SMITE: Should beginner gods be high tier?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- This video server as a platform for discussion about the topic if beginner gods should necessarily also be a ble to be high tier gods. Examples of gods across all classes are mentioned with a short explanation.
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Personally I would like all gods to be viable, these aren't just statistics these are characters you can learn about outside of smite or you might just resonate with their kit. I'd rather play who I like over who will win
I would argue that every god should be viable as either an A-tier pick or a niche pick. Hi-rez seems to float between wanting a particular god to be first pick first ban every game, and wanting that god to be unusable. But, the ideal place for a gods, especially new ones would be somewhere around the level of Awlix. Good in the right hands, fairly easy to comprehend but with a high skill celing, yet very rarely considered overpowered due to a kit with distinct strengths (Picking off a lone target in a fight, comboing with knock-ups, and offering early damage) and weaknesses (hard to land the knock-up, low aoe versus other dedicated teamfight assassins, has issues from behind.) Although it seems with Er Lang Shen, that they're moving towards the tons of utility, defense, and damage with no weaknesses route.
Erlang shen is not naturally all 3 of those things though. You can balance his items to get all 3. His damage can be decent and his defense can be decent but as with other gods if you push one then other suffers a little. His utility is obviously from his kit and possibly his items but he feels extremely squishy if you don't build a protection item or two. He steamrolls really hard though. His Ult gives him that heal which is pretty big but it also takes 4 seconds and if people see him pop the ult they tend to gang up on him if they can. Obviously this is different in Conquest because he will prbly be in Jungler or Solo role but in all the other game modes he feels very squishy compared to the other warriors. I have seen a lot of people play him as a assassin rather than a warrior because of his kit.
The problem with that is when you have a hard God (say Ullr) just as viable as a easy god like Neith then who do you think everyone is gonna play? Why play Ullr when you get the same results as Neith but 10x easier. Same scenario if Ullr is just a little bit stronger than Neith.
AlbertClockwork
Because ullr has a better late game than neith?
deathpyre42 In a state where everyone is viable on the same level that would not be a factor
I agree with everyone besides Hercules; his main combo (2 - 1) can be difficult to get used to, and his heal requires certain situations in order to be effective.
Chaac is my favorite warrior, so if he was buffed and suddenly became a top tier pick, I wouldn't mind. However, I'll enjoy playing as him and my other favorites regardless.
Nah the gods are fine but you should of mentioned Ra, though his ultimate is hard to hit his clear is amazing and has heals for days, 2nd I want to put forth the meta idea that some beginner gods or even classes such as the hunter right now can be easily picked up by anyone and just point in fire, There are a lot of easy gods that change alot depending on how you build them. so keep the meta in mind :) ohh and yes I 100% agree that loki is very easy to pick up, going for all gods mastered 1 I used him and it took me 2 games to start dominating people because of his easy clear and constant gank potential...Love the vid Duke keep it up!
I mean the discussion of high tier vs low tier is pretty odd in a game like Smite because I feel like it is not a static situation and that if you are at the highest level of play where you would know for example who you are laning against, you may pick a "lower tier" god because it has a favorable matchup in this situation. At the same time, I think Smite is in a really good state of balance (or maybe inbalance would be a better term) in that all gods have at least SOMETHING good about them that you could, with the help of a team, overcome any matchup, even if you are up against a higher tier god as a lower tier. Of course this changes as you get lower down the skill totem pole but in ideal situations a god's tier is extremely dependent on 1) matchup vs opposing god 2) coordiantion with team and 3) your own personal skill.
Well, technically the beginner gods are the free ones...
Also, i know you were struggling a bit with "easy" warriors but, the 2 that you mentioned are the only 2 warriors I just couldn't get used to playing. Not alone in this either. Warriors are utility based, in that aspect Chuck and Herc are hard to play effectively for many beginners. Most new players just just go for Bellona since she's so easy to get results with, even if they don't user her to her full potential. But, since she's the highest tier warrior around, that kinda throws the whole argument out the window.
As much as i enjoy chaac i have to agree with you, in lategame teamfights you're practically just a walking silence and nothing more. But buffing a god like the ones mentioned could end pretty bad since most of them are easy to pickup. So pretty much everybody can be successful with them. In my opinion it's okay as it is. I mostly play casual modes like 3v3 and arena where some of those gods are more viable than in conquest so i can have fun with them too.
I get what you're saying, and Loki is an excellent example of a god that doesn't need buffed because he would be game breaking if he was brought to competitive levels, it's not his numbers but his kit that limit his competitive viability.
I completely disagree with Hercules and Sylvanus being 'beginner' gods though, while Hercules isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world his kit is pretty difficult to master to a degree of viability. Sylvanus is honestly just completely underpowered 90% of the time though, I think this is because a good sylvanus player can make a team rage quit but if he misses his roots and pulls constantly he becomes trash. I really don't understand how Sylvanus made it on this list at all, I guess his damage is easy to put out and he is the type of guardian that if you were being carried you could just put your mana trees down and heal and ult on call, but realistically he is not an easy guardian.
