I am seeing the question a lot in the comments, "How (or did you) charge for this job?" Great question. I bill by the hour on diags. If it takes 5 hrs, I bill 5hrs. I have a 1hr minimum on all diags. I don't care what the end result is, even if it is the "just a fuse." Time is time. Fact is straight diagnosing is a losing proposition for shops from a business aspect. How so? If I bill 5hrs on a diag job and as in this case, no parts required I get 5hrs at $80 per/hr. that is $400 total. It takes a lot of thought, factory service info., expensive meters or equipment in some cases. On the flip side let's say I do a full 4 wheel brake job in the same amount of time along with pads rotors and calipers. Now I have billed labor AND made profit on all of the parts. The work was easier, required less thought and made two to three times the profit for the shop. So would a shop be right if they charged more for diagnostics? ABSOLUTELY! Fact is their diagnostic labor should be at least twice their hourly repair labor other wise they are losing money and time. Why waste time diagnosis a vehicle for half the profit you could make doing a simple brake job? As a shop owner who do you pay more, the general service tech changing brakes or the "A" Tech doing diags.? Why do you pay him more when he makes you less profit? Food for thought. Let me know how your shop charges. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
People think that just cause the problem was a easy fix they should just get charged for the easy fix well listen it took alot of time to for the diagnóstic and stuff your time like you said you could do more brake jobs and make easy money honestly I dont care if you charged me that much as long as you took care of the problem cause like they say a cheap mechanic is a expensive mechanic Eric you do some of the best job diagnosing I wish you were my mechanic and to those people who say he should not charge that much open up a shop and dont charge for the diagnóstic see how much money you lose.
AGREE 100% Eric, we need to be paid for our time and profit is essential to the success of the business! Not sure why guy's even debate it at this point in the game?
I don't have a shop but the shop I go to does charge more for electrical/electronic diagnoses. Given how crazy over-engineered modern auto electrical systems are, I have zero problems with this. One time my mechanic diagnosed an electrical problem in my wife's car as a corroded wire underneath the passenger seat. Like your problem here, that takes appreciable skill to troubleshoot correctly.
Love your troubleshooting process. Similar to how we learned as electronic techs in the Navy. I loved seeing you walk through the schematics. What are the sources you use to get them.
I've probably said this in your comments before, but I'm am industrial electrician / automation engineer up here a few hours away near Syracuse, and troubleshooting industrial machinery is almost exactly the same as the process you went through to find the cause of this problem. I just work with higher voltages and AC instead of DC. I see either 120vac or 24vdc control voltages and 480vac 3-phase load voltages at considerably higher currents. I was with you every step, and in fact, a step ahead of you during the few times you hesitated to explain to your audience some of the basics. I've been doing this for over 40 years, and it is not easy to teach. It takes a certain (high) level of logical sequencing technique to get there. Ignore these fools who try to tell you "you should have done this or that" because Monday morning quarterbacking on youtube is dead simple and stupid easy once someone else has done the work and shown you the answer. Keep up the good work, brother.
Agreed, 19 yrs in auto field, and you tend to see a few things, one thing is I never under estimate who done what, or what the culprit could be, I just use logic and walk it through.
Just curious EricO what that spare circuit was actually for; was it trailer adaptor or some police accessories system (don't think they use Hyundai's in Traffic Police but who knows). Don't suppose you have the time to go down that rabbit hole!
@@tomctutor I would love to know too. Most of the time, unused fuse slots have no contacts in them. The ones that do have contacts, are for accessories or options that this particular vehicle doesn't have. I can't think of a single option or accessory that would need to power up those circuits. It may be possible that this is some factory diagnostic item for when the car is being built, but I would love to know the actual answer!
Dr. O. is a specialist. He will treat the common cold, but when you come to him for brain surgery, he's open for business, outstanding among many, and should be duly compensated.
I wish I could have seen the customer say "$500 to pull out a fuse!?!?" being ignorant and not knowing anything about the knowledge required to diagnose the problem to begin with. Great video!! Shows that even the simplest solution can take hours and hours to solve
Man, you are really gifted. Don't take that for granted. I hear you put yourself down sometimes and I wonder what the #$%% is he talking about. Most ASE Mechs can't hold a candle to you. I'm not blowing smoke up your butt. I appreciate your humility. But a gift is a gift! Just saying thanks is enough sometimes. You inspire me to not give up.
Here's my problem with this video. This is a master class in the proper way to search for the root cause of the problem. Great, but my problem is, I don't have any mechanic within 200 miles of me who can do what you do. It's a long drive from Nova Scotia to SMA!
Been working for Hyundai for over 13 years now and I’ve actually seen this exact issue 3 times. I believe 2 of them were used cars that were purchased at an auction. Now I know exactly where to go when a car comes in for this condition. Also I’ve noticed that the door locks don’t work with the remote and a few other things don’t work like they should. First time I came across this issue it took me around 3-4 hours to find it and I couldn’t believe that someone put a fuse in that spot and also couldn’t believe it took so long to find it but it isn’t something you see every day and something you definitely don’t expect. Good job on the diag, you went through the exact process and pain I went through. The only good thing for me is that I knew exactly where to go when the next 2 cars came in with that issue and I’ll know where to go in the future. Thanks for posting the video, hopefully it helps someone else
It be interesting how the wiring is powering the relays as it shouldn't do anything putting a fuse in a unused slot (I keep 4 spare fuses in 4 slots that are unused in my fuse box) So what you're saying is this is design flaw in the vehicle
It could be a design flaw, possibly they wanted to use that fuse location for something else and didn’t realize it until after production what was going on so instead of changing thousands of fuse boxes/wiring harnesses, they just blanked out the spot on the box/cover. They should have removed one of the pins after production so that if you did accidentally put a fuse in there then there wouldn’t be an issue. Most fuse boxes have spare fuses (including this box) but below the fuse will either be 2 blank spots or sometimes just 1 pin
Thanks much for the education. I hope I’ll remember to NEVER put a fuse where it isn’t indicated and if I encounter a parasitic draw to check for a parasitic fuse first. My GF gave up on a Pathfinder because it would stall out randomly and her mech couldn’t find why. A competent sleuth would have helped and many like her. Your ability to understand, rationalize and reason with electronics and related diagrams is a talent and ability I wish I had a better handle on. But watching you and others on RUclips U is a door to improvement.
Lifelong carpenter/drywaller here..... am I a mechanic... NO.... but here I am... WHY?.... because Eric.... YOU ARE THE MAN.... your abilities are many and extreme.... and.. well I'm curious about the nuts and bolts of stuff too.... love to the Mrs. !... and thanks Eric !
I spend a lot of time being jealous of you because I go to work where the guy in the captain's chair thinks I'm an idiot every time I print a wiring diagram for a diagnosis like this. He thinks hotline archive articles on Identifix are good enough to solve everything. Sometimes, he's right. But mostly, they cause just as many problems as they solve. What's more frustrating is he should be smart enough to know better. Keep doing exactly what you do, bill accordingly, and thanks for putting these videos out when you can.
I know this is an old thread but, dude you just saved my life. I was having the exact same problem, pulled the #4 fuse and it's fine now. Except I just cant believe that fuse isn't needed. I'm sure mine came from the factory with that fuse installed. I'm gonna start doing some serious digging but, thanks so much for posting. Guys like you are what makes YT great.
