I don't understand JCM900's BAD REPUTATION - Marshall JCM800 Vs JCM900
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2017
- Comparison - JCM800 VS JCM900. Marshall 2203 vs 4100. All knobs on full but bass that's about 40%, and for some riffs preamp 50%. B-channel on JCM900. Guitar tone and volume used to shape the different sounds. 2008 Gibson Les Paul 1959 Standard Reissue, 1971 Marshall 1982A with G12H-30 55Hz Pulsonic Celestion Greenbacks. Close mic Unidyne 548, room mic AKG C414BXLII omni at 10 feet. Hotplate attenuation -8db to be able to use only one cab, no EQ compensation on the Hotplate.
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I think part of the bad reputation came from tube purists not liking the SS clipping circuit in the 900, regardless of how it actually sounds. Then they all put an SS pedal in front of their tube amp. ;)
+SirVicconius Hahaha, we guitarists are a strange breed :-)
SirVicconius
You beat me to it
If I'm not mistaken, I think the last batches of the JCM 800 2203's and 2210's had a SS diode clipping circuit as well. I know this isn't present in the JCM 800 reissues.
The same purists love the Silver Jubilee because a guy named Joe plays it, which has ... wait for it ... diode clipping! Both channels. The Rhythm channel has 1N4007 symmetrical clipping and the Lead channel (Bonamassa's fav) has 1N4007 / red LED asymmetrical clipping.
not because a guy named Joe plays it. love it because it s a great amp!
I've always played and loved the 900's. I think most of the bad talk comes from people who have never actually played one.
I have both of them, the 900 is my spare one and the difference is huge between them. The 9OO doesn't have that deep "oomf" of the 800. If you compare both of them, the 900 sounds like an electronic pedal whereas the 800 sound very natural, brutal and shake your pants when playing. The 2203 can't be compared to the dual reverb which sounds like a toy if you try them with an AB box. The video can't show this.
@@elvisbraillon7297 ,
Have you tried a jumper in the effects loop on the 900?
@@2DclanSnipingTeam I tried a lot of things, in the loop, changed tubes and tried many brands (JJ, Svetlana Winged C, ...) but still sounds flat compared the brutality of the 800 which has lower gain but a thick and deep sound. I think that comes from the clipping sound of the 900.
@@elvisbraillon7297 if you put the right tube combination and bias it probably, it sounds better than the 800. Hands down
@@elvisbraillon7297 I have had both, I never found the difference to be as big as people claim to be honest. Maybe my 800 wasn't that great or something. I also had 2 verions of the 900, an SLX and a dual reverb, and I didn't think the difference between them was all that great either. Played them all through a 93 1960 A cab with CV75s.
I bought my JCM900 impulsively and love how it sounds. The fact that it's a black sheep makes me love it even more. :)
Bravo Johan for this demo. It’s in the kind video like that, where we can hear the real sound of there greats amps. Ty !
I played a JCM 900 all through the 90s in a band, recording a few CDs and many live shows. Always loved it.
I think I just like listening to you play in these videos :) Love all the information you provide in these videos. I'm a plexi/jcm 800 user myself but it is nice to hear what these sound like and have always wondered why the 900 wasn't preferred. keep these up they are great! :)
+easyfly Glad to hear it! Thanks my friend
At times the 900 sounded like an 800 with a tube screamer in front. Smoother, slightly more compressed perhaps. Still definitely a Marshall!
+xMasterxRazorx Cheers!
Love you're playing Johan.That retro feel is great.
Love your playing and reviews of vintage gear!
Thanks man, I’m really glad to hear that!
The JCM 900, especially the SL-X, is the precursor to the DSL which is my favorite Marshall. I love the JCM 900s & your video just made the prices go up on them globally, lol!
Hi buddy....Yesterday I sat and watched probably about an hour of your videos..Some I've already watched..Out of all the videos I've watched,you always get the greatest tones to video.Your riffs and playing are great also.Thx for the very informative and great videos!
I really don't understand the bad reputation either. This amp rocks! \m/
+Déus Herbert-Noel Cheers! \m/
Johan Segeborn You too. \m/
The bad rep comes from bedroom players that don't turn them up, they kill at higher volumes in a band mix, not a secret amongst players.
Yep. Thats why I tend to stay with 50W versions if I can. Even with Hiwatts as well....
All JCM series sound bad with master volume at one. I dont understand either people who buy a huge stack to bedroom and turn master volume into 1 since attenuators are available these days.
The 900s seem to have a little less low end compared to the 800. Which is of no consequence in a band mix. You want the guitar to occupy the midrange frequencies and not step on the bass. This video is showing that those occupied frequencies are more similar with the amps turned up.
True
All true, gotta turn them up, get it really hot and crank it. A stack is pointless in your bedroom. I'm still playing a 900 (100w) that i bought new in the 90's, running 6L6 tubes and it fucking crushes! Played with a lot of other guitar players and at shows with other bands and my 900 just destroys everytime.
As usual, a great video Johan. My impression is, the 800 is a bit more open sounding and the 900 is a bit more compressed. I have JCM-900 50w version. I've never used the B channel. I've always used the A channel with pedals and that combination works great, especially if you kick the gain up a bit. Just my opinion.
