We found a Ropeman1 with ribbed teeth. It broke the dynamic rope at 4.95kN, less than the micro traxion. instagram.com/p/CoObDl9pntX/. Our quickies usually end up here on the Clips subchannel FYI www.youtube.com/@hownot2clips. Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
@@briancresson2610 after seeing this it sort of confirms what i knew and makes me want to switch to or add in the system something like a rescuescender above my IDS. OSHA makes us run 2 ropes when doing work, so its ultimately not an issue, but still.. Id prefer striving for a perfect system even though it would be damn touch to over shock both systems without any work hazard catastrophic failures incurring.
@@RainBoxRed I don't know if it is still available, but at one point Petzl actually did that. TL;DR : It really screwed up the rope without the absorber, with one it only left minor damage.
Literally my favorite YT notification to get.. You probably have one of the few channels I'll watch no watter what comes on... Because if not entertaining, I'm learning something or both
0:41 Roman test 0:48 Roman result 6.12 kN 0:50 Similar to Jumar Test 0:57 Jumar result 7.15 kN 0:59 Micro traction test 1:08 Micro trac result 7.15 kN 1:27 Gibbs test 1:35 Gibbs result 11.73 kN 1:40 GriGri test 1:50 GriGri result 8.78 kN
It would be nice to see how those devices are doing in icy conditions. I have CT rollnlock without sharp spikes (like the Gibbs in this video) because it meant to do well with ice on the rope.
holy smokes the tibloc will absolutely destroy the rope bevause it doesnt have the feather mechanism. At least the micro generates some force with the feather.
Yeah man the thing about tiblock is it can slide and skin the rope depending on how you do it it’s a good ascender and does it’s job but it’s 40 bucks not for daily use for sure but will get you up
@@shred_meister Thing is I'd say for the weight there is soooo much better ascenders. Like why not carry a trax? Its literally so light and is so much safer and a lot nore versatile as well. A nobrainer
That Gibbs is mostly seen in the industrial / rescue sector. Gibbs has models for cable ascension as on fixed ladders . I personally own several for rope and for cable . I like the gibbs units . Great video Guys !!!!!!!!!!!!
Ryan, what about the Climbing Technology Roll'n'Lock? It has a very different cam/ridges than the Microtraxion, and seems a very good choice as a progress capture device, maybe you could test it out in this scenario as well? I know a few people who use it for rope soloing
I remember an old video, done in England if I recall, that tested industrial fall arrest devices in a drop tower. They all failed, and then they tested an old style Rescucender, and it was the only one to pass, but it is not a fall arrest device! a distinct problem with the Rescucender is dirty rope. Once the cam starts to wear, that nice radius on the rope contact undulations becomes a sharp edge. Good news, bad news: its very easy to inspect, but its a judgement call for when to replace. Other bad news, Petzel bought the design from Rock Exotica, the original maker. Petzl has come up with a replacement with captive mechanics, but an inferior rope path. Petzl did not relinquish the rights to the old design, so Rock Exotica can not make them under their own name.
Hey Guys there’s a CE Standard 353-2 and if the device is stamped it has passed a Factor 1 or 2 (sorry I cant remember without looking it up) with a 100kg load and is suitable for industrial back up device and suitable for 2 people in a rescue scenario
I know someone who took a factor 2 directly on to his partner’s Grigri with a brand new rope and it did indeed rip the sheath. .2 cam blew during the fall. Yes he should have backed up the first piece.
This is random and you’ve probably already tested it, but I’d be interested in seeing what a Connecticut tree hitch breaks/slips at. Also a surgeons knot with dyneema around a tree would be sick. Keep up the good work, your videos are awesome!!
Its been shown that non-toothed ascenders like the Gibbs ascender will strip the rope at 5kN as well. This has been well established in tests. So the more aggressive toothed devices are not much different.
Gibbs ascenders used to be used in rope rescue as a back up belay device and would outright break the static rope in dynamic drop tests at not much greater than 5kN.
Is there a difference to how force impacts a rope when achieved dynamically (taking a TR solo fall with slack out) vs slowly/gradually (as in your tests)?
