"I Think At Least 70% Cheated..." The F1 Esports Cheating Saga Continues

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  • Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
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Комментарии • 1,3 тыс.

  • @andrewwroth9764
    @andrewwroth9764 Год назад +1733

    Jimmy Broadbent, professional shed dweller turned irl racing driver turned investigative journalist.

  • @iContrast
    @iContrast Год назад +426

    As an experienced modder of the F1 game, I can say that it is so easy to mod the game in a way to give a performance improvement in a practically invisible way. Not only are we talking things such as 0.5% grip increases etc... we are talking; Better fuel consumption, Better tyre wear, Better tyre temperature working window, Bigger ERS battery Capacity, More ERS harvesting, More effective DRS, Less drag, Improved suspension, More grip on grass/marbles. All things that I have already modded (for videos) in the past and if I just improve any of those attributes by 0.5%+ or multiple attributes it will be visibly undetected.

    • @ToneRetroGaming
      @ToneRetroGaming Год назад +15

      Would love to hear your take on all of this!

    • @mb2776
      @mb2776 Год назад +4

      yeah, it still pathetic how easy the modder was able to bypass the lame security control of the game.

    • @Imshittingmypants
      @Imshittingmypants Год назад +5

      Yeah and at the pro level this would be insane. The number of people able to get within half of second of the world record is over 1000z. So a very talented sim racer can just go from regular top 5% in the game to a pro.

    • @HowsYourFaceFeel
      @HowsYourFaceFeel Год назад +6

      @@mb2776 which is why all of these official leagues are bullshit. NOT LAN and not on a decent game. Its all a weird sham right now.

    • @damp2269
      @damp2269 Год назад +7

      its weird the game would take a snapshot of the client stats to compare in the future. why not compare it to an master sheet in a codemaster server?

  • @iWerli
    @iWerli Год назад +1301

    I won't speak for smaller events, but when it comes to absolute top tier racing, they need to be LAN events on in-house computers. We're talking about teams with millions of dollars to spend, surely they can fly drivers out to LAN events. Doesn't even need to have spectators, just a standard competitive arena.

    • @jimmydesouza4375
      @jimmydesouza4375 Год назад +47

      This doesn't give you absolute safety either. People want to use their own components like wheels and pedals, forcing them to use one they're not familiar with is a massive hamstringing. Unfortunately that hardware can have cheats embedded in to it as well. This has been a problem with LAN events for other games for years.

    • @Miragexe
      @Miragexe Год назад +14

      Problem with esports is the massive rigs involved that the drivers are using and that they are all over the world, imagine the virtual 24h race and the insane requirements that would have to not only get all the people in one place, to have that number of rigs and then even facilities, food, sleeping areas etc.
      It works for FPS games as they're small teams and short events where maybe they bring their own keyboard and mouse at best.

    • @Solidefex
      @Solidefex Год назад +6

      However if 70% were to cheat in the online qualifier then it brings the overall level of competition down

    • @jacobfuller-lewis5528
      @jacobfuller-lewis5528 Год назад +6

      ​@jimmydesouza4375 they could just basically make it a spec series

    • @kami_narisama
      @kami_narisama Год назад +8

      ​@@Miragexe while that is indeed the case, i feel like we're strictly talking about F1 esport for now. I'm pretty sure that other sim titles like Iracing, Rfactor, and such, have built in anticheat with them. Problem is that Codemasters seemingly didn't have that anticheat within the F1 games

  • @Joshimuz
    @Joshimuz Год назад +824

    The bit about cheaters accusing other people who are faster of cheating rings true to me from the speedrunning world, with loads of examples like how the guy who exposed Dream of cheating in Minecraft was also cheating himself

    • @Gatitasecsii
      @Gatitasecsii Год назад +8

      That sounds hilarious, can you direct me to a source talking on that?

    • @netgamersk
      @netgamersk Год назад

      Love your speedruns! Been long time fan of yours!

    • @swilleh_
      @swilleh_ Год назад

      and then you hire scientists to prove that you are cheating lmao

    • @netgamersk
      @netgamersk Год назад +63

      ​@@Gatitasecsii Karl Jobst did videos regarding this topic. Not sure which title is it but it should be pretty easy to figure out

    • @Einveldi
      @Einveldi Год назад +21

      @@Gatitasecsii Matt Parker's video on it is also very informative.

  • @stespin
    @stespin Год назад +183

    This reminds me of what happened in the Trackmania community, when a massive anticheat system got introduced and A LOT of "pros" got busted cheating most of their WRs.
    Also, the fact that after decades spent developing this title Codemaster still doesn't have an anti-cheat to speak of is absolutely insane.

    • @Ramonatho
      @Ramonatho Год назад +16

      Riolu moment in F1

    • @TheUKNutter
      @TheUKNutter Год назад +27

      But then hefest got this run

    • @dj7oya
      @dj7oya Год назад +1

      People pay for the same game every year and they still don't know or care about developing a trusted anticheat system. Pathetic, and it is kind of payers fault to reward them every year anyways.

  • @zdrux
    @zdrux Год назад +649

    Getting caught with your cheats and saying the game company is working with you on them, is the equivalent of "I don't smoke! I'm holding them for a friend, I swear!"

    • @kmonk101
      @kmonk101 Год назад +76

      It was a shady enough excuse when he said it. It got worse when EA and codies responded with radio silence.
      Now that Codemasters has affirmatively stated that they aren't working with him or anyone else on cheats, it seems pretty conclusive that the guy is a cheater, and action needs to be taken.

    • @bestfinlandball7942
      @bestfinlandball7942 Год назад +26

      Yeah I don't buy the excuse. If the cheat really is as basic as the dev says EA and Codemasters would have nothing to gain from "testing" it. Plus having the folder open during a league race & reacting the way he did. It's incredibly sus.

    • @jo3ld0wn
      @jo3ld0wn Год назад +8

      Clara!

    • @landonmurray3814
      @landonmurray3814 Год назад +11

      ​@Kevin Crotty in the last video jarno said he literally was working with codies and that all the teams knew about it?