+Lee Syrjanen Thanks Lee!
I love this guy! I come back to this video everytime I think I gotta get a JCM 800 instead of the '93 JCM 900 I already have.
I love my 900 and always get compliments on the tone when I play in a live setting. It really sits in the mix well.
what I love about your channel, Mr Johan, is , that in your gear reviews you do not play any clean, boring, jazz-like chords progressions and also any super-fast EVH shit, but pure vintage rock riffs, and you play them with a ton of felling, which sounds great in combination with all those vintage amps. cheers man, rock on!
Yes, agree 100%. Too many guys on these comparisons videos spend the whole time running up and down the neck. I wanna hear the crunch.
Another great demo, thanks Johan! Yesterday I received a new Marshall Code 25 that I'd ordered from sweetwater. Crazy how many good sounds in that amp...and you can mix/match pre/power amps and different cabinets. I look forward to your trying one. No doubt you'll find the sweet-spot in the 10" speaker!
+Rick McCargar Thanks Rick, yeah it's about time for a Code demo here!
Excellent, after your other digital amp demos, I look forward to this.
Rick McCargar, right about the tens! I think they sound punchy and tight in the lows. got a pair of celestion 10s in a line 6 spider IV 120 combo and they got plenty'o thrust, pal! thinking about modifying the baffle on my Marshall slant to accommodate tens!
I already have a 1987X (50watt plexi reissue) with a 1960AV 4z12 cab, so I didn't want another 50 watt, and I wanted the extra ease at pushing a ten inch speaker that I'd get with the 25, and it was right on. It's a great little practice amp with a ton of great tonz.
Rick McCargar I have a 25 too! Only problem is when you go up to higher volumes it loses definition.
I was not a big fan of my 100 Watt JCM 900 Dual Reverb Combo. I took in to a repair shop and they fixed the scratchy pots. Replaced the factory tubes with JJ's and re-biased it. Now I love this amp. It's warmer and less thin sounding. It sounds great on both channels.
I have a '78 JMP 2203 and a '90s era JCM900 2100 (not the dual reverb) and I LOVE them BOTH. JCM-900s are KILLER amps
I'd never part with mine
I currently own a 1959HW reissue, but used to own both a JCM900mk3 and a DSL40c. While the 1959 is my favourite Marshall, I really do miss the JCM900. My advice is don’t be swayed by some forum dweller; go find one used and you may be pleasantly surprised.
I thought I would prefer the 800 but man that 900 sounded great. And as always your monstrous rhythm playing is amazing (I've lifted some of your rhythm licks and incorporated them into my own guitar playing :D)
+dylan beard Thanks man, you make my day! :-)
I like to listen to these comparison videos while doing other stuff around my room; and when I hear something I like, I tend to make a weird face and go check which amp is the one you are using. The 800 kept making me turn my head at the screen, but I really liked that 900 too. Great video Johan!
+Roberto Cabrera Thanks Roberto, glad to hear that :-)
I recently got a 1991 jcm 900 for free because it needs repair. It came with the 1960a jcm 800 lead cabinet, which sounds awesome. I hope the 900 is not a costly repair. Hoping to save it for many more years of use. Thanks for the informative videos you produce, they are very helpful for a newbie like me.
I like the raw grit that the 800 has in comparison to the 900. Though the 1959 super lead has it even more =)
edit. not that the 900 was any bad! I just preferred the 800.
+pikkuarska Thanks! :-)
The 800 seems more vibrant and cutting with an airier top end extension. The 900 is congested or flat by comparison but I would quickly get used to the righteous sound of either in isolation.
I agree! I liked both but the 900 seemed a little tamer.
I totally love the 900 amps. I would take a 900 over most of the stuff available these days
It ain’t just those amps. This guys got a killer tone.🎸
The JCM 900 4100 was my first Marshall. Had it for 7 years and loved it. One day I discovered a '80 2203, then I finally knew what a really good Marshall was.
Great video, as always.JCM 900 is more compressed compared to some older Marshalls ,
but it is so smooth sounding,nice tone for modern styles.This video shows that perfectly.
Cheers
+Srdjan Bošnjak Thanks Srdjan! Yeah it sounds like that to me too
Kim Mitchell used a 900 for his Itch album. Absolutely killer sounds on that one. He seemed surprised that it came out that well himself because of the 900's reputation, which it didn't have at the time the album was recorded.
World class demonstrartion and opinions! The best Marshall head I ever owned was a 1978 Marshall 2204 50-watt master volume. They got progressively worse from there but you know what - they are all Marshalls and they all sound very much the same - amazingly good!
I like the 900 better. Keep these awesome videos. I love your comparisons!
great comparison! both amazing amps. i have the 50 watt jcm 900 version. i really enjoy it. try jumping the fx loop in/out. makes it sound less compressed to my ears.
+David Dell'Angelo Thanks, yeah that's a classic :-) Cheers Johan
what do you mean by jumping the fx loop in/out?
