The main problem with Vanessa is how Steel Wool and the other writers of the Pizzaplex books keep getting cold feet and making up lore points that end up writing her out. Good example is the setup of Security Breach and how it all got undone with a single story. All of the hints given in the promotional material for SB set up that Vanessa is who messed with the animatronics, and is who we need to worry about. Then her role in the game is extremely lackluster and meaningless, as most of her lines are cut and she barely even appears. Flash forward two years later, turns out it was actually Gregory who hacked the animatronics under Glitchtrap's control. And for what? All that did is make Vanessa even more irrelevant for literally no reason. Why does she exist as a character if she obviously doesn't need to, since other characters keep taking what her roles were supposed to be? Which is where I have to say that the movie version of her is FAR superior. She has a lot more potential there than she will ever have in the games anymore.
I have to agree with you, even though I think she has a somewhat complete story. It does feel like every step towards a concrete action with the character is cut from the games entirely, or either confusingly simple (regarding her identity). It's so strange to completely cut her out of the Tales books when it feels like a such a good opportunity to develop and flesh Vanessa out a bit more, even if it's with a random Pizzaplex story. Help Wanted 2's cut dialogue REALLY rubs me the wrong way, because it's implementation makes so much sense. But, oh well...
Tbf that not really the fault of the book. SB Retro CD's revealed that Patient 46 (later revealed to be Gregory by "GGY") was the one to hack/infect the animatronics.
Yeah. And as good as Ruin is, it completely screwed us and the character over. Because they chose the one ending where Vanny stops being Vanny. Even if she comes back, costume or not it will likely be as a supporting role and not what steelwool built her up as.
@kyflysupreme7727 is that supposed to make me feel better because in case ya forgot vanny was supposed to be the harley to this place and if aftons truly dead and vanny's now good then that means we have to rely on an animatronic that plays dress up and can mimic voices to continue this franchise at least with vanny it could've been fun and if glitchtrap wasn't slain then we could've played around more with that whole cultism thing but no new it's all up to mimic or jackie or whatever we're calling it now
The other story that Candy Cadet tells the one about the family and the pizza deal and how they all died is a paralelism to William Afton’s search for immortality and how he killed his whole family to get it
I generally love Vanessa. It just makes me depressed that she's not being used effectively enough in the FNAFverse. But people like me like to believe she tries to make amends and find happiness again, either stopping what's controlling her, or, some people, including me, believe she adopts Gregory at the end of PQ ending in Security Breach.
I really like your theory that william afton was tricking vanessa into thinking he was her dad! I know you only briefly mentioned it but it stood out to me as I always see people say vanessa saw afton as a "father figure" but I think you explaining her troubling relationship with her actual father alongside the tape that indicated the trauma she experienced seems to effect her overall mental state concerning her father seems like a way better opening for william to come in and for the manipulation from him to run a lot more deep than his and vanessa's relationship being just some girl following him bcuz she has daddy issues and wants approval from a "father figure".. to me it seems more sinister and meaningful that william would pose as her real dad and vanessa is just too messed up in the head to fully realize he's not and she doesn't owe him the things she believe she owes her father
VR Sisters = Vanny and Vanessa are truly separate entities. I think where we've "gone wrong" is to say Vanessa is "under Glitchtrap's control". What if Vanessa is just herself, but Vanny is an "artifical" version of Vanessa that exists digitally. This would actually help to explain the urge to create a costume; it's an attempt at Vanny to physically manifest. This would also support the rooftop ending as not being in conflict with other endings; Vanessa would break away from Vanny and leave the burning pizzaplex, while Vanny, as a digital entity, is still left behind. The claw machine ending in Help Wanted 2 is then us giving the remaining pizzaplex-copy of Glitchtrap to the digital copy of Vanny still in the network. Vanny then crushes Glitchtrap, as to remove it from the system, leaving her as the digital entity that Cassie interacts with in Ruin; with Glitchtrap out of the system, Vanny uses Helpi to speak to Cassie with the fake Gregory being the Mimic. This could explain the in-fighting; think about it... Does it really make sense for William Afton to be arguing with the Mimic over who technically did what? It makes more sense for a younger character, a 23-year old person, to be arguing about that. ALSO why is it called the Vanni network? Doesn't that sound like it was renamed to the Vanni network? This brings up a bigger thing; the VR/AR masks. Is it possible that each VR mask is custom? Meaning the Vanny mask we use in HW2 and Ruin are the same mask; Vanessa's mask? And that each employee may have their own; this is why the Bonnie mask is important --- maybe it is hinting that Cassie's Dad had his own "avatar", his own mask?
Sorry to say but they %100 are the same. This just isn't a debate. As much as I would have preferred them to be separate, steelwool fucked her over twice. Once by how she was done in SB and the second time with Ruin where they guaranteed that she will never have her chance as a villain.
@@EggsBenedict-te4nj I agree that Steel Wool messed up in giving us a new villain (I liked the idea of Glitchtrap "inspiring" the next villain, but not being the actual bad guy). But I guess the part I don't agree with, or are confused by is how do we know Vanny and Vannessa aren't two sides to a coin? They are the same physical person, but why can't they be two different personalities? I felt like the VR sisters really conveyed something clearly, visually; they look digital / unreal; they don't represent a pair of real-life "sisters"; they look like digital avatars that are sisters to each other. It also seems weird that Vannessa could phase between being "under control" and being "normal"; it just seems like what would make more sense is if she was often herself and then other times dissociates into Vanny / a seperate version of herself that interacts with Glitchtrap or maybe is Glitchtrap. If the latter case, the Vanny costume/person could be Glitchtrap having a suit made to embody itself in the physical world.
@@porcelainchips6061 Yeah the two sides of the same coin thing is how I see it as well. It would have been great to see Vanessa switch between Vanny as seen with the Vanny meter. But that just makes it even more painful to know what the final product ended up being.
The Rooftop Ending has led to no end of confusion in Vanessa's story. Is the Vanessa on the rooftop after the credits meant to be her ghost, now haunting the place? If so, there really isn't anything to indicate that she *is* a ghost (not see-through or spectral in any way). For all we know, Vanny and Vanessa could be sisters, or one or both could be robots. Also, the teasers and trailers showed Vanessa in a more noble and helpful light, but the gameplay played her as the antagonist through-and-through.