But I understand what you mean, but personally I think very few gods fit in the spectrum of what you're talking about, Loki is honestly the best example because he is very viable in every game mode at non-competitive levels of play.
I think Ra is easier beginner god than Anubis because of his great clear and the fact that he can blind foes and can heal up and he gets speed buff after using abilities helping him disengage at lower levels and I don't think I've ever seen a Ra on ranked games.
Skadi is the easiest:
1.Send Kaldr after them.
2.Throw piercing cold for double damage.
3.If not dead, use ult.
Wait, I thought Kaldr was the god :p
+George Deem Kaldr, Dogges of winter
Kaldr is the ADC, Skadi is the support.
Except beginner Skadi players always get Kaldr killed immediately and he spends the whole game at one or two health points, and there goes half her damage when she might need it. Learning to keep Kaldr alive for later use makes you a better Skadi player immediately, since you don't have those downtimes where you can't do jack shit for damage and you're waiting for your doggo to come back to life.
ahahaha u made my day
every god should be competitively viable in my opinion, if a god won't bring anything to the table in high levels of play, it's not a well designed god
But that is impossible, cause there will always be gods who can do similar things, better or worse, and meta affects all gods in different ways.
So if u have gods with similar playstyle, usually some or one of them will fit better in the actual meta taking in count how their skills work, numbers, cc, mobility, also how they fit in certain teamcomps, what items are good or bad for them and if that items are strong or weak at the moment, etc etc...
Having a 100% balanced gods, items, game in general, is impossible, that will be constantly changing as the game goes.
+MetalHammer gods like: Odin, Ne zha, Thor, Awilix, will never be out of the meta because they bring something unique to their kit that work well for different team comps, if everyone had a unique thing to their kit that would work for specific team comps, then the game would be balanced
+MetalHammer in that case you try to amplify the strengths that don't exist in the other god(s). I'm not saying that every god has to be competitively viable, but it should be what hirez, or any game dev for that matter, strives towards
Kelmend Muriqi Even if a god has unique features, he can be in or out of the meta whenever the game changes. If items that god use get nerfed or buffed, that will affect him. If some of their skills get nerfed or buffed, that obviusly will affect him. Even if changes doesn´t directly affect a concrete god, that can kick him out of the meta cause other gods will get played more, or the other way around.
There are a lot of different facts, u can´t have a 100% balanced game, but obviusly they have to work trying to make game more balanced and offer more options in terms of what gods, items, actives, strategies, etc u can use.
+MetalHammer they will still be viable in specific team comps, there is basically no one else that can do what Odin does with his ultimate, combo that with a Zeus and they will get destroyed. Awilix will always be viable because of her ultimate can pull gods with jumps, combo with sobek, he bo, etc etc. I think you know what I'm trying to say here
The only problem is that players tend to stick to those gods even after hiting lvl 30. Accounts with 10000 worshipers on Loki, or people who play only Anubis, and let's not talk about Neith, the majority of Neiths are dumb
lmao
+Vishnu Nair Neith is easy, but mastery 10 Neiths are always shit, a few days ago a Neith was destroying my team, I told them she's dumb, I went there and killed her "See guys? Dumb!"
+Vishnu Nair I've been playing Smite for almost three years and I have a mastery 6 Neith, I don't even play her
+Vishnu Nair wait people play neith? Why? Never liked her kit because it didn't offer enough punch and to be happy jest she just felt so dirty to play. A lock on ultimate? A "fuck you" leap backwards? Get out of here neith you are just so annoying.
P.S. I'm not salty after being killed in my fountain numerous times by her hot. Definitely irrelevant.
P.P.S and it doesn't have anything to do with me wanting hunter and being overruled by the insta locking neiths who feed.
I have a 1 neith because I think she cheap as fuck
honestly i think ares should have been on the list, his kit is extremely easy to understand and he also has kill potential which newer player like. Also no mention of scylla? She has probably the simplest kit in the game along with a ton of damage
Both Ares (chains) and Scylla (ult) require a lot better aim to be played to a decent potential compared to these characters. I've seen so many people pick Scylla "because OP" and lose the game for the team due to whiffing 80% of the ults.
DukeSloth while i do have to agree with your point on scylla, i gotta say that ares can do his job in a team fight just by blinking in and pressing 4. Also you point out that ares chains are hard to hit but they are just as difficult to hit as an anubis stun or kukulkan 1
edupstv That's true, but Goobis and Kukul can still do a lot without those abilities.. Ares without his chains is basically an ult-bot.
DukeSloth well unless he has gem of isolation goobis' damage is pretty easily avoidable
+DukeSloth you forgot to mention Ra...
Gotta say I disagree with Herc being a beginner character. Due to the nature of his damaging abilities, he's not someone you can instantly pick up and play. His 1 has a very small hitbox, and is simultaneously his primary damage ability and his only escape, his 2 takes a good amount of getting used to to hit the pull with the small hitbox and cast time. His heal is also something that takes knowledge and practice to make good use of, it's not like Chaac heal or Tyr heal where it's very straight forward and easy to understand.
Exactly what I was thinking, Herc is probably one of the hardest warriors...
