjoy his writing.
Yes me too. I think it will be harder sometimes because I’ll be thinking about the scandal, but I think I can still enjoy the books. Thanks Jake!
May I tell you something, Chas? You are not guilty. You are not the one who should feel the guilt. It is not yours. It's his. He did that. He already gave a statement. This is not about consent. This is about betrayal and next level manipulation. Plus the minor crimes they can hold him responsible for.
He put himself on a pedestal. He dreamed himself into a godlike being. All we did was believe his stories. His huge dreams. Multiversal, endless dreams. He turned our dreams into a nightmare and now he makes us feel guilty for the things he did. Gaslighting does that to you. And he knows exactly what he is doing.
He invented the ultimate nightmare. He invented those horrible beings to make us believe he cannot be like that. Never ever.
For me he turned himself into the Corinthian. The only virtual psychopath who really makes my blood freeze. He ate our eyes, he made us blind, he looked through the eyes of his victims, felt their fear, felt their emotions, felt their pain. And did it anyway. Because he cannot feel anything. Dead inside. All fake. A vampire.
Silas is not him. He is not Bagheera. He is nothing. Hollow. Just big dreams behind masks. Facade. That's him. A being too afraid to die, hoping Death takes care. Always Death takes care of the ones tired of the life they chose.
I don't feel guilty. All I feel now is contempt. After I survived another shock of being so blind, believing a liar.
Don't fall for his mindgames. Just don't. It's just magic. Really dark magic. Some call it psychology. Some call it gaslighting. He calls it magic. And so do I. It is his language. He is not only sick. He is a megalomaniac. Endless and eternal. An all encompassing egotrip to make us think he is somebody he is so much not.
We will all survive this. I'm not so sure about him.
He cursed himself with the Sandman. Maybe he has enough power that his wishes come true. Then he will die by the hand of his sister. Does he have one? Or was there somebody he put above himself, somebody who should kill him when everything comes crashing down? When the dreaming crumbles a second time ...
Feel hugged. I know exactly what it feels like. Like losing a brother to the dark side. With no hope of turning him around and make him see. No hope of change.
We know deep inside that the victims tell the truth. We know that this is just the tip of the iceberg. If he could do this, he is such a coward and liar that there will be more. So much more. This is so dark and he was able to hide it.
But it is not our fault. Let me do my magic: I command you to think the right thing. The blame is his. The guilt is his. He did that. He betrayed us all.
His lies are so good that we fell for them. Naive maybe, but not guilty of anything. His stories are true. He hid the truth in plain sight. Those are the worst liars.
I forgave myself. I forgive you. Now it's your turn. You may forgive yourself. Please.
Do not let him win his sick game. Counterspell his magic. We believed his books. And they are true. The lie is his life, his reality. The things he hid from everybody. Not our fault. Not our mistake.
He is a master in deception. And he can plant his words and images into our minds. Make us believe what he wants us to. Inception. Mindgames.
Free yourself from his magic. He has no power. Lies are hollow, in reality Morpheus is just an empty shell. He has no true power. Just the dreams he planted into our brains.
He did that. This little piece of manure mindfogged us all. That's why we are all so shocked. He destroyed our world. Our dreaming. But that's where he lives. He destroyed himself, too.
I don't care what he is able to hide with his power and money. His guilt is not from this world. There are no laws for what he did. He will face his judgement elsewhere. Neverwhere maybe.
Anubis will judge him. The furies will hunt him. All the powers he conjured will play with him and show him where his place is in a multiverse that punishes lies.
He knows that. He is nothing but an impostor, playing with things far beyond his power. He doomed himself. He will burn in his personal hell.
Do not join him. He deserves his own medicine. He is hiding and trembling and trying to escape the fates. But the idiot cursed himself. Well done, Lord of Dreams, Prince of Stories, Shaper of Forms. Your masks will come down. In this world or another. You cannot hide forever. You need blood. Sacrifices. Gods need people who believe in them, remember?
He is nothing but the oneeyed king of the blind. A con artist without his partner in crime. A god without power.
He will fall. And somebody else will take the crown. Dreams cannot die. But this incarnation has lost his helmet. No spine, no facet eyes, no protection. Good luck without that.