Regarding that last bit, it's easy to figure out why. It's because so much got cut. It was very likely intended to be a slow buildup until the reveal happened.
someone had to say it!! I think a lot of people call her wasted potential because a. They never bothered to find her lore by playing the games or b. People haven’t made many expansive lore videos about her like this, so generally people just don’t know much about her. After playing HW myself and later doing a playthrough of SB where I found all the therapy tapes, she quickly became my favorite character. It’s insane how much those tapes alone develop her character. The real “wasted potential” is her cut story arc in SB as shown through the trailers. It could have been hands down the best narrative of any FNAF game by a mile, but we were robbed of it. But like, even if that amazing plot line was lost, we now have the great setup of Gregory and Vanessa and Freddy as a sort of found family on the run. Her character is FAR from done, clearly Scott/SW wants to make the most of this character if they’ve done so much to establish her personality/lore/etc. The movie made me feel like Scott wants her to be a significant, important character in the franchise, and HW2 seems to be signifying a new chapter for her. So I’m super excited for what they do with her. I’m gonna have my optimism for now. She’ll only be a wasted character if she doesn’t return in any meaningful way, which I believe she will.
Yeah! There's a lot of info regarding her character in these games that being labeled as "wasted potential" by the majority of the fanbase just feels wrong in my eyes. I'd love to see what else they do with her, especially regarding the 'found family' dynamic you mentioned!
well again to tell a good story for a character that you won't even care needs to be told more ways than secret tapes, but rather giving more story of her while playing and then use the tapes to tell more about her so it wouldn't all go to tapes that nowdays doesn't line up with her character in some parts.
And its hard to make videos of her or theories bc her story and screen time was put to the bare bones and the only lore/story we now have is the tapes, ar delivery and the old trailers.
@@KZfnafXthey could always expand her role in another game. Have her fight against her Vanny persona and wind up losing at times as she and Vanny 2.0 aka Cassie who might go by Connie wreck Fall fest with 9 brainwashed children piloting animatronics.
How I think the series should have played out after help wanted: Vanny should have been shown as a copycat killer, someone who got a little too obsessed with true crime and hyperfixated on William Afton's crimes as well as certain Video Games (the Help Wanted series, some of the scenes where Glitchtrap appears could have instead been Vanny hallucinated where she thinks William is trying to 'recruit' her, instead of being a cursed video game). That way, we could have a completely new villain, but still link to the old story without having to re-use Afton for the millionth time. If Steel Wool REALLY needed to introduce the Mimic (which we really didn't need in the games imo), they could have had it that Vanny built the Mimic to aid her with her crimes, whilst Vanessa (either she's a different person in the game, or Vanny & Vanessa are split personalities for one girl who are unaware of each other) created the security system to stop the Mimic.
Pretty sure that they are trying to establish multiple villains. Having multiple villains in a franchise freshens things up. Never played any of the FNAF games but Glitchtrap/Burntrap and the Mimic would be alternating villains.
My biggest issue with vanny is that why couldn’t she have been her own character and Vanessa be your guide while trying to avoid Vanny manipulating her.
It kind of sucks that anytime we get a new character who is pretty great and has so much potential to replace William as the main protagonist, said new character just gets turned into a lackey for William (despite William being a decaying corpse who can barely stand upright). It happened with Circus Baby, and we see it happen again with Vanny. Hopefully, if the theory that Glitchtrap was the last remaining part of William, that means Vanny snuffing him out means that she'd gonna take over. (I understand that people like Springtrap, but I feel like FNaF Pizza Sim was the perfect way to set him aside and introduce someone else)
One correction you conflagrated Luis from SB tapes (that worked on Marketing) with AR Luis that actually worked in IT and was in charge of security for the servers
She had a lot of potential. Along with Vanessa. Unfortunately she wasn't in the game much. Though when she appeared in Help Want 2. It was the best part of the game for me. It was so cool.
Man, I just realized that Princess might be Elizabeth. I wish it weren't so. Doesn't it make sense though? Let's say she appears in PQ1 after finally letting go of UCN like the other pure souls. Old Man Consequences is there and has a job for her. She must defeat her father, "the king". Vanny's personality may be her shadow form, her Agony personified. That would explain why Steelwool changed the code and removed the name Cassidy, because it wasn't the identity Scott had in mind. He didn't tell them the true identity and the programmer simply made an educated guess while labeling the files. But I still say that the change is proof that "Cassidy" was never the correct puzzle solution to begin with!
why so few people, especially in the comments, are unable to understand that after fnaf 6 William was killed and Mimic took his place as the main villain (Glichtrap is also Mimic)
@@sh1myuu glichtrap mimics Tapegirl's voice and words, the game itself informs us that Glichtrap took his body from the game and did not create speech. Additionally, Glichtrap literally imitates William's behavior, drags someone to the back and is happy with the deed (already in 2019, there were theories that the last tape was created by Glichtrap himself, so he is clearly imitating)
@@sh1myuu in the first help wanted I have a virus, dangerous software used by a company that cuts costs, only in AR and SB we learn that this software is basically a mimic. this is the great plot twist of the New Plot, that William left and someone new took his place
@@sh1myuu and the books created for Pizzaplex since 2019 have every single mention of this technology and facial expressions at different times, I do not accept the argument of rewriting each book from scratch after SB because it does not make any sense
@@Fnaf-gx5kb Glitchtrap was indeed theorized to be an AI back then, but then Burntrap was introduced and people got too attached to the concept of "Peepaw Willy" before the plot twist came
It really feels like someone on the team HATES Vanny/Vanessa. I also see the "same person" thing as like as if Glitchtrap and Vanessa were sort of like the engineers for Vanny in a certain way, since GGY gives away that Gregory had his own virus that took over his body like a digital parasite. A way more grey situation than the fandom would care for (It honestly feels like the internet has an irredeemable villain fetish. look how popular Afton is compared to any of the more morally grey villains.) Also for the fire escape ending, it stood out to me as a "Her spirit haunts the Pizzaplex' burnt remains" Because that has been an ongoing theme in fnaf and it makes more sense symbolically than just "Lol twins" Which gets rid of the tragic complexity of Vanessa's character imo. Honestly though, her attitude in the main game always struck me as compensating anger for stress, rather than just "Wow what a bitch" People who are hurt, hurt other people, so it makes sense that she has a lot going on to act so nasty towards Freddy and Gregory. Stress makes you angry and she's a very stressed barely adult woman, who wouldn't be with a digital entity taking over your mind? What's weird is that they didn't even include her in any of the official holiday art which still baffles me. I would've loved to see the three star ending getting more spotlight or at least have some kind of development with Vanessa and Gregory as characters since they were both victims of the virus. There could've been some genuine connection with the two especially after Gregory saves her. Gregory is hated because of ruin, sure... but at least his existence is acknowledged! That's what annoys me the most. What is the excuse to cutting her out of new content? It's not like the story is tidy and masterfully written with zero plot holes, they can find a way to add her in another game. I can accept Vanny being a rare appearance even if it is due to cut content. It makes her a lot creepier that she rarely shows up, but Vanessa definitely could've had way more screen time and development. It's sad that she only became one of my favorites because of the niche fanbase bringing her back with the secret lore, fan work and appreciation. This was also before the movie when I got really invested with her and Vanny as characters. I would die for more Vanessa content and lore, hopefully something that doesn't outright banish the nuance of being a tragic villain/victim though. I don't want it to turn out that she's 100% innocent or %100 evil or something stupid like that. the cut content gives me hope that she was always going to be way more complex and grey.
