We Need Better Villains In Modern Pokemon...
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- The last few major games for Pokemon, while offering plenty of other things, have been lacking severely in the villain department, and I'd like to figure out why that is. Lets chit chat!
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Once in a while we need some absolutely irredeemable villains like Giovanni and Ghetsis, because while I do like the more complex morally grey villains I think having villains like Giovanni and Ghetsis every now and then is a good change of pace
I prefer the older villains for this reason .
I grew up with the Really Bad Teams .
I'm a Generation 2 kid and I loved fighting the bad guys but now it feels like abit of a joke
You are not so smart
I think a better word for Giovanni is "unrepentant." He has his positive traits, and most incarnations of the character don't shy away from that, but they're also crystal clear on the fact that he's not a good man; even _he_ admits to that.
But yeah, Ghetsis is 100% irredeemable, and he got _exactly_ what he deserved in B2W2.
Team rocket felt like a threat. I will never forget how much of a twist it was finding out the Team Rocket Leader was the Final Gym Leader.
I glanced at the thumbnail, and I swear it said, “We need Aliens” 😅😂
Well, that’d definitely shake things up a tad 😭
Deoxys, Starmie, Staryu, Cleffa evo line, lunatone, solrock...
But wasnt Giratina, who was being controlled by Volo, the one who opened the space time distortions? And the lightning that was causing the nobles to go into frenzies was coming from out of those rifts. Many of the events happened in legends arceus was because of Giratina and Volo. Giratina sought revenge against Arceus for banishing it to the Distortion World. But in the process, Giratina and Volo were doing opening these rifts in search of Arceus. Causing pokemon to become frenzied, causing space time distortions all across hisui, and even causing us, the player character, to enter into the land of hisui from our world. It was all Volo’s fault the entire time. But it’s easy to miss because the build up to it was lackluster. Same problem Rose had.
Its because they're making the games to placate really young, immature kids and persons who freak out at the slightest amount of "violence" and thus have significantly watered down the quality of the franchise in terms of edge, stakes, and difficulty. Its also the reason rom hacks and nuzzlocks have taken off as they tend to give the real hard core pokemanic fans at least some of what they yearn for and deserve.
[a] A villianess on an out of the way island with control over a rare type of metal. Her pokeballs make pokemon brainwashed, loyal, emotionless machines that will be forced to learn Steel moves if they are not Steel type already. Releases, giant pokebots to take over the region and seek vengeance on "someone".
[b] Evil teams that the ability to make their own exclusive TM's
[c] Bullies and their enabling, manipulative, psycho, principal who wants to push the region to "accept" their way of doing things and even has key NPC under their thumb.
[d] Artificial pokemon from space takes over astronaut/scientist/unassuming business man and pushes to brainwash and assimilate.
[c] Religous sect that wants to force everyone to accept their light; and all people and pokemon that do not match their aesthetic will be imprisoned or purged.
Is all that at the bottom a listing of ROM Hack villains?
I was a child all the way back when generation 2 came out and Team Rocket 🚀 did nothing to make me want to bully anyone if anything it told me to protect others i love and are fond of .
I’m gonna tell you the truth here first is about chairman Rose
He’s a realistic villain. He’s an evil politician who does what he wants no matter the consequence that’s what they were going for buddy.
And volo was literally the reason legend, Arceus happened that portal he ripped open is what made the Pokémon go crazy and brought you there just in case you didn’t know that
20:35 Isn't that just Masuda with the Dex cut back in Gen 8? 🤣
I wouldn't say we _need_ villains like the ones you described, but we do need obstacles that are compelling. I personally believe that S/V did that, but I understand the appeal of having a solid threat to drive you throughout most of the story instead of trying to go for some sort of twist. I mean, imagine having a Pokemon character that's as scary as Death in Puss in Boots, where even pre-twist, he was lowkey terrifying. Cyrus kinda tried to do that, but he lacked quality, compelling writing IMO.