This is how I dispell magic. Telling myself the truth, without fear. Keep the dreams, lose the dreamer. He is not endless. He is just a spineless impostor playing god. Learn from him what he shares. Reject what he does not. He did not share his shame, his guilt, his cruelty. He projected all that into the books.
Do not take those feelings, these are all his. He wants us to take them, to absolve him, to feel the pain so he does not have to. Do not do this. Let him feel it. He deserves that.
All the bottled up feelings will destroy him. That is his punishment. And the fates will deliver. They always do. No laws required. It does not matter if they find him guilty in reality. His reality is dreams. And they will die, one at a time. Until they are all gone. Until only the librarian is left. With no books to share.
What a stupid little lying idiot. Nobody will believe him anymore. It's already too late. The damage is done. The rats will flee, the ship is sinking. With a huge, endless, eternal, Neilshaped hole. Sounds like Snape. But that one was no coward. That one was real. He is not. And everybody who matters knows that now.
Thanks! I don’t feel guilt for putting him on a pedestal. Just sad that I did, and maybe if I hadn’t I wouldn’t be as shocked as I was by this. The persona’s celebrities create are definitely good masks though, you’re right.
@@BookishChas Actually I'm pretty good to see through masks and personas, especially with people who write stories. They all write themselves into them. Sometimes several times.
Neil does. Multi-faceted personality, one character is not enough to mirror him. I knew that. And I did not understand what his persona means. There are no facets, it's too perfect. It is all flat. A hollow shell.
But the writings are not reality. I can write really scary things because I know really scary people very intimately and read countless books with similarly scary people, written by authentic authors who know what they are talking about. Some are victims. Some are perpetrators. Some are both, like my brother.
And of course there is darkness inside of me, too. My sin is wrath. I am so furious. Always was. They tried to drive me crazy, of course I am. I have every right to be.
And with the right trigger - people or systems who threaten my existence, financially or physically - they can unleash this.
My true self fears nobody. I was dead, what else can they do to me? I have no flight response in really dangerous situations. There was never any possibility to escape. Fight or turn to stone. That's all I learned.
I cannot stop wrath, but I can direct it. It can scare people who witness this, but I never did that to innocents. Just predators who think they found a helpless victim. I always embraced this ability.
But now I understood that this is not me. Because of the light this scandal shed into a big black brothershaped hole. This rage is him. He does that. I learned that from him. Programmed into me as a good response to a threat.
It is not. I have so many other strategies to defend myself without threatening innocent bystanders. It's like Geralt, the butcher of Blaviken. He is too scary and efficient when he fights. Too fast, too strong, too everything.
A cruel, cool cat. A big one. He is Bagheera. Dancing with his prey. No wasted movement, fast as lightning, a one hit killer. Not human, not monster, just a big cat.
They fear me because I shatter their illusion of me. Of what women can do. I can be really scary. 🤣 And loud. Not so good for a woman. You don't make friends with that.
I will retrain myself. I am not my brother.
You see the darkness you experienced yourself. I see it in others. But I did not see it in him because Morpheus is like my brother. My biggest blind spot. Not in every aspect, but enough to trigger the same response.
His dark side is Morpheus, I never had any doubt about that. And he switches avatars. Morpheus punishes the abuse of Calliope. Of course he does. He wants us to believe that. That is one of his lies.
Writing things down can be therapy, a cure for pain, a way to understand and let go.
He did not do that. He used Morpheus to revel in his pain, his revenge, his feelings of power and to blow them into epic proportions. Exactly like my brother.
In a way I know him like I know my brother. I see the differences and the similarities. He cannot hide from me anymore. I will read his stories again to shed light to every facet of his hidden side. To understand what I could not see and why. To not fall into the same trap again.
Other stars still shine for me. With no surprises for decades. It was just him.
I know what it feels like to live in a different universe, with next to nobody else around you. I can feel that loneliness in others. He has that. There is so much good there. He invented Death, too. It is hard to let somebody go who can do that. Who understands Delirium. Almost nobody understands her. He can write changes so subtle, so imperceptable for normal people ... Death turning into a human being in The high Cost of Living. I love that part of him.
But to know her so well and make her kill Morpheus? Cruel. Soulless. Heartless. Selfish next level.
Never meet your heroes.