    • @landonmurray3814
      @landonmurray3814 Год назад +1

      ​@Kevin Crotty in the last video jarno said he literally was working with codies and that all the teams knew about it?

  • @mobyhuge4346
    @mobyhuge4346 Год назад +280

    Man Raycevik's video about racing games are true, we really are 10 years behind everyone else when the biggest competition for the biggest brand in motorsport still has a trivial cheating issue

    • @ab8jeh
      @ab8jeh Год назад +24

      The F1 game is terrible. It's no surprise.

    • @mobyhuge4346
      @mobyhuge4346 Год назад +40

      @@ab8jeh and the likes of the big sims like rfactor2 and iRacing also have their share of big issues, and only iRacing's issue is avoidable if you're well of economically

    • @chrissennfelder7249
      @chrissennfelder7249 Год назад +7

      There's only one game that successfully bridges the gap between arcade and sim right now: Wreckfest. All the other games are either mtx slot machines or nerd level sims. (Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge nerd and I love AC to bits.)

    • @madpew
      @madpew Год назад +2

      It's because the racinggenre has only 2 branches. Arcade and simulators but neither focus on competitive racing other than "tacked on" multiplayer. there's only a few games that fill that gap, yet struggle at the e-sport side of things.

    • @cbj4sc1
      @cbj4sc1 Год назад +4

      It's because people do t give a fuck about racing games, just franchises. They then stick to their corner and shit on everything that isn't "it"

  • @MasterofSpiders
    @MasterofSpiders Год назад +403

    I'd take that 70% figure with a massive pinch of salt, personally.
    Having been in a game where cheating, and more importantly accusations of cheating, were commonplace at times due to poor cheat detection, what became very obvious is that people who cheat and make cheats have a tendancy, be it conscious or not, to overestimate the number of cheaters to justify what they do.
    On the plus side, now that Codemasters & EA have been told how the cheat works they don't have many excuses for not closing the exploit off.

    • @deathZor42
      @deathZor42 Год назад +8

      While this cheat is relatively easy to well solve for, because it's basically invalid inputs ( if you re-run the inputs of the race it should get you different results not sure how deterministic the F1 game engine is ).
      The sad reality is your never gonna close of 100% and you likely get to a point of electronic drive aids implemented in software where the defense seems almost impossible, the sad reality of anti-cheat any anti-cheat is that really it's a losing proposition, you can make it harder but never impossible.

    • @zwenkwiel816
      @zwenkwiel816 Год назад +16

      ​@@deathZor42so make it harder...
      I mean just letting it happen doesn't make any sense.

    • @Khosumi
      @Khosumi Год назад +5

      "Having been in a game where cheating, and more importantly accusations of cheating, were commonplace at times due to poor cheat detection, what became very obvious is that people who cheat and make cheats have a tendancy, be it conscious or not, to overestimate the number of cheaters to justify what they do."
      You dont know how true that is. Currently, tarkov is infested with cheaters. Every single lobby is infested with them, and don't get me started with GTA online.

    • @MasterofSpiders
      @MasterofSpiders Год назад +10

      @@Khosumi Trust me I do.
      Game was APB: Reloaded, and literally every time someone did an 'interview' with a famous hacker or hack coder / seller they'd be "EVERYONE CHEATS EVEN BAD PLAYERS!".
      If that was true, then I was a gaming God on there to keep pace. And believe me, I'm not.

    • @Warriorcat49
      @Warriorcat49 Год назад +6

      @@MasterofSpiders
      Logically all that means is that cheaters have about as much information on the actual number of cheaters as the rest of us when there's no good way to tell. They don't know either. The 70% number could be higher or lower than reality, or even spot on by accident.

  • @StreetComp
    @StreetComp Год назад +47

    I’ve worked in TV sports/news for 25 years and you’re doing good work here. You’ve had this channel for years and id bet most/all viewers would say you’re honest and trustworthy, even if it’s just sim racing/Motorsports it matters! So you’re starting from a good foundation and thats what’s needed for investigative journalism. But in general you know the basics: multiple reliable sources, objectivity, accuracy. It’s also imperative that other people check your work before released. Someone could feel angry enough to get lawyers involved so always good to take the time and double check things!

  • @Fury_Fiber
    @Fury_Fiber Год назад +30

    Man im genuinely sad that post got deleted, honestly i really respect the creator of the mod for making the post. His replies/convos in the comments were super interesting and cleared up a lot of stuff for me. Also thanks Jimmy for recording at least part of the thread so it is not lost forever!

  • @Fatty420
    @Fatty420 Год назад +395

    A phonecall from his "people" after 10 or 20 attempts to contact would definitely be justified. After 1 attempt? That's panic.

    • @noahgray5229
      @noahgray5229 Год назад +157

      yeah, the whole stick with "he's just a kid" doesn't gel well with me if he is, you know, competing for 3/4 million pounds. it's obvious imo that he and many are cheating, especially with the reactions, carreton too. but as we already knew, young, "immature" people don't really consider anything past their own gain, so no surprise, really?

    • @danielo7985
      @danielo7985 Год назад +108

      Well, if you took the time to search his name on twitter, you'll find they're more than justified wanting people to leave him alone.
      Constant harassment under every post, must be insane for a 17 year old to have to deal with all of that.

    • @joshhill5848
      @joshhill5848 Год назад

      ​@@danielo7985don't cheat then

    • @michelvanbriemen3459
      @michelvanbriemen3459 Год назад +23

      Yeah that act from that team alone makes me think the use of cheating isn't just very well known by all the teams in F1 eSports, but might well be encouraged by the teams.

    • @n4rf645
      @n4rf645 Год назад +11

      To be fair, if I was good enough to be somewhere near a million dollar prize pool, I wouldn't even think twice about cheating to make sure I'd get there. Especially seeing how easy it is to cheat in F1. And this is not me defending cheaters, this is me condemning the fact that the people who offer the prize pool don't seem to care that it's that easy.

  • @EnderCapitalG
    @EnderCapitalG Год назад +163

    The best part of this is that the F1 cheat basically works via a Race Condition.

