It blows my mind how many people managed to get through the entire game without ever figuring this out. I tried it in like the first five minutes of playing lol.
Man I’m a souls fan hardcore and I loved this game. I thought the bosses were awesome. I loved the unbroken promise, sundered monarch, reinhold, judge cleric, congegrator of flesh. All but a few of the bosses that are used as enemies have really cool designs. The music too was so good especially for the unbroken promise that gave me goosebumps. Also, elden ring reused bosses and enemies hardcore sooooooo ya lol
I’ve only fought 2 rememberances that I thought were lame, Tree sentinel clone and the spirit girl in the ice zone. I thought the rest were really well made.
@@ChuckFinelyForeverYeah the horse was lame until I learned you can knock him off the horse by using lamp on the parasites when he ride at you. Then he gets knocked off and you stop that boring riding cycle. He is not optimal fun to fight but at least he's not the most boring boss in the world after I figured that out.
In regards to the vestige seeds if you're buying them you likely aren't spending enough time in umbral I hated the whole system until I just started spending most of the time in umbral and you get tons of seeds from all the fairy creatures.
Yeah this dude missed like 90% of the mechanics in this game dude got lost ffs besides trying to find bramis castle idk how one can get lost "bc of shit map design" like wut
Its the easy ending final boss kinda disingenuos that he didnt mention the true final boss elianne also didnt mention judge cleric or dervla makes me think he hasnt even played the game
That depends on what ending you pick, but yes I too was pretty sad that this boss was just killing all the enemies. Although it’s for lore it’s still disappointing.
This video reminds me about what I thought of Dark Souls 1. I didn't understand the appeal until much later!😅 If you get confused, you might want to pay more attention then. In real life, for example, I don't even use a GPS. I look at a map, and know where to go. Games are supposed to strengthen your muscle memory. Planting your "Bonfires," ended up being very fun. They are everywhere. The strategy I ended up doing was making a blind run throughout a new level, memorizing every seed vestige until I got defeated. Then, I will run back to the same place where I got defeated, and plant a seed at the nearest one. In the third major area, there's a ton of enemies. After my blind run through, I opened a gate that lead to a visage point, creating a shortcut. I reset the area since I was low on health, ran back, and lured all the enemies to a vantage point, destroying them all within 2 mins. So enemy density wasn't even a problem. I could go on, those were just a few examples. This game is like a puzzle, there's a strategy for everything. My point is, this game is as enjoyable for me as Dark Souls 3, no other Soulsborne game has done this for me, and with the newest update, the combat feels better than ever.
U are so right, people hate this game because they just dont like to use brain. I love darksouls but enemies are so weak that it feels like i am hiting a punching bag. Loft has maybe less enemies but much more enjoyable and unique
Thank you. Finally somebody understands vestige seeds. It became pretty clear after the first few levels that you are not supposed to use them up every time you find a new flower bed.
@@valentinvas6454 yes seeds should be used only at rly hard locations where vestiges are far away. I wasted around 5 seeds for no fkin reason and I still have plenty in my pocket in late game
@@wakifilms2592my issue is how do you know how far away a vestige is? I went through a majority of an area looking for another vestige, and nothing. Eventually found a spot for a seed, and I had no resources. Lo and behold ten feet later a vestige. It feels poorly spaced out
1: You can gather your lost vigor from far away using lamp 2: Vestige seeds are now 1250(or 1500 i dont remember exactly) 3: Vestige moths (homeward bones) are easily obtained from the trap items by using your lamp attack at the item But i agree with the anaysis tho
It does feel far more grind intense. Than the NG+ just further pushed the grind aspect of it. It's more tedious if a game without actually being any more difficult just drawn out.
18:56 So you just complained about the Hushed Saint being annoying because you couldn't attack him while he was riding his horse, but now you ask for a boss that needs you to get in and out of Umbral to defeat him. Guess what, I'll invite you to replay that boss and try that Umbral thing you just asked for. Same for the complaint about not being able to collect vigor on ennemies you kill from far away, try to use Umbral lamp and you won't have to complain about that again. However there are some good points in your video like ennemy variety being terrible.
Just wanted to say you can suck up the souls enemies drop by shining the lantern at them. You don't have to walk over them. But it still was an unnecessary change from the formula that I disagree with.
Using your Umbral Lamp will recover your vigor from far away. Enemies have long range, so do you. The developers have given us a lot of tools to defeat these enemies, all that remains is to use them better. People go into this game thinking of using a big sword and just bashing without analyzing the environment.
@@johndodo2062I dont see any of the other things listed to be huge problems, the bosses are a bit easy thats about it. Everything else isnt a big deal, the bonfires being few and far between is easily worked around by using the seeds and the seeds and a big as a deal to come by as he made out. Also vestige moths (homeward bones) pile up if you kill the mimics.
Cope, that literally doesn't excuse many of the game's problems Also, what do you mean "analyze the environment", the game looks so fucking similar at every turn that it's hard to tell where the fuck you are
@blinkachu5275 it doesn't excuse other problems it has. But the example you gave is not a problem of the game. The guy is simply mentioning how many things people are criticizing are not actually problems. The only problems I see are performance issues, bugs, maybe the vestiges lacking on NG+ and maybe bosses being too easy. Other than that, most of the criticism seems unfair to me, and it's just people shitting on the game because they don't like it. I haven't finished the video, so I am not talking about the person who made the video. I am talking about people in general.
A very honest review. Thank you. I was getting smoke blown up my ass by some folks and was on the fence about which one to buy. Lies if P looks so much more fun and diverse. Great video! You got yourself a new subscriber! 👍🏼
I'm enjoying Lords of the Fallen, especially compared to the first one. One thing I love about LotF over DS3/Elden Ring, was the actual amount of supporting items and mechanics that help Caster builds. You have several different ways to build your Caster, rather than trapped to fluffing up your damage numbers.
i agree with you 100% on everything you mentioned here. That being said, i do love the feel, the grit, ambience and tones of the game and that alone, personally, i think carries it through its faults. Coming from Lies of P and how amazing and polished that game is, i had a hard time relating to a puppet and feeling like I am the one making the decisions and experiencing the world. This alone made the experience more enjoyable in LOTF.
Honestly a perfect review in my mind. Only difference in my opinion being bosses - Pieta & Judge Cleric were the only good bosses in my mind. I don’t understand the excuses people give for this games boss design saying it reminds them of demons souls as if that’s a good thing. That game came out in 2009 & boss design in these games have evolved drastically since then, it’s embarrassing not a positive. And I don’t know if you noticed, but playing the game as a quality build, scaling felt COMPLETELY off. I was level 100 by end game and my maxed out Harrower colossal boss sword was hitting for 300 damage on trash mobs, taking 2-3 hits to kill, while my Lump hammer throwing hammer with WORSE SCALING would hit the same mobs for 1500, A CARPENTERS HAMMER IS DEALING 5X THE DAMAGE OF MY GREAT SWORD.
"I don’t understand the excuses people give for this games boss design saying it reminds them of demons souls as if that’s a good thing. " Because some people, including me, prefer the old era of Souls games that are much more methodical and slow. Souls combat has become way too fast and frenetic in my opinion, so something designing their game after the old generation is a perfect fit for me.
Lies of P is indeed much more polished than this. It runs flawlessly, i love the fluidity of the animations and the guard system is neat too. The levels were simple and tbh i didnt love them that much, but the bosses are really top tier ❤ definitely quality over quantity. I will not soon forget Laxasia as she screams and lauches lightning at you at the beginning of 2nd phase, such a hype boss.
i havent found myself ever wanting to buy those bonfire seeds so im confused about that complain. also, everytime you kill a boss, you receive one of those seeds most of the time.
7:21 couple comments - if your in Umbral a lot the game is very liberal at dropping vestige seeds. The moth enemies almost always drop seeds if your not already full at the cap of 5. Also to address this feedback the devs have dropped the cost of seeds to 1100 vigor I believe. Not much at all. A single larger enemy in late game areas. Also as far as the amount of souls dropped. I kind of understand this feedback. However I’d like to point out the cost of levels rise much less quickly than traditional souls. At level 130 I’m only spending around 15k per level. I feel Elden Ring ramped up costs of runes much faster for levels. However all that said… I still always run the moth ring to increase vigor drops and the runes on my weapons to further increase the drops. So it’s obvious even I wish souls dropped faster. I was also over-leveled most game because of this. Lastly… as far as vestige seed bait and placement…. There is always a path the appears after any named boss. You learn quickly that there will be a better spot to place a seed shortly after early game. Those patches are only if you feel you absolutely need a refresh right that second. However I almost never felt that way after very early game because I quickly learned there would be a better spot soon. Also I don’t necessarily feel like having too many seed patch options is bad. It means you have more options. Most spots will work. Just because there’s a spot shortly ahead of a few enemies doesn’t mean the patch you dropped won’t work just as well. Even if you do decide to drop another…at the high rate of seed drops from moths and decreased cost… there is no reason you could spend a couple thousand souls to top up your seeds feel more comfortable with options going forward. My biggest complaint in this game is the NPC quest design. They are convoluted like Fromsoft games… however they have fail states that are way to east to achieve accidentally… or force you to adjust you play in unenjoyable ways. For example Byron asked me to find a pendant and not 10 minutes later fought a boss guarding a giant elevator. It was clear there would be a vestige up top… but there was an entire area below to explore. To explore below you needed to defeat the boss to get a key. I chose to go up the elevator to refresh heals and head back down. Byron was at the top telling me he found it and I failed the quest. Literally in 10 minutes I failed the quest. There’s an NPC quest named Kukajin. To finish her quest you need to die or warp out after starting like 7-8 main boss fights. Then you need to summon kumajin to fight with you and pay her around a 3rd of the boss runes each time. I did not want to fight with NPC help… I wanted to fight the bosses myself and keep the souls. But to do her quest I had to make both of those sacrifices. I’m addition if you beat a boss first try… you would never know she was summonable for those bosses because the NPC summon ghosts don’t appear until you’ve initiated the boss fight most. I get easily missed NPCs are convoluted quests like with Fromsoft games. They can be frustrating and difficult to discover without a guide. However I feel this game took it to the extreme by making fail states be extremely simple to accidentally trigger. It also made you alter the way you enjoy fighting bosses by summoning NPCs for those fights versus challenging yourself fighting it on your own. I really enjoyed this game. There was certainly a lot of frustrating about this game. I’m hoping the developers learn from feedback and make a sequel. I feel like if they take feedback to heart like they have been since the game released…. They could truly make an incredible souls like to rival Fromsoft
I like a large world to explore with plenty to do and a map however in lords of fallen there was certain areas that were not clearly marked out or obvious as where to go, this was a frustration
Fair enough. I think I commented about this within this video. Now my favorite game. But hey, I know some people genuinely enjoyed this game. More power to them!
From 3:16, I cant help but listening to the Dark souls 2 music in the background and dream of the good memories of how good experience it was at that time playing that game. I know many people complains about it. I have never understood why, but for me it was the perfect game. The atmosphere was unlike anything else and the PvP is in my opinion the best that has ever been in this genre. I really miss how much i enjoyed that game.
I see alot of people mention the seeds when they drop from the flying things in umbral and they drop items every time they die and you can only hold 5 seeds and the flowerbeds are used for Ng+ as there is only the skyrest vestige
I am a soulsborne fanatic and I had high hopes for this game. I enjoyed the first few areas, but then everything got so monotonous. Also the lock on mechanic sucks. I much prefer Lies of P, in fact, I stopped playing Lords of The Fallen and am now concentrating instead on getting the Platinum in LOP.
Almost all of your criticism about this game is either about it not doing things like Dark Souls 3, or you personally disagreeing with the developers' decisions about the balancing. Case and point, perfect parries doing whither damage. It doesn't matter that you personally don't like it. This is what the developers wanted the combat experience to be like. The same goes for vestiges and vestige seeds. The levels are long and grueling, and the odds are stacked heavily against you. This is intended, you just don't like it. However, if you actually clear everything, you are rewarded with tons of vigor and important loot, especially if you're dying and gathering your vigor back from where you fell. Failure is expected in these games, after all. If you actually play the video game, you won't have to lament the bosses dropping so few souls by contrast. It really just sounds like you wanted to force this game to play like DS3, and when it didn't bend, your impatience drove you to running through levels because you just didn't respect the fact they would dare have a different design philosophy to From. Your impatience and refusal to engage with the game is what sullied your experience, not the game itself. It's almost as if you've grown too comfortable with how From design their games, and when an outsider does something different, you either resort to calling it just plain wrong design, or you forego adapting to the new rules and just ignore the content you don't like to rush the game and beat it. Far too much comparison being made to Ds3 here for a game that is absolutely not Ds3, nor is it attempting to be. Personally, Ds3 is the weakest of the franchise in my opinion as it is such an, admittedly exceptional, yet standardized and safe action RPG. DeS, Ds1, and Ds2 all had strong survival horror elements to them, what with the hazardous level design, overwhelming enemies, and complex areas. Ds3 far too often coasts in on autopilot, often presenting stages of combat puzzles for you to solve with your toys. Rarely it does up the ante, such as in the Painted World or the Catacombs, but Ds3 largely abandoned the survival horror aspect of its roots for a more head-on ARPG experience. This aspect of survival horror, which I think is an unsung defining trait of the franchise, is what I believe Lords was attempting to capture with these design decisions. Personally that made me incredibly pleased with the game as a whole. It was very experimental, and innovation is desperately needed in this genre if it is to evolve. Ds3 had me worried upon release as I wondered if From had fallen into a comfort zone. Thankfully they clearly haven't and still have an insatiable desire to innovate themselves. It's good they have competition, if you can call it that, as they will surely look to what others are doing for inspiration.
Regarding the door blocked by the rock that you need to return to eventually in the late game, it sounds like you eventually figured out this was where to go through a process of elimination. I have not gotten that far in my play-through yet, but imo it seems like the game gives you the tools you need to figure it out, albeit if you’re playing close attention. I say that because on the map fragment for that area it shows a picture of that previously-blocked door with an “X” over the image, meaning you’re not going there yet initially. Also near that image is a set of five red tally marks (the four vertical lines with the slash through it). I took that to signify the five beacons, and once you’ve cleansed them you will return to this (presumably) now-unlocked gate. I could be wrong, like I said I’m not there yet, but it makes sense to me and I’d honestly be surprised if I was wrong. I really haven’t had problems with either progressing through areas or progressing through the world, just by being thorough in my exploration. And it seems like the map fragments, as you acquire them, are automatically ordered in terms of a seemingly “preferred progression” route, which is something I appreciated and used to stay on track. The map fragments are honestly something I found far more useful than I initially would’ve thought.
