This is incorrect. If, during any single phase other than the Combat phase, a unit loses more than a quarter (25%) of the models it contained at the start of that phase, it must make a Panic test.
Lmao the guy wipes out two of your big blocks on the turn after your cannon which has done nothing up to that point explodes, but then you kill one of his units "the bull**** starts 🤬". Guys like this are a chore to play against.
On the challange, when your general issues in turn 6, if your opponent refuses, you get to choose which character to send to back. Then your general can direct any attacks into models he is in base to base with i believe, so you send the bsb to back kill the goblin champion and you cant use bsb in combat res i think is best outcome.
45:06 just wanted to point this out, but skirmishers ‘move as directly as possible’ to their charge target, pg. 186. Which means that skirmishers don’t care too much about accidental contact. Also around 51:38 you would get to try and restrain knowing that the goblins were only going to give ground, the decision comes after the break test is made but before the results are resolved
With your joyful exhuberance and your accent I wonder if you are from the same area as Richard Hammond. Your personality makes your content a joy to watch
As I understand it outside of a challenge a model in the fighting rank can choose to put its attacks into either the unit or a specific model it is in base contact with. I don't think you can choose to Move through the ranks to occupy any position you want with a character (if you could your opponent could just move through the ranks to avoid you), there are specific times when you can or must (such as a challenge or being attacked in the flank). Also with only 2 models you can't choose to move along the fighting rank of the enemy to be in base contact with a character you want to attack so it would come down to where in the rank the Goblin boss was and if he happened to be in base contact already.
Great battle report, some good fighting there. A few errors which is inevitable during the first few games. The fantatics really did some work there, for both of you, through on balance I think the Empire had the worst of it :) Nice to see at least one of the cannons do what they do best (which in my opinion is killing big things). Personally I'd say your empire force would really benefit from some outriders, they have really effective shooting, a unit puts out similar amounts of firepower at the same range as the Helblaster volley gun while being mobile and having at least some capability to fight up close.
You may have chosen not to for fun reasons, fair enough. But cannons are really ideal at taking down things like mangler squigs/giants ect. So would always recommend targeting those with your cannon rather than units
Just to summarise if it’s helpful, I think you’ve got a few things wrong on Fanatics: (a) Panic tests are 25% casualties in “any single phase other than the Combat phase”, Fanatics would absolutely trigger; (b) Fanatics move after charges; and (c) they’re not affected by Earthen Ramparts, which doesn’t create a terrain piece.
Yes, I was going to say the same thing about earthen ramparts - you only count as being behind a linear obstacle if you are charged, and fanatics do not charge.
@@MordianGlory yep earthen ramparts wording is, if unit is charged it get benefits of being behind linear obstacle, it doesn't create the obstacle and fanatics don't charge so wouldn't work against them.
@@MordianGlory It’s not a low linear obstacle, the unit “counts as being behind a defended low linear obstacle if charged”. It hasn’t been charged when it’s hit by a Fanatic.
@@MordianGlory Just to add, in case it helps, the way Simon should have played it is to drop the fanatics as a screen in front of his night gobbos. Then you either lose momentum (particularly if you’re using heavy cav who hate the AP3) or risk getting hit *twice* in the charge and compulsory move phases. Fanatics are (intentionally) very powerful and I’m not aware of any fool proof answers besides nuking the host units or being so tough you can laugh off S5 hits.
Makes them the best flanking cav unit in the game, imo, with str 5 impact, 2x str 5 attacks and cav spears. They chew through most infantry units. Add battle magic and arcane urgency to move them twice, can be horrible.
Dude I love how you called them the "Arditi" One thing about Italian military history, perhaps you know this, but the legend of the river Piave is well known in Italia military history as the last line we held in WW1. They're a song that goes with it and everything! All about kicking out and keeping out the foreigners. IL PIAVE MORMORÒ NON PASSA LO STRANIERO
53:55. Huh? Pretty sure front/flank charge is determined when charge declared. If you start at front you charge front. If wrong could you/somebody provide rule quote?
Earthen Ramparts doesn't work that way, you only count as being behind a Low linear obstacle if you are charged. And the fanatics aren't moved till the compulsory move phase, after chargers. Which makes them crazy. Like in this game, Goblin player should have dropped them in front of his own units. Empire player charges over them and takes damage they pop out the side/back of the unit, and then the goblin player gets to move them 2d6 back through the empire unit and damage them again. And THAT is why Goblins are crazy broken.
