I grew up skating in the early 90s so a lot of my formative years of learning tricks (especially flip tricks) were with really small wheels (much smaller than 50mm). I still have a preference for smaller wheels mainly because with smaller wheels the board angle with the ground is smaller when the tail hits the ground. If I ride 53+mm wheels I find sometimes my tail doesn’t hit the ground hard enough (or at all) to get a good pop on my trick. I also like low trucks for this as well. But yes, with smaller wheels you are very slow on rough surfaces so it’s not optimized for all terrain. Also, the smaller the wheel the easier it is to lock into nose/tail slides on curbs and ledges as your wheels are away from the vertical surface of the ledge more when locking in, however truck geometry helps too (Indy’s keep the wheels away from the ledge way more than thunders). But at the same time having bigger wheels helps lock into grinds better… always a balancing act. Depends on your preference, style, and trick selection.
Hi, a clarification on your model: Did you put the "extra weight of the eggs" in the center of the board as shown at 2:30 ? Or the eggs are shown just for visualization purposes and the weight is evenly distributed? In any case, the weight should be added away from the axis of rotation. In this way, even though it's a relatively small weight compared to the total weight of the board+trucks, it has a larger contribution to evaluating the moment of inertia.
Also, what should we consider to be "practically negligible" ? In the video, I guess there is at least a 10% difference in the speed of rotation between the slowest and the fastest one. I bet you could clearly notice the difference as you flip the board. Consider the difference between doing a double flip on a 8.25" or a 8.5". If you've ever tried, the difference is clear and the 8.5" should be roughly 60g heavier.
Thanks for the comment. Eggs are shown for visualization purpose only. The weight is distributed evenly. Otherwise 30kg board would stop spinning when it’s upside down.
@@whythetrick Exactly what I suspected. Anyway, congrats for the effort you are putting in the channel! Very informative content. I was looking for something like this for a while as I'm both a skater and a fellow researcher in physics I've been always curious to tackle down many of the misconception regarding "skateboarding physics" like you are doing. Keep up the good work, greetings from Italy.
@@whythetrickyou mean evenly distributed across the four wheels or across the entire skateboard? I believe heavier wheels would make the center of gravity and the axis of rotation to be slightly lower, so it wouldn't be the same as increasing the weight of the entire skateboard evenly.
all these slight differences add up. always crazy to think about how well our bodies detect the minute changes. especially in regard to the degradation of your setup. ie board losing pop. wheels wearing down. ect
I dont know about physics, but specifics do matter in my experience, although you will get used to anything and adjust via your muscles. just recently I found my goldilocks size deck, which is 8.5 with 32.6 length and 14.75 WB. coupled with a steep kick and thunder trucks, this is just great! if not the most surfy setup. I also have a deck equally as long but with a 15" WB. combined with the thunders, this deck was bad, the long wheelbase made the turn very stiff and the pop was also bad. however ace trucks with their short wheelbase balance out the decks long wheelbase nicely and make for a great setup. as for wheels, I got stuck with 54mm, which are generally nice, not too big and heavy, but big enough to survive the crust and not wear down below my comfort zone for wheel size (around 50mm) as quickly.
I always assumed and felt that smaller wheels helped with pop more than anything else. Bring a 90's skater when tiny wheels hit the scene it certainly seemed like ollies got easier.
When measuring flipping speed do not add the weight on the top of the board but on the trucks, where the wheels are. It is true that heavier objects spin slower however the spinning inertia is also effected by how far the additional mass is from the object’s center of gravity. If you put the additional weight on the center of mass, flipping the object will require less torque than when the additional weight is farther away from the center of mass. So probably the bigger wheels effect the flip more than your tests show us! Otherwise great video! Keep up the good work!
Bigger wheel means it takes more distance to pop, and your nose is slightly higher at catching point. Risers have the same affect. I think this is why smaller wheels have always been preferred by technical skaters, the board reacts to pop quicker. Same goes low trucks. I never thought flip would be affected, glad to see that confirmation.
Heavier wheels would also slightly change the center of gravity of the board to be lower and thus also cause the axis of the flip rotations to be slightly lower. Could that have any effect on the difficulty of flip tricks?
What does adding a riser pad between the board and truck do in terms of pop? Adding a riser pad makes the back of the board have to travel farther before the pop. Could you explain the effect of this and the ideal height for pop?