Run a short patch cable from the preamp out jack to the power amp in jack. For some reason, you get a much clearer sound than running the amp without it.
plug a short instrument cable into the effects loop. just stick one end of the cable in the send jack and the other end in the return. it does make a difference. @@jakubgrepl3049
You're the 2nd person I've heard mention that. I'm waiting on my JCM 900 Model 4500 (50 watt) to arrive tomorrow. I'll have to give that a try.
I actually liked the JCM 900 a lot in this comparison. It has a lot of character. I've played a 900 before in a Sam Ash shop. It was super beat up, but it sounded pretty good. It's not quite the sound I go for, but it's a killer amp. A great example of their underrated tone is Rise Against. They use it on a lot of their records and live. They have a great sound!
+Eric Stigliano Cool, I have to check them out!
Johan dropping the knowledge again! Fantastic video bro! you sound like Ace with a few of those lead licks.😎
Hi Johan,
Thanks for the reply. Love the vids. I think the advantage with the 800 is you can use an overdrive to get the same vibe as the 900 but then you can switch it off and back your guitar volume and get that lovely sharp clean sound with a nice edge to it. Like schenkers on Love to Love. Sorry to digress.
Keep the videos coming, really enjoy them.
+VintageSound Thanks! You may digress all you want, especially on nice topics like Schenker :-) Cheers
I have always liked the 900 sound better. Plus it has a clean channel.
They sound very similar to me. Both have that great bite to them. The 800 has a few more teeth, more bite in the highs but I love the 900. both great amps.
Both amps sound great, and I just recently found a 900 model 4500 in a pawn shop for $150US. And this fella here is a great reviewer of these two amps. Good ol' greasy rock and roll!
Awesome deal man... Does the head need new tubes? I want a 79 jmp 2203 or a Soldano slo100
In 1994 I bought a JCM900 with cab and it was a monster! Great video and nice licks.
To me the JCM900 ironically sounds warmer and more complex in some ways. Both great amps of course. If i were to pick one it'd definitely be the 900 - I grew up with a lot of 90s music of course
The JCM900 reputation is undeservedly made from these parts:
1. Marshall pulled three filter capacitors off the 100w JCM800 in 1986 since it had a Master Volume. Preamp gain was being emphasized. Unfortunately, buyer consensus was that cranking the 100w no longer sounded as sweet
2. Marshall followed suit with more preamp gain (introducing clipping diodes), and less output gain on the 100w Silver Jubilees, since Marshall thought that players weren't playing stadiums at full volume
3. This design philosophy continued with the JCM900, JCM2000/DSL, TSL and JVM. But in the 90s, there was a backlash to "inorganic", over-processed tone -- remember, the late 80s/early 90s was the era of rack equipment -- and a return to tube amp gain (thanks to the end of the Cold War flood of affordable tubes)
4. The Celestion G12T-75, a speaker designed to be a one-size-fits-all speaker to accommodate all the modern variants of 80s rock & metal. Since 4x12 cabs were 300w, speaker compression no longer was a factor in gain tone.
5. The JCM900's heavy emphasis on preamp gain at a time when Soldano, Mesa & Peavey were leapfrogging Marshalls for black metal, while boutique amps were the rage in post-grunge rock, the JCM900 seemed to have an identity crisis
6. The 2100 version of the JCM900 was not well received over the 4100, which added to the reputation
kickinvideo333 So where does my 4500 series JCM900 50W stand? Curious if my amp had the bad board or was that the 4100?
Honestly, if you like the amp and the tone that comes from it, that's all that matters 😎👍🏼Aside from that, if there aren't any blatant problems like reliability or quirks that hinder a good experience, I wouldn't sweat it. Like I said, I think the bad rep is unjustified and really comes from a great amp that was introduced to a changing market.
Your are correct my friend. However i have a JCM 2000 and it's pure tube. Yes, too much preamp gain, but once cranked up alot of that preamp stuff disapears. it has way more gain than any 800 will ever have but still retains some of that classic sound. Now the JVM is just to thin and preamp driven. However , 800's still have the best tone and feel.
you do realize the diode Rhythm Clip on the jubilees is basically its own crunch channel right? the Lead Channel is ALL TUBE distortion, Diode Clip does not work in Lead mode, its one of those things you where you have to own it or have played it more than music stores allow to know.
Reckless Dezire There were several amps ranging in size, power and utility in the Silver Jubilee range with different circuits, but each with a clipping diode preamp stage in keeping with the historical trend. Where in the circuit the clipping stage was located isn't relevant. Marshall has a long history of great sounding, great performing amps that met the needs of the day. Perception and sometimes misperception by the buyer is usually what exalts or damns a product.
Marshall was a pioneer in solid state guitar circuitry and was bold with the Jubilee series. In the late '80s, tubes/valves were becoming scarce and Marshall had made some of the best sounding solid state circuits in the industry. Along with their MOSFET line, the Lead 12 3005 head/2x10 stack, Lead 12 5005 1x10 combo, and Lead 20 combo amps (just to name a few), Marshall also introduced The Guv'nor pedal. Silver Jubilee amps were just a natural part of a whole family of amps that moved away from the 1959 & 1987 tube head monsters.
I loved my jcm 900. Running through greenbacks or even g12h's makes it sound much more classic than the typical g12t75's
I´m totally in love with my JCM900.... sounds awesome with all my guitars...
Glad to hear it!
