I am going to have to call in a sicky for work, I have to catch up on your episodes…I have never watched an episode that wasn’t Brilliant. Can’t wait to watch later 👍🏼
Flashback to the public rebuking I observed in church: the pastor called out a husband who had committed adultery. Right there on Sunday morning in front of the congregation. The husband and wife were in the front row. It humiliated not only the husband but also the wife. It served no purpose other than making us all uncomfortable.
I must have never been a real Xtian because I find that to be disgusting. I never understood the people who said how they were told to come to church to be humiliated and drummed out. Or the ones that demand that you be reconciled to your previous church in order to join the new one. What????
@@jenna2431if you were never a true believer that’s ok. I know believers will use that to try and beat you up and gaslight you, but never being truly indoctrinated into a system of self hatred is a badge of honor.
I don't really have an issue with humiliating adulterers, what I find funny about a Pastor calling out others is the pastor/preachers aren't exactly known to be faithful to their partners😂 😂
I love how they like to point out that Eve was "deceived" but completely bypass that Adam WILLINGLY ate of it even after he remanded her. Double standards continue to this day.
Ahh the 2-3 witness rule. I grew up in the JW organization and to this day they do not take abuse allegations seriously if there is only 1 witness. Sad.
So awful. They can't seriously think that predators are going to arrange witnesses for their crimes. I think this is one of the very worst things that JWs do (up there with denying blood transfusions).
@@BluStarGalaxy Exactly. Or there are 2 witnesses: the victim and the perpetrator. So all the perp has to do is lie. Who could imagine that perpetrators could lie about their crimes?
also, don't they say pain in childbirth is punishment for apple? other animals have awful birthing too, so what did they do? 🤨 did a cow graze god's lawn?
@@ennuiblue4295 it’s all just misogyny. The fact that Christianity /the bible is full of misogyny was the first thing that made me question the religion I grew up in.( And I mean deep in… My dad was a pastor and I was homeschooled by my young earth creation,evangelical parents).
@@MayDay-yn3bw It's actually worse for humans (and more specifically, for women..). Our newborns have a comparatively big head due to our larger brains, and at the same time our body plan - that has been adapted (suboptimally) for bipedal motion - puts limits on how wide the pelvis area and birth canal can be. So much for intelligent design 🙄
Funny thing about the women not wearing costly jewelry, I attended a school in Ohio called Gods Bible School, it was a very strict school and the females could not cut their hair, wear makeup or jewelry and could not wear pants. The couples that got married did not use wedding rings because that was jewelry and so was 'costly array'. Several times I saw girls showing off their 'engagement watches' that cost several hundred dollars.
OK, so people try to find ways around the stupid interpretations that people put on the Bible. This is not new, good, or surprising as it's been done for centuries. Our proper response is to live right in spite of them, not to decide that everything that they do not do is wrong.
@@craigsmith1443 I would think that people who revere the teachings of the bible would not actively defy it when seeking to answer that question, which is kinda the point being made here. Dressing special for special moments only seems obvious and polite because of the culture. Because of what humans decided they liked. It doesn't really hold a candle to "the morally perfect creator of the universe who's watching you right now says not to", if ever those two ideas conflict. Of course, when they don't conflict, then have at it. Also church is hardly a special occasion when it happens every week, for some people twice every week.
@@riluna3695 _I would think that people who revere the teachings of the bible would not actively defy it when seeking to answer that question_ You are quite right. This is also a message in all of the prophets and in Christ's teaching to the Sanhedrin and to all who do this: 'Why do you call me "Lord" but don't do what I say?' _Because of what humans decided they liked_ Yes and no. Yes in that fashion changes, so our conclusion about what constitutes 'special dress' changes. but no in that 'special dress for special occasions' seems always to have been the case from what we find in archaeology. What we wear is as much statement as it is comfort, and sometimes more statement than comfort. Even when we dress for comfort we make a statement to others. Special dress for special occasions is a sign of respect to occasion and to the people who keep the occasion. _the morally perfect creator of the universe who's watching you right now says not to_ Does God ever say, 'Do not dress up for worship'? He does say, 'Do not be a respecter of persons,' meaning, don't treat people differently depending on what they wear,' but that's not the same. _church is hardly a special occasion when it happens every week, for some people twice every week_ Note the term 'special occasion,' which has nothing to do with frequency. Just because it's not seldom doesn't mean it's not special. Families have dinner together frequently. That doesn't mean that it's not a special thing to do. Saying 'please' and 'thank you' to family members is frequent and special. Sometimes the most frequent occasions are the most special, like coming home after work to someone who is always there to whom we owe special gratitude every day because it and they are special.
As a former believer whose mother is a pastor, I will tell you that I had quite the doozy with this book along with Titus and 1 Corinthians 14. So glad that I don’t have to stress about the women in ministry conflict anymore!
_So glad that I don’t have to stress about the women in ministry conflict anymore!_ 1. It need not be stress. 2. How is this different from 'I'm glad that I don't have to think about it'?
@@craigsmith1443 I’d try to explain it to you, but unfortunately you’re still a babe and your fleshliness wouldn’t be able to comprehend spiritual things😉
10:16 this verse directly affected my family. According to my dad my grandma wanted to assume a preaching role at her church but they wouldn't let her because of that verse so she said fuck yall im starting my own church
Something I think every time I click on one of these videos but never comment is how much I appreciate the lack of sponsorships and lengthy intros. The information here is so worthwhile and important to share and for some people excessive sponsorships or long intros can put them off the video. With Brandon jumping right into the meat of the video, it eliminates that barrier. As someone who struggles to get interested in a video if it’s not hooking me within the first 30 seconds, this is one of my favorite things about this channel!
Great analysis ! I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit it, but when I was a Christian I did not believe women should not be pastors or in leadership because of verses like in 1 Timothy. I thought if women were preaching those churches were not “ real” Christians. Thank God for biblical scholarship and maturity.
Excellent video. I love how attentive you are to pointing out how the verses contradict and clash, presenting confusing and far from perfect messaging. It’s incredibly helpful for whenever the topic comes up about deconversion.
Another excellent Secular Bible Study from Brandon. No doubt the Bible does a very comprehensive job of having something in it for everyone. There must be 1000s of contradictions in it
The fact that so much misogyny in Christianity is owed to books that most scholarship considers forged is one of the reasons I’m glad to be away. Even the passage in the ‘genuine’ Pauline letter, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, has a lot of scholarship about that being a later scribal interpolation. Someone in (likely) 2nd century Antioch and Alexandria had a real bugaboo about women and made sure to push that hard. And women have suffered for that for 2000 years. Disgusting.
_The fact that so much misogyny in Christianity_ Given the teachings and example of Jesus toward women (which is of respect), there is no 'misogyny' in the New Testament, except where Christians act like atheists.
It makes me so happy that you are getting so much support, brandon, and this community feels really good.. I wish you and your family nothing but peace, love, and happiness.
"she must be quiet." How lonely that would be in a relationship for the man. There would be these whole areas of thought that would never be shared or discussed. One of the most attractive traits for me is intelligence, including creativity and curiosity. If you don't view your partner as equal, then what are they? Pets? Something you have around for superficial pleasures and service? No chance of real intimacy there, not even in bed. Good video, Brandon, thanks.
@@Jon45678 Even modern legal marriage contracts are about property. People act as if those are spiritual or speak of love, but marriage is about joint ownership, full access to the partner, and joint decisionmaking over the children. I never considered my legal marriage to be anything other than government forms. I had a separate religious marriage and that is my wedding anniversary.
Thanks for your intelligent comments. This gives me more evidence that anyone can find any position that they want in the Bible. No wonder there are about 10,000 different denominations in the US.
That is a falsehood. At best according to how statistics are calculated by the World Christian Encyclopedia there are only about 237 Christian denomations worldwide. So your information is unfounded.. See the video by "Ready to Harvest" --"Are there really 45,000 Christian Denominations? right here on YT.
@@christophergibson7155 10, 20, the amount doesn't really matter.. if there's competitive interpretations AT ALL it brings a lack of understanding and conflict within the Church at large, creating 10k, 45k or 237 denominations, thus the point stands that there shouldn't be any conflict with a supposed God and should be unified.
@@CatDaddyGuitar No. Although the word "denomination" means division, it signifies something much deeper at work. He is called the Holy Spirit. And as the truth of the Word of God is being restored to the church of The Lord Jesus Christ, there are those of the "old guard" who resist change towards the truth. (The Lutherans of history rejecting the Ana-Baptists as an example.) And Jesus did say that He came to bring a sword which would divide people. Not a bad thing, since "the sword" always represents the Word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit. Those who embrace the truth of God's Word will always move in the direction that the Holy Spirit and His leading in restoring truth to the disciples and followers of Jesus.
Paul's letters were written well after Jesus had left. I am wondering how the people of that time took him seriously when the "savior" he spoke of promised to come back really soon, and then stayed gone. What did the new religion do with that? Another question that I have is this: did Paul expect his writings to become "gospel", to become the basis of a religion that would last thousands of years? Was he writing for the edification of men of the future, or was his scope more limited? We can't know what was in his mind, I suppose., but I think there are clues in his writings. Sometimes I wonder if even he believed everything he wrote, or if he was making it up as he went along for the purpose of creating a meaningful life for himself. Did he think god was inspiring his every word, or were these just letters to faraway groups of people who believed what he was preaching when he passed through their town? Would he have been shocked to learn that in the year 2024, there would be billions of people that still read his words and tried to fashion their lives around it? I think he would.