I’m not convinced Earthen Ramparts stops Fanatics. It doesn’t create a terrain piece, they “count as” defending a low linear obstacle if charged but a fanatic isn’t charging anyone.
EDIT: You may be right. I've played that it does stop them and will continue to do so (I'm O&G so usually the one bringing fanatics) but I see your point
@@avocadoarmadillo7031 Yeah, I don’t think MG’s reading was absurd by any means but I’m pretty confident I’m right on this one and that most people are doing the same. The spell doesn’t create terrain or affect someone moving (like Tempest, say, which I think can affect fanatics if not dispelled in time), it’s a counts as if charged. Fanatics don’t charge.
i'm pretty sure the only way fanatics can die is if they hit a terrain piece, go off a table edge or roll a double on the dice roll for their movement. Also the random movement for the squiggs you declare a direction first and then you roll your dice. And his other squig unit have impetuous so they have to charge if they are within charge range of something.
Turn 2, when the Hopppers chage into the halberdiers, the bowman could have stood and shoot as a charge reaction because they were a detachment of the paraent unit, I think.
Unless stated otherwise in a spell description you can't target units in combat with Hex or Enchantment spells. So Earthen Ramparts and Storm Call couldn't be cast on the big combat in the middle once it had started.
the mangler squig doesn't move in lines like that, it moves like a closed order unit (because he is) up to the 3d6, still has to pivot, and with the faq still has to 'charge' min distance maximising models in base
I know war machines needed a bit of a nerf, but I think they over did it with cannons. I can live with d3 damage on my Dwarfs cannons but Ap -2 means that on top of their general reliability issues due to artillery dice their shots can also be tanked by heavy cav and heavy infantry in a lot of cases. I know they are meant for big monsters, but they are not even good for that anymore. I can get two bolt throwers for the price of one cannon, and they have a better Ap and do more consistent damage at the same range. I had a 4 game stretch where my cannon caused a single wound, so I gave up on them.
The cannons should have shot into the big monster. I know this is an old rep but it's best to hold with the infantry and then use the guns to do damage.
On turn 3 charges should happen before the random moves so empire would have to charge through fanatics, then the fanatics get to move, panic is losing 25% at any point so archers and fanatics need test.
@@mjhsinclairreply yep, the light cav means unit strength 2 hadn't picked up on that, but they are immune to psychology as well so would not have broke to shooting.
The goblin hoody gang was squatting in a hoomie tent city. Dirty pink skin land lord sent some mercenary bullyboys to kick them out. Fortunately, Squig Lord Simon led the Salty Squatters to victory! It saddens me to say this, but Simon seems like he should be playing dwarves. Stunty Simon's salty nature would be appropriate.
In Empire turn 3 the archers only hit one time at the squighoppas. So the squighoppas wouldnt run and could charge the archers in ther next turn, so the archers are probably dead in Goblins turn 3 and the hoppas could overrun into the damsel.
I think the key combat with the generals didn’t quite play right. IIRC models can target models in b2b. You seemed to be taking hits on the unit but then rolling hero’s save, yet it would have been harder to hit the hero’s ws. So I think when down to one look and two heros it should have been that they were allocated to specific models. Also iirc you issue a challenge if opponent refuses the challenger nominates the models to replace retire. Please check this I am going from memory but that whole combat didn’t seem to quite work out. Not sure if the result would have been different.
You need to look under psychology rules section, not just the shooting section. There it states that you have to test for panic in any phase where you take enough casualties.
The combat with gobbo spears after the general's challenge was resolved had too many gobbo attacks. The fight in extra rank should only have been for the models behind those in contact, you can't linehammer out your supporting attacks.
He immediately starts to moan after losing a unit, when moments prior he had blitzed like 50% of the Empire army off the board. Ngl he's the kind of person I would play once and never bother with again.
Page 161 common causes of panic tests. Heavy casualties, if during any phase a unit suffers 25% or more casualties, a panic test must be taken.
This is incorrect. If, during any single phase other than the Combat phase, a unit loses more than a quarter (25%) of the models it contained at the start of that phase, it must make a Panic test.
As Geeksworkshop pointed out, it has to be more than 25%, not 25%. So a 20 model unit needs to lose 6 models to be forced to take panic.