    • @MeriaDuck
      @MeriaDuck Год назад +29

      It takes a certain combination of interests to get that joke 🤣

    • @Milanutje
      @Milanutje Год назад +5

      I love niche jokes like this

    • @josh1234567892
      @josh1234567892 Год назад +3

      God damn that's good lmao

    • @peterhuston7888
      @peterhuston7888 Год назад +3

      That's hilarious, I guess I have to watch the whole video now.

  • @Andrew369C
    @Andrew369C Год назад +191

    Jimmy please be careful reporting on this, you need to know the sources as anyone can lie and pretend to be anyone online.
    Really pleased you're making this known and keeping us all informed!

    • @eoic4721
      @eoic4721 Год назад +14

      I think this is a concern seeing as the video is more or less going over a Reddit post. That being said, a simple, "this is all speculative, don't take any of this as the truth" would work well to remedy the conundrum.

    • @vikhr
      @vikhr Год назад +6

      It's legit because on unknowncheats he said the same thing

    • @Jimmy_Broadbent
      @Jimmy_Broadbent  Год назад +105

      ​@EOIC I mention numerous times that there was no proof to back up this claim

  • @mariusfranzen4375
    @mariusfranzen4375 Год назад +55

    The most simple solution in my opinion is to do the same “screenshot” thing that they currently do, except compare to data on an official F1 server. Don’t just compare local data to earlier local data

    • @2xb91
      @2xb91 Год назад +22

      Exactly this, max grip, top speed and whatever changes you could make with this hack are all predefined by the game. If everyone should have the same values, why not measure it against a yardstick which you know can't be tampered with.

    • @netgamersk
      @netgamersk Год назад +7

      ​@@2xb91 the problem with F1 is that is not deterministic. So even though there are hard values which cannot be modified there are some which changes. I think it's completely possible but it would require the engine to be changed first. Also if something like that is applied it should be doing multiple times per lap, ideally on every corner. Because again you could make an bypass or change the data throughout the game after connecting to server so it would be too late.

    • @robertt9342
      @robertt9342 Год назад +2

      They can also simulate inputs on a standard game and compare results, server side.

    • @skullplays6928
      @skullplays6928 Год назад

      @@robertt9342 takes up way to much resource

    • @Lodethebig
      @Lodethebig Год назад +3

      An easier way to do this would to just be to close the game if it detects the "screenshot" process being suspended. If the game does not receive data after a certain time in a session you just get thrown out.

  • @akeyuk
    @akeyuk Год назад +8

    It feels like E-Sports is like cycling was in the 90's while the big events may be 'clean-ish' qualifying and a number of other events are 'charged' or less enforced allowing cheats to be run. As always thanks for the great content Jimmy

  • @Robalogot
    @Robalogot Год назад +7

    I used to work in the gaming industry and every number we got indicated 10% of the userbase of most online games were cheating/willing to pay for cheats. The numbers came from criminal investigations, registered users to forums where you had to pay to get an invite, manual tests on servers (discord wasn't a thing back then). Most of those games were shooters and RTS games, but I don't see when it was 10% across the board, it would be any different in simracing. It's the reason I quit most multiplayer games except for iracing, as the risk of losing your account there and the matchmaking made it so I didn't have to deal with cheaters if they exist.

  • @Erik_The_Viking
    @Erik_The_Viking Год назад +41

    Taking that at face value, 70% is shockingly high. Add the fact that cheating is ridiculously easy, you would think that EA/CM would put some effort in this. Given the money involved with e-sports they would have a vested interest in keeping it clean. I actually stopped playing a lot of online games years ago because people were constantly cheating and got sick of having to deal with them.

  • @RubyRoks
    @RubyRoks Год назад +27

    I appreciate the hell out of you digging into this. It's not your usual content, but it's important for the future of sim racing and you're doing a great job of getting down to the facts

  • @aikumaDK
    @aikumaDK Год назад +34

    If Codemasters is as committed to combating cheaters as they were at adding interesting stuff to F1 22, I can see why it sounds like we're just scratching the surface.

    • @broncobalboa
      @broncobalboa Год назад

      its mindboggling how you had a nice base for the game in 2016-18 and this is what you have done with it in the last few years? have been loyal since 2010, but after the buggy release last year i wont be preordering anymore.

    • @demonicsquid7217
      @demonicsquid7217 Год назад +1

      That's a use of the phrase 'interesting stuff' I've not heard before.

    • @halofreak1990
      @halofreak1990 Год назад

      @@broncobalboa I've only ever pre-ordered the 2020 Michael Schumacher edition of the game. I've also restricted myself to the even-numbered releases, which seems to have shielded me from a lot of the game's various issues, as those were somehow most common in the odd-numbered games.

  • @turbo_marc
    @turbo_marc Год назад +66

    How does anyone get away with cheating in professional and official F1 esports?

    • @michaelharder3055
      @michaelharder3055 Год назад +83

      1. Install cheats
      2. play game.

    • @loganh9937
      @loganh9937 Год назад +3

      It's more easy to get away with on online events. In-person Lan events like the early f1 eSports qualifiers, are impossible to cheat on.
      Also, people who use their own set up (Thomas ronhaar e.g) instead of teams like Ferrari who have their own section in the factory.

    • @rhyswilliams4893
      @rhyswilliams4893 Год назад +8

      Because they have no anti cheat system in place.

    • @swilleh_
      @swilleh_ Год назад +7

      @@loganh9937 impossible to cheat on lan? want me to remind you of cheaters in the csgo pro league?

    • @Holoflux
      @Holoflux Год назад +4

      @@swilleh_ Not impossible but much less likely and common

  • @MonkStarling
    @MonkStarling Год назад +2

    I think the biggest issue is like the one in TrackMania: theonly way to "prove" no cheating is input records and replaying them on a "vanilla" game.
    Turns out over half of the WR in TrackMania were cheated. That cheat was even easier; the game was ran at lower speeds to make it easier to react and optimize, then the recording was sped up.