Hey there, Justin's Girlfriend Heidi here. I have been confused by diagrams for a long time. You helped me understand a whole bunch more. Thank you love.
WOW nice work. I am an industrial breakdown electrician in Perth Australia. I come up against strange things like that all the time. They are a real head-scratcher. Good job finding the problem.
19 yrs in the auto field, and all I can say is well played, I agree with you, follow your logic, follow what make sense, most "Techs" would've either ripped into the back harness OR wouldn't have touched it and walked away. Love your videos, keep up the great work.
Better than Ivan LESS than no parts required! I would hate to write the bill that says 3 hours labor to remove a fuse(insert long explanation at bottom of bill). It would tick me off like the mysterious missing fuses. Wow thanks for your time putting yourself through it again just for us 335 thousand people.
Willing to bet that most garages, including at the dealerships, wouldn't have been able to figure this out, either because they wouldn't have invested the time to diag it or they just lacked the skills and experience to do so. Eric offhandedly mentioned that this issue might've been the reason the car went to auction in the first place, and that was my first thought. I just imagine this car having gone to the Hyundai dealership multiple times for this with no resolution before the owner just threw up their hands and sold it.
Food For Thought take note right out the gate anything that has to do with power issues battery tail light headlight turn signal check fuse box check it twice maybe three. Make it a rule of thumb and then start all the Diagnostics when you've concluded that it's not the fuses or issue in the fuse box
I've started going to training for my dealer and It's such a satisfying feeling to finally able to keep up and understand what the heck that Eric is talking about lol like about the diagrams
Once again this shows where a true professional can overcome any problem, no matter how obscure, with knowledge experience and most of all patience. Your dedication to your craft is evident in everything you do and your customers are lucky to have a knowledgeable and caring technician working on their vehicles no matter what the cost. The potential for a "Parts Cannon" approach on a vehicle like this so great in other shops with techs who care only about Getting it out the door quickly and you took the (Over) time to get it done right. Thanks so much for your video's, and for showing what a bad day looks like in between all the good ones.
I appreciate the fact that you are not a parts changer and so many of your repairs come down to a bad wire or something plugged. Watching you work makes me miss my small hometown where you run into your mechanic at the grocery store or parents night at the elementary school. I like my mechanic’s shop because if I call up they know my voice, my car, my kids. However that takes a lot of looking for in the “Big City”. I would rather pay $500 for your knowledge than $500 for parts that I don’t really need. Love your channel. 👍👍☮️
Had me glued to the screen. Very good diagnosis, everyone would of called a fuse box. Actually would of solved it too, at the expense of the customer. Good job!
Well if I was the one working on it, I would have been anal enough to put all the fuses exactly where they were. Problem would probably still be there. 😂
Hey Eric. All because some idiot decided to install that rogue fuse - unbelievable. A great systematic diagnosis by you and very interesting for the not so talented onlookers. Hence the reason that we all subscribe and enjoy your videos. By the way your prodigy Ivan is progressively "snapping at your heels," ha- ha. Cheers from an expat Scot/Aussie now retired in Thailand.
Bravo,, always a pleasure to watch someone who excels at what they do. Just found this channel,,, really enjoying some of your older vids,, wish I'd found it 7 months ago when I changed the tranny on my Chevy 5.3 truck in my driveway. Took me 3 days of fumbling around like an idiot. One of the neighbors reported me to the HOA because of the loud 'sailor' language,, but hey,,, that's Florida for you.
And yes, charge the hours you put into the job. Your customers will thank you in the end especially if they think there car is unfixable. A $200 to $300 repair bill is much better than them having to go and buy/finance another car.
As I was watching I was thinking to myself that, Darn he would make a good doctor. Fact of the matter is he is a good doctor but he only operates on things that bleed oil. I love this channel and it has given me some good ideas incase of future problems. Thank you Mr. and Mrs. O. for the tips and processes. I am truly thankful and glad there are good mechanics out here doing an honest job.
Personal opinion here. When I worked for a car company for over 30 years, We were taught to look for an answer the simple way. Many times we had draw power issues showing up on our voltage meters.Batteries going dead. So we were taught check fuses first, inside and outside. Fifty percent of the time Missing or blown fuse was the problem. Then we did it the way you do it, for the other time,s it was not a fuse problem. It just saved time and energy . Your diagnosis is superb as always. keep up the good work.
For vampire drains I put an ammeter on the battery and yank fuses. For an easy fix if a person is cheap I just add a relay to the offending circuit controlled by the switch. Kind of a reach around approach.
Eric, you did good by following your usual diagnostic process, instead of swapping parts in hoping to fix it. Charging for diagnostic time is fair, in my opinion.
The bottom line is the customer didn't know how to fix the problem. He needed expert diagnosis and got it with South Main Auto Repair. Some garages just change out parts and still not repaired. Great job Eric O and great video.
Maybe they use that as a isolated test port at the factory. Either way, they should have a plug in the hole to prevent contaminants or people with too many fuses in their pocket from screwing everything up❗
If one pops in there again (afterwards, or after any other work), I'd replace it with a blown one. Nevermind what I'd say to a mechanic that I caught inserting one in there! ☝😆
As much as I enjoy watching you turn wrenches, these are the kinds of videos I enjoy the most from you. I'm not an automotive mechanic. I'm a self taught heavy equipment mechanic, mainly skidloaders and excavators. And as machines become more electroic, they get harder and harder to diagnose. Especially when my small company refuses to plop down the money for the diagnostic equipment.
This video sounds like every day of my old job at the phone company as a switching center trouble shooter (retired now). Most troubles generally turned out to be wiring errors, crosses, shorts, and problematic components. Reading detached contact schematics skill was mandatory. Your trouble shooting methods were sound. Your circuit reading and reasoning were excellent. Good job.
I love following your electrical diagnostic thought pathways. Am learning so much and realizing that you follow common sense and logic, where a lot of shops don't. They just keep changing parts until they fix it or they don't. Great work Eric. Please keep the videos coming.
Okay! It's official. You sir, are a leaping screaming GENIUS. I am in awe you...again! On the one hand I would love to know how to do that. On the other, I hope I never learn how. Excellent video! I learn so much. Keep it up.
You have got to be the best technician I have ever seen, also extremely dedicated to finding the solution. There are a lot of guys I work with/have worked with and if they can't figure it out they call it quits and just say "take it to the dealership" but not you sir! I wish I was Josh to learn under you!!
I love this type of video Eric the thought process getting to the bottom of the problem is absolutely priceless, and all the diag time charges getting the job done right is well deserved... A lot people doesn’t really understand that a good diagnostician saves you money in the long run vs parts changer guessing stuff ... 👍👍👍👍
This is actually my favorite kind of video you do! I would almost argue for increasing your labor rate for cars that have been messed with first! I'm sure I'm not alone when I say all of us in this trade have plenty of odd stories about auction and body shop cars!
Almost like a test in tech school where the teacher plants a problem that shouldn't be there. Problems made by others are some of the toughest to find. A problem like that takes so much time and patience a lot of techs will never find it. Great job.
This is an endless discussion by every trade in existence; price justification. My bottom line - I charge what I need for my expenses and life style. Customers are welcome to go else where; I even encourage it sometimes. I'm not the cheapest by far but so what; I don't have to be. My customers get fantastic service, excellent warranties and no excuses. 2200 of them keep coming back.