Yup, I definitely liked the 900 better. The sound was as rich as the 800, but more defined and not quite as muddy on chords. Plus like all Marshall amps it has that "Marshall sound" that is fairly distinctive. Great video as always!
+wigon Thanks :-)
Great comparisons, thanks for sharing. I just bought a brand new 900, very happy. It rattles teeth and nards alike!
this jcm800 has bad tubes or a blown transformer,a 900 will never have more clarity or richness of sound compared to a proper setup 800,sorry.
Funny because I hear the opposite, the 900 sounds distant and far less distinct.
wigon I've always liked the 900 and have never been huge on the 800 they are a great amp just not to my taste . I think the 900 gets more of the classic marshall tone in my opinion.
I work for a backline company in the US. The JCM900/4100 is the most requested Marshall. I'm not sure if the second is the JCM800 or one of the JCM2000s.
Interesting. Why do you think that is? One would assume an 800 would be anyone's first bet
@@mikeimmonen6619 Because it's two channels . Switch from Clean to Crunch which has way more gain than an 800.
@@guitarexpert2245 Makes sense
@@guitarexpert2245 exactly
I have a JCM800 2205 (the one with diode clipping) and i have always loved that amp since it has kind of a organic wild roaring, gritty/dirty sound that i think is a big part of what many consider the Marshall sound, i certainly do.
Watching your video made me remember what i didnt like so much about the JCM900 back when they were in production: It has a much more controlled and cleaner sound which i dont prefer myself and perhaps not typical for Marshal, i think that it may be why die hard Marshall players maybe didnt care that much for it.
Hi Johan, i really like your videos! I have owned the 4100 for more than 15 years, it was my first real beast. Finally, i sold it, because it was so heavy to carry, on stage I only used a AC15, then (so i had only one heavy piece to carry). 5 years ago, i then bought the identical, red 2203, 1995 Limited Edition, that's here in this video! It was a 'must have', because when I tested it in a 2nd hand shop, it had 'the sound' - i was thinking, i found the holy grail of sound! So the two amps in your video are the same two Marshalls i have owned! The 800 I still have, of course.
Today, from a little distance, i'd say, it has the sound i really like - for example on the record MUSH / Leatherface you can hear that same (or very similar) sound.
On the other hand, the JCM 900 really is more flexible, it deliveres more different tones, and it's very reliable, that's probably why many professional artists like to use it, beside the sound! (e.g. the mighty mighty bosstones).
Cheers
Lars
The 900 is the best amp ever made by marshall I have the 800 and the 900. The 900 is the 800 on steroids. The haters ate the 800 owners who had the best head for decades and then the 900 out did it and they went into tantrum mode instead of buying a 900. Oh and 9 out of 10 , 800 owners never played or tried out the 900. I recommend the 50 watt 900 head because you can turn the volume up louder and get the great tone without being way too loud. It's a perfect head for home and stage.
As someone who works in a vintage shop that does repair work, the 900 series tends to be a little less serviceable and harder to work on than a lot of other Marshalls. They sound good when they're firing on all cylinders and I really like the SLX, but there's some things that need to be dealt with on the board to make them more robust and reliable.
both sound great. you know how to record a guitar thats for sure. sounds like a 70's recording. wow.
I owned 3 JCM900 and a JCM800 in different configurations and loved them all!!!
+Patrick Gauthier Cheers Patrick!
Does the 800 need some new tubes? Sounds like a pile of tube rattle there. Awesome as always!
+Woodeso's Guitar Mods I'm afraid it needs some TLC. Cheers!
@@JohanSegeborn Ha Ha man they always do I had the bright cap clipped on mine and love it but man the stupid tech rolled it out the back warehouse door on a hard metal trolly and damn if it didn't break a tube or tube socket So the 2nd time I fired it up it was barely pushing I let the tech know back then "hey easy there" and recently reminded him but just should have never happened Almost unforgivable Oh well now have to run it almost 100 miles round trip Quite the pisser
I had a 50 watt DR when they first came out. Gigged it a few years. Wasn't bad at all, although I sold a 50 watt JMP to get it, because it had channel switching. I too, have dogged the 900's, but in this vid, I like the 900 better. Go figure. But then again, any head you play through a killer Pulsonic cab with basketweave to smooth the highs and bring out the mids....will sound great. Perhaps a check cab or more modern cab would show more differences, who knows. Regardless, thanks again, great comparaison vid, and the 900 wins :)
+soundboy57 Thanks man, yeah the basketweave certainly helps
I have the JCM900 Higain Master Volume model. It sounds great at any level, especially playing between preamp and gain knobs create different drive sounds suit for all rocking styles to trash metal. I'm lovin' it.
I've used the two of them together for years best live sound ive ever had.
because its the only sound you've ever had,no comparison gives no difference.