  • @stumptrash3199
    @stumptrash3199 Год назад +68

    Although I agree with the approach that anyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty, it is funny that like 3 or 4 days ago there was a screenshot of some timetrial leaderboard and Ronhaar was ahead of the cheats promo account by a couple hundredths. I would not consider it a direct proof of anything but on the other hand it would be a really impressive demonstration of skill or a weird coincidence.

    • @varyagace
      @varyagace Год назад +19

      I can see him being so pissed at it (and having a massive ego) to actually get down to do laps and laps and laps until he beat their time. But also, weird coincidence.

    • @halofreak1990
      @halofreak1990 Год назад

      Eh... quite often cheaters aren't that good even when they're cheating. I've been in multiplayer matches where people with wall hacks and other cheats got shat on by the regular players, simply because they were _that_ bad at the game, and could only barely get along with the help of those cheats. What use is being able to shoot through walls if you can't aim or track moving players?

  • @flemmer1310
    @flemmer1310 Год назад +18

    I think you hitting on the point regarding them "not wanting to pay for anti-cheating software" hits the nail on the head with EA. It's been an issue with their FIFA games forever. It always has and will come down to profits. They'll just churn out a new game year after year without genuine care of fixing major issues because people will pay for the new game.

    • @jameswhiting3543
      @jameswhiting3543 Год назад +2

      The main problem with all games now days…

    • @dorkovic
      @dorkovic Год назад

      Anti-cheat is expensive. And it's never a 1-time expense.

  • @ChasingChevy
    @ChasingChevy Год назад +3

    I find the lackluster anti-cheat measures from a company called Codemasters to be quite ironic at least.

  • @dreww5451
    @dreww5451 Год назад +1

    "I'm not really a journalist..."
    You covered a story that you felt needed coverage, you qualified your opinions as such, and you pointed out the facts. You also attempted to reach out to get testimony from some of those directly involved, and barring that, you disclosed your journey into doing so. You used examples, cited sources, and explained the issue in detail.
    You are a journalist. Excellent vid, m9.5.

  • @Heldermaior
    @Heldermaior Год назад +12

    During the event, you could load stuff over the wheel for instance. If you use your own.

  • @Daniel-hh8ge
    @Daniel-hh8ge Год назад +12

    keep doing this please the only way is to embarass EA into doing something about it

  • @Ixxlostinabox
    @Ixxlostinabox Год назад +8

    Client side authentication is always going to have backdoors. I cant believe that CM and EA don't have a server side version of this authentication.

  • @justinkrizenesky
    @justinkrizenesky Год назад +3

    As someone that used to deal with a lot of cheating on iR, before iR got 'big', this is exceptionally scary for the sim racing community....

  • @snaillio
    @snaillio Год назад +2

    Cheating in sim racing as a whole seems to be getting worse by the day. 3 days ago I was in an open Assetto Corsa lobby racing MX5 cup cars Vallelunga, and we had someone join the lobby and go 6 seconds faster than me and the other top 2 guys in qulifying. He insisted he was not cheating, turned the cheats off, then 3 laps into the race, passed almost everyone on the straights with what seemed like a 200hp difference. I know its not the same as Esports, but it shows that some people cant handle loosing, regardless of what level they are at. Things like this are completely ruining sim racing for those of us that value fair racing, and I feel like its only a matter of time until sim racing is viewed as unattractive to the masses because of it. Thank you for this series of videos Jimmer. Someone has to talk about it.

    • @bigredracingteam9642
      @bigredracingteam9642 Год назад

      Or maybe he just got a good exit out of the last corner? I have often overtaken people on a straight with quite a large difference in speeds and it's invariably because they seem to think that racing is all about braking as late as possible.

  • @dylanzrim3635
    @dylanzrim3635 Год назад +4

    Man. If 70% were cheaters, that puts even myself into Esports contention if that 70% suddenly got banned.

  • @ViralVideos-wp5cz
    @ViralVideos-wp5cz Год назад +1

    This situation is very similar to PUBG cheating scandal. One of the team was first exposed of cheating but later they found out most of the players were also cheating. In a game with large number of players at the same time its incredibly hard to notice cheating because and if one of the players is cheating in such a competitive environment you best believe most of them are cheating.

  • @florisbackx1744
    @florisbackx1744 Год назад +5

    Like I said in the previous video, probably everyone uses it to a certain degree. It reminds me so much of the doping drama in the previous decades where most don't want to use it but you have to if you want to have chance to win.

    • @Sharpened_Spoon
      @Sharpened_Spoon Год назад

      Right. It’s sad that we iterate the same follies as seen in the past, naively expecting them not to be exploited in a competitive arena.

  • @lucasblakeley88
    @lucasblakeley88 Год назад +1

    For someone to suggest that 70% of esports drivers cheat or have cheated is a horrendous accusation, completely baseless and unbelievably disrespectful. I've said it a few times whether on twitch or twitter but we are getting to a stage now where many drivers who have done absolutely nothing but dedicate themselves for years to get to the level we are at are being discredited with this BS. When we give it everything and push ourselves to be competitive in these championships just for our integrities to be questioned is pretty damn depressing. This needs to be resolved. Hopefully going forward into the future action will be taken to prevent this stuff from spiralling any further.

  • @KepleroGT
    @KepleroGT Год назад +77

    I can't believe that I'm actually happy that GT7 is console only and always online. Really cuts out the cheating by a lot

    • @zilentzap
      @zilentzap Год назад +27

      there are still sadly cheaters in console with many inputs, incredible how pathetic people can be

    • @AuroDHikoshi
      @AuroDHikoshi Год назад +2

      ​@zilentzap if there is a reward for something, you're going to get people going above and beyond to reach it for themselves

    • @logoncal3001
      @logoncal3001 Год назад +21

      My biggest gripe is why is it always online for SINGLEPLAYER modes? Why cant it be separate

    • @xnotasweatx
      @xnotasweatx Год назад +1

      @@logoncal3001 yeah that’s why I can’t play it anymore makes me mad lol

    • @MrJohansen
      @MrJohansen Год назад +25

      GT7 isn't always online in an effort to prevent cheating, it's always online in an effort to make more money from microtransactions.