I appreciate you taking the time to recreate the troubleshooting process. If the customer is frustrated by the cost, think about the boat anchor they'd be left with after taking it to three or four shops with the same boat anchor to sit on their lot that he can't sell. I doubt anyone could have figured it out quicker unless it was a dealership that might have had a similar deal recently enough for someone to remember. You are my auto repair GURU!
Wow!! Wtf??! Now I don't recall having any "blank" spaces have pins (intact circuits) on BOTH slots in fuse boxes. Either they may have 1 (usually hot) or none. THAT is insane! What a loop! I really liked this diagnosis Eric! Diag.net worthy, for sure. Yeah, being methodical is HUGE to this kind of work. Loved it! I can watch these kinds of vids all day long! 👍👍👍😊😊🤗🤗
Good find and a lesson learned that could stop someone throwing in the towel and getting rid of thier car. I'm not a mechanic but I have had faults in my own cars like this before.(battery going flat overnight). I do the normal check alternator voltage and see if charging. If ok the next thing is I always check fuse box cover "map" and see if there is anything that should not be there. Like in your case a fuse in a blank pin. My moto, KISS, keep it simple stupid before delving deeper. Keep up the great videos.
Another rainy day outside of Chicago, watching SMA.....or I call it Sherlock Holmes video. We had two Hyundai cars both had parasitic drains. Both turned out being shorts in wires. Due to critters like ground squirrels and mice chewing on wires. Found out they used Soy based wire cases. Then neighbors car has vacuum leak in his Hyundai from chewed hoses. I feel the frustration. And have seen fuses in blank spaces that were never explained. Keep up the Detective work gumshoe.
I learn from your videos. When you show the wiring diagram and explain your process, it makes sense. This is probably why they got rid of the car. Mind blown
This is, for me, your best, #1, diagnostic video. I can’t tell you how many wrong guesses I made while watching you work your way throgh the problem. Excellent job! Thank you for taking the time to share. Re: Diagnostic charges: I think you should always make a profit, your business, your family, depends on it. But. Your reputation also depends on customer satisfaction. Which means you’re sometimes not gonna make the best profit. ;-) And. Why did they wire that fuse? Why isn’t it capped & labeled? Argh. Great video. Thanks again.
My shop has 5-7 tech's with 3 apprentices and 2-3 lube guys depending on who's quit or been hired with at least 1 apprentice being flat rate. We run RO's off of an electronic shop repair order and part system that acts as a tower operator. Our advisors will put the work into the shop tagged with a category, this category will ensure only certain tech's will pull that job. Most of the technician's will be able to pull anything that comes into the shop except straight basic oil changes or 'problem' diagnosis cars which go to me, S11 category. I'm paid at a rate that is approximately 10% higher to compensate for the straight time aspect of diagnosis vs the gravy of doing brakes or major services. The shop rate still stays the same for this customer pay work. Keep in mind that I can still pull any job that a normal tech can pull when there is no S11 catagory jobs booked in and am still paid at the higher rate. This makes up for many of the crap jobs that get thrown my way that the shop doesn't trust giving to just anyone. And you are right, no matter which way you approach electrical diag keep your way the same. While pulling fuses may have found the draw it still would have messed you up trying to find a non existent circuit. Nice work👍
Very nice work indeed, SMA never ceases to amaze me (and ENTERTAIN,LOL); BUT...here,i would have started by REMOVING fuses,NOTHING else, at first("that" one fuse even clicked a few relays!!!!!); but,NO...he grabbed the BIGGUN: the thermal imaging camera; if he did not have one ,the job would have gone faster; i see this ALL THE TIME (and i see the opposite ALL THE TIME too); It's not a question of billing 5 hours @80 doll (OUCH!!!),it's a question of ....how long does an experienced EXPERT take to do the job; suppose tomorrow another car exactly like that one, comes in,draining the battery overnight: how much to charge then??!! I always heard...the lousy mechanics make the most money.
@@josepeixoto3384 what ever time it takes to fix it (this is so obscure problem it can be time consuming find especially for the first time, a fuse in a empty slot shouldn't do anything as they should not be cross feeding stuff as that defeats the point of a fuse) Typically this is a stuck relay that's causing the power draw or fault in the instrument panel so thermal cam can be useful to see what is warm spot in the car (like relay or ecu or hot fuse or cabling) even bad ground can cause all sorts of issues
@@josepeixoto3384 Sounds to me like you are kind of dissing Eric at the same time----"i would of started by REMOVING fuses"---it sure is easy to point fingers once it has been figured out for you! I get the feeling you also consider yourself a experienced EXPERT. We would have to see that to verify which we can't of course. I have run in to know-it-alls as well---the ones that always figured that they knew AFTER somebody else solved the problem. Great talkers, ONCE the problem was fixed by somebody else.
And again,YOU ARE THE MAN! 98% of shops would have jumped to conclusion spending your money throwing parts at this to no avail rather than spending the time testing everything.
I’ve talked and dealt with many mechanics you are the smartest mechanic I’ve ever seen. I try to watch all your videos. Idk what kind of comments you get from the keyboard warriors but most people just do guess work which is costly.
Your troubleshooting methodology is very good. Worked in the electrical utility industry for 33 years. Been tasked looking for battery grounds inside a substation many times. Similar techniques are applied to locate these faulty grounds. Nice video BTW, thanks.
I'm an industrial electrician and have been for many years. Years ago when I was training as an electrician at a plastics factory in northern Indiana, there was a blow molding machine that had been running for probably 12 to 14 years maybe and one day it just decided to stop. We tried for 2 days to get it operating again but failed. This was a time way before computers so the control panel had close to 200 relays. The decision was made to bring in a lead electrician from one of the other plants from Baltimore. I had met him once before, a short heavyset fellow smoking a big cigar. (Way back when smoking was permitted in the plant). He opened the control panel and staired at it for about 10 minutes. Then asked for the prints (electrical drawings). By this time we had already discussed what the machine would and would not do and he narrowed it down to a particular circuit. After tracing the wires through the entire panel, verifying none were broken, cut or disconnected he stood back and scratched his head. Then started over only this time he said we need to verify each relay was working, that is opening and closing like it should. When he got to the 3rd or 4th relay he stopped, looked back at the print, then looked at the relay and his eyes opened all the way. This is wrong he said, this is suppose to a normally closed set of contacts but it's on a normally open set. With that he removed the cover from the relay and flipped over the contact block. Now it will run he said. I had my doubts since the machine had run for years prior to the breakdown. The machine was started and ran just as designed. I was puzzled. The only logical explanation was that the guy training me had changed them during our earlier attempts but he denied ever getting that deep into it. Either that or gremlins got into the panel. But it was a great lesson in troublrshooting.
Many years ago, I worked in a shop and had a range rover in for a service, everything was good until later in the day I went to drive it off of the ramp, it started up but would not drive, "4 days later" we found out that my boss had been messing around with the fuse box and saw an empty fuse slot, he put in the correct size fuse , turns out to be a fuse for when you have to tow the vehicle, it puts it into neutral, 4 days of fault finding , he never told anyone what he did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok.... that is just plain weird. Who would ever think that you could install a fuse into a space to tow a vehicle? Those British do almost everything upside down and backwards.