As and arborist I have been using a gibbs 4sb rope grab on a 3/4 inch bull line to pull over trees. After putting 3 guys on a 25:1 I started thinking about the breaking or slipping point?. I know an eye to eye will fail at this point. Please help!!!
Ryan, I have been binge watching your videos and they have encouraged me to get back into climbing so much so my girlfriend wants to learn with me. Great and very useful content. Thank you.
another question. i dont know if you can get those in the US but edelrid makes some ropes with sheaths partly made out of aramid would be so interesting to see if those perform better than other ropes
I own two of these Edelrid Swift Protect ropes, 70M x 8.9mm, bought in 2020 at REI Boulder. Yes, Ryan, please test one of these ropes with Aramid in the sheath!
Have you ever done a "stored in a closet" video measuring strength retention of unused equipment not exposed to sunlight? Or does equipment kept for emergency use need to be replaced even if unused?
Depends on the gear, and the conditions of the area it’s stored in. Most climbing gear could last 20 years in a closet if cleaned before it’s next use.
@@wmsatic Manufacturers also recommend replacing your rope after 10 “hard whips”. Yet taking literal hundreds of whips is totally fine. It might go against their guidelines.. but….
Would love to see testing on the taz lov2 and or 3. I have been using this for top rope solo and for roof work for several years as it’s an all in one device . Really want to know it’s behaviour at its limits and where those limits are .
Once I abseiled from a large concrete road bridge at night using head torches with my friend. I went first. Half way down I started swinging around on the rope. My friend followed me and we ran away from the scene. It wasn't until we got home I inspected the rope and it was 2/3rds shredded through from my swinging attempts. My friend had abseiled a 300ft bridge on a thread. I never told him a thing.
I was looking around for a foot en knee ascender (arborist use)en do not love the idea/device's with te teeth just for the reason they going to be obvios hard on the rope. I find the NOTCH EQUIPMENT : NOTCH JET STEP FOOT ASCENDER and this one has cams instead of teeth. of course the question is how this device performs with its cams and the rest of its construction form. (in arborist use these are normally not going to take a fall (and the generated forces of a fall) on theme...) they are just to ascend you as a person and the material on you. (your body is protected against falling by another device). thanks for your many test and experiment work, learned a lot and sometimes go back to look at certain things again. Greetings David
get a toothed ascender, or a Gibbs ascender. People everywhere used toothed ascenders and it does no rope damage so long as you're not taking whippers on it, which you couldn't on arborist rope anyway because your harness would break your back before the ascender de-sheaths the rope
I've got a rollnlock. It has grooves rather than teeth. I've just retired it when I discovered it won't bite on a weighted rope. Do you want it for testing?
I second a lot of others that you should definitely test the Taz Lov 2 or 3. I think it's considered the gold standard in TRS these days, and it's what ive started using (with an extended microtrax as backup)
Is that Gibbs ascender not the 12mm + version? I think it is and if so, that is likely why it did so well on a smaller diameter rope than it’s designed.
All the devices (except the Gibbs) pull directly on the sheath and it breaks at around 5 kN, leaving the core intact. I guess you'd get a much higher result if you used a Unicore rope.
Is the failure mode here the rope sheath itself failing? If this thing is gripping the sheath not the core (unlike a knot which involves the whole rope) then maybe it's just that the sheath is doing all the work?
the prusik slips before it breaks and would have a real tough time de-sheathing a rope, depends on the material but generally the prusik is smaller and tends to be weaker than the main line. halve your prusiks untied rating and if thats less than your shock load youll just have some good bruises, unless you rig it to do more violence to your body. your body prolly the weakest link in that system.
I missed an introduction on this video. I still don't really understand what these devices are used for and whether these results are worryingly low or not
Could you do a test on shock absorbers? I hear people say different things and didnt find answers in the manual myself.. when does the sewing in the shock absorber start tearing is my question... Via Ferrata slings are in the range of 40-120 kg, some tell me it starts to rip open on 120 kg, than ill assume the absorbica wich goes to 180 and 240 starts to rip open on respective loads!? I might be able to get hold on some old tearing slings wich i think is rated 50-120kg to send over
Obviously there are PLENTY of uses for old rope buuuttt... Does anyone have any good ideas on where I might get my hands on retired rope? I'd like to use it for a crochet project!