U are absolutely spot on shit ive over 400 hrs in thus game and i didnt know that the gate shows u that stuff lol on my 1st playthrough i just went back there bc of byron and seen the locked door
A lot of the criticisms made are valid and some I agree with, but the 'you have to walk to collect your souls' is wrong (Though not your fault either). You can use your lamp to collect your souls from a distance, this isn't explained to the player and it certainly should have. Mob variety is also pretty bad, they're variants of each other with their resistances changed depending on their faction. My biggest gripe is the ability to feel tanky from just the armour you wear. You have armour values in the hundreds and it feels like it does nothing. The numbers are greatly inflated and the only enemy that feels like it doesn't do damage to me, are the umbral swarm zombies. Demon souls made me feel tanky from the start against most enemies if I was wearing heavy armour. With the density of mobs in this game, armour should have a far more profound impact. I should not be dying to swords in 2-3 swings in heavy armour.
You know you can vacuum your souls right? You don’t have to touch them. Also, why are you buying vestige seeds? I almost always have five at all times…I’ve literally never purchased one.
I don't think "bonfire bait" mechanics is intentional. I think it's a consequence of another bad game design choice, the NG+ without vestiges. When there are no vestiges those spots make perfect sense.
and the bonfire mechanic is smart it force people to learn how is made the level.... often you can cross a large part if not all the area without really need one. it's tricky but doable. and like said, the bonfire in ng+ are take out little by little now... meaning all this vestige seed place will be important and be strategic. another point umbral is not the whole level some part can be blocked in umbral while open in axiom, don't happend often but it happend.
@@Beldhan this mechanic would be smart if the level design along with enemy placement were not feeling like a chore. For me this game is am emotional rollercoaster. I really want to like it but I endnup being annoyed by it.
lol this is so funny, i think this seed bait is very awesome, because it makes you think twice, if you want to seed or walk some stepps and see if there is something else. i love it when i sometimes find out it was a good choice not to seed and walk a bit more. or when i see, oh no, no way i have to go back and seed it or i will get rekt. i can tell you, everyone who cries about this mechanis is a absolutely ridiculous kid, that needs some milk from mommy. i just cant... most of these people came from hard games like dark souls 1-3 or elden ring and they really cry about such a mechanic, that let you use a bit of your brain and makes the game a bit harder? the seeds are very valuable items, so use them cautious with your brain. they even let you buy them how many you want, they did this 100% for cry kids like this, that would have said the game is shit, because you cant use 1000 seeds on every corner. all i can tell to these kids is, grow some balls and stop cry.
@@rallzam you need to chill out with your toxic sperg out. As I originally said the "bait" mechanics is basically not a thing. The flower bed locations are chosen around NG+ and make perfect sense. I don't think I ever had to use more than 3 seeds per location.
@@not_your_business666 you said its not intentional, which is a joke to me. there are flowers on the floor and right behind the corner is a main bon fire. and you call this not intentional lol? they did this like on every main bon fire and this is not intentional? they did it 100% intentional, to teach people to use their brain and use the seeds with caution. and then you call it "another bad game design choice" which is the point i made in my post before. kids call everything a bad game design, when they dont understand it, or when it need some brain to do it.
Highly agree with this analysis. Was surprised to see someone has the same thought as me about the umbral puzzle where you have to light your lamp, and walk a bit, then purposely fall down the ledge below by deselecting the lamp. As it stands right now, there are no "umbral puzzles" that get more complex than that one found in the early hours of the game.
For the amount of subscribers you have i have to commend you for putting out such a good quality video and i hope your channel gains more traction than it is getting now!
damn I love this game so much, great combat, great exploration, great music, great world design, and great aesthetic that's so dark and weird... it always feels so cool and stressful being in umbral, and the exploration puzzles are amazing, with so many shortcuts... really not sure what people were expecting with this game, I've had so much fun with it
I agree, people just can't stand when a game called a soulslike isn't exactly a 1:1 replica of Dark Souls. I feel like they should stick to their guns a bit because they are building something we don't fully know how to play yet and what it can become (playstyle, pacing, tactics etc). If they tweak this to death too early because of Dark Souls fanboys it might lose it's identity and what it could become.
Yeah this video is irrelevant when theirs ppl that actually like the game! I’m new to the dark souls games and I like this more than Elden Ring! I mean it has its flaws but what game don’t get better and stop crying it’s always ways around the flaws… hate when ppl try to take away from the game because it’s not like another game smh RUclipsrs act like they can make better games
@@TimothyGod dude the complains are beyond ridiculous. im a souls vet, i played all of them dark souls 1, dark souls 2, dark souls 3, bloodborn and elden ring all of these are awesome. i also liked dark souls 2, it was not as good as the others, but i had fun with it. but i can tell you, i just finished lord of the fallen yesterday and i have to say, i had the most fun in a souls game ever. i had not a single bug, the world looks stunning on a good pc, the fights are much fun, you just have to learn how to deal with each of them. the sound design is beyond, the footsteps or when you roll around with heavy armor, when you walk in differen rooms, the reverb of the room changes. the dark atmosphere is insane, its so hard to make every level dark and dirty but still beautiful and they had to design the level 2 times, one in normal and one in umbral, its like 2 games in 1. i love this game and will start today another new run. im not the ng+ kind of guy. i think the hate the game is getting is by kids that have no self-consciousness. they hear from some kid "i hate this in this and this in the game" so the other kid, start the game playes 10 minutes, stopps and go to the internet and say the same bs what the first kid said. its the snowball-effect. the people should just play and dont listen too others.
@@rallzam I agree with you, this game sucked me in like no other soulslike have done. There is a certain vibe to it that is really cool. I also agree with sound, party might be the weakest sound in the game but overall their sounddesigner is a genius. Like you say every cave, hall etc have the right reverb and the ambience and graphics to match. It is a really beautiful game overall. Not perfect (enemy variety/elite enemies) but a damn good first shot at the game.
Find kinda fun the feeling of choosing where to put the vestige seeds, because there is always some where just up ahead, so (for me) it is a question of skill and gamble Used all my seed descending the torture tower xD
Personally I didn’t find the interconnected world all that interesting, mostly because it doesn’t amount to much. Outside of the shortcut to Calrath, are there any significant connections between levels? You’ll never use a bonfire in one level, use a shortcut and end up in another level. Perhaps I’m forgetting one, but must levels, in terms of the progression path, are linear
The "interconnected world" suffers greatly because you can't really freely explore. What's the point of an "open world" if there's no open exploration? You can't choose your path. You're required to follow a more or less linear progression path. Yeah, you can technically go from A to D, but usually only after you have already fully cleared out D and looped back around to the beginning.
@@calvinwilson3617completely agree. The one that instantly comes to mind is the path of devotion. Yes it connect back to the hub (which is cool) but it’s useless because you’ll never go back that way
I think the vestige system is great. I love it. It’s high stakes and you gotta be smart about it. I think my only gripe with the game is enemy variety and polish. 8/10 for me
LOTF is my 2nd fav (non from) souls game , right behind Salt and Sanctuary. I looove the atmosphere and geniuenly feel the love behind every tiny aspect of the game. The armor is awesome, tints need to be added to every game ever and the top bosses like tancred, judge and pieta are mad fun to parry and dodge in equal amount. I dont want to yap too much, you're right for most of the points, the other i violently disagree lol . All love, good vid meow meow
I was pretty "oke" with most of it, but when i came to bramin castle i lost it. What the hell is up with that area. Ruiners everywhere, crazy sniper priests. 100 dogs. Nah im good. I wil probably never finish this game because of that area.
You made many great points, I agree with all of the bad things you noted about this game especially about the level mobs but there is just something about this game that I love way more than lies of P (I'm about half way through both games)
Tbh all lies of p did was make me wanna go back and play bloodborne. Lords of the fallen feels like it has its own identity. Besides most that hate it just wont admit it was just too hard for them. They literally complain about everything this game does that makes it hard and makes darksouls easy. Anyone saying "i beat the game and i hate it" is lying. I saw most "souls streamers" couldnt even get past the 1st boss. But then made hour long videos on why its a bad game lol. They just dont like it because its an actual hard game. All the bogus they say for why its bad is just salty excuses
@@GigaChadDuPlessis 'Anyone saying "I beat the game and i hate it" is lying' is a pretty bold assumption to make. It is ok for people to not like the game. I didn't like LotF but it made me love LoP more than what I initially thought with how polished the game looked even with its flaws. LotF is quite rough around the edges and I really hope they improve it. I came into both LotF and LoP with open mindset and not putting it next to what fromsoft offers. In the end I liked LoP more. LotF reminded me of DS2 which is my least favorite of fromsoft games I have played. LotF has similar philosophy of DS2 where the area you cleared is harder than the area boss itself. I don't remember single boss that gave me trouble whereas I had most trouble navigating through shit ton of enemies. I tried both approaches. When I went strategically killing one enemy at a time, the projectile enemies would have such long range where you couldn't even lock onto them and cheese them with throwables. When I just ran past I got overwhelmed pretty easily with body blocking and ranged enemy stunning me. I had my complaints with LoP as well like slogfest chapter 11, parry window being too strict, level design being quite linear with no room for getting lost even a little, too many 2 health bar bosses etc. But in the end LotF made me appreciate what LoP had to offer. LotF has potential and hopefully devs can realize that they are sitting on a potential goldmine. Edit: I put the game away for few days/weeks when I reached final area after cleansing 4 beacons and only 1 red was remaining. I couldn't take the ranged enemy bullshit anymore. It was like shrine of amana but every region being like that in the end game.
@@rhrishikeshsane5450 literally every problem people say is wrong with this game can be applied to elden ring too. So no its not bold. Its shows that its not a bad game. Its just too hard for you. But since youre a "souls vet" which are not as hard as fanboys say they are. Your ego wont allow you to admit a game is too hard. Cope🤷♂️
@@GigaChadDuPlessis if it makes my point valid then in my souls/fromsoft games ranking Elden Ring is not even on top. I started off with Elden Ring but its quite lower. If you want to discuss LotF then do that. But all you want to do is call critics as fromsoft fanboys and tell them to git gud and run away. Elden Ring had lots of BS and I called it out . After playing other fromsoft games, I found more stupid things with Elden Ring and called it out. People call Elden Ring as easy but Elden Ring is the hardest of them all imo because of the amount of bullshit it pulls. This still doesn't change that LotF suffers from lots of shortcomings which could've been avoided. Example: They wanted players to rely on seedlings only in ng+ but the seed bed placements are not good. The video contains 2 perfect examples 1. 2 seedbeds outside Spurred Progeny and 2. Mistress of the Hounds. Another example is Congregator of Flesh where there is a seedbed in the arena. Now given the past experience after Mistress of Hounds boss, I would think maybe there is a vestige right after the boss but I come across a small pond which needs me to go into umbral (if you are not already in there) to proceed. Now there is an umbral memory in that arena but also a statue to come out of umbral iirc. So I may or may not be in umbral. So as a normal player I put down a vestige thinking maybe I need to get a checkpoint before traversing the lake/pond. I do that and proceed forward and then I see a vestige right after that small pond area. So I basically wasted a seedling. The video perfectly calls it as bait. Why not make seedbeds as ng+ exclusive and add more vestige points in ng play or place seedbeds in better spots to not force players to waste seeds in redundant places? The enemies in normal realm absorb your vigor if you die to them. So to get it back I have to go through the enemies so that I don't get overwhelmed while trying to get them back by killing the enemy that absorbed them. It can get annoying if you are too deep into area and didn't put down a seedling anywhere coz the area only has 1 or 2 main vestige points. Point is it doesn't need to be absorbed by the enemies as it just forces players to keep fighting through mobs to be able to get them back and not get overwhelmed in the process. Half the time I just let go of 2-3k vigor coz I couldn't be bothered with the repeated process of going through and killing enemies again. It also takes a while to pick up dropped vigor. So I have to wait for an opening in a boss fight to pick up my dropped vigor without taking damage. Even the animation takes like 3 seconds to finish which feels big in crunch moments. What is the use of this other than to annoy the player. Or does it need player to git gud to pick up the vigor? EDIT: I say 'without taking damage' because I don't to spend a sanguinarix because I took damage while trying to pick up my dropped vigor or had to retry it because I got stunned out of the animation. I launch forward so much with weapon swings. While it helps with clearing hordes of enemies, it becomes the game's biggest annoyance right in the starting area which is basically platforms on cliffside. I fell to my death quite a bit coz I launched myself off the ledge with my weapon swing. Too many ambushes. The initial area of platforms on cliffside had so many ambushes. Almost every platform had an enemy that would push me off the platform. I tried to be cheeky by destroying the obstacles to expose him but didn't hit him and he managed to push me to my death. By the time I was done with the Pilgrim's Perch, I was master of seeing ambushes. None of the late game ambushes caught me (and this is not an exaggeration) off guard. Even the best hidden ones were hard cleared by me coz Pilgrim' Perch gave me PTSD and prepped me to check each and every corner. Ambushes should be ambushes, if players start expecting it, it is not an ambush anymore but annoyance. But they did some good QoL things too. The consumables getting replenished is awesome idea. I hope fromsoft adopts it. The ammo pouches are quite awesome as well and game provides plenty of them. I found myself cheesing the mobs majority of the times rather than go and fight them. So thank you to them for having this as an option. The spell casting is so much streamlined and adds a layer of skill to decide what spells you want to take to the fight since you can only have as many buttons assigned for each spell. So you can't take shit ton but can use them very easily. Not dying to wither damage as long as you block is a cool thing that saved me in clutch moments. It was a nice thing to have after coming from LoP. Not giving poison status while walking in the swamp was a welcome change. I loved that since I could take my time with exploring. I don't mind much about obscure questlines since Elden Ring was the same shit. I don't mind mini bosses appearing as common enemies as Elden Ring did the same.