@@davidbrown1037 it likely did not have the tow plug fitted on the back of the 4x4 (still mad that putting a fuse into a slot that is unused can cross feed into another system in the car, that really confuses me and for someone finding the fault would be frustrating for something as stupid simple as a fuse in an unused slot that shouldn't do anything )
dont worry about what those people in the comments talking about "i always check fuses first". If you dont have complete service information such as missing pin details it makes your job more difficult or the diagram just being wrong. Fantastic find, your game plan was solid, it worked and the car is fixed.
wonder why the thermal didnt pick it up. as always you are the man mr o. i run a mower shop and your videos has increased my electrical ability's 100 folds.
The fuses were just acting like a jumper wire completing a circuit - assuming their gauge was correct, no heat would be generated. The thermal camera shot he showed had relays visible which were engaged, and energized coils in relays do produce some heat, which is why the relays were visible using thermal imaging.
Thank you so much. We have been fighting with our hyundai genesis for a couple of weeks now. It had the same problem. Saved us a ton of money by watching your video.
I wonder if it's for factory use, to provide ignition on power so the first set of keys can be programmed? Fun tidbit: On a VW with keyless ignition, if you unhook all the door computers and let the car sit for a long time so all the caps completely discharge, when you hook the battery back up, you can turn the ignition on without a key in the car, and you can not turn it off until you unhook and rehook the battery!
Thank you for this video. I'm a used car dealer and we just bought one and it has this same issue and the same fix. You saved us $$$$$, and we learned something new.
I thought iwas listening to Paul Harvey. You were building and building with excitement until you pointed to that blank fuse then BOOM. your excitement turns into the rest of the story.
A solid and logical approach to troubleshooting. On the flight line, we teach similar methodology. Sometimes the simple answer is the root cause, but always prove that before letting it off the gate. Sometimes the simple answer must be proven by going around the block a couple times. So be it.
This video was freakin awesome! One of the best by Eric O! Who would ever think that inserting a fuse in a black spot in the fuse box would cause this much havoc on the system.
Mr. O, you seemed to know the lesson to never let yourself be penalized for being good at what you do. I'm glad you billed for your efforts. I remember the very day that lesson was brought home to me. It's game changer. Now that I'm retired with a few damaged fuses and a couple blown ones, I enjoy your process a lot. It's a good one. Thanks for documenting your work.
Always do a voltage drop across your fuses first this is a 10 minute job to finding the circuit guiltily If it runs through the fuse box at all Still good job and new test method is food for thought Yes I charge for diagnostic labour total this is a big part of today’s cars
Great video! Hyundai also had problems in the past with their 12v power outlets in their vehicles. If you had a cell phone, gps or other item with an internal battery plugged into the outlet and charging and turned off the vehicle, the internal battery of the item would power the radio display illumination circuit and cause a draw that would kill the battery. I used to work at a Hyundai dealership and we had this on numerous vehicles including the Tucson and Santa Fe.
The point is that it's fixed and the car can be sold without worry of it coming back to haunt you. On top of that you didn't put the fuse in the wrong place. Great job partner.
Man “ I wish you were in my area! You are awesome! And know what you are doing and seem to be a honest straight up guy ! Keep on rolling man! Thanks for the video
I swear you the man had this problem for awhile just pulled it and everything is back to normal dude hope both sides of your pillow stays cold love man much love
Great job Eric, sometimes it's better to walk away for a while & then reattack problem refreshed. This sort of work needs to be charged at a higher rate since its always your best mechanic doing the work, plus very few are suited to it.
I agree. I been "thinking I needed one too". Right up there with finding hot circuits/breakers in the panel/wiring in the home. I loved the "back feeding discussion". Something in the "food chain" is shorted to ground and back feeding. Yep. I wonder if you stuck a "fox/hound" noise generator on the Blue wire if the hound would have caught it on the "mystery fuse".
Great work Eric O. That's one of those head scratching jobs that most shops charge some diag and give up. Then it's off to the next shop for more of the same. Way I see it, you saved the used car guy a bunch of money in labor and unnecessary parts. Seriously, great job.
Nice one Eric. I have to say i have had this a few times and even more the disappearing fuses also. But its never the first thing i look for. Bet you slept well though.
I am seeing the question a lot in the comments, "How (or did you) charge for this job?" Great question. I bill by the hour on diags. If it takes 5 hrs, I bill 5hrs. I have a 1hr minimum on all diags. I don't care what the end result is, even if it is the "just a fuse." Time is time. Fact is straight diagnosing is a losing proposition for shops from a business aspect. How so? If I bill 5hrs on a diag job and as in this case, no parts required I get 5hrs at $80 per/hr. that is $400 total. It takes a lot of thought, factory service info., expensive meters or equipment in some cases.
On the flip side let's say I do a full 4 wheel brake job in the same amount of time along with pads rotors and calipers. Now I have billed labor AND made profit on all of the parts. The work was easier, required less thought and made two to three times the profit for the shop.
So would a shop be right if they charged more for diagnostics? ABSOLUTELY! Fact is their diagnostic labor should be at least twice their hourly repair labor other wise they are losing money and time. Why waste time diagnosis a vehicle for half the profit you could make doing a simple brake job? As a shop owner who do you pay more, the general service tech changing brakes or the "A" Tech doing diags.? Why do you pay him more when he makes you less profit? Food for thought. Let me know how your shop charges. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Wow only $80/hr! That's cheap Stealership's charge $130 to load the parts cannon. No wonder your lot is full all the time.
People think that just cause the problem was a easy fix they should just get charged for the easy fix well listen it took alot of time to for the diagnóstic and stuff your time like you said you could do more brake jobs and make easy money honestly I dont care if you charged me that much as long as you took care of the problem cause like they say a cheap mechanic is a expensive mechanic Eric you do some of the best job diagnosing I wish you were my mechanic and to those people who say he should not charge that much open up a shop and dont charge for the diagnóstic see how much money you lose.
AGREE 100% Eric, we need to be paid for our time and profit is essential to the success of the business! Not sure why guy's even debate it at this point in the game?
I don't have a shop but the shop I go to does charge more for electrical/electronic diagnoses. Given how crazy over-engineered modern auto electrical systems are, I have zero problems with this. One time my mechanic diagnosed an electrical problem in my wife's car as a corroded wire underneath the passenger seat. Like your problem here, that takes appreciable skill to troubleshoot correctly.
Love your troubleshooting process. Similar to how we learned as electronic techs in the Navy. I loved seeing you walk through the schematics. What are the sources you use to get them.
I've probably said this in your comments before, but I'm am industrial electrician / automation engineer up here a few hours away near Syracuse, and troubleshooting industrial machinery is almost exactly the same as the process you went through to find the cause of this problem. I just work with higher voltages and AC instead of DC. I see either 120vac or 24vdc control voltages and 480vac 3-phase load voltages at considerably higher currents. I was with you every step, and in fact, a step ahead of you during the few times you hesitated to explain to your audience some of the basics. I've been doing this for over 40 years, and it is not easy to teach. It takes a certain (high) level of logical sequencing technique to get there. Ignore these fools who try to tell you "you should have done this or that" because Monday morning quarterbacking on youtube is dead simple and stupid easy once someone else has done the work and shown you the answer. Keep up the good work, brother.