Good point. Most people change their views as they get older. Like him or not, every thing he said is counted, whether he still thought it was the proper interpretation even when it contradicted his later thinking.
This was a huge one for a friend of mine. He refused to go to a church where women taught men in any capacity. He could barely handle a Church in which a woman was leading worship. Can't say he was wrong based on the word but you know us Christians. We all have (had) our mountains we would die on. The truth is that most all Churches' compromise. It's almost impossible not to.
As none of these religious assertions are anything more than assertions, I am at liberty to ignore them. There is an obvious reason why I have never seen angels, demons, or gods, and it's the same reason why I have never seen Lisa, the rainbow giraffe (leaf be upon her). However, I do know that Newbury, Berkshire (pronounced Bark-shire) exists.
That verse about being saved in childbirth was one of the verses I had the most trouble with as a Christian. I read it as being saved physically, like not dying in childbirth, but that doesn't help it not be problematic because that's something we can check and I'll eat my hat if it's impossible to die in childbirth if you're a Christian.
@@jaycahuenga6416 "It was a metaphor." Seriously, I just read the OT parts where Jehovah talks about dashing babies on rocks is meant to be a metaphor for stifling thoughts.
It's all about making a diverse set of early Christian and Jewish writings with different agendas and viewpoints fit into a particular religious dogma. Christians don't take the texts at face value, but negotiate their dogmas to try to create this veneer of univocality in the Bible that doesn't actually exist.
As a woman who didn't wish to marry or have children I always had a problem with the "saved through child bearing" even with the apologetics that at that time women had no social standing and being unmarried or a childless widow was undesirable for societal reasons. This is not social commentary, this is supposedly god given instructions to his church, establishing the godly standard of living. Why not tell parents to allow their daughters the freedom to marry or not and provide for them accordingly? Also flies in the face of Paul's teaching that it's better to not marry from I Corinthians (we know at this point it became clear the world wasn't ending, so a change of tune became necessary)
Fantastic work ones again, but i think it does just keep dancing around but not mention explitly the social norms at play here. Ie, the tension in Roman Greek society between (some) philosophers relative egalitarianism, and the hierarchialism of the aristocracy and land owners who dominated society, and who provided the example of "how society should operate", ie Paul is trying in the same stoic way to reconcile stoic freedom and equality with Aristocratic superiority and autoritarianism that undergrid both Roman and Modern Conservative thought. Otherwise, fantastic work overall mate, :).
I did not mean you did not mention that, but i think its still a bit more polite than just outright stating that Modern Fundamentalists just want to return to Roman glory, as someone born into a Pentacostal cult, i had to balance Neo-Roman and Scandinavian culture, which is a thankless task.
Also, as someone who has read a lot of the Apocrypha, its about the same level of Autoritarianism and bigotry, just with more fantastic imagery and theology lol. The things that made it in to the bible is probably the least egalitarian stuff compared to some of the less canonical stuff, who usually moderate the Aristocracy worship that "good Roman Literature" was expected to carry. So its the other way around, the less politically batshit stuff is usually to find among the lay literature.
I saw a famous apologist, ("banana man"?) saying Paul is here also telling Christians not to join Spartacus - which just show the idea of slavery being bad was already circulating.
People who tell you not to judge ancient cultures because they were fine for their era tend to ignore cultures that disagreed. I have no problem judging ancient humans because too often those cultures are held up as something to emulate. It is important to point out where we have become better people, so we don't backslide.
bingo, most apologist know they're making excuses when they make the excuses it's either that or their whole house of cards fall down so they choose to manipulate the text
I used to do many ultras. Then blew out my Achilles on my last 100 mile attempt in the Zion 100. Gained weight, stopped training, but about to start all over again. Its the garmin fenix 6 pro sapphire. Used it for every race and love it dearly!
@@MindShift-Brandon I've ran multiple 100 mile races. That's all my RUclips channel use to be compiled of when I started posting. I still have my Fenix 5x. I haven't ran much in the last 2 years because of burn out, but I'm getting back into it because I've put on a little weight. I'm actually running from Fresno (where I live) to Sacramento this coming November as a fundraiser for our local Buddhist Temples. I love your channel. Keep up the excellent work. I always look forward to your videos.
One of the arguments that I have used for doubting that any religious scripture can be relied on to accurately pass down divine rules for living is this. Do you think that any text which asserted that earthly kings need not be obeyed, that slavery was a sin, or that women must be treated equally to men would have been allowed to survive by the leaders of the time? Any religious text which challenged the authority of the ruling class would have been burned and the scribes all put to death. Of course the bible endorses slavery and misogyny and obedience to kings and earthly authorities because only religions which did not threaten the power structure would have been permitted to survive.
REJECTION of ATHEISM and RELIGIONS bring HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH Atheists, Christians, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who are unitedly claiming that GOD doesn't exist and the Bible is just a worthless and useless book of lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales will naturally be hurt, offended, and angered by the BIBLICAL TRUTHS that all persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all kinds of Religions as worthless and useless and submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 and obey his teachings too about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26 will definitely bring themselves honor and GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who believe and preach the LIES and false teachings and doctrines of the anti-Christs about "hellfire", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation" will never be glorified in their make-believe and fairy tale Heaven nor tortured for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell but just turn into worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths while loving, kind, considerate, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in GOD's right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@jaflenbond7854whoo boy. That's a whole lot of horse crap. Btw, Atheism isn't a religion. Get your facts straight and pull your head out of your backside.
@@CatDaddyGuitar Satan the Devil USES the Pastors and Leaders of all kinds of Religions to trick and deceive all human beings to believe the LIES and false teachings and doctrines about "hellfire", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation" that insult, humiliate, and degrade the lives and dignities of human beings and definitely bring and cause the dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS of Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions GOD USES the BIBLE to reveal the TRUTHS that the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43 will definitely bring honor and the favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 NOT to liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons but ONLY to lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King in obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 and the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26 is also NOT for liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons on earth but the guarantee that loving, kind, considerate, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in GOD's right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Probably not the correct place to ask this, but do you believe the letters to Timothy can be replys to the acts of Paul and Thecla? Especially, the first letter. Would love your take on this.
I am honestly struggling to come up with a strong arguement whenever apologists pull out the "You can't judge god based on the laws he intended for humans because those laws are meant for us, not him." card. Help?
I'd say "You can't know his mind or motives. If we can't judge him on our terms because he's higher than us, we can't judge him good either since it's still judgement." If they say "It's different, he's just good." I'd say "That's circular reasoning & special pleading."
@@noradrenalpacifist0543 To say that is to accept their huge mountain of unverifiable supernatural presuppositions, which is giving them far, far more than is warranted or deserved. One can of course grant all of their presuppositions for the sake of argument, but it's still pointless because the only thing that is going to follow from that are more supernatural assertions that simply cannot be proven false.
19:25 Jehova's Witnesses use this rule and have lost entire court cases over it enabling the protection of child SA. I'm directly aware of it happening in Australia, but other countries probably have similar cases if you look for them.
On top of the serious and obvious contextual issues with trying to excuse the misogyny of 1 Timothy 2 as being specific to the women on the Ephesian church, apologists don't seem to realise how sexist such an excuse is in and of itself. So, they're expecting us to believe that this beautiful egalitarian church has introduced this concept of men and women as equals in a patriarchal world and it is only women who are having trouble with being too domineering? This is just the trope of the 'shrew' or 'battleaxe' or 'bitch' dressed up in slimy, sanctimonious clothes. Even in the present day, there are so many men who blanch at the idea of women even looking to have the same opportunities as them, how much more would there have been in those days if Paul's message really was so egalitarian? Where are the equivalent verses forbidding certain men to teach because they were too domineering? Clearly that would have upset the balance - such men were instead forging epistles like this, just in case any churches actually were letting up on gendered restrictions. The most extreme case of this I've heard was an example given by Dr. Jill Hicks-Keeton in a discussion with Bart Ehrman on the Misquoting Jesus podcast - she brought up an apologist who tried to insist it was specifically the women of the Ephesian church who were the problem, and as an example he quoted the writer Xenophon of Ephesus (not to be confused with the Xenophon who was a biographer of Socrates and Cyrus) - the problem was was that the passage he quoted was from a romance novel Xenophon wrote, so hardly historical detail, possibly two centuries after 1 Timothy was written, and, perhaps most alarmingly, simply a description of a 13-year-old girl (!) in a 'meet-cute' with the romance's hero, dressed as the goddess Artemis (a virgin goddess, keep in mind) during the festival of Artemis (which was still very popular then even though Acts would have us believe Paul was turning people away from it). The apologist is seriously trying to argue that this is just too sl*tty, and so those nasty Ephesian women should have been disciplined that way, because...they were dressing a certain way in religious festivals that might have drawn eyes even if they didn't intend to? When they were 13? Hey buddy, the Taliban just called. It's common to see an apologist hoist by their own petard, but this might be one of the more egregious examples. The weird stuff about women being saved by childbearing is also contradicted by Galatians 3:28, which is appearing somewhere relevant for once - whilst it didn't exactly put women on an equal footing with men as far as social restrictions went, it did at least say we could all achieve salvation the same way. Just like in The Handmaid's Tale, it doesn't seem as though the biblical writers consider male infertility a thing - it's always women who are just 'barren', and, in this writer's mind, if they are barren, must basically be in the same position as those who commit the Unforgivable Sin.