While I completely agree with your statement on Herc, I don't so much agree with Tyr. Once you learn him, sure he is great. But for beginners, not so much. Most will not know how to lvl him. His clear is a bit awkward for some. His stance switching can be cumbersome for new players. And so on.
Other than Chaac, I would say that Wukong is one of the better beginner warriors. Sure his 3, can be considered a bit complicated for the first few times, but he has easy clear, tons of escapes, and a great "oh no I fucked up" ult. What he lacks in a standard heal, he makes up for in the rest of his kit. Plus, he is just fun.
Wooaaaaah burh,dont get that far....Herc just prees 3,get from 100 to 20% health,10 secs later you get all that back in with SOG....
COD maybe?
death-by-ego I think you misunderstood my comment, I wasn't talking about Tyr as a whole, moreso just his heal, and how simple his heal is compared to Herc's heal. Tyr's is simply "hit people, get healed", Herc's is more complex. Tyr as a whole I agree is a fairly complex character.
Hercules literally consists of pressing two, then pressing one if it hits, occasionally pressing three, and pressing four if they're getting away with low health. I don't see how you could make any argument for him being hard.
The small hitbox on his one is irrelevant since he'll always use it after his two. Mastering his heal isn't particularly important to do passably on him, as long as you're at least getting some healing of out it.
Loki can't do anything in ranked team battles, he's a high single damage God, good for 1v1 encounters only. In ranked Joust he can't compete due to the lack of ability to gank, also being in wide open spaces is bad for him. In conquest he lacks team battle support because he's so squishy, and single target damage, you have to play very carefully. I can't say for sure or not if he needs a buff or he's just not meant for ranked play. I'm sure some people can play him in ranked and do well, good for them, I can't. Susano destroys me every time. Perfect duel God though. I really like the character, sure he's easy to use , but he's hard to master. That's my 1 cent on Loki. please don't crucify me.
how to play loki in conquest: Step 1. get your transcendence stacked up a bit and get your warrior tabi online.
Step 2. proxy farm all the way to their phoenix so that your minions destroy the enemy tower
Step 3. you are now superfarmed for proxy farming cause you don't lose any xp or gold when proxy farming at the phoenix when you back to Base and go back to lane, so now you can 1 shot pretty much anyone
Step 4. if the enemy sololaner rotates during any time, warn your teammates and just split push
Step 5. ez phoenix kill
Cocococonut
I PERSONALLY think Anubis should be buffed. If anything, shift the kit around for a escape. Maybe like Vulcan, so a small dash.
Plague is so weak when it comes to late because you're just focusing on comboing his 2, 3 and 4. Sure it assists when his ult is down, but what's so good about standing still without being CC immune. The only safe time to use it is if someone is pushing you while you're on top of your 3.
Maybe. MAYBE. Chaac, he got his limited recently, but compared to other warriors (or basically all solo laners) he lacks both in his mid to late game. His axe throw and heal are amazing, but his bootleg spin to win is ass unless you build a heavy damaging warrior. And half the players hardly know he has a small knock up.
As for Loki and Bastet...
Remove them.
Both are very, very, VERY cancerous.
I won't argue about Anubis, but I would say his complexity is understanding the game, not understanding him (although i've seen people who flat out don't understand him, which is sad). A good anubis isn't one that can do his combo (landing his 2 is pretty important, regardless), it's one who makes smart decisions about zoning and engage/disengage
I don't think Smite has enough characters to purposely design some to be bad, it is ok to have a low skill floor, but they should all be playable at higher tiers if you take the time to master them. Nothing is less fun then having your time wasted as a new player.
#MakeRaGreatAgain
#Raaaaamerica
Hey Dukesloth, Huge fan of your work, Keep it up. Even though I recenlty Signed Up and Subscribed to you, I watched your videos by the time I started Playing Smite in 2015. I didn't know what to do and how to build, your guides made me a better player, Thank you for that.
As for the video and your question; All the beginner gods shouldn't be necessarily also be able to be high tier gods. Because it will hinder the gameplay. Also to make some of them High tier, we might have to change one or two abilities to make those High tier. They are good for learning the game and relatively easy to use and land their skills (well there are some exceptions but you get the point).
P.S But I think Sylvanus needs some work. Sure He has a strong early game presence but not very effective on Setups or in means of hard CC. He desperately needs better cc or some initiation/escape skill
Thanks a lot for the feedback! :)
I want the chicken top tier again :(
Rakakakakakaka
Ra-merica should have his own Teir.
Chicken Teir ladies and gentlemen.
Its a very interesting video, I personally don't think that a god has to be hard to play for beginners for it to be viable for competitive play. However I think gods like Anubis and loki are just impossible to balance due to their kit.
Another point is that most of the gods that you pointed out are very single target based and have nothing to offer for teamfights, something which for low levels is not very important. People just run around going for kills, so its normal that single target gods will do better in lower levels.
Gods like loki can never be good competitively because all they can do for their teammates is split push, which actually screws them because they are constantly playing a 4v5. His current kit just cant work, no matter how much you buff it.