Agreed, 19 yrs in auto field, and you tend to see a few things, one thing is I never under estimate who done what, or what the culprit could be, I just use logic and walk it through.
AGREE . ! ! ! .
And just think, somebody, somewhere is saying " uh-oh " I remember sticking that fuse there.
Just curious EricO what that spare circuit was actually for; was it trailer adaptor or some police accessories system (don't think they use Hyundai's in Traffic Police but who knows). Don't suppose you have the time to go down that rabbit hole!
tomctutor yes! What is that for and why wasn’t it labeled - only to be an opportunity to screw with someone’s brain and end up costing lots of $?
@@tomctutor I would love to know too. Most of the time, unused fuse slots have no contacts in them. The ones that do have contacts, are for accessories or options that this particular vehicle doesn't have.
I can't think of a single option or accessory that would need to power up those circuits. It may be possible that this is some factory diagnostic item for when the car is being built, but I would love to know the actual answer!
I would guess it’s for the manufacturer to test everything with just 1 fuse and without populating the box
@@Bobbywolf64 apparently these cars were used as police cars (not sure if that was the case in USA though)
Dude, you're like a professor, you should be paid serious money to teach aspiring mechanics how to be proficient. Excellent work!
Dr. O. is a specialist. He will treat the common cold, but when you come to him for brain surgery, he's open for business, outstanding among many, and should be duly compensated.
Hyundai should've put a blank insulator into that fuse port to help prevent Joe Blow from installing a "missing fuse".
Damn straight!
That is the first thought I had. Eric you should contact Hyundi and ask them WTF.
How did Joe know what fuse to put in there? Good thing it was only a 10.
@@turboflush He tried a 5 amp fuse but it kept blowing the circuit, so he went up to a 10 amp fuse.
Upallnight
That’s is a very good point
I wish I could have seen the customer say "$500 to pull out a fuse!?!?" being ignorant and not knowing anything about the knowledge required to diagnose the problem to begin with. Great video!! Shows that even the simplest solution can take hours and hours to solve
I would simply tell the customer I fixed a short that was very difficult to find. If they will not pay the bill, I can put the fuse back. 😂
Not even a dealership could fix it they would sell the owner a new fuse box. Great work. !!!
And they would have put all the fuses back in and had the same problem.
@@whollymindless depends I have ordered many fuse boxes that already have fuses loaded in them. I always compare the diagrams.
Man, you are really gifted. Don't take that for granted. I hear you put yourself down sometimes and I wonder what the #$%% is he talking about. Most ASE Mechs can't hold a candle to you. I'm not blowing smoke up your butt. I appreciate your humility. But a gift is a gift! Just saying thanks is enough sometimes. You inspire me to not give up.
That was one of the most incredible diagnostic jobs I've every seen, I'm humbled !
Here's my problem with this video. This is a master class in the proper way to search for the root cause of the problem. Great, but my problem is, I don't have any mechanic within 200 miles of me who can do what you do. It's a long drive from Nova Scotia to SMA!
I watched from beginning to end. Was as good as a movie! So many twists and turns and smoking guns.
Yes
Yep, the shop was really belching smoke at 2 a.m. the night before!
🤣
"Sherlock Ohms"! Nice job, Eric! Love your work, family, and attitude. Best wishes, always.
Been working for Hyundai for over 13 years now and I’ve actually seen this exact issue 3 times. I believe 2 of them were used cars that were purchased at an auction. Now I know exactly where to go when a car comes in for this condition. Also I’ve noticed that the door locks don’t work with the remote and a few other things don’t work like they should. First time I came across this issue it took me around 3-4 hours to find it and I couldn’t believe that someone put a fuse in that spot and also couldn’t believe it took so long to find it but it isn’t something you see every day and something you definitely don’t expect. Good job on the diag, you went through the exact process and pain I went through. The only good thing for me is that I knew exactly where to go when the next 2 cars came in with that issue and I’ll know where to go in the future. Thanks for posting the video, hopefully it helps someone else
How come the factory wiring diagram doesn't show the wires attached to this (not a ) fuse?
It be interesting how the wiring is powering the relays as it shouldn't do anything putting a fuse in a unused slot (I keep 4 spare fuses in 4 slots that are unused in my fuse box)
So what you're saying is this is design flaw in the vehicle
It could be a design flaw, possibly they wanted to use that fuse location for something else and didn’t realize it until after production what was going on so instead of changing thousands of fuse boxes/wiring harnesses, they just blanked out the spot on the box/cover. They should have removed one of the pins after production so that if you did accidentally put a fuse in there then there wouldn’t be an issue. Most fuse boxes have spare fuses (including this box) but below the fuse will either be 2 blank spots or sometimes just 1 pin
Thanks much for the education. I hope I’ll remember to NEVER put a fuse where it isn’t indicated and if I encounter a parasitic draw to check for a parasitic fuse first. My GF gave up on a Pathfinder because it would stall out randomly and her mech couldn’t find why. A competent sleuth would have helped and many like her. Your ability to understand, rationalize and reason with electronics and related diagrams is a talent and ability I wish I had a better handle on. But watching you and others on RUclips U is a door to improvement.
That's some straight-up Sherlock Holmes stuff, amazing! A proud SMA T-Shirt owner.
Lifelong carpenter/drywaller here..... am I a mechanic... NO.... but here I am... WHY?.... because Eric.... YOU ARE THE MAN.... your abilities are many and extreme.... and.. well I'm curious about the nuts and bolts of stuff too.... love to the Mrs. !... and thanks Eric !
I spend a lot of time being jealous of you because I go to work where the guy in the captain's chair thinks I'm an idiot every time I print a wiring diagram for a diagnosis like this. He thinks hotline archive articles on Identifix are good enough to solve everything. Sometimes, he's right. But mostly, they cause just as many problems as they solve. What's more frustrating is he should be smart enough to know better. Keep doing exactly what you do, bill accordingly, and thanks for putting these videos out when you can.
I have a similar captain lol
I know this is an old thread but, dude you just saved my life. I was having the exact same problem, pulled the #4 fuse and it's fine now. Except I just cant believe that fuse isn't needed. I'm sure mine came from the factory with that fuse installed. I'm gonna start doing some serious digging but, thanks so much for posting. Guys like you are what makes YT great.
That car should be called "The OK Corral" many smoking guns. : )
Hey there, Justin's Girlfriend Heidi here. I have been confused by diagrams for a long time. You helped me understand a whole bunch more. Thank you love.
And this is why other shops bring you their jobs they can't figure out. Nice work Eric O.
I'm impressed by the number of shops that farm work out to Eric.
It's a shame RUclips only offers one thumbs up button per video. This one deserves so much more.
WOW nice work. I am an industrial breakdown electrician in Perth Australia. I come up against strange things like that all the time. They are a real head-scratcher. Good job finding the problem.
19 yrs in the auto field, and all I can say is well played, I agree with you, follow your logic, follow what make sense, most "Techs" would've either ripped into the back harness OR wouldn't have touched it and walked away. Love your videos, keep up the great work.
Better than Ivan LESS than no parts required! I would hate to write the bill that says 3 hours labor to remove a fuse(insert long explanation at bottom of bill). It would tick me off like the mysterious missing fuses. Wow thanks for your time putting yourself through it again just for us 335 thousand people.
