I don't know if you remember, but I posted a comment on your last video asking about how you make videos so quickly. Well, I don't really know why, but your response motivated me to make my first devlog for my game that day, I released the devlog yesterday and it now stands at over 19 thousand views. So I just wanted to say thank you for getting me off my butt and making that video. I've now joined the discord server, and am so excited to see where this game goes. Oh and really cool to see that you've already uploaded again, really great video!
I think platformers will remain successful at any scale, indie or AAA, but I do recognize that there has been a slight decline in the awards they receive. But that being said, even if GOTY and other nominations have declined for platformers recently, I know that there will always be an audience, and I for one will usually always enjoy them :) Great vid!
personally i doubt platformers are gonna go away just because how easy and how apliccable it is. Practically any game with a jump button can be considered a platformer and given how broad the term is, it's very easy to make your own spin on it
I played prince of Persia earlier this year and it spawned a Renaissance in my mind. Ive been on a major 2D adventure game kick because of how much I loved that game. Platforming is way better in 2D its more precise and faster. Keep up the good work!!
I’m really liking this new sort of content other than the devlogs, though I do still love them and plan on watching them whenever they come out. Is this new content going to be sticking around, or is it just filler for the time between devlogs?
I’m hoping I can manage to do a video essay like this every other week in between devlogs. So we’ll be releasing a video every week, alternating between devlogs and essays.
I, too, am an indie developer making a platformer. I do hope I still have a chance tho, as a lot of effort has gone into the game's update already lol...
I've always thought the argument that the genre is oversaturated is nonsense. The market is oversaturated with BAD platformers, but that's because they're so easy to make now. In just a few minutes, I can have a guy jumping around in a gray box room. Slap some graphics on it, and boom, you get "dev's first platformer." They toss it up onto Steam, and it's never heard of again. As you said here, the amount of tuning it takes to get your mechanics to feel just right, with all the subtleties of input buffering, coyote time, etc., takes a lot of time. And that's just mechanics. Level design, story, graphics, audio, marketing. Most of those failed games didn't have all of the work done. Just because it's easier to start a platformer than other genres doesn't make it any easier to finish one properly. It's my favorite genre to develop, and it's tough. As long as the devs aren't expecting to achieve Hollow Knight or Celeste levels of success, I think there's still plenty of room for successful games in the genre.
Love your content man. Can someone answer me this: if I select Unity to make my game, am i restricted to release it only on Steam? For console it says that you need to have the pro license, 200 dollars a month. If this is the case it is worse to use Unity (only steam) instead of Unreal (problably more than steam, not sure)?.
would probably go against marketing side of things, but It would have been cool for you to give some counter examples of more recent popular platformers (like pseudoregalia and pizza tower) that you enjoy/take inspo from if at all.
I def think that your point about celeste making a space for indie platformers instead of "showing they peaked in 2018" was valid though, I mean celeste's peak player count was in 2023 and that's when I first played it (it was also what got me into the genre)
Yeah, honestly I'll bet there are a lot of recent platformers that are fantastic. Maybe I'm just a bit out of touch, but most of my favorite platformers came out about the same time the Switch did.
You know, I’ve never been into platformers much (mostly a top down fan). Recently though, I’ve gotten the itch and started working on a castlevania inspired game, and I’m having a blast!
I get bored of seeing the same characters in platformers as much as I want to enjoy them, but I understand the need for nostalgia sometimes. I think it's good to be bold and create brand new thought out creative characters and let go of releasing old characters in new future game designs.
I do like platformers and more specifically classic platformers like Mario and Kirby; however, I don't play as many as I used to primarily because I prefer playing with my friends. Most good platformers are single player though not all. In fact, the thing I loved about Mario was it was multiplayer and could play with my brother and friends. Even with Kirby, it was the later Kirby games that I could play with friends that I loved most. I still play single-player games but as I've gotten older I much prefer to play a co-op/multiplayer game with friends over any single-player game. Though I should say I do also skew towards FPS and sandbox games more than platformers because my taste in games have changed over the years. Just got Helldivers II and I'm ready to spread democracy . Your game looks awesome and I wish-listed it. 👍
Jonas says that it's an over-saturated genre and to avoid it unless you have a REALLY unique idea to bring to the table. I tell you what man, you ever want REALLY good advice, listen to Jonas. He's quite wise. You seem very knowledgeable as well. I personally LOVE platformers.