I hate it when a toothed rope puller smags a few fibres out of a perfectly good rope - it just looks bad - obviously the result of improper use, still it feels uncomfortable.. Would be great to gave a grigri partnered ascender for common use... (hopefully it won't de-sheath, maybe Prusiks and Klemheists aren't obsolete after all.). As no man or couple weigh more than ~ "3kN", controlled slip at 3-5kN provides significant deceleration (10-20kN breaks bodies) for a falling body (hitting the ground at significantly less than freefall speed is an advantage - super good enough = wedging rope into a "U/V groove" without point loading will definitely reduce sheath damage - like how a rope puller wheel works - the rope wedges in around the wheel (sure, there are grooves on the drum..)..
You should talk much more about the area under the force curve instead of the peak force! Some devices are capable to absorbe much more energy before the rope will break......
We found a Ropeman1 with ribbed teeth. It broke the dynamic rope at 4.95kN, less than the micro traxion. instagram.com/p/CoObDl9pntX/.
Our quickies usually end up here on the Clips subchannel FYI www.youtube.com/@hownot2clips.
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
my tower company just switched to the ASAP, and I've been on the fence about them, so yeah these videos are so on point for us.
I use a Ropeman1 exclusively for top rope soloing (with modified GriGri backup) Yikes! Can’t say I’ve taken any big falls 😅
@@briancresson2610 after seeing this it sort of confirms what i knew and makes me want to switch to or add in the system something like a rescuescender above my IDS. OSHA makes us run 2 ropes when doing work, so its ultimately not an issue, but still.. Id prefer striving for a perfect system even though it would be damn touch to over shock both systems without any work hazard catastrophic failures incurring.
cant wait for CT roll n lock
btw, i like longer videos with more detail and explanation
Imo a purposeful quickie adds to your effectiveness. Seeing that Grigri was very interesting. Bravo.
Would love to see how the Petzl ASAP fall arrestor stacks up as far as desheathing and catching a shock load.
Given that a shock absorber device is required for most (of not all) safe riggings using an ASAP we might have a fairly good idea already…
@@DrewNorthup Test it in both configurations?
@@RainBoxRed I don't know if it is still available, but at one point Petzl actually did that.
TL;DR : It really screwed up the rope without the absorber, with one it only left minor damage.
Really nice videos!
Appriciate it, especially the arborist ones.
Cheers from a hungarian arborist from Switzerland!
Literally my favorite YT notification to get.. You probably have one of the few channels I'll watch no watter what comes on... Because if not entertaining, I'm learning something or both
0:41 Roman test
0:48 Roman result 6.12 kN
0:50 Similar to Jumar Test
0:57 Jumar result 7.15 kN
0:59 Micro traction test
1:08 Micro trac result 7.15 kN
1:27 Gibbs test
1:35 Gibbs result 11.73 kN
1:40 GriGri test
1:50 GriGri result 8.78 kN
Love seeing sketchy Andy in videos. His mom, Lynn was my art teacher and play director in middle school! So cool seeing him still in one piece.
Knowing him, it's also shocking to see him in once piece. He tries so hard to end that streak but just keeps failing.
Thanks for all you do for the community!
Super excited for the next comparison!!!!
Gibbs! Good stuff. I used them for years to prussic out of vertical caves. Used one in Alps to follow fixed ropes..never iced up.
Great new lab!
It would be nice to see how those devices are doing in icy conditions. I have CT rollnlock without sharp spikes (like the Gibbs in this video) because it meant to do well with ice on the rope.
Hell yeah Ryan! Bring in the Arborist vids lol.
Would be super curious about the petzl Tibloc
When I hear petzle 😮😂
holy smokes
the tibloc will absolutely destroy the rope bevause it doesnt have the feather mechanism. At least the micro generates some force with the feather.
Yeah man the thing about tiblock is it can slide and skin the rope depending on how you do it it’s a good ascender and does it’s job but it’s 40 bucks not for daily use for sure but will get you up
@@shred_meister Thing is I'd say for the weight there is soooo much better ascenders. Like why not carry a trax? Its literally so light and is so much safer and a lot nore versatile as well. A nobrainer
That Gibbs is mostly seen in the industrial / rescue sector. Gibbs has models for cable ascension as on fixed ladders . I personally own several for rope and for cable . I like the gibbs units . Great video Guys !!!!!!!!!!!!
