*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT* - If you are watching this video on 11/9/24 or 11/10/24 and you don't fall asleep before the end screen and you see that part II is listed as "Members Only." *DO NOT PANIC* Do not send me nasty emails, don't unsubscribe, don't tell me I am an asshole or a sellout in the comments and *DO NOT CALL MY SHOP* to tell me you can't watch it. The part II will be posted on the 11th at 5pm just like *I ALWAYS DO.* The reason it says members only is because there are some folks that support our RUclips channel by becoming a "RUclips Member" and it gives them early access to all videos I put out. Take a breath, slow down, everything is gonna be OK. Nothing has changed. It's still free like it has been for the past 10 years. Thanks for watching! -Eric O. Join here if you want early access - ruclips.net/channel/UCtAGzm9e_liY7ko1PBhzTHAjoin *The Original diagnosis* - ruclips.net/video/L3NrNQpuISE/видео.htmlsi=NBxcf-d-_5uS0VG0 *The Real Fix* - ruclips.net/video/OwcnB7UtzhE/видео.html
Yes, they call and call and call and call. It literally never stops. 98% of the time it is for something so stupid you wouldn't believe me unless you listened to the messages yourself. It will make you lose faith in humanity pretty quick let me tell ya.
@@SouthMainAuto Well I'd be lying if I said I was truly surprised. As for faith in humanity, I lost that way back in the 70's when folks were buying rocks as pets. People actually paid money to some company who put an average garden rock in a box and called it a Pet Rock.
I once took my car to a mechanic to get new tires. He said he put four new tires on and charged me $900. Seven years later I went back, furious, because I looked at my tires and there was barely any tread left. He said it was because I'd driven 60,000 miles. The nerve of these mechanics!
After watching your video....I innocently mentioned to the wife how beneficial back probing can be. I didn't even get an oportunity to explain.....no supper for me!! ;-( As usual SMA....Great Video!!
I actually love that you're product testing for Harbor Freight and giving them feedback. If they're actually listening, they have a great opportunity to sell a tool that gets close to your standards at a reasonable price.
It's been a surprise to me that software companies don't have a closer relationship with end users. Eric seems an excellent candidate for that kind of relationship because he sees big volume, is an intelligent and honest observer, and of course posts feedback from a working shop every week. Instead of being afraid of what end users will say, embrace it and make yourself better.
Consider the value Harbor Freight is getting from Eric: An expert who will field test your product and provide a list of bugs and user experience feedback for MONTHS… for $1600 retail (probably $800 or less cost). Amazing deal for HF.
@@michaelgleason4791 There are Autel scanners that cost $2,500, so it’s the same ballpark. But I agree, NOTHING seems worth what we pay for it anymore haha. Yay inflation!
I work for a fleet shop for taxis and we have about 12 dodge grand caravans. Very common for the brain box to stop working. The main issue i believe is the location of the brain box being in the wheel well makes it exposed to weather. Good luck Mr.O love the videos as always. I might have to stop by and say what's up I am only about 40 minutes away from you in buffalo.
That style Chrysler pcm, I have seen plenty of issues with them in other models as well. Prob replaced a dozen in the past 10 years. Other makes and models maybe 1-2 total
I believe he’s got a couple,young guys in there. A friend of mine from high school’s kid works for them. Said it can be hard learning all this, but worth the effort. It’s essentially a master class every day.
@@farmcentralohio exactly… he’s already teaching that’s the reason I scrolled down to comment… im 43 years old and I watch all of his videos even the brake job videos to support this guy . I tell everybody I work with that if you wanna learn how to fix cars correctly watch eric o from south main auto. I think he should run for president one day
15000 miles later after the computer is changed … not a come back!! Chrysler has bad computers in their automobiles…. I have replaced and reprogrammed several in mini vans and trucks… it just sucks that the public automatically blames the mechanic that last done work even though it’s not the mechanics fault… love the videos and I learn from you specially on the wiring checks for problems…
I'm wondering if you have to clear codes before condemning the PCM. In some driver systems, the computer is designed to react to low resistance by disabling the circuit as a self protective feature. It's frustrating and misleading that there is no warning when that happens. I have no idea if that is happening here but it's a thought.
I think the same,replacing the rear O2 would eliminate the doubt and possibility of it shorting anything. And with the PCM,you did what any of us would do,well some of us,saved them a buck and got them a used one. It’s anyones and no one’s guess how long a used pcm would last,or even a new one for that matter. Let’s face it,you did the right thing and made the sound calls for what you did. With todays aftermarket parts I’ve had new aftermarket parts broken upon arrival,fitment issues or flat not work. Here in Tennessee the rust and salt isn’t as bad as up there. But for the life of me I can’t fathom how a manufacturer believes it’s okay to put sensitive electronics in a wheel well or in a nasty area - the asd relay location on the Jeep compass,patriot and the like.
Old garbage like the van, it’s not always so easy to just replace it. You can pull the threads and have to weld in a new bung. Not the end of the world, BUT
@@mph5896 It would be an easy one if it was replaced in the last year by the dealership. Also mechanics in the salt belt know how not to destroy threads, Eric would be fine doing it.
Well, when I replaced my last O2 sensor the money light came back on after only a week. I called my nephew, has a shop, and he said a high percentage of the new sensors are bad. I warranted the sensor and I've been good!:) Thanks for all the diagnostic expertise!😊
No, a high percentage of the CHEAP JUNK SENSORS that your nephew is installing are bad. We install over a million a year on our assembly line and get maybe a handful of bad ones a year, and 99% of the time the root cause is a person dropped it, not a part issue. Buy OEM parts, get quality parts. Buy aftermarket crap, get aftermarket crap.