I think the big problem is, this is not a "resurrection" of the franchise or what have you. The original Lords of the Fallen was a collaboration between Deck13 and CI Games, but Deck13 were likely the primary developer and after that game they went their own ways. The Surge games are the successors of the original LotF, and flawed as they are there is a clear sense of improvement on the design philosophies of the original LotF, to the extent that The Surge 2 actually holds up very, very well. When it came out around the same time as Code Vein, both games were relatively well-received and I can honestly say each has their own niche, both in comparison to each other but also to the genre as a whole. In contrast, LotF 2023 was a title that CI Games had been working on for a very long time, having burned through two dev teams in the process before assembling an in-house team to just get it done sooner rather than later. Even saying "well it's an improvement" doesn't feel right because there is so little in common between both games' moment-to-moment gameplay.
im personally loving the game currently on ng+2 but i gotta admit you bring up alot of facts and points. i do love the game and can overlook alot of the smaller things but alot of things i enjoy in the game someone else wont. i disagree with what you said earlier that anyone that is enjoying the game isnt going to like your video. actually quit the opposite nice to see a content creator giving his full honest opinion on the game ( kinda rare now a days ) even tho knowing fan boys will obviously disagree and voice their thoughts lol Awesome video man thoroughly enjoyed hearing your points about the game even tho you didn't like it. more content creators should be as honest as you are
When comparing souls drops from bosses, maybe pay attention the levelup cost is like ten times less in LotF than in DS3? Also, why at all are you referring to the price of a vestige seed? I was always having 3-5 during all the way as they drop from umbral enemies pretty often.
The hushed saint was one the more enjoyable bosses for me, only after i figured out that you can parry him and he falls off the horse. If i didn't somewhat felt curious or had the urge to experiment. I think i would share the same sentiment about it. But aside from that, i tended to agree with you on most everything else. This game could've been great but in the end it just fumbled the bag for me. I was so sick of this game by the half way point that i stopped experimenting and i made a dual gs build with the lamp socket that gives you infinite poise and i never parried, hardly ever dodged and i just spammed charged heavies like a lobotomite. Lies of p is head and shoulders above this game in terms of just quality. you may prefer one over the other but i think we can at least agree that there many fundamental things lies of p adopts and changes for itself from the souls formula that are just better.
Really sick of LOTF comparisons to ds2 simply bc of the mobs. 1. Ds2 enemies are much more varied. 2. Ds2 doesnt spam spawn forever. 3. Enemies will eventually stop spawning & the runback is easy. 4. The level design & mob placement is far better 5. LOTF is so claustrophobic. It gives me a headache 6. Ds2 is much more open & worst case scenario you snipe some from a distance. I challenge people comparing this to ds2. Play several hrs of LOTF, then ds2. Ds2 is severely underappreciated.
It’s the most mid game I’ve played in a long time. I Beat it last week and i Just hated the ganks, most bosses, the final boss was awful, repeat enemies/no variety. Just so mid.
Welp. I have to say I am enjoying the game, despite all the frustrations. I think we have the foundations of a wonderful sequel, as long as they take player feedback seriously. I'm having a great time, though every little victory is hard-fought. Maybe they could relax things a bit, for example, reducing enemy damage since we're receiving it from all fronts simultaneously. They went all-in, whereas they should have gone maybe 1/2 in.
The animations are what did it for me. Theyre really janky, the bosses and players attack animationa lack fluidity, you can tell where one animation ends and the second begins instead of being seamless. Either that or your player slides around like hes on ice skates
The second swing when using greatswords one-handed killed me more often than any enemy in the game ever could with your character inexplicably shooting forward (and off ledges) during that combo. Hell, the character's feet don't even move during that animation!
Thank you, finally a voice of reason within the community apart from ratatoskr. Cannot even think how people can accept this level of mediocrity and call it a day just because the game belongs to a certain genre. So fucking disappointing
Would you say the game is at least worth it at the current sale of $51.99 usd for the deluxe edition? Already finished lies of p, wo long and blasphemous 2 and am looking for another soulslike. If not, do you have recommendations?
Hi. I am sorry it took me some time to get back to you. With my personal taste, I would have to say no. I wont lie Lords of the fallen was somewhat mixed down the middle. Lot's of content creators liked it such as Zio, Cowboy, Lore hunter and a few others I cant think off the top of my head. So I don't want to say no because it really may be for you. As a hardcore souls fan myself, I would say LOTF would be worth in the $20 range if I wasn't making videos for fun. I personally didn't like it one bit. Although if you're looking for another souls like, I can't think of any that you may have not tried. I am not trying to self promote (I promise) but if you watch my video titled "the futre of souls games" I talk about all the teams that make souls like games. So maybe there is something that grabs your eye. The only game that I can maybe recommend is ASHEN. It's combat is simple but it toyed around with the idea of an OPEN AREA before Elden Ring. If you have any other comments and I don't respond, leave a brand new comment and i'll try to help :)
Sorry to spam you, but I watched this video by Lore Hunter and I want to play this game next. It takes insp from BB ruclips.net/video/EvE-KjCJokA/видео.html
@@CosmicEye597 Thanks, took a look at your vid and Last Faith looks pretty awesome! I'm also considering Steelrising and Jedi Survivor since both are on sale right now.
@@Goomba_Smash I have not played either. But I know that Star Wars launched pretty bad but it has gotten better over the last year. I'm sure you'll make the right pick though :)
I don't agree with you, but I'll be honest. You are well articulated, high quality, and pretty good at analysis (despite my disagreements). How do you not evem have 1k subs? Get this man some subs.
Truly one of the nicer comments I have seen. Things like this make someone's day. Maybe i'll get 1k sub one day or another. But hey, right now I just have some fun making videos. Seems like you enjoyed LoTF, which is great! Not something I liked but I know it does have its audience.
The bonfire issue is because ng+ is designed to have less and less vestiges, so its not baiting you, if that vestige isnt there you need that bonfire seed placement, now i prefer the old way but i understand why they made the design choice
Bro getting souls in LOTF is super easy, and I have never had to buy any Umbral seeds in my entire run. Planting a seed is OPTIONAL, and I only did so when I needed to strategically leave the Umbral / Reset my ammo/hp/mana. I think having more mobs changes up the way you think about movement and positioning in the environment.
Good video, I think your criticisms are valid. I think it's worth mentioning that part of the reason why bosses are worth so little is because of how little it costs to level up. I finished the game at level 138. It only costs me around 14k to level up. In Dark Souls, that would cost you over 100k to level.
You can’t compare the two, though. The basic economy is different in both games. Mobs give less “souls” in lords and it costs less to level up. If it costs 140k to level up and a mob gives you 5000 it’s exactly the same as it costing 14k and a mob giving you 500. If I compared this to elden ring I would say overall so far it’s probably a little easier to level in lords, but they are still different in many ways.
You in umbral time to time which gives you higher modifier and if you going do those umbral puzzles too. More time spent the higher it goes. Souls only got one modifier which is the ring that boost soul gain
For me the relative positive reception is a surprise. It has the worst enemy variety, absolute absymal way of creating artificial difficulty, and mechanically the game plays pretty bad, from the animations, the floatiness of your character, the length of your dodge etc, but also the moveset of enemies and bosses are insultingly easy (which somehow is a relief considering how bad it is to control your character),. The aesthetics are (really) nice, sometimes interesting leve design, it has some of the ambiance of the early From Soft games, which is probably why people overlook all the bad design. I wish I could. It certainly is not all terrible, some bosses are decent to good, but having fun playing this, no, not me.
The mixed reviews of this game actually make me want to play it more lol. I want to experience this game’s ups and downs and see how I feel about it. I dig the art direction and some of the levels look compelling. The bonfire planting sounds interesting but seems to have been mishandled (though some love it). Thank you for this video! It was interesting and I will probably pick this game up now. I might love, I might hate it. With the wide range of reviews, who knows. Big Ups! I dig your work here.
One thing I dislike is I went into ng+ with 150 000 vigor, walked off a ledge. As soon as I hit x to pick it up I got invaded and you can’t recover vigor while invaded
Another ridiculous thing we could vent about is how obtuse and intentionally malicious NPC questlines are...like they took their inspiration from DS1 questlines but they had to double down on "outsouls"ing it so they just made them more ridiculous than the Solaire questline was. The infamous "you take this elevator right behind the boss and you fail two NPC questlines and lose out on a vendor immediately - one of which you have never even seen or heard of up until then - but in order to progress correctly you have to go all the way to said boss..then turn back for no reason instead of taking that giant elevator right in front of you". Classic.
A very good take on the game. I've been enjoying it myself but I'm not blind to the frustrating mobs, random boss encounters that aren't boss encounters and the lack of enemy models.
I loved this game. It's so much better since it's been patched. I think it will be in a very good place in a couple of weeks (considering there's a patch every day).
@@Finlandpro1this game has things that legitimately make it "bad" or have things that are actual issues. Such as performance issues. The dodge roll is not one of those issues and does not make the game bad. You just don't like it.
I dont like the ds1 comparison of hub areas: main reason ds1 hub was better is because you could go in different ways to explore the world and you couldn't travel between bonfires until you defeat epic duo - here you HAVE TO go to Pilgrim's Perch first because other roads are closed and why the hell do i need a shortcut when i can go to hub from every vestige and its faster to teleport to another location's vestige rather than run all the way from Skyrest? There's no need to revisit levels so wth?
The thing i dislike of this game the most is how easy the bosses are. The thing about these type of games that i love is struggling with a boss and the feeling of finally beating it
The peppering of vestiges really showed they had no idea what they were doing with their checkpoint system. It really is no wonder vestige seeds can be bought and farmed. Because they knew these seedbeds would cause frustrations. I just wish they also had the foresight to not have so many ledges to fall off of in a game this slippery. I died to gravity more than anything else in this game.
I've played all the souls games, and I love it. Yes its different, thank god. Who wants to play the same game over and over ( looking at you players with hundreds of hours). I found the combat faster than ER (devil may cry did the combat), and I personally hated the open world of ER. This was a connected, world of puzzles and passages like the original DS1-3. Lotf has traditional elements and new. Best souls like I've played outside the fromsoft games. Can't wait for more improvements and DLC over time. Almost ready to start NG+, I'm excited for all the new challenges.
Glad you enjoyed it. Nothing wrong with enjoying this game. I know it was somewhat split down the middle. Other content creators liked it, but it wasn't for me. Hopefully you enjoyed your future playthroughs and whatever else the franchise offers.
For hushed saint if you pulled out the lamp you could burst parasites and they would explode him off the horse making the fight more engaging. It’s like you didn’t even try to really play to the fullest
I think one of the problem with high mob density in souls-like games are they block your movement and mess up the camera and view. If the game allows player to force your way out instead of being man caged, high mob density is ok for me
I am surprised at how many people don't realize how damage works in this game. Virtually all weapons have the same movement sets based on their weight/encumbrance. It takes specific # of hits to kill each particular enemy unless you are running an elemental build. The damage of weapons is the same based on what level they are at. Developers clearly took a shortcut, reasons behind it are unknown to me.
I’m more frustrated in how the ai animations is for lies of p. It’s more of am I facing a player? Or am I facing a bot that just hacks knowing where I am?
Lords of the Fallen is just Dark Souls 1 if every level was Anor Londo and they put every enemy in the game in every single level. If it wasn’t for all of that, this game would be top-tier I still really like it, however, the co-op experience is pretty janky. I also very much love the bonfire system in this game. Sometimes in co-op, I drop vestige seeds for people, and help them with where to go.
@@TimothyGod the level design is incredibly similar to DS1, as most- if all levels lead back to the “Firelink Shrine” of the game. Coming out the backside after Pilgrims Perch was a really cool experience. Very similar to DS1 in that aspect, however the levels are much more confusing.
The biggest issue I found with the elite enemies, is that they do not drop enough vigor to warrant killing them. The most tanky enemies in the game all drop pennies, and you'll get most of your vigor from bosses and umbral husks. And it's clear that it's a consequence of the enemy density. And if you compare vigor gain from an early game husk to a late game one, you quickly realize, your vigor gain from normal enemies does not go up much over the course of a playthrough.
I am about 2/3rd through the game and the most efficient way to earn vigor is still killing that one spikehead near the bell vestige over and over again. The last game that messed souls economy up this badly was DeS with the wraith at the entrance to 4-2.
It's a collection of small things that when combined they make a huge mountain and for me the game was more frustrating and tedious than fun. Like buying vigor skulls this feature is available in Sekiro which was amazing you pay 200 and you get 200 coin pouch exactly. So in this game you 3000 and you get 1600? Why? Why is it a rip-off? What's the point? And that's why I have no faith in these devs they1 really don't get the appeal of Fromsoftwere souls game design they really don't, and so often you get these things, the frustrating for the sake of being frustrating, the hard for the sake of being hard, the trolling for the sake of trolling. The appeal of dark souls and games like it is the triumph against hardships, the light at the end of the tunnel, the idea of at first what seemed impossible is now easy. I never got this once during my two full playthroughs, the game has a lot of cool weapons and spells which makes me want to play it but playing it is actually annoying as heck and not fun at all.
I want to argue that there IS a use for the purchasable vigor consumables. You are limited to 5 vestige seeds no matter what, it will let you try to buy more than just 5 which will poof. The correct way to stockpile vestige seeds is to convert extra vigor into consumables so they can be consumed and converted into vestige seeds when you need more
Lotf is the perfect game imo, great bosses, great level design and interconnectivity, great weapon mechanics, great graphical fidelity, great weapons and weapon combinations. Also umbral realm was really awesome and I wish more games did something like this. So yeah for me this game is a 10/10 right behind Elden ring or maybe even beside it.
Elden beast is actually pretty decent IMO. Also, the inter-connectivity of lords of the fallen doesn't feel nearly as well done as in dark souls IMO. The levels are huge chunks with half-assed connections built in between. You never even really get to use the connections because of how large the areas are, it would just be a chore. Not to mention the fact that you can fast travel from the start. It's more like DS2 inter-connectivity, so not very good lol.