I feel like if poor Simon dropped his morning toast on the floor butter side down, he would just give up on the day and go back to bed.
Lmao the guy wipes out two of your big blocks on the turn after your cannon which has done nothing up to that point explodes, but then you kill one of his units "the bull**** starts 🤬". Guys like this are a chore to play against.
100% the worst kind of player they sap the joy out of playing a game
"I'm only salty against you and your bullshit." LOL
On the challange, when your general issues in turn 6, if your opponent refuses, you get to choose which character to send to back. Then your general can direct any attacks into models he is in base to base with i believe, so you send the bsb to back kill the goblin champion and you cant use bsb in combat res i think is best outcome.
45:06 just wanted to point this out, but skirmishers ‘move as directly as possible’ to their charge target, pg. 186. Which means that skirmishers don’t care too much about accidental contact. Also around 51:38 you would get to try and restrain knowing that the goblins were only going to give ground, the decision comes after the break test is made but before the results are resolved
“Yerr they only call us the f’ken free company ‘cos they never bloody pay us!” grumbled Frededic through several missing front teeth..
Dear Mordian, you made my day twice in one video. First Stargate joke and later you put my national flag on unit. Thank you
I’m painting so don’t have my rule book, but pretty sure panic is 25% of a unit in ANY phase other than combat
Oh you figured it out ignore me
"the night gobbos are kind of like the Genii from Stargate." Run Mordian! These goblins have nukes!
With your joyful exhuberance and your accent I wonder if you are from the same area as Richard Hammond. Your personality makes your content a joy to watch
Love this Battle Reports.
Gotta get an engineer with those cannons.
As I understand it outside of a challenge a model in the fighting rank can choose to put its attacks into either the unit or a specific model it is in base contact with. I don't think you can choose to Move through the ranks to occupy any position you want with a character (if you could your opponent could just move through the ranks to avoid you), there are specific times when you can or must (such as a challenge or being attacked in the flank). Also with only 2 models you can't choose to move along the fighting rank of the enemy to be in base contact with a character you want to attack so it would come down to where in the rank the Goblin boss was and if he happened to be in base contact already.
Amazing batrep bruz!!! Great work! 🎉
44:28 the jingles actually wanted me to get some ice cream now
Great battle report, some good fighting there. A few errors which is inevitable during the first few games. The fantatics really did some work there, for both of you, through on balance I think the Empire had the worst of it :) Nice to see at least one of the cannons do what they do best (which in my opinion is killing big things). Personally I'd say your empire force would really benefit from some outriders, they have really effective shooting, a unit puts out similar amounts of firepower at the same range as the Helblaster volley gun while being mobile and having at least some capability to fight up close.
You may have chosen not to for fun reasons, fair enough. But cannons are really ideal at taking down things like mangler squigs/giants ect. So would always recommend targeting those with your cannon rather than units
I'm very proud of myself for getting the Stargate reference. Love those shows!
Yes! Another battle report in the Old World. Glory be to the Empire of man!
I love that you're basically playing CoreHammer, creates a much more strategic game!
Just to summarise if it’s helpful, I think you’ve got a few things wrong on Fanatics: (a) Panic tests are 25% casualties in “any single phase other than the Combat phase”, Fanatics would absolutely trigger; (b) Fanatics move after charges; and (c) they’re not affected by Earthen Ramparts, which doesn’t create a terrain piece.
Hmm I am not sure. Are low linear obstacles not a terrain feature, like fences and stuff right?
Yes, I was going to say the same thing about earthen ramparts - you only count as being behind a linear obstacle if you are charged, and fanatics do not charge.
@@MordianGlory yep earthen ramparts wording is, if unit is charged it get benefits of being behind linear obstacle, it doesn't create the obstacle and fanatics don't charge so wouldn't work against them.
@@MordianGlory It’s not a low linear obstacle, the unit “counts as being behind a defended low linear obstacle if charged”. It hasn’t been charged when it’s hit by a Fanatic.
@@MordianGlory Just to add, in case it helps, the way Simon should have played it is to drop the fanatics as a screen in front of his night gobbos. Then you either lose momentum (particularly if you’re using heavy cav who hate the AP3) or risk getting hit *twice* in the charge and compulsory move phases. Fanatics are (intentionally) very powerful and I’m not aware of any fool proof answers besides nuking the host units or being so tough you can laugh off S5 hits.