Good video ! If it's blowing brain boxes - kinda sounds like a short to Ground somewhere - maybe the harness has bare rubbed spot somewhere or the old brain box was used --- so just weak brain boxes --- Maybe put a fuse on the o2 sensor wire ---so if wire shorts to ground it blows the fuse instead of brain boxes. i guess i'll find out in a few days.
I had a upper 02 intermittent issue I fallow your teaching I tracked the wire after put new in and found a green pus fixed all good thank you sir for the educational guide lines
Wow! Eric, I used to live on North Main St in Houston, Texas, so I drove down and looked around for South Main Auto only to find you are 1200 miles away! Haha, thx for the help refining my skills!
As a great man is fond of saying "just because it's new doesn't mean it's any good"! That slightly used new O2 sensor is definitely suspect in my mind.
But when malice and ignorance are combined in a customer who feels hard done by, watch out for whining and shouting like you never heard before. Since last week, anyway. Causation and correlation are most people's weakness. They don't understand logic. Yet, somehow, they always seem sly enough to send used parts back to fleabay for a refund -- or used wrong part excuse.
Wow, this is a difficult one. You are actually taking a guess on the O2 sensor causing the PCM to die. I have no idea on what you have done what is causing it to fail. I hope it actually solves the problem and does not fail again in another 4 months and 15,000 miles putting you back to square one. Thank you for sharing this with us. I cannot use it myself but perhaps others can in their troubleshooting.
Man I just wanted to tell you your the best I have seen on hunting down shorts and things it just amazes me to watch you work and you have a very nice family your wife is so sweet but I bet she has fire when she's angry and your little girl is getting so cute but I just wanted tell you I love watching you work I have learned a lot thanks for the free lessons God bless you and family
Probably wouldnt hurt to amp clamp that circuit and run the engine to be sure your scan tool's special function is actually commanding the heater circuit. Also would be good to visit the o2 heater ground location even though your test light lights up. It's possible other things share that ground and load it when the vehicle is running.
I have an 85 Ford Bronco. I love watching your videos and seeing your diagnosis process. The wiring on it has been severely molested. It's not as advanced electronically as the cars you work on, but you give so many great tips. Thanks for your videos, and please keep them coming
So you alway make comments about how you don't know why people watch your videos LOL! Well yesterday I worked on 08 Highlander from the south. All of the coil harnesses crumbled into nothing. I was able to take the knowledge I learned from your videos and repinned them into a new connector instead of rewiring everything. It save SO MUCH time! Thank you for posting your videos.
Eric, I think you should warranty your repairs for 12 months/12,000 miles, whichever comes first. That would have avoided this return when the customer is doing either excessive or above average mileage. If they are a tinkerer then that's a further annoyance. I used to use a UV marker to discreetly indicate things I had fitted/adjusted. Sometimes, things weren't where I had left them set!
@@jimrusch22good warranty a mate of mine has a panel shop he supply a concrete guarantee! As soon as the owner drives from there concrete driveway and hits the bitumen road guarantee is over🤣🤣🤣 he does great work😁
More of a electronic tech myself. What if an intermittent short to ground in wiring from control module to O2 sensor? If it was my own vehicle i would investigate the possibility of putting a temp inline fuse around 4 amp to make sure i didn't blow the module again. Fuse blows, keep on lookin. I realize this may not be great as a shop troubleshooting method. Really enjoy your channel.
Should have a polyfuse or current monitoring in the pcm to protect against shorts. Poor design. An inline fuse would prevent damage but would probably cause a return visit.
@@SGray44444 Yes, those little surface mount polyfuses are cheap, and then it could have some code added to the code set criteria to set a code for "bank 1 sensor 2 O2 heater circuit current high" or "heater circuit shorted to low source". And then the PCM could disable the heater output until code is cleared.
That's actually a really good idea. At a 40% duty cycle it pulls about 2 and 1/2 amps roughly. I don't know what it takes to kill the driver in the PCM when it does short to ground. I wouldn't really know how to figure that out. Not a big electronics guy. I guess what I could do is measure the current when it's at 100% duty cycle and then just go and amp above that 🤷🏼♂️ That's a really good idea though thanks for sharing.
When in the biz of doing what you do, I would always state in writing on the invoice, that used parts NEVER had a warranty of any kind, unless the seller of the used part were willing to replace it, given the time/mileage on the part. AND that replacement labor of the used part, would be on the customer, if the part seller would not cover it. Electrical parts in most cases are never covered, even when new/oem, due to their exposure to outside influences that can smoke them, which is never the fault of the part itself. You proved yourself that the car was fixed the first time, by changing out the PCM. By no fault of yours that it failed again for a different reason/driver/control section/etc. I usually offered a 50/50 split in costs for these types of re-repairs when I felt the customer was worth keeping ....... but never free when used parts were involved.
How long should a PCM last? Guessing you'll say 13,000 miles. Chasing down why it failed at this point may be worth the effort. Used, new, same type of circuit is suspicious. The owner may not be giving Eric the whole story. Shops in my area are giving a two year warranty on work they do. The downside is they are high end and do not do aftermarket parts. They still screw up.
@@ronaldderooij1774 I didn't build it, I didn't buy it and I didn't break it. You're gonna be really disappointed in my closing statements on part two 😅
I have seen heaters short to ground when hot. internal failure inside the o2,that will kill the pcm driver almost instantly. so although you have 4 ohms I would also check heater to other wires as well and apply heat to check if you are replacing it anyway. I also think the problem could be the badge on the front of the grille but thats a different story. I also love to print out data when the customer comes in and says ever since. 2 years ago when you fixed my car and the light is back on hahahaha. great videos as always keep them coming,
Former powersports shop manager here. Generally, sixty days warranty on repairs. Maybe add a few days for good customer service in some situations. Four months is beyond the pale.