My only ever complaint with them was their seeming lack of tighter distortion and super bright,eye shattering tone. Maybe it was an EQ issue but my fellow guitarist and friend in my band back in the early 90's, his tone always sounded like a box of bees compared to mine and I was using Ampeg SS 150 and 140 Chorus heads at that time. My tone cut through the mix and was creamy, more precise and ballsy and got a lot of compliments. His gave you a headache and nothing about his playing, he was a great guitar player. Anyway, that was what always turned me off to them but I will say I never spent a lot of time playing on one of them alone. JCM 800's on the other hand, well I used to own one and it was very nice. It was a 19080's JCM 2205 2 channel, not the same as the one channel 2203, bright caps and all that. You do have to keep in mind this was in the day when OD pedal choices were a lot smaller ( mostly Boss and Ts-9 were on the top of the food chain) My next amp after the Ampeg was a Marshall 50 watt 1972 plexi style which is still now and will always be my baby for the past almost 20 years. I think I have had it for 19 years and got it for VERY CHEAP too!! ANyway as usual another great video Johan!! Cheers my brother!!
+leftyfusion88 Thanks my friend :-)
Great comparison vid Johan! I agree the 900 has a bad reputation. Both the 900 and 800 are amazing amps… Having said that… 800 sounds better to my ears (regardless of the buzzing). 800 has something special, more bite, bigger balls. It is the ultimate amp. I love the simplicity of the 800. Nothing to hide behind.
+Josh MacDonald Thanks Josh!
I don't either John. Several years ago I read an interview in a guitar rag with Robin Trower. At the time he said he was using two JCM-800s and two JCM-900s. He said he used pedals with the 800s but guitar>cord>amp with the 900s because they don't need pedals. I wish I had bought one when they were dirt cheap, an SL-X! Oh well, not like I need it. I have a Mark-V so I can approximate any amp. I also love the old SS Jordan stage amps. 2x15 vertical combos, I have two and frankly, they sound awesome. I believe Led Zeppelin used them in LA at their first USA show. Thanks for all the great videos. (Could you play a little more clean with the amps before going into distortion?) I especially LOVE the clean from a Plexi but hardly ever hear it. I wish someone would make a Plexi character pedal without all the distortion... maybe it's just me. Julien
+jbow Thanks! Yeah I have a tendency of going straight to dirty tones. Will keep it in mind!
yep
Admittedly I wandered down to the comments section about halfway through the video conceding that I liked the overall sound of the 800 more, and then you held those power chords and the JCM900 really showed where I would likely use it in place of the former. Those fat sustained chords sounded fantastic.
Always liked the sound of the DR. Wish I hadn't sold my SLX head :( 900 are better than they get credit for. Maybe gear snobbery could be the problem. Good vid again:)
+theflyingmat Thanks ;-)
I toured NZ during the early 90s. We initially had JCM900s as our backline for the tour. I was excited to think that we would be using the new model Marshalls for the tour, as opposed to my old JCM800s at home in my own country. During the first sound check i could not get anything close to a reasonable sound. I remember the drummer saying "can you pull down the treble and add more bass", i replied with, " the treble is completely off, and the bass is on full", it still sounded like a giant transistor radio. Both amps sounded as though they were broken. We used them for a few gigs and struggled all the way. At one venue, the support act was to use our stage gear. The guitarist from that band could not get a reasonable sound form the 900s either. Both he and i used his old JMP that night which was far superior. We eventually switched them for JCM800s and had no issues from then on. Early this century i gigged with a bloke that used a 900, it was nowhere near as bad as those i had used years ago, it sounded ok, not great, but quite useable. I gigged in Western Australia around 2006, at an outdoor venue and the amps supplied were 900s, they were ok, i did the old "everything on 10" trick that night - they did the job. As for the solid state clipping, i see no difference from adding a TS-9 in front, it should work fine. In-fact some of my favourite amps are the 4203 and 3203 which have fully solid state preamps.
I cannot believe how few people realize this: The Ts-9 is not a distortion pedal. It's a preamp booster with an accentuated midrange with a bit of growl. Its primary functions are to push the tubes harder and fatten up the tone. And, if you want to stay pure, I use a little rack with a Tubeworks 921 tube reverb and a Hafler Hellrazor tube preamp. Into two 2204s, well, I'll just say it sounds pretty good.
@@kurtbader9711 A Ts9 is quite often used to as a preamp only, with its gain turned down but volume up full - to push the amplifiers own preamp into overdrive. However a Ts9 Is a solid state circuit, it has 1S1588 symmetrical diode clipping within the circuit. which is designed to clip (or distort the signal)
Jcm900 (not all models) include solid state diode clipping within their circuitry, which like the TS9 schematic shows, it is designed to clip or distort the signal.
So although a TS9 is not a dedicated distortion pedal - it does have diode clipping and does create its own levels of distortion, albeit low as a comparison to a fuzz or distortion pedal.
@@johntractor9799 Agreed it includes diode clipping, as well as low compared to pedals or amps which rely on it to make themselves distortion machines. As far as pushing amplifier preamps into overdrive, you'll notice that's what I was saying. A bit of growl from the pedal and mostly added upper midrange and voltage. I. think we're saying the same thing in different ways.
@@kurtbader9711 In my original comment, (and it may not have been very clear).
I mainly meant, that so many people look down on solid state, (must be ALL TUBE).
So they have a plexi and brag about its ALL TUBE circuitry - but then stick a TS9 or SD-1 or DOD250 etc in front of it.