It seems little complicated for me. I hope I get it with time. Lies of p was so simple straightforward. Also I think I need a new tv it’s so dark my tv don’t fe dark it gets hazy. It’s beautiful tho
Maybe my build was kind of op but I never had problem with the mob density even taking down 2-3 elites at the same time was piece of cake. I literally passed the game with 5-10 bought vestige seeds and that was after the nerf of their price down to 1200 vigor.There are so many vestige seed drops and I was walking around with at least 2-3 seeds at all times. You can collect souls with the lamp using siphon. The optional bosses were literally on your path which for me was kind of cool. You can tell which were the main bosses by the gear you can buy and they were like 10. The real problem in this game in my opinion is the lack of messages by other players which was big help in souls games like warning about gank or item ahead,go back,boss ahead,range required etc you get my point. In this game every man is for himself. Also I can see a lot of people missed the ranged part in this game which plays big role and its very helpful to use. The ranged builds are even viable and very strong like you can deal thousands of damage with single shot. And the ammunition was very easy to replenish. The game is no masterpiece by any means but its a good game in my opinion just has to be played differently than fromsoft games.
I am happy those messages are not in this game, that was one immersion breaker for me to have those everywhere and people spoiling what's ahead. So LOTF get a lot of things right in my opinion and I can't wait for a big DLC where they even go over the main story a bit and put in more exciting elite enemies. It needs a bit more scary knights, trolls and other heavy hitting enemies that make you shit your pants when you see them.
And of course LOTF 2 will be made 100% since this was a huge success for them. It just sucks that Steam review bomb every game lately, this is definitely not a 50% mixed game, people gave up too easy and wasn't gud enough so they bash the game.
@@messiahshow Give it a bit time the review score will go up its already 60% positive and it goes up by 1% every day or two.I trust it will reach 80% positive in time. Also Its not much of a problem for me the lack of communication between players but for many people it seems to be a problem for them to get lost.
Amazing video.. love the game but I do agree with most of your points. It's love hate. Just FYI... You can pull out the lantern and hold L1 (ps5) to collect souls from a pretty good distance. Also with the hushed Saint the gimmick it to use the lantern again to suck up the parasites to knock him off the horse. It's just never explained
Is this game better than Lords of the Fallen 2014? Yes Is this a good Souls-like? No Is it even a good game? Arguably, but personally I would say no. It's decent at best. It has SO many issues that are simply core to the game itself and can't be patched, even if the devs clearly try their best to patch any actual bugs and performance related issues, or balance issues. It's just so clear they had really cool ideas but just don't understand what makes a Souls-like good. What it needs to be successful. And that doesn't mean it has to be the exact same as a Souls-game, Lies of P deviates in many ways from the Souls-formula. What it needs is tight gameplay. Where you have full control over your character. And you simply factually don't in this game. They either are using Root Motion (which they also did in 2014, though back then it was a LOT worse) or they simply programmed things manually to be slippery as fuck but it just feels like the character is almost gliding over the ground. Especially with attacks you get lunged forward so much, even if the animations are decent, it's just not fun to engage with enemies. On top of that it feels like they took note of the worst Dark Souls, Scholar of the First Sin, and thought "if we just fill every area with gank, it'll be good, right?". Enemy placement feels random, unwarranted and just way too many at every turn. It makes areas not fun to explore because at every corner there could be another 5-6 enemies instantly on you, meaning you have to play incredibly slow. Then there's the cool idea of the two worlds, but then them just absolutely missing the mark with that too, making it a confusing shit show. They show you how it works once and then it's just "have fun, figure it out", which huge mechanics like that should never have, there should be a gradual exploration of how something like that works, with spending more and more time there to get accustom to the two different worlds. It's not a terrible game, I think it looks bland but the textures and cloth physics and such are nice at least. However even though I got this game for free I genuinely wish I could get my money back :')
Listen, this is the way to do a negative review. I really enjoy this game as I've already put over 100 hours into it, and even did a NG+ playthrough before they patched the bonfires back in. So, I've been living and breathing this game and lots of RUclips content related to it. There are plenty of other negative reviews out there, as this game is deeply polarizing, but they have been rather dreadful, in my opinion. What this review does that few others do is state preference as opposed to "fact" and isn't presented with a condescending tone that implies if you like this game you're "basically fucking stupid." Other reviews sound like "This game is shit, and you're shit if you like it." They even literally fight with viewers in the comments. My hope for this game going forward is that the devs get a chance to build on what they've succeeded at, rethink what might not work as well, and get another chance at building something even more people can enjoy in the future.
I don't agree with everything, like I don't mind vestiges (bonfires) that much, you get seed after every boss and I always have at least one ,,just in case", it feels like a good way of keeping player ,,on the edge". However, I do think it's quite fair review. Something in the artstyle made me super excited about this game, at first couldn't stop playing, but every session got tired quicker than with Eldenring, Dark Souls3 or Dark Souls1 which I have finished for the first time few weeks ago (I recently got obssesed about souls games, I'm definietly not a pro on the topic tho) I hope the devs will have the chance to make another soulslike game, I think they have a lot of great ideas. I hope people will play it and give it a chance. And I will try to finish this game, although it often feels tedious... For now, I have much more fun playing Dark Souls 2 for the first time.
Yeah.. really keeping players on their feet by making them go farm vestige seeds every so often... Its piss poor design. It should have been a mechanic primarily for ng+ when you know where you are going
I’m with you on this one. I think it’s an alright soulslike, but how people are putting this over any fromsoft game that isn’t DS2 is beyond me. There seems to be a lot of people that are exaggerating their love of the game because they feel the need to justify their hype and $70 they spent. I laughed out loud when the final boss of the game was just more ad spam and then a text ending. Bosses were a major disappointment for me as well. I do think this game is more approachable for that since they are almost all a joke and can be beaten pretty mindlessly.
Brother, you are taking minutes to explain how your "bonfires" costs you 2500 vigour each while not explaining to your audience that you can go into umbral and farm the moths for those. You can literally have 10 in less than 15 minutes if you want and be ok for the rest of the game. At least be honest, or maybe you just didn't play enough to know this in the first place. You also say that the devs don't plan on changing the mob density people have issue with when they ARE releasing a patch for it.
You're not the only one who's negative about LotF. In fact it seems more popular to hate the game as time goes on even though patches are being worked on to address everyone's issues with the game. I think the core game is solid, weapons and magic are better than the souls' equivalents. I do think the game was released in a bad state and could have avoided some of the negative publicity by hold off the release. For an $80 game, it shouldn't have had so many issues at launch.
After having gotten the achievement for collecting all weapons, I can safely say that 90% of them are mathematically not even worth picking up. I was farting around with Cheat Engine to build and limit test them and the majority of weapons are functionally worthless compared to like 10 weapons. Pieta's sword, Light reaper swords, the big ass popsicle stick sword, Harrower Dervla's sword, Judge Cleric's Corrupted Sword and the eyeball umbral hammer outdamage pretty much everything else in the game. The magic system feels good to use, but the catalysts have the same problem as the weapons do. Lost Berescu's Catalyst is just straight up the best, on any build. The hardcap for damage stats is 75. LB gets an A- scaling in both Radiance and Inferno and will have like 1000+ spellpower at level 140 with 75/50. You can hit 2k damage on Sundered Monarch with a basic spell. Whole fight took less than a minute. That's just the balancing and scaling issues. There's also no fucking item box. For an $80 game, they should be giving refunds to anyone who wants one, regardless of play time.
good game - just was priced as a great game lol - if this game was $39.99 id be totally happy with my experience - but it was way too glitchy and still is
Agree with a few of your points but mostly disagree with your overall "Analysis". Lets examine it a bit closer. 1. The original Lords of the Fallen was liked and to date is still the best selling non-Fromsoft Soulslike game with over 3 million sales. The game was a fun if flawed effort from a small developer with a limited budget. 2. The sequel was in development from a few weeks after the release of the original game, it was never "Dead in the Water". The split between CI Games and Deck 13 (about 6 months after launch) knocked the plans back a few years. Otherwise we would have had the sequel in 2017. 3. Level Design is probably the best I have seen since Bloodborne and the original Dark Souls. In other words Level Design is better than every other Fromsoft game to date. This Lords of the Fallen links back as much as either of those aforementioned games. 4. The (Bonfire) Vestige Seed design is fantastic. They effectively removed maybe 1-2 hypothetical bonfire areas but give you 5-6 potential areas to plant a Vestige Seed. The game then indeed uses "Bonfire Bait" to get you to use Vestige Seeds early or unnecessarily. Preying on your fears. Bosses drop Vestige Seeds, meaning you always start the next level with at least one. People who push on are rewarded with not having to spend 2500 Vigor for extra seeds. The cost of the Vestige Seeds is perfectly balanced so that you think twice about buying them or leveling up. 5. I do agree Enemy Variety is lacking, especially mid-late game. However, this is a problem in virtually ALL souls games, including Dark Souls, including Elden Ring. Could it use more enemy designs though, absolutely. Its one of the weakest facets of the game (performance problems aside). 6. (As someone else mentioned) You can pick up far away Souls/Vigor by raising your lantern. 7. Mob Density is perfect as it is. Is it slightly annoying - yes, that's the point of groups of weak enemies - to harass and annoy the player. Mob layout where ranged attackers hang back is also perfect. It was perfect back when Dark Souls did this (Undead Burg and other areas) it was perfect when Bloodborne did this (Central Yharnam among others). 8. Boss enemies with no cut scene are MINI-Bosses. They become regular enemies later in the game. This is a staple of basically EVERY Souls-like including even Elden Ring. 9. I thought most bosses were extremely fun fights, even the Hushed Saint. While not super challenging, neither are they frustrating and the hybrid Souls-Sekiro parry system makes the boss battles really cool - such as knocking Hushed Saint off his Horse. Speaking of which the Hushed Saint backing off for 10 seconds hardly compares to the frustration of the Elden Beast. 10. While Demons Souls had some great bosses (for a variety of reasons), it also had some stinkers. Personally I think Pieta is a better fight than the Penetrator Boss. I also enjoyed the Spurned Prodigy spectacle boss more than the Tower Knight. Congregator is a far better fight than either Leechmonger or Dirty Colossus, and before you say "so you are saying Lords of the Fallen bosses are better than a Fromsoft game from 14 years ago" - EVERY Fromsoft game has good AND bad bosses - right up to Elden Ring. Are the best Fromsoft Bosses better, yes. but most major bosses in LotF are great spectacle and fun challenges (for the average player). 11. The claim of 31 bosses is a bit misleading - personally I don't like counting Mini-Bosses towards that total. Lords of the Fallen probably has a number of unique bosses close to the nineteen of Dark Souls 3's (which I agree had some amazing bosses) plus a dozen or so mini-bosses. Elden Ring had about 31 main bosses and over 20 mini-bosses that get reused multiple times with many later becoming regular enemies. So if you criticise the mini-bosses as part of the Boss List you have to do that for every Fromsoft game too. 12. Agree with you on Perfect Parrying. At the very least it should cause less wither build up. My analysis of your analysis is that overall most of your points simply don't hold up to scrutiny. Performance issues aside, the game is great in virtually every department except for introducing new enemies mid-late game.
The Vestiges are spread out with 3-6 vestige seed beds in between them. The Lies of P comparison- y’all don’t realize you are telling on yourselves. P is like Babies first souls game while LotF is much more challenging. Anyone who says “I play for the challenge” then says P is the best soulslike they’ve played doesn’t play for the challenge.
@dginc.4582 this way of thinking is dumb. Opinion is the lowest level of knowledge. Objectibly, the game presents mechanics that are good enough to enjoy the game, something else is not getting them right because expecting them to be as soulslike as possible, when the game really is only inspired ins such thing, not trying to copy it. Besides, a really good story is presented.
Yeah wasn’t my thing, found A LOT of issues. Bad pacing, level design is lazy IMO and my save was corrupted 3 times with performance being terrible. Tried to get a refund but tried to give the game a fair shot for too long apparently so I’m unable to get refunded for it. Not very pleased
Little correction: once you kill an enemy you can pull out your lamp and R1 into the direction of the souls. Then they get sucked up
Not even in the direction, just pulls them from everywhere
It blows my mind how many people managed to get through the entire game without ever figuring this out. I tried it in like the first five minutes of playing lol.
It seems or at least from what I've seen the people that have these sort of complaints just haven't figured them out properly...
@@phantomlotus1323same
@phantomlotus1323 does the game tell you? If not then it's still bad design
Man I’m a souls fan hardcore and I loved this game. I thought the bosses were awesome. I loved the unbroken promise, sundered monarch, reinhold, judge cleric, congegrator of flesh. All but a few of the bosses that are used as enemies have really cool designs. The music too was so good especially for the unbroken promise that gave me goosebumps. Also, elden ring reused bosses and enemies hardcore sooooooo ya lol
I’ve only fought 2 rememberances that I thought were lame, Tree sentinel clone and the spirit girl in the ice zone. I thought the rest were really well made.
@@ChuckFinelyForeverYeah the horse was lame until I learned you can knock him off the horse by using lamp on the parasites when he ride at you. Then he gets knocked off and you stop that boring riding cycle. He is not optimal fun to fight but at least he's not the most boring boss in the world after I figured that out.
The designs are good. Their animations and mechanics are not.
I appreciate you
@@messiahshowYou can also take him down with a headshot or a parry to the boss
In regards to the vestige seeds if you're buying them you likely aren't spending enough time in umbral I hated the whole system until I just started spending most of the time in umbral and you get tons of seeds from all the fairy creatures.
Yeah this dude missed like 90% of the mechanics in this game dude got lost ffs besides trying to find bramis castle idk how one can get lost "bc of shit map design" like wut
Deacons of the deep as the final boss is just crazy...
Its the easy ending final boss kinda disingenuos that he didnt mention the true final boss elianne also didnt mention judge cleric or dervla makes me think he hasnt even played the game
That depends on what ending you pick, but yes I too was pretty sad that this boss was just killing all the enemies. Although it’s for lore it’s still disappointing.
This video reminds me about what I thought of Dark Souls 1. I didn't understand the appeal until much later!😅
If you get confused, you might want to pay more attention then. In real life, for example, I don't even use a GPS. I look at a map, and know where to go. Games are supposed to strengthen your muscle memory.
Planting your "Bonfires," ended up being very fun. They are everywhere. The strategy I ended up doing was making a blind run throughout a new level, memorizing every seed vestige until I got defeated. Then, I will run back to the same place where I got defeated, and plant a seed at the nearest one.