Definitely a fiddler and meddler… Especially when the dealer checks something out and they say nothing is wrong, but still charges you 250 bucks. Hey Eric, I appreciate your attention to detail and patience, especially those problems that could come back and bite ya.
As a tech of 50+ years, I have heard my share of ever since. Ever since you replaced the tail light bulb in my Ford, the water pump leaks in my Chevy. Or how about it never ran right since you worked on my car. Well how long ago did we work on it. I dunknow,,, four or five years.
Need more good guys like you. Around here we have to many lazy mechanics that would have just disconnected the light. Just recently I had a guy stuff a bolt in my AC drain so that I could come back later. And that was at the dealership.
I heard the scorpins in the backround playing no one like you, can i come by and jam out with you guys? Lol, thanks for the detailed step by step process
The rear O2 may indeed be intermittently shorted but the driver may still be good but is being locked out by the computer. Sometimes you have to clear the codes to get it to work even in a function test.
It seems interesting to me how test ground and driver voltage to O2 sensor (high side control), and control wire integrity, also liked unplugging it from ECM. It´s new to me believe me. The probe lamp is very old and reliable method to me, but until recently started to understand its usefullness. Thanks Erick you´re a huge learning tree for some folks like me.
In addition to the sensor, I would also closely inspect the harness because this is a high side driven circuit so an intermittent chaffing to ground harness could damage the driver.
Another great video Mr 'O' . O2 sensors are a pain...I had a Jag 3.0 X-Type AWD and kept blowing Bank 1 Upstream sensors brought new ones (from Jaguar Dealer 3 times) but again after a few months failed again... In the end I brought a second hand one from a scrapyard and that fixed the issue for good...very strange though.
Well, Eric O Im becoming a member it's so affordable and the content is great! Im hoping for the live streams to ask an auto-related question. As a viewer no name-calling here. Thank you Eric O!
Hmmm. What to do in these trying times? Well, you could ask Mrs O to make venison for dinner. It won't change anything on the car, but you'll be happier.
Good video. Have you watched Ivan's latest video, kind of similar problem, but his is a no start, then start, then no start. Very interesting. You and Ivan are the best video's to watch by far.
So on the same line. I had a 2002 VW passat 2.8 GLX with a similar issue. The reference voltage from the ECM was 23 - volts. to fix the issue I changed the pin out to the O2 sensor to a free pin in the ECM. That worked for me. Good Luck! AJ
As a DIYer, I wouldn't then take it to another shop and not tell them what I did or didn't do, just like I would not go to a Dr and lie about my symptoms. I mean being somewhat human, I understand the nature of being embarrassed, like slippin on the ice and even though your assbone may be broke, the first thing you do is look around and see if anybody was watchin. But that's not deception. Big diff. Also I am sorry people call you or leave messages, as it makes us all look like chumps. There is a reason prices are high on insurance and why it is a pita to file a claim. Too many idjits gaming the system. Anyhow, I hope you keep on keepin on, I love your mystery series the most, but would watch your bread and butter series every day and twice on Sundays because you put out good videos. But this is where our relationship ends. I will never call you, ever. I will keep leaving goofy comments and hopefully with a bit of humor, relay some of my speriences for you to read, shake your head, and mutter to yourself, not the Chevy guy again... Thanks Eric.
Hi Eric, I looked at the caravan in your video, then I looked in my driveway and gad zooks, I have the identical 2010/ 3.3/ auto/ with 177k miles. Please bring more of these vehicles in, I'm sure they will need service. Thanks...
So new-ish subscriber here. I promise I won’t ever call the shop. That’s just rude. Loving the content. You seem like a pretty cool fellow. As a matter of fact I now fully realize what it feels like to have a man-crush. 😊
Yeah - Another failure of a similar nature tends to make one very nervous about repeating the same repair! Tough one, Mr. O! I can't imagine what else I'd do at this point besides another PCM and another sensor... We'll see!
I was wondering if you could do some kind of review of the brands of scan tools. Not an "in-depth" but an overall general strength and weaknesses of the big players and what you chose and why. Rainman Ray is a Snap-On guy you are using new the Harbor Freight Icon unit but normally use your Aultel unit among others. Is there a significant difference ? Are one unit more reliable or easier to set up ? I don't expect secrets or tearing down competitors, just some useful information for us DIYers. Love your channel and give my best to your crew and family. You Rock !!!
I'd say to you Fix It Eric. If you say it needs it then I believe you. I've been around this electronic stuff to know that I certainly don't know. You are like my tech guy. He'll tell it like it is.
Eric, just in case you ever run into a vehicle you can’t fix here’s what a tech I used to work with in my youth used to tell the customer. Him: “You really need to consider trading the son of a bitch off.” Our service manager caught him telling a customer those exact words. To make a long story short, there are none that are not repairable. Usually, it requires learning a new skill by the tech. Great channel.
Another bad PCM that could really "drive(r)" a guy to drink.. The connector is attached to the PCM but that doesn't necessarily mean or guarantee the pins are making good or even a contact! Plug the new O2 sensor onto the harness and carry out the test again because you're going to put an new one on anyway.
I don't know what I would do! I know that Chrysler is notorious for grounding problems! I worked for them for a few years mostly brake and frontend but did lots of exhaust work as well and I seem to remember Bosch was the supplier for us in O2 sensors but I could be mistaken! Anyway good hunting!
I always err on the side of caution. If I didn't install it I don't trust it, even then I will replace a part just to rule out a potential issue. I learned a long time ago if I try to cut a corner or if I make assumptions, I screw myself every single time.