Hmmm, let’s see. Jeremy (the child) loses Bonnie’s Face. Jeremy (the Nightguard) becomes to victim for the Bite of 87 incident. And Jeremy (The Beta Tester) slices his face off. What’s next? Jeremy (The Father) gets ptsd? Oh wait… Anyone who gets that is a real one.
They could always have Vanny appear in a sequel where Vanessa tries to fight off the Vanny persona. Not to mention her father Bill is probably the CEO of Fazbear Entertainment.
Speaking of HW2's credits, I imagine if Glamrock Bonnie spoke, he'd be in the additional voices by J-Top, can't speak for Shattered Chica getting a credit when not talking is her point.
I think Sonny would’ve been a really good addition to the books instead of the game but I wish that we could go back to security breach and make Vanessa and vanny 2 separate characters instead idk
If it were up to me here’s what I would’ve done with Vanessa and Vanny. Vanessa: for Vanessa I would have her be an ally to Gregory and possibly a playable character in security breach who is aware of strange stuff happening at the pizzaplex but isn’t aware who’s behind it all, I would have her be friendly and helpful. Vanny: for Vanny instead of making her and Vanessa the same person what I would do is 1 of 2 things. 1: I would make her a completely different person from Vanessa who rather than being possesed by glitchtrap just be someone who is down on life and just wanted to do her own thing. 2: I would have her be a Digital AI who possesses Vanessa in order to try and steal her identity but can’t always be in control, and we have to find a way to save/free Vanessa from her, in that way they would be 2 separate people while sharing 1 body. As for her name I would call her Giovanni as a reference to the VANNI mask.
13:47 These things are what in my opinion make it seem so forced that glichtrap mimics, those details of manipulation so human worthy of a psychopath like afton, I don't understand how people really think that all this was thought from the beginning, clearly not, and it's a shame in what could have been and what ended up being. Another theory was that it's really Wiliam talking about his childhood, but it actually makes what I said above even worse. You could say it's mimic talking about when his creator almost destroyed him but it wouldn't make sense since his creator is Edwin Murray and this is clearly told to point out afton has nothing to do with mimic.
Illumix didn't disapear off the face of the earth, they just stopped supporting FNAF AR, which is sad because there's a lot of unreleased content for it - like Lefty. It's strange, FNAF AR's still on their website but they've shut the game's severs down.
You know, there have been all these videos floating around lately that Gen Alpha can’t read and not to sound harsh but the FNAF fandom is kinda a prime example of that. It’s one think if they’re not actually writers and know the worldbuilding process is mostly thinking up cool stuff then figuring out how to work it into the plot, but do they also not realize if all the questions were answered in the first installment there would be no reason for another one? I mean, I stumbled upon this video as it was brand-new and we’ve had DLC and a whole other game that both feature Vanny since Security Breach’s release (plus everything before from HW1 and Special Delivery). I get not everyone’s gonna have a family of English teachers like me, but c’mon.
As someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder, formerly multiple personality disorder, it’s really frustrating that we are always portrayed to have an “evil personality”, it’s really harmful and stigmatising and I’m kinda tired of the trope. I remember coming out to my mum I have DID and ten first thing she said was “you’re not gonna… like… kill me.. are you?”. My MOTHER, who has known me all my life and knows ive only ever killed an injured pigeon that was mauled and I cried for weeks. She is also the cause of my DID said that to me because of media like this and like the movie “split”. I can personally relate to her (Vanessa’s) struggles though as I formed DID from a similarly traumatic childhood, it’s just…. Not very good representation. I want more DID rep but not from possession by the villain. I’m really hoping they subvert the trope. Also they’ve done the “good personality bad personality” trope so much in fnaf itself, in just tired
i agree one hundred percent. im not affected in the same way as you, but it just seems so insensitive. using mental health as a scapegoat for why a character does bad things always frustrates me so much
Vannessa's body was already controled and glitch trap was birthed. glitch trap was kinda killed by vanny, but perhaps vanny was not vanessa. elenor has controled and pretended.
Steel wool has 2 very bad and disappointing habits, the first one, whenever they try to put vannie in something, first they come up with something very good and that gives her depth and relevance, and then discard it and leave her as a character of the bunch, and second and this is more with the dlc and hw2 the first ideas of the game gion are a thousand times better and include afton and then having an explanatory masterpiece and loaded with rich lore, they also discard it, what's wrong with them. And I'm not saying it for nothing, the archives say it all, models scripts audios all pointing to what I already said.
1:39 I'll be honest, you can be for or against my opinion but under my point of view all this lost the grace and mysticism since mimic, hw is going a very good way in terms of story and characters, a Wiliam Afton with his digitized soul manipulating a young girl to cause evil and pain, now he is just a cheap copy next to a schizophrenic who doesn't know how to do anything.
That was talking about Patient 46, who is confirmed to be Gregory. Gregory was also under the control of Glitchtrap and he was the one they kept mentioning was manipulating her and got her personal information so that he could repeat her childhood story and pass it off as his own with therapists. He was also the one who eliminated each and every one of them and he installed Glitchtrap into the pizzaplex, the books gave a lot of this background.