For arguments regarding "are platformers dead" you gotta check out Chris Zukowski's stuff, he has way more data than you showed. At least sometimes he cuts out the
Thanks! While I think the 2d platformer genera is indeed crowded (if you coun't 2d action games and metroidvania), I dont think pure platformers are that commun. It's nice to add some to my list, so thanks again. @@OandCoGames
From Chris Zukowski's marketing site interesting stats ( On Steam: 2D Platformer - 5,654 games / Median $528 / Top 5% $59,420 -- Compared to Horror: Horror = 5,528 games / Median = $1544 / Top 5% $416,659 ) Platformers REALLY need to have great hooks(mechanics, presentation, story) to stand out.
Oh that’s really interesting. Thanks for sharing. It does seem platformers have more of an uphill battle based on that insight. I personally really don’t like horror games so this is a data point that challenges my assumptions. I wonder how much Five Nights at Freddy’s is skewing the data..
@@OandCoGames Yeah without looking at the stats myself, I'd assume there are a *ton* of low quality platform games lowering the averages on a much larger scale than *most* other game genres because a low quality platformer is one of the easiest games to make and release.
As a dev making a platformer for a younger audience, I’m not worried. If I get just one sale I’ll be happy. Competition does breed innovation, but I’m not looking to change the world. Nowadays, even if your game sucks, the fact that you finished it you’re ahead of 90% of other devs. I played Celeste and Hollow Knight, but they didn’t hit me like they did other people. They were fun, but in a different way. This is why I set off to make a retro-style platformer that reminds me of being a kid in the 90’s, where games were wacky and fun. P.S. I love Tethergeist.
The problem with the platformer tag is that it encompasses too many sub-genre. Metroidvania, 3d platformer, precision platformer and puzzle platformer which are mostly puzzle and rarely platformer. Someone interested in 3d platformer might not be interested in 3d platformer at all and that goes for all these category. The market is over saturated with platformer imo, and the good one often get buried under the copious amount of bad one. Game like Sunblaze, q- a neon platformer, germinal, sockventure and ghostland yard all have the polish and lenght of good platformer, but didn't make it. I do think that marketing is important though and the above mentioned game didn't have any which might be the biggest reason they failed
The short answer in my opinion is: NO ...they saied Point&Click Adventures are dead too ... but it was just back in the days everyone wanted to take the hype-train and there was an overdose ...the ppl wanted something new ...now retro stuff is more and more comin ...like pixel-art games will always be wanted and some guys found new ways for this look and feel ...like "Eastward" or "Octopath Travelor"
@@OandCoGames Yeah as a kid games are magical, like they can bring your fantasy to life. I played star wars battlefront because i loved clone troopers and skyrim made me feel like aragorn. But then as i got older as a teen my friends all played league of legends so i tagged along (disgusting i know), then hearthstone, then overwatch. All the magic of gaming quickly faded away and i became frustrated with it. No longer enjoying it but playing it ouf of obligation. Then after university Ori came along and i fell back in love with gaming. I've since played almost 70 metroidvania's and loved most of them. Adult life leaves less time so no more hundred hours+ RPG's but instead bite sized metroidvania's to fill the weekends :)
Wait, my brain is a liar. This entire time, my brain was telling me hollow knight released 2015 cuphead 2018 and Celeste in 2016. Bro, I've been around liars so much that even my brain is a liar.
The big advantage playformers have over other genres is their inherit ease of use gameplay. Almost anyone can pick up and play a platformer to some degree without needing a half hour tutorial to get you going. Personally this is what draw me to the genre. Anywho… if you’re into platformers then maybe checkout ours Little Devils.