  • @Synystr7
    @Synystr7 Год назад +1

    I love it how, in AC, there is a checksum that checks values of the files of the incoming user to the files stored on the server. So, unless everyone is cheating because they are all running the same cheat, no one is. Simple.

    • @ethanrandall3005
      @ethanrandall3005 Год назад

      You think you can't program the game to send a fixed value instead of a live checksum?

  • @GreenCrayons
    @GreenCrayons Год назад +4

    It's a part of a broader problem with online gaming in general. If you're so inclined just do a simple search for cheats or hacks for online games and if even half of them are legitimate it paints a grim picture. And those are just public operating in broad daylight sites, i'm sure there are privately made ones as well.

    • @sameerdodger
      @sameerdodger Год назад

      While it is, this is an esport in which prize money is concerned. Gaming is for fun, even if competitive. However sport is professional. To be professional it must at the very least be fair game. If sports involved inherent cheating nobody would even bother.

  • @lockinzombiedingdong9526
    @lockinzombiedingdong9526 Год назад +1

    As if they would ban 70% drivers it would kill of every sponsorship and fans

  • @TheLockbeard
    @TheLockbeard Год назад +19

    Jimmer is now the Coffeezilla of sim racing. Great unbiased reporting

  • @smokeybarr
    @smokeybarr Год назад +2

    Exactly the same is currently happening in Escape from Tarkov, and I suspect almost all other multiplayer games.

  • @CrunchyMotorsport
    @CrunchyMotorsport Год назад +16

    Imagine Jimmer become the GOAT because he doesn't hack bur everybody else does.

    • @SteffenHansen1973
      @SteffenHansen1973 Год назад

      Jimmer already is my GOAT - just like, you know, saying ( :

  • @Pascaffa
    @Pascaffa Год назад +56

    9:16 the logic is actually reasonable. If you yourself do not think that the time is possible, than how did you get it?

    • @Lord_Lambert
      @Lord_Lambert Год назад +15

      When it comes to F1 esports, it's not people saying "Ronhaar matched my time therefore cheating" its "Ronhaar is achieving times that aren't possible.
      Remember he was 0.2 faster than P2 when P2 was 0.2 faster than P20!

    • @generalguilmon6719
      @generalguilmon6719 Год назад +2

      I think the hypothetical situation here is that an unknown person sets a new record, and gets called out by a long time player. The experienced player has spent many hours practicing, racing, and making setups, and as a result they managed to set a good time trial lap. How would an unknown person (with no experience in esports races, not part of a team, never had a record before) beat that time? It's possible that an unknown young talent appears, but you'd expect someone to slowly make their way up, instead of immediately beating esports-level lap times.

  • @TedBouskill
    @TedBouskill Год назад +1

    I've worked on anti-cheating technology for Electronic Arts. Any game downloaded to the PC can be modded unless you use the best technology from a company like Denuvo that we used to stop piracy on FIFA 16. It's pricey to use so game companies avoid using it. They want to sell games.
    From what we could see in the data, at least 50% of top players in any game cheat when there's money and pride involved.

  • @RedAndy54
    @RedAndy54 Год назад +5

    Hey Jimmer. Do you have similar concerns about your Team87 competition at all? It's such a great initiative, it would be a shame if the competition was distorted in the same way as seems to be happening in esports.

  • @ReginaldStaples
    @ReginaldStaples Год назад +2

    The only way to make this fair is to provide the same equipment via a 3rd party at the time of the event. So every machine is exactly the same (minus the config for each driver's preferences). But that would cost money and they are too busy making it. lol

  • @NGC-7635
    @NGC-7635 Год назад +12

    Imagine you're watching a F1 esport race and suddenly the P2 car fires a red shell at the P1 car and it just explodes. That's the kind of cheating I want to see.

  • @EenGamer.
    @EenGamer. Год назад +1

    As a gta player 70% are rookie numbers

  • @coliimusic
    @coliimusic Год назад +2

    Jimmy Broadbent: Praga Cup Champion, iRacing Le Mans and Daytona winner, Racing Organization Founder, Award-winning Streamer, and now, Sim Racing Investigative Journalist

  • @d34thnote79
    @d34thnote79 Год назад +4

    What I hate the most about this discussion is that Codemasters will probably just slap some well-known anti-cheat like Battleye or whatever would be relevant for the F1 game and call it a day. And so will the community thinking that if the game shows a "Battleye" icon to you during the loadscreen then it's surely impossible to cheat
    On the other side of the spectrum you have developers of games like The Cycle: Frontier who, when the cheating became rampant, put up walls on walls upon walls of different anti-cheats. Ones they tell you they use and ones they don't. Along with other counter-measures like a ranking system it worked, but that's because they genuinely cared to get on top of that situation and hired people specializing in this field
    Codemasters have already proven they don't give two shits. Words and declarations don't matter, actions do - and we see the whole extent of their actions laid out right in front of us. It is 2023 and their EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE game series supported by the official F1 has an anti-cheat measure so useless you can sum up how it works in a single short paragraph. That's how much they care. I really hope people will surprise me and not just take Battleye as THE answer to the problem, because to truly make codemasters invest into this enough to make cheating actually hard they will need A LOT of pushing from the community. After all they haven't even acknowledged the problem yet as their precious little image is too much of a priority for them to as much as mention that cheating in their games is possible and they are actually working on it, hiring specialists for example
    I want the reality to prove me wrong but I really worry that once cheating in the next F1 games becomes just a tiny bit harder than literally typing "f1 22 grip hack" into Google people will call it a day, because now you need to go to the 2nd page of google results or even join a discord server with thousands of cheaters there(often paying ones) - like Rust has for example. As as far as I know Rust devs put in some anti-cheater work in, yet it's still fairly common to see them there
    Battleye or an equivalent would be a step in the right direction, but it won't cut it.

    • @clockdva20
      @clockdva20 Год назад

      Combating Cheats is very hard as history as proven.
      Several other EA games have well known cheating issues Battlefields and Modern Warfare . Along with games like GTA online or Counter Strike.
      There are just so many levels and ways to cheat.