I Timothy provides me so much fun at weddings because you can’t go to a wedding without scripture being read from this and I elbow my wife every time it says something how women are commanded to be submissive to their husbands as we’re supposed to be submissive to God. Of course she just responds by saying “yeah yeah yeah “
I went to a wedding where the couple wanted to say their own vows. Suddenly the officiating priest bursts in with this misogynist quote from the Bible. It was very disturbing and the couple were seething afterward because it ruined their perfect day.
do you ever talk about saints? Catherine of Siena I think changed doctrine from suffering to good works (can't have all the tithe payers starving to death ☠️)
I feel like you should cover the common Christian rebuttal of "people misused these verses". I have seen it so often. If we are not sure what a certain verse says with crystal clarity, and in which it produces multiple interpretations, the bible is unreliable, and therefore imperfect. And let's not mention the forgeries, which throws a spanner into inerrancy. It would not have been impossible for "Paul" to rewrite 1 Timothy 6:1-2 like this if he was indeed so against slavery: "To my fellow believers who are slaves to non believers, I urge you to regard your masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. But to my fellow believers who are masters to slaves, both believers and unbelievers, treat your slaves as equal in private. Do not do so openly, or you will risk upsetting the unbelievers around you, and bring unnecessary persecution on yourselves. If you need to be harsh to your slave on the outside for the sake of appearances, be sure to treat them in secret later. Do not forget that you are all one in Christ, and through Christ you have been freed and are no longer slaves to sin. And as the flesh is associated with sin, so too are we no longer slaves to flesh and blood. Treat each other as you would treat yourself. My hope is that the Lord will bring the day when we can openly treat each other with love, respect and dignity, as is God's ideal. But until then, do not treat your slaves as slaves in private, but love them as you would a friend or a brother."
@@christophergibson7155 Paul never met Jesus and held his preaching above Jesus and the actual apostles. It is absurd that 'Christians' value his ideas (and imposter's ideas) more than Jesus when they obviously conflict.
@@Badficwriter "Paul never met Jesus"?? "Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads." (Acts 9:3-5) Best to open up the Holy Bible and starting getting to know your facts. "held his preaching above Jesus and the actual apostles."?? Let's look into the Word of God once again..."For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."(1 Corinthians 15:9) "But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Galatians 1:11-12) "To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ," (Ephesians 3:8)
Tim Mackie is a nice guy and I'd much rather have him around than a lot of Christian experts, but he's got a huge "possible, therefore probable" issue with respect to scriptural interpretation. If it COULD mean something nice, non-threatening, or conciliatory, he assumes it MUST mean that. It's a lovely sentiment, but it just probably isn't true.
Well, to be fair, Tim from The Bible Project was giving a summary of 1 Timothy to a lay audience. That’s why he gave multiple interpretations of chapter 2. He also has deeper analysis on his website and he even recommends commentaries on his website too. So, it’s not like he’s being deliberately misleading or dishonest.
I do kindly disagree. Millions of people watch that video and will never dig deeper. He 100% represents that verse as only about the women of Ephesus and changed certain wording in the verse itself to help that point that isn’t found in any other translation. Thats quite manipulative to me.
@@MindShift-Brandon Well, I may be in the minority here, but I always dig deeper, by looking at commentaries and/or other scholars. Lastly, I think Dr. Tim, is an egalitarian, considering how in that video he also cited Junia and Phoebe as being women who can teach and have authority. But it’s been a while since I’ve studied this issue in depth, so I’ll have to look into it when I have more time later today.
Apologetic deception and misdirection is the principle reason I don't trust any of them. If they were honest, I would take what they say seriously. But they destroy their own credibility when they, at a minimum, misdirect the viewer into an interpretation they agree with. This misdirection runs rampant. Unfortunately, the rank-and-file Christian has no idea about this deception.
Not related to this videos topic but i have challenge for brandon. Make a better, more moral version of the ten commandments. The rules: 1) it has to be 10 2) it has to be written in the english of the kjv 3) it has to include the big three (do not lie about your fellow man, do not steal, do not murder) This can be a mini episode or a reply. Either one.
1) Thou shalt not kill, not even if they pray to a different invisible god than the one thou pray to. 2) Thou shalt not lie. EVER. And especially not to cover up the biggest CSA scandal ever. 3) Thou shalt not steal. Get a job, thou lazy bum. 4) Thou shalt not enslave anyone, not even through marriage. Get off thy lazy bum and toil away. 5) Thou shalt actually help others. Start that journey and not only speak of unkept intent. 6) Thou shalt not be an ass. 7) Thou shalt prove thyself worthy of respect. No kids for thou if not. 8) Keep thyself out of worldly view. 9) Thou shalt always be faithful to provider of thy nooky. 10) *_Thou shalt keep thy faith to thyself!_*
It has been a while since I've commented here. Still I'm trying to break free from this religion that has always told women that they were worthless...and the self hatred that followed.
@@BluStarGalaxy Nope. Nothing could farther from the truth. "Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)
@@christophergibson7155 Actually yes. Giving honor to the wife is empty words and meaningless. Just as Paul telling Christian to treat their slaves fairly is empty words and meaningless. Honoring a wife, to some abusive husbands, could be to force her to clean all the toilets instead of cleaning the inside of the septic tank. It’s a job of higher respect right? Shows more value right? Treating a slave fairly could mean giving 100 lashes instead of 200 lashes. Half as much is more fair right?
@@BluStarGalaxy God's Word is never meaningless. It is only without meaning to the one who who does not have ears to hear or eyes to see, just as Jesus stated.
My fan theory is that Timothy wrote it to himself, as paul, oh look what i just so happen to have found, an old letter that was very important to me-um-paul ..To me from paul, thats what i said. Just like how the levites and whomever else(maybe Josiah?) Wrote the Torah from the perspective of Moses writing from the perspective of god narrating to themselves.
If thats turns out to be true then it could have the real words of paul, but timothy interpreting it. And of course it could have Timothy changing Paul's words to agree with his own ideas when they could have been contradicting each other in their arguments
@@happybeejv What you suggest is what I suppose happened. Timothy tried to recreate an old letter. He got enough right to tick off some Paul boxes, but he inserted his own thoughts. Paul who thought sex was sinful would never never have suggested that women had to give birth to be saved.
Yeah he didn’t write I & II Timothy, Ephesians, Galatians, Hebrews etc. So much pseudepigrapha made it into the Bible. The reason people don’t know this is because they value belief and the benefits they get from it more than knowledge. They are content to eat the cake without knowing the unhealthy ingredients that went into making it.
Brandon, you nailed the women in ministry topic. The passages are black & white, while apologists and churches LIE through their teeth to justify it. This was one of the first cracks in my indoctrination, believe it or not. The dishonesty of people I thought were sincerely serving god who misrepresented this didn’t make sense. You also nailed the HYPOCRISY of the Bible once again justifying slavery. This little book alone should cause any Christian to question the myth they follow, but instead they revere I Timothy and overlook the horrors within it.
@@Jon45678 This was also a crack for me! I heard all the excuses for women leading in ministry as my mother has been a pastor for over a decade. I was so conflicted, but I’m glad I don’t have to worry about it ever again😂
So, once again the mask slips off Paul's or Pseudo-Paul's stance on women and slaves! Since you bring up the RUclipsr Unsolicited Advice, he had made a short video challenging his viewers to think of what present-day practices we perform today without much thought that may be condemned by future generations (heck, maybe even "Gen Alpha!"). It would be cool if you two could examine that subject after going over Ecclesiastes, or perhaps in a future podcast together - or with any guest. It is a question that fascinates me.
1 Timothy 2:11-15 11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. Back to you Christians
Yes, that is God's Word. "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4;12)
@@NAYR8 I am physical evidence. Jesus brought me back to Himself after being a backslider for 20 years. And now, the love of Jesus is sweeter to me now than it ever was as a young man.