Very true
After I watched MJ's video on this subject, I thought about how you would take this news and if you would address it. I know that you were a fan of Neil Gaiman and it's completely fine for you to talk about your favourite author and praising their work. I haven't really enjoyed his work on the same level as you, simply thinking they were alright stories. Once again, we all have the right to be passionate about a author and their work. I hope that he is innocent but we shall see. I could write alot more but I won't. I will just say that I'm sorry this has happened to your favourite author.
Thanks so much David! I hope he’s innocent too, but unfortunately I kind of doubt he is. I will still read and enjoy the books, but yes it’s very disheartening. I hope the victims get heard in this.
I hear you but now after hearing John Scalzi and you mention this, I think its erroneous to say that the rub lies in putting people like Gaiman on pedestals. The shock comes from people like Neil Gaiman who outwardly decide to be bastions of empathy and support and inclusion go on about their private lives hurting people in this fashion. That is the shock, one that is absolutely valid to have. That they feel they can go about doing these things to hurt people and get away with it is the biggest betrayal of all. We aren't talking about Joe Schmo in a domestic abuse situation. Everyone who has lived long enough on earth knows people are capable of these personal atrocities. We're talking about a public figure, a person on the vanguard of the good, someone who in that position should not only conduct themselves in a more dignified manner but absolutely should know better than to outwardly damage human beings that look up to them. I think lionizing people has nothing to do with the hurt that's been dealt from men and women in this position. But other than that point very well said.
Thank you very much, and your point is very well said too. I appreciate you.
I think it's a bit of both.
On the one hand, great powers come with great responsibilities: if you're given a platform, and you use that platform to hurt others, then you don't deserve to keep that platform. Simple as that.
On the other hand, we shouldn't completely turn a blind eye to the type of parasocial relationships and fan behaviour that encourage people to think that someone's public persona mirrors who they are as a person. Public personas appear to be perfect for a reason, and if we keep looking for saints to give overwhelming power to, then we will always be disappointed.
The Gaiman story (and that it's not particularly uncommon in the celebrity world) should lead to real measures to keep the power of celebrities in check, and to encourage fans to think differently about creators. When they meet fans at a convention, they are working. When they appear on camera, they are working. When they send a nice message to the world via any type of media, they are working.
Someone aggressively hitting on you while they are at work, or using their public image to coerce you into sex, should raise a ton of red flags.
The opposite is also true, and fans who feel entitled to a celebrity's time body or image because they happened to be crossing the same street is also wrong. No one should aggressively get in someone's face because they saw them on TV and think they somehow know them well.
@schmohobzsia7216 very well said. I like your focus on the celebrity being at work, and work has a certain persona associated with it.
IF
Yes, if…
@@BookishChas yeah I looked at his case and I see a lot of cash grab, these girls never filed a police report when they were so called raped and most of the incidents happened over twenty to ten years ago. Yeah I don't believe all the so called victims of this case because if Neil Gaiman wasn't rich they would've just kept their mouths shut.
People can be victims even if no laws were broken. Victims don't necessarily get their day in court. There is no doubt in my mind that he did these things. The only punishment he will ever have, most likely, is that people will stop admiring him.
That's what he wants. Admiration. Gods without prayers die. He knows that. His facade is the most important thing for him.
It does not matter that much to me if he is able to pay and manipulate his way out of court. The damage is already done. What I wish for is that the world will recognize his true face. That everyone who reads his books knows what is hidden between the lines. A very disturbing view of women. So we can distance ourselfes from those views. Otherwise these views might sneak their way into our brains and stain our own perception and worst case compromize our moral compass.
What happens now is very revealing. There is the silence of the lambs. Just a few obscure RUclips channels. They don't matter that much to him, people forget so fast nowadays.
No word from his side, no articles, nothing. That's what he wants. Do not talk about fightclub.
We should talk about it. No hatespeech, but we should express our feelings. Like this channel did. He obviously lacks some important ones. Empathy for instance. Its all about his own precious feelings. If somebody else matters is now unclear to me. That is the proof I want. Not in court, but in some shape or form. From him. Only he can proof if he has empathy at all. Or if this is all just a facade.
But this will probably not happen. Because this would be an acknowledging of wrongdoing. He will not do that. Not if he can maintain this silence. There will not be an apology. In his mind he already did that. With those really disturbing messages he wrote.