Actually gained a part :-)
Showing the printed wiring diagrams with all the notes would help to explain the effort involved.
I wouldn't list it as "pulling a fuse", I'd list it as "extensive circuit tracing". That's what it was.
He removed a difficult to find short circuit. The short circuit just happened to be in the form of a fuse.
Yup. On the invoice: Parts: -2.98.
Our industry needs guys like you teaching the young mechanics starting out. Thank you for these videos, this was a good refresher for me.
This sort of issue would be a cash grab for a lot of garages. Great job Eric.
Willing to bet that most garages, including at the dealerships, wouldn't have been able to figure this out, either because they wouldn't have invested the time to diag it or they just lacked the skills and experience to do so. Eric offhandedly mentioned that this issue might've been the reason the car went to auction in the first place, and that was my first thought. I just imagine this car having gone to the Hyundai dealership multiple times for this with no resolution before the owner just threw up their hands and sold it.
Food For Thought take note right out the gate anything that has to do with power issues battery tail light headlight turn signal check fuse box check it twice maybe three. Make it a rule of thumb and then start all the Diagnostics when you've concluded that it's not the fuses or issue in the fuse box
@@akix2010 yes, but how often is this going to come up. I doubt anyone has seen this before, even Hyundai.
@@jae9843 I'll bet you're right! After much frustration the owner just gave up and traded off the car.
even though these videos already exist, this is a good reminder for everyone
I've started going to training for my dealer and It's such a satisfying feeling to finally able to keep up and understand what the heck that Eric is talking about lol like about the diagrams
Once again this shows where a true professional can overcome any problem, no matter how obscure, with knowledge experience and most of all patience. Your dedication to your craft is evident in everything you do and your customers are lucky to have a knowledgeable and caring technician working on their vehicles no matter what the cost. The potential for a "Parts Cannon" approach on a vehicle like this so great in other shops with techs who care only about Getting it out the door quickly and you took the (Over) time to get it done right. Thanks so much for your video's, and for showing what a bad day looks like in between all the good ones.
I appreciate the fact that you are not a parts changer and so many of your repairs come down to a bad wire or something plugged. Watching you work makes me miss my small hometown where you run into your mechanic at the grocery store or parents night at the elementary school. I like my mechanic’s shop because if I call up they know my voice, my car, my kids. However that takes a lot of looking for in the “Big City”. I would rather pay $500 for your knowledge than $500 for parts that I don’t really need. Love your channel. 👍👍☮️
Rumrunner
$500 in parts hung and still not fix the problem
Pure skill. Not knowing how to use a multimeter, but knowing what to do with it. Excellent troubleshooting.
Had me glued to the screen. Very good diagnosis, everyone would of called a fuse box. Actually would of solved it too, at the expense of the customer. Good job!
Well if I was the one working on it, I would have been anal enough to put all the fuses exactly where they were. Problem would probably still be there. 😂
Hey Eric. All because some idiot decided to install that rogue fuse - unbelievable. A great systematic diagnosis by you and very interesting for the not so talented onlookers. Hence the reason that we all subscribe and enjoy your videos. By the way your prodigy Ivan is progressively "snapping at your heels," ha- ha. Cheers from an expat Scot/Aussie now retired in Thailand.
Bravo,, always a pleasure to watch someone who excels at what they do. Just found this channel,,, really enjoying some of your older vids,, wish I'd found it 7 months ago when I changed the tranny on my Chevy 5.3 truck in my driveway. Took me 3 days of fumbling around like an idiot. One of the neighbors reported me to the HOA because of the loud 'sailor' language,, but hey,,, that's Florida for you.
Just flat amazed again at your ability. Your are a car Doctor... Not mechanic, not technician. Car doctor. love every video you do.
I hate electrical problems ! But I want to thank you for taking the time to show me how you attack a problem, it is appreciated.
This analysis and trouble shooting tutorial is WHY I SUBSCRIBE TO SMA.
And yes, charge the hours you put into the job. Your customers will thank you in the end especially if they think there car is unfixable. A $200 to $300 repair bill is much better than them having to go and buy/finance another car.
As I was watching I was thinking to myself that, Darn he would make a good doctor. Fact of the matter is he is a good doctor but he only operates on things that bleed oil. I love this channel and it has given me some good ideas incase of future problems. Thank you Mr. and Mrs. O. for the tips and processes. I am truly thankful and glad there are good mechanics out here doing an honest job.
Personal opinion here. When I worked for a car company for over 30 years, We were taught to look for an answer the simple way. Many times we had draw power issues showing up on our voltage meters.Batteries going dead. So we were taught check fuses first, inside and outside. Fifty percent of the time Missing or blown fuse was the problem. Then we did it the way you do it, for the other time,s it was not a fuse problem. It just saved time and energy .
Your diagnosis is superb as always. keep up the good work.
For vampire drains I put an ammeter on the battery and yank fuses. For an easy fix if a person is cheap I just add a relay to the offending circuit controlled by the switch. Kind of a reach around approach.
@@jefrhi No I pull out ALL the fuses, give time for capacitance to run down, then put them back in one at a time.
Eric, you did good by following your usual diagnostic process, instead of swapping parts in hoping to fix it. Charging for diagnostic time is fair, in my opinion.
I agree, you may get lucky "Easter Egging" the fuse box, but a plan with data will always point you in the correct direction! Great job as usual.
The bottom line is the customer didn't know how to fix the problem. He needed expert diagnosis and got it with South Main Auto Repair. Some garages just change out parts and still not repaired. Great job Eric O and great video.
Wow, amazing that a rogue fuse could cause such a mess. Great diagnosis work as always
::chuckles: "rogue fuse" that's a good one!
It’s nice to see a technician of your caliber not wasting his time doing brake jobs
Maybe they use that as a isolated test port at the factory. Either way, they should have a plug in the hole to prevent contaminants or people with too many fuses in their pocket from screwing everything up❗
Well said SIR.
That’s what I think it is too but factory usually uses a different method.. it is Korean ..
If one pops in there again (afterwards, or after any other work), I'd replace it with a blown one. Nevermind what I'd say to a mechanic that I caught inserting one in there!
☝😆
As a former hyundai tech myself, you are the man Eric O.
Excellent demonstration of electrical fault diagnosis and the importance of method. Thanks for another great video.
As much as I enjoy watching you turn wrenches, these are the kinds of videos I enjoy the most from you. I'm not an automotive mechanic. I'm a self taught heavy equipment mechanic, mainly skidloaders and excavators. And as machines become more electroic, they get harder and harder to diagnose. Especially when my small company refuses to plop down the money for the diagnostic equipment.
This video sounds like every day of my old job at the phone company as a switching center trouble shooter (retired now). Most troubles generally turned out to be wiring errors, crosses, shorts, and problematic components. Reading detached contact schematics skill was mandatory. Your trouble shooting methods were sound. Your circuit reading and reasoning were excellent. Good job.
I love following your electrical diagnostic thought pathways. Am learning so much and realizing that you follow common sense and logic, where a lot of shops don't. They just keep changing parts until they fix it or they don't. Great work Eric. Please keep the videos coming.
Okay! It's official. You sir, are a leaping screaming GENIUS. I am in awe you...again! On the one hand I would love to know how to do that. On the other, I hope I never learn how. Excellent video! I learn so much. Keep it up.
