Turbo cracked for sure. Crack opening up under 13:10 extreme heat. Had it myself on a customers. Identical to your problem by the sound of it guys. Have a great weekend. Cheers, Craig. 👍🏼🙂
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 turbos are lubricated with oil from the main gallery under pressure - if the front seal on the compressor side of the turbo housing lets go or there is a crack in the compressor side of the housing oil will be pumped in to the compressor side and into the engine through the inlet manifold - if that's been checked and and the seals and housing are ok no issues - that eliminates that but why is there oil in the inlet ? how is it getting into the manifold? the only way that can happen is if its rings are totally stuffed and there is a flow reversal but if that's the case how did it pass a leak down test? the scrapper rings are not the only way oil can be getting onto the pistons - there are 2 groups of possibilities, it's coming down from the head side (turbo/head gasket/valves and/or guides) or its coming up from the bottom - excess oil from squirters/crank clearances or splash - however oil in the inlet manifold points to turbo housing or seals on the compressor side of the drive spindle or oil getting into manifold through the breather system Lee you should look up confirmation bias - an independent expert opinion might show something you had not thought of how much boost are you running? i cant give you a definitive answer BUT things to think about if the scrappers cant cope that suggests they have lost tension or arent engaging with the cylinder wall - back to the boost question are the cylinder walls flexing under boost - how thick are the cylinder walls ? (one of the machine shops i have used ultrasonic test each block before boring for wall thickness otherwise dont ask them to bore it - they look for core shift - porosity - corrosion) but i would have thought this would show up on the pistons first time round but ARE THE SCRAPER RING GROVES TOO DEEP? ie are the rings actually engaging the cylinder wall? A leak down test is a static test - it does not test what is happening on boost but it does suggest the bores are sealing in the off boost condition which also suggests that the cylinders are reasonably round - round enough to seal - if the cylinders are round and in spec the scrappers should work BUT piston ring groves? see above. If the pistons and cylinders are both in spec and the rings are new the problem is probably elsewhere... Have you checked the crank case pressure? is it positive or negative if, its positive how high is it? if its positive why is it positive - if the crank case is pressurising the oil has to go somewhere - is it bleeding into the intake? How much oil pressure is at the delivery point on the turbo? how much is there when the engine is running full boost ? is there sufficient pressure to bypass the front seals ? is it a combination of insufficient scrapper ring engagement and excess oil on the cylinder wall? or just too much oil coming up from the bottom? top end - valves/guides - on boost both sides (in and ex) are pressurised - worn inlet guides will bleed pressure into the valve cover/crank case on boost - is the crank case pressurising and force feeding the oil pump? ie is there excess oil being pushed into the system? related - are there oil squirters for piston cooling? what size is the squirter orifice? is this putting excess oil into the bore so that the scrapers cant cope? on the ex side i would have thought that the ex stroke would carry oil away from the cylinder - if guides are suspect check inlet first mic up the valves and guides gasket - how much boost are you running? is the head lifting? is there evidence that oil is getting between the head and the gasket or the gasket and the block? how much has been machined off the head? is there sufficient thread on the studs to compress the gasket and keep it compressed on full boost? in other words are the nuts torquing up with the gasket fully compressed or are the nuts just bottoming out on the thread just before the gasket is fully compressed (a series are bad for this too much of the head and the stock length studs are just a bit to long) One thing i have seen and its off the planet - oil level - a bright spark customer destroyed his dip stick went to the breakers and got a 'new' one problem he did not realise that it was for the same family of engines but NOT the sump in his car result was 5 litres of oil in the engine not 4 he wanted to know why the engine was clunking some times ...
Motor checks out fine breather system checks out fine had two turbo cores I,d be checking out turbo oil rtn if restricted will pass oil through seals especially on boost and higher rev ranges
Ive had 2 decompression disectomys on my lower spine L5 L6. My advice is exercise to strengthen your trunk muscles. Once you have surgery your weakened for life.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Instead of removing one of the stays on the strengthening, make it a bespoke plate, so it meets several mounting points, a strong as two bars. Less conspicuous also. Thanks for the videos Lee nice work. Cheers. Look at Guy Martins van he raced at Nuremberg, a leaky turbo set the thing alight, (although it was a oil fee cable that came off it shows the pressure and volume of oil causing problems).
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 It is possible for oil to be sucked through the compressor side of the turbo and into the engine. Particularly at high boosts and temperatures. Besides other checks already suggested. I would check the air intake system into the turbo. Excessive filtration, kinked or partially blocked pipe can cause this 'vacuum' within the compressor housing.