2 месяца назад
Wasn't Paul secretly working for the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original Roman Catholic Saints' members of the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original symbols used by the earliest Christians identical to those of the Flavian Dynasty? And wasn't the earliest iconographic image of Jesus The Christ in a catacomb, under the city of Rome, which was owned by a Flavian Princess? Weren't all of the original Jesus cult texts produced under the oversight of the Flavian Dynasty? Didn't the Flavian Dynasty posses the only remaining copy of the Tanakh other than the Septuagint? Weren't the canonical texts all back dated like the historical fiction of Gone With The Wind? Wasn't Emperor Vespasian known as the Jewish Messiah? Weren't the Flavian's descended from King Herod? There was no separation of Church and State in the Roman Empire. And Christianity is clearly a Greco-Roman hybrid form of Judaism created by the Flavian Dynasty as an attempt to adapt, pacify, and integrate the rebellious and defiant Jews into the rest of the Greco-Roman Empire. Then finally Neo-Flavian Constantine chose the Flavian family religion to be the official religion of the entire Roman Empire. In order to consolidate power in his fractured Empire.. And then Eusebius edited and rewrote the history of the previous 3OO years. It isn't history it is all simply Greco-Roman mythopoetic literature. Today it is known as Historical Fiction.💙
Well ya did it again ! How it is that this guy is more correct in the interpretation of 1 Tim 2:11-15 Is just Wild! …. And, although he won’t like it, a testament to God’s grace toward men 😅🤷🏽 Paul’s pointing back to creation in vs 13&14 is exactly where Paul’s argument comes from. Has nothing to do with culture, sensibilities, etc… Good job there👍 Still missing the truth, goodness, and beauty contained there, but yeah, nature of the channel so…. Adam was tasked with taking his authority outward to the rest of creation. Man’s authority is not primarily directed at and over women. The roles are that man is to have dominion under God on the earth and the woman is to fill what man provides with beauty as only a woman can. Her job is not less it’s just second. And the work of man is a difficult one and he is specifically built for it so why put women in that position on the frontline of leadership and even less why would they want to be in that position? God’s created roles are a thing of beauty , work out beautifully and beautify all creation from the home to the ends of the earth when they are embraced and fulfilled. And women do have authority over men in vs 15 they have the blessing, opportunity, and responsibility of raising future men and thus exercising authority over them and the future of humanity, again, when the roles are embraced and the goodness and beauty are realized and acted upon. Those children become young men and women then adult men who will understand their role and authority in Christ and thus use that authority to love a woman well and promote the “weaker vessel” as glorious and beautiful prize that she is (weaker as in a priceless vase that is to be taken care of and protected on account of its beauty). The women that are raised well will accept the authority of one man that tells the world that she is subject to no man outside of the one that cares for, provides, loves , and protects her. Men are expendable women are not They should be protected at all costs. The man is to be on the front lines (of the church too)…. Not the woman This is a description of roles based on the created order and nothing else Good job there and as usual not very good with the rest 🤣
Satan the Devil USES the Pastors and Leaders of all kinds of Religions to trick and deceive all human beings to believe the LIES and false teachings and doctrines about "hellfire", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation" that insult, humiliate, and degrade the lives and dignities of human beings and definitely bring and cause the dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS of Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions GOD USES the BIBLE to reveal the TRUTHS that the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43 will definitely bring honor and the favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4 NOT to liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons but ONLY to lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King in obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18 and the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26 is also NOT for liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons on earth but the guarantee that loving, kind, considerate, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others will all be RESURRECTED back to life in GOD's right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
No defense of christianity to say that these passages are almost certainly interpolations by romans. Paul is one of the only figures in ghe bible there is evidence for, and about four and a scooch of the epistles were almost certainly written by this weird guy. Those four and a bit contain multiple references to women as his primary spokespeople and messengers to churches. Again, i am not defending the rot of the settler colonial religion now known as christianity, i am just pointing to some confidently known textual stuff. best to all.
@@MayDay-yn3bw widow is not synonymous with childless. In fact, it directly implies that they had been previously married, which also implies that they would have had children unless physically unable to do so (no birth control in the 1st century ). Although I think that the OP was speaking a bit tongue-in-check, your comparison is in opposition to the point I think you are trying to make.
@@robinette64 A widow is not synonymous with childless, but in 1 Timothy 5, Paul does equate having children with turning towards Satan (1 Timothy 5:15). Judges 11:26-40 (daughter of Jephthah) indicates that to turn towards Jesus is to never have children, which is picked up by Matthew 22:30 where Jesus says there will be no marriage in the resurrection. Matthew 22:32, Jesus says that God is not a God of the dead but of the living, which feeds back into 1 Timothy 5:6 "But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." Don't misconstrue the acknowledgement of sin with the actual advice being given by Paul to take a vow of celibacy.
My wife is a total bully toward me because I'm retired and she still works! She considers herself a Christian! I would rather have her submit to me than have her demand for me to submit to her in total contradiction to what she claims to believe!
im fairly young and have only dated once but I think you should try and work abit to come to an understanding with your wife because being in a relationship isnt about being in the right but working with the person you love to have a better life and maybe if you are able to just get a short time job working afew days a week that would help your relationship
@@fishman2586 This is the two step dance these husbands play with their wives. step one is submit to me and step two is don't stop giving me the things your submission makes impossible to give Being fairly young and possibly only knowing things like this from the internet, you may not realize this is a humble brag from an man who kindof likes, wink wink, those fiesty girls. Not that a part time job or paying hobby isn't a good idea, its just that getting a job is getting another boss and if he can retire, he can do with out that aspect. Just glossing over the fact that he is told in the bible to submit to his wife.
@@Badficwriter Do you have a bro or sis that is a goodficwriter? would I like their stuff? Agree with the counseling, if a cream or lub doesnt help with mutual submission.
Happy SBS Day! Thanks for watching
I am going to have to call in a sicky for work, I have to catch up on your episodes…I have never watched an episode that wasn’t Brilliant. Can’t wait to watch later 👍🏼
Here we go!
@@YNWA-1what a great compliment. Thanks for all your support
Good morning Brandon! I hope you have an amazing day and all your followers too! Getting ready to watch. I already know it will be great!
@@2aSunnyPlacemorning! And thanks for
Flashback to the public rebuking I observed in church: the pastor called out a husband who had committed adultery. Right there on Sunday morning in front of the congregation. The husband and wife were in the front row. It humiliated not only the husband but also the wife. It served no purpose other than making us all uncomfortable.
Seen this myself. How gross
I had a church put a very young woman on stage to force her to talk about how 'god healed her urge to masturbate'. She seemed very uncomfortable
I must have never been a real Xtian because I find that to be disgusting. I never understood the people who said how they were told to come to church to be humiliated and drummed out. Or the ones that demand that you be reconciled to your previous church in order to join the new one. What????
@@jenna2431if you were never a true believer that’s ok. I know believers will use that to try and beat you up and gaslight you, but never being truly indoctrinated into a system of self hatred is a badge of honor.
I don't really have an issue with humiliating adulterers, what I find funny about a Pastor calling out others is the pastor/preachers aren't exactly known to be faithful to their partners😂 😂
I love how they like to point out that Eve was "deceived" but completely bypass that Adam WILLINGLY ate of it even after he remanded her. Double standards continue to this day.
Great point
This. 👆
True
I agree
well for all we know they were both only afew days old and didnt really know any better so cant really blame adam or eve
Ahh the 2-3 witness rule. I grew up in the JW organization and to this day they do not take abuse allegations seriously if there is only 1 witness. Sad.
So awful. They can't seriously think that predators are going to arrange witnesses for their crimes. I think this is one of the very worst things that JWs do (up there with denying blood transfusions).
All it teaches pastors and church leaders is that they need to commit immoral and despicable acts with only 1 witness.
@@BluStarGalaxy Exactly. Or there are 2 witnesses: the victim and the perpetrator. So all the perp has to do is lie. Who could imagine that perpetrators could lie about their crimes?
I wish you had talked further about the “salvation through childbirth “ bit. Seems incredibly relevant to current Christianity and current politics.
Yes it does indeed deserve more attention
also, don't they say pain in childbirth is punishment for apple? other animals have awful birthing too, so what did they do? 🤨 did a cow graze god's lawn?
@@ennuiblue4295kinda seems like a hazard inherent to large mammals...
@@ennuiblue4295 it’s all just misogyny. The fact that Christianity /the bible is full of misogyny was the first thing that made me question the religion I grew up in.( And I mean deep in… My dad was a pastor and I was homeschooled by my young earth creation,evangelical parents).
@@MayDay-yn3bw It's actually worse for humans (and more specifically, for women..). Our newborns have a comparatively big head due to our larger brains, and at the same time our body plan - that has been adapted (suboptimally) for bipedal motion - puts limits on how wide the pelvis area and birth canal can be.
So much for intelligent design 🙄
Funny thing about the women not wearing costly jewelry, I attended a school in Ohio called Gods Bible School, it was a very strict school and the females could not cut their hair, wear makeup or jewelry and could not wear pants. The couples that got married did not use wedding rings because that was jewelry and so was 'costly array'. Several times I saw girls showing off their 'engagement watches' that cost several hundred dollars.
thats wild, but its also hard to argue, they believed in the bible and followed it. More than most can say.
OK, so people try to find ways around the stupid interpretations that people put on the Bible. This is not new, good, or surprising as it's been done for centuries. Our proper response is to live right in spite of them, not to decide that everything that they do not do is wrong.
19:41 The fact that it is called "your Sunday Best" kind of gives away the game.
Not to mention the very existence of the phrase "clutching your pearls." Why d'ya have those, huh?
How should you dress for a special occasion?
@@craigsmith1443 I would think that people who revere the teachings of the bible would not actively defy it when seeking to answer that question, which is kinda the point being made here. Dressing special for special moments only seems obvious and polite because of the culture. Because of what humans decided they liked. It doesn't really hold a candle to "the morally perfect creator of the universe who's watching you right now says not to", if ever those two ideas conflict. Of course, when they don't conflict, then have at it.
Also church is hardly a special occasion when it happens every week, for some people twice every week.
@@riluna3695 _I would think that people who revere the teachings of the bible would not actively defy it when seeking to answer that question_
You are quite right. This is also a message in all of the prophets and in Christ's teaching to the Sanhedrin and to all who do this: 'Why do you call me "Lord" but don't do what I say?'
_Because of what humans decided they liked_
Yes and no. Yes in that fashion changes, so our conclusion about what constitutes 'special dress' changes. but no in that 'special dress for special occasions' seems always to have been the case from what we find in archaeology.