The biggest issue is what MAKES a great pokemon villain? Gen 1 and 2 is just the mafia, gen 3 is eco terrorists, gen 4, 5, and 6 are ego terrorists, gen 7 is about a woman's corrupted desires, gen 8 was a business man with little common sense, and finally gen 9 was about a professor's ambitions taken too far.
What would be considered deeply confrontational to the player character now? Since we've had world ending situations already, what could top that?
A villain who wants to destroy the region's leaders/pokemon league out of pure pettiness. Maybe you have a relative that's a gym leader or elite four and so you get involved in the plot trying to save them.
But villains aren’t nice guys!
That what I am saying
Pokemon has the same problem as most Disney movies nowadays, there are no clear villains or villainy. Just miscreants that annoy you.
I think Kieran would've been a good villain if he was show don't tell. Imagine a trainer who you beat that goes off the deep end, just to rematch you. Hurts Pokemon, screws over other trainers, pays off other trainers to hurt you in order for you not to make it to the Elite Four. For example, they trap you in a cave and you have to use Braile in order to find the way out or Unown.
Or maybe because of the internet age, have the rival start rumors so that the people of nearby towns despise you. Like what Gary did to Ash bumped up to 11. Have shopkeepers overcharge you for items or Nurse Joy refuse to help you after a certain amount of times due to public outcry. It's harsh, but proving your innocence would outwardly change the game. People with locked houses would let you in now to collect good items, maybe a Move Tutor rewards you with an exclusive move or someone sends you a Master ball. It would also incorporate the mom in the story as a personal cheerleader. Maybe there can be a mechanic where she calls you just to see how you are doing and you are given the choice to answer or block her. Different endings would ensue!
Dang my mind is racing with ideas now. Not letting Pokémon company take them, though, nope.
Not just better villians, better rivals too!
1 rival who picks what you're strong against ifc, but another who picks the last starter whos stronger than you.
A rival who was smug, always 1 step ahead of you and even became champion first. As a kid, I read the gym statues and ofc in gen 1 gary was always ahead. Made me want to beat him.
If that wasn't enough he told me "smell ya later" after I beat him. Didn't even let me win happy so when you finally beat them, it's so satisfying. Silver was similar but instead you see them change to be nicer and grow.
No more pushover rivals, make me want to beat them! Scarlett and violet was closer but still not entirely there.
Haven’t had a good rival since Gen 5
You forgot about the Charm sister bandits 12:08
Im personally fine with the villains, i got a lot more invested in scarlet and violet and the evil team/final boss was that, i can understand why your not the biggest fan of them, but hey we just have opinions that we should respect each others opinions
16:10 yeah i dont think thats right, i can see what your getting at but they are definitely still darker moments in Pokémon. literally you were told that the professor died in scarlet and violet, like i feel like that pretty dark to me, but hey that might just be me. Also i feel like its more of what the story is going through is the reason why those villains aren't very villainy.
Soul, I mess with your content, but you’re wrong about legends Arceus not having a villain Volvo is the prime reason why we got kicked out the village in the first place and Volvo was able to get the plates!!! Vodo is the sole reason why the commander was moving walkie.
He is the underlining problem of the main story !!!!! 🧐
I mean, thats fine and dandy, I just wish they were more upfront about that in the *main* story as opposed to keeping him as a boss in Post-Game, the credits already roll by the time we even have the option to progress that story and learn that stuff 😭😭
He’s also literally the reason for all the crazy shit happening around Hisui. The noble Pokemon became frenzied because volo woke up giratina. He created the space time rift problems when he began meddling with giratina and the other legends. The protagonist is handpicked by arceus to defeat volo.
@@SoulStoryMode but that wouldn’t make sense because the point of him was to make seem more like a companion and less of an opp…. but if you look closely on how he was talking to you, when you found certain shit, you already knew he was the villain.
Sub Text is key my friend…
@@CesarR1037 exactly!!!’
The reason why i was mainly talking about scarlet and violet is because Pokémon scarlet is my favorite Pokémon game(hot take i know)
At least Team Skull were real antagonists, even if not major ones. They were a bunch of thugs causing trouble for the people of the region, and at most were accomplices to the real Evil Team, distracting you while the actual baddies further their plans. Then you have Team "Marnie SIMPs" and Team "Dumb School Kids".