Turbo oiling issue: Most likely the turbo is over oiling, or has a failed seal, and is blowing oil into the engine. Worn turbo seals or oil return pipes can leak oil, which results in excessive oil consumption. If the internal seals of the turbo are bad and oil is leaking into the intake/compression side of the turbo, then that oil can feed into the engine, causing smoke, excessive oil consumption, and other problems. A smoking exhaust - If the turbo housing has cracked, or the internal seals have blown, oil will start to leak into your exhaust system. As this burns off, it produces a distinctive blue/grey smoke, which will probably become more apparent as the engine revs increase just following an idle situation.
Definitely sounds turbo to me. Oil pressure at turbo, might need to run a restrictor if it’s got high pressure pump, or return to small, if running external breather now cannot be that.
I would take the intercooler of the Cossie that is burning oil, and turn it on it's side. If more then a very small amount of oil comes out, the turbo is probably the problem. If it's almost dry, it's probably something on the intake, like pcv etc. If it's a front mount, some oil will always collect there. But it should be a miniscule amount if the turbo is healthy, in my experience. A dead turbo will fill it up in no time tough... Not a way to 100% diagnose it, but it will give a very good indication.
@KY13_WHO That's interesting... Sounds almost too clean. Is the WOT pcv still routed in before the turbo in the intake tract, or is it using just a catch can or similar ? But anyway, In that case I would measure the pressure/vacuum in the crankcase, both on idle and on boost. It should be very low. If it's more then 0,5 bar positive under boost, but normal on idle, something is probably letting boost pressure in there (pcv, or cracked head intake runner maybe?). That will cause oil to go alot of places it's not meant to be... Best idea I can come up with if the intake is dry.. On a side note, bad valveseals and worn valvestemguides make more smoke under vacuum then under boost normally. Unless they are completely ruined and letting all the boost pass, in which case it would be obvious just by looking at them.. The normal failure mode for them is for example, going down a long hill with the throttle closed. When you open it again you get smoke for a short while, then it clears. I have an engine like that 😅 but mine is not bad enough to warrant fixing it yet...
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
If the air-intake is oily than that is probably where the cause of the smoking is… Like you said Lee: there is the turbo and there is the breather, only if piston/bore clearance is not ok the block itself can be a cause by breathing too much through the breather…. If there is connection to a vacuum brakeservo than look at that one just to be sure.. Otherwise there is no possible cause!! Love your channel, keep it up, be good. Greetings, Henk.
If your customer has put a fully synthetic oil in from day one then this will cause it to oil wash the piston crowns and use an excessive amount of oil, Most engines should be run in on a light weight multigrade oil for its first 500 miles then a oil and filter change can be done and a good synthetic can be used.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Another interesting video, nice to see ‘Mr Robinson’s’ book on prominent display 🤗 perhaps it would make a great anniversary present for your wife 😂. Have a great birthday 🎂 and anniversary day and hope your back gets better soon 🙏🏻. All the best Isaac with progress on your car. Bob M. South Wales
I never had a bad back until August a year ago. Spent a few hours bending over the engine of my 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GT2 fighting with an evap purge can emissions valve. Right on top next to the throttle body. Got the electrical connector off easy but the vacuum line has a connector I've never seen before. Clamp-ring thing. Tried squeezing it picking it open, nothing. Service manual doesn't go into detail. So next morning I felt like I'd been hit in the back with a sledgehammer. could barely move. It's been a slow recovery, what with PT and all, still not back (no pun intended) to "normal". At 65 things don't heal as fast as they used to...
I don’t care. if that is the only turbo the cars run with test a new one to completely eliminate that variable considering it happens on boost that would be the first thing you would do no
@@robertdoyle4098 you seem to know what your talking about so Should I bring the car you the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Lee, TURBO OIL FEED REDUCER. Is it the correct diameter ? Has it got one fitted? People used to drill them out and that caused oil to pass in the turbo. Can you get pictures of the breather set up?
Lee, your hands are a bit tied until you can run the engine in the car, I have diagnosed more outside issues with engines that way than I have by taking them apart, I'm guessing there is nothing wrong with the basic engine lump, your work is top notch, its the bits bolted to it is probably causing the problem like the turbo or the crankcase breather system, eliminate them or change them to narrow it down. Regarding new turbo cores any I rebuild now for customers I have to make new PB1 bronze bushes for them, the bushing metal used in modern cores is shit, seems to be some sort of brass that doesn't last much longer than half an hours running.
A bit like you I do "Repairs" usually due to my repair the item is returned running far better than when made, So if there is ever a problem nine times out of ten its the "Customer", where as they just used and abused it in the past they seem to change their tune since spending a bit of money on maintenance and they now actually "Look" for any minor issues, so when items get returned and I treat it as it should be treated my thorough tests usually return either no or negligible faults. Shame they can't do a Turbo delete for a week or so.
The Cossie burning oil should not be the turbo. The compressor and turbine housing have nothing to do with oil. With putting a replacement cartridge in, I can not see that being a problem. The one thing that may be a problem, is there a restrictor fitting in the oil inlet to the turbo cartridge. Without one the cartridge gets flooded with oil and the seal can not hold it back. When the cartridge was rebuilt, was the oil slinger omitted?