You have got to be the best technician I have ever seen, also extremely dedicated to finding the solution. There are a lot of guys I work with/have worked with and if they can't figure it out they call it quits and just say "take it to the dealership" but not you sir! I wish I was Josh to learn under you!!
I love this type of video Eric the thought process getting to the bottom of the problem is absolutely priceless, and all the diag time charges getting the job done right is well deserved...
A lot people doesn’t really understand that a good diagnostician saves you money in the long run vs parts changer guessing stuff ... 👍👍👍👍
Great diagnosis skills, doubt even the dealer would be able to do that.
This is actually my favorite kind of video you do! I would almost argue for increasing your labor rate for cars that have been messed with first! I'm sure I'm not alone when I say all of us in this trade have plenty of odd stories about auction and body shop cars!
Almost like a test in tech school where the teacher plants a problem that shouldn't be there. Problems made by others are some of the toughest to find. A problem like that takes so much time and patience a lot of techs will never find it. Great job.
This is an endless discussion by every trade in existence; price justification. My bottom line - I charge what I need for my expenses and life style. Customers are welcome to go else where; I even encourage it sometimes. I'm not the cheapest by far but so what; I don't have to be. My customers get fantastic service, excellent warranties and no excuses. 2200 of them keep coming back.
I appreciate you taking the time to recreate the troubleshooting process. If the customer is frustrated by the cost, think about the boat anchor they'd be left with after taking it to three or four shops with the same boat anchor to sit on their lot that he can't sell. I doubt anyone could have figured it out quicker unless it was a dealership that might have had a similar deal recently enough for someone to remember. You are my auto repair GURU!
Wow!! Wtf??! Now I don't recall having any "blank" spaces have pins (intact circuits) on BOTH slots in fuse boxes. Either they may have 1 (usually hot) or none. THAT is insane! What a loop! I really liked this diagnosis Eric! Diag.net worthy, for sure.
Yeah, being methodical is HUGE to this kind of work. Loved it! I can watch these kinds of vids all day long! 👍👍👍😊😊🤗🤗
IF there's an electrical draw , Eric o. can find it
Good find and a lesson learned that could stop someone throwing in the towel and getting rid of thier car. I'm not a mechanic but I have had faults in my own cars like this before.(battery going flat overnight). I do the normal check alternator voltage and see if charging. If ok the next thing is I always check fuse box cover "map" and see if there is anything that should not be there. Like in your case a fuse in a blank pin. My moto, KISS, keep it simple stupid before delving deeper. Keep up the great videos.
Another rainy day outside of Chicago, watching SMA.....or I call it Sherlock Holmes video.
We had two Hyundai cars both had parasitic drains. Both turned out being shorts in wires.
Due to critters like ground squirrels and mice chewing on wires. Found out they used Soy based wire cases.
Then neighbors car has vacuum leak in his Hyundai from chewed hoses.
I feel the frustration. And have seen fuses in blank spaces that were never explained.
Keep up the Detective work gumshoe.
Sherlock Ohms😊
I learn from your videos. When you show the wiring diagram and explain your process, it makes sense. This is probably why they got rid of the car. Mind blown
This is, for me, your best, #1, diagnostic video. I can’t tell you how many wrong guesses I made while watching you work your way throgh the problem. Excellent job! Thank you for taking the time to share.
Re: Diagnostic charges: I think you should always make a profit, your business, your family, depends on it. But. Your reputation also depends on customer satisfaction. Which means you’re sometimes not gonna make the best profit. ;-)
And. Why did they wire that fuse? Why isn’t it capped & labeled? Argh.
Great video. Thanks again.
I was going to go for water in one of the fuse pin terminals and rusting, but nope.
Your diagnostic abilities simply blow me away!
My shop has 5-7 tech's with 3 apprentices and 2-3 lube guys depending on who's quit or been hired with at least 1 apprentice being flat rate.
We run RO's off of an electronic shop repair order and part system that acts as a tower operator. Our advisors will put the work into the shop tagged with a category, this category will ensure only certain tech's will pull that job.
Most of the technician's will be able to pull anything that comes into the shop except straight basic oil changes or 'problem' diagnosis cars which go to me, S11 category.
I'm paid at a rate that is approximately 10% higher to compensate for the straight time aspect of diagnosis vs the gravy of doing brakes or major services. The shop rate still stays the same for this customer pay work.
Keep in mind that I can still pull any job that a normal tech can pull when there is no S11 catagory jobs booked in and am still paid at the higher rate. This makes up for many of the crap jobs that get thrown my way that the shop doesn't trust giving to just anyone.
And you are right, no matter which way you approach electrical diag keep your way the same. While pulling fuses may have found the draw it still would have messed you up trying to find a non existent circuit. Nice work👍
Very nice work indeed, SMA never ceases to amaze me (and ENTERTAIN,LOL);
BUT...here,i would have started by REMOVING fuses,NOTHING else, at first("that" one fuse even clicked a few relays!!!!!); but,NO...he grabbed the BIGGUN: the thermal imaging camera; if he did not have one ,the job would have gone faster; i see this ALL THE TIME (and i see the opposite ALL THE TIME too);
It's not a question of billing 5 hours @80 doll (OUCH!!!),it's a question of ....how long does an experienced EXPERT take to do the job; suppose tomorrow another car exactly like that one, comes in,draining the battery overnight: how much to charge then??!!
I always heard...the lousy mechanics make the most money.
@@josepeixoto3384 what ever time it takes to fix it (this is so obscure problem it can be time consuming find especially for the first time, a fuse in a empty slot shouldn't do anything as they should not be cross feeding stuff as that defeats the point of a fuse)
Typically this is a stuck relay that's causing the power draw or fault in the instrument panel so thermal cam can be useful to see what is warm spot in the car (like relay or ecu or hot fuse or cabling) even bad ground can cause all sorts of issues
@@josepeixoto3384 Sounds to me like you are kind of dissing Eric at the same time----"i would of started by REMOVING fuses"---it sure is easy to point fingers once it has been figured out for you! I get the feeling you also consider yourself a experienced EXPERT. We would have to see that to verify which we can't of course. I have run in to know-it-alls as well---the ones that always figured that they knew AFTER somebody else solved the problem. Great talkers, ONCE the problem was fixed by somebody else.
And again,YOU ARE THE MAN!
98% of shops would have jumped to conclusion spending your money throwing parts at this to no avail rather than spending the time testing everything.
I’ve talked and dealt with many mechanics you are the smartest mechanic I’ve ever seen. I try to watch all your videos. Idk what kind of comments you get from the keyboard warriors but most people just do guess work which is costly.
Your troubleshooting methodology is very good.
Worked in the electrical utility industry for 33 years. Been tasked looking for battery grounds inside a substation many times. Similar techniques are applied to locate these faulty grounds.
Nice video BTW, thanks.
Good job!
Parasitic draws are the worst.
Internal timers can be deceiving.