In the new FAQ the panic test for 25% loss is extended to all phases except the combat phase.
Pretty sure it says it in the rulebook to
I am fairly sure Squig hoppers are immune to psychology, so didnt need to make a panic test.
You are right! Thankfully the gobbos won in the end anyway :)
Makes them the best flanking cav unit in the game, imo, with str 5 impact, 2x str 5 attacks and cav spears. They chew through most infantry units. Add battle magic and arcane urgency to move them twice, can be horrible.
Dude I love how you called them the "Arditi"
One thing about Italian military history, perhaps you know this, but the legend of the river Piave is well known in Italia military history as the last line we held in WW1. They're a song that goes with it and everything! All about kicking out and keeping out the foreigners.
IL PIAVE MORMORÒ
NON PASSA LO STRANIERO
53:55. Huh? Pretty sure front/flank charge is determined when charge declared. If you start at front you charge front.
If wrong could you/somebody provide rule quote?
Earthen Ramparts doesn't work that way, you only count as being behind a Low linear obstacle if you are charged. And the fanatics aren't moved till the compulsory move phase, after chargers. Which makes them crazy. Like in this game, Goblin player should have dropped them in front of his own units. Empire player charges over them and takes damage they pop out the side/back of the unit, and then the goblin player gets to move them 2d6 back through the empire unit and damage them again. And THAT is why Goblins are crazy broken.
Or you just hold off charging a turn, & pull back. Orcs want to be in combat.
Make them move over the fanatics. :)
I’m not convinced Earthen Ramparts stops Fanatics. It doesn’t create a terrain piece, they “count as” defending a low linear obstacle if charged but a fanatic isn’t charging anyone.
EDIT: You may be right. I've played that it does stop them and will continue to do so (I'm O&G so usually the one bringing fanatics) but I see your point
@@avocadoarmadillo7031 Yeah, I don’t think MG’s reading was absurd by any means but I’m pretty confident I’m right on this one and that most people are doing the same. The spell doesn’t create terrain or affect someone moving (like Tempest, say, which I think can affect fanatics if not dispelled in time), it’s a counts as if charged. Fanatics don’t charge.
The Captain is the last to die in a unit. The order is Musician, Banner, Captain.
Great report. Thanks for sharing
Great betrep. You def need the right temperament play O&G, you have to assume you'll have highs and low and ride them out.
Great one! Well done
Ahh, the Genii, Miles O'Brien's best role after DS9!
i'm pretty sure the only way fanatics can die is if they hit a terrain piece, go off a table edge or roll a double on the dice roll for their movement. Also the random movement for the squiggs you declare a direction first and then you roll your dice. And his other squig unit have impetuous so they have to charge if they are within charge range of something.
True sons all, Vossenberg surely only signs contracts with his grace, Emperor Frederick V! 🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁🥁 Hellebarden Voran!
Wow, those fanatics are seriously nuts 😂😂
Turn 2, when the Hopppers chage into the halberdiers, the bowman could have stood and shoot as a charge reaction because they were a detachment of the paraent unit, I think.
I never use Great Cannons on blocks of infantry, I bring the Helblaster Volleygun. Great Cannons are great for killing big monsters though
Glorious gentlemen
Unless stated otherwise in a spell description you can't target units in combat with Hex or Enchantment spells. So Earthen Ramparts and Storm Call couldn't be cast on the big combat in the middle once it had started.
Infantry have a max +2 from rank bonus (unless they have horde or the like).
Yes, the old world is back!!
The gobbo-genii are a truly scary combination.
At 46:50 are you sure any archer could shoot? I think not everyone got los
What was that high elf spell that moved hills? Armies look great all lined up nicely!
Assault of Stone
the mangler squig doesn't move in lines like that, it moves like a closed order unit (because he is) up to the 3d6, still has to pivot, and with the faq still has to 'charge' min distance maximising models in base
and squid hoppers are immune to psychology, so they don't panic
I’m sure someone mentioned already but the great cave squig can’t join the regular squig hoppers because it’s a different troop type
You gotta shoot big guys with cannons. You can 1 shot that mangler squig
I know war machines needed a bit of a nerf, but I think they over did it with cannons. I can live with d3 damage on my Dwarfs cannons but Ap -2 means that on top of their general reliability issues due to artillery dice their shots can also be tanked by heavy cav and heavy infantry in a lot of cases. I know they are meant for big monsters, but they are not even good for that anymore. I can get two bolt throwers for the price of one cannon, and they have a better Ap and do more consistent damage at the same range. I had a 4 game stretch where my cannon caused a single wound, so I gave up on them.