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
If that cosworth is on the standard breather system, then check the breather non return valves on the inlet manifold. If they stay open or are sticking open, symptoms will be exactly as he has stated. If you are positive, the breather is 100% spot on, then check the drain pipe from the turbo and inside the turbo, that it not blocked or restricted, check the turbo oil supply jet to the turbo is the correct size jet.
Subaru: Have you found the leak in the Subbie exhaust manifold? PE when you blokes mention " going up to see Bob" does that mean that you are going north of your current location, or going south to a larger town?
Positive crankcase ventilation check valve on the Cosworth sounds like it's bad. Another fix could be adding an oil separation catchcan to the PCV system.
The oil issue 100% is caused by crank case pressure. What causes what is described is boost being forced into the oil pan. Yes a broken ring can cause some oil up to the intake but on a new build I would put money that there is no check valve or a broken check valve in the breather system
With the Cosworth I would suspect the turbo housing. Maybe needs a drive with some of the breathers disconnected. Oil in the inlet manifold points to the turbo, is the intercooler oily?
Pcv a possibility? Bad check valve or may in backward? Turbo seals or Hair line cracks in turbo exhaust housing on turbo it self . I know the turbo on 1.4 t cruze here in usa the housing on hot side crack . Just a thought.
Remove the turbo and run it a while. If it still uses oil, then it's something in the motor. If not then it's boost related and look at all the parts that handle boost.
Great video, if everything you done on the engine was fine when you checked it then it has to be something external to the engine like the turbo!!! If he insists then get him to get an engineer to be with you when you strip it again and if it's all ok then he has to pay you for both times you have taken it apart. Have a great weekend.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
mate I've had a bad back for over 20 years, i feel your pain. when my back goes out it's like someone has stabbed me in the back and knocks me to my knees.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ? Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Has the turbo oil suply been modified? may need a restrictor? also check drain back into block as ive had one semi blocked with the same symptoms,the oil couldnt get into the sump and went through into the air stream
Is the cossie guy using a catch can for the breathers?.... if not get him to run it with them blocked off on the inlet end and see if that stops the smoking....
You need to get some cold press for your back mine are reusable stick them in the freezer and they work a treat Put them on your back when you sit down jobs a goodun
Take the breather pipe to a catch can then vent that to atmosphere, if the can stays dry and it still burns oil it's not the breather. Manually pressurise the oil feed to the turbo core and see if oil comes out, pressure test the oil going into the turbo core, if the pressure exceeds the ability to drain back it'll coat the back of the impellor and burn oil, they often have restrictors to not overload the turbo but they also need to not restrict the oil out port, check the return pipe and the block hole and gaskets, the turbo might be ok and it might be the return line not letting the oil out. If the intake manifold gets oil in it with the breather off it's got to be the turbo but the turbo will be oiled up in the boost side of the turbo as well as the intake manifold.
I am sure that you have checked the long block every-which-way-to-sunday. Openly vent the crankcase overboard (catch can). With all of the Cosworths you do, don't you have a known-good spare turbo you could loan out? The one thing I know from watching this site is that Barum Engines is both knoledgeabke and meticulous. It ain't you.
"don't you have a known-good spare turbo you could loan out?" Not a good idea. The customer has to sort this issue out themselves, as it sounds like their turbo or breather set up is wonky.
Have you considered getting the car up to you, along with the customer and fitting a borrowed or bought known good turbo and then test the car. If it cures the fault, the customer pays for it, or at least the labour if its borrowed, if it doesn't, you've at least eliminated the part of the car that ISN'T your problem...? Just a thought....
@@ataxpayer723 I've just retired from the motor trade. You say that issue is clearly oil coming into the inlet and once you've eliminated all other inlet sources, it has to be the turbo...So I thought it would be a good way to demonstrate your commitment to fairness AND reinforce your engine building expertise. Hope it all resolves to everyone's satisfaction and you get the credit you are due, I have an 1159 Blydenstein Viva engine to refresh, so.. later!
Hi Lee Might be worth looking into a high ratio steering rack as some of those BMW racks are pretty slow, it will make the car much easier to catch slides and be more enjoyable 👍
You only have warranty responsibility for the work you have done and the parts that you have fitted. As you said , if he thinks he has a case and you don't, the only solution is to get a verified, qualified independant party to check the work. This authority has to be agreed to by both parties and must be independant. If the claiment is proven to be right then you would have to pay all of the costs involved. If you were proven to be right then the claiment would have to pay all of the costs. If neither party can agree to any imposed terms for settlement then court litigation will be the only way forward. I really can't see any long term solution to these sort of problems other than bench testing the engine before returning it to the customer with a printout of the bench tested results and the test conditions. This of course would be costly in both time and money and still wouldn't guarantee customer satisfaction when the engine is run with components that were not inspected, fitted and tested by your workshop. I'm sure that your warranty conditions explain all of this and in all honesty if someone brought a case like this to court against a manufacturer they wouldn't stand a chance. If you bought a car from a manufacturer without a turbo, then fitted a turbo to the engine, during the warranty period, resulting in engine failure, that is your problem , not theirs.