    • @d34thnote79
      @d34thnote79 Год назад

      @@clockdva20 poor battlefields 4 and 1.. I love these games but..
      It is a lot worse in Bf1, I'm not sure but doesn't that game NOT have fully community moderated servers? If that is the case then WHAT A SURPRISE that cheating there is easier

  • @thommes6471
    @thommes6471 Год назад +1

    There's one more thing i don't understand.
    If the Cheats are directly thrown into the game files, why don't the racing leagues (like PSGL) make a rule that you HAVE to Stream your POV to either Twitch (if they're streamers) or to a guy monitoring on Discord. Obviously screen share on Discord, not only the game.
    Then after the Race the drivers have to leak the game files immediately without hiding scenes or censoring stuff.
    edit: i wrote this comment halfway through the video and that idea was mentioned towards the end. My point still stands. Looking forward to LAN Events to get some clarity through all this bullshit

  • @rideorfly13
    @rideorfly13 Год назад +3

    I really hope we don’t find out that for some reason there are sanctioned cheaters! Money corrupts and who knows who could benefit from a cheater

    • @VitorShadowSouza
      @VitorShadowSouza Год назад +3

      I'm pretty sure about ESports teams aware of their drivers cheating. I will not say any name to avoid problems, but I'm sure.

  • @neonblack211
    @neonblack211 Год назад +1

    reminds me of the situation with escape from tarkov right now.... one of their developers unanimously came out and basically gave a five point list of how cheating could be almost completely stopped but of course they're never going to do that

  • @fr3gl3ss54
    @fr3gl3ss54 Год назад +4

    Surly creating an Anti Cheat should not be that hard if the physics are deterministic. Run the physic calculation on the server and compare them with the client. If they dont Match, someone has changen values.

    • @foch3
      @foch3 Год назад

      It seems like this would be low hanging fruit for AI

  • @nachof248
    @nachof248 Год назад +1

    the problem is the game itself, the cheats fixes the ridiculous "realism" that made it unplayable

  • @orellaminx3530
    @orellaminx3530 Год назад +1

    3:50 This only applies to public cheats. Anything a person is using in a serrious comp environment is going to be a paid for, private or semi-private cheat, which absolutely do store user info about everyone who uses them. You'd be surprised how often pro's from all games get blackmailed.

  • @mgers75
    @mgers75 Год назад +13

    Jimmer becoming the @coffeezilla of esports scandals!

    • @RdTrpBrgr
      @RdTrpBrgr Год назад +2

      he should start saving up for that $10M studio!

    • @danielo7985
      @danielo7985 Год назад

      Relax haha, he's made an 11 min video based upon a subreddit thread of a guy who claimed to be the maker of a hack mod, there was no vetting process.
      He could be a 12 year old for all we know. Liked the Jarno interview though

  • @eidodk
    @eidodk Год назад +2

    The point, that he's stating about "If you accuse someone of cheating, just because he beats you, then you would have to be cheating yourself" is ABSOLUTELY massively accurate. Think about it. You'll HAVE to have an ego the size of jupiter to think you are automatically better than someone you don't otherwise know.

  • @daniellee4003
    @daniellee4003 Год назад +8

    Not watched yet, but just to note: take absolutely everything the guy said on Reddit with a massive grain of salt. There's no doubt that he's what most developers would call "a script kiddie": someone with little knowledge, but enough bruteforce time and searched forum threads to have picked up how to do the basics.
    As such he actually has absolutely no idea how much people cheat in F1 esports, and very little idea what issues exist and are exploited by other cheats that are out there (and as such, also has no idea how the situation should be fixed).
    The people who are actually capable at producing cheats & know all about this stuff turn it into their full-time jobs: they don't give cheats or info out for free.

    • @bigredracingteam9642
      @bigredracingteam9642 Год назад

      Yeah, it's seemingly just a CE script and a console app (the 178(!) lines of code mentioned in the video, which he admits he got ChatGPT to write for him, lol) that suspends the game process while the patches are injected.
      To your last point, I'm sure there are many hobbyists out there with such skills who don't at all fancy having a full-time job reverse engineering games. I mean, just because you're able to change the crank shaft on your own car doesn't mean you want to be a full-time mechanic.
      Edit: Having read a bit more about this, some nutters have apparently paid 90 Euro for such a cheat (which reportedly contained malware) before finding this free one, while others have bought a subscription for 50 Euro a month! This is SO insane!

  • @ped0000
    @ped0000 Год назад +2

    The fact they dont use cockpit view i consider cheating and how its not compulsory is pathetic from the organsiers. A simulation should be as close as you can get to being real. Allowing the above cockpit cam is as stupid as the decisions we see from the FIA every race weekend.

  • @randomcallsign
    @randomcallsign Год назад +3

    randomcallsign here: maybe

  • @hobinrood710
    @hobinrood710 Год назад +1

    Developers put cheats in. Or else it wouldn't be a thing at all.
    But for a competition, it's wrong.
    To solve it, have everyone in the same location.

  • @pablitopnl
    @pablitopnl Год назад +7

    From shed dweller to RUclipsr to racecar driver, and now investigative journalist. He’s growing up so fast!

  • @Conical_Diabolo
    @Conical_Diabolo Год назад +1

    Its all games that have online competitions. The companies do not want to stop the cheaters because most of them are streamers, or people who are gonna bring eyes to the product they are selling.

  • @carefree-flyer
    @carefree-flyer Год назад +6

    I'm here for Jimmy's slow transition into an investigative journalist

  • @ivandovadzija2542
    @ivandovadzija2542 Год назад +1

    I'm just here for the drama. I don't own a sim setup or any sim racing games (no money), but I am invested to see how this will end and unravel. Keep us updated.

  • @FearlessLeader2001
    @FearlessLeader2001 Год назад +6

    The sheer happiness I feel whenever my hatred of Formula 1 and F1 Esports is validated. It's so good knowing I was always right lol.

  • @truk5161
    @truk5161 Год назад +1

    Cheating in most multiplayer games is an epidemic.