Gibbs are also used in caving, for ropewalker systems
Thank you for taking up our suggestions!!
Hey man, congratulations on your new space! Looks grrrrrrreaat!!!!!! Keep it up!!!!
Actual reliable data. Thank you!
This is such a good video for all the people that argue about rope solo devices!
Definitely like the quick format follow up!
Ryan, what about the Climbing Technology Roll'n'Lock? It has a very different cam/ridges than the Microtraxion, and seems a very good choice as a progress capture device, maybe you could test it out in this scenario as well? I know a few people who use it for rope soloing
shoulda finished the video 😏
3:36... if only you had the patience to watch ¾ of the video.
@@TheArmyKnifeNut a year later, where's the video?
Mix of short and long-form videos is my preference. Good stuff!!
I remember an old video, done in England if I recall, that tested industrial fall arrest devices in a drop tower. They all failed, and then they tested an old style Rescucender, and it was the only one to pass, but it is not a fall arrest device! a distinct problem with the Rescucender is dirty rope. Once the cam starts to wear, that nice radius on the rope contact undulations becomes a sharp edge. Good news, bad news: its very easy to inspect, but its a judgement call for when to replace. Other bad news, Petzel bought the design from Rock Exotica, the original maker. Petzl has come up with a replacement with captive mechanics, but an inferior rope path. Petzl did not relinquish the rights to the old design, so Rock Exotica can not make them under their own name.
Hey Guys there’s a CE Standard 353-2 and if the device is stamped it has passed a Factor 1 or 2 (sorry I cant remember without looking it up) with a 100kg load and is suitable for industrial back up device and suitable for 2 people in a rescue scenario
I know someone who took a factor 2 directly on to his partner’s Grigri with a brand new rope and it did indeed rip the sheath. .2 cam blew during the fall. Yes he should have backed up the first piece.
I'm your big fan.
I can't wait to see the next test video.
I use a TAZ Lov2 for rope soloing in addition to my microtraxion. Operates similar to a grigri. Would love to see a break test on that one
This is random and you’ve probably already tested it, but I’d be interested in seeing what a Connecticut tree hitch breaks/slips at. Also a surgeons knot with dyneema around a tree would be sick. Keep up the good work, your videos are awesome!!
Its been shown that non-toothed ascenders like the Gibbs ascender will strip the rope at 5kN as well. This has been well established in tests. So the more aggressive toothed devices are not much different.
Gibbs ascenders used to be used in rope rescue as a back up belay device and would outright break the static rope in dynamic drop tests at not much greater than 5kN.
Great video! I have a Microtrax and Ropeman 2 for a solo TR setup.
The quick hits are great. I love the deep dives but sometimes don't have time, so, if it's just the nub of whatever issue, that's a plus, IMO
The gri gri was quite good! Even at that good failure number, it still holds and only slowly slips. Not gonna lie, glad I used the grigri for so long.
Love the new lab! Beautiful😁
Please test the Petzl Shunt. Its completely toothless and i have seen it used for rope solo.
Bumping this! I use the Petzl Shunt for rope solo, but with a Micro Traxion as a backup because I don't know at what force a Shunt will slip at.
Is there a difference to how force impacts a rope when achieved dynamically (taking a TR solo fall with slack out) vs slowly/gradually (as in your tests)?
I had the wear plate on my Croll get to a point where it was starting to create a sharp edge. The rope and teeth were more or less fine.
Thanks again for doing arborist tools!
That Gibbs looks like a lanyard adjustor
at 4:20 he talks about testing a "diverter" with a rope and carabiner sinched. Has anyone seen this video? I can't find it.
Kong Duck please test!
Great work! Thanks and love the content 😊
As and arborist I have been using a gibbs 4sb rope grab on a 3/4 inch bull line to pull over trees. After putting 3 guys on a 25:1 I started thinking about the breaking or slipping point?. I know an eye to eye will fail at this point. Please help!!!