I am not really a great fan of the JCM900s, I have used them, they can be OK, they work and get the job done. But those same people that slag the JCM900s because of the solid state clipping circuit in front, are nearly always putting a solid state clipping pedal in front of their ALL TUBE amp anyway.
@@johntractor9799 Yeah, agreed, I know that's a common practice, but not everyone does. And if you have a plexi or a 1959 you have to go deaf to make them distort. The easy way is to stick a ss distortion pedal in front (mxr distortion + etc. ) but not the best. If there are tube snobs, maybe you taught them something. On the other hand, the majority of experienced guitarists (imho) prefer the sound of tube distortion. My solution, running a good tube preamp into the fronts of jmp 2204s seems to solve all tonal disappointments. Then I use a ts-9 when I need that little extra push "over the cliff." So many people look down on ss amps because most don't sound so good. Even my faves like the Sunn concert lead and some of those little old peaveys, even a Roland jc50 sounded pretty nasty. Fun! But when you hit a unique pure tube distortion tone, there's no going back.
i just bought a early 90s 900!!! by far my favorite amp ive played! ( with use of its corresponding jcm900 1960 lead 4x12 cabinet!)
I think a lot of people underestimate EQ posibilitys of amps, so they bulid their opinions to fast, without proper analysis. I really like that you playing around a lot with amps! In my opinion each apmlifier can sound great if you put enough time to find your sound!
I know Dave Navarro from Janes Addiction used this amp (900) for all of the Ritual LP and touring- probably from the get go when this amp came out- and he had monstrous great tone and crunch! - plus in my humble O - his phrasing was incredible in all of his playing styles, riff's and solos alike! Good giving props Johan! 👍🏻✌🏻🤘🏻
+Jamie Gustkey Thanks Jamie! :-)
john 5 plays 900s and so does trey azagthoth from morbid angel and neither of them put a bunch of effects in front of them and both get tones that are heavier than hell.
John 5 uses a few BOSS pedals in front of his, including a Super Overdrive. As for Trey, he uses a RAT R2DU rack unit in front of his 900's to extend sustain and add extra crunch. The R2DU is essentially two RAT2 pedals in one unit.
Yeah John 5 use JMC900. Also as an amp modded builder , with a little work most techs can make almost Any Marshall sound good.
The criticism is mostly coz ppl dont know how to use amps. The 800 has moderate gain which accepts pedals well. It 900 works great too as long as one goes easy on the gain. Assuming the cab's the same.
It must be wonderful to feel all that volume behind you, you can probably feel it moving your clothes or the hair on your head. Fuck, I love your channel. Well done, as always!
+Alec Sneed Thanks Alec! That's great to hear! Cheers
I’ve just been reunited with my JCM900 dual reverb 2x12 with 5881 valves/tubes that had been loaned to a friend for 13 years. 😁 Damn it makes a nice sound. I was really surprised how great it sounds with channel A cranked; really good classic rock tones.
I have two of the 900’s, love them both.
great video, i would prefer an jcm 900 mkiii to a jcm 800 to be honest, could you do a video with a telecaster and the 800 without pedals so we could see the heaviest a tele can sound?
+Brais Duarte Thanks, yeah I'll keep the Tele in mind.
great johan, cheers from spain, thanks for replying!
can you do a MK2 vs a MK3 or is there not much difference between the DR and a MK3?
no,you wouldn't .
if you only had $600/$800 to spend you would buuy a 900.my jcm800 sounds nothing like this one,it is a lot tighter than the 900 and better mids but there's nothing wrong with a 900 either if that's what you can afford,just diode clipping.no one purposely buys a 900 rather than an 800 ever.this isnt a really good comparison,somethings weird with this jcm800?
I would.
In my experience buying music equipment the 800 mk2 and 900 mkiii sell for close to the same price, at this time the JCM 800 mk2 is maybe $300-$400 more on average then the JCM 900 MKiii, I highly suspect it's more to do with history (what rockstars used it, songs it was used in) and the fact that it's already proven itself to be reliable, but certain 900s are proving themselves to be fantastic heads too now, and prices are reflecting that. I got my JCM 900 Mkiii for a steal, paid $400 back in 2012, was deciding between it and an 800 as a matter of fact! It has highly appreciated in value since then, double in fact, and I am tickled to see it go from being worlds apart in price from an 800 to seeing it toe to toe with the 800, tells you what players really think about the head now! Mind you I am talking the Mkiii specifically, a head Marshall only produced for 2 years and is often confused with it's inferior (in my opinion) brother, the DR. Personally I don't like the SL-X either, but it's better then the DR for sure, Mkiii gives me the exact vintage Marshall tone I was looking for in the 800 (and even heavier tones if I so choose thanks to the gain knob), and apparently I am not alone as the other two 900s seem to sell for less then MKiii heads do, if you read about these heads comprehensively on forums you will find most who know of the mkiii's existence love and cherish them. Regardless the MKiii suffers the stigma due to that other 900 (DRs I am looking at you!) and, as said earlier, are ignorantly lumped in the same group with the rest of the 900 series. Otherwise I believe the mkiii would be the same price if not more. Personally, I prefer my 900 Mkiii over an 800 because I believe it can do so much more stock then an 800 with the added gain while producing the same great tone if you choose not to use gain. But I like both series and would be happy with either. Try an MKiii when you come across one, if you haven't already that is, I think you'd dig it. In the right hands it's an 800 with options!