Before installing a new o2 I would consider just sticking a fuse in line to the heater circuit. Just incase it has rubbed through wires somewhere and is waiting to short again. As a new o2 and pcm could be on the next order list otherwise. And why is it possible to see the pcm and a tyre at the same time? Definitely something wrong there unless it’s water cooled. 👍
Before getting a replacement PCM I would check pin tension on the HEGO heater harness pin. Then I would clean the connector pins and PCM pins with Deoxit D5 and cycle the connector a couple of times, then recheck if the circuit is working. If so, then I would clean all of the connectors and PCM pins and cycle each connector a couple of times.
I too would replace that rear O2 sensor as a precaution. Small price to pay to insure the OEM sensor is not shorting out & destroying the driver in the PCM.
Don'cha just love that sence of uncertainty in being a mechanic? We all have diagonosis like this to puzzle our minds ocasionally., Hope everything tuerns out good on this one.
Two part question for you. But first I’d like to preface by saying that I know it’s annoying for people to ask car questions on here, but im gonna. Only because it’s just so coincidental it’s same car and engine and also related to o2 sensors. And your the carry-van expert, lol. My issue is low mpg and also sometimes fuel smell. Or maybe i should say petroleum based smell since my sense of smell hasnt been the same since rona. Smell heaver when I turn on blower. I just ordered upstream o2 (Bosch) in attempt to correct low mpg and gas smell. Sometimes there’s no fuel smell and mpg seems to act normal, as far i can tell. My thought is the o2 sensor is slow or broken and intermittent and commanding the fuel trims high. I did check for actual fuel leaks but didn’t find any. Just realized I didn’t have key on to build pressure when I checked. I’ll do this when I put on sensor. Im just asking if this logic is good or should check something else? No codes btw. Second part, how do I know who the oem manufacturer is for parts, is there a database? I usually go by how the part looks. For instance this Bosch o2 “looks” the most like the mopar. The ntk looks different. Anyway thanks in advance
I was having similar MPG and fuel smell issues on my truck. It was intermittent. I finally found that output of the fuel pump had a hairline crack that would open up with higher temperature and spray fuel. I don’t drive that truck a lot so it took some time to find it.
Eric I apologize in advance if this question has been answered previously. Curious why you series up two test lights to check the wire integrity instead of just powering up the wire with one bulb at the end.
*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT* - If you are watching this video on 11/9/24 or 11/10/24 and you don't fall asleep before the end screen and you see that part II is listed as "Members Only." *DO NOT PANIC* Do not send me nasty emails, don't unsubscribe, don't tell me I am an asshole or a sellout in the comments and *DO NOT CALL MY SHOP* to tell me you can't watch it. The part II will be posted on the 11th at 5pm just like *I ALWAYS DO.* The reason it says members only is because there are some folks that support our RUclips channel by becoming a "RUclips Member" and it gives them early access to all videos I put out. Take a breath, slow down, everything is gonna be OK. Nothing has changed. It's still free like it has been for the past 10 years.
Thanks for watching!
-Eric O.
Join here if you want early access - ruclips.net/channel/UCtAGzm9e_liY7ko1PBhzTHAjoin
*The Original diagnosis* - ruclips.net/video/L3NrNQpuISE/видео.htmlsi=NBxcf-d-_5uS0VG0
*The Real Fix* - ruclips.net/video/OwcnB7UtzhE/видео.html
This comment is another one of those "working with the public" skills in actions hahaha
People call the shop???? It's times like that, that I understand the creation of the flamethrower.
Yes, they call and call and call and call. It literally never stops. 98% of the time it is for something so stupid you wouldn't believe me unless you listened to the messages yourself. It will make you lose faith in humanity pretty quick let me tell ya.
@@SouthMainAuto Well I'd be lying if I said I was truly surprised. As for faith in humanity, I lost that way back in the 70's when folks were buying rocks as pets. People actually paid money to some company who put an average garden rock in a box and called it a Pet Rock.
@@SouthMainAutoas a teacher and former auto tech (lots of time with the public) this is a accurate statement.
I once took my car to a mechanic to get new tires. He said he put four new tires on and charged me $900. Seven years later I went back, furious, because I looked at my tires and there was barely any tread left. He said it was because I'd driven 60,000 miles. The nerve of these mechanics!
Always trying to upsell you!
$5 says this happens at every Costco location about once a week.
Eric, Your channel should be mandatory viewing for dealership techs.
And automotive tech students!
Don't forget Ivan too!
Why? They're all leaving.
@@TargaWheels😂Good point
Why? The dealership won’t pay their so called techs to fix anything. They just throw parts at them.
After watching your video....I innocently mentioned to the wife how beneficial back probing can be. I didn't even get an oportunity to explain.....no supper for me!! ;-( As usual SMA....Great Video!!
😂
😂
OMG!! 💀 🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha
Perhaps she's more in tune with gently front probing?
Eric...... you replaced my brake pads 10 years ago. Now I need new ones. I don't expect to pay you as I've already paid..... ! 😅
I actually love that you're product testing for Harbor Freight and giving them feedback. If they're actually listening, they have a great opportunity to sell a tool that gets close to your standards at a reasonable price.
It's been a surprise to me that software companies don't have a closer relationship with end users. Eric seems an excellent candidate for that kind of relationship because he sees big volume, is an intelligent and honest observer, and of course posts feedback from a working shop every week. Instead of being afraid of what end users will say, embrace it and make yourself better.
Consider the value Harbor Freight is getting from Eric: An expert who will field test your product and provide a list of bugs and user experience feedback for MONTHS… for $1600 retail (probably $800 or less cost). Amazing deal for HF.
$1600 is definitely not a reasonable price. I'd rather get an Autel (I mean, I already have one, but if I had to choose) or Think Tool Pro.