  • @shaun_sharlev
    @shaun_sharlev Год назад +6

    This should automatically make anyone not cheating feel faster than they were

  • @McNab1986
    @McNab1986 Год назад +1

    The thinking it's not possible to go faster is understandable, I'm normally around 1-2 seconds off of alien pace on iracing, and it baffles me how they get the time outta the car like they do. So I can understand that same viewpoint, when you genuinely are one of the fastest, and all of a sudden you're being beaten by a tenth or two, I imagine the mindset is probably amplified tbf

  • @forey121
    @forey121 Год назад +3

    Having worked at multiple video game companies, the possibility of Alvaro being tasked by a security/game dev team and the esports team not being aware does not surprise me at all

    • @mclarensaleenf7
      @mclarensaleenf7 Год назад

      I was 99% sure it was a bs excuse when he made that tweet. Surely EA already knows every possible weakness and how these mods are able to be implemented. It doesn’t take a top level player to know the game can be modified, and definitely is at this point. The crazy thing to me is the dev companies don’t seem to care AT ALL! Surely they could release a patch that closes up this specific hole. And the most absurd part is the insane prize money of F1 esports in addition to big F1 teams backing the players. You’d think those teams would have enough power to fight for a fair esports environment. But they may even be well aware of the cheating and possibly encouraging using it.

    • @chrisc3825
      @chrisc3825 Год назад

      Yeah, let’s be honest - a coder wants to know how it works technically. They have no interest in what lap times you can achieve with it. They can load it up themselves and play with it if they want. Having a fast person use it does nothing to confirm if something works. It’s also not their job to figure out who is cheating. It’s their job to figure out how this works and stop it from working. It’s on the tournament organizers to deal with the drivers.

  • @yoloswaggins1579
    @yoloswaggins1579 Год назад +1

    Seems like nowadays before you get into literally any new game, you have to chose not based on the game itself, but rather how many cheaters there are. Gaming is dying honestly.

  • @robwalker4452
    @robwalker4452 Год назад +6

    This video made me feel awesome! I thought I was just a slow simracer, but it turns out everyone else is cheating!

    • @bigredracingteam9642
      @bigredracingteam9642 Год назад

      As only 1000 people have downloaded this cheat I don't think so. (It's hard to tell if you were joking because I've seen many people making such accusations when in reality they're just slow.)

  • @SpiderMax95
    @SpiderMax95 Год назад

    trackmania had a similar incident were a guy who was very vocal on forums about cheating ended up cheating himself to get world record times on multiple tracks by slowing down the ingame speed and basically playing in slowmotion.

  • @cjskater2006
    @cjskater2006 Год назад +3

    I would hesitate to take this cheat creator's word. Cheaters tend to jump through a lot of hoops to justify their cheat usage, so something like the "70% of the pros might have cheated" line is a red flag to me. Even if I also think there's a cheating problem in racing games.

  • @Xx121_Xenomorph
    @Xx121_Xenomorph Год назад +2

    I've been thinking this for a long time but I'm glad more people are starting to come round to the idea that this is happening! And to think people are winning money through this exploit is crazy great video Jimmy 💯

  • @SJ-ub3il
    @SJ-ub3il Год назад +6

    lets go when ur feeling down blonde jimmer posts

  • @rhodrambles3943
    @rhodrambles3943 Год назад +1

    I would love to have this Modder change the mod in the middle of a Esport event to make it obvious that people are cheating. Like in real F1 when they realised that teams were detecting the signal sent to the starting lights before they went off and not doing starts properly, so they sent the signal without the lights going off and caught the teams cheating.

  • @built2jzlexus496
    @built2jzlexus496 Год назад +7

    I watch a fair amount of F1 esports and league races and I always found it suspicious that almost anybody that drove a Mclaren was faster than Jarno

    • @maxb148
      @maxb148 Год назад +1

      Well I guess you haven't watched esports because if you did you would know all the cars are set to equal so being in a McLaren is not different to a Merc, Williams or Red Bull

    • @built2jzlexus496
      @built2jzlexus496 Год назад

      @@maxb148 I kno all the cars are equal which proves my point

  • @Synystr7
    @Synystr7 Год назад +1

    All that would need to be done is have a program that checks the values against the server every time someone joins, or hell, every half second while they are joined. And obviously have a redundancy from the server that checks if the person's anti-cheat is turned on. If the server detects that it isn't turned on, immediate boot.

  • @0xGRIDRUNR
    @0xGRIDRUNR Год назад +4

    while the cheats sounded straightfoward with the simple bypass, im 100% positive that they still took a massive amount of time to develop due to the fact that you would have to somehow figure out that whole "screenshot" thing in the first place. The modder likely says this is easy because the cheats work on older titles, as the bypass was already known.
    also the modder saying that an anticheat is easy to implement is a *disturbingly* naive take.

    • @michaelharder3055
      @michaelharder3055 Год назад +1

      Which they discovered several years ago, This is not rocket science.

    • @0xGRIDRUNR
      @0xGRIDRUNR Год назад

      @@michaelharder3055 point being that its not like finding that was easy in the first place. its just easy to implement in a newer game with the same system because of the initial work done

    • @tomh6010
      @tomh6010 Год назад

      Even discovering the snapshot would be fairly trivial because it's relatively common in various games an an anti-cheat mechanism, and any function that starts checking a bunch of config data on start-up is fairly obvious. For a decent modder this is genuinely childs play, and you can either inject modded configs by suspending the process, or create a script to load the modded configs into memory first and change the pointers for the function so it doesn't have to be suspended at all - which is sometimes needed as anti-cheat methods can monitor certain processes and detect whether they get suspended for injection.

    • @0xGRIDRUNR
      @0xGRIDRUNR Год назад

      @@tomh6010 you still have to do a substantial amount of work to view and translate the memory of a game to recognize it's doing that in the first place, then debug your injection such that it happens at the right time and persists as intended.

    • @michaelharder3055
      @michaelharder3055 Год назад

      @@0xGRIDRUNR It sounds like you massively underestimates the abilities of hackers because it sounds like a herculean effort which it most certainly was not. Some hacks comparable to this literally took a weekend to hack.