Engine is rebuilt then removed dismantled and checked, seems strange to blame engine when turbo and breather have not been checked or replaced, just my view but i have would been looking and testing every thing else before the engine and if the customer reads this my advice would be dont start pulling the head off its already been checked after it was rebuilt if you can not find the issue then get help from some one better qualified.
I am reading this the thing is it’s had a turbo then lee said it could possibly be the turbo so I went and got a new turbos from turbo performance not no cheap crap when there was nothing wrong with the old one how just to eliminate that I got a new one then said it could possibly be the breather so disconnected that from the inlet still doing it then I have taken it to pj motorsports as me and lew discussed for them to check it as I’m only 100 miles from them and he’s come to the conclusion it could be the guides / head related so the next step would be to remove this the pistons are absolutely soaking with oil How many new turbos dose it need Lee sent my original turbo to turbo performance for them to check come back fine then the week later I fitted a new one so I think we can rule out the turbo
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 Interesting, try to check where the oil is coming, look inside pipe from turbo, if it where a pistion/ring issue then inlet track would not be wet, similar if head issue there would be some oil around valves but none leading to head, better spending move time checking issue than guessing and replacing?
Turbo cracked for sure. Crack opening up under 13:10 extreme heat. Had it myself on a customers. Identical to your problem by the sound of it guys. Have a great weekend. Cheers, Craig. 👍🏼🙂
basically if its passed a leak down test its external to the block - crack test the turbo housing
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 turbos are lubricated with oil from the main gallery under pressure - if the front seal on the compressor side of the turbo housing lets go or there is a crack in the compressor side of the housing oil will be pumped in to the compressor side and into the engine through the inlet manifold - if that's been checked and and the seals and housing are ok no issues - that eliminates that but why is there oil in the inlet ? how is it getting into the manifold? the only way that can happen is if its rings are totally stuffed and there is a flow reversal but if that's the case how did it pass a leak down test?
the scrapper rings are not the only way oil can be getting onto the pistons - there are 2 groups of possibilities, it's coming down from the head side (turbo/head gasket/valves and/or guides) or its coming up from the bottom - excess oil from squirters/crank clearances or splash - however oil in the inlet manifold points to turbo housing or seals on the compressor side of the drive spindle or oil getting into manifold through the breather system
Lee you should look up confirmation bias - an independent expert opinion might show something you had not thought of
how much boost are you running?
i cant give you a definitive answer BUT things to think about
if the scrappers cant cope that suggests they have lost tension or arent engaging with the cylinder wall - back to the boost question are the cylinder walls flexing under boost - how thick are the cylinder walls ? (one of the machine shops i have used ultrasonic test each block before boring for wall thickness otherwise dont ask them to bore it - they look for core shift - porosity - corrosion) but i would have thought this would show up on the pistons first time round but ARE THE SCRAPER RING GROVES TOO DEEP? ie are the rings actually engaging the cylinder wall?
A leak down test is a static test - it does not test what is happening on boost but it does suggest the bores are sealing in the off boost condition which also suggests that the cylinders are reasonably round - round enough to seal - if the cylinders are round and in spec the scrappers should work BUT piston ring groves? see above. If the pistons and cylinders are both in spec and the rings are new the problem is probably elsewhere...
Have you checked the crank case pressure? is it positive or negative if, its positive how high is it? if its positive why is it positive - if the crank case is pressurising the oil has to go somewhere - is it bleeding into the intake?
How much oil pressure is at the delivery point on the turbo? how much is there when the engine is running full boost ? is there sufficient pressure to bypass the front seals ?
is it a combination of insufficient scrapper ring engagement and excess oil on the cylinder wall? or just too much oil coming up from the bottom?
top end - valves/guides - on boost both sides (in and ex) are pressurised - worn inlet guides will bleed pressure into the valve cover/crank case on boost - is the crank case pressurising and force feeding the oil pump? ie is there excess oil being pushed into the system? related - are there oil squirters for piston cooling? what size is the squirter orifice? is this putting excess oil into the bore so that the scrapers cant cope? on the ex side i would have thought that the ex stroke would carry oil away from the cylinder - if guides are suspect check inlet first mic up the valves and guides
gasket - how much boost are you running? is the head lifting? is there evidence that oil is getting between the head and the gasket or the gasket and the block? how much has been machined off the head? is there sufficient thread on the studs to compress the gasket and keep it compressed on full boost? in other words are the nuts torquing up with the gasket fully compressed or are the nuts just bottoming out on the thread just before the gasket is fully compressed (a series are bad for this too much of the head and the stock length studs are just a bit to long)
One thing i have seen and its off the planet - oil level - a bright spark customer destroyed his dip stick went to the breakers and got a 'new' one problem he did not realise that it was for the same family of engines but NOT the sump in his car result was 5 litres of oil in the engine not 4 he wanted to know why the engine was clunking some times ...