In the third major area, there's a ton of enemies. After my blind run through, I opened a gate that lead to a visage point, creating a shortcut. I reset the area since I was low on health, ran back, and lured all the enemies to a vantage point, destroying them all within 2 mins. So enemy density wasn't even a problem.
I could go on, those were just a few examples. This game is like a puzzle, there's a strategy for everything.
My point is, this game is as enjoyable for me as Dark Souls 3, no other Soulsborne game has done this for me, and with the newest update, the combat feels better than ever.
U are so right, people hate this game because they just dont like to use brain. I love darksouls but enemies are so weak that it feels like i am hiting a punching bag. Loft has maybe less enemies but much more enjoyable and unique
Thank you. Finally somebody understands vestige seeds. It became pretty clear after the first few levels that you are not supposed to use them up every time you find a new flower bed.
@@valentinvas6454 yes seeds should be used only at rly hard locations where vestiges are far away. I wasted around 5 seeds for no fkin reason and I still have plenty in my pocket in late game
@@wakifilms2592my issue is how do you know how far away a vestige is? I went through a majority of an area looking for another vestige, and nothing. Eventually found a spot for a seed, and I had no resources. Lo and behold ten feet later a vestige. It feels poorly spaced out
What are you talking about?
1: You can gather your lost vigor from far away using lamp
2: Vestige seeds are now 1250(or 1500 i dont remember exactly)
3: Vestige moths (homeward bones) are easily obtained from the trap items by using your lamp attack at the item
But i agree with the anaysis tho
elden ring has the same enemies pattern: yellow knight, red knight, blue knight ecc@dginc.4582
@dginc.4582 what kills me is the enemy density/level design on top of questionable design choices (like Vestige seeds)
It does feel far more grind intense. Than the NG+ just further pushed the grind aspect of it.
It's more tedious if a game without actually being any more difficult just drawn out.
the grind is real
18:56 So you just complained about the Hushed Saint being annoying because you couldn't attack him while he was riding his horse, but now you ask for a boss that needs you to get in and out of Umbral to defeat him. Guess what, I'll invite you to replay that boss and try that Umbral thing you just asked for. Same for the complaint about not being able to collect vigor on ennemies you kill from far away, try to use Umbral lamp and you won't have to complain about that again. However there are some good points in your video like ennemy variety being terrible.
Just wanted to say you can suck up the souls enemies drop by shining the lantern at them. You don't have to walk over them. But it still was an unnecessary change from the formula that I disagree with.
Using your Umbral Lamp will recover your vigor from far away. Enemies have long range, so do you. The developers have given us a lot of tools to defeat these enemies, all that remains is to use them better. People go into this game thinking of using a big sword and just bashing without analyzing the environment.
None of that excuses everything else.
@@johndodo2062I dont see any of the other things listed to be huge problems, the bosses are a bit easy thats about it.
Everything else isnt a big deal, the bonfires being few and far between is easily worked around by using the seeds and the seeds and a big as a deal to come by as he made out.
Also vestige moths (homeward bones) pile up if you kill the mimics.
Cope, that literally doesn't excuse many of the game's problems
Also, what do you mean "analyze the environment", the game looks so fucking similar at every turn that it's hard to tell where the fuck you are
@blinkachu5275 it doesn't excuse other problems it has. But the example you gave is not a problem of the game. The guy is simply mentioning how many things people are criticizing are not actually problems. The only problems I see are performance issues, bugs, maybe the vestiges lacking on NG+ and maybe bosses being too easy. Other than that, most of the criticism seems unfair to me, and it's just people shitting on the game because they don't like it.
I haven't finished the video, so I am not talking about the person who made the video. I am talking about people in general.
A very honest review. Thank you. I was getting smoke blown up my ass by some folks and was on the fence about which one to buy. Lies if P looks so much more fun and diverse.
Great video! You got yourself a new subscriber! 👍🏼
Thank you for the kind words :]
Lies of p is a much better game & I’ve only played the demo. I own lords.
I'm enjoying Lords of the Fallen, especially compared to the first one.
One thing I love about LotF over DS3/Elden Ring, was the actual amount of supporting items and mechanics that help Caster builds. You have several different ways to build your Caster, rather than trapped to fluffing up your damage numbers.
i agree with you 100% on everything you mentioned here. That being said, i do love the feel, the grit, ambience and tones of the game and that alone, personally, i think carries it through its faults. Coming from Lies of P and how amazing and polished that game is, i had a hard time relating to a puppet and feeling like I am the one making the decisions and experiencing the world. This alone made the experience more enjoyable in LOTF.
Honestly a perfect review in my mind. Only difference in my opinion being bosses - Pieta & Judge Cleric were the only good bosses in my mind.
I don’t understand the excuses people give for this games boss design saying it reminds them of demons souls as if that’s a good thing. That game came out in 2009 & boss design in these games have evolved drastically since then, it’s embarrassing not a positive.
And I don’t know if you noticed, but playing the game as a quality build, scaling felt COMPLETELY off. I was level 100 by end game and my maxed out Harrower colossal boss sword was hitting for 300 damage on trash mobs, taking 2-3 hits to kill, while my Lump hammer throwing hammer with WORSE SCALING would hit the same mobs for 1500, A CARPENTERS HAMMER IS DEALING 5X THE DAMAGE OF MY GREAT SWORD.
"I don’t understand the excuses people give for this games boss design saying it reminds them of demons souls as if that’s a good thing. "
Because some people, including me, prefer the old era of Souls games that are much more methodical and slow. Souls combat has become way too fast and frenetic in my opinion, so something designing their game after the old generation is a perfect fit for me.
Lies of P is indeed much more polished than this. It runs flawlessly, i love the fluidity of the animations and the guard system is neat too. The levels were simple and tbh i didnt love them that much, but the bosses are really top tier ❤ definitely quality over quantity. I will not soon forget Laxasia as she screams and lauches lightning at you at the beginning of 2nd phase, such a hype boss.
i havent found myself ever wanting to buy those bonfire seeds so im confused about that complain. also, everytime you kill a boss, you receive one of those seeds most of the time.
7:21 couple comments - if your in Umbral a lot the game is very liberal at dropping vestige seeds. The moth enemies almost always drop seeds if your not already full at the cap of 5. Also to address this feedback the devs have dropped the cost of seeds to 1100 vigor I believe. Not much at all. A single larger enemy in late game areas.
Also as far as the amount of souls dropped. I kind of understand this feedback. However I’d like to point out the cost of levels rise much less quickly than traditional souls. At level 130 I’m only spending around 15k per level. I feel Elden Ring ramped up costs of runes much faster for levels. However all that said… I still always run the moth ring to increase vigor drops and the runes on my weapons to further increase the drops. So it’s obvious even I wish souls dropped faster. I was also over-leveled most game because of this.
Lastly… as far as vestige seed bait and placement…. There is always a path the appears after any named boss. You learn quickly that there will be a better spot to place a seed shortly after early game. Those patches are only if you feel you absolutely need a refresh right that second. However I almost never felt that way after very early game because I quickly learned there would be a better spot soon.
Also I don’t necessarily feel like having too many seed patch options is bad. It means you have more options. Most spots will work. Just because there’s a spot shortly ahead of a few enemies doesn’t mean the patch you dropped won’t work just as well. Even if you do decide to drop another…at the high rate of seed drops from moths and decreased cost… there is no reason you could spend a couple thousand souls to top up your seeds feel more comfortable with options going forward.
My biggest complaint in this game is the NPC quest design. They are convoluted like Fromsoft games… however they have fail states that are way to east to achieve accidentally… or force you to adjust you play in unenjoyable ways.
For example Byron asked me to find a pendant and not 10 minutes later fought a boss guarding a giant elevator. It was clear there would be a vestige up top… but there was an entire area below to explore. To explore below you needed to defeat the boss to get a key. I chose to go up the elevator to refresh heals and head back down. Byron was at the top telling me he found it and I failed the quest. Literally in 10 minutes I failed the quest.
There’s an NPC quest named Kukajin. To finish her quest you need to die or warp out after starting like 7-8 main boss fights. Then you need to summon kumajin to fight with you and pay her around a 3rd of the boss runes each time.
I did not want to fight with NPC help… I wanted to fight the bosses myself and keep the souls. But to do her quest I had to make both of those sacrifices. I’m addition if you beat a boss first try… you would never know she was summonable for those bosses because the NPC summon ghosts don’t appear until you’ve initiated the boss fight most.
I get easily missed NPCs are convoluted quests like with Fromsoft games. They can be frustrating and difficult to discover without a guide. However I feel this game took it to the extreme by making fail states be extremely simple to accidentally trigger. It also made you alter the way you enjoy fighting bosses by summoning NPCs for those fights versus challenging yourself fighting it on your own.
I really enjoyed this game. There was certainly a lot of frustrating about this game. I’m hoping the developers learn from feedback and make a sequel. I feel like if they take feedback to heart like they have been since the game released…. They could truly make an incredible souls like to rival Fromsoft
I like a large world to explore with plenty to do and a map however in lords of fallen there was certain areas that were not clearly marked out or obvious as where to go, this was a frustration
Fair enough. I think I commented about this within this video. Now my favorite game. But hey, I know some people genuinely enjoyed this game. More power to them!
@@CosmicEye597 yeah looking for elden ring dlc hopefully we will see a elden ring 2
@@1000mjf I am desperately waiting for ER dlc lol. ER 2 would be great, too.
From 3:16, I cant help but listening to the Dark souls 2 music in the background and dream of the good memories of how good experience it was at that time playing that game. I know many people complains about it. I have never understood why, but for me it was the perfect game. The atmosphere was unlike anything else and the PvP is in my opinion the best that has ever been in this genre. I really miss how much i enjoyed that game.
This!!! DS2 ist still my favorite and LotF brought back so many memories of me playing DS2 😊
I loved ds2, i went back to get the platinum not to long ago and had the best time
Had more fun with DS2 than any of the other souls game combined.
I see alot of people mention the seeds when they drop from the flying things in umbral and they drop items every time they die and you can only hold 5 seeds and the flowerbeds are used for Ng+ as there is only the skyrest vestige
U can hold unlimited seeds
I am a soulsborne fanatic and I had high hopes for this game. I enjoyed the first few areas, but then everything got so monotonous. Also the lock on mechanic sucks. I much prefer Lies of P, in fact, I stopped playing Lords of The Fallen and am now concentrating instead on getting the Platinum in LOP.
Almost all of your criticism about this game is either about it not doing things like Dark Souls 3, or you personally disagreeing with the developers' decisions about the balancing. Case and point, perfect parries doing whither damage. It doesn't matter that you personally don't like it. This is what the developers wanted the combat experience to be like. The same goes for vestiges and vestige seeds. The levels are long and grueling, and the odds are stacked heavily against you. This is intended, you just don't like it. However, if you actually clear everything, you are rewarded with tons of vigor and important loot, especially if you're dying and gathering your vigor back from where you fell. Failure is expected in these games, after all. If you actually play the video game, you won't have to lament the bosses dropping so few souls by contrast.
It really just sounds like you wanted to force this game to play like DS3, and when it didn't bend, your impatience drove you to running through levels because you just didn't respect the fact they would dare have a different design philosophy to From. Your impatience and refusal to engage with the game is what sullied your experience, not the game itself. It's almost as if you've grown too comfortable with how From design their games, and when an outsider does something different, you either resort to calling it just plain wrong design, or you forego adapting to the new rules and just ignore the content you don't like to rush the game and beat it.
Far too much comparison being made to Ds3 here for a game that is absolutely not Ds3, nor is it attempting to be. Personally, Ds3 is the weakest of the franchise in my opinion as it is such an, admittedly exceptional, yet standardized and safe action RPG. DeS, Ds1, and Ds2 all had strong survival horror elements to them, what with the hazardous level design, overwhelming enemies, and complex areas. Ds3 far too often coasts in on autopilot, often presenting stages of combat puzzles for you to solve with your toys. Rarely it does up the ante, such as in the Painted World or the Catacombs, but Ds3 largely abandoned the survival horror aspect of its roots for a more head-on ARPG experience.
This aspect of survival horror, which I think is an unsung defining trait of the franchise, is what I believe Lords was attempting to capture with these design decisions. Personally that made me incredibly pleased with the game as a whole. It was very experimental, and innovation is desperately needed in this genre if it is to evolve.
Ds3 had me worried upon release as I wondered if From had fallen into a comfort zone. Thankfully they clearly haven't and still have an insatiable desire to innovate themselves. It's good they have competition, if you can call it that, as they will surely look to what others are doing for inspiration.
Regarding the door blocked by the rock that you need to return to eventually in the late game, it sounds like you eventually figured out this was where to go through a process of elimination. I have not gotten that far in my play-through yet, but imo it seems like the game gives you the tools you need to figure it out, albeit if you’re playing close attention.
I say that because on the map fragment for that area it shows a picture of that previously-blocked door with an “X” over the image, meaning you’re not going there yet initially. Also near that image is a set of five red tally marks (the four vertical lines with the slash through it). I took that to signify the five beacons, and once you’ve cleansed them you will return to this (presumably) now-unlocked gate.
I could be wrong, like I said I’m not there yet, but it makes sense to me and I’d honestly be surprised if I was wrong. I really haven’t had problems with either progressing through areas or progressing through the world, just by being thorough in my exploration. And it seems like the map fragments, as you acquire them, are automatically ordered in terms of a seemingly “preferred progression” route, which is something I appreciated and used to stay on track. The map fragments are honestly something I found far more useful than I initially would’ve thought.
U are absolutely spot on shit ive over 400 hrs in thus game and i didnt know that the gate shows u that stuff lol on my 1st playthrough i just went back there bc of byron and seen the locked door
A lot of the criticisms made are valid and some I agree with, but the 'you have to walk to collect your souls' is wrong (Though not your fault either). You can use your lamp to collect your souls from a distance, this isn't explained to the player and it certainly should have. Mob variety is also pretty bad, they're variants of each other with their resistances changed depending on their faction.
My biggest gripe is the ability to feel tanky from just the armour you wear. You have armour values in the hundreds and it feels like it does nothing. The numbers are greatly inflated and the only enemy that feels like it doesn't do damage to me, are the umbral swarm zombies. Demon souls made me feel tanky from the start against most enemies if I was wearing heavy armour. With the density of mobs in this game, armour should have a far more profound impact. I should not be dying to swords in 2-3 swings in heavy armour.
