Tech Tip Tuesday: RIFE Sensors IAT Sensors Make a HUGE Difference
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- EFI systems are great, and so is the data that goes along with it to inform us about our run so we can make changes. However, without accurate, fast, reliable data, are you really making good calls or decisions? As with many areas in technology, EFI system have evolved, however, some of the sensors we use or are commonly used have not. Sample rates, data accuracy, and durability have not been a huge topic compared to systems themselves.
Today we talk about IAT sensors. We all are quick to believe what a sensor tells us, but does that mean its accurate? No... Watch this video and we will show you why the 90s technology IAT sensors commonly used by so many manufacturers can be wrong and dangerous to your racing program.
To get your RIFE sensor click the link below!
Lo-IAT -30-335 degrees
www.motionraceworks.com/produ...
Hi-IAT -10-485 degrees
www.motionraceworks.com/produ... 
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Looks like the old gm one maxes out at 163*, that’d explain the flat line then the sudden drop to 125*. Much more reliable data! Nice tip!
Glad to see someone showing the importance of the sensor and how just picking the norm can hold you back👍
Always enjoy and learn more with tech tip Tuesday
No idea, glad you shared that with us,thanks. F.a.s.t efi 2.0 and xfi 2.0 also uses the old style.
Thank you for the tips
Thanks you... that's definitely an eye opener
Mr Doug, I wish you to know I am very appreciative of your efforts to make our community better. Bless Up❣️
Have a safe & fun Holiday.
Thank you! Happy Holidays to you too. We love what we do and just want to learn so you all can spend less time guessing and more time having fun and setting records!
Tech tips Tuesday is one of my favorite days! Thanks Doug
You made some great points. Makes total sense. I appreciate these vids. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this info
Great information to share to those in the learning curve. Thank you keep up the great updates. 👍
Knowing is half the battle... nice tip. Thank you Douglas
It honestly is. And if you are to trust the data to make decisions, you need correct data
Great info, thanks.
Love the tech tips!
Been missing the coyote content so the last 3 videos have been awesome 😎
Thanks.
I like seeing these faster iat sensors you’re right, the 1980 gm sensor is a bit slow, any idea if you will make a faster coolant temp sensor
They’re on the docket for RIFE! Should be available quite soon
@@MotionRaceworksOfficial i figured you would be on top of it, they both seem to have the same response (like 3 seconds per degree) substantial when people have 3-5 second 8th cars.
How do I calibrate this sensor on my terminator x??
This is awesome!
Great tip. Thanks Doug. 👍😈✌🏻
Well I'm sold on that! Looks like I'll be ordering some new sensors
I'm going to have to get a couple of these sensors
Just placed my order. Thanks for the video breakdown, definitely sold me on it for the responsiveness. Going into my turbo OBS 460 Ford F250 with an MS3X ECU.
Curious, how long did the sensor work for? Still working? Daily driver?
@@umakemerandy3669 I had one issue with the first one acting a little erratic after a couple months but they sent me a new one for free once I told them. I've been running that one for well over a year on a daily driver and it's still good to go.
@@johnvirgilsgarage alrighty, yeah they seem like a good company that would replace pretty easy. Sounds good!
Hey Doug, I’m running Fast XFI 2.0 with old style GM sensor, will the lo temp Rife sensor work with my setup,
What is best recommended spot to place a act or iat sensor? Upper intake? Lower intake if applicable or on the pipe running to the throttle body?
Great tip Doug. Thanks. Maybe 2 bungs and measure both sensors on same run too?
Hey Doug I see the data for some aftermarket computers but what about using this sensor with a GM MEFI computer? We build supercharged big block marine engines and are constantly melting the standard GM IAT. Any info is greatly appreciated and thank you and your team for another great tech tip!
Where did you mount the IAT on El Toro? 3/8" NPT correct?
I know they start around 74deg as you stated but is it calibrated? Could possibly the ohms ready is slightly different and not accurate? I would love a test in more controlled setting and see if it’s the same calibration. I only say this is because I had some issues with my ssi sensors and it was the offset calibration and was a pain but worked it out.
Thanks love the channel
You might also want to compare some of those GM MAP sensors with say a Kavlico to see differences ;-)
Awesome I need one of those 🤣 thx
Where did you mount your sensor
I just purchased a haltech elite 1500 and it came with a GM style AIT....
Would the RIFE AIT work better then the one included?
Calibration vs the GM sensor?
Not all ECUs allow for custom sensors but if there is an offset I just adjust accordingly in the compensation tables?
All of the data is in the product listing on our website for setting up calibration data. We actually had rife separate it out and write instructions for some of the more popular efi systems
I am about to buy your sensor from your website, does holley high rap manifold has a place where I can install it?
What about using an Egt type sensor? They work in the exhaust they should work in the inlet air stream too?
No and get sensor is different. IAT sensors are open element type k thermocouples that are very small elements for quick response get sensors have a protective sheath to protect the element from the much higher excursion temps.
Did I miss the part where you mentioned whether these work well with methanol injection over time?
Temp sensors are pretty slow relatively speaking. I would saw
In your log where ever the ramp
Yo for the temp starts is probably more in line with where your boost ramp started to come in. Even if the temp sensor is a little bit behind as far as time. Temp should rise generally with the increase in pressure. Sweet product. There are some pretty gnarly temp sensors out there. Some are silly prices. But they have a place and I am glad they’re a choice. Anyways. America 1
At 4 times the cost I would hope it would be faster. But for 99percent of applications the GM sensor will be 100percent fine.
4x the cost? It's not even double the price
@@Dlawler ones $20 the other is $79... that's 4 times the cost...