What we wear is as much statement as it is comfort, and sometimes more statement than comfort. Even when we dress for comfort we make a statement to others. Special dress for special occasions is a sign of respect to occasion and to the people who keep the occasion.
_the morally perfect creator of the universe who's watching you right now says not to_
Does God ever say, 'Do not dress up for worship'? He does say, 'Do not be a respecter of persons,' meaning, don't treat people differently depending on what they wear,' but that's not the same.
_church is hardly a special occasion when it happens every week, for some people twice every week_
Note the term 'special occasion,' which has nothing to do with frequency. Just because it's not seldom doesn't mean it's not special. Families have dinner together frequently. That doesn't mean that it's not a special thing to do. Saying 'please' and 'thank you' to family members is frequent and special. Sometimes the most frequent occasions are the most special, like coming home after work to someone who is always there to whom we owe special gratitude every day because it and they are special.
As a former believer whose mother is a pastor, I will tell you that I had quite the doozy with this book along with Titus and 1 Corinthians 14. So glad that I don’t have to stress about the women in ministry conflict anymore!
Same
_So glad that I don’t have to stress about the women in ministry conflict anymore!_
1. It need not be stress.
2. How is this different from 'I'm glad that I don't have to think about it'?
@@craigsmith1443 I’d try to explain it to you, but unfortunately you’re still a babe and your fleshliness wouldn’t be able to comprehend spiritual things😉
10:16 this verse directly affected my family. According to my dad my grandma wanted to assume a preaching role at her church but they wouldn't let her because of that verse so she said fuck yall im starting my own church
go grandma! go grandma! go grandma! 😄
Go grandma! Go grandma! Go grandma!
Go grandma! Go grandma! Go grandma!
@@rcktneoofusa😂🤣😂
Something I think every time I click on one of these videos but never comment is how much I appreciate the lack of sponsorships and lengthy intros. The information here is so worthwhile and important to share and for some people excessive sponsorships or long intros can put them off the video. With Brandon jumping right into the meat of the video, it eliminates that barrier. As someone who struggles to get interested in a video if it’s not hooking me within the first 30 seconds, this is one of my favorite things about this channel!
Appreciate that! I do try to
Great analysis !
I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit it, but when I was a Christian I did not believe women should not be pastors or in leadership because of verses like in 1 Timothy. I thought if women were preaching those churches were not “ real” Christians.
Thank God for biblical scholarship and maturity.
S Christians learn. This is surprising or a reason not to be one?
Excellent video. I love how attentive you are to pointing out how the verses contradict and clash, presenting confusing and far from perfect messaging. It’s incredibly helpful for whenever the topic comes up about deconversion.
Thanks so much!
Boom! Here we go!
Yeyy, new video! Exciting to watch. :)
Another excellent Secular Bible Study from Brandon. No doubt the Bible does a very comprehensive job of having something in it for everyone. There must be 1000s of contradictions in it
Thanks, Peter!
The fact that so much misogyny in Christianity is owed to books that most scholarship considers forged is one of the reasons I’m glad to be away.
Even the passage in the ‘genuine’ Pauline letter, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, has a lot of scholarship about that being a later scribal interpolation. Someone in (likely) 2nd century Antioch and Alexandria had a real bugaboo about women and made sure to push that hard.
And women have suffered for that for 2000 years. Disgusting.
_The fact that so much misogyny in Christianity_
Given the teachings and example of Jesus toward women (which is of respect), there is no 'misogyny' in the New Testament, except where Christians act like atheists.
And there's so much hatred in atheism😂 Hitler killed Jews and Christians because he was atheist.
@@smokerx6291Hitler was a theist (gnostic).
Nah, hitler was a athiest. like you guys @@cali115
@@smokerx6291 I’m not an atheist. I’m a theist that watches atheist content.
Hey, great job Brandon. It’s really amazing such a short book can cause so much damage.
right?!
Yay Brandon! A very well deserved 50K!! Here’s to 250K 🎉
Thanks so much, man. Its pretty crazy!
Congrats to 50k Brandon! 🥳🥂🎉
Thank you my very kind, friend! thinking of doing a q&a for it!
It makes me so happy that you are getting so much support, brandon, and this community feels really good..
I wish you and your family nothing but peace, love, and happiness.
Love what you do keep it up
Thank you!
I love your videos so much Brandon! Keep up the good work
Thanks so much for that!
Happy sbs day
"she must be quiet." How lonely that would be in a relationship for the man. There would be these whole areas of thought that would never be shared or discussed. One of the most attractive traits for me is intelligence, including creativity and curiosity. If you don't view your partner as equal, then what are they? Pets? Something you have around for superficial pleasures and service? No chance of real intimacy there, not even in bed. Good video, Brandon, thanks.
Love this. Preach!
@@maggienewton8518
Pretty much the common theme in the Bible says the woman is property.
@@Jon45678 Even modern legal marriage contracts are about property. People act as if those are spiritual or speak of love, but marriage is about joint ownership, full access to the partner, and joint decisionmaking over the children. I never considered my legal marriage to be anything other than government forms. I had a separate religious marriage and that is my wedding anniversary.
Thanks for your intelligent comments. This gives me more evidence that anyone can find any position that they want in the Bible. No wonder there are about 10,000 different denominations in the US.
But "God is not the author of confusion "🙄 riiight...
Indeed! And thanks
That is a falsehood. At best according to how statistics are calculated by the World Christian Encyclopedia there are only about 237 Christian denomations worldwide. So your information is unfounded.. See the video by "Ready to Harvest" --"Are there really 45,000 Christian Denominations? right here on YT.
@@christophergibson7155 10, 20, the amount doesn't really matter.. if there's competitive interpretations AT ALL it brings a lack of understanding and conflict within the Church at large, creating 10k, 45k or 237 denominations, thus the point stands that there shouldn't be any conflict with a supposed God and should be unified.
@@CatDaddyGuitar No. Although the word "denomination" means division, it signifies something much deeper at work. He is called the Holy Spirit. And as the truth of the Word of God is being restored to the church of The Lord Jesus Christ, there are those of the "old guard" who resist change towards the truth.
(The Lutherans of history rejecting the Ana-Baptists as an example.) And Jesus did say that He came to bring a sword which would divide people. Not a bad thing, since "the sword" always represents the Word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit. Those who embrace the truth of God's Word will always move in the direction that the Holy Spirit and His leading in restoring truth to the disciples and followers of Jesus.
Congratulations on the new milestone, Mr. B. Whoa!!
Appreciate that and all the grand support from you in getting here.
Good morning, Brandon. Bible takedown time!
Hey there!
👋🏼👊🏼😁
Hey man. 😂
Bam 🎉 Good morning 🌞
And a good morning to you from my relaxed afternoon ☕😌
Let's go.
Good morning!
What a legend.
@@BluStarGalaxy please, I'm only a man 😂
I look forward to this series every week. Thanks for doing this! Keep it up!
Love to hear that. Thanks!
Paul's letters were written well after Jesus had left. I am wondering how the people of that time took him seriously when the "savior" he spoke of promised to come back really soon, and then stayed gone. What did the new religion do with that? Another question that I have is this: did Paul expect his writings to become "gospel", to become the basis of a religion that would last thousands of years? Was he writing for the edification of men of the future, or was his scope more limited? We can't know what was in his mind, I suppose., but I think there are clues in his writings. Sometimes I wonder if even he believed everything he wrote, or if he was making it up as he went along for the purpose of creating a meaningful life for himself. Did he think god was inspiring his every word, or were these just letters to faraway groups of people who believed what he was preaching when he passed through their town? Would he have been shocked to learn that in the year 2024, there would be billions of people that still read his words and tried to fashion their lives around it? I think he would.
He would also be surprised that Jesus still hadn't returned
Good point. Most people change their views as they get older. Like him or not, every thing he said is counted, whether he still thought it was the proper interpretation even when it contradicted his later thinking.
Unsolicited Advice! Ecclesiastes! Awesome! Can't wait!
Thanks, it was a great conversation!
Hey hey! Almost 50K!
Will be doing a live q@a soon i think to celebrate
This was a huge one for a friend of mine. He refused to go to a church where women taught men in any capacity. He could barely handle a Church in which a woman was leading worship. Can't say he was wrong based on the word but you know us Christians. We all have (had) our mountains we would die on. The truth is that most all Churches' compromise. It's almost impossible not to.
Yep, not only do they ALL compromise, but the majority are convinced the others are going to hell for their compromises 😂
I haven’t been this early before! Happy SBS Day!
Thanks for being here!
50k!!!!! Big congrats Brandon!!! NOW can we get that studio tour? 😂
hey thanks Jon! pretty darn crazy!! and yes lol if i ever finish the studio, we can do a tour, ha. but hoping for a live q&a within the next week.
50K subscribers! Wow! Congratulations!!
Pretty crazy, man! Thank you
Another great video! Thanks Brandon!❤
Great video as always! Congrats on 50k subs!!
Appreciate that so much!
As none of these religious assertions are anything more than assertions, I am at liberty to ignore them. There is an obvious reason why I have never seen angels, demons, or gods, and it's the same reason why I have never seen Lisa, the rainbow giraffe (leaf be upon her). However, I do know that Newbury, Berkshire (pronounced Bark-shire) exists.