As a side note, the JCM 900 Mkiii, specifically, can be used as a "true tube amplifier" (shame you can't do this with the DRs), all you have to do is turn the gain down to zero and only use preamp gain and boom, diode free killer tone. Sizzlin' and simple :)
The 900 eats the 800 alive. There's some tube rattling going on the 800 I think, but you can tell the 900's mid profile is more well-rounded and nicer to the ear. And awesome playing, as always!
+Nicolás del Castillo Thanks Nicolás!
Hey Johan! Any advice on which Celestions to possibly opt for if running a 2x12 cab with a JCM 900 4100... I'm thinking Creamback's possibly... Thank you in advance for all of your work!! Great channel!!
i think both sounds God. its perfect to the early 70s style playing that you performance. Great to hear
👍😉🇬🇧❤900 ( SL-X...my fave) & the DSL 2000
please, more videos for 900 Dr!!! make a video testing different cabinets in 900 4100 please!!
+Angelo Black I'll keep it in mind! :-)
Tack för en bra video! Man ser rätt ofta 900as på Blocket och kostar ingenting. Efter att ha sett din video ska jag kasta mig över nästa JCM900 som är till salu :)
I have owned a 1991 JCM 900 for 22 years. I still love that amp. Crank the Channel A gain stage and it sounds just like an 800. I think the bad rep comes from the channel B side, but that channel can be tamed if you keep the gain around 6
1. Great playing, nice video.
2. I have Marshall JCM 900 but this JCM 800 sounds better 😊
3. The best Marshall amp is 1976 JCM 2204 / 50W 👍
+Fender Montenegro Cool, you mean the uncascaded circuit. Really rare. Haven't even had the chance to play it yet actually. Cheers
Johan Segeborn my 2204 was originally uncascaded. It didn't have the gain I wanted so I rewired it to have the later circuit. You have to crank that uncascaded version.
The 900 just sounds like an 800 that's Not broken.
Hahahahah......😄....made me laugh out loud by myself👍......Thanks. I had some great experiences with the 5881 powered 100 watt 900......
@@Auen73 I got a HGDRV 900 (4500) with 6L6 in it but i think I'm going to swap them for 5881's because all the demo's I've heard sound better for what I'm looking for, warmer than the 6L6 and with a nice high end to it.
Hahahahhahahahahahahaah
Guys the 900 is an excellent amp. The 4100 does have clipping in both channels, soft led clipping on the clean channel and hard diode clipping on the high gain channel. The high gain channel also has a different EQ (fixed). There is a mod that you can do, and I’ve done it to mine, just add a small switch to turn on and off the clipping circuit in the high gain channel and you get 2 very good clean channels with different voices. Add a treble booster after your Les Paul for seminal blues breaker tone, if you are a strat guy add a TS9 for Texas Flood or a Velvet Fuzz for some Foxey Lady or Comfortably Numb.
Both sound great - if played well :-) Great video as always.
+Richard James Thanks! :-)
I think 90% of the tonal differences people perceive come down to speakers - the old Plexi's are so favored I believe mostly because of all the great speakers they came out with back then. When the JCM 900s came out - I think the speakers used were heavily mid scooped. Probably the G12T-75's - match 'em to good ol' greenbacks like you did - and suddenly all that righteous tone is back.
+VoxPathfinder15R Indeed ;-)
You got a bad reputation
That's the word out on the town
It gives a certain fascination
But it can only bring you down...
...there is nothing to bring this amp down. It sounds great!
+NPGANDERSSON hahaha! \m/ Lizzy Cheers
Johan Segeborn I expected that riff when I saw the title of this video. Turned out great anyway. Great as usual. You should have a world wide TV show... oh, wait, you already have...
I’m a JCM900 combo 2x12 100w owner. Its a fantastic guitar amp. Its very important to choose the three correct tubes for the pre-amp section and its order. This is crucial for the sound, furthermore, the jcm900 allows us to carry out different and simple modifications to its circuit, for example: to replace the electrolytic capacitors with others made of polypropylene or oil; add a triode / pentode selector; install a rectifier valve with its corresponding switch, etc.
I have particularly achieved the sound I want using the following tubes in the preamp: V1TAD 7025WA (RT080), V2 TAD 12AX7A (RT001) and V3 TAD E83CC Highgrade (RT001), with V1 being the furthest from the power tubes.
I play with an american fender stratocaster strat plus with lace sensors.
2 absolute legends in rock music
The JCM900 Dual Reverb relies on solid-state diodes for distortion. The JCM 900 Master Volume is a tube only design. I have both. Two completely diferent sounding amps. A more fair comparison would be the JCM 900 MV against the JCM 800.
Hey thanks that's a nice tid bit of knowledge to understand and can see why it would make quite a difference
The 900 is a decent amp. I think it just lives in the shadow of the 800
+ActionTrollStudios Cheers
Love both but I prefere the Jcm 900, and ... I love so much your video, thx !!
+honolulu3d Thanks, great to hear that!