Use a mortar next time versus those Goblin blocks! Fire at the middle of the battle line and you're going to hit something! M O R T A R
I mean if Simon wants to try more units that can stand alone black orcs look quite nasty
Why did he not use cannons against the monster on his right flank?
Lads - PLEASE remember to use your cannons grapeshot!!!
2:15:18 yes to my knowledge even in 8th ed this is how it worked.
The cannons should have shot into the big monster. I know this is an old rep but it's best to hold with the infantry and then use the guns to do damage.
Looks good and was in the spirit of the game. Lovely.
On turn 3 charges should happen before the random moves so empire would have to charge through fanatics, then the fanatics get to move, panic is losing 25% at any point so archers and fanatics need test.
Yeah. They’d have had to charge through or hold back.
Think t3 in to the hoppers you would be hitting on 5s not 4s for skirmishers? Would have saved a fair few of my favourite boingy boyz
I don’t think so. The -1 to hit for skirmishers only applies if you’re unit strength 1 - ie not cavalry.
@@mjhsinclairreply yep, the light cav means unit strength 2 hadn't picked up on that, but they are immune to psychology as well so would not have broke to shooting.
@@craigmitch7257 I made the same mistake!
Love it!
Got night goblin fanatic'd to the face in 5th ed. Poor knights.
I thought you could only claim 2 ranks in combat res? Was this changed in faq?
55:12 Oof-That's some dodgy measuring going on from the goblin player. Casual game I suppose. Would certainly raise a few eyebrows at an event :P
Aah yeah. Measure, put finger, put center of base where finger was. Possible measured from center of model but if not...
The goblin hoody gang was squatting in a hoomie tent city. Dirty pink skin land lord sent some mercenary bullyboys to kick them out. Fortunately, Squig Lord Simon led the Salty Squatters to victory! It saddens me to say this, but Simon seems like he should be playing dwarves. Stunty Simon's salty nature would be appropriate.
Never!!
In Empire turn 3 the archers only hit one time at the squighoppas. So the squighoppas wouldnt run and could charge the archers in ther next turn, so the archers are probably dead in Goblins turn 3 and the hoppas could overrun into the damsel.
I think the key combat with the generals didn’t quite play right. IIRC models can target models in b2b. You seemed to be taking hits on the unit but then rolling hero’s save, yet it would have been harder to hit the hero’s ws. So I think when down to one look and two heros it should have been that they were allocated to specific models. Also iirc you issue a challenge if opponent refuses the challenger nominates the models to replace retire. Please check this I am going from memory but that whole combat didn’t seem to quite work out. Not sure if the result would have been different.
Btw this is not criticism, just trying to be helpful. I enjoyed watching.
Also, I assume this was recorded pre-FAQ, a challenge is in effect to the end of the round. So no beating up on the winner by the rest of the unit.
You need to look under psychology rules section, not just the shooting section. There it states that you have to test for panic in any phase where you take enough casualties.
p161 the first sentence under "Heavy Casualties" headline
Except combat. Its in the faq.
You are right! Will make sure to get that right next time :)
Hell yeah
Big axe always swings last
The combat with gobbo spears after the general's challenge was resolved had too many gobbo attacks. The fight in extra rank should only have been for the models behind those in contact, you can't linehammer out your supporting attacks.
Genie were so underused
40:54 Lol classic Italy.. a little susceptible to fanaticism 😅
Poor choice of fanatic movement in turn 2 to be fair...very goblin like 🤣
Did I see the Italian flag
This Simon guy is a big buzzkill. "my dice" "the bullshit" omg get over it. Jesus you are a grown man
He immediately starts to moan after losing a unit, when moments prior he had blitzed like 50% of the Empire army off the board. Ngl he's the kind of person I would play once and never bother with again.
20:36 =][= 🤨
What’s your accent bro?
It’s a Northern English accent mate
FIRST!?
crying as gw obliterated my golden bois.