You know you can vacuum your souls right? You don’t have to touch them. Also, why are you buying vestige seeds? I almost always have five at all times…I’ve literally never purchased one.
How do we tell him about NG+ vestiges.
It's on purpouse to increase difficulty. Also because of ppl complaining about it they work for some way to fix it. They care about their customers.
@@janog.5170 It didn't make it more difficult, it made it more tedious. I stopped playing 4 months ago.
I don't think "bonfire bait" mechanics is intentional. I think it's a consequence of another bad game design choice, the NG+ without vestiges. When there are no vestiges those spots make perfect sense.
and the bonfire mechanic is smart it force people to learn how is made the level.... often you can cross a large part if not all the area without really need one. it's tricky but doable.
and like said, the bonfire in ng+ are take out little by little now... meaning all this vestige seed place will be important and be strategic.
another point umbral is not the whole level some part can be blocked in umbral while open in axiom, don't happend often but it happend.
@@Beldhan this mechanic would be smart if the level design along with enemy placement were not feeling like a chore. For me this game is am emotional rollercoaster. I really want to like it but I endnup being annoyed by it.
lol this is so funny, i think this seed bait is very awesome, because it makes you think twice, if you want to seed or walk some stepps and see if there is something else. i love it when i sometimes find out it was a good choice not to seed and walk a bit more. or when i see, oh no, no way i have to go back and seed it or i will get rekt. i can tell you, everyone who cries about this mechanis is a absolutely ridiculous kid, that needs some milk from mommy. i just cant... most of these people came from hard games like dark souls 1-3 or elden ring and they really cry about such a mechanic, that let you use a bit of your brain and makes the game a bit harder? the seeds are very valuable items, so use them cautious with your brain. they even let you buy them how many you want, they did this 100% for cry kids like this, that would have said the game is shit, because you cant use 1000 seeds on every corner. all i can tell to these kids is, grow some balls and stop cry.
@@rallzam you need to chill out with your toxic sperg out. As I originally said the "bait" mechanics is basically not a thing. The flower bed locations are chosen around NG+ and make perfect sense. I don't think I ever had to use more than 3 seeds per location.
@@not_your_business666 you said its not intentional, which is a joke to me. there are flowers on the floor and right behind the corner is a main bon fire. and you call this not intentional lol? they did this like on every main bon fire and this is not intentional? they did it 100% intentional, to teach people to use their brain and use the seeds with caution.
and then you call it "another bad game design choice" which is the point i made in my post before. kids call everything a bad game design, when they dont understand it, or when it need some brain to do it.
Highly agree with this analysis. Was surprised to see someone has the same thought as me about the umbral puzzle where you have to light your lamp, and walk a bit, then purposely fall down the ledge below by deselecting the lamp. As it stands right now, there are no "umbral puzzles" that get more complex than that one found in the early hours of the game.
Glad I am not alone on wanting something like that lol.
For the amount of subscribers you have i have to commend you for putting out such a good quality video and i hope your channel gains more traction than it is getting now!
Sorry for the late reply. But thank you for your kind comment! Nice to read stuff like this :).
damn I love this game so much, great combat, great exploration, great music, great world design, and great aesthetic that's so dark and weird... it always feels so cool and stressful being in umbral, and the exploration puzzles are amazing, with so many shortcuts... really not sure what people were expecting with this game, I've had so much fun with it
I agree, people just can't stand when a game called a soulslike isn't exactly a 1:1 replica of Dark Souls. I feel like they should stick to their guns a bit because they are building something we don't fully know how to play yet and what it can become (playstyle, pacing, tactics etc). If they tweak this to death too early because of Dark Souls fanboys it might lose it's identity and what it could become.
Yeah this video is irrelevant when theirs ppl that actually like the game! I’m new to the dark souls games and I like this more than Elden Ring! I mean it has its flaws but what game don’t get better and stop crying it’s always ways around the flaws… hate when ppl try to take away from the game because it’s not like another game smh RUclipsrs act like they can make better games
@@messiahshowthat's not the issue of you looked at people's complaints
@@TimothyGod dude the complains are beyond ridiculous. im a souls vet, i played all of them dark souls 1, dark souls 2, dark souls 3, bloodborn and elden ring all of these are awesome. i also liked dark souls 2, it was not as good as the others, but i had fun with it. but i can tell you, i just finished lord of the fallen yesterday and i have to say, i had the most fun in a souls game ever. i had not a single bug, the world looks stunning on a good pc, the fights are much fun, you just have to learn how to deal with each of them. the sound design is beyond, the footsteps or when you roll around with heavy armor, when you walk in differen rooms, the reverb of the room changes. the dark atmosphere is insane, its so hard to make every level dark and dirty but still beautiful and they had to design the level 2 times, one in normal and one in umbral, its like 2 games in 1.
i love this game and will start today another new run. im not the ng+ kind of guy. i think the hate the game is getting is by kids that have no self-consciousness. they hear from some kid "i hate this in this and this in the game" so the other kid, start the game playes 10 minutes, stopps and go to the internet and say the same bs what the first kid said. its the snowball-effect. the people should just play and dont listen too others.
@@rallzam I agree with you, this game sucked me in like no other soulslike have done. There is a certain vibe to it that is really cool. I also agree with sound, party might be the weakest sound in the game but overall their sounddesigner is a genius. Like you say every cave, hall etc have the right reverb and the ambience and graphics to match. It is a really beautiful game overall. Not perfect (enemy variety/elite enemies) but a damn good first shot at the game.
Find kinda fun the feeling of choosing where to put the vestige seeds, because there is always some where just up ahead, so (for me) it is a question of skill and gamble
Used all my seed descending the torture tower xD
I liked the first one. It was a bit slower, but it had weight to it. I found it to be almost as good as The Surge (their second soulslike).
they should make the pseudo boss not respawnable, it takes time to kill them while having to deal with their minion everytime we respawn
Personally I didn’t find the interconnected world all that interesting, mostly because it doesn’t amount to much. Outside of the shortcut to Calrath, are there any significant connections between levels? You’ll never use a bonfire in one level, use a shortcut and end up in another level. Perhaps I’m forgetting one, but must levels, in terms of the progression path, are linear
The "interconnected world" suffers greatly because you can't really freely explore. What's the point of an "open world" if there's no open exploration? You can't choose your path. You're required to follow a more or less linear progression path.
Yeah, you can technically go from A to D, but usually only after you have already fully cleared out D and looped back around to the beginning.
@@calvinwilson3617completely agree. The one that instantly comes to mind is the path of devotion. Yes it connect back to the hub (which is cool) but it’s useless because you’ll never go back that way
I think the vestige system is great. I love it. It’s high stakes and you gotta be smart about it. I think my only gripe with the game is enemy variety and polish. 8/10 for me
LOTF is my 2nd fav (non from) souls game , right behind Salt and Sanctuary. I looove the atmosphere and geniuenly feel the love behind every tiny aspect of the game. The armor is awesome, tints need to be added to every game ever and the top bosses like tancred, judge and pieta are mad fun to parry and dodge in equal amount. I dont want to yap too much, you're right for most of the points, the other i violently disagree lol . All love, good vid meow meow
I also like the heavy emphasis on replayability. I hate finishing games without at least 100 hrs
I was pretty "oke" with most of it, but when i came to bramin castle i lost it. What the hell is up with that area. Ruiners everywhere, crazy sniper priests. 100 dogs. Nah im good. I wil probably never finish this game because of that area.
You made many great points, I agree with all of the bad things you noted about this game especially about the level mobs but there is just something about this game that I love way more than lies of P (I'm about half way through both games)
Some people just have really bad taste
Tbh all lies of p did was make me wanna go back and play bloodborne. Lords of the fallen feels like it has its own identity. Besides most that hate it just wont admit it was just too hard for them. They literally complain about everything this game does that makes it hard and makes darksouls easy. Anyone saying "i beat the game and i hate it" is lying. I saw most "souls streamers" couldnt even get past the 1st boss. But then made hour long videos on why its a bad game lol. They just dont like it because its an actual hard game. All the bogus they say for why its bad is just salty excuses
@@GigaChadDuPlessis 'Anyone saying "I beat the game and i hate it" is lying' is a pretty bold assumption to make. It is ok for people to not like the game. I didn't like LotF but it made me love LoP more than what I initially thought with how polished the game looked even with its flaws. LotF is quite rough around the edges and I really hope they improve it. I came into both LotF and LoP with open mindset and not putting it next to what fromsoft offers. In the end I liked LoP more. LotF reminded me of DS2 which is my least favorite of fromsoft games I have played. LotF has similar philosophy of DS2 where the area you cleared is harder than the area boss itself. I don't remember single boss that gave me trouble whereas I had most trouble navigating through shit ton of enemies. I tried both approaches. When I went strategically killing one enemy at a time, the projectile enemies would have such long range where you couldn't even lock onto them and cheese them with throwables. When I just ran past I got overwhelmed pretty easily with body blocking and ranged enemy stunning me. I had my complaints with LoP as well like slogfest chapter 11, parry window being too strict, level design being quite linear with no room for getting lost even a little, too many 2 health bar bosses etc. But in the end LotF made me appreciate what LoP had to offer. LotF has potential and hopefully devs can realize that they are sitting on a potential goldmine.
Edit: I put the game away for few days/weeks when I reached final area after cleansing 4 beacons and only 1 red was remaining. I couldn't take the ranged enemy bullshit anymore. It was like shrine of amana but every region being like that in the end game.
@@rhrishikeshsane5450 literally every problem people say is wrong with this game can be applied to elden ring too. So no its not bold. Its shows that its not a bad game. Its just too hard for you. But since youre a "souls vet" which are not as hard as fanboys say they are. Your ego wont allow you to admit a game is too hard. Cope🤷♂️
@@GigaChadDuPlessis if it makes my point valid then in my souls/fromsoft games ranking Elden Ring is not even on top. I started off with Elden Ring but its quite lower. If you want to discuss LotF then do that. But all you want to do is call critics as fromsoft fanboys and tell them to git gud and run away. Elden Ring had lots of BS and I called it out . After playing other fromsoft games, I found more stupid things with Elden Ring and called it out. People call Elden Ring as easy but Elden Ring is the hardest of them all imo because of the amount of bullshit it pulls. This still doesn't change that LotF suffers from lots of shortcomings which could've been avoided.
Example: They wanted players to rely on seedlings only in ng+ but the seed bed placements are not good. The video contains 2 perfect examples 1. 2 seedbeds outside Spurred Progeny and 2. Mistress of the Hounds. Another example is Congregator of Flesh where there is a seedbed in the arena. Now given the past experience after Mistress of Hounds boss, I would think maybe there is a vestige right after the boss but I come across a small pond which needs me to go into umbral (if you are not already in there) to proceed. Now there is an umbral memory in that arena but also a statue to come out of umbral iirc. So I may or may not be in umbral. So as a normal player I put down a vestige thinking maybe I need to get a checkpoint before traversing the lake/pond. I do that and proceed forward and then I see a vestige right after that small pond area. So I basically wasted a seedling. The video perfectly calls it as bait. Why not make seedbeds as ng+ exclusive and add more vestige points in ng play or place seedbeds in better spots to not force players to waste seeds in redundant places?
The enemies in normal realm absorb your vigor if you die to them. So to get it back I have to go through the enemies so that I don't get overwhelmed while trying to get them back by killing the enemy that absorbed them. It can get annoying if you are too deep into area and didn't put down a seedling anywhere coz the area only has 1 or 2 main vestige points. Point is it doesn't need to be absorbed by the enemies as it just forces players to keep fighting through mobs to be able to get them back and not get overwhelmed in the process. Half the time I just let go of 2-3k vigor coz I couldn't be bothered with the repeated process of going through and killing enemies again.
It also takes a while to pick up dropped vigor. So I have to wait for an opening in a boss fight to pick up my dropped vigor without taking damage. Even the animation takes like 3 seconds to finish which feels big in crunch moments. What is the use of this other than to annoy the player. Or does it need player to git gud to pick up the vigor? EDIT: I say 'without taking damage' because I don't to spend a sanguinarix because I took damage while trying to pick up my dropped vigor or had to retry it because I got stunned out of the animation.
I launch forward so much with weapon swings. While it helps with clearing hordes of enemies, it becomes the game's biggest annoyance right in the starting area which is basically platforms on cliffside. I fell to my death quite a bit coz I launched myself off the ledge with my weapon swing.
Too many ambushes. The initial area of platforms on cliffside had so many ambushes. Almost every platform had an enemy that would push me off the platform. I tried to be cheeky by destroying the obstacles to expose him but didn't hit him and he managed to push me to my death. By the time I was done with the Pilgrim's Perch, I was master of seeing ambushes. None of the late game ambushes caught me (and this is not an exaggeration) off guard. Even the best hidden ones were hard cleared by me coz Pilgrim' Perch gave me PTSD and prepped me to check each and every corner. Ambushes should be ambushes, if players start expecting it, it is not an ambush anymore but annoyance.
But they did some good QoL things too. The consumables getting replenished is awesome idea. I hope fromsoft adopts it. The ammo pouches are quite awesome as well and game provides plenty of them. I found myself cheesing the mobs majority of the times rather than go and fight them. So thank you to them for having this as an option. The spell casting is so much streamlined and adds a layer of skill to decide what spells you want to take to the fight since you can only have as many buttons assigned for each spell. So you can't take shit ton but can use them very easily. Not dying to wither damage as long as you block is a cool thing that saved me in clutch moments. It was a nice thing to have after coming from LoP. Not giving poison status while walking in the swamp was a welcome change. I loved that since I could take my time with exploring.
I don't mind much about obscure questlines since Elden Ring was the same shit. I don't mind mini bosses appearing as common enemies as Elden Ring did the same.
I think the big problem is, this is not a "resurrection" of the franchise or what have you.
The original Lords of the Fallen was a collaboration between Deck13 and CI Games, but Deck13 were likely the primary developer and after that game they went their own ways. The Surge games are the successors of the original LotF, and flawed as they are there is a clear sense of improvement on the design philosophies of the original LotF, to the extent that The Surge 2 actually holds up very, very well. When it came out around the same time as Code Vein, both games were relatively well-received and I can honestly say each has their own niche, both in comparison to each other but also to the genre as a whole.
