✅ Check out this video next on whether anything's really wrong with pleasure: ruclips.net/video/TfQyjLR1bvo/видео.html 🧡 Consider joining us on Patreon if you find benefit in these videos, and get fun extras like exclusive behind-the-scenes videos, audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
About the mentioned Buddha's advice to have pleasure, he actually criticized lay people who don't enjoy life. In the Dighajanu Sutta the Buddha gives four ways in which one should pursue happiness in this life: 1 Pursue gain through honest work, 2 Preserve what you gained against thieves, natural disasters, undeserving heirs, etc, 3 Be friends with good people. 4 Have a balanced living - don't spend beyond your means, but also don't be too frugal. In the Rasiya Sutta the Buddha says a lay person should be a pursuer of pleasure and gain (/wealth) in four ways 1 Not commit evil deeds in those pursuits, 2 Make oneself happy, 3 Share with others, make other happy, and 4 Enjoy things in a non-attached way. And actually says a lay person is to be criticized if he fails to do any of these, specifically mentioning the example of a person who doesn't commit evil deeds in his pursuits, and shares with others makes other happy, but doesn't himself enjoys life, he is to be praised on the first two counts, but criticized on that third one. Though of course, the Buddha denounced greed in many places as immoral.
Rapidly becoming a huge fan of your channel. Such quality content that I can listen to as I go about my day without having to sit down and stare at my screen. Thanks Doug!
Thank you for these insightful video essays, they are very helpful and thought-provoking. There is a certain self-righteousness I've observed in people who claim to be minimalists, so it's good to point out it's just another form of pleasure (though it does have other benefits too, e.g. less ecological destruction). Good to put a warning flag on what could be another form of "spiritual materialism".
Very interesting topic! I especially like how you took the middle way yourself by pointing out the dangers of avoidance and becoming attached to “minimalist pleasures” as counterparts to the maximalist lifestyle. But do you think it makes sense to say that the Buddhist path is, in a way, a pursuit of the ultimate kind of unworldly pleasure? As the Dhammapada says, arahants dwell in “the passion-free delight, not seeking sensual pleasures.”
Yes, for sure it's described that way. But this "pleasure" is a bit paradoxical since it's essentially the pleasure of non-pleasure/non-pain, or of a deep equanimity.
I always took it as a rejection of the pleasures that weren’t “worldly” the pleasure I get from a walk in nature instead of going for the video game or tv for ex. The pleasures that one gets that don’t come from the material things humans make and choosing instead pleasures that can be found by going out and being in the world.
When you hear Alan Watts talk about his experience in zen temples in china and japan he would talk about monks having hangovers and multiple wifes, some smoking, etc. Now it's debatable how strictly they approached their doctrines or if we have the right idea about all of this. But it's a good idea to build up some deep meditation experience, as in retreats, and look at how people like the dalai lama conduct themselves. We need to understand what the foundation of their strategy is; avoiding sensation and replacing it with deep meditative experiences, discipline and quiet resignation or simply through training transcending the want for these pleasures. I'd say it's not necessarily avoiding everything, but cutting out the excess. The way I can best describe it is cultivating non attachment. But a lot of these things for me boil down to a "common sense" philosophy that naturally springs up in people's life. We know that being addicted sucks, but there are people who can use pe alcohol in moderation. Also, community and friendship are a big part of buddhism and stoicism, so what about the pleasure from being attached to individuals? It's about excess attachment and having a stable core lifestyle and philosophy that isn't as flimsy as fame, fortune or substance abuse.
@Bernard de Fontaines that's not how such a life is. They have community, meditation, friendship, etc. Look up yongey mingyur rinpoche, he doesn't seem too miserable!
The Visuddhimagga differentiates various character types. For example a Monk who inclines towards hatred is advised to eat good Food, have a nice robe and dwelling place to counter his hatred with "lovely" things. For the greedy character type the opposite is recommended.
I haven't. The Buddha said that monastics were to avoid music and dance, but he really didn't say anything about laypeople and music. I think he considered it part of sense pleasure.
✅ Check out this video next on whether anything's really wrong with pleasure: ruclips.net/video/TfQyjLR1bvo/видео.html
🧡 Consider joining us on Patreon if you find benefit in these videos, and get fun extras like exclusive behind-the-scenes videos, audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
Forgot I came to say “happy to see a new video, thanks!”
Thanks Chris, I'll be coming out with more, no worries! 😀
About the mentioned Buddha's advice to have pleasure, he actually criticized lay people who don't enjoy life.
In the Dighajanu Sutta the Buddha gives four ways in which one should pursue happiness in this life: 1 Pursue gain through honest work, 2 Preserve what you gained against thieves, natural disasters, undeserving heirs, etc, 3 Be friends with good people. 4 Have a balanced living - don't spend beyond your means, but also don't be too frugal.