@@michaelgleason4791 There are Autel scanners that cost $2,500, so it’s the same ballpark. But I agree, NOTHING seems worth what we pay for it anymore haha. Yay inflation!
The only thing that harbor freight will be selling in a year is the Epic line. It'll be nice to see parts made in the US again as tariffs ramp up.
I work for a fleet shop for taxis and we have about 12 dodge grand caravans. Very common for the brain box to stop working. The main issue i believe is the location of the brain box being in the wheel well makes it exposed to weather. Good luck Mr.O love the videos as always. I might have to stop by and say what's up I am only about 40 minutes away from you in buffalo.
That style Chrysler pcm, I have seen plenty of issues with them in other models as well. Prob replaced a dozen in the past 10 years. Other makes and models maybe 1-2 total
Please Eric, before you retire teach some young willing mechanic wannabes at the local level! We need great mechanics like you.
Pretty sure he already has had a couple of young mechanics go through the shop, plus Hanna and Marie
Yes. He would make a wonderful teacher. OH, he already is...
I believe he’s got a couple,young guys in there. A friend of mine from high school’s kid works for them. Said it can be hard learning all this, but worth the effort. It’s essentially a master class every day.
He's already teaching thousands of people, you're watching it :)
@@farmcentralohio exactly… he’s already teaching that’s the reason I scrolled down to comment… im 43 years old and I watch all of his videos even the brake job videos to support this guy . I tell everybody I work with that if you wanna learn how to fix cars correctly watch eric o from south main auto. I think he should run for president one day
14,000 Miles is far longer than any comeback should even be considered.
Thank you for spending your time calling Harbor fright (and I assume others) for issues with scan tools. This has to benefit the community greatly!
15000 miles later after the computer is changed … not a come back!! Chrysler has bad computers in their automobiles…. I have replaced and reprogrammed several in mini vans and trucks… it just sucks that the public automatically blames the mechanic that last done work even though it’s not the mechanics fault… love the videos and I learn from you specially on the wiring checks for problems…
That car has livery plates on it. Bet that thing makes a lot of trips to Buffalo airport.
About 5 years back my local independent repair shop fixed a leaking tire and now the frame is rusting out! 😠
I love watching these diagnostic videos. It's like a game of clue.
Thanks again, Eric!
Does this mean we get to take a field trip to Willbert's? Always love the field trips.
Not a sponsor
@RandyLaheySunnyvale lol
I agree with BTC, "an intermittent chaffing to ground harness could damage the driver".
Stay tuned 😏
@@SouthMainAuto I smell a money shot coming!!
How could that be ? The driver sits in the cab .
This is a cab 🚕
Your public service message gave me a chuckle, regardless of how sad it was you had to give it.
About 15% of the population is completely brain dead.
I'm wondering if you have to clear codes before condemning the PCM. In some driver systems, the computer is designed to react to low resistance by disabling the circuit as a self protective feature. It's frustrating and misleading that there is no warning when that happens. I have no idea if that is happening here but it's a thought.
Great point, that is something to watch out for.
Yes that is true. PCM's often shut down circuits that coincide with the code. Very common on modern cars
I think the same,replacing the rear O2 would eliminate the doubt and possibility of it shorting anything. And with the PCM,you did what any of us would do,well some of us,saved them a buck and got them a used one. It’s anyones and no one’s guess how long a used pcm would last,or even a new one for that matter. Let’s face it,you did the right thing and made the sound calls for what you did. With todays aftermarket parts I’ve had new aftermarket parts broken upon arrival,fitment issues or flat not work. Here in Tennessee the rust and salt isn’t as bad as up there. But for the life of me I can’t fathom how a manufacturer believes it’s okay to put sensitive electronics in a wheel well or in a nasty area - the asd relay location on the Jeep compass,patriot and the like.
O2 sensors are cheaper than PCMs! I, too, would replace that o2 sensor just to be safe! Great video!
and also a lot less work. Absolutely no reason not to change it just to be safe.
Old garbage like the van, it’s not always so easy to just replace it. You can pull the threads and have to weld in a new bung. Not the end of the world, BUT
@@mph5896 It would be an easy one if it was replaced in the last year by the dealership. Also mechanics in the salt belt know how not to destroy threads, Eric would be fine doing it.
Well, when I replaced my last O2 sensor the money light came back on after only a week. I called my nephew, has a shop, and he said a high percentage of the new sensors are bad. I warranted the sensor and I've been good!:) Thanks for all the diagnostic expertise!😊
A high percentage of new parts are bad.
No, a high percentage of the CHEAP JUNK SENSORS that your nephew is installing are bad. We install over a million a year on our assembly line and get maybe a handful of bad ones a year, and 99% of the time the root cause is a person dropped it, not a part issue.
Buy OEM parts, get quality parts. Buy aftermarket crap, get aftermarket crap.
Eric, Im 65, retired from the automotive repair business of nearly 40 years. Apologize for Nothing. You rock, Sir
Good video ! If it's blowing brain boxes - kinda sounds like a short to Ground somewhere - maybe the harness has bare rubbed spot somewhere or the old brain box was used --- so just weak brain boxes --- Maybe put a fuse on the o2 sensor wire ---so if wire shorts to ground it blows the fuse instead of brain boxes.
i guess i'll find out in a few days.
or, just your typical crapsler, dodgey, (bum)rammed vehicles...
I had a upper 02 intermittent issue I fallow your teaching I tracked the wire after put new in and found a green pus fixed all good thank you sir for the educational guide lines
Green pus???
I learn something every time. Thank you Eric!
Wow! Eric, I used to live on North Main St in Houston, Texas, so I drove down and looked around for South Main Auto only to find you are 1200 miles away! Haha, thx for the help refining my skills!