Talking helps the victims. Critical questions instead of admiration. There are enough answers to prove a severe lack of empathy. It is all about him.
Oh yes, Salome I agree. Victims are victims without their day in court. I just wish they could get that to get some concrete justice, but you’re probably right that it won’t happen.
He's not God, C'mon!
Correct. Never said he was. 🙂
Sorry old boy, I didn't realise I directed that comment to you
Oh ok no worries, friend. It’s all good. Your comment isn’t wrong. A lot of people equate celebrities to gods.
Indeed, and a sad thing it is too, everybody's shit shinks as the saying goes
@bobbynomates958 yes that’s very true.
After JK Rowling I will never again make the mistake of assuming the integrity of a person I don't know. I hate that this has happened, but I am also reminding myself that I do not know these people and I don't know what they are capable of. It sucks but victims need to be listened to and believed. Good video.
Thank you so much! I hate that it happened too, but it reinforces just what you said. We really don’t know these people like we hoped we did. I hope you have a wonderful day. 😊
The five charges against Gaiman are Stupid Times Five.
They're called gold diggers.
You can't wait a decade and call yourself a victim of anything.
I think there’s more to this than gold digging, but I can see your perspective. A lot of people go after celebrities for money, but I don’t think this is that.
ITs unfortunate to see people like Gaiman victimized by leeches
Whatever they are, I believe them. Always had bad vibes about him.
Oh ok interesting. I lean toward the victims too, but I’ve never had bad vibes about him prior to this.
It's fashionable to badmouth J.K. Rowling, isn't it? Makes you look virtuous to your audience (which is the purpose, isn't it?). But really it just reveals that you have a superficial understanding of what's happening. Anyone who has looked into the transgender issue to any degree could never take the one-sided whiter-than-white stance that you adopt.
I’m not trying to look virtuous. I’m just trying to accept people as they are. Something she’s not willing to do apparently.
@@BookishChas That is so obtuse. Women have the right to feel safe in the spaces reserved for their biological sex. Men do not belong there. That was Rowling's beef. It was totally reasonable.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that I believe trans women are still men. I don’t believe that, and we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Rowling can believe whatever she wants, and that is her right. I don’t have to agree with it or support it.
@@BookishChas If you believe trans women aren't men, let me ask you a more nuanced question: does a trans woman have a male or female skeleton?
@darrylsloan I honestly don’t know. Interesting question. However I don’t think that’s relevant to the particular topic of this video, which wasn’t even primarily about Rowling’s views to begin with. And in respect of sticking to the topic, I’m not going to go further down this rabbit trail. I appreciate you having the dialogue with me though.
Unless it is a stranger on a dark street at night and an incident occurs,... Call the police! I hate these public exposes' Sex should a private affair. If you have been taken advantage of, enlist the help of family...
First of all, the public wants to assume guilt from day one.
It is as if getting involved with a woman is a path fraught with pitfalls.
You’re right about the public automatically assuming guilt, but there is more to it than just that. When “private affairs” involve assault and predatory behavior, I firmly believe it should come to light. There’s a certain segment of the public that wants to place blame on the women, and that’s just not right in my opinion. Victims deserve to be heard no matter what gender. I appreciate you watching and taking time to respond.
Stay away from unstable women, men. Sad to see this happen to Neil.
I’m sad this happened too, but it’s not a problem with the women I don’t think.
Nahh, I completely agree we need to hear both sides on this and shouldn't assume he's guilty, but in the same way it's weird to already assume Neil Gaiman is the victim here. If what they are saying is true, then it wouldn't matter even if they were emotionally unstable
@@PaddeeBA yes indeed
Nothing happened to Gaiman. He happened to be an accomplished deceiver. That's for sure. And he definetely happened to the women. He did not deny that.
You can substract everything else from the equation and it still looks very icky.
The problem is, he seems to especially search for "unstable" women.
Bury the lede much? I’m five minutes in and you’ve told me nothing. Can’t imagine your writing is any better. I’ll look elsewhere for facts. Oh, BTW: putting people on pedestals? I got over that by 17. You seem a touch older.
I didn’t feel it was my place to go into great detail. If people want all the gory details it’s easy to find. I am older yes, but no one is immune. Unless you’re perfect that is.