Okay want hear me rant for bit. I DON'T MIND VANESSA ISN'T THE MAIN VILLIAN, it just the concept falls a bit flat on it's face. If Vanny/Vanessa in Security Breach was at times act nice or even freezing in to try and stop herself then I feel like that would be a bit better. Hell I even thought of a Alt take on the Burntrap ending where Vanny takes off her mask and stops Burntrap from getting to Gregory, though this kills her. It's shows Vanessa isn't truly evil and deserves a second chance. (A before anyone says, yes I know the Princess Quest ending is cannon. This in my own Rewrite of Security Breach, where it too has Multiple endings. Four to be exact)
Here I still believe that we play as Vanessa in Help Wanted 2, and Vanessa and Vanny have split into two separate entities akin to the agony monster seen in B7-2. I want to believe this because that means that in that final ending, Vanny kills her weakened master Glitchtrap, and heads out into the world as a fully self motivated villain (Possibly locking Vanessa inside the matrix in the process), giving another chance to be the full limelight villain we want her to be.
I think steel wool wants to make Vanny a villain again, because just look at all the evidence we have of ruin, how we can make an interpretation with vanny ending in hw 2, for me it's clear that they don't want us to believe that her story is over
Yeah, but that doesn’t line up with all the other stuff in the game that points to us being Cassie’s dad. We apparently are familiar with a faz wrench. Which, as far as we know, Vanessa wouldn’t have any experience with. She’s not a technician. She doesn’t have any experience with being a security guard, so she should have no experience with the faz wrench. Not to mention, you’re disregarding the other ending where the MaskBot gives Cassie the VANNI mask. It’s kind of symbolic for it to be Cassie’s Dad. And of course you have the Bonnie mask, which Bonnie is his favorite character. Idk how exactly it can be Vanessa as all those evidence points don’t relate to her at all.
@@nationalpv Considering the techician mask is a literal Vanny head, I see no reason why Vanny herself wouldn't have her fingers deep in that side of the Pizzaplex's operation, especially considering the amount of time she's been in there. We already have evidence that Vanessa was down in the bowels of the pizzaplex to capture the Mimic using MXES. The Candy Cadet story talks about a woman returning to the witches hut, to exact revenge now that she's older, with the guidance of a little boy, only to be decieved by the boy. The scenario where we get the Bonnie mask would definitely be familiar to Vanny, but unlike Help Wanted 1 there is no scenario where we actually put on the mask. The scenario is also within Princess Quest. Vanessa's game. I feel like it's a stronger idea that Vanessa is trying to save herself. I feel like the Bonnie mask is a tease at an upcoming protagonist, not the reveal of our current protagonist.
@@MrFreemanWithBriefcasenot to mention some fans probably will theorize that Gregory probably reverted to his GGY persona if the elevator ending is any indication.
I know the movie is not canon to the games, but I think it's not farfetched to think that Vanessa is really William's daughter if you take the movie and the previous clues (father nicknamed Bill and surname starting with an A). Obviously it wouldn't work if William got springlocked in 1993 but maybe that's not the case. It's only stated that FNaF 3 takes place 30 years after the FNaF 1 location got closed for good, but Follow Me could take place anytime before 2023, as long as there is enough time for Sister Location and William's decomposing to happen.
Now that I think about it, what the fuck it's wrong with Gregory, he says disassemble Vanny, but he you knew that Vanny is a person why did you order the bots to mangle her
I don’t agree with this cause in the princess quest ending we get to see under vanny mask it looks like Vanessa but then Vanessa walks out of the building
Pretty sure Vanessa and Vanny are the same character. I haven't played any of the FNAF games but Vanny is the brainwashed persona that Vanessa takes. Not to mention she probably was responsible for the fate of Glamrock Bonnie.
7:25 Say dude have You ever wonder why vanessa and by extension vanny are never attack by saecrity bots? Superhorrobro Mike said in his in depth video about vanessa and vanny that after vanny infortraded the mega pizzaplex she had a scrambling system in her mask so she can get past the infected robots unharmed
Kinda. She's part of the V.A.N.N.I network, which only others integrated into the neural network could see(that's why Roxy's eyes let Freddy see her and why Freddy in Ruin without his head can't get you at all in the network).
william afton had three kids. the crying child, his brother, and vanessa afton. the brother got his brother killed by freddy. william got his wife put in prison for abuse, and vanessa caused it to happen with her testimony, and in one mini game where william is searching for the crying child in part 4, you see a grave in the yard. that must of been his wife after he got out, he killed her. the person sittin in that chair telling william to leave the crying child alone is Vanessa
Bad Video. I only watched up to the 32 second mark and I couldn't handle anymore of this blasphemous video. edit: I somehow kept watching. The video gets even......more. other edit: This mans Vanny is cursed
As much as cool this idea is, I’ll be a bit bitter about it because I feel like Vanny was apart of Vanessa character and it’ll just throw Vanessa out way more.
@@ghost6836 I just spewed out the word cult because having a group of followers sounds more interesting. As for Cassie, it's just that at this point the idea of a Vanny type figure is just pointless now. Not saying that they can't make it work tho. They just missed their chance is all.
The main problem with Vanessa is how Steel Wool and the other writers of the Pizzaplex books keep getting cold feet and making up lore points that end up writing her out.
Good example is the setup of Security Breach and how it all got undone with a single story. All of the hints given in the promotional material for SB set up that Vanessa is who messed with the animatronics, and is who we need to worry about. Then her role in the game is extremely lackluster and meaningless, as most of her lines are cut and she barely even appears.
Flash forward two years later, turns out it was actually Gregory who hacked the animatronics under Glitchtrap's control. And for what? All that did is make Vanessa even more irrelevant for literally no reason. Why does she exist as a character if she obviously doesn't need to, since other characters keep taking what her roles were supposed to be?
Which is where I have to say that the movie version of her is FAR superior. She has a lot more potential there than she will ever have in the games anymore.
I have to agree with you, even though I think she has a somewhat complete story. It does feel like every step towards a concrete action with the character is cut from the games entirely, or either confusingly simple (regarding her identity). It's so strange to completely cut her out of the Tales books when it feels like a such a good opportunity to develop and flesh Vanessa out a bit more, even if it's with a random Pizzaplex story. Help Wanted 2's cut dialogue REALLY rubs me the wrong way, because it's implementation makes so much sense. But, oh well...
Tbf that not really the fault of the book. SB Retro CD's revealed that Patient 46 (later revealed to be Gregory by "GGY") was the one to hack/infect the animatronics.
@@januszjanusz536 It's like every badass thing they could have made her do they go, nah, let's give that to someone else.
Yeah. And as good as Ruin is, it completely screwed us and the character over. Because they chose the one ending where Vanny stops being Vanny. Even if she comes back, costume or not it will likely be as a supporting role and not what steelwool built her up as.