Don't go to skinwalker ranch
@@ShadowPillX64 I've heard about Skinwalker Ranch. How convenient that the events occur in one place.
What's really funny is the ad which came up was for a children's book, How Great is Our God.😂
Oh boy, this one's gonna be tough...
Excellent!
That verse about being saved in childbirth was one of the verses I had the most trouble with as a Christian. I read it as being saved physically, like not dying in childbirth, but that doesn't help it not be problematic because that's something we can check and I'll eat my hat if it's impossible to die in childbirth if you're a Christian.
I'm earlyyyyyy! what a good day indeed!
Thanks so much for watching
Spot on!
Thanks!
Any time a passage is bad, "it's hard to understand." LOL, apologists are just failed comedians.
Amazing that only Christians find gods wisdom beyond the understanding of man. I usually find either quite childish or outright disgusting.
"it was taken outta context"🥴
@@jaycahuenga6416 "It was a metaphor." Seriously, I just read the OT parts where Jehovah talks about dashing babies on rocks is meant to be a metaphor for stifling thoughts.
16:25 i watched that entire series!
let’s go, Timothy
Happy SBS
Thanks for watching!
I wonder if Paul was the inspiration for the word appalling.
Are you planning on covering some of the more popular books that failed to make the canon?
I am indeed!
It's all about making a diverse set of early Christian and Jewish writings with different agendas and viewpoints fit into a particular religious dogma. Christians don't take the texts at face value, but negotiate their dogmas to try to create this veneer of univocality in the Bible that doesn't actually exist.
I love hearing Christians make excuses for this book of the bible. They are fun to watch and the song and dance they preform is very entertaining
You asked us a couple times to tell you how you are wrong but we cannot because you are not wrong - not on one single point!
As a woman who didn't wish to marry or have children I always had a problem with the "saved through child bearing" even with the apologetics that at that time women had no social standing and being unmarried or a childless widow was undesirable for societal reasons. This is not social commentary, this is supposedly god given instructions to his church, establishing the godly standard of living. Why not tell parents to allow their daughters the freedom to marry or not and provide for them accordingly? Also flies in the face of Paul's teaching that it's better to not marry from I Corinthians (we know at this point it became clear the world wasn't ending, so a change of tune became necessary)
great point!
Well said!
Fantastic work ones again, but i think it does just keep dancing around but not mention explitly the social norms at play here. Ie, the tension in Roman Greek society between (some) philosophers relative egalitarianism, and the hierarchialism of the aristocracy and land owners who dominated society, and who provided the example of "how society should operate", ie Paul is trying in the same stoic way to reconcile stoic freedom and equality with Aristocratic superiority and autoritarianism that undergrid both Roman and Modern Conservative thought. Otherwise, fantastic work overall mate, :).
I did not mean you did not mention that, but i think its still a bit more polite than just outright stating that Modern Fundamentalists just want to return to Roman glory, as someone born into a Pentacostal cult, i had to balance Neo-Roman and Scandinavian culture, which is a thankless task.
Also, as someone who has read a lot of the Apocrypha, its about the same level of Autoritarianism and bigotry, just with more fantastic imagery and theology lol. The things that made it in to the bible is probably the least egalitarian stuff compared to some of the less canonical stuff, who usually moderate the Aristocracy worship that "good Roman Literature" was expected to carry. So its the other way around, the less politically batshit stuff is usually to find among the lay literature.
I saw a famous apologist, ("banana man"?) saying Paul is here also telling Christians not to join Spartacus - which just show the idea of slavery being bad was already circulating.
Wait, wait, wait.... Spartacus? That dude was killed nearly a full 100 years prior to Jesus' crucifixion. Whoever that apologist was, they're a moron.
People who tell you not to judge ancient cultures because they were fine for their era tend to ignore cultures that disagreed. I have no problem judging ancient humans because too often those cultures are held up as something to emulate. It is important to point out where we have become better people, so we don't backslide.
@@Badficwriter absolutely!
bingo, most apologist know they're making excuses when they make the excuses it's either that or their whole house of cards fall down so they choose to manipulate the text
By the time they get to Timothy, the paulinian Christians are in for the long haul
Brandon, will you remind us about the new podcast, is it going to remain on this channel or are you going to start a new channel for the podcast?
Is it a coincidence that Paulogia just published a video on the authorship of the epistles?
I'll have to check it out!
@@stevewebber707 nope, that’s a sign from God😂
As usual, great informative video. A little off topic, what kind of watch are you wearing and do you run ultramarathons?
I used to do many ultras. Then blew out my Achilles on my last 100 mile attempt in the Zion 100. Gained weight, stopped training, but about to start all over again. Its the garmin fenix 6 pro sapphire. Used it for every race and love it dearly!
@@MindShift-Brandon I've ran multiple 100 mile races. That's all my RUclips channel use to be compiled of when I started posting. I still have my Fenix 5x. I haven't ran much in the last 2 years because of burn out, but I'm getting back into it because I've put on a little weight. I'm actually running from Fresno (where I live) to Sacramento this coming November as a fundraiser for our local Buddhist Temples.
I love your channel. Keep up the excellent work. I always look forward to your videos.
Too cool my man. Maybe someday i’ll see you on a race trail.
@@MindShift-Brandon that would be pretty awesome!! We might have to make that happen sometime.
@@DavidThullI grew up in Clovis. Small world. Lots of memories and experiences in that area along with Fresno.
One of the arguments that I have used for doubting that any religious scripture can be relied on to accurately pass down divine rules for living is this. Do you think that any text which asserted that earthly kings need not be obeyed, that slavery was a sin, or that women must be treated equally to men would have been allowed to survive by the leaders of the time? Any religious text which challenged the authority of the ruling class would have been burned and the scribes all put to death. Of course the bible endorses slavery and misogyny and obedience to kings and earthly authorities because only religions which did not threaten the power structure would have been permitted to survive.
REJECTION of ATHEISM and RELIGIONS bring HONOR and ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE on EARTH
Atheists, Christians, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
who are unitedly claiming that GOD doesn't exist and the Bible is just a worthless and useless book of lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales
will
naturally be hurt, offended, and angered by the BIBLICAL TRUTHS
that
all persons on earth who rejected Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and all kinds of Religions
as worthless and useless
and
submit instead to the authority of Jesus Christ in obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18
and obey his teachings too about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" written in Luke 4: 43 and John 11: 25, 26
will
definitely bring themselves honor and GOD's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4.
Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
who
believe and preach the LIES and false teachings and doctrines of the anti-Christs about
"hellfire", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
will
never be glorified in their make-believe and fairy tale Heaven nor tortured for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell
but just turn into worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths
while
loving, kind, considerate, and respectful persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in GOD's right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@jaflenbond7854whoo boy. That's a whole lot of horse crap. Btw, Atheism isn't a religion. Get your facts straight and pull your head out of your backside.
@@CatDaddyGuitar Satan the Devil USES the Pastors and Leaders of all kinds of Religions
to trick and deceive all human beings to believe the LIES and false teachings and doctrines about
"hellfire", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
that
insult, humiliate, and degrade the lives and dignities of human beings
and definitely bring and cause the dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS
of
Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
GOD USES the BIBLE to reveal the TRUTHS
that
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43
will
definitely bring honor and the favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
NOT
to liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons
but
ONLY
to lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth
who
honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King in obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18
and
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26
is also
NOT for liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons on earth
but
the guarantee
that
loving, kind, considerate, and respectful persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in GOD's right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@@CatDaddyGuitar ignore the copy paste troll. It will never engage in any conversation
Probably not the correct place to ask this, but do you believe the letters to Timothy can be replys to the acts of Paul and Thecla? Especially, the first letter. Would love your take on this.
This comment is an offering to the Algorithm
ha, many thanks!
Hope you do secular stories at some point.
Will do!
Sorry… where do I find the podcasts? Is it here or a different RUclips channel, or on Patreon…? I’d really like to follow these. 😊
I have the one episode out so far. And yes its here on this channel about 5 videos behind this one with apostate Aladdin. Thanks!
@@MindShift-Brandon Oh great! Thanks so much. Somehow I missed that, but it’ll give me something to listen to tonight. Cheers! 👍
Go figure..1Tim 5:19 is already building protection for authority (elders).
yup, the corruption was immediate!
I am honestly struggling to come up with a strong arguement whenever apologists pull out the "You can't judge god based on the laws he intended for humans because those laws are meant for us, not him." card. Help?
It’s not really an argument, it’s an assertion about the supernatural, something which is unverifiable. The best response is “How do you know?”
I'd say "You can't know his mind or motives. If we can't judge him on our terms because he's higher than us, we can't judge him good either since it's still judgement." If they say "It's different, he's just good." I'd say "That's circular reasoning & special pleading."
@@noradrenalpacifist0543 To say that is to accept their huge mountain of unverifiable supernatural presuppositions, which is giving them far, far more than is warranted or deserved. One can of course grant all of their presuppositions for the sake of argument, but it's still pointless because the only thing that is going to follow from that are more supernatural assertions that simply cannot be proven false.
@@WS-dd8ow I don't see how. I'm saying diametrically opposed comments. If we can't judge God, we can't judge him good. That's granting nothing
@@noradrenalpacifist0543 That statement presupposes that a certain christian version of the Hebrew god exists.