You could try a unicore rope if you're looking for suggestions, the sheath won't come off.
The video flashed a statement near the end that unicore ropes will be tested.
Add the clips channel to your "channels" section on youtube
Ryan, I have been binge watching your videos and they have encouraged me to get back into climbing so much so my girlfriend wants to learn with me. Great and very useful content. Thank you.
I like to see a porta wraps (bollards) and different ways of attaching to them tested. And if there is any loss of rope strength.
My palms get sweaty just hearing you guys talk about falling while climbing 😂
You should definitely add the clips channel to your "Channels" tab on the main one!
another question. i dont know if you can get those in the US but edelrid makes some ropes with sheaths partly made out of aramid would be so interesting to see if those perform better than other ropes
I own two of these Edelrid Swift Protect ropes, 70M x 8.9mm, bought in 2020 at REI Boulder. Yes, Ryan, please test one of these ropes with Aramid in the sheath!
Have you ever done a "stored in a closet" video measuring strength retention of unused equipment not exposed to sunlight? Or does equipment kept for emergency use need to be replaced even if unused?
Depends on the gear, and the conditions of the area it’s stored in. Most climbing gear could last 20 years in a closet if cleaned before it’s next use.
@@Hikergy16 Any test results to confirm? Noting manufactures recommend 10 years or less for unused.
@@wmsatic Manufacturers also recommend replacing your rope after 10 “hard whips”. Yet taking literal hundreds of whips is totally fine. It might go against their guidelines.. but….
Would love to see testing on the taz lov2 and or 3.
I have been using this for top rope solo and for roof work for several years as it’s an all in
one device . Really want to know it’s behaviour at its limits and where those limits are .
Thanks for your sharing
Once I abseiled from a large concrete road bridge at night using head torches with my friend. I went first. Half way down I started swinging around on the rope. My friend followed me and we ran away from the scene. It wasn't until we got home I inspected the rope and it was 2/3rds shredded through from my swinging attempts. My friend had abseiled a 300ft bridge on a thread. I never told him a thing.
Was it shredded from contact with the bridge?
Fun videos to watch. Have do even done a video/test on hand sewn eyes?
+1 for Edelrid Spoc. Cheers!
I was looking around for a foot en knee ascender (arborist use)en do not love the idea/device's with te teeth just for the reason they going to be obvios hard on the rope. I find the NOTCH EQUIPMENT : NOTCH JET STEP FOOT ASCENDER and this one has cams instead of teeth. of course the question is how this device performs with its cams and the rest of its construction form. (in arborist use these are normally not going to take a fall (and the generated forces of a fall) on theme...) they are just to ascend you as a person and the material on you. (your body is protected against falling by another device). thanks for your many test and experiment work, learned a lot and sometimes go back to look at certain things again. Greetings David
get a toothed ascender, or a Gibbs ascender. People everywhere used toothed ascenders and it does no rope damage so long as you're not taking whippers on it, which you couldn't on arborist rope anyway because your harness would break your back before the ascender de-sheaths the rope
New studio is looking wicked! Nice work.
Oooh can't wait for the diverter carabiner tests!
Grigri in the vertical, cache loop creates enough weight in the brake strand to prevent slipping is my understanding.
I've got a rollnlock. It has grooves rather than teeth. I've just retired it when I discovered it won't bite on a weighted rope.
Do you want it for testing?
Love the more condensed format. A little more banter would be ok though. I think ~10min video would be perfect
I second a lot of others that you should definitely test the Taz Lov 2 or 3. I think it's considered the gold standard in TRS these days, and it's what ive started using (with an extended microtrax as backup)
Yes for quicker videos! 😀
Curious about the Notch Jet Step.
It has cams like the gibbs but yeah I have one too and would love to see it.
Would be curious about some tests with the old micro traxion... on a 6mm rad line too!
Would love to see a test on the Soloist. If you can get your hands on one. No, you can't have mine.
How about adding a wild country revo into that list of devices to test!
curious about the "CT roll n lock", which has ridges, but a bit sharper than the gibbs
Anything on the Kong Duck ascenders? I use one as backup top rope solo. A lot of hunters use them for ascending deer stands. Thanks!