Regarding the flipping test, adding egg weights on the deck center line (and also near the center) is not exactly the same as having heavier wheels due to moment of inertia. The wheels are further away from the center line of the deck due to being mounted on the trucks, so they're located further away from the deck center in all 3 dimensions X, Y, and Z. Using 30 kg eggs, did the physics engine also calculate from the center of mass of the big eggs? If it did, then it has a more moment of inertia for sure because those big eggs are very tall, thus increasing the lever distance. However, for the rolling test, it doesn't really matter where the weight is.
citing prof Smith, the size of wheel affect how low the gravity center of the skateboard is. size of wheel may not ease flipping the board, but lowering the gravity center does affect how stable the landing is and thus ease to roll away from the trick
hey regarding your animation technique, do you animate each model individually? like do you use collision for the skate or do you animate everything separately?
In this video, I made a deck, trucks and wheels separately and joined them using rigid body constraint. That way, each model follows their physics rules individually.
Hi, wasn't shure how your model works. Did you take the effect of rotational inertia into account? It should make a different to flip if you put the additional weight to the outside of the board (to the wheels) compared to the center or compared to equally increased weight in the complete board. So - say if you put the egg(s) into the middle it should make less of a difference in flipping compared to putting egg(s) to the outside of the board. It also does make a difference how wide your trucks are as this changes the distance of the wheel mass to the center of the rotation. Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, just trying to understand. I was coding a skateboard physics model right when your channel started, thats why I am interested :-) Never finished my work.
As for me I want a wheel that dont catch a little stones and stuck. So I ride 56s but they stuck. As for the 58s-they feels much more bigger. Thst is my quest now
You added the mass of the eggs close to the center of rotation and not where the mass of the wheels actually is. The further away from the center of rotation the mass is, the more effect it has. This video shows a massive lack of understanding of physics and should probably just be deleted.
Спорт
I would be interested in a video explaining in extreme detail your setup and why (based on physics, presumably) you chose each component
I grew up skating in the early 90s so a lot of my formative years of learning tricks (especially flip tricks) were with really small wheels (much smaller than 50mm). I still have a preference for smaller wheels mainly because with smaller wheels the board angle with the ground is smaller when the tail hits the ground. If I ride 53+mm wheels I find sometimes my tail doesn’t hit the ground hard enough (or at all) to get a good pop on my trick. I also like low trucks for this as well. But yes, with smaller wheels you are very slow on rough surfaces so it’s not optimized for all terrain. Also, the smaller the wheel the easier it is to lock into nose/tail slides on curbs and ledges as your wheels are away from the vertical surface of the ledge more when locking in, however truck geometry helps too (Indy’s keep the wheels away from the ledge way more than thunders). But at the same time having bigger wheels helps lock into grinds better… always a balancing act. Depends on your preference, style, and trick selection.
Thank you for comments everyone. Just for clarification, eggs’ weights are distributed evenly. 3D models of eggs are for visualization purpose.
Hi, a clarification on your model:
Did you put the "extra weight of the eggs" in the center of the board as shown at 2:30 ?
Or the eggs are shown just for visualization purposes and the weight is evenly distributed?
In any case, the weight should be added away from the axis of rotation.
In this way, even though it's a relatively small weight compared to the total weight of the board+trucks, it has a larger contribution to evaluating the moment of inertia.
Also, what should we consider to be "practically negligible" ?
In the video, I guess there is at least a 10% difference in the speed of rotation between the slowest and the fastest one.
I bet you could clearly notice the difference as you flip the board.
Consider the difference between doing a double flip on a 8.25" or a 8.5".
If you've ever tried, the difference is clear and the 8.5" should be roughly 60g heavier.
Thanks for the comment. Eggs are shown for visualization purpose only. The weight is distributed evenly. Otherwise 30kg board would stop spinning when it’s upside down.
@@whythetrick Exactly what I suspected.
Anyway, congrats for the effort you are putting in the channel!
Very informative content.
I was looking for something like this for a while as I'm both a skater and a fellow researcher in physics I've been always curious to tackle down many of the misconception regarding "skateboarding physics" like you are doing.
Keep up the good work, greetings from Italy.
Thanks for clarification, that also threw me off.
@@whythetrickyou mean evenly distributed across the four wheels or across the entire skateboard?