I mean sb was rushed so she was probably gonna have a bigger role or something for sb
Vanessa using the vanny costume like a super Hero to kill glitchtrap and trap the mimic sounds super badass
boo
@@thomasfarrelly2004Better than fighting afton...again😅
@kyflysupreme7727 is that supposed to make me feel better because in case ya forgot vanny was supposed to be the harley to this place and if aftons truly dead and vanny's now good then that means we have to rely on an animatronic that plays dress up and can mimic voices to continue this franchise at least with vanny it could've been fun and if glitchtrap wasn't slain then we could've played around more with that whole cultism thing but no new it's all up to mimic or jackie or whatever we're calling it now
The other story that Candy Cadet tells the one about the family and the pizza deal and how they all died is a paralelism to William Afton’s search for immortality and how he killed his whole family to get it
I generally love Vanessa. It just makes me depressed that she's not being used effectively enough in the FNAFverse. But people like me like to believe she tries to make amends and find happiness again, either stopping what's controlling her, or, some people, including me, believe she adopts Gregory at the end of PQ ending in Security Breach.
boo
I really like your theory that william afton was tricking vanessa into thinking he was her dad! I know you only briefly mentioned it but it stood out to me as I always see people say vanessa saw afton as a "father figure" but I think you explaining her troubling relationship with her actual father alongside the tape that indicated the trauma she experienced seems to effect her overall mental state concerning her father seems like a way better opening for william to come in and for the manipulation from him to run a lot more deep than his and vanessa's relationship being just some girl following him bcuz she has daddy issues and wants approval from a "father figure".. to me it seems more sinister and meaningful that william would pose as her real dad and vanessa is just too messed up in the head to fully realize he's not and she doesn't owe him the things she believe she owes her father
I thought that all that about her family was a lie and she actually had a happy childhood?
VR Sisters = Vanny and Vanessa are truly separate entities. I think where we've "gone wrong" is to say Vanessa is "under Glitchtrap's control". What if Vanessa is just herself, but Vanny is an "artifical" version of Vanessa that exists digitally. This would actually help to explain the urge to create a costume; it's an attempt at Vanny to physically manifest. This would also support the rooftop ending as not being in conflict with other endings; Vanessa would break away from Vanny and leave the burning pizzaplex, while Vanny, as a digital entity, is still left behind. The claw machine ending in Help Wanted 2 is then us giving the remaining pizzaplex-copy of Glitchtrap to the digital copy of Vanny still in the network. Vanny then crushes Glitchtrap, as to remove it from the system, leaving her as the digital entity that Cassie interacts with in Ruin; with Glitchtrap out of the system, Vanny uses Helpi to speak to Cassie with the fake Gregory being the Mimic. This could explain the in-fighting; think about it... Does it really make sense for William Afton to be arguing with the Mimic over who technically did what? It makes more sense for a younger character, a 23-year old person, to be arguing about that. ALSO why is it called the Vanni network? Doesn't that sound like it was renamed to the Vanni network?
This brings up a bigger thing; the VR/AR masks. Is it possible that each VR mask is custom? Meaning the Vanny mask we use in HW2 and Ruin are the same mask; Vanessa's mask? And that each employee may have their own; this is why the Bonnie mask is important --- maybe it is hinting that Cassie's Dad had his own "avatar", his own mask?
Sorry to say but they %100 are the same. This just isn't a debate. As much as I would have preferred them to be separate, steelwool fucked her over twice. Once by how she was done in SB and the second time with Ruin where they guaranteed that she will never have her chance as a villain.
@@EggsBenedict-te4nj I agree that Steel Wool messed up in giving us a new villain (I liked the idea of Glitchtrap "inspiring" the next villain, but not being the actual bad guy). But I guess the part I don't agree with, or are confused by is how do we know Vanny and Vannessa aren't two sides to a coin? They are the same physical person, but why can't they be two different personalities? I felt like the VR sisters really conveyed something clearly, visually; they look digital / unreal; they don't represent a pair of real-life "sisters"; they look like digital avatars that are sisters to each other. It also seems weird that Vannessa could phase between being "under control" and being "normal"; it just seems like what would make more sense is if she was often herself and then other times dissociates into Vanny / a seperate version of herself that interacts with Glitchtrap or maybe is Glitchtrap. If the latter case, the Vanny costume/person could be Glitchtrap having a suit made to embody itself in the physical world.
@@porcelainchips6061 Yeah the two sides of the same coin thing is how I see it as well. It would have been great to see Vanessa switch between Vanny as seen with the Vanny meter. But that just makes it even more painful to know what the final product ended up being.
The Rooftop Ending has led to no end of confusion in Vanessa's story. Is the Vanessa on the rooftop after the credits meant to be her ghost, now haunting the place? If so, there really isn't anything to indicate that she *is* a ghost (not see-through or spectral in any way). For all we know, Vanny and Vanessa could be sisters, or one or both could be robots.
Also, the teasers and trailers showed Vanessa in a more noble and helpful light, but the gameplay played her as the antagonist through-and-through.
Regarding that last bit, it's easy to figure out why. It's because so much got cut. It was very likely intended to be a slow buildup until the reveal happened.
I'll never get tired of Vanny documentaries and all the speculation they build up. Glad ur back!!
someone had to say it!!
I think a lot of people call her wasted potential because a. They never bothered to find her lore by playing the games or b. People haven’t made many expansive lore videos about her like this, so generally people just don’t know much about her.
After playing HW myself and later doing a playthrough of SB where I found all the therapy tapes, she quickly became my favorite character. It’s insane how much those tapes alone develop her character.
The real “wasted potential” is her cut story arc in SB as shown through the trailers. It could have been hands down the best narrative of any FNAF game by a mile, but we were robbed of it. But like, even if that amazing plot line was lost, we now have the great setup of Gregory and Vanessa and Freddy as a sort of found family on the run. Her character is FAR from done, clearly Scott/SW wants to make the most of this character if they’ve done so much to establish her personality/lore/etc. The movie made me feel like Scott wants her to be a significant, important character in the franchise, and HW2 seems to be signifying a new chapter for her.
So I’m super excited for what they do with her. I’m gonna have my optimism for now. She’ll only be a wasted character if she doesn’t return in any meaningful way, which I believe she will.