As a great man is fond of saying "just because it's new doesn't mean it's any good"! That slightly used new O2 sensor is definitely suspect in my mind.
Your the Best Eric. If the customer can't trust you they can't trust anybody. Stay Safe.
Thanks for the video Eric. I am looking forward to part two.
When dealing with the general public, never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance.
But when malice and ignorance are combined in a customer who feels hard done by, watch out for whining and shouting like you never heard before. Since last week, anyway. Causation and correlation are most people's weakness. They don't understand logic. Yet, somehow, they always seem sly enough to send used parts back to fleabay for a refund -- or used wrong part excuse.
Wow, this is a difficult one. You are actually taking a guess on the O2 sensor causing the PCM to die. I have no idea on what you have done what is causing it to fail. I hope it actually solves the problem and does not fail again in another 4 months and 15,000 miles putting you back to square one. Thank you for sharing this with us. I cannot use it myself but perhaps others can in their troubleshooting.
Love the detective work, Eric. Thanks as always.
Man I just wanted to tell you your the best I have seen on hunting down shorts and things it just amazes me to watch you work and you have a very nice family your wife is so sweet but I bet she has fire when she's angry and your little girl is getting so cute but I just wanted tell you I love watching you work I have learned a lot thanks for the free lessons God bless you and family
Probably wouldnt hurt to amp clamp that circuit and run the engine to be sure your scan tool's special function is actually commanding the heater circuit. Also would be good to visit the o2 heater ground location even though your test light lights up. It's possible other things share that ground and load it when the vehicle is running.
Stay tuned 😏
I have an 85 Ford Bronco. I love watching your videos and seeing your diagnosis process. The wiring on it has been severely molested. It's not as advanced electronically as the cars you work on, but you give so many great tips. Thanks for your videos, and please keep them coming
Thanks for the great O2 sensor test procedure tip! I hope you and the family have a great weekend! God bless
Been learning so much from your channel MR O! Thanks for your time and effort 👍
So you alway make comments about how you don't know why people watch your videos LOL!
Well yesterday I worked on 08 Highlander from the south. All of the coil harnesses crumbled into nothing. I was able to take the knowledge I learned from your videos and repinned them into a new connector instead of rewiring everything. It save SO MUCH time!
Thank you for posting your videos.
Eric, I think you should warranty your repairs for 12 months/12,000 miles, whichever comes first. That would have avoided this return when the customer is doing either excessive or above average mileage. If they are a tinkerer then that's a further annoyance. I used to use a UV marker to discreetly indicate things I had fitted/adjusted. Sometimes, things weren't where I had left them set!
Uv marker is very smart
I'm thinking the video title is humor. There's no warranty on used parts for more than 30 days, if any, from most repair shops.
Used parts? 50/50 warrantee. That’s 50 feet or 50 seconds, which ever comes first.
@pj4534 Ah, didn't think of that.
@@jimrusch22good warranty a mate of mine has a panel shop he supply a concrete guarantee! As soon as the owner drives from there concrete driveway and hits the bitumen road guarantee is over🤣🤣🤣 he does great work😁
That really sucks! I’m sorry this happened.
More of a electronic tech myself. What if an intermittent short to ground in wiring from control module to O2 sensor? If it was my own vehicle i would investigate the possibility of putting a temp inline fuse around 4 amp to make sure i didn't blow the module again. Fuse blows, keep on lookin. I realize this may not be great as a shop troubleshooting method. Really enjoy your channel.
Should have a polyfuse or current monitoring in the pcm to protect against shorts. Poor design. An inline fuse would prevent damage but would probably cause a return visit.
@@SGray44444 Yes, those little surface mount polyfuses are cheap, and then it could have some code added to the code set criteria to set a code for "bank 1 sensor 2 O2 heater circuit current high" or "heater circuit shorted to low source". And then the PCM could disable the heater output until code is cleared.
That's actually a really good idea. At a 40% duty cycle it pulls about 2 and 1/2 amps roughly. I don't know what it takes to kill the driver in the PCM when it does short to ground. I wouldn't really know how to figure that out. Not a big electronics guy. I guess what I could do is measure the current when it's at 100% duty cycle and then just go and amp above that 🤷🏼♂️ That's a really good idea though thanks for sharing.
@@3dzee153 or just run new wire
Josh is rocking to the Scorpions in the background!! "There's No one like YOU!!"
My cat disapproves of that throttle body! 😀
Loving that zip-tie bumper repair. Classic!
When in the biz of doing what you do, I would always state in writing on the invoice, that used parts NEVER had a warranty of any kind, unless the seller of the used part were willing to replace it, given the time/mileage on the part. AND that replacement labor of the used part, would be on the customer, if the part seller would not cover it. Electrical parts in most cases are never covered, even when new/oem, due to their exposure to outside influences that can smoke them, which is never the fault of the part itself. You proved yourself that the car was fixed the first time, by changing out the PCM. By no fault of yours that it failed again for a different reason/driver/control section/etc. I usually offered a 50/50 split in costs for these types of re-repairs when I felt the customer was worth keeping ....... but never free when used parts were involved.
A great video and a great mechanic that's well equipped. Thank you.
Another great diagnostic video, Eric! 14,000 miles since the repair, don’t count as a comeback as far as you being at fault.
It depends on the guarantee he gives. If it is like Pine Hollow Auto diagnostics a year guarantee, Eric must eat it, his fault or not.
Especially, if the owner is messing around with it!
Maybe not, but happy customers keep coming back.