I believe heavier wheels would make the center of gravity and the axis of rotation to be slightly lower, so it wouldn't be the same as increasing the weight of the entire skateboard evenly.
all these slight differences add up. always crazy to think about how well our bodies detect the minute changes. especially in regard to the degradation of your setup. ie board losing pop. wheels wearing down. ect
I dont know about physics, but specifics do matter in my experience, although you will get used to anything and adjust via your muscles.
just recently I found my goldilocks size deck, which is 8.5 with 32.6 length and 14.75 WB.
coupled with a steep kick and thunder trucks, this is just great! if not the most surfy setup.
I also have a deck equally as long but with a 15" WB.
combined with the thunders, this deck was bad, the long wheelbase made the turn very stiff and the pop was also bad.
however ace trucks with their short wheelbase balance out the decks long wheelbase nicely and make for a great setup.
as for wheels, I got stuck with 54mm, which are generally nice, not too big and heavy, but big enough to survive the crust and not wear down below my comfort zone for wheel size (around 50mm) as quickly.
I always assumed and felt that smaller wheels helped with pop more than anything else. Bring a 90's skater when tiny wheels hit the scene it certainly seemed like ollies got easier.
When measuring flipping speed do not add the weight on the top of the board but on the trucks, where the wheels are. It is true that heavier objects spin slower however the spinning inertia is also effected by how far the additional mass is from the object’s center of gravity. If you put the additional weight on the center of mass, flipping the object will require less torque than when the additional weight is farther away from the center of mass. So probably the bigger wheels effect the flip more than your tests show us!
Otherwise great video! Keep up the good work!
Bigger wheel means it takes more distance to pop, and your nose is slightly higher at catching point. Risers have the same affect. I think this is why smaller wheels have always been preferred by technical skaters, the board reacts to pop quicker. Same goes low trucks.
I never thought flip would be affected, glad to see that confirmation.
Bro no idea why but your channel is criminally underrated. so many good videos!
damn man, this channel is amazing!
The two egg kickflip looked more steez🥚🥚
Heavier wheels would also slightly change the center of gravity of the board to be lower and thus also cause the axis of the flip rotations to be slightly lower.
Could that have any effect on the difficulty of flip tricks?
What does adding a riser pad between the board and truck do in terms of pop? Adding a riser pad makes the back of the board have to travel farther before the pop. Could you explain the effect of this and the ideal height for pop?
Interesting. Let’s see…
That was pretty interesting ^^
Regarding the flipping test, adding egg weights on the deck center line (and also near the center) is not exactly the same as having heavier wheels due to moment of inertia. The wheels are further away from the center line of the deck due to being mounted on the trucks, so they're located further away from the deck center in all 3 dimensions X, Y, and Z. Using 30 kg eggs, did the physics engine also calculate from the center of mass of the big eggs? If it did, then it has a more moment of inertia for sure because those big eggs are very tall, thus increasing the lever distance.
However, for the rolling test, it doesn't really matter where the weight is.
citing prof Smith, the size of wheel affect how low the gravity center of the skateboard is. size of wheel may not ease flipping the board, but lowering the gravity center does affect how stable the landing is and thus ease to roll away from the trick
could you please make a video about pebbles? i really want to know why!
hey regarding your animation technique, do you animate each model individually? like do you use collision for the skate or do you animate everything separately?
In this video, I made a deck, trucks and wheels separately and joined them using rigid body constraint. That way, each model follows their physics rules individually.
Hi, wasn't shure how your model works.
Did you take the effect of rotational inertia into account? It should make a different to flip if you put the additional weight to the outside of the board (to the wheels) compared to the center or compared to equally increased weight in the complete board. So - say if you put the egg(s) into the middle it should make less of a difference in flipping compared to putting egg(s) to the outside of the board.
It also does make a difference how wide your trucks are as this changes the distance of the wheel mass to the center of the rotation.
Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, just trying to understand. I was coding a skateboard physics model right when your channel started, thats why I am interested :-) Never finished my work.
Think you'll finish?
As for me I want a wheel that dont catch a little stones and stuck. So I ride 56s but they stuck. As for the 58s-they feels much more bigger. Thst is my quest now
🔥
You added the mass of the eggs close to the center of rotation and not where the mass of the wheels actually is. The further away from the center of rotation the mass is, the more effect it has.
This video shows a massive lack of understanding of physics and should probably just be deleted.