Motor checks out fine breather system checks out fine had two turbo cores I,d be checking out turbo oil rtn if restricted will pass oil through seals especially on boost and higher rev ranges
Ive had 2 decompression disectomys on my lower spine L5 L6. My advice is exercise to strengthen your trunk muscles. Once you have surgery your weakened for life.
Cheers Lee, it’s all conjecture until you have the Engine in front of you and you run it, check it, test it, smell it and taste it.
good argument for a dyno test
When you are satisfied your work on the engine is good, its to him to diagnose the problem.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
So good to Isaac doing so well
Thankyou!
Instead of removing one of the stays on the strengthening, make it a bespoke plate, so it meets several mounting points, a strong as two bars. Less conspicuous also. Thanks for the videos Lee nice work. Cheers. Look at Guy Martins van he raced at Nuremberg, a leaky turbo set the thing alight, (although it was a oil fee cable that came off it shows the pressure and volume of oil causing problems).
Look forward to seeing Isaacs tuning video
I laughed out loud when you come back and the e30 is not stolen and isac says ideal. So funny maybe just me
Happy birthday and anniversary.
If the bloke is into Cossies in a big way wouldn’t the easiest way to narrow down the problem would be borrow a turbo and see if that cures it?
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 It is possible for oil to be sucked through the compressor side of the turbo and into the engine. Particularly at high boosts and temperatures. Besides other checks already suggested. I would check the air intake system into the turbo. Excessive filtration, kinked or partially blocked pipe can cause this 'vacuum' within the compressor housing.
Turbo oiling issue: Most likely the turbo is over oiling, or has a failed seal, and is blowing oil into the engine. Worn turbo seals or oil return pipes can leak oil, which results in excessive oil consumption. If the internal seals of the turbo are bad and oil is leaking into the intake/compression side of the turbo, then that oil can feed into the engine, causing smoke, excessive oil consumption, and other problems.
A smoking exhaust - If the turbo housing has cracked, or the internal seals have blown, oil will start to leak into your exhaust system. As this burns off, it produces a distinctive blue/grey smoke, which will probably become more apparent as the engine revs increase just following an idle situation.
Definitely sounds turbo to me.
Oil pressure at turbo, might need to run a restrictor if it’s got high pressure pump, or return to small, if running external breather now cannot be that.
I would take the intercooler of the Cossie that is burning oil, and turn it on it's side. If more then a very small amount of oil comes out, the turbo is probably the problem. If it's almost dry, it's probably something on the intake, like pcv etc.
If it's a front mount, some oil will always collect there. But it should be a miniscule amount if the turbo is healthy, in my experience. A dead turbo will fill it up in no time tough...
Not a way to 100% diagnose it, but it will give a very good indication.
@@TheJackman88 absolutely 0 oil init, the pipes are nice and clean throttle bodies bone dry
@KY13_WHO That's interesting... Sounds almost too clean. Is the WOT pcv still routed in before the turbo in the intake tract, or is it using just a catch can or similar ?
But anyway, In that case I would measure the pressure/vacuum in the crankcase, both on idle and on boost. It should be very low. If it's more then 0,5 bar positive under boost, but normal on idle, something is probably letting boost pressure in there (pcv, or cracked head intake runner maybe?). That will cause oil to go alot of places it's not meant to be... Best idea I can come up with if the intake is dry..
On a side note, bad valveseals and worn valvestemguides make more smoke under vacuum then under boost normally. Unless they are completely ruined and letting all the boost pass, in which case it would be obvious just by looking at them.. The normal failure mode for them is for example, going down a long hill with the throttle closed. When you open it again you get smoke for a short while, then it clears. I have an engine like that 😅 but mine is not bad enough to warrant fixing it yet...
Great video 👍 Cossie set up a vacuum gauge and check for pressures 😊
Lee you could use the bit of tube from the roll cage to start a collection for your Zimmer frame.
Needs the turbo professionally checked and rebuild.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Hiya lee, would you thank John for his guided tour of your business. Hope you enjoyed the Jaffa cakes. Pete
It's got to be the turbo on that cossie.
He needs to get it built properly instead of bodging it together himself.