Even the actual Teams have gone downhill. Lusamine. Good character. Aether Foundation is lacking severely given how not prevalent they are until near the end of the story. Same with Rose and his company. You don't really face off with them until near the endgame. Whereas you regularly engage Rocket to Flare, Magma/Aqua being the best examples since Emerald has you fighting both of them, each getting some new, more fitting locations to fight them (Magma got a base on Mt. Chimney so Aqua could keep the seaside one and the underwater caves).
I would really love to see Game Freak take villains seriously again. I think it could add a lot to the Pokémon experience. I just don’t want them to take a leaf out of Tears of the Kingdom’s book. In that game, Ganondorf was only a villain just because, and that’s it. I was severely disappointed with him. But Pokémon can do better!
Your comments about having a villain like Thanos or Sephiroth are interesting, because the way you describe them, we...kinda already got them, albeit on a much lighter scale. Lysandre's belief that the only way to eliminate human greed was to commit worldwide genocide so the "chosen ones" wouldn't need to hoard anything for themselves was eerily similar to Thanos' motivation in the MCU, especially in the anime where, like Thanos, he completely discards his good intentions after being thwarted and decides to just kill everyone. On the other hand, while we haven't gotten a villain completely like Sephiroth, the way you described him as being brainwashed by another evil force kinda describes N: again, on a much lighter scale, as N still had enough sanity to see the error of his ways in the end and work to make amends.
At any rate, it would be great to get a consistent antagonistic presence again in Generation 10.
I don't think every game needs a villain. I would rather take a well made villain every once in a while over forced badly written villains every game.
Yeah personally I want the more serious villains back who were a threat for the region. Like we had back in gen 1 until gen 6. Personally I don't really like teams that aren't really a threat. I mean gen 7 was all right with the Aether Foundation turning however Team Skull wasn't very interested. Gen 8 was even worse with Team Yell who literally added nothing. Rose was all right but came way too late in the story. And gen 9 with the whole Team Star was also not my cup of tea. Really want the days of Team Plasma back
True, the villain teams add the only bit of story for Pokémon games since without it, it's just the same "Become the Champion" shtick over and over again.
15:05 you do have point but the way i take pokemon has it has its own sepret story and the villains/antagonist/evil group has their own level of villainy that can be taken on
I throw out some ideas of things i was guessing would happen on a different video but what if at some point we get a game where the E4 and champion are the actual villains and you and your friend group is the ones who stop them giving more drive to that archetype of character cause while the last few gens the friends have done something it feels like they could be doing more
We've been getting tons of antagonists.... but not very many villains.
Team Star, and Chairman Rose were antagonists... but they weren't villains.
On principle, I agree that the villains could stand to gain a bump up in quality. But I feel like your reading of the villains these last couple generations is a bit shortsighted. Rose, for example; his plan is most definitely insane, even in the context of the story. This doesn't disregard the fact that he was willing to unleash an ancient calamity for what he assumed would be a net positive (an archetype that, I've noticed, is something you seem to want as per your own words at 20:02).
Also, you seem to use the word "antagonist" when you really mean to say "villain;" contradictory as it may sound, the two words do not mean the same thing. An antagonist is just someone who opposes a protagonist. Messing that characters like Kamado and Team Star, while not outright villains, can still count as antagonists.
In the end, what I think you really want is not "better" villains, but rather villains that you personally can appreciate as characters without any asterisks.
I do like team star, one of the reasons is that i believe their scary in a different way, and that is a more realistic way, which reading and watching deeper down the lore of team star genuinely shocked me that game freak did this, not because its this big oh my god this evil team is going to take over everything, but because its the opposite, they are relatable, in an almost terrifying way and the reason why they became that was gut wrenching, but if you dont like them or dont see them the same way, i respect your opinion
I get wanting a real villain but in my opinion team star is really well done your told a group of delinquents are bothering other students and the staff aren't doing enough to take care of them so your doing something about it yourself but you slowly start tk learn that there not actually bad people and they where actually the once getting bullied but decided to stand up for themself things just kindnof went overboard. I legit cared more for the members of team star than like most of the villain groups in pokemon as characters. But i get that they don't fill the hole of villain you're feeling but still i think there amazing characters and done really well.