In contrast, LotF 2023 was a title that CI Games had been working on for a very long time, having burned through two dev teams in the process before assembling an in-house team to just get it done sooner rather than later. Even saying "well it's an improvement" doesn't feel right because there is so little in common between both games' moment-to-moment gameplay.
im personally loving the game currently on ng+2 but i gotta admit you bring up alot of facts and points. i do love the game and can overlook alot of the smaller things but alot of things i enjoy in the game someone else wont. i disagree with what you said earlier that anyone that is enjoying the game isnt going to like your video. actually quit the opposite nice to see a content creator giving his full honest opinion on the game ( kinda rare now a days ) even tho knowing fan boys will obviously disagree and voice their thoughts lol Awesome video man thoroughly enjoyed hearing your points about the game even tho you didn't like it. more content creators should be as honest as you are
When comparing souls drops from bosses, maybe pay attention the levelup cost is like ten times less in LotF than in DS3?
Also, why at all are you referring to the price of a vestige seed? I was always having 3-5 during all the way as they drop from umbral enemies pretty often.
The hushed saint was one the more enjoyable bosses for me, only after i figured out that you can parry him and he falls off the horse. If i didn't somewhat felt curious or had the urge to experiment. I think i would share the same sentiment about it. But aside from that, i tended to agree with you on most everything else. This game could've been great but in the end it just fumbled the bag for me. I was so sick of this game by the half way point that i stopped experimenting and i made a dual gs build with the lamp socket that gives you infinite poise and i never parried, hardly ever dodged and i just spammed charged heavies like a lobotomite.
Lies of p is head and shoulders above this game in terms of just quality. you may prefer one over the other but i think we can at least agree that there many fundamental things lies of p adopts and changes for itself from the souls formula that are just better.
LOTF is not soulslike its a dynasty warriors hack and slash crap game
Really sick of LOTF comparisons to ds2 simply bc of the mobs. 1. Ds2 enemies are much more varied. 2. Ds2 doesnt spam spawn forever. 3. Enemies will eventually stop spawning & the runback is easy. 4. The level design & mob placement is far better 5. LOTF is so claustrophobic. It gives me a headache 6. Ds2 is much more open & worst case scenario you snipe some from a distance.
I challenge people comparing this to ds2. Play several hrs of LOTF, then ds2. Ds2 is severely underappreciated.
Hard to see because the levels are so dark yet bland and claustrophobic. I 100% agree with you
It’s the most mid game I’ve played in a long time. I Beat it last week and i Just hated the ganks, most bosses, the final boss was awful, repeat enemies/no variety. Just so mid.
Welp. I have to say I am enjoying the game, despite all the frustrations. I think we have the foundations of a wonderful sequel, as long as they take player feedback seriously. I'm having a great time, though every little victory is hard-fought. Maybe they could relax things a bit, for example, reducing enemy damage since we're receiving it from all fronts simultaneously. They went all-in, whereas they should have gone maybe 1/2 in.
Then it should have been released in early access
@@johndodo2062 I can't argue with that. It's a shame the industry has come to this state.
The animations are what did it for me. Theyre really janky, the bosses and players attack animationa lack fluidity, you can tell where one animation ends and the second begins instead of being seamless.
Either that or your player slides around like hes on ice skates
The second swing when using greatswords one-handed killed me more often than any enemy in the game ever could with your character inexplicably shooting forward (and off ledges) during that combo. Hell, the character's feet don't even move during that animation!
Lords of the Jank is the elden beast of souls like games. The witch of Izalith boss is a better boss than the last boss.
Which last boss? Adyr is not the only final boss
@5:53, they changed that. It´s now 1.200 Vigor/Souls
Great video! Editing was so good, really enjoyed watching, keep it up!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you, finally a voice of reason within the community apart from ratatoskr. Cannot even think how people can accept this level of mediocrity and call it a day just because the game belongs to a certain genre. So fucking disappointing
Would you say the game is at least worth it at the current sale of $51.99 usd for the deluxe edition? Already finished lies of p, wo long and blasphemous 2 and am looking for another soulslike. If not, do you have recommendations?
Hi. I am sorry it took me some time to get back to you. With my personal taste, I would have to say no. I wont lie Lords of the fallen was somewhat mixed down the middle. Lot's of content creators liked it such as Zio, Cowboy, Lore hunter and a few others I cant think off the top of my head. So I don't want to say no because it really may be for you. As a hardcore souls fan myself, I would say LOTF would be worth in the $20 range if I wasn't making videos for fun. I personally didn't like it one bit. Although if you're looking for another souls like, I can't think of any that you may have not tried. I am not trying to self promote (I promise) but if you watch my video titled "the futre of souls games" I talk about all the teams that make souls like games. So maybe there is something that grabs your eye. The only game that I can maybe recommend is ASHEN. It's combat is simple but it toyed around with the idea of an OPEN AREA before Elden Ring. If you have any other comments and I don't respond, leave a brand new comment and i'll try to help :)
Sorry to spam you, but I watched this video by Lore Hunter and I want to play this game next. It takes insp from BB
ruclips.net/video/EvE-KjCJokA/видео.html
@@CosmicEye597 Thanks, took a look at your vid and Last Faith looks pretty awesome! I'm also considering Steelrising and Jedi Survivor since both are on sale right now.
@@Goomba_Smash I have not played either. But I know that Star Wars launched pretty bad but it has gotten better over the last year. I'm sure you'll make the right pick though :)
17:57 you can knock him off his horse by popping an entity near the horse with the umbral syphon, kind of user error on that one
You can also parry him off if you got good enough timing
I don't agree with you, but I'll be honest.
You are well articulated, high quality, and pretty good at analysis (despite my disagreements).
How do you not evem have 1k subs? Get this man some subs.
Truly one of the nicer comments I have seen. Things like this make someone's day. Maybe i'll get 1k sub one day or another. But hey, right now I just have some fun making videos. Seems like you enjoyed LoTF, which is great! Not something I liked but I know it does have its audience.
The bonfire issue is because ng+ is designed to have less and less vestiges, so its not baiting you, if that vestige isnt there you need that bonfire seed placement, now i prefer the old way but i understand why they made the design choice
Bro getting souls in LOTF is super easy, and I have never had to buy any Umbral seeds in my entire run. Planting a seed is OPTIONAL, and I only did so when I needed to strategically leave the Umbral / Reset my ammo/hp/mana. I think having more mobs changes up the way you think about movement and positioning in the environment.
I feel like enemys are not scaled to well, i havnt beat the game yet but I am enjoying everything do far. (:
Good video, I think your criticisms are valid. I think it's worth mentioning that part of the reason why bosses are worth so little is because of how little it costs to level up. I finished the game at level 138. It only costs me around 14k to level up. In Dark Souls, that would cost you over 100k to level.
You can’t compare the two, though. The basic economy is different in both games. Mobs give less “souls” in lords and it costs less to level up. If it costs 140k to level up and a mob gives you 5000 it’s exactly the same as it costing 14k and a mob giving you 500. If I compared this to elden ring I would say overall so far it’s probably a little easier to level in lords, but they are still different in many ways.
You in umbral time to time which gives you higher modifier and if you going do those umbral puzzles too. More time spent the higher it goes. Souls only got one modifier which is the ring that boost soul gain
For me the relative positive reception is a surprise. It has the worst enemy variety, absolute absymal way of creating artificial difficulty, and mechanically the game plays pretty bad, from the animations, the floatiness of your character, the length of your dodge etc, but also the moveset of enemies and bosses are insultingly easy (which somehow is a relief considering how bad it is to control your character),. The aesthetics are (really) nice, sometimes interesting leve design, it has some of the ambiance of the early From Soft games, which is probably why people overlook all the bad design. I wish I could. It certainly is not all terrible, some bosses are decent to good, but having fun playing this, no, not me.
The mixed reviews of this game actually make me want to play it more lol. I want to experience this game’s ups and downs and see how I feel about it. I dig the art direction and some of the levels look compelling. The bonfire planting sounds interesting but seems to have been mishandled (though some love it).
Thank you for this video! It was interesting and I will probably pick this game up now. I might love, I might hate it. With the wide range of reviews, who knows. Big Ups! I dig your work here.
Thank you for the nice comment :))))
One thing I dislike is I went into ng+ with 150 000 vigor, walked off a ledge. As soon as I hit x to pick it up I got invaded and you can’t recover vigor while invaded
Another ridiculous thing we could vent about is how obtuse and intentionally malicious NPC questlines are...like they took their inspiration from DS1 questlines but they had to double down on "outsouls"ing it so they just made them more ridiculous than the Solaire questline was. The infamous "you take this elevator right behind the boss and you fail two NPC questlines and lose out on a vendor immediately - one of which you have never even seen or heard of up until then - but in order to progress correctly you have to go all the way to said boss..then turn back for no reason instead of taking that giant elevator right in front of you". Classic.
A very good take on the game. I've been enjoying it myself but I'm not blind to the frustrating mobs, random boss encounters that aren't boss encounters and the lack of enemy models.
Thank you, kind viewer.
The flower beds are so frequent and placed in odd spots because in ng+ there are less vestiges
Also you can suck up vigor with your lamp
I loved this game. It's so much better since it's been patched. I think it will be in a very good place in a couple of weeks (considering there's a patch every day).
did they fix the ridiculously long dodge roll? because if they didnt then its still a bad game
@Finlandpro1 your worried about a dodge roll?? Bro do yourself a favor don't play this game go back to ER much more your speed slow and easy.
@@Finlandpro1this game has things that legitimately make it "bad" or have things that are actual issues. Such as performance issues. The dodge roll is not one of those issues and does not make the game bad. You just don't like it.
@@fckoff3203Whoa! We got a
badass here
@@fckoff3203LotF is way easier than ER, especially the bosses.
I dont like the ds1 comparison of hub areas: main reason ds1 hub was better is because you could go in different ways to explore the world and you couldn't travel between bonfires until you defeat epic duo - here you HAVE TO go to Pilgrim's Perch first because other roads are closed and why the hell do i need a shortcut when i can go to hub from every vestige and its faster to teleport to another location's vestige rather than run all the way from Skyrest? There's no need to revisit levels so wth?
The thing i dislike of this game the most is how easy the bosses are. The thing about these type of games that i love is struggling with a boss and the feeling of finally beating it
Wait till new game plus 😭 first run is just setting you up for the real game to begin.
I literally never bought a single bonfire seed or homeward bone but still had them whenever I needed them.
The peppering of vestiges really showed they had no idea what they were doing with their checkpoint system. It really is no wonder vestige seeds can be bought and farmed. Because they knew these seedbeds would cause frustrations.
I just wish they also had the foresight to not have so many ledges to fall off of in a game this slippery. I died to gravity more than anything else in this game.
Could you credit what osts are being used as you talk?
I've played all the souls games, and I love it. Yes its different, thank god. Who wants to play the same game over and over ( looking at you players with hundreds of hours). I found the combat faster than ER (devil may cry did the combat), and I personally hated the open world of ER. This was a connected, world of puzzles and passages like the original DS1-3. Lotf has traditional elements and new. Best souls like I've played outside the fromsoft games. Can't wait for more improvements and DLC over time. Almost ready to start NG+, I'm excited for all the new challenges.
Glad you enjoyed it. Nothing wrong with enjoying this game. I know it was somewhat split down the middle. Other content creators liked it, but it wasn't for me. Hopefully you enjoyed your future playthroughs and whatever else the franchise offers.
I am the only one who really liked the first one 😂🫡
Maybe, but if you did that's okay :)
Way better than this shit
Its ok but i kust hate the slow movement 🤣 ive tried it but couldnt...
Yes
I admit it was slow af but the game was nice, I really have good memories from it 😌
For hushed saint if you pulled out the lamp you could burst parasites and they would explode him off the horse making the fight more engaging. It’s like you didn’t even try to really play to the fullest
I think one of the problem with high mob density in souls-like games are they block your movement and mess up the camera and view. If the game allows player to force your way out instead of being man caged, high mob density is ok for me
I am surprised at how many people don't realize how damage works in this game. Virtually all weapons have the same movement sets based on their weight/encumbrance. It takes specific # of hits to kill each particular enemy unless you are running an elemental build. The damage of weapons is the same based on what level they are at. Developers clearly took a shortcut, reasons behind it are unknown to me.
why no one is talking about that sprinting animation tho ???
I’m more frustrated in how the ai animations is for lies of p. It’s more of am I facing a player? Or am I facing a bot that just hacks knowing where I am?
Lords of the Fallen is just Dark Souls 1 if every level was Anor Londo and they put every enemy in the game in every single level. If it wasn’t for all of that, this game would be top-tier I still really like it, however, the co-op experience is pretty janky. I also very much love the bonfire system in this game. Sometimes in co-op, I drop vestige seeds for people, and help them with where to go.
So not like ds1 at all????? What comparison is that 😂
@@TimothyGod the level design is incredibly similar to DS1, as most- if all levels lead back to the “Firelink Shrine” of the game. Coming out the backside after Pilgrims Perch was a really cool experience. Very similar to DS1 in that aspect, however the levels are much more confusing.
The biggest issue I found with the elite enemies, is that they do not drop enough vigor to warrant killing them. The most tanky enemies in the game all drop pennies, and you'll get most of your vigor from bosses and umbral husks. And it's clear that it's a consequence of the enemy density.
And if you compare vigor gain from an early game husk to a late game one, you quickly realize, your vigor gain from normal enemies does not go up much over the course of a playthrough.
I am about 2/3rd through the game and the most efficient way to earn vigor is still killing that one spikehead near the bell vestige over and over again. The last game that messed souls economy up this badly was DeS with the wraith at the entrance to 4-2.
It's a collection of small things that when combined they make a huge mountain and for me the game was more frustrating and tedious than fun. Like buying vigor skulls this feature is available in Sekiro which was amazing you pay 200 and you get 200 coin pouch exactly. So in this game you 3000 and you get 1600? Why? Why is it a rip-off? What's the point? And that's why I have no faith in these devs they1 really don't get the appeal of Fromsoftwere souls game design they really don't, and so often you get these things, the frustrating for the sake of being frustrating, the hard for the sake of being hard, the trolling for the sake of trolling. The appeal of dark souls and games like it is the triumph against hardships, the light at the end of the tunnel, the idea of at first what seemed impossible is now easy. I never got this once during my two full playthroughs, the game has a lot of cool weapons and spells which makes me want to play it but playing it is actually annoying as heck and not fun at all.