I love your compairisons, I traded my 100 watt 2000dsl for a Mesa dual because of your reviews. It is awesome with el34s in it. This has great playing in it as always, Johan! If I have been informed correctly, some of the later 900 series had a solid state clipping between the pre and power amps and this ruined the reputation of all of the 900 series amps. It is easy enough to research these types of things on the internet now days. Cheers! :)
+kosmicwizard Thanks :-) Yeah the Dual Reverb also has diodes in the signal chain. The SL-X is all tube though
Interestingly, I've found the ProCo Rat pedal to compliment this amp very well, moreso than the Marshalls preceding it. I'm not sure why, I guess the harmonics just match.
Even better...Rat and old TS together Instant Judas Priest
AHHHH! don't say that. I sold my RAT years ago. I better buy another one.
I own a jcm900 and it's a love hate relationship really, it's good for some things but not so impressive for others.. what i don't like about it is the lack of richness in the sound.
Once again great tone - straight from Your fingers ;-). The amps are just an addition.
But thanks for the comparison.
I think most people that bash the JCM900 probably never played one and bash the amp just because of the circuit design (because it is not pure 100% tube).
One other thing is, how many of those amps standing at homes, garages, basements, studios and other rehearsal rooms are used all the way cranked up?
I have the JCM900 4100 among other Marshalls (1960, 2555X, 6100, JVM410) and other amps and it is a great sounding amp, especially at room volume, the 2 channel design is also very nice.
Pleas also keep in mind that a huge part of the amp sound depends on the used speaker ;-).
As with all that are too invested in their niche, they all share or are at least heavy influenced by an opinion that is popularised because of some faux authority or culture.
Maybe the amp was good but the pick ups weren't all that great, maybe they used the wrong gauge strings, maybe the wood of the neck and body wasn't the proper one, maybe it was the shim used to angle the neck a bit that prevented all the vibrations to come through, maybe it was the tonal paint that wasn't the correct mix or maybe it was the strap that sucked in all the tone.
They both sounded great! Thank you for taking the time to show what the difference is between them! 😀
+ultrafloss492 Thanks! :-)
I always considered the JCM900 a top-tier rock and metal amp. I don't understand the hate either.
+TheRosswise It will probably be reevaluated in time. Cheers
Play one side by side to an 800. I bought one a 900 5 years ago at G.C. Then went to the store a week later had an 800 I played it and couldn't believe the difference. I brought my 900 to the store to compare and returned it and bought the 800.
Tasty licks as always, Johan! :)
Never knew JCM900 had a bad reputation. I'm surprised. I thought the hate started when JCM2000 appeared, which has its downsides but is a totally useable amp. But JCM900 is a great amp for a lot of different styles of music be it rock, metal, grunge, blues, brit-pop, indie-rock or whatever. And it records nice.
+Peter Osipov Thanks Peter! :-)
Try sound very similar to me. In use the rack JMP-1 with the rack EL34 50/50. All Marshalls are well made. Always great to see you Johan.
Does anyone know if the 900 reissues that started in 2003 still have the tube sockets mounted to the chassis?
Doesn't the "bad timing" of the JCM 900's release also have to do with the fact that Mesa Boogie released the Dual Rectifier shortly afterwards, and the Dual Rec was what was generally used by the Nu-Metal scene that was emerging that same decade?
+Dion R That must have had an influence too
Johan Segeborn Come to think of it, Peavey released the 5150, at the time an Eddie Van Halen signature amp that has since been rebranded as the 6505 after EVH left Peavey to launch his own brand, at around the same time. Like the Dual Rectifier, the 5150 also emerged as a "go-to amp" for metal players from the 90s onward (and not just the EVH-endorsed Peavey version...this includes the post-endorsement 6505 and the EVH's modern self-branded 5150).
@@dionr1168 ya Marshall’s ruled for a long time but the 90’s was all about rectos, Soldano’s, 5150’s etc. doesn’t make the 900 a bad amp.
what was it buzzing during jcm 800 parts?
+Angelo Probst It sounded like it might be time for a service.
I think so :) Great video anyway, as always.
+Angelo Probst Thanks Angelo! :-)
Yeah, I liked the 900 better, but I was afraid the 800 was about to fail from the buzzing/crackling. Great comparo as usual Dr. Marshall!
+jcoulter43 Thanks, yeah the 800 is probably due for a service
THANK YOU! The DR900's really are great sounding Marshall amps.
Even better with a few simple & reversible mods.
+Wak Job Thanks! Do you have any favorite 900 mod?
I could go on and on... but lifting one leg of capacitor c27 in the fixed pre-EQ for the B channel makes the amp sound fatter just like the channel A but with lot more gain on tap.
The el34 and 5881 versions respond differently to different mods also.
I don't care what anyone says, preamp tube changes DO have an effect on this amp despite all the solid state components in there.
I found that a nice NOS rca, sylvania, or mullard ect... in V1 goes along way to improving the tone of the DR900's.
I do lots of other little "tricks" while I'm in there.
OH.... and for $35 a choke is a nice add on to these amps.
Really helps with the feel at higher volumes. The DR's also benefit from being played louder than usual, and really play well with 'Greenback' speakers.
I love the red marshall look