Long story short: As soon as you whittle down your pantheon to one male-referent god, the boys all win the birth prize.
19:25 Jehova's Witnesses use this rule and have lost entire court cases over it enabling the protection of child SA.
I'm directly aware of it happening in Australia, but other countries probably have similar cases if you look for them.
On top of the serious and obvious contextual issues with trying to excuse the misogyny of 1 Timothy 2 as being specific to the women on the Ephesian church, apologists don't seem to realise how sexist such an excuse is in and of itself. So, they're expecting us to believe that this beautiful egalitarian church has introduced this concept of men and women as equals in a patriarchal world and it is only women who are having trouble with being too domineering? This is just the trope of the 'shrew' or 'battleaxe' or 'bitch' dressed up in slimy, sanctimonious clothes. Even in the present day, there are so many men who blanch at the idea of women even looking to have the same opportunities as them, how much more would there have been in those days if Paul's message really was so egalitarian? Where are the equivalent verses forbidding certain men to teach because they were too domineering? Clearly that would have upset the balance - such men were instead forging epistles like this, just in case any churches actually were letting up on gendered restrictions.
The most extreme case of this I've heard was an example given by Dr. Jill Hicks-Keeton in a discussion with Bart Ehrman on the Misquoting Jesus podcast - she brought up an apologist who tried to insist it was specifically the women of the Ephesian church who were the problem, and as an example he quoted the writer Xenophon of Ephesus (not to be confused with the Xenophon who was a biographer of Socrates and Cyrus) - the problem was was that the passage he quoted was from a romance novel Xenophon wrote, so hardly historical detail, possibly two centuries after 1 Timothy was written, and, perhaps most alarmingly, simply a description of a 13-year-old girl (!) in a 'meet-cute' with the romance's hero, dressed as the goddess Artemis (a virgin goddess, keep in mind) during the festival of Artemis (which was still very popular then even though Acts would have us believe Paul was turning people away from it). The apologist is seriously trying to argue that this is just too sl*tty, and so those nasty Ephesian women should have been disciplined that way, because...they were dressing a certain way in religious festivals that might have drawn eyes even if they didn't intend to? When they were 13? Hey buddy, the Taliban just called. It's common to see an apologist hoist by their own petard, but this might be one of the more egregious examples.
The weird stuff about women being saved by childbearing is also contradicted by Galatians 3:28, which is appearing somewhere relevant for once - whilst it didn't exactly put women on an equal footing with men as far as social restrictions went, it did at least say we could all achieve salvation the same way. Just like in The Handmaid's Tale, it doesn't seem as though the biblical writers consider male infertility a thing - it's always women who are just 'barren', and, in this writer's mind, if they are barren, must basically be in the same position as those who commit the Unforgivable Sin.
Great thoughts and so very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
I Timothy provides me so much fun at weddings because you can’t go to a wedding without scripture being read from this and I elbow my wife every time it says something how women are commanded to be submissive to their husbands as we’re supposed to be submissive to God. Of course she just responds by saying “yeah yeah yeah “
I went to a wedding where the couple wanted to say their own vows. Suddenly the officiating priest bursts in with this misogynist quote from the Bible. It was very disturbing and the couple were seething afterward because it ruined their perfect day.
I'm starting to think Paul was Mohamed Prime
do you ever talk about saints? Catherine of Siena I think changed doctrine from suffering to good works (can't have all the tithe payers starving to death ☠️)
Thanks for the support. And no not too much but i have a few ideas around them in the someday file
I feel like you should cover the common Christian rebuttal of "people misused these verses". I have seen it so often.
If we are not sure what a certain verse says with crystal clarity, and in which it produces multiple interpretations, the bible is unreliable, and therefore imperfect.
And let's not mention the forgeries, which throws a spanner into inerrancy.
It would not have been impossible for "Paul" to rewrite 1 Timothy 6:1-2 like this if he was indeed so against slavery:
"To my fellow believers who are slaves to non believers, I urge you to regard your masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. But to my fellow believers who are masters to slaves, both believers and unbelievers, treat your slaves as equal in private. Do not do so openly, or you will risk upsetting the unbelievers around you, and bring unnecessary persecution on yourselves. If you need to be harsh to your slave on the outside for the sake of appearances, be sure to treat them in secret later.
Do not forget that you are all one in Christ, and through Christ you have been freed and are no longer slaves to sin. And as the flesh is associated with sin, so too are we no longer slaves to flesh and blood. Treat each other as you would treat yourself. My hope is that the Lord will bring the day when we can openly treat each other with love, respect and dignity, as is God's ideal. But until then, do not treat your slaves as slaves in private, but love them as you would a friend or a brother."
Look, you too are doing better than God!
Yup. And yup.
The rewrite is more in keeping with Jesus "as you have treated the least of these, you have treated me".
I don't need Paul. I don't need fake Paul.
Yes, that is what the sinner would say when the conviction of the Holy Spirit is working on their conscience.
@@christophergibson7155 Paul never met Jesus and held his preaching above Jesus and the actual apostles. It is absurd that 'Christians' value his ideas (and imposter's ideas) more than Jesus when they obviously conflict.
@@Badficwriter "Paul never met Jesus"?? "Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads." (Acts 9:3-5) Best to open up the Holy Bible and starting getting to know your facts. "held his preaching above Jesus and the actual apostles."?? Let's look into the Word of God once again..."For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."(1 Corinthians 15:9) "But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ." (Galatians 1:11-12) "To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ," (Ephesians 3:8)
Tim Mackie is a nice guy and I'd much rather have him around than a lot of Christian experts, but he's got a huge "possible, therefore probable" issue with respect to scriptural interpretation. If it COULD mean something nice, non-threatening, or conciliatory, he assumes it MUST mean that. It's a lovely sentiment, but it just probably isn't true.
Well, to be fair, Tim from The Bible Project was giving a summary of 1 Timothy to a lay audience. That’s why he gave multiple interpretations of chapter 2. He also has deeper analysis on his website and he even recommends commentaries on his website too. So, it’s not like he’s being deliberately misleading or dishonest.
I do kindly disagree. Millions of people watch that video and will never dig deeper. He 100% represents that verse as only about the women of Ephesus and changed certain wording in the verse itself to help that point that isn’t found in any other translation. Thats quite manipulative to me.
@@MindShift-Brandon Well, I may be in the minority here, but I always dig deeper, by looking at commentaries and/or other scholars.
Lastly, I think Dr. Tim, is an egalitarian, considering how in that video he also cited Junia and Phoebe as being women who can teach and have authority. But it’s been a while since I’ve studied this issue in depth, so I’ll have to look into it when I have more time later today.
Apologetic deception and misdirection is the principle reason I don't trust any of them. If they were honest, I would take what they say seriously. But they destroy their own credibility when they, at a minimum, misdirect the viewer into an interpretation they agree with. This misdirection runs rampant. Unfortunately, the rank-and-file Christian has no idea about this deception.
❤❤❤
Not related to this videos topic but i have challenge for brandon.
Make a better, more moral version of the ten commandments.
The rules:
1) it has to be 10
2) it has to be written in the english of the kjv
3) it has to include the big three (do not lie about your fellow man, do not steal, do not murder)
This can be a mini episode or a reply. Either one.
1) Thou shalt not kill, not even if they pray to a different invisible god than the one thou pray to.
2) Thou shalt not lie. EVER. And especially not to cover up the biggest CSA scandal ever.
3) Thou shalt not steal. Get a job, thou lazy bum.
4) Thou shalt not enslave anyone, not even through marriage. Get off thy lazy bum and toil away.
5) Thou shalt actually help others. Start that journey and not only speak of unkept intent.
6) Thou shalt not be an ass.
7) Thou shalt prove thyself worthy of respect. No kids for thou if not.
8) Keep thyself out of worldly view.
9) Thou shalt always be faithful to provider of thy nooky.
10) *_Thou shalt keep thy faith to thyself!_*
It has been a while since I've commented here. Still I'm trying to break free from this religion that has always told women that they were worthless...and the self hatred that followed.
No where in the Holy Bible are women described as worthless. It's a lie.
@@christophergibson7155The Bible views women as second class. Pretty much the property of their husbands.
@@BluStarGalaxy Nope. Nothing could farther from the truth. "Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Peter 3:7)
@@christophergibson7155 Actually yes. Giving honor to the wife is empty words and meaningless. Just as Paul telling Christian to treat their slaves fairly is empty words and meaningless. Honoring a wife, to some abusive husbands, could be to force her to clean all the toilets instead of cleaning the inside of the septic tank. It’s a job of higher respect right? Shows more value right? Treating a slave fairly could mean giving 100 lashes instead of 200 lashes. Half as much is more fair right?
@@BluStarGalaxy God's Word is never meaningless. It is only without meaning to the one who who does not have ears to hear or eyes to see, just as Jesus stated.
What determines ithe titles/ number of book? conventions i mean
This is like the fallen angels bible study 😂😂😂
My fan theory is that Timothy wrote it to himself, as paul, oh look what i just so happen to have found, an old letter that was very important to me-um-paul
..To me from paul, thats what i said.
Just like how the levites and whomever else(maybe Josiah?) Wrote the Torah from the perspective of Moses writing from the perspective of god narrating to themselves.
If thats turns out to be true then it could have the real words of paul, but timothy interpreting it.