Is that Gibbs ascender not the 12mm + version? I think it is and if so, that is likely why it did so well on a smaller diameter rope than it’s designed.
Try a portawrap as an anchor to test ropes at full strength (no knots).
All the devices (except the Gibbs) pull directly on the sheath and it breaks at around 5 kN, leaving the core intact. I guess you'd get a much higher result if you used a Unicore rope.
Is there somewhere a test on Beal Unicore ropes vs normal dynamic rope? Would seem like this is where one would shine. Or break instead of desheating.
there is a small chance that i have made or touched that rope he is using! It was a cool manufacturing process.
I have never been rock climbing. I have zero interest in ever doing it but I watched this whole damn video for some reason lol.
How about the Petzl croll ? It is often used as a toprope solo device
Is the failure mode here the rope sheath itself failing? If this thing is gripping the sheath not the core (unlike a knot which involves the whole rope) then maybe it's just that the sheath is doing all the work?
So, this has me curious. At what force does a prussik desheath a rope?
And I'd be curious what the numbers are on 13mm rescue rope
the prusik slips before it breaks and would have a real tough time de-sheathing a rope, depends on the material but generally the prusik is smaller and tends to be weaker than the main line. halve your prusiks untied rating and if thats less than your shock load youll just have some good bruises, unless you rig it to do more violence to your body. your body prolly the weakest link in that system.
Wondering how much that one time max stress relates to continuous lighter wear in terms of wearing out the rope.
Love it, as always.
Off topic, but would you guys be up for a hardware store chain episode?
I feel like he would want to because hardware store chain doesn’t have the same quality controls as rated chain?
Yes yes yes do the carabiner around a tree branch I’m so excited
I missed an introduction on this video. I still don't really understand what these devices are used for and whether these results are worryingly low or not
Is is possible that the microtraxion would brake before shredding the rope?
I'd love to see a tibloc tested against some of these jammers
Could you do a test on shock absorbers? I hear people say different things and didnt find answers in the manual myself.. when does the sewing in the shock absorber start tearing is my question... Via Ferrata slings are in the range of 40-120 kg, some tell me it starts to rip open on 120 kg, than ill assume the absorbica wich goes to 180 and 240 starts to rip open on respective loads!? I might be able to get hold on some old tearing slings wich i think is rated 50-120kg to send over
The one that slowly slipped seems like the best bet, since you would just be slowly slipping down and could grab the wall with something
Obviously there are PLENTY of uses for old rope buuuttt... Does anyone have any good ideas on where I might get my hands on retired rope? I'd like to use it for a crochet project!
What about devices without teeth or ridges? Like the petzl shunt or grandwall uascend?
Please test the climbing technology rollnlock
Did they end up testing the Camp Lift?
the grandwall progress capture device would be cool to see tested. No teeth, just one point
I hate it when a toothed rope puller smags a few fibres out of a perfectly good rope - it just looks bad - obviously the result of improper use, still it feels uncomfortable..
Would be great to gave a grigri partnered ascender for common use... (hopefully it won't de-sheath, maybe Prusiks and Klemheists aren't obsolete after all.).
As no man or couple weigh more than ~ "3kN", controlled slip at 3-5kN provides significant deceleration (10-20kN breaks bodies) for a falling body (hitting the ground at significantly less than freefall speed is an advantage - super good enough = wedging rope into a "U/V groove" without point loading will definitely reduce sheath damage - like how a rope puller wheel works - the rope wedges in around the wheel (sure, there are grooves on the drum..)..
Can you also test twin 6mm prusiks?
Would be interesting to see a petzl shunt tested as it doesn't have teeth.
I'm not seeing the how not to clips channel, a link in the description, or adding it to the featured channels on HowNotTo would be fantastic.
Link the new channel in the "Channels" tab on RUclips, please!
If you haven't gotten a Harken Ninja, I would donate one for testing.
Could you add a Trango Cinch to the list? It’s more than likely going to slip.
If you are still taking device recommendations perhaps the dmm buddy 100 too
I wonder if the results would be different on ropes with permanent core + seath bond like the tendon tefix technology
You should talk much more about the area under the force curve instead of the peak force! Some devices are capable to absorbe much more energy before the rope will break......