Pre-watch Comment: I think that conventional 2d platformers don't have a good system to stand on any more. The only reason that Mario or Sonic is successful is it has been successful. To make such a big 2d platformer nowadays, you need to have a few hooks. Celeste worked because: The dash mechanic is great, and the story brings other people into the fray that might not have otherwise played it. Obviously, the more hooks you have the more likely you pull in a fish, and if you get a big hook, something so unique that everyone just *has* to play it. But at this point I think that that hook is a lot harder to come by. 3d platformers, by contrast, are more modern, which means that a: more people have their eyes on one in general, and b: there are more big hooks to find that are unique and different. That being said, to me game development is an art form and I hope that people will play games regardless of the attention they receive by larger media. Indie game dev has always been about the love of the game, so I'm sure that it won't ever fully die out.
I certainly hope that the platformer genre is not dead. My first game ( almost 4 years in the making) is a 2D platformer and it comes out in just 1 week 😅
Truth. In hindsight, I should have added a section to this video about recent successful platformers to back up my argument about interest in indie platformers being even higher now than it was in 2018.
Игры
I don't know if you remember, but I posted a comment on your last video asking about how you make videos so quickly. Well, I don't really know why, but your response motivated me to make my first devlog for my game that day, I released the devlog yesterday and it now stands at over 19 thousand views. So I just wanted to say thank you for getting me off my butt and making that video. I've now joined the discord server, and am so excited to see where this game goes. Oh and really cool to see that you've already uploaded again, really great video!
Nice, I saw your devlog when it came out. Great work!
Dude that's so awesome!! I'm glad to hear our little channel here was able to inspire. I'm going to go watch your devlog right now.
Went to your channel to watch the dev log and saw id already watched it lol. Congrats on the channel :)
Big industry platformers have been in a bad place for years now. Indie platformers, hacks and mods will never die.
Long live the Kaizo.
You are getting very good at making videos!
I think platformers will remain successful at any scale, indie or AAA, but I do recognize that there has been a slight decline in the awards they receive. But that being said, even if GOTY and other nominations have declined for platformers recently, I know that there will always be an audience, and I for one will usually always enjoy them :) Great vid!
personally i doubt platformers are gonna go away just because how easy and how apliccable it is. Practically any game with a jump button can be considered a platformer and given how broad the term is, it's very easy to make your own spin on it
I played prince of Persia earlier this year and it spawned a Renaissance in my mind. Ive been on a major 2D adventure game kick because of how much I loved that game. Platforming is way better in 2D its more precise and faster. Keep up the good work!!
You guys are awesome. Very well done!
I’m really liking this new sort of content other than the devlogs, though I do still love them and plan on watching them whenever they come out. Is this new content going to be sticking around, or is it just filler for the time between devlogs?
I’m hoping I can manage to do a video essay like this every other week in between devlogs. So we’ll be releasing a video every week, alternating between devlogs and essays.
I, too, am an indie developer making a platformer. I do hope I still have a chance tho, as a lot of effort has gone into the game's update already lol...
I've always thought the argument that the genre is oversaturated is nonsense. The market is oversaturated with BAD platformers, but that's because they're so easy to make now. In just a few minutes, I can have a guy jumping around in a gray box room. Slap some graphics on it, and boom, you get "dev's first platformer." They toss it up onto Steam, and it's never heard of again.
As you said here, the amount of tuning it takes to get your mechanics to feel just right, with all the subtleties of input buffering, coyote time, etc., takes a lot of time. And that's just mechanics. Level design, story, graphics, audio, marketing. Most of those failed games didn't have all of the work done. Just because it's easier to start a platformer than other genres doesn't make it any easier to finish one properly. It's my favorite genre to develop, and it's tough.
As long as the devs aren't expecting to achieve Hollow Knight or Celeste levels of success, I think there's still plenty of room for successful games in the genre.
Perfectly said.
Love your content man. Can someone answer me this: if I select Unity to make my game, am i restricted to release it only on Steam? For console it says that you need to have the pro license, 200 dollars a month. If this is the case it is worse to use Unity (only steam) instead of Unreal (problably more than steam, not sure)?.
Any unity devs in the chat?
would probably go against marketing side of things, but It would have been cool for you to give some counter examples of more recent popular platformers (like pseudoregalia and pizza tower) that you enjoy/take inspo from if at all.