And gods like Anubis have too little mobility and unless you give them insane amounts of damage, their current kits also don't work.
So I think that its fine to have some gods like loki and Anubis to stay in lower levels as the only way to make them viable is to give them stupid amounts of damage, making them broken. The only way to fix them is to change their kit a bit.
However some gods like Kukulkan, sylvanus and chaac could use some small buffs to make them viable competitively and not OP in lower levels.
Y'know I feel like adding a cripple to Kuku's Zephyr would be interesting. Not a straight movement-stopper, so they can still walk out of the following tornado, but it'd give him interesting utility.
dragontyron I personally dont think zephyr is the problem. I think making slipstream a dash instead of a movement buff would be much better.
That'd be good too. I was just throwing ideas into the ether.
I completly agree with your point. I myself start to learn Smite with Neith, Sylvanus, Kuku, Chaac, and Loki combo. I pretty much love to play them. (Expect Loki, it's boring to ult in, hit with Hydra's, 3 + Hydra's, and there's the kill, so you can walk out in stealth.) And one of my friend main Artemis from the begin. (He is diamond with her)
Duke, I play since BETA from my my profile picture you can probably see i love anubis. I base every game i play of him, in WoW i was a worgen(werewolf) death knight(necromancer in plate armor with a 2h sword), in RTS games i play the most egyptian like race most of the time, in mech games i always try to make an anubis like bot and in RPG/MMO games i always try to be a necromancer preferably an half animal race. EVERY game i play in a way that i am as anubis as possible even with movies etc my favorite character gets decided by anubisness. So when smite got announced back then i fell in love with him, i could FINALLY play the guy himself in a competitive multiplayer game! So as someone who bases his whole entertainment value on anubis how do you suppose i felt when i hit 30 and began dieing. And even now when i play him sometimes and i die because im slow as shit i still feel bad. There is no choice for me in a game when i can play anubis but smite basically says i can play anubis but i actually cant, i just want to play my favorite god as he is more then a character in smite to me i hope you understand my opinion. Btw i had 89% of played gods anubis until i hit 30.
I think they should be weaker but not so weak that they're never picked up in ranked or higher level play.I'd like to see them slightly below the point of balance but not so low that they're just not viable.Because if that's the case,what's going to happen is that the new players who pick up easier gods would have to ditch their mains and try something else,so what we would get is a new player who can't play any gods that are decent in the current meta because the god he mains is now not viable at all.
They should keep the easier gods around A or A- and more mechanically demanding gods in A or A+ so that the player who knows the game and has more experience would get a slight edge over the player who doesn't have much experience(Emphasis on "Slight").
Also we have to acknowledge the fact that power creep is increasing in smite in a way that A+ is the new A tier,so first and foremost hi-rez should be working on fixing that so that new players don't get frustrated because of new powerful gods,and games won because the enemy team had more op gods.
TL;DR Easier gods shouldn't be buffed higher than A tier,harder gods shouldn't be nerfed under A tier.Also HiRez should "Try" and release less broken gods.
Fought against a diamond loki the other day (he had over 10 thousand kills) and he called my brothers and I pussies because we were sitting in tower for most of the game. Mind you he had an Anubis and Skadi on his team. He also said 90% of smite players would much rather fight against a loki than against "tower campers" LOL. I don't even want to begin on how BS that logic is. And thats how you know he mains Loki.
The thing is, for me, that with these kind of gods (barring like Neith and Chiron) you can't buff them to viability without making them too strong. If we take Chaac for instance, he has such a big inherent flaw of not doing anything in the late game at all that he's never going to be a justifiable pick unless he is numerically too strong, and the same applies for the others, for instance Anubis is too easy to catch out, Kuku has absolutely no way of confirming his unconfirmable damage, Loki has no teamfight presence etc. Honestly in an ideal world these Gods could do with a rework in my opinion (even though like Anubis is one of my favourite gods in the game there's never going to be an ideal point of balance for him), but that's never going to happen because quite frankly not everyone is Level 30, so the best course of action would probably be to just leave the gods as they are
Smite has power creep, almost every God is viable to some extent, except for kuklukan, who is in every other way out classed by Scylla. And AMC, who is in every way out classed by skadi.
They need to focus on de oping gods to prevent power creep and make every god viable and not just new gods. Move the whole thing down a teir.
I see it that way. Most of this gods don't offer much room for improvement. You can pick them up, play one or two games and be already pretty decent. That's why they shouldn't be stronger. When mastering a god, knowing it's abilities etc. you should be rewarded. And not after two games with Anubis.
Personally, I would like as many gods as possible to be viable at high levels because variety makes for more interesting gameplay, but I know that's not entirely realistic. By design, some gods are going to be too unsafe or weird for high-tier play, despite being interesting characters with interesting kits.
Honestly that's where players come in to do the fun stuff if they play really well. Pro players running out-of-the-ordinary gods or team comps is one of my favorite things to watch, since they often play _really well_ despite their choice of god.
I think they should, as designers always try to make the power variations/ rankings of characters as close as possible, and the meta will shift naturally around that.
It would be intensely irritating to level with a main, feel proficient with that main, only to find out this character is barely viable in higher levels, or having people moan at you for picking them.