In the Rasiya Sutta the Buddha says a lay person should be a pursuer of pleasure and gain (/wealth) in four ways 1 Not commit evil deeds in those pursuits, 2 Make oneself happy, 3 Share with others, make other happy, and 4 Enjoy things in a non-attached way. And actually says a lay person is to be criticized if he fails to do any of these, specifically mentioning the example of a person who doesn't commit evil deeds in his pursuits, and shares with others makes other happy, but doesn't himself enjoys life, he is to be praised on the first two counts, but criticized on that third one.
Though of course, the Buddha denounced greed in many places as immoral.
Wow. I never came across this aspect of Buddhism. Thanks for sharing
Yes, indeed I have an entire course on this over at the Online Dharma Institute: onlinedharma.org/p/work-money-pleasure
Thank you Doug for your fresh and accessible explanation of the Dhamma 🙏🏻
You're very welcome David, thanks for the comment! 🙏
hey doug you're carrying me through my religious studies a level (16-18 UK) !! thank you so much - you put concepts in a way i understand
😄 Glad to hear it Mollzayy! Feel free to recommend the videos to others or share them!
Rapidly becoming a huge fan of your channel. Such quality content that I can listen to as I go about my day without having to sit down and stare at my screen. Thanks Doug!
You're very welcome Henry, very kind of you to say.
A very thorough and considered analysis, thanks Doug.
You're very welcome Tormunn, glad it was helpful!
Very insightful Doug. Thanks
You're very welcome Arun. 🙏
Thank you for these insightful video essays, they are very helpful and thought-provoking. There is a certain self-righteousness I've observed in people who claim to be minimalists, so it's good to point out it's just another form of pleasure (though it does have other benefits too, e.g. less ecological destruction). Good to put a warning flag on what could be another form of "spiritual materialism".
True! To be fair though one can find self-righteous Buddhists too ... 🙂
Very interesting topic! I especially like how you took the middle way yourself by pointing out the dangers of avoidance and becoming attached to “minimalist pleasures” as counterparts to the maximalist lifestyle. But do you think it makes sense to say that the Buddhist path is, in a way, a pursuit of the ultimate kind of unworldly pleasure? As the Dhammapada says, arahants dwell in “the passion-free delight, not seeking sensual pleasures.”
Yes, for sure it's described that way. But this "pleasure" is a bit paradoxical since it's essentially the pleasure of non-pleasure/non-pain, or of a deep equanimity.
I always took it as a rejection of the pleasures that weren’t “worldly” the pleasure I get from a walk in nature instead of going for the video game or tv for ex. The pleasures that one gets that don’t come from the material things humans make and choosing instead pleasures that can be found by going out and being in the world.
Yes I do think that's part of it, though strictly speaking the pleasures of nature are also sense pleasures, at least in large part.
When you hear Alan Watts talk about his experience in zen temples in china and japan he would talk about monks having hangovers and multiple wifes, some smoking, etc. Now it's debatable how strictly they approached their doctrines or if we have the right idea about all of this. But it's a good idea to build up some deep meditation experience, as in retreats, and look at how people like the dalai lama conduct themselves. We need to understand what the foundation of their strategy is; avoiding sensation and replacing it with deep meditative experiences, discipline and quiet resignation or simply through training transcending the want for these pleasures. I'd say it's not necessarily avoiding everything, but cutting out the excess. The way I can best describe it is cultivating non attachment. But a lot of these things for me boil down to a "common sense" philosophy that naturally springs up in people's life. We know that being addicted sucks, but there are people who can use pe alcohol in moderation. Also, community and friendship are a big part of buddhism and stoicism, so what about the pleasure from being attached to individuals? It's about excess attachment and having a stable core lifestyle and philosophy that isn't as flimsy as fame, fortune or substance abuse.
@Bernard de Fontaines that's not how such a life is. They have community, meditation, friendship, etc. Look up yongey mingyur rinpoche, he doesn't seem too miserable!
The Visuddhimagga differentiates various character types. For example a Monk who inclines towards hatred is advised to eat good Food, have a nice robe and dwelling place to counter his hatred with "lovely" things.
For the greedy character type the opposite is recommended.
Interesting, thanks pamokkha. There's a lot of interesting material in the Visuddhimagga.
Thanks again, Doug! Have you made any videos on Early Buddhist views on music? 🙏☀️
I haven't. The Buddha said that monastics were to avoid music and dance, but he really didn't say anything about laypeople and music. I think he considered it part of sense pleasure.
@@DougsDharma I figured 😅 Thanks again for the great content!