How long should a PCM last? Guessing you'll say 13,000 miles. Chasing down why it failed at this point may be worth the effort. Used, new, same type of circuit is suspicious. The owner may not be giving Eric the whole story. Shops in my area are giving a two year warranty on work they do. The downside is they are high end and do not do aftermarket parts. They still screw up.
@@ronaldderooij1774 I didn't build it, I didn't buy it and I didn't break it. You're gonna be really disappointed in my closing statements on part two 😅
I have seen heaters short to ground when hot. internal failure inside the o2,that will kill the pcm driver almost instantly. so although you have 4 ohms I would also check heater to other wires as well and apply heat to check if you are replacing it anyway. I also think the problem could be the badge on the front of the grille but thats a different story. I also love to print out data when the customer comes in and says ever since. 2 years ago when you fixed my car and the light is back on hahahaha. great videos as always keep them coming,
Former powersports shop manager here. Generally, sixty days warranty on repairs. Maybe add a few days for good customer service in some situations. Four months is beyond the pale.
Definitely a fiddler and meddler… Especially when the dealer checks something out and they say nothing is wrong, but still charges you 250 bucks.
Hey Eric, I appreciate your attention to detail and patience, especially those problems that could come back and bite ya.
Great diagnostic video. Very helpful. Next video another trip to Wilbur's please......
As a tech of 50+ years, I have heard my share of ever since. Ever since you replaced the tail light bulb in my Ford, the water pump leaks in my Chevy. Or how about it never ran right since you worked on my car. Well how long ago did we work on it. I dunknow,,, four or five years.
Not too worry Brother We are still in your Corner!
Need more good guys like you. Around here we have to many lazy mechanics that would have just disconnected the light. Just recently I had a guy stuff a bolt in my AC drain so that I could come back later. And that was at the dealership.
You might want to check the pin drag on the plug to the computer to see if it could be loose. Ivan is always doing that. Sometimes a fix.
Agree. Replace O2 sensor. Then you start fresh with diagnosis.
I heard the scorpins in the backround playing no one like you, can i come by and jam out with you guys? Lol, thanks for the detailed step by step process
Nope. No thank you. This is one instance where ONLY you can do it!lol! Great video, always frustrating to see a used part go belly up!
The rear O2 may indeed be intermittently shorted but the driver may still be good but is being locked out by the computer. Sometimes you have to clear the codes to get it to work even in a function test.
Stay tuned 😉
@@SouthMainAuto Well, I was close! 😅
It seems interesting to me how test ground and driver voltage to O2 sensor (high side control), and control wire integrity, also liked unplugging it from ECM. It´s new to me believe me. The probe lamp is very old and reliable method to me, but until recently started to understand its usefullness. Thanks Erick you´re a huge learning tree for some folks like me.
In addition to the sensor, I would also closely inspect the harness because this is a high side driven circuit so an intermittent chaffing to ground harness could damage the driver.
Something blew the pcm. Dont see short to ground in wiring. I would definitely replace o2 sensor for precaution .
Another great video Mr 'O' . O2 sensors are a pain...I had a Jag 3.0 X-Type AWD and kept blowing Bank 1 Upstream sensors brought new ones (from Jaguar Dealer 3 times) but again after a few months failed again... In the end I brought a second hand one from a scrapyard and that fixed the issue for good...very strange though.
Well, Eric O Im becoming a member it's so affordable and the content is great! Im hoping for the live streams to ask an auto-related question. As a viewer no name-calling here. Thank you Eric O!
Hmmm. What to do in these trying times? Well, you could ask Mrs O to make venison for dinner. It won't change anything on the car, but you'll be happier.
Saludos Eric 👍
Good video. Have you watched Ivan's latest video, kind of similar problem, but his is a no start, then start, then no start. Very interesting. You and Ivan are the best video's to watch by far.
So on the same line. I had a 2002 VW passat 2.8 GLX with a similar issue. The reference voltage from the ECM was 23 - volts. to fix the issue I changed the pin out to the O2 sensor to a free pin in the ECM. That worked for me. Good Luck! AJ
GAWD DANG DEM
DODGES AND THEIR FAULTY PCM’S. I have replaced 3 of them in my hoopie Caravan too. 😂
As a DIYer, I wouldn't then take it to another shop and not tell them what I did or didn't do, just like I would not go to a Dr and lie about my symptoms. I mean being somewhat human, I understand the nature of being embarrassed, like slippin on the ice and even though your assbone may be broke, the first thing you do is look around and see if anybody was watchin. But that's not deception. Big diff. Also I am sorry people call you or leave messages, as it makes us all look like chumps. There is a reason prices are high on insurance and why it is a pita to file a claim. Too many idjits gaming the system. Anyhow, I hope you keep on keepin on, I love your mystery series the most, but would watch your bread and butter series every day and twice on Sundays because you put out good videos. But this is where our relationship ends. I will never call you, ever. I will keep leaving goofy comments and hopefully with a bit of humor, relay some of my speriences for you to read, shake your head, and mutter to yourself, not the Chevy guy again... Thanks Eric.
Hi Eric, I looked at the caravan in your video, then I looked in my driveway and gad zooks, I have the identical 2010/ 3.3/ auto/ with 177k miles.
Please bring more of these vehicles in, I'm sure they will need service. Thanks...
I would swap out the O2 sensor and the pcm. There might be a possibility the O2 sensor shorted but not showing now. Thanks for the video
So new-ish subscriber here. I promise I won’t ever call the shop. That’s just rude. Loving the content. You seem like a pretty cool fellow. As a matter of fact I now fully realize what it feels like to have a man-crush. 😊
You made good decisions Id do they same like you say when it heats up it might short out brain from some internal failure when O2 sensor goes scorch !
Yeah - Another failure of a similar nature tends to make one very nervous about repeating the same repair! Tough one, Mr. O! I can't imagine what else I'd do at this point besides another PCM and another sensor... We'll see!