Not that I'm talking from experience...
Personally, I think what begginer gods need to be good at low levels and have a high skill cap is nuances in their kit. Stuff like Neith's broken weave is an excelent example because low level players usually won't use these things to their advantage, thus raising the skill cap for players that wish to take the character a little further and not changing much for those starting up.
Tl;dr
More nuances, less buffs.
The problem is that they're "bad" because for the most part they lack movement and movement is absolutely king in this game.
So they can never really be viable barring a rework that gives them movement, or a huge meta changing event (golden bow). Well, they can be buffed, but it generally won't help.
My first gods were Guan yu, Bastet, Kuku, Ymir, and Neith, now they are still Guan Yu, Awilix, Scylla, Sobek and Sol.
One god I'm thinking of is sol. Few months ago she was op as hell, with easy lane clear, heal, movement speed, fatalis and immunity in her kit, she was crazy.
I think it's ok to have some "beginner gods" in high tier. For instance, I think Nieth is a beginner god for the reasons you explain, but it's actually not that simple to make the best out of her kit. Her ult needs to be well aware of the map to use it correctly, and her positionning needs to be on point to use her passive.
You can agree or not with this, but the point is, I'm ok with beginner's gods in high tier as long as you need to actually master the god to use him to the fullest, even though you can do decently without having a clue.
I think you should replace sylvanus with Ymir here. Ymir's kit is just about as strong as it gets on the pleb tier, with near instant lane clear, ok initiation and peel with the 3, and great early aggression. Sylvanus on the other hand is so damn finicky with his pull and all around positioning that I wouldn't trust anyone below level 20 with him
I think it's fine to have some gods that teach the game and then fall off at higher levels, but some of them need a buff. Chaac I think is one that it could be possible to make better because he falls of so hard. I'm terrified of ranked but even in my casual games he does next to nothing which says to me unless these people are very close to the bottom of the skill pool chaac has nothing going for him. I think the biggest problem though with all of this is how to community as a whole reacts to players picking these beginner, mid to low tier gods. If they aren't viable in the SPL people get shit on for picking them a lot of the time. There are levels of play and it's hard for people to remember that. In most casual games, most anything can work in theory. But the point is is that beginner gods are fine and not every god in the game has to be viable at the pro/higher competitive level, but people need to chill about who picks who at what level.
Haven't really known any people who were horrible that played a lot of AMC but when I was starting if I saw a high mastery Neith I thought it would be a loss as they all sucked also played with someone who exclusively played Artemis and had no knowledge of how to play the game at all. Imo these beginner gods are more for stomping scrubs where you know what you are doing while they don't in these situations your insane damage gets you the win
personally i think as far as the list you spoke about all the gods are solid where they stand, that said bastet's ult by level 12 becomes negligable to anyone and just serves as a distraction or irritation. Perhaps giving her better scaling on her ult would serve her better in the long run but i wouldnt tinker with much else. slyvanus is a tricker aspect considering he has no escapes but doesnt deal much damage (do you make him a high damaging guardian or maybe change his passive to allow quicker movement speed the lower his health gets??)
I don't know what the right answer is.
I would be worried about beginners being able to perform at a top level only because they are picking easy gods. With less hard work, practice, knowledge, etc.
I still don't get why people are complaining about loki people say he's super easy and some migth be cooky and he is my main so yea but Personally he is easy in the beginning of when you start the game it self but on the higher levels it becomes more or should I say way more difficult and mastering him is pretty dam hard cause you need to think fast and there is different types of loki's trash talk or amazing God like I've seen lokis in arena with 0 kills and 27 deaths and it makes me laugh at how bad most of them are I'm not sayng I'm the best it's just funny in my opinion and I don't laugh at my enemies unless they do I just wave my hand and say hi
I agree with the loki pick. he was the assassin that was easiest to me in my nooby days. but I did play LoL and DOTA before smite. also I think that their should be low tier gods because there should be simple so they don't have to worry about their good and Just their gameplay
All Gods should be viable and in reality all Gods should be A tier or very close to it, as A tier stands for balanced, you want characters to be balanced so you have the entire God pool to pick from without fear of someone picking a way better God or your God being far too under performing to succeed with consistently.
Pretty much agree with everything here. Maybe not Sylvanus for the guardian pick though. I don't know, that one just feels off to me.
i find anubis hard to use, but will agree on kukulkan. on loki, i can't tell. the very first assassin god i used was thanatos and i find him easy enough to use. on guardians, i would recommend khumbakarna for his kit was really easy to use and understand. disagree on artemis though, i find her hard to use, i think cupid would be better. no idea on warrior class though. since i still find it hard to use them til now. >.
I agree with a lot of what you said to be honest and it all makes sense.
Also a reason for Guardians not being "beginner" friendly I think is part of the mentality of peeling for people and playing the true support role.