I def think that your point about celeste making a space for indie platformers instead of "showing they peaked in 2018" was valid though, I mean celeste's peak player count was in 2023 and that's when I first played it (it was also what got me into the genre)
Yeah, honestly I'll bet there are a lot of recent platformers that are fantastic. Maybe I'm just a bit out of touch, but most of my favorite platformers came out about the same time the Switch did.
That's wild about Celeste. I didn't realize its peak player count was so recent!
@@NKCubed I didn't know that! I played Celeste for the first time midway-through 2022 so I guess I was part of it
You know, I’ve never been into platformers much (mostly a top down fan). Recently though, I’ve gotten the itch and started working on a castlevania inspired game, and I’m having a blast!
I get bored of seeing the same characters in platformers as much as I want to enjoy them, but I understand the need for nostalgia sometimes. I think it's good to be bold and create brand new thought out creative characters and let go of releasing old characters in new future game designs.
I do like platformers and more specifically classic platformers like Mario and Kirby; however, I don't play as many as I used to primarily because I prefer playing with my friends. Most good platformers are single player though not all. In fact, the thing I loved about Mario was it was multiplayer and could play with my brother and friends. Even with Kirby, it was the later Kirby games that I could play with friends that I loved most. I still play single-player games but as I've gotten older I much prefer to play a co-op/multiplayer game with friends over any single-player game. Though I should say I do also skew towards FPS and sandbox games more than platformers because my taste in games have changed over the years. Just got Helldivers II and I'm ready to spread democracy .
Your game looks awesome and I wish-listed it. 👍
Jonas says that it's an over-saturated genre and to avoid it unless you have a REALLY unique idea to bring to the table.
I tell you what man, you ever want REALLY good advice, listen to Jonas. He's quite wise.
You seem very knowledgeable as well.
I personally LOVE platformers.
For arguments regarding "are platformers dead" you gotta check out Chris Zukowski's stuff, he has way more data than you showed. At least sometimes he cuts out the
What is the game at 6:23? Looks fun and I don't know that one
Arinn. It’s a Celeste-like. I really enjoyed the demo from Nextfest
Thanks! While I think the 2d platformer genera is indeed crowded (if you coun't 2d action games and metroidvania), I dont think pure platformers are that commun. It's nice to add some to my list, so thanks again. @@OandCoGames
For the algorithm: What’s you guys’ favourite candy?
Mine is gummy bears
Hehe the almighty algorithm. I like Australian licorice.
now I know what to comment. I am a chocolate connoisseur and I usually eat chocolate chips a lot
From Chris Zukowski's marketing site interesting stats ( On Steam: 2D Platformer - 5,654 games / Median $528 / Top 5% $59,420 -- Compared to Horror: Horror = 5,528 games / Median = $1544 / Top 5% $416,659 ) Platformers REALLY need to have great hooks(mechanics, presentation, story) to stand out.
Oh that’s really interesting. Thanks for sharing. It does seem platformers have more of an uphill battle based on that insight. I personally really don’t like horror games so this is a data point that challenges my assumptions. I wonder how much Five Nights at Freddy’s is skewing the data..
@@OandCoGames Yeah without looking at the stats myself, I'd assume there are a *ton* of low quality platform games lowering the averages on a much larger scale than *most* other game genres because a low quality platformer is one of the easiest games to make and release.
As a dev making a platformer for a younger audience, I’m not worried. If I get just one sale I’ll be happy. Competition does breed innovation, but I’m not looking to change the world. Nowadays, even if your game sucks, the fact that you finished it you’re ahead of 90% of other devs.
I played Celeste and Hollow Knight, but they didn’t hit me like they did other people. They were fun, but in a different way. This is why I set off to make a retro-style platformer that reminds me of being a kid in the 90’s, where games were wacky and fun.
P.S. I love Tethergeist.
I love everything about this comment.
Sheepy just came out last week, a fun little platformer :D
I'll check it out!
I read that as "I am sleepy and this video just came out this week, fun little platformer"
The problem with the platformer tag is that it encompasses too many sub-genre. Metroidvania, 3d platformer, precision platformer and puzzle platformer which are mostly puzzle and rarely platformer. Someone interested in 3d platformer might not be interested in 3d platformer at all and that goes for all these category.