I'm an industrial electrician and have been for many years. Years ago when I was training as an electrician at a plastics factory in northern Indiana, there was a blow molding machine that had been running for probably 12 to 14 years maybe and one day it just decided to stop. We tried for 2 days to get it operating again but failed. This was a time way before computers so the control panel had close to 200 relays. The decision was made to bring in a lead electrician from one of the other plants from Baltimore. I had met him once before, a short heavyset fellow smoking a big cigar. (Way back when smoking was permitted in the plant). He opened the control panel and staired at it for about 10 minutes. Then asked for the prints (electrical drawings). By this time we had already discussed what the machine would and would not do and he narrowed it down to a particular circuit. After tracing the wires through the entire panel, verifying none were broken, cut or disconnected he stood back and scratched his head. Then started over only this time he said we need to verify each relay was working, that is opening and closing like it should. When he got to the 3rd or 4th relay he stopped, looked back at the print, then looked at the relay and his eyes opened all the way. This is wrong he said, this is suppose to a normally closed set of contacts but it's on a normally open set. With that he removed the cover from the relay and flipped over the contact block. Now it will run he said. I had my doubts since the machine had run for years prior to the breakdown. The machine was started and ran just as designed. I was puzzled. The only logical explanation was that the guy training me had changed them during our earlier attempts but he denied ever getting that deep into it. Either that or gremlins got into the panel. But it was a great lesson in troublrshooting.
Many years ago, I worked in a shop and had a range rover in for a service, everything was good until later in the day I went to drive it off of the ramp, it started up but would not drive, "4 days later" we found out that my boss had been messing around with the fuse box and saw an empty fuse slot, he put in the correct size fuse , turns out to be a fuse for when you have to tow the vehicle, it puts it into neutral, 4 days of fault finding , he never told anyone what he did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok.... that is just plain weird. Who would ever think that you could install a fuse into a space to tow a vehicle? Those British do almost everything upside down and backwards.
@@davidbrown1037 They drive on the wrong side of the road, it's to be expected.
@@davidbrown1037 Just found this David !! www.rangerovers.net/threads/if-you-ever-need-to-tow-your-rangie.10969/
@@davidbrown1037 it likely did not have the tow plug fitted on the back of the 4x4 (still mad that putting a fuse into a slot that is unused can cross feed into another system in the car, that really confuses me and for someone finding the fault would be frustrating for something as stupid simple as a fuse in an unused slot that shouldn't do anything )
Boss wins the I am supplying my team with food / barbecue / sponsorship to show my appreciation to my team .
Needs to cough up ?
I really wished I could find a mechanic like you near me. You really are top notch.
00:50 "This is the amperage draw on the car CURRENTLY" - great pun Eric. :)
dont worry about what those people in the comments talking about "i always check fuses first". If you dont have complete service information such as missing pin details it makes your job more difficult or the diagram just being wrong. Fantastic find, your game plan was solid, it worked and the car is fixed.
wonder why the thermal didnt pick it up. as always you are the man mr o. i run a mower shop and your videos has increased my electrical ability's 100 folds.
The fuses were just acting like a jumper wire completing a circuit - assuming their gauge was correct, no heat would be generated. The thermal camera shot he showed had relays visible which were engaged, and energized coils in relays do produce some heat, which is why the relays were visible using thermal imaging.
As Michael said, as it was a 10A fuse carrying only
Thank you so much. We have been fighting with our hyundai genesis for a couple of weeks now. It had the same problem. Saved us a ton of money by watching your video.
What a weird situation. Not so much a fault as a booby-trap. I wonder why the unused fuse holder was connected like that.
I wonder if it's for factory use, to provide ignition on power so the first set of keys can be programmed?
Fun tidbit: On a VW with keyless ignition, if you unhook all the door computers and let the car sit for a long time so all the caps completely discharge, when you hook the battery back up, you can turn the ignition on without a key in the car, and you can not turn it off until you unhook and rehook the battery!
Two thumbs up Eric!
Just a fuse in wrong place... Learned valuable info... Thanks for taking the time.
Thank you for this video. I'm a used car dealer and we just bought one and it has this same issue and the same fix. You saved us $$$$$, and we learned something new.
I thought iwas listening to Paul Harvey. You were building and building with excitement until you pointed to that blank fuse then BOOM. your excitement turns into the rest of the story.
Oh man, I miss Paul Harvey. Remember that Super Bowl commercial where he pays tribute to US Farmers? Made me shed a tear.
Jerry Moore R.I.P. Mr. Harvey, he was the best.
A solid and logical approach to troubleshooting. On the flight line, we teach similar methodology. Sometimes the simple answer is the root cause, but always prove that before letting it off the gate. Sometimes the simple answer must be proven by going around the block a couple times. So be it.
This video was freakin awesome! One of the best by Eric O! Who would ever think that inserting a fuse in a black spot in the fuse box would cause this much havoc on the system.
I'm wondering if that fuse was some sort of diag fuse to power on items to test?
Mr. O, you seemed to know the lesson to never let yourself be penalized for being good at what you do. I'm glad you billed for your efforts. I remember the very day that lesson was brought home to me. It's game changer. Now that I'm retired with a few damaged fuses and a couple blown ones, I enjoy your process a lot. It's a good one. Thanks for documenting your work.
Always do a voltage drop across your fuses first this is a 10 minute job to finding the circuit guiltily
If it runs through the fuse box at all
Still good job and new test method is food for thought
Yes I charge for diagnostic labour total this is a big part of today’s cars
Great video! Hyundai also had problems in the past with their 12v power outlets in their vehicles. If you had a cell phone, gps or other item with an internal battery plugged into the outlet and charging and turned off the vehicle, the internal battery of the item would power the radio display illumination circuit and cause a draw that would kill the battery. I used to work at a Hyundai dealership and we had this on numerous vehicles including the Tucson and Santa Fe.
Outstanding diagnostics follow the diagrams. Thx
LOL, he did, but they were incomplete since they seem to have not listed the mystery fuse.
The point is that it's fixed and the car can be sold without worry of it coming back to haunt you. On top of that you didn't put the fuse in the wrong place. Great job partner.
Man “ I wish you were in my area! You are awesome! And know what you are doing and seem to be a honest straight up guy ! Keep on rolling man! Thanks for the video
This guy is very thorough. Not necessarily a bad thing.
Still a good vid after the fact. Great work Eric. 💞
I swear you the man had this problem for awhile just pulled it and everything is back to normal dude hope both sides of your pillow stays cold love man much love
The fuse actually shows up on the thermal image if you look closely. It's just so much dimmer than the relays that you don't notice it.
It is also sitting slightly higher than all the other fuses, worth us all bearing this in mind in the future.
Great job Eric, sometimes it's better to walk away for a while & then reattack problem refreshed. This sort of work needs to be charged at a higher rate since its always your best mechanic doing the work, plus very few are suited to it.
Dam, Eric is high tech with the thermal imaging viewer!!!!
I agree. I been "thinking I needed one too". Right up there with finding hot circuits/breakers in the panel/wiring in the home. I loved the "back feeding discussion". Something in the "food chain" is shorted to ground and back feeding. Yep.
I wonder if you stuck a "fox/hound" noise generator on the Blue wire if the hound would have caught it on the "mystery fuse".
Great work Eric O. That's one of those head scratching jobs that most shops charge some diag and give up. Then it's off to the next shop for more of the same. Way I see it, you saved the used car guy a bunch of money in labor and unnecessary parts. Seriously, great job.
Nice one Eric.
I have to say i have had this a few times and even more the disappearing fuses also.
But its never the first thing i look for.
Bet you slept well though.
TRacking down electrical loops can really eat you lunch. Excellent advice and troubleshooting!