Thanks bud I always have liked your Chanel it's a good source of informative info
14,000 miles in 4 months. Wow. That's 42,000 miles in a year. Eric, did they change the Oil at least twice since you saw it last?
🤷🏼♂️
@@SouthMainAutowonder if they’re using e85 or worse?
@SouthMainAuto what's an oil change any more, lol am I right
It’s surprising how far may Avocans drive to get to work. 40-60 miles each way is super common.
Thank you for another Great video. Cheers
I was wondering if you could do some kind of review of the brands of scan tools. Not an "in-depth" but an overall general strength and weaknesses of the big players and what you chose and why. Rainman Ray is a Snap-On guy you are using new the Harbor Freight Icon unit but normally use your Aultel unit among others. Is there a significant difference ? Are one unit more reliable or easier to set up ? I don't expect secrets or tearing down competitors, just some useful information for us DIYers. Love your channel and give my best to your crew and family. You Rock !!!
Very good vid, thanks for taking us along.
Son of a mother lover is right. Im working on o2 prob right now. Thanks for this video. Good info
Everyone I know including me (10 of us), who had a caravan -the transmission went out. She's lucky it's not in limp mode.
that will be next months video.....
Well, it appears to be bad luck. Looking forward to Pt. 2. Take care!
I'd say to you Fix It Eric. If you say it needs it then I believe you. I've been around this electronic stuff to know that I certainly don't know. You are like my tech guy. He'll tell it like it is.
I knew it needed an ECM because on the previous video you said you put one in, while talking about the Harbor Frought scanner!
You are a wealth of knowledge sir.
I mean, it's a DODGE, what did we expect :P
This is one Eric should have dodged.
correct, a 14yo caravan with 190,000+ miles, something breaks on it everyday. I had one. It throws codes faster than you can fix them.
@@orbitalair2103pos!!!! NEVER buy Chrysler products!!!
Eric, just in case you ever run into a vehicle you can’t fix here’s what a tech I used to work with in my youth used to tell the customer. Him: “You really need to consider trading the son of a bitch off.” Our service manager caught him telling a customer those exact words. To make a long story short, there are none that are not repairable. Usually, it requires learning a new skill by the tech. Great channel.
Another bad PCM that could really "drive(r)" a guy to drink.. The connector is attached to the PCM but that doesn't necessarily mean or guarantee the pins are making good or even a contact! Plug the new O2 sensor onto the harness and carry out the test again because you're going to put an new one on anyway.
I don't know what I would do! I know that Chrysler is notorious for grounding problems! I worked for them for a few years mostly brake and frontend but did lots of exhaust work as well and I seem to remember Bosch was the supplier for us in O2 sensors but I could be mistaken! Anyway good hunting!
I always err on the side of caution. If I didn't install it I don't trust it, even then I will replace a part just to rule out a potential issue. I learned a long time ago if I try to cut a corner or if I make assumptions, I screw myself every single time.
Before installing a new o2 I would consider just sticking a fuse in line to the heater circuit. Just incase it has rubbed through wires somewhere and is waiting to short again. As a new o2 and pcm could be on the next order list otherwise.
And why is it possible to see the pcm and a tyre at the same time? Definitely something wrong there unless it’s water cooled. 👍
Interesting I’ll wait to see the outcome
Before getting a replacement PCM I would check pin tension on the HEGO heater harness pin. Then I would clean the connector pins and PCM pins with Deoxit D5 and cycle the connector a couple of times, then recheck if the circuit is working. If so, then I would clean all of the connectors and PCM pins and cycle each connector a couple of times.
Great stuff. I agree with your concern for the oxygen sensor, seems like safe insurance.
I too would replace that rear O2 sensor as a precaution. Small price to pay to insure the OEM sensor is not shorting out & destroying the driver in the PCM.
Don'cha just love that sence of uncertainty in being a mechanic? We all have diagonosis like this to puzzle our minds ocasionally., Hope everything tuerns out good on this one.
Thanks again for another very informative video.
Missed a perfect opportunity to break into song when you said “caught in a trap” and I honestly thought you were going to
Two part question for you. But first I’d like to preface by saying that I know it’s annoying for people to ask car questions on here, but im gonna. Only because it’s just so coincidental it’s same car and engine and also related to o2 sensors. And your the carry-van expert, lol. My issue is low mpg and also sometimes fuel smell. Or maybe i should say petroleum based smell since my sense of smell hasnt been the same since rona. Smell heaver when I turn on blower. I just ordered upstream o2 (Bosch) in attempt to correct low mpg and gas smell. Sometimes there’s no fuel smell and mpg seems to act normal, as far i can tell. My thought is the o2 sensor is slow or broken and intermittent and commanding the fuel trims high. I did check for actual fuel leaks but didn’t find any. Just realized I didn’t have key on to build pressure when I checked. I’ll do this when I put on sensor. Im just asking if this logic is good or should check something else? No codes btw. Second part, how do I know who the oem manufacturer is for parts, is there a database? I usually go by how the part looks. For instance this Bosch o2 “looks” the most like the mopar. The ntk looks different. Anyway thanks in advance
I was having similar MPG and fuel smell issues on my truck. It was intermittent. I finally found that output of the fuel pump had a hairline crack that would open up with higher temperature and spray fuel. I don’t drive that truck a lot so it took some time to find it.
Eric and Ivan are not such great techs, but also great teachers.
Eric I apologize in advance if this question has been answered previously. Curious why you series up two test lights to check the wire integrity instead of just powering up the wire with one bulb at the end.
Likely to get close to the same resistance he expected of the sensor so it’ll hopefully draw about the same amount of power.