@@garyhowe88 is it though? One that's not just some off brand replacement on their site is $45, so $79 isn't even double that
@@Dlawler I think $20 is about right
www.dedicatedmotorsports.com/product-p/gmiat.htm
@@kyleallen3857 yeah as I said for a not just some off brand one, just going of the fact it doesn't list it as an ome part, or list the actual brand of the sensor its quite likely a Chinese sensor and be even worse than the one in the video
Does this sensor work with Holley terminator X and is it the same plug?
Would this sensor work in an application where the ecu is expecting GM IAT output voltages? Like a stock ecu where you can’t calibrate the sensor?
The setting data is different between the two sensors. On a stock GM ECU you can adjust the calibration.
Is there anybody that still does coil pack comparisons? Other than the older videos of LM7 and LS1 packs.. my stock LS6 still has stock coils with no heat sinks and my truck has LM7s and about to just swap them out but they’ve got some mileage on them. Why buy new(er) if I don’t have to. Theory was the stock LS1/6 packs would miss faster than the PCM can pick up on, and there for having a bad time when you’re racing at 7000rpm+.
Hey Doug, was looking at the RIFE 3/4 remote sensor blocks. Such a sleek/clean look. However I'm having a hard time finding information online about people running these. I know they are relatively new. What has been your experience with running these blocks so far, reliability wise. Can you comment on how they are holding up over time.
Thanks!
We have had them on a few of our cars this year including my Nova which has several thousand street miles and prob a hundred passes! They’ve been flawless and I really love the plumbing and wiring on them vs other remote ways of mounting sensors
@@MotionRaceworksOfficial Great news, did not know you had them in your Nova. That is what I wanted to hear. If they survived what you have put that Nova thru that is certainly enough for me. Thanks!!
hey doug do you have to change anything in the holley when putting this sensor in or is just plug and play
Yes you do, we actually had rife make a Holley setup document that’s in the listing of the product. Wanted to make it easy for folks to use and setup! Hope that helps!
@@MotionRaceworksOfficial cool thanks doug
How are you measuring accuracy though...certainly response time isn't your only metric. There are far more complicated dynamics at play when it comes to determining actual charge temperature. Unless you calibrated for the new first order lag dynamics of the IAT/ECT combination with the downstream thermal mass of the system, you probably found your mixture going lean with the new sensor.
I don't think its response time they are seeing. If you notice the length of the Rife sensor is much longer so it is reading closer to the center of flow where air moves quicker and thays why he is seeing a different temp. Ideally you want you open element in the center of flow because it moves fastest in the center. Guarentee that if he had another sensor that was dead center of flow it would read even higher. Thays why in the temp sensor industry it is important to spec sensors to center of flow for most accurate measurements.
@@turbochevelle5641 the center of flow isolates the measurement from thermal mass that can affect it. It's not a temperature gradient along the radius of the tube the air flows through...it's just the heatsink that the sensor is mounted in. That affects the time constant of the system. I designed software for GM....the code is littered with first order lag filters to compensate for situations like this.
So we can swap the sensors right out and software will read it the same ?
No sir there is a scaling chart on our website to give you that data
@@MotionRaceworksOfficial thank you
It won't let me click the bell so I can get notifications...
$45?! Hell mine was like $15 from my local GM dealer lol. Damn Ecu/injectors/intake broke me. Gotta save money somewhere lol
Accurate readings tho.
Very important sensor if you have boost. The faster it reads and sends info to computer the longer and healthier the engine will run.
Actually its not that the sensor is slow. These sensors are exposed element type k thermocouples. If you look at the sensors the exposed element of the gm sensor is much shorter and by the time it is screwed into the bung it's barely into the charge pipe, where the Rife sensor was much longer so that's where the difference is coming from. Air moves quickest through the center of the charge pipe so the closer to the center the reading is the more accurate reading of excursion temps you will see. So basically what you are seeing is the difference between the depths the temp elements are reading and the closer to center you get the higher reading you will see.
I'm not disagreeing that it wouldn't be good for the "sensor TIP to be up inside the bung" but have you done back to back testing (with data) showing the GM works "as fast as the RIFE"? Or are you _just saying_ RIFE's web site is showing incorrect/false info? ("ultra-fast response thermistors")...
Let's see the GM and RIFE sensors side-by-side in a pot of hot water with some actual ohm readings.
There's the first attempt at actual data-driven science I've seen on this post yet. I shared this video around with a few other ME and CS engineer friends of mine and they just kick back and laugh. Just a veiled attempt to push more products to people who don't know any better.
Faster is moar better....until you're chasing low speed fueling issues forever because your IAT is dragging charge temp around to where it actually isn't. Accurate data is great if you know wtf you're actually doing.
@@anasasisxenophontis A test like this would be far easier and more accurate on the bench.
Not the way to do it. They are type k exposed element thermocouples. The way flow is properly measured is directly in the center of flow because that's where velocity is fastest and heat will be more concentrated. The gm sensor is much shorter that's why its reading is different and if they had a sensor dead center of flow it would read higher than the Rife. These guys have no idea obviously that there is no way to read real time temp and understanding excursion temps is a must along with placement of the element in the flow path. Sounds good what they are saying but they are missing the engineering principal behind why and where to take measurement for most accurate readings.
Is Victor ever not on the phone ? lol
No sir, dude is day trading race sponsorships, gtr and Supra parts lol!
Many Ford's of all ilk have the same sensors. Get real factory Motorcraft parts at the junkyards for pennies.
Using glossy screen laptop is no good for tuning.
So the educational information is great but you're babbling on about it you could cut your video down save us time from watching all that jibber jabber get to the point
You just gotta put up with it if you’re gonna learn. Sorry ;)
@@MotionRaceworksOfficial I say you do a very good job.
@@BB-rn6so Correct. If you can't spend 11 minutes digesting new and important information, this may be the reason some racers are mid-pack instead of running at the top.