  • @EddieOtool
    @EddieOtool Год назад +1

    The real problem is not the esports itself. The problem is esport's antichamber: league racing. That's probably where the blow hurts more, because no runner-up has the feeling they can advance without cheating. Just go talk to JD and Ben what they think about that.

  • @Matty.Hill_87
    @Matty.Hill_87 Год назад +5

    Would be interesting to see if the modder could come up with something implemented into the cheats to catch out cheaters like dude did with cs:go 🤞🤣

  • @Graham6410
    @Graham6410 Год назад +1

    It's never cool for anyone to use cheats in any games.

  • @tassosesmeroglou
    @tassosesmeroglou Год назад +4

    Ah shit here we go again

  • @Theferrariguy
    @Theferrariguy Год назад +1

    Ea would be foolish not to add antichrist they even have it for fifa so surely it's not too difficult and expensive

    • @Plasticle253
      @Plasticle253 Год назад +2

      Yh Jesus has been getting too good in the redbull lately

  • @azirious666
    @azirious666 Год назад +5

    If everyone is cheating then noone is cheating

    • @ZachNovak
      @ZachNovak Год назад

      PUBG Asia server mentality 😂

  • @cmdrpain_
    @cmdrpain_ Год назад +1

    dont like the game, dont like the community. I would not be surprised if this 70% figure would be an understatement

  • @beautyisontheinside
    @beautyisontheinside Год назад +2

    The guy from reddit was a troll. In case you did not figure it out yourself. He knows nothing about cheating, programming, etc

    • @vikhr
      @vikhr Год назад

      The same guy literally said the same thing on unknowncheats. You can't even check the sources before posting lol

    • @chrisc3825
      @chrisc3825 Год назад

      Agreed. Seems suspect. Jimmer is still learning the ropes of investigative journalism.

  • @geoffsharp9611
    @geoffsharp9611 Год назад +1

    Keep pushing Jimmy. These questions need to be asked, and nobody else seems willing to do it

  • @nobodyimportant7380
    @nobodyimportant7380 Год назад

    There is a lot of truth to that statement the Modder said, If you are so confident that nobody can beat you, then you must be cheating to have that level of confidence/arrogance, because if you are legit and you can do it, do you really not accept others are as good or better?

  • @josephmatuszak3855
    @josephmatuszak3855 Год назад +5

    I feel like more people need to be slapped in public by their mothers....

    • @turbo_marc
      @turbo_marc Год назад

      I feel like you need some serious mental help....

    • @Atlas.Brooklyn
      @Atlas.Brooklyn Год назад

      We need to bring back bullying. In this case, bully the fuck out of those cheating fucks.

  • @Todjlet
    @Todjlet Год назад +1

    In cs there was a case of a cheater uploading through his personal mouse.

  • @jacksmith4460
    @jacksmith4460 Год назад +2

    In COD when I used to play comps a while back (quite a while back like 10-15 years) there was a thing called Punk Buster that would pick up on hacks/cheats and it worked really well, and the cheats in COD at the time were super easy to code, it absolutely can be done.

  • @javiazar
    @javiazar Год назад +2

    To know if a guy cheated in a qualifier after he made it to the LAN event just compare those times. It's easy.
    If the qualifier times were significantly faster than the LAN ones, then he cheated.

  • @omgdisfunny4852
    @omgdisfunny4852 Год назад +1

    just some news for everyone. there's cheaters in every match you play in any game
    07:00 some people actually have modified controllers with the code built in. this was a problem league had for a while

  •  Год назад +1

    Hi Jimmy, we have contacted you on your email, but I figured it might be worth it to leave a comment too.
    Basically, we have created a telemetry based tool that allows us to detect a person using a grip hack. We have been able to idenfity those that cheated without injecting any software into the drivers' game client. The system is not perfect, but is at least SOMETHING, as opposing to absolute lack of support in this matter from the game devs.
    I would love to get in touch with you and elaborate on that topic!
    Great video by the way, as always. There's only one thing that is not 100% true. Cheating on lan, especially in the kind of game that does not give any advantage by blatantly, for example, showing people through walls like it is in FPS games. The way of injecting cheats into the game would have to be done through the devices used by the driver. As long as the wheelbase is installing any kind of firmware on the PC (and as we all know - all of them do) it would be possible to inject a dll with the wheel drivers and even more importantly - delete them as the wheel gets unplugged. It was done in the past in other games, it could happen here too!
    Plugging the USB stick is not gonna cut it, these offline events are moderated by staff members being on stage behind the drivers, but as long as nothing else gets plugged into the PC and nothing suspicious is happening, but the wheel is still being connected... surely that gives a lot of possibilities, that is of course presuming these events are run on drivers wheels, which from feeling and comfort point of view, might very well be the case :)

  • @Hunter-th2fr
    @Hunter-th2fr Год назад +1

    Who gives a damn if he is 17, dude is playing for money, sponsorships, and more. It's unfair to the people not cheating

  • @habitatLP
    @habitatLP Год назад +1

    F1 is a pretty small game in the esports world. A small but very dedicated community that doesn't generate a lot of revenue for the developers except by buying pretty much the same game every year. Great target for cheaters because the developers are focused on the next iteration of the game instead of taking care of what is important now.

  • @RacerX888
    @RacerX888 Год назад +1

    All you need to do is check lap times for known tracks and see that people are posting ridiculously fast times which are simply impossible without modding the game and adding all kinds of traction control or driver aids. Being a minute or more faster than the known lap record for Nordschliefe or similar tracks is a big of a giveaway.

  • @Yorunatto
    @Yorunatto Год назад +1

    You know why they all tryed to cover it up. I was getting intrested in Sim Racing this Year and its been fun so far, but hearing that a lot of the Grid in the Professional League of one of the Bigger Sim Raceing ESports might be Cheating to stay competetive is really turning me off that particular ESport Title completly. I want to see Peoples hard work and training paying off on the Track and not a boring Cheat Programm doing it for them with little Efford. That might actually destroy not only the integrety of the ESports but also the Viewership in the longterm.