@@dave.harmon turbo performance has checked it that’s where Lee sent comes back fine no bodging round here bud
If the air-intake is oily than that is probably where the cause of the smoking is…
Like you said Lee: there is the turbo and there is the breather, only if piston/bore clearance is not ok the block itself can be a cause by breathing too much through the breather….
If there is connection to a vacuum brakeservo than look at that one just to be sure..
Otherwise there is no possible cause!!
Love your channel, keep it up, be good.
Greetings, Henk.
With the oil-burning Cosworth, proof will come with replaceing the turbo completely... to see if it still does the same thing.
If your customer has put a fully synthetic oil in from day one then this will cause it to oil wash the piston crowns and use an excessive amount of oil,
Most engines should be run in on a light weight multigrade oil for its first 500 miles then a oil and filter change can be done and a good synthetic can be used.
Turbo could need a oil restricter that's cause oil consumption and smoke
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Some turbos need a oil restrictor
Another interesting video, nice to see ‘Mr Robinson’s’ book on prominent display 🤗 perhaps it would make a great anniversary present for your wife 😂. Have a great birthday 🎂 and anniversary day and hope your back gets better soon 🙏🏻. All the best Isaac with progress on your car. Bob M. South Wales
Sounds like a change of turbo to eliminate that as a fault? I am purely going by your comments. Good luck.
I never had a bad back until August a year ago. Spent a few hours bending over the engine of my 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix GT2 fighting with an evap purge can emissions valve. Right on top next to the throttle body. Got the electrical connector off easy but the vacuum line has a connector I've never seen before. Clamp-ring thing. Tried squeezing it picking it open, nothing. Service manual doesn't go into detail. So next morning I felt like I'd been hit in the back with a sledgehammer. could barely move. It's been a slow recovery, what with PT and all, still not back (no pun intended) to "normal". At 65 things don't heal as fast as they used to...
If he’s capable of pulling motor out pulling head off why hasent he thrown a new turbo on just to check
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 no he said it had 2 new cores
I don’t care. if that is the only turbo the cars run with test a new one to completely eliminate that variable considering it happens on boost that would be the first thing you would do no
Non destructive crack testing on all induction or oil fed areas.
@@robertdoyle4098 you seem to know what your talking about so Should I bring the car you the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Or just send the turbo off for testing alot cheaper then replacing it I use turbo solutions used them for years never had a problem
Lee, TURBO OIL FEED REDUCER.
Is it the correct diameter ? Has it got one fitted? People used to drill them out and that caused oil to pass in the turbo.
Can you get pictures of the breather set up?
I had this before..... needs to try another turbo.
Lee, your hands are a bit tied until you can run the engine in the car, I have diagnosed more outside issues with engines that way than I have by taking them apart, I'm guessing there is nothing wrong with the basic engine lump, your work is top notch, its the bits bolted to it is probably causing the problem like the turbo or the crankcase breather system, eliminate them or change them to narrow it down. Regarding new turbo cores any I rebuild now for customers I have to make new PB1 bronze bushes for them, the bushing metal used in modern cores is shit, seems to be some sort of brass that doesn't last much longer than half an hours running.
fixed seats and moveable pedal box
A bit like you I do "Repairs" usually due to my repair the item is returned running far better than when made, So if there is ever a problem nine times out of ten its the "Customer", where as they just used and abused it in the past they seem to change their tune since spending a bit of money on maintenance and they now actually "Look" for any minor issues, so when items get returned and I treat it as it should be treated my thorough tests usually return either no or negligible faults.
Shame they can't do a Turbo delete for a week or so.
Out of daftness has the smoking cozy does it need a reducer in the turbo oil feed ?
That was my thought, dont know if a cosworth had a restrictor banjo bolt, as had to fit a 1mm one on my td04 on my zetec turbo
Turbo 👍
The Cossie burning oil should not be the turbo. The compressor and turbine housing have nothing to do with oil. With putting a replacement cartridge in, I can not see that being a problem. The one thing that may be a problem, is there a restrictor fitting in the oil inlet to the turbo cartridge. Without one the cartridge gets flooded with oil and the seal can not hold it back.
When the cartridge was rebuilt, was the oil slinger omitted?
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
what lubricates the bearings in the turbo?
If the turbo is OK then check the turbo lube oil drain as well.
Will the replacement door need contouring to look like a real E30, or is he sending an E30 door?
If that cosworth is on the standard breather system, then check the breather non return valves on the inlet manifold. If they stay open or are sticking open, symptoms will be exactly as he has stated.
If you are positive, the breather is 100% spot on, then check the drain pipe from the turbo and inside the turbo, that it not blocked or restricted, check the turbo oil supply jet to the turbo is the correct size jet.
Before you raise the seat make sure you check the fit with your helmet on
as mentioned below i would be checking the turbo return
Subaru: Have you found the leak in the Subbie exhaust manifold? PE when you blokes mention " going up to see Bob" does that mean that you are going north of your current location, or going south to a larger town?