Yeah! There's a lot of info regarding her character in these games that being labeled as "wasted potential" by the majority of the fanbase just feels wrong in my eyes. I'd love to see what else they do with her, especially regarding the 'found family' dynamic you mentioned!
well again to tell a good story for a character that you won't even care needs to be told more ways than secret tapes, but rather giving more story of her while playing and then use the tapes to tell more about her so it wouldn't all go to tapes that nowdays doesn't line up with her character in some parts.
And its hard to make videos of her or theories bc her story and screen time was put to the bare bones and the only lore/story we now have is the tapes, ar delivery and the old trailers.
@@KZfnafXthey could always expand her role in another game. Have her fight against her Vanny persona and wind up losing at times as she and Vanny 2.0 aka Cassie who might go by Connie wreck Fall fest with 9 brainwashed children piloting animatronics.
Nah Vanessa was ASS
How I think the series should have played out after help wanted:
Vanny should have been shown as a copycat killer, someone who got a little too obsessed with true crime and hyperfixated on William Afton's crimes as well as certain Video Games (the Help Wanted series, some of the scenes where Glitchtrap appears could have instead been Vanny hallucinated where she thinks William is trying to 'recruit' her, instead of being a cursed video game). That way, we could have a completely new villain, but still link to the old story without having to re-use Afton for the millionth time. If Steel Wool REALLY needed to introduce the Mimic (which we really didn't need in the games imo), they could have had it that Vanny built the Mimic to aid her with her crimes, whilst Vanessa (either she's a different person in the game, or Vanny & Vanessa are split personalities for one girl who are unaware of each other) created the security system to stop the Mimic.
Pretty sure that they are trying to establish multiple villains. Having multiple villains in a franchise freshens things up. Never played any of the FNAF games but Glitchtrap/Burntrap and the Mimic would be alternating villains.
My biggest issue with vanny is that why couldn’t she have been her own character and Vanessa be your guide while trying to avoid Vanny manipulating her.
It kind of sucks that anytime we get a new character who is pretty great and has so much potential to replace William as the main protagonist, said new character just gets turned into a lackey for William (despite William being a decaying corpse who can barely stand upright).
It happened with Circus Baby, and we see it happen again with Vanny.
Hopefully, if the theory that Glitchtrap was the last remaining part of William, that means Vanny snuffing him out means that she'd gonna take over.
(I understand that people like Springtrap, but I feel like FNaF Pizza Sim was the perfect way to set him aside and introduce someone else)
One correction you conflagrated Luis from SB tapes (that worked on Marketing) with AR Luis that actually worked in IT and was in charge of security for the servers
I thought that was just a continuity error, are they confirmed different people?
@@Ben-zg8xk I also believe it's a continuity error between AR and SB, but with multiple Jeremys at this point who knows
She had a lot of potential. Along with Vanessa. Unfortunately she wasn't in the game much. Though when she appeared in Help Want 2. It was the best part of the game for me. It was so cool.
Man, I just realized that Princess might be Elizabeth. I wish it weren't so. Doesn't it make sense though? Let's say she appears in PQ1 after finally letting go of UCN like the other pure souls. Old Man Consequences is there and has a job for her. She must defeat her father, "the king". Vanny's personality may be her shadow form, her Agony personified. That would explain why Steelwool changed the code and removed the name Cassidy, because it wasn't the identity Scott had in mind. He didn't tell them the true identity and the programmer simply made an educated guess while labeling the files. But I still say that the change is proof that "Cassidy" was never the correct puzzle solution to begin with!
why so few people, especially in the comments, are unable to understand that after fnaf 6 William was killed and Mimic took his place as the main villain (Glichtrap is also Mimic)
That's just what happens when you introduce Mimic as a concept 4 years after Glitchtrap. They should've just made it clear from the let go
@@sh1myuu glichtrap mimics Tapegirl's voice and words, the game itself informs us that Glichtrap took his body from the game and did not create speech. Additionally, Glichtrap literally imitates William's behavior, drags someone to the back and is happy with the deed (already in 2019, there were theories that the last tape was created by Glichtrap himself, so he is clearly imitating)
@@sh1myuu in the first help wanted I have a virus, dangerous software used by a company that cuts costs, only in AR and SB we learn that this software is basically a mimic.
this is the great plot twist of the New Plot, that William left and someone new took his place
@@sh1myuu and the books created for Pizzaplex since 2019 have every single mention of this technology and facial expressions at different times, I do not accept the argument of rewriting each book from scratch after SB because it does not make any sense
@@Fnaf-gx5kb Glitchtrap was indeed theorized to be an AI back then, but then Burntrap was introduced and people got too attached to the concept of "Peepaw Willy" before the plot twist came
It really feels like someone on the team HATES Vanny/Vanessa. I also see the "same person" thing as like as if Glitchtrap and Vanessa were sort of like the engineers for Vanny in a certain way, since GGY gives away that Gregory had his own virus that took over his body like a digital parasite. A way more grey situation than the fandom would care for (It honestly feels like the internet has an irredeemable villain fetish. look how popular Afton is compared to any of the more morally grey villains.)
Also for the fire escape ending, it stood out to me as a "Her spirit haunts the Pizzaplex' burnt remains" Because that has been an ongoing theme in fnaf and it makes more sense symbolically than just "Lol twins" Which gets rid of the tragic complexity of Vanessa's character imo.
Honestly though, her attitude in the main game always struck me as compensating anger for stress, rather than just "Wow what a bitch" People who are hurt, hurt other people, so it makes sense that she has a lot going on to act so nasty towards Freddy and Gregory. Stress makes you angry and she's a very stressed barely adult woman, who wouldn't be with a digital entity taking over your mind?
What's weird is that they didn't even include her in any of the official holiday art which still baffles me.
I would've loved to see the three star ending getting more spotlight or at least have some kind of development with Vanessa and Gregory as characters since they were both victims of the virus. There could've been some genuine connection with the two especially after Gregory saves her.
Gregory is hated because of ruin, sure... but at least his existence is acknowledged! That's what annoys me the most. What is the excuse to cutting her out of new content? It's not like the story is tidy and masterfully written with zero plot holes, they can find a way to add her in another game.
I can accept Vanny being a rare appearance even if it is due to cut content. It makes her a lot creepier that she rarely shows up, but Vanessa definitely could've had way more screen time and development. It's sad that she only became one of my favorites because of the niche fanbase bringing her back with the secret lore, fan work and appreciation. This was also before the movie when I got really invested with her and Vanny as characters. I would die for more Vanessa content and lore, hopefully something that doesn't outright banish the nuance of being a tragic villain/victim though. I don't want it to turn out that she's 100% innocent or %100 evil or something stupid like that. the cut content gives me hope that she was always going to be way more complex and grey.