And of course it could have Timothy changing Paul's words to agree with his own ideas when they could have been contradicting each other in their arguments
@@happybeejv What you suggest is what I suppose happened. Timothy tried to recreate an old letter. He got enough right to tick off some Paul boxes, but he inserted his own thoughts. Paul who thought sex was sinful would never never have suggested that women had to give birth to be saved.
Yeah he didn’t write I & II Timothy, Ephesians, Galatians, Hebrews etc. So much pseudepigrapha made it into the Bible. The reason people don’t know this is because they value belief and the benefits they get from it more than knowledge. They are content to eat the cake without knowing the unhealthy ingredients that went into making it.
Well put!
The more I learn about Paul's weird behavior the less I like him.
He needs to rethink his own beliefs in the light of reason and reality.
Paul is an interesting fellow, but a very questionable character. People who quote him disqualify themselves as Christians to me.
Sup Brandon
Howdy!
Brandon, you nailed the women in ministry topic. The passages are black & white, while apologists and churches LIE through their teeth to justify it. This was one of the first cracks in my indoctrination, believe it or not. The dishonesty of people I thought were sincerely serving god who misrepresented this didn’t make sense.
You also nailed the HYPOCRISY of the Bible once again justifying slavery. This little book alone should cause any Christian to question the myth they follow, but instead they revere I Timothy and overlook the horrors within it.
Thanks, Jon!
@@Jon45678 This was also a crack for me! I heard all the excuses for women leading in ministry as my mother has been a pastor for over a decade. I was so conflicted, but I’m glad I don’t have to worry about it ever again😂
👍
@Mindshift Is it possible for us as a community to come together and fight to ban Christianity altogether?
I don't know where you live but in Brandon's country you can't ban a spiritual belief system. You can only limit is ability to act on other people.
So, once again the mask slips off Paul's or Pseudo-Paul's stance on women and slaves! Since you bring up the RUclipsr Unsolicited Advice, he had made a short video challenging his viewers to think of what present-day practices we perform today without much thought that may be condemned by future generations (heck, maybe even "Gen Alpha!"). It would be cool if you two could examine that subject after going over Ecclesiastes, or perhaps in a future podcast together - or with any guest. It is a question that fascinates me.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Back to you Christians
Yes, that is God's Word. "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4;12)
How does a heart muscle have thoughts 💭?
@@NAYR8 You know what it means by "the heart" in the Word of God, The Holy Bible. It is your soul. It is who you really are. The real you inside.
@@christophergibson7155 so where is it actually located? Can you point me to any physical evidence?
@@NAYR8 I am physical evidence. Jesus brought me back to Himself after being a backslider for 20 years.
And now, the love of Jesus is sweeter to me now than it ever was as a young man.
Wasn't Paul secretly working for the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original Roman Catholic Saints' members of the Flavian Dynasty? Weren't all of the original symbols used by the earliest Christians identical to those of the Flavian Dynasty? And wasn't the earliest iconographic image of Jesus The Christ in a catacomb, under the city of Rome, which was owned by a Flavian Princess? Weren't all of the original Jesus cult texts produced under the oversight of the Flavian Dynasty? Didn't the Flavian Dynasty posses the only remaining copy of the Tanakh other than the Septuagint? Weren't the canonical texts all back dated like the historical fiction of Gone With The Wind? Wasn't Emperor Vespasian known as the Jewish Messiah? Weren't the Flavian's descended from King Herod? There was no separation of Church and State in the Roman Empire. And Christianity is clearly a Greco-Roman hybrid form of Judaism created by the Flavian Dynasty as an attempt to adapt, pacify, and integrate the rebellious and defiant Jews into the rest of the Greco-Roman Empire. Then finally Neo-Flavian Constantine chose the Flavian family religion to be the official religion of the entire Roman Empire. In order to consolidate power in his fractured Empire.. And then Eusebius edited and rewrote the history of the previous 3OO years. It isn't history it is all simply Greco-Roman mythopoetic literature. Today it is known as Historical Fiction.💙
1 Timorhy wasnt written by Paul.
Well ya did it again !
How it is that this guy is more correct in the interpretation of
1 Tim 2:11-15
Is just Wild!
…. And, although he won’t like it, a testament to God’s grace toward men 😅🤷🏽
Paul’s pointing back to creation in vs 13&14 is exactly where Paul’s argument comes from. Has nothing to do with culture, sensibilities, etc…
Good job there👍
Still missing the truth, goodness, and beauty contained there, but yeah, nature of the channel so….
Adam was tasked with taking his authority outward to the rest of creation. Man’s authority is not primarily directed at and over women. The roles are that man is to have dominion under God on the earth and the woman is to fill what man provides with beauty as only a woman can. Her job is not less it’s just second. And the work of man is a difficult one and he is specifically built for it so why put women in that position on the frontline of leadership and even less why would they want to be in that position?
God’s created roles are a thing of beauty , work out beautifully and beautify all creation from the home to the ends of the earth when they are embraced and fulfilled.
And women do have authority over men in vs 15 they have the blessing, opportunity, and responsibility of raising future men and thus exercising authority over them and the future of humanity, again, when the roles are embraced and the goodness and beauty are realized and acted upon. Those children become young men and women then adult men who will understand their role and authority in Christ and thus use that authority to love a woman well and promote the “weaker vessel” as glorious and beautiful prize that she is (weaker as in a priceless vase that is to be taken care of and protected on account of its beauty). The women that are raised well will accept the authority of one man that tells the world that she is subject to no man outside of the one that cares for, provides, loves , and protects her.
Men are expendable women are not
They should be protected at all costs. The man is to be on the front lines (of the church too)…. Not the woman
This is a description of roles based on the created order and nothing else
Good job there and as usual not very good with the rest 🤣
Satan the Devil USES the Pastors and Leaders of all kinds of Religions
to trick and deceive all human beings to believe the LIES and false teachings and doctrines about
"hellfire", "afterlife", "immortality of the souls", "Trinity", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
that
insult, humiliate, and degrade the lives and dignities of human beings
and definitely bring and cause the dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS
of
Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions
GOD USES the BIBLE to reveal the TRUTHS
that
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" written in Luke 4: 43
will
definitely bring honor and the favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
NOT
to liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons
but
ONLY
to lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth
who
honor and obey Jesus Christ as their loving, kind, and merciful Master and Heavenly King in obedience to what's written in Matthew 28: 18
and
the teaching of Jesus Christ about the "Resurrection of the Dead" written in John 11: 25, 26
is also
NOT for liars, arrogant, merciless, and deceitful persons on earth
but
the guarantee
that
loving, kind, considerate, and respectful persons on earth
who
died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's Followers and disciples, and many others
will
all be RESURRECTED back to life in GOD's right and proper time so they can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of GOD and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his GOD and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Except its in contradiction with Paul's writing that is believed genuine, as well as Jesus. Timothy is someone's fanfiction.
No defense of christianity to say that these passages are almost certainly interpolations by romans. Paul is one of the only figures in ghe bible there is evidence for, and about four and a scooch of the epistles were almost certainly written by this weird guy. Those four and a bit contain multiple references to women as his primary spokespeople and messengers to churches. Again, i am not defending the rot of the settler colonial religion now known as christianity, i am just pointing to some confidently known textual stuff. best to all.
I get it 😂
Paul was upset about childless cat ladies 🤔
😂😂
He actually tacitly advised widows to remain single
@@MayDay-yn3bw widow is not synonymous with childless. In fact, it directly implies that they had been previously married, which also implies that they would have had children unless physically unable to do so (no birth control in the 1st century ).
Although I think that the OP was speaking a bit tongue-in-check, your comparison is in opposition to the point I think you are trying to make.
😂
@@robinette64 A widow is not synonymous with childless, but in 1 Timothy 5, Paul does equate having children with turning towards Satan (1 Timothy 5:15). Judges 11:26-40 (daughter of Jephthah) indicates that to turn towards Jesus is to never have children, which is picked up by Matthew 22:30 where Jesus says there will be no marriage in the resurrection.
Matthew 22:32, Jesus says that God is not a God of the dead but of the living, which feeds back into 1 Timothy 5:6 "But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth."
Don't misconstrue the acknowledgement of sin with the actual advice being given by Paul to take a vow of celibacy.
My wife is a total bully toward me because I'm retired and she still works! She considers herself a Christian! I would rather have her submit to me than have her demand for me to submit to her in total contradiction to what she claims to believe!
im fairly young and have only dated once but I think you should try and work abit to come to an understanding with your wife because being in a relationship isnt about being in the right but working with the person you love to have a better life and maybe if you are able to just get a short time job working afew days a week that would help your relationship
@@fishman2586 This is the two step dance these husbands play with their wives. step one is submit to me and step two is don't stop giving me the things your submission makes impossible to give
Being fairly young and possibly only knowing things like this from the internet, you may not realize this is a humble brag from an man who kindof likes, wink wink, those fiesty girls.
Not that a part time job or paying hobby isn't a good idea, its just that getting a job is getting another boss and if he can retire, he can do with out that aspect.
Just glossing over the fact that he is told in the bible to submit to his wife.
If either of you needs submission, you are not equal. I advise counseling if your irritation is real.
@@Badficwriter Do you have a bro or sis that is a goodficwriter? would I like their stuff? Agree with the counseling, if a cream or lub doesnt help with mutual submission.