The market is over saturated with platformer imo, and the good one often get buried under the copious amount of bad one. Game like Sunblaze, q- a neon platformer, germinal, sockventure and ghostland yard all have the polish and lenght of good platformer, but didn't make it.
I do think that marketing is important though and the above mentioned game didn't have any which might be the biggest reason they failed
The short answer in my opinion is: NO ...they saied Point&Click Adventures are dead too ... but it was just back in the days everyone wanted to take the hype-train and there was an overdose ...the ppl wanted something new ...now retro stuff is more and more comin ...like pixel-art games will always be wanted and some guys found new ways for this look and feel ...like "Eastward" or "Octopath Travelor"
As a kid i played rpgs and shooters, now i play metroidvania's
I love that
@@OandCoGames Yeah as a kid games are magical, like they can bring your fantasy to life. I played star wars battlefront because i loved clone troopers and skyrim made me feel like aragorn. But then as i got older as a teen my friends all played league of legends so i tagged along (disgusting i know), then hearthstone, then overwatch. All the magic of gaming quickly faded away and i became frustrated with it. No longer enjoying it but playing it ouf of obligation. Then after university Ori came along and i fell back in love with gaming. I've since played almost 70 metroidvania's and loved most of them. Adult life leaves less time so no more hundred hours+ RPG's but instead bite sized metroidvania's to fill the weekends :)
Wait, my brain is a liar. This entire time, my brain was telling me hollow knight released 2015 cuphead 2018 and Celeste in 2016. Bro, I've been around liars so much that even my brain is a liar.
😂
The big advantage playformers have over other genres is their inherit ease of use gameplay. Almost anyone can pick up and play a platformer to some degree without needing a half hour tutorial to get you going.
Personally this is what draw me to the genre.
Anywho… if you’re into platformers then maybe checkout ours Little Devils.
The only genre in gaming that feels like the same copy and paste are fps and especially tactical fps games.
lol fair point
Pre-watch Comment: I think that conventional 2d platformers don't have a good system to stand on any more. The only reason that Mario or Sonic is successful is it has been successful. To make such a big 2d platformer nowadays, you need to have a few hooks. Celeste worked because: The dash mechanic is great, and the story brings other people into the fray that might not have otherwise played it. Obviously, the more hooks you have the more likely you pull in a fish, and if you get a big hook, something so unique that everyone just *has* to play it. But at this point I think that that hook is a lot harder to come by. 3d platformers, by contrast, are more modern, which means that a: more people have their eyes on one in general, and b: there are more big hooks to find that are unique and different.
That being said, to me game development is an art form and I hope that people will play games regardless of the attention they receive by larger media. Indie game dev has always been about the love of the game, so I'm sure that it won't ever fully die out.
Don't worry, Silksong will come out and revive the genre any day now... surely....
lol any day now...
any day. ₐₙᵧ 𝒹ₐᵧ ₙₒ𝓌.
I certainly hope that the platformer genre is not dead. My first game ( almost 4 years in the making) is a 2D platformer and it comes out in just 1 week 😅
wheres the trailer?
Yeah, this genre isn't going anywhere. Alive and well :)
@@adon155 it's called Promenade. We got lucky and our 2nd trailer got released on Playstation official channel yesterday 😁🍀
pizza tower
Truth. In hindsight, I should have added a section to this video about recent successful platformers to back up my argument about interest in indie platformers being even higher now than it was in 2018.
oo I was early
yeah, no
lol as in, "yeah, no they're not dying"?
for the algorithm, what is the best type of bread? I'll go first: garlic bread. it is delicious
Homemade sourdough
@@OandCoGames but have you had homemade sourdough garlic bread? that is the best of every world in the universe
that was my favorite though
@@nicooftheforest oooo I haven't. It sounds heavenly.
@@OandCoGames it is absolutely amazing
Second (I’m gonna edit this comment later
4 hours...
Mario odyssey is not platfrom
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Odyssey#:~:text=In%20contrast%20to%20the%20linear,64%20and%20Super%20Mario%20Sunshine.