That was super awesome! I really enjoyed seeing this video.
I like vanessa and vanny :( she deserve more juicy lore
Why does Every Jeramy have head Problems💀
Jeremy
Hmmm, let’s see. Jeremy (the child) loses Bonnie’s Face. Jeremy (the Nightguard) becomes to victim for the Bite of 87 incident. And Jeremy (The Beta Tester) slices his face off. What’s next? Jeremy (The Father) gets ptsd? Oh wait…
Anyone who gets that is a real one.
I like to think it’s a cruel running gag at this point but it probably isn’t
Such a wasted potential... She's still cute though :)
They could always have Vanny appear in a sequel where Vanessa tries to fight off the Vanny persona. Not to mention her father Bill is probably the CEO of Fazbear Entertainment.
Speaking of HW2's credits, I imagine if Glamrock Bonnie spoke, he'd be in the additional voices by J-Top, can't speak for Shattered Chica getting a credit when not talking is her point.
I think Sonny would’ve been a really good addition to the books instead of the game but I wish that we could go back to security breach and make Vanessa and vanny 2 separate characters instead idk
If it were up to me here’s what I would’ve done with Vanessa and Vanny.
Vanessa: for Vanessa I would have her be an ally to Gregory and possibly a playable character in security breach who is aware of strange stuff happening at the pizzaplex but isn’t aware who’s behind it all, I would have her be friendly and helpful.
Vanny: for Vanny instead of making her and Vanessa the same person what I would do is 1 of 2 things. 1: I would make her a completely different person from Vanessa who rather than being possesed by glitchtrap just be someone who is down on life and just wanted to do her own thing. 2: I would have her be a Digital AI who possesses Vanessa in order to try and steal her identity but can’t always be in control, and we have to find a way to save/free Vanessa from her, in that way they would be 2 separate people while sharing 1 body. As for her name I would call her Giovanni as a reference to the VANNI mask.
13:47 These things are what in my opinion make it seem so forced that glichtrap mimics, those details of manipulation so human worthy of a psychopath like afton, I don't understand how people really think that all this was thought from the beginning, clearly not, and it's a shame in what could have been and what ended up being.
Another theory was that it's really Wiliam talking about his childhood, but it actually makes what I said above even worse.
You could say it's mimic talking about when his creator almost destroyed him but it wouldn't make sense since his creator is Edwin Murray and this is clearly told to point out afton has nothing to do with mimic.
Illumix didn't disapear off the face of the earth, they just stopped supporting FNAF AR, which is sad because there's a lot of unreleased content for it - like Lefty.
It's strange, FNAF AR's still on their website but they've shut the game's severs down.
You know, there have been all these videos floating around lately that Gen Alpha can’t read and not to sound harsh but the FNAF fandom is kinda a prime example of that. It’s one think if they’re not actually writers and know the worldbuilding process is mostly thinking up cool stuff then figuring out how to work it into the plot, but do they also not realize if all the questions were answered in the first installment there would be no reason for another one? I mean, I stumbled upon this video as it was brand-new and we’ve had DLC and a whole other game that both feature Vanny since Security Breach’s release (plus everything before from HW1 and Special Delivery). I get not everyone’s gonna have a family of English teachers like me, but c’mon.
I love the first sentence of this comment. Please comment more. We need more of you
What? Lmfao
Blame the public school system. They only indoctrinate kids.
Can you do a theory video specifically on Gregory ? I would love to hear more of your speculation about him. And also bc he’s a fave lol
ur videos are always so good !! Love this one
You're always so nice! Thank you!!!
@@lotodots of course !!!
As someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder, formerly multiple personality disorder, it’s really frustrating that we are always portrayed to have an “evil personality”, it’s really harmful and stigmatising and I’m kinda tired of the trope. I remember coming out to my mum I have DID and ten first thing she said was “you’re not gonna… like… kill me.. are you?”. My MOTHER, who has known me all my life and knows ive only ever killed an injured pigeon that was mauled and I cried for weeks. She is also the cause of my DID said that to me because of media like this and like the movie “split”. I can personally relate to her (Vanessa’s) struggles though as I formed DID from a similarly traumatic childhood, it’s just…. Not very good representation. I want more DID rep but not from possession by the villain. I’m really hoping they subvert the trope. Also they’ve done the “good personality bad personality” trope so much in fnaf itself, in just tired
That sucks, I'm sorry
i agree one hundred percent. im not affected in the same way as you, but it just seems so insensitive. using mental health as a scapegoat for why a character does bad things always frustrates me so much
Vannessa's body was already controled
and glitch trap was birthed.
glitch trap was kinda killed by vanny, but perhaps vanny was not vanessa.
elenor has controled and pretended.
Mrs.Potentially
Steel wool has 2 very bad and disappointing habits, the first one, whenever they try to put vannie in something, first they come up with something very good and that gives her depth and relevance, and then discard it and leave her as a character of the bunch, and second and this is more with the dlc and hw2 the first ideas of the game gion are a thousand times better and include afton and then having an explanatory masterpiece and loaded with rich lore, they also discard it, what's wrong with them.
And I'm not saying it for nothing, the archives say it all, models scripts audios all pointing to what I already said.
The story says the witch would finally have her meal . Meaning that the boy was being deceptive and the woman didn’t win
is it just me or was all of your moths open for like half of it
1:39 I'll be honest, you can be for or against my opinion but under my point of view all this lost the grace and mysticism since mimic, hw is going a very good way in terms of story and characters, a Wiliam Afton with his digitized soul manipulating a young girl to cause evil and pain, now he is just a cheap copy next to a schizophrenic who doesn't know how to do anything.
The witch story is a continuation of the previous story where a boy gets tricked.
Can you make a video about burntrap and his wasted character? I would watch it
Quick response, mimic appeared
@@undergamesstudios uhhh?
@@УкраїнаПовнаАнімацій Mimic turned what could have been burntrap into a non-Canon ending
@@undergamesstudios how
@@УкраїнаПовнаАнімацій You are not very up to date, are you?
HOLD UP! I thought Vanessa lied about her childhood and actually came from a happy family as was revealed in one of the cds?