Most people just want to kill stuff and have the highest damage, which is fun but not as fun as setting up a triple and peeling for your team after
Having beginner gods be high tier would encourage the beginners to not switch. This already happens with the Loki mains but buffing them would just make it worse
While I love the idea of a perfect world where all gods are balanced there's really no way to do that especially because smite keeps adding in new characters and new item changes. If suddenly you were to buff the weaker characters got buffed it would make the stronger gods eventually fall into the lower tier then you got a repetitive chain of buffing and nerfing.
Beginner gods shouldn't be very strong at low skill levels, but because they are many people's favorite characters, they should have a decently high skill ceiling so that you have at least the option to play your favorite character competitively
Arachne always get some kind of rework like 4x already and Anubis is still garbage. Even Zeus had some attention placed on his abilities.
I think, beginner gods should have the same tier as harder gods, thats what makes them balanced. But you always should put an eye on how hard they are to play, and deciede the tier and the balances on that. A Neith is super easy to play and it requires no skill at all to get good woth her, so if a very good player is playing her, she gets way over the potential she shows for normal players. A harder god should have higher stats, just to get on the same level as a neith.
I think it's okay for some beginner gods to be viable in the competitive scene, but overall, beginner gods should stay with beginners, I say.
i'm not a good smite player so my point of view might not be as valid as others but i really dislike the idea of tierlists because some people chooses to follow it in order to do good instead of playing gods they might grow to like more diversity is good and i'm glad whenever i see a different team from each match as i don't see too many who follows the tierlist however i am getting tired of loki and ao kuang being picked 90% of my matches but oh well
as for buffs well i do wish that chaac got a small boost to his late game i don't know how that would be possible without making him op i don't see a lot of bastet but when i do she throws me in the litterbox but as with chaac i guess it would be nice to see her do better late game aswell i don't play her that much but i would like to see her do good same with chaac they might be easy to pick up but i'd hate to see them get abandoned because they are in a lower tier
In terms of balancing, yes they need a buff, but for a learning curve game like smite they're probably right where they should be.
i feel like These gods are perfect to beginners but the beginners need to know that these wont always be the best gods to play. I also feel that chiron is a massive beginner god with a heal, easy clear, an ability that cant miss and an ult that can revive. To be honest i would love to see these gods get buffs and see competitive play but id prefer to see them as a starting point for new comers.
I just think all gods should be viable to play because then you can play who you *want* to play, as opposed to who you *have* to play. The meta changes all the time though, that is enevitable. Though personally, I only play assault, arena and joust 3vs3, so what god is good in competative play doesn't really consern me that much.
I feel as though Odin is more beginner friendly than Hercules, and he does rarely see any competitive play (Mainly picked to counter healing teams), but other than that you make great points; All gods should have a place and purpose to be played in higher tiers
I do not see the point of having a character in your MOBA that is nearly unviable in most situations. Ah Muzen Cab is a great example of this. Either don't have him in the game, or make it so that he can function properly and be usable in the main game mode.
Starter gods shouldn't be high tier because people just want to win(a lot of people that play smite) will just play them.
Interesting. I think that there should be incentivised quests for mastering X number of gods to X level to encorage people to branch out. Also, fuck Loki.
I think the issue also lies in some Gods just being way too high tier. Anubis and Bastet have obvious counters but some top tier gods have little to none and have to be banned every match.
Apart from Loki, they should be a little more viable. If I loved Chaac I'd hate to be forced to switch to other characters.
As an Ah muzen Bee player, I do agree with everyone else. No God should purposefully be not as viable as the rest.
I think they should to an extent, I am new to the game and you bring up some good points but at the same time I would like to know that the gods I am learning early on to get the hang of the game will still be viable later on. A god like Neith is ideal because her kit has been easy me to learn and she has been a high tier in the past meaning I am not wasting my time her either.
I find its all a matter of opinion and situation.
Due to a lack of escapes certain mages are better than others. But the player may ignore this because of preference.
I don't think easy characters should be high Tier because then it would be OP having a good God that is also easy to play
i really think these gods should be buffed, except for loki. making him stronger would make a complete kit rework necessary.
Cabrakan with damage turns into CapressF6
I'm in the middle on this one, I don't want a super restricted God pool for comp but at the same time I want to be rewarded for taking the time to master how to play a harder god
I feel they need easy to play gods that don't bring much to the table and then really hard gods that bring a lot like if ao kuang was really difficult to use but still brings a lot to the table
duke are you planning to do a video on the tp system in ranked or matchmaking?i'm intrested on what you think about it.
if there were no beginner gods that were easy to play without effort you wouldn't have enough time to get into the game and figure out how to build and do several other things
I think it's actually better that they are not high tier. It means people have to work harder and be better at the game to do well in higher tiers
I play Neith very often and I like how she is right now she don't need that buff and I think all of the other ones too
These gods should not be buffed. Easy to play but not so good at higher levels of play is fine.
any god can be used in ranked if knowing what your doing and are aware of their weak points
I remember when I first started to play Smite. I knew nothing about the game. I thought that Kuku and Anubis were so broken. Haha.