16:25 see I have to disagree with this point if they really decided to do that. We were kids when you fought Giovanni Cyrus and big G. Like they can’t use that as an excuse unless they really think todays kids are so soft and sheltered that they couldn’t handle it
I think people were just tired of having those kinds of villains at the time. I feel like Sword and Shield was pretty much made as a anwser to people who just wanted to go through the league.
As far as threatening villain teams go, it all went downhill after Gen 7 (excluding Macro Cosmos TO AN EXTENT)
Lockey i know this is about modern ones but hot take the only reason team plasma were able to go has far has they did was because of plot armor. It makes zero sense the elite four or chapions didn't arrest those guys sooner.
Kamado COULD be considered the villain in Legends Arceus, because after the ban from the village, the scene with the Shinx happen and there's a heavy emphasys on family and union to survive. But even that didn't lasted long because we get shelter inmediately.
I didn't feel NOTHING for Volo... he revealed himself and I was like... "dude... that hair alone is enough for Arceus to reject you"... but with Kamado, i DID FEEL SOMETHING, I knew he had some reason even if he was reckless, and even after that Mesprit asks you how you felt. It was personal. Even when I demolished his team it was personal.
Honest. Pokemon doesn't work very well with an open world so far, because in a linear narrative you can increase the stakes as the player goes through the path assigned. But in an open world you have to think "shit, what if the player doesn't go this way?" And you have to reduce the scope of urgency.
I want a villain so much too, someone that I just see and I go "FUCK HE'S BACK". But at this point I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic 😅
I think we should have an evil group. Not apart of the main game. Give them their own main side story. The more they seperate stuff the better. I jis like know we go through story and side quest. And theres a whole evil group somewhere doin them. Dont do like the first pokemon games where they were apart of completing the main game. They could even be post game stuff to make it feel like its more to do after the main stuff is done. SV couldve given us a 3rd dlc thats all about a evil team. It doesnt have to connect to anything in yhe region other than they founds some crystals that theyve been using to take control of stuff. Maybe make pokeballs using the crystal that can steal pokemon from trainers and have them takin strong pokemon for some greater plan or something its alot of straight evil stuff we can see in pokemon. They went soft
LLysandre is the closest to a Thanos in the Pokémon world, not the greatest villain though, writing wise at least
I miss the proper Villain outfit.
Team Star was great but functionally they weren't a proper Villain team.
Macro Cosmos comes out of nowhere and is unfinished.
Team Yell is punk cheer squad, not evil not serious.
Team Skull was fine, not my cup of tea but just Hooligans.
Team aether had 2 crazy leaders that is it.
Flare was the last true villain team, a more heroic Team Galactic
When it comes to pokemon villains there all ok
We'd need better games before villains like they can't even get the making a enjoyable experience right let alone a good story
i agree rose is one of worst villain in pokemon history even anime aka journeys/olm just try to flat out ignore sword and shield plot this why only did about 4 episodes of story in the journeys anime just forget about it yeah that's why i don t blame thing olm behind the scenes was mess like most anime studios nowadays
Yeah, in Violet, I was at first trying to figure out what Team Star even wanted, then when it's revealed that they're just, hiding from their bullies, I was like, wait am I the villain? It's such a backwards story idea. And then team yell was just enthusiastic fans. Literally, Marnie tells them to stop messing with us and they just ... do. Like, it was so pointless. Plus with Rose, all of the story happened off screen. I remember a moment, we come out of a cave, and then you get news of Pokemon dynamaxing outside of a stadium. I was like, finally some action! And then they're just like, you shouldn't deal with this. You continue your gym challenge while we handle the story.