Means north for me, going to Wolverhampton! Which is the furthest north I will have ever been in England! 😂😂
My moneys on the turbo 👍🏻
It it was up to me, to the pub and then out for an Indians! A good night out is what we need, like!
Positive crankcase ventilation check valve on the Cosworth sounds like it's bad.
Another fix could be adding an oil separation catchcan to the PCV system.
I have seen this issue on a. Volvo 5 cylinder turbo motor and the culprit was the piston cooling jets were squirting to much flow
Hope that helps
The oil issue 100% is caused by crank case pressure. What causes what is described is boost being forced into the oil pan. Yes a broken ring can cause some oil up to the intake but on a new build I would put money that there is no check valve or a broken check valve in the breather system
Just spotted the 'library' on the workbench. Or is it the workshop manual? 'W. Heath Robinson - Inventions'!!! 🤣 Comedy gold.
Lee you look as cheesed off as I do when I have a cold🤧
Can we see the BM.....loads of work done by the sounds but cant recall seeing any footarge
It will be finished soon, maybe by christmas next year lol.
I would suggest he try it with another turbo. In my opinion i would say he has an issue with his turbo/ set-up
With the Cosworth I would suspect the turbo housing. Maybe needs a drive with some of the breathers disconnected. Oil in the inlet manifold points to the turbo, is the intercooler oily?
To much oil pressure going through the turbo it needs a reducer
Is the turbo drain big enough and free flowing? Even a little lip or the gasket on the drain can cause oiling issues.
Pcv a possibility?
Bad check valve or may in backward?
Turbo seals or Hair line cracks in turbo exhaust housing on turbo it self .
I know the turbo on 1.4 t cruze here in usa the housing on hot side crack . Just a thought.
Remove the turbo and run it a while. If it still uses oil, then it's something in the motor. If not then it's boost related and look at all the parts that handle boost.
I hope you get to the bottom of it thanks guys ❤🎉😊
Change the turbo out and see if the problem persists
Great video, if everything you done on the engine was fine when you checked it then it has to be something external to the engine like the turbo!!! If he insists then get him to get an engineer to be with you when you strip it again and if it's all ok then he has to pay you for both times you have taken it apart. Have a great weekend.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 I don't know how but my son's mini cooper s was using oil and eventually they found out it was a bad seal in the turbo!
Maybe you need to set up so you can run the engines before you give them back
mate I've had a bad back for over 20 years, i feel your pain. when my back goes out it's like someone has stabbed me in the back and knocks me to my knees.
Pulled muscle in the back can be exceedingly painful. Did mine once. Even breathing hurt let alone trying to get out of bed to taka a p.
crack in the turbo housing IMHO
Hi Lee the problem is still the turbo
100% Turbo @ fault or related turbo component...defo not engine issue.
the pistons are soaking in oil how is it coming from the turbo out the exhaust and back in the cylinders
The only way oil is getting in the cylinders are if the oil scraper ring is falling or the guides or seals are falling that’s what i have been told
Lee has sent the turbo off to turbo performance which hes not mentioned in he’s video he’s checked it come back fine however just to be on the safe side lee advised we try a new core
Then me and lee discussed about taking the car to pj motorsports for them just to give it a once over and do a leak down test and it’s passed the test however this is not testing the oil scraper rings ?
Then pj’s said we need to take the head off there’s definitely something going on in there as your using this much oil 1L per 100 miles
Pj’s also provided the breather kit for the car and that’s all clear free from blockage etc no corners have been cut on this build
Try it with a different turbo.
Has the turbo oil suply been modified? may need a restrictor? also check drain back into block as ive had one semi blocked with the same symptoms,the oil couldnt get into the sump and went through into the air stream
Is the cossie guy using a catch can for the breathers?.... if not get him to run it with them blocked off on the inlet end and see if that stops the smoking....
You need to get some cold press for your back mine are reusable stick them in the freezer and they work a treat Put them on your back when you sit down jobs a goodun
Boost pressure in the sump? (Only a guess as I do not know anything about the Cosworth Turbo)
Take the breather pipe to a catch can then vent that to atmosphere, if the can stays dry and it still burns oil it's not the breather. Manually pressurise the oil feed to the turbo core and see if oil comes out, pressure test the oil going into the turbo core, if the pressure exceeds the ability to drain back it'll coat the back of the impellor and burn oil, they often have restrictors to not overload the turbo but they also need to not restrict the oil out port, check the return pipe and the block hole and gaskets, the turbo might be ok and it might be the return line not letting the oil out. If the intake manifold gets oil in it with the breather off it's got to be the turbo but the turbo will be oiled up in the boost side of the turbo as well as the intake manifold.
Does hte official Heath Robinson manual have a section for Turbo Ford motors? Or does it double as an Ingenium workshop manual?