Now though, since I've been playing for over a year now, whenever I see a Kuku or Anubis, I think to myself, "Easy kills". Lol
They aint that easy of a kill if they have good positioning, they always have to be behind someone tanky that protects them, have wards, dont push too much if you have no vision of jungle, etc. Anubis can make a difference on a game where he isnt hardly focused because of his high damage, and kuku has easy to hit damage, and as duke said they are very damaging. Of course, they will never be as good as scylla or janus or etc
Major respect to you man! I think your points are very valid. I personally enjoy playing as Chaac quite a bit, but I feel as though Bellona is easier to pick up. I think her kit is easier to understand, and I feel like she can bully people easier.. I would like to see a little more damage on Chaac's ult, but I get that it would make Chaac just a bit over the top in terms of being over powered. I know I always suggest to my friends that pick up the game to use Bellona first in the solo lane just because I feel like she is a lot easier to understand, and you get very good damage, protections, and some sustain. Yet, I see Bellona picked up often in competitive games that I watch, and in higher level streams I see. What do you think? I'd really like to hear your opinion on Bellona DukeSloth!
Also, I always enjoy your informative videos man! Really enjoy your content! :)
Thank you! I think Bellona is still to bloated and hence strong, which is why I wouldn't place her with these gods.
Looking at chat in the beginning between Almog and amir lol, poor almog
I like Kuku and anubis, for casual they're really fun.
i have sylvanus Mastery 10 and I usually built soulstone as a Starter item ( it worked) till the nerfd/buffed it and it doesnt work on the heal anymore. I used this item so often, if you go to smiteguru to most used builds than you will see, that about 3% of all sylvanus players use soulstone... i still want to believe thats only me :D
Yeah, sylvanus is surprisingly good at mid lane too...
+Harry Francis Sylvanus jungle
I got diamond slyvanus also. He is so under appreciated. One of the best supports if played right. My favorite God hands down, right in front of fafnir although poor fafnir needs a buff in some way lol
fafnir is good as it is just land the ability
I just like listening to your voice... that came out wrong.
@dukesloth but ARTEMIS IS BAE
I think that starter gods should still remain viable in higher play. Most starter gods just don't with a few exceptions.
I don't think they have to be top tier, but I think they should at least be A.
Lets buff lokis cooldowns so he can do more in team fights
What about Ymir? Dead easy and pretty good
This Fafnir and the Hou Yi are way to funny xD
As long as my Scylla is still good I'll survive
Im really surprised you didn't mention Thor as the begginer assasin and he's been top tier always. There's also Ra as another begginer mage but he hasn't been in the meta since season 1. I'm really ok with the current situation of the begginer gods.
Thor is in a bit of a place of his own. Due to his attack cancelling mechanism, he can be more challenging and effective than most of these gods, along with never having dropped below A+ tier.
Ra has actually seen play in the SPL a few times.
no gods should be easy for beginners because this creates unbalance no matter what, all gods should be difficult to play as this does promote more learning and quicker, if you make a beginner god and make them top tier, an easy to play top tier god exists, if you make a bad beginner god, an underpowered god exists, the easiest answer to this is to have all gods be at least somewhat difficult to play
Gameboy20121 that's why I'm personally for loki getting a total rework to his kit
Gameboy20121 he does have a high skill cap tho, the difference between a good and bad loki player is night and day
Gameboy20121 a loki who split pushes is a bad loki anyway to be honest
Gameboy20121 you don't really have to suicide tbh
Gameboy20121 it really does
Kukulkan's 3 is so annoying ...!
Thing is that making a god which only good for beginners is a bad desing to begin with.
In this department. You should make god which is easy to learn but hard to master(Like thor. Thor is easy to use assasin. BUT he has his own required player skill to release his full potencial) But if you create a god which is only good until lvl 20 and then its worthless piece of crap. Then it means you designed something which is always gonna be worthless until you do rework of the said god.
So instead of buffing. I would suggest remaking the kits in some way that it would make the gods hard to play at higher levels. But still making them somewhat usefull(Instead of making them great until lvl 20 and then turn them into worthless piece of crap) Of course if some buff could do the thing. Then for sure buff the god that way(But hey. I am not balancing master. So i cant go and say buff anubis this and this way to make him balanced.)
Also for easy gods: You should add zeus(I mean. Anybody can play that god and same goes for ah puch) And hercules while not being that much usefull. I would not say hes easy to play god too(Because game forces you to learn tons of things before you can play him just a little) And instead of artemis i would add hou yi or chiron.
And before hou yi fanboys shows here: Even though those geometric skillshots from your ricochet are good. The only thing you literally need to do to be decent hou yi is just shoot it in straight line for stun and land few aa(Which even trained monkey can do) So while he is difficult to master. He is still easy to play.
Agreed on most points except Hou Yi. Hou Yi without good bounces on his 1 is like playing Scylla without landing ults. Possible, but far away from the full potential.
DukeSloth You honestly dont need fully mastered hou yi to do at least decently.
As long as you can get that 1 second stun + few aa and potencial ult on them. Then you are good to go(Of course. Hou yi which know how to bounce is superior. But noob hou yi can still fight at decent level)
I would prefer gods easier to learn to be low tear as otherwise hard to learn gods would be useless
and even if Im scylla main I will place her there she is extremely easy
They should get buff
I get why bastet is begginer, cause you can just jump in, puke all your skills, drop cats, jump back and be fine.