This drove me up the wall. I was so infuriated when we couldn't enjoy the actual danger of the game and was just told "eh we'll handle it. Go away" smh
@@ryuiichikune6250 Right?!? I felt so sidelined. Like, it was so obvious that Rose was up to something but when we got there I was just so frustrated. Like 1) It was obvious you were the villain, so it's not a surprise that you're up to something. 2) I haven't been involved in any of the build up to the story so it feels like I'm just suddenly being thrown into the ending of the story when I know nothing about it. 3) His plan was so stupid. "In 1000 years there'll be an energy problem! I must solve it now!" When he said that, I think I complained to my wife and said "Imagine if someone in medieval Europe knew about our modern day energy issues and tried to solve it with 1024 AD technology and scientific knowledge. Their efforts would literally be worthless to us. Even worse, imagine if we gave them a book on how to build an atomic bomb, since that's similar to how nuclear power plants work. They'd 100% misuse that technology. It'd be 1000x more helpful for them to just start the research on a solution, and give the world 1000 years of research on the problem. Like dude, Eternetus isnt going anywhere. Let's do some research before doing an insanely controversial action, that if you are wrong, is potentially going to end the world, you know, like all the mythologies of your region talk about???
7:01 Tell that to Climate Alarmists..... This is the ONE angle for Chairman Rose that I actually give the writers, they could've made him a good allegory towards this real-life issue.
Dang Good Video ! Even Super Mystery Dungeon had really good villain, better then Gen 8 and 9 lol.
they are too weak lol they should make em stronger like they did in legends Arceus but they dont have to bring back he battle gimmick of fast and strong mode and also gym leaders should not be interly based around one type and should have mutiple types on a team to be actually difficult or a challenge they should also use the generational gimmick to the limit or their best abilitie for example in scarlet and violet if the ace pokemon of a gym leader is a grass type weak to a fire type it should terastilize to a water type to resist the fire type to exponentially ramp the difficulty.
We haven't had world threatening villains since Generation 6. I wonder if we'll ever have something like that again.
I personally can’t agree with all your points. I mean if your looking for a thanos or Sephorath type villain in Pokémon N and Lysander exist. I mean N was isolated his whole, thought what he was doing was right and even acknowledge that there are people that misuse pokemon which is a fact. The only thing is you the player are able to help him see the light to change. And Lysander said before he sets up the weapon Every Pokémon will die when this weapon goes off but it’s worth it to maintain the worlds beauty, Lysander problem was that him and his team weren’t written that well.
Plus I feel you have to look at from a developer perspective sure for use the players we haven’t had a full evil team sense gen 6 or 7. But the developers have been making nothing but that for 6 or 7 generations. It’s not surprising that they would want to change it up, especially they know older players play the games. Like LA is not a Man vs Man story it’s a Man vs Nature story. You the player vs a Natural disaster that does not seem influenced by an evil force. And Volo not being obvious makes his betrayal more impactful as I feel he’s the first twist villain atleast in the modern games to feel like a twist it makes him memorable instead of just a Cynthia/Cyrus fusion.
Then gen 9 is all about freedom and exploring if there was an obvious villain it would make them fight them feel more like an obligation disrupting your journey taking away that choose your own path style they wanted hence why team star are not world ending threats. And the AI is a threat out of force not their own choice which is actually quite sad for them. Sure they may not be traditional villains but I don’t think that’s a bad thing as pokemon doesn’t always need it to make a good story or give the heroes a satisfying ending.
And while I respect your points and would love another Giovanni or Ghetsis. I can’t agree having them would automatically make it better, or the newer stories are worse for not having them. Except for Sw/Sh that stories pretty garbage.
NO MORE DEX CUT IN ALL THE FUTURE POKEMON GAMES!
I want a really dark pokrmon game
People getting killed type of dark
@@Gyattzee well in gen 9 the professor got killed
@@richardhut1742 right I forgot
16:25 see I have to disagree with this point if they really decided to do that. We were kids when you fought Giovanni Cyrus and big G. Like they can’t use that as an excuse unless they really think todays kids are so soft and sheltered that they couldn’t handle it