That was talking about Patient 46, who is confirmed to be Gregory. Gregory was also under the control of Glitchtrap and he was the one they kept mentioning was manipulating her and got her personal information so that he could repeat her childhood story and pass it off as his own with therapists.
He was also the one who eliminated each and every one of them and he installed Glitchtrap into the pizzaplex, the books gave a lot of this background.
Okay want hear me rant for bit.
I DON'T MIND VANESSA ISN'T THE MAIN VILLIAN, it just the concept falls a bit flat on it's face.
If Vanny/Vanessa in Security Breach was at times act nice or even freezing in to try and stop herself then I feel like that would be a bit better.
Hell I even thought of a Alt take on the Burntrap ending where Vanny takes off her mask and stops Burntrap from getting to Gregory, though this kills her. It's shows Vanessa isn't truly evil and deserves a second chance.
(A before anyone says, yes I know the Princess Quest ending is cannon. This in my own Rewrite of Security Breach, where it too has Multiple endings. Four to be exact)
Here I still believe that we play as Vanessa in Help Wanted 2, and Vanessa and Vanny have split into two separate entities akin to the agony monster seen in B7-2. I want to believe this because that means that in that final ending, Vanny kills her weakened master Glitchtrap, and heads out into the world as a fully self motivated villain (Possibly locking Vanessa inside the matrix in the process), giving another chance to be the full limelight villain we want her to be.
I think steel wool wants to make Vanny a villain again, because just look at all the evidence we have of ruin, how we can make an interpretation with vanny ending in hw 2, for me it's clear that they don't want us to believe that her story is over
Yeah, but that doesn’t line up with all the other stuff in the game that points to us being Cassie’s dad. We apparently are familiar with a faz wrench. Which, as far as we know, Vanessa wouldn’t have any experience with. She’s not a technician.
She doesn’t have any experience with being a security guard, so she should have no experience with the faz wrench.
Not to mention, you’re disregarding the other ending where the MaskBot gives Cassie the VANNI mask. It’s kind of symbolic for it to be Cassie’s Dad. And of course you have the Bonnie mask, which Bonnie is his favorite character.
Idk how exactly it can be Vanessa as all those evidence points don’t relate to her at all.
@@nationalpv Considering the techician mask is a literal Vanny head, I see no reason why Vanny herself wouldn't have her fingers deep in that side of the Pizzaplex's operation, especially considering the amount of time she's been in there.
We already have evidence that Vanessa was down in the bowels of the pizzaplex to capture the Mimic using MXES.
The Candy Cadet story talks about a woman returning to the witches hut, to exact revenge now that she's older, with the guidance of a little boy, only to be decieved by the boy.
The scenario where we get the Bonnie mask would definitely be familiar to Vanny, but unlike Help Wanted 1 there is no scenario where we actually put on the mask. The scenario is also within Princess Quest. Vanessa's game. I feel like it's a stronger idea that Vanessa is trying to save herself.
I feel like the Bonnie mask is a tease at an upcoming protagonist, not the reveal of our current protagonist.
@@MrFreemanWithBriefcasenot to mention some fans probably will theorize that Gregory probably reverted to his GGY persona if the elevator ending is any indication.
I know the movie is not canon to the games, but I think it's not farfetched to think that Vanessa is really William's daughter if you take the movie and the previous clues (father nicknamed Bill and surname starting with an A).
Obviously it wouldn't work if William got springlocked in 1993 but maybe that's not the case. It's only stated that FNaF 3 takes place 30 years after the FNaF 1 location got closed for good, but Follow Me could take place anytime before 2023, as long as there is enough time for Sister Location and William's decomposing to happen.
Yet it could be possible that her father is William Afton's nephew.
7:28 Is crazy
4:38 Wait your way it that you don't search these up? You aren't normal
Now that I think about it, what the fuck it's wrong with Gregory, he says disassemble Vanny, but he you knew that Vanny is a person why did you order the bots to mangle her
i like to think of bill as William's brother.
Bill is just short for William
I don’t agree with this cause in the princess quest ending we get to see under vanny mask it looks like Vanessa but then Vanessa walks out of the building
So Vanny is is Vanessa then...
Pretty sure Vanessa and Vanny are the same character. I haven't played any of the FNAF games but Vanny is the brainwashed persona that Vanessa takes. Not to mention she probably was responsible for the fate of Glamrock Bonnie.
Sans?
7:25 Say dude have You ever wonder why vanessa and by extension vanny are never attack by saecrity bots? Superhorrobro Mike said in his in depth video about vanessa and vanny that after vanny infortraded the mega pizzaplex she had a scrambling system in her mask so she can get past the infected robots unharmed
Kinda. She's part of the V.A.N.N.I network, which only others integrated into the neural network could see(that's why Roxy's eyes let Freddy see her and why Freddy in Ruin without his head can't get you at all in the network).
summarising her appearances for 90% of the video is pretty boring
499 likes!
william afton had three kids. the crying child, his brother, and vanessa afton. the brother got his brother killed by freddy. william got his wife put in prison for abuse, and vanessa caused it to happen with her testimony, and in one mini game where william is searching for the crying child in part 4, you see a grave in the yard. that must of been his wife after he got out, he killed her. the person sittin in that chair telling william to leave the crying child alone is Vanessa
Afton Family Two Real William Afton Vanessa
Afton Family Four Fake
Bad Video. I only watched up to the 32 second mark and I couldn't handle anymore of this blasphemous video.
edit: I somehow kept watching. The video gets even......more.
other edit: This mans Vanny is cursed
why bother commenting? just click away. wasting your own phone data and it was all to tear someone down.
921st like!!!!!👍
I really hope in the future they get to re-introduced Vanny but this time Cassie becomes the new Vanny
As much as cool this idea is, I’ll be a bit bitter about it because I feel like Vanny was apart of Vanessa character and it’ll just throw Vanessa out way more.
@@Sisiai191 so what Vanessa was done dirty already but if Cassie becomes the new Vanny that’ll redeem Vanny’s character
Yeah but at this point just give glitchtrap or the mimic a damn cult. That would honestly be better than just Vanny attempt 2.
@@EggsBenedict-te4nj what do you mean giving the mimic or glitchtrap a cult and what’s wrong with Cassie becoming the new vanny
@@ghost6836 I just spewed out the word cult because having a group of followers sounds more interesting. As for Cassie, it's just that at this point the idea of a Vanny type figure is just pointless now. Not saying that they can't make it work tho. They just missed their chance is all.
Pls pin me