I want to argue that there IS a use for the purchasable vigor consumables. You are limited to 5 vestige seeds no matter what, it will let you try to buy more than just 5 which will poof. The correct way to stockpile vestige seeds is to convert extra vigor into consumables so they can be consumed and converted into vestige seeds when you need more
They're so much more expensive tho...
Lotf is the perfect game imo, great bosses, great level design and interconnectivity, great weapon mechanics, great graphical fidelity, great weapons and weapon combinations. Also umbral realm was really awesome and I wish more games did something like this. So yeah for me this game is a 10/10 right behind Elden ring or maybe even beside it.
One thing to mention if you do complete the first run and go to NG+ you will be shocked because there are no vestiges. So get ready to run.
They changed it with the new patch, now NG+1 have only 9 vestiges removed, NG+2 they removed some more, then NG+3 they are all removed.
Were you playing in low res or something? The graphs look so old!!
Elden beast is actually pretty decent IMO. Also, the inter-connectivity of lords of the fallen doesn't feel nearly as well done as in dark souls IMO. The levels are huge chunks with half-assed connections built in between. You never even really get to use the connections because of how large the areas are, it would just be a chore. Not to mention the fact that you can fast travel from the start. It's more like DS2 inter-connectivity, so not very good lol.
I dont like that when i have a opeb slot in my consumables and pick one up, it fills that slot.
It seems little complicated for me. I hope I get it with time. Lies of p was so simple straightforward. Also I think I need a new tv it’s so dark my tv don’t fe dark it gets hazy. It’s beautiful tho
Maybe my build was kind of op but I never had problem with the mob density even taking down 2-3 elites at the same time was piece of cake.
I literally passed the game with 5-10 bought vestige seeds and that was after the nerf of their price down to 1200 vigor.There are so many vestige seed drops and I was walking around with at least 2-3 seeds at all times.
You can collect souls with the lamp using siphon.
The optional bosses were literally on your path which for me was kind of cool. You can tell which were the main bosses by the gear you can buy and they were like 10.
The real problem in this game in my opinion is the lack of messages by other players which was big help in souls games like warning about gank or item ahead,go back,boss ahead,range required etc you get my point. In this game every man is for himself.
Also I can see a lot of people missed the ranged part in this game which plays big role and its very helpful to use. The ranged builds are even viable and very strong like you can deal thousands of damage with single shot. And the ammunition was very easy to replenish.
The game is no masterpiece by any means but its a good game in my opinion just has to be played differently than fromsoft games.
I am happy those messages are not in this game, that was one immersion breaker for me to have those everywhere and people spoiling what's ahead. So LOTF get a lot of things right in my opinion and I can't wait for a big DLC where they even go over the main story a bit and put in more exciting elite enemies. It needs a bit more scary knights, trolls and other heavy hitting enemies that make you shit your pants when you see them.
And of course LOTF 2 will be made 100% since this was a huge success for them. It just sucks that Steam review bomb every game lately, this is definitely not a 50% mixed game, people gave up too easy and wasn't gud enough so they bash the game.
@@messiahshow Give it a bit time the review score will go up its already 60% positive and it goes up by 1% every day or two.I trust it will reach 80% positive in time.
Also Its not much of a problem for me the lack of communication between players but for many people it seems to be a problem for them to get lost.
Amazing video.. love the game but I do agree with most of your points. It's love hate. Just FYI...
You can pull out the lantern and hold L1 (ps5) to collect souls from a pretty good distance. Also with the hushed Saint the gimmick it to use the lantern again to suck up the parasites to knock him off the horse. It's just never explained
Is this game better than Lords of the Fallen 2014?
Yes
Is this a good Souls-like?
No
Is it even a good game?
Arguably, but personally I would say no. It's decent at best. It has SO many issues that are simply core to the game itself and can't be patched, even if the devs clearly try their best to patch any actual bugs and performance related issues, or balance issues.
It's just so clear they had really cool ideas but just don't understand what makes a Souls-like good. What it needs to be successful. And that doesn't mean it has to be the exact same as a Souls-game, Lies of P deviates in many ways from the Souls-formula. What it needs is tight gameplay. Where you have full control over your character. And you simply factually don't in this game. They either are using Root Motion (which they also did in 2014, though back then it was a LOT worse) or they simply programmed things manually to be slippery as fuck but it just feels like the character is almost gliding over the ground. Especially with attacks you get lunged forward so much, even if the animations are decent, it's just not fun to engage with enemies.
On top of that it feels like they took note of the worst Dark Souls, Scholar of the First Sin, and thought "if we just fill every area with gank, it'll be good, right?". Enemy placement feels random, unwarranted and just way too many at every turn. It makes areas not fun to explore because at every corner there could be another 5-6 enemies instantly on you, meaning you have to play incredibly slow.
Then there's the cool idea of the two worlds, but then them just absolutely missing the mark with that too, making it a confusing shit show. They show you how it works once and then it's just "have fun, figure it out", which huge mechanics like that should never have, there should be a gradual exploration of how something like that works, with spending more and more time there to get accustom to the two different worlds.
It's not a terrible game, I think it looks bland but the textures and cloth physics and such are nice at least. However even though I got this game for free I genuinely wish I could get my money back :')
I feel the same way. I just want my $70 back
It def is a hack and slash dynasty warriors like game. Lets call it dynasty souls like
Listen, this is the way to do a negative review. I really enjoy this game as I've already put over 100 hours into it, and even did a NG+ playthrough before they patched the bonfires back in. So, I've been living and breathing this game and lots of RUclips content related to it. There are plenty of other negative reviews out there, as this game is deeply polarizing, but they have been rather dreadful, in my opinion.
What this review does that few others do is state preference as opposed to "fact" and isn't presented with a condescending tone that implies if you like this game you're "basically fucking stupid." Other reviews sound like "This game is shit, and you're shit if you like it." They even literally fight with viewers in the comments.
My hope for this game going forward is that the devs get a chance to build on what they've succeeded at, rethink what might not work as well, and get another chance at building something even more people can enjoy in the future.
Lies has much more enemy variety and its way smaller wolrd
I don't agree with everything, like I don't mind vestiges (bonfires) that much, you get seed after every boss and I always have at least one ,,just in case", it feels like a good way of keeping player ,,on the edge". However, I do think it's quite fair review. Something in the artstyle made me super excited about this game, at first couldn't stop playing, but every session got tired quicker than with Eldenring, Dark Souls3 or Dark Souls1 which I have finished for the first time few weeks ago (I recently got obssesed about souls games, I'm definietly not a pro on the topic tho)
I hope the devs will have the chance to make another soulslike game, I think they have a lot of great ideas. I hope people will play it and give it a chance. And I will try to finish this game, although it often feels tedious... For now, I have much more fun playing Dark Souls 2 for the first time.
Yeah.. really keeping players on their feet by making them go farm vestige seeds every so often... Its piss poor design. It should have been a mechanic primarily for ng+ when you know where you are going
I’m with you on this one. I think it’s an alright soulslike, but how people are putting this over any fromsoft game that isn’t DS2 is beyond me. There seems to be a lot of people that are exaggerating their love of the game because they feel the need to justify their hype and $70 they spent. I laughed out loud when the final boss of the game was just more ad spam and then a text ending. Bosses were a major disappointment for me as well. I do think this game is more approachable for that since they are almost all a joke and can be beaten pretty mindlessly.
Brother, you are taking minutes to explain how your "bonfires" costs you 2500 vigour each while not explaining to your audience that you can go into umbral and farm the moths for those. You can literally have 10 in less than 15 minutes if you want and be ok for the rest of the game. At least be honest, or maybe you just didn't play enough to know this in the first place. You also say that the devs don't plan on changing the mob density people have issue with when they ARE releasing a patch for it.
You're not the only one who's negative about LotF. In fact it seems more popular to hate the game as time goes on even though patches are being worked on to address everyone's issues with the game. I think the core game is solid, weapons and magic are better than the souls' equivalents. I do think the game was released in a bad state and could have avoided some of the negative publicity by hold off the release. For an $80 game, it shouldn't have had so many issues at launch.
After having gotten the achievement for collecting all weapons, I can safely say that 90% of them are mathematically not even worth picking up. I was farting around with Cheat Engine to build and limit test them and the majority of weapons are functionally worthless compared to like 10 weapons. Pieta's sword, Light reaper swords, the big ass popsicle stick sword, Harrower Dervla's sword, Judge Cleric's Corrupted Sword and the eyeball umbral hammer outdamage pretty much everything else in the game. The magic system feels good to use, but the catalysts have the same problem as the weapons do. Lost Berescu's Catalyst is just straight up the best, on any build. The hardcap for damage stats is 75. LB gets an A- scaling in both Radiance and Inferno and will have like 1000+ spellpower at level 140 with 75/50. You can hit 2k damage on Sundered Monarch with a basic spell. Whole fight took less than a minute.
That's just the balancing and scaling issues. There's also no fucking item box. For an $80 game, they should be giving refunds to anyone who wants one, regardless of play time.
good game - just was priced as a great game lol - if this game was $39.99 id be totally happy with my experience - but it was way too glitchy and still is
most modern game problem are same.
bug. glitch and unoptimized
Agree with a few of your points but mostly disagree with your overall "Analysis". Lets examine it a bit closer.
1. The original Lords of the Fallen was liked and to date is still the best selling non-Fromsoft Soulslike game with over 3 million sales. The game was a fun if flawed effort from a small developer with a limited budget.
2. The sequel was in development from a few weeks after the release of the original game, it was never "Dead in the Water". The split between CI Games and Deck 13 (about 6 months after launch) knocked the plans back a few years. Otherwise we would have had the sequel in 2017.
3. Level Design is probably the best I have seen since Bloodborne and the original Dark Souls. In other words Level Design is better than every other Fromsoft game to date. This Lords of the Fallen links back as much as either of those aforementioned games.
4. The (Bonfire) Vestige Seed design is fantastic. They effectively removed maybe 1-2 hypothetical bonfire areas but give you 5-6 potential areas to plant a Vestige Seed. The game then indeed uses "Bonfire Bait" to get you to use Vestige Seeds early or unnecessarily. Preying on your fears. Bosses drop Vestige Seeds, meaning you always start the next level with at least one. People who push on are rewarded with not having to spend 2500 Vigor for extra seeds. The cost of the Vestige Seeds is perfectly balanced so that you think twice about buying them or leveling up.
5. I do agree Enemy Variety is lacking, especially mid-late game. However, this is a problem in virtually ALL souls games, including Dark Souls, including Elden Ring. Could it use more enemy designs though, absolutely. Its one of the weakest facets of the game (performance problems aside).
6. (As someone else mentioned) You can pick up far away Souls/Vigor by raising your lantern.
7. Mob Density is perfect as it is. Is it slightly annoying - yes, that's the point of groups of weak enemies - to harass and annoy the player. Mob layout where ranged attackers hang back is also perfect. It was perfect back when Dark Souls did this (Undead Burg and other areas) it was perfect when Bloodborne did this (Central Yharnam among others).
8. Boss enemies with no cut scene are MINI-Bosses. They become regular enemies later in the game. This is a staple of basically EVERY Souls-like including even Elden Ring.
9. I thought most bosses were extremely fun fights, even the Hushed Saint. While not super challenging, neither are they frustrating and the hybrid Souls-Sekiro parry system makes the boss battles really cool - such as knocking Hushed Saint off his Horse. Speaking of which the Hushed Saint backing off for 10 seconds hardly compares to the frustration of the Elden Beast.
10. While Demons Souls had some great bosses (for a variety of reasons), it also had some stinkers. Personally I think Pieta is a better fight than the Penetrator Boss. I also enjoyed the Spurned Prodigy spectacle boss more than the Tower Knight. Congregator is a far better fight than either Leechmonger or Dirty Colossus, and before you say "so you are saying Lords of the Fallen bosses are better than a Fromsoft game from 14 years ago" - EVERY Fromsoft game has good AND bad bosses - right up to Elden Ring. Are the best Fromsoft Bosses better, yes. but most major bosses in LotF are great spectacle and fun challenges (for the average player).
11. The claim of 31 bosses is a bit misleading - personally I don't like counting Mini-Bosses towards that total. Lords of the Fallen probably has a number of unique bosses close to the nineteen of Dark Souls 3's (which I agree had some amazing bosses) plus a dozen or so mini-bosses. Elden Ring had about 31 main bosses and over 20 mini-bosses that get reused multiple times with many later becoming regular enemies. So if you criticise the mini-bosses as part of the Boss List you have to do that for every Fromsoft game too.
12. Agree with you on Perfect Parrying. At the very least it should cause less wither build up.
My analysis of your analysis is that overall most of your points simply don't hold up to scrutiny.
Performance issues aside, the game is great in virtually every department except for introducing new enemies mid-late game.
I refunded it a few hours in. The constant enemy bombardments are cheap and remove a lot of enjoyment in exploring and absorbing the level design.
Great video man; I'm really liking your stuff! I can already tell your channel is going to be big some day.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the enthusiasm!
He gets so much wrong 🤦🏾♂️
@dginc.4582Did you type that out with a stick while blindfolded?
The Vestiges are spread out with 3-6 vestige seed beds in between them.
The Lies of P comparison- y’all don’t realize you are telling on yourselves. P is like Babies first souls game while LotF is much more challenging. Anyone who says “I play for the challenge” then says P is the best soulslike they’ve played doesn’t play for the challenge.
@dginc.4582
this way of thinking is dumb. Opinion is the lowest level of knowledge. Objectibly, the game presents mechanics that are good enough to enjoy the game, something else is not getting them right because expecting them to be as soulslike as possible, when the game really is only inspired ins such thing, not trying to copy it. Besides, a really good story is presented.
Yeah wasn’t my thing, found A LOT of issues. Bad pacing, level design is lazy IMO and my save was corrupted 3 times with performance being terrible. Tried to get a refund but tried to give the game a fair shot for too long apparently so I’m unable to get refunded for it. Not very pleased