If your not racing the beemer, i think you could avoid putting it on its roof.
I know it's down on power if he removes the turbo, carnt he discintect them and try it.
Is the oil return from the turbo unrestricted?
turbo crack or turbo drain tube carboned up?
It's simple Lee use someone like turbo technics and they won't have a problem
is there oil in the inlet manifold or exhaust manifold
Inlet manifold gasket
I am sure that you have checked the long block every-which-way-to-sunday. Openly vent the crankcase overboard (catch can). With all of the Cosworths you do, don't you have a known-good spare turbo you could loan out? The one thing I know from watching this site is that Barum Engines is both knoledgeabke and meticulous. It ain't you.
"don't you have a known-good spare turbo you could loan out?" Not a good idea. The customer has to sort this issue out themselves, as it sounds like their turbo or breather set up is wonky.
change the turbo .if its ok you know the turbo.s gone
Have you considered getting the car up to you, along with the customer and fitting a borrowed or bought known good turbo and then test the car. If it cures the fault, the customer pays for it, or at least the labour if its borrowed, if it doesn't, you've at least eliminated the part of the car that ISN'T your problem...?
Just a thought....
Not a good idea. Offering to do that will be a bottomless pit of time and expenses.
@@ataxpayer723 point.
@@ataxpayer723 I've just retired from the motor trade. You say that issue is clearly oil coming into the inlet and once you've eliminated all other inlet sources, it has to be the turbo...So I thought it would be a good way to demonstrate your commitment to fairness AND reinforce your engine building expertise.
Hope it all resolves to everyone's satisfaction and you get the credit you are due, I have an 1159 Blydenstein Viva engine to refresh, so.. later!
Hi Lee
Might be worth looking into a high ratio steering rack as some of those BMW racks are pretty slow, it will make the car much easier to catch slides and be more enjoyable 👍
You only have warranty responsibility for the work you have done and the parts that you have fitted. As you said , if he thinks he has a case and you don't, the only solution is to get a verified, qualified independant party to check the work. This authority has to be agreed to by both parties and must be independant. If the claiment is proven to be right then you would have to pay all of the costs involved. If you were proven to be right then the claiment would have to pay all of the costs. If neither party can agree to any imposed terms for settlement then court litigation will be the only way forward. I really can't see any long term solution to these sort of problems other than bench testing the engine before returning it to the customer with a printout of the bench tested results and the test conditions. This of course would be costly in both time and money and still wouldn't guarantee customer satisfaction when the engine is run with components that were not inspected, fitted and tested by your workshop. I'm sure that your warranty conditions explain all of this and in all honesty if someone brought a case like this to court against a manufacturer they wouldn't stand a chance. If you bought a car from a manufacturer without a turbo, then fitted a turbo to the engine, during the warranty period, resulting in engine failure, that is your problem , not theirs.
Turbo. Everything else is reworked. Turbo not so!
Crank breather?
Try another turbo before he does anything more. Get somebody to lend a turbo and shove that on first.
Engine is rebuilt then removed dismantled and checked, seems strange to blame engine when turbo and breather have not been checked or replaced, just my view but i have would been looking and testing every thing else before the engine and if the customer reads this my advice would be dont start pulling the head off its already been checked after it was rebuilt if you can not find the issue then get help from some one better qualified.
I am reading this the thing is it’s had a turbo then lee said it could possibly be the turbo so I went and got a new turbos from turbo performance not no cheap crap when there was nothing wrong with the old one how just to eliminate that I got a new one then said it could possibly be the breather so disconnected that from the inlet still doing it then I have taken it to pj motorsports as me and lew discussed for them to check it as I’m only 100 miles from them and he’s come to the conclusion it could be the guides / head related so the next step would be to remove this the pistons are absolutely soaking with oil
How many new turbos dose it need Lee sent my original turbo to turbo performance for them to check come back fine then the week later I fitted a new one so I think we can rule out the turbo
@@KS_MOTORSPORT-13 Interesting, try to check where the oil is coming, look inside pipe from turbo, if it where a pistion/ring issue then inlet track would not be wet, similar if head issue there would be some oil around valves but none leading to head, better spending move time checking issue than guessing and replacing?
3 surgeries to back I know you’re pain. Acupuncture helps some
If your really bothered take the car for a day, set it up with a turbo of your own and go drive it ?
failing turbo.
Talking about stuff without showing us is not very engaging.
I wouldn't trust you lots to machine a lawn mower. !!!
No one cares what you think
@@Phuc_Yhou😂😂😂 legend
Get the vehicle and diagnose it yourself.
Find the problem then quote the customer the cost to resolve it
... and the cost of the diagnosis time at a premium 'Consultant Rate' ... !!!
Not a good idea. Who knows what set up the owner has used for his turbo, or how much boost has been applied to the engine.