But why loki is considered begginer god? He is begginers nightmare for sure, because no idea how to counter and every smurf played him, but i was shit as loki for some time even when i reached level 30 (though it was 4 years ago and i struggled with every assassins, besides maybe old kali), only later when i grinded every mastery i got it how to use him. I think fenrir was much easier to pick up.
And no , i dont think they should buff them, unless they struggle with W/L ration even in casuals (like i think anubis did, thats why they buffed him)
The thing is with Loki is that, a majority of people have heard of the Avengers, and who's in the Avengers? Loki. Is he easy to play? Given the build and a very basic instruction manual, anyone who's never played the game can oneshot and get away with one hand while the other is wiping away the sweat from the lack of work have to be done.
Jacob Foote i dont know , i myself and my friends had a hard time in general to learn melee god, especially if their skills connected to melee attacks, we simply just died, maybe thats why we struggled with him
+Nerous Loki is easy to pick up. I guess it's each to his own. I mean my friend picked Kuku up really easily but sucks as Loki.
Reason being is that he doesn't understand Loki is melee so every time he cloaks, he auto attacks which promptly breaks the stealth nowhere near his target what h leads to immediate death
Don't think Sylvanus is a easy god to play, Because her 3 is just to hard to master, And his 1 is more easy, But still hard.
I think Ares and Ymir can be the easiest Guardian to play, Ares is very simple, Hit chains and Fire, Ult whenever possible, Ymir just throw the combo everytime, You not gonna do very well, But you not gonna do bad, You team will not hate you kk'
A good enough Ares can carry a game since his early game damage is ridiculous and how many ults synergize with his.
I know that, But he is easy to play on a regular level, Maybe the most easy Guardian
Ares is kinda hard, his chains are not that easy to hit, for me the easiest guardian to use is athena, shes got an escape, good damage, global ult that can get you to anywhere, or get you out and one of the best CCs in the game, which is not even hard to use
Chaac needs a buff , her first skill could stay in the ground even he use another abilit. It could bring more CC to a TF. I dont agree that easy gods needs to be low tier BUT difficult gods should have more gain if correctly use.
And the only gods that u say that a dont see in a ranked game is sylvanos, chac and herc , the other I frequently see in ranked, even that they arent played in competive.
Ps: herc isnt easy to use and sylva is hard to master. Loki and basted can do a amazing split in late game. XIng is the beginner guardian for me. And AMZ uti is hard to hit if u are a Noob.
+Rafael Bacelar ymir is for begginers, and as well geb
Bartosz Cichoszewski Ymir have no scape and geb no clear and is a late game god. Xing have sustein, clear in duo lane , scape and u can build anything that will be ok.
I am the only one in the world that thinks that neiths 1 is really hard?For me is really hard skill to land,i land much more ullrs 1,scyllas 1 and ult...For me ras 1 and ult and neith 1 are the hardest skills in the game.Just dont kill me with messages like:fucking noob.
Ra's ult is actually difficult to land if you're not used to the windup on it and have trouble with predictions.
You have to get used to that Neiths spirit arrow (Her 1) follows your aim, its not shot att where you aim it insantly, you understand?
Ok thanks guys :).Dont think i am noob just hate this gods.I just did 8-1 with ullr vs hou yi in duel and the hou yi is good,buy i was aimng every fucking skill and playing soo aggresive,but that wont happen with neith,i just cant aim his fucking 1 ;(
You forgot Ymir.
I would preffer everygod to be viable, so as a Goal something like "no God below C-Tier, better under B-Tier" - but i k now thats utopia.
I think the beginner gods should be easy to play, so you get a feeling of achievment. For that they need some Saftylines, like Heal, Escape etc. The Prob with a Charakter that you learn fast and use good is, limits your potential since you won't switch if it can be helped. and so higher tier should be more about mechanics. Let's say a Team were everyone has his role or plays in his role. Something like Knockup enemys for Awilix and knockup friends for Jingwei or so.
So i would find it annoying playing a Ullr vs a Neith vs a Houyi vs a Artemis and getting flamed for having no Mana (Ullr) or that i didn'T escaped the enemys (Artemis) or that i didn't hit my ability properly (Hou yi) They are different. And hitting a Neith Ult is way easier than hitting a Artemis or Hou Yi Ult, wich is easier than a AMC Ult. And Ull doesn't even have that. But then again: whats the point in learning a easy god, if yu can't play him anymore? And If your Charakter is allforgiving you won't learnt anything. If your 1 gives you 40% health, your tweo 40% Mana, your three is a CC-Immun, Indestructible Jump and your Ult a Aoe-Kill, you won't learn your positioning, your Life and Mana management or your Skillshots, right?
If i think back to the times i started playing assault... i started with 5 health and 5 multipotions and was always oom and with prettymuch no health... i then got to Health and Manapotions and were still always oom and out of Health... now i start sometimes with three and have still some after 10 min or so. Because somehow i use less mana and take less dmg, just from playing differently ^^That should never come short i think^^