I think Brando has raised the bar for hard magic systems yet again with Fabrials. I can't think of a single magic system as hard, yet just as complex, as them. My problem with the book, is that parts 3 and 4 mostly feel like science class. The big issue then, and why I feel like this book won't age very well, is that even if you were fascinated by Navani breaking down Fabrials for 500 pages, once you know how it works, the overexplaining becomes less interesting the 2nd time you reread, and the 3rd, and 4th times. There are hundreds of pages dedicated to explaining, that won't hold up on future rereads. Also, the weirdest part about this book for me, was that Dalinar was finally going to explore a part of Roshar that has been alluded to for like 3 books now, and hardly anything happens until part 5. The only time we see what Dalinar and Jasnah are up to before the ending, is part 3. And there's only like 5 chapters of them in part 3. Still, this book is better than most people's best works.
navani is literally nicola tesla. fabrials are literally handheld electronic devices. it was very jarring to be taken out of a medieval fantasy story to hear her discussing physics of light, wave theories, and reversing magnetic polarities in a world that a single book ago, they all talked about fabrials being "magical".
@@OnixMint he already said which book will do which character. Book 5 will be skybreakers and Szeth is a skybreaker. First book was windrunners (Kaladin) Second book was lightweavers (Shallan) Third book bondsmiths (Dalinar) Fourth book willshapers (Venli) See what he's doing.
See, I've seen a lot of people complain about Kaladin's storyline in this book, specifically about how it focuses too much on his depression, and how it feels like he is deal with the same things again and again, and didn't he already learn this stuff? Why can't he just move on? Now, I don't presume to speak for all people with chronic depression, but Kaladin's struggle with depression in this book felt like how I experience depression. Kaladin was killing himself by throwing himself into the war effort, but he was also using it as a crutch to keep from having to deal with his depression head-on. Once that was taken away from him, he was forced to confront his depression, and it threw him into a downward spiral. But it was only by working through the feelings and issues he had building up inside of him that he could heal. Of course, he also had to contend with both a natural barrier (Lirin) and a supernatural barrier (Odium) to overcoming those issues, which only made the process more difficult. And so he fought his most difficult battle yet inside his own mind. I think it is telling how his struggle with depression is the difficult battle for him, not the physical battles he has to fight. I loved this book. I recognize that it has some pacing issues that make it technically weaker than previous books in the series, but because of Kaladin's and Navani's storylines, this might be my favorite SA book so far.
For someone with chronic depression, I could definitely see it as a great book. For the rest of us, I was ready for him just to retire and leave the fight to everyone else.
I'm a veteran who struggled with depression and even got told to start the divorce paperwork over the phone from my high school sweetheart while on deployment. I can say from experience that kaladin is a little b itch who needs to put his big boy pants on. He went from the most relatable character for me, to the one I would skip when his chapters came up.
I love Adolin, i hear you, but I think why I love Adolin is that even though Shallan, Kaladin and other radiants have all these powers they still need Adolin who is just a normal guy to rely on. But yeah more Adolin in book 5 would be awesome, but not as a radiant.
Maya’s growth is only made possible through adolin’s actions and the care he gives her. Essentially maya’s growth is actually a reflection of Adolin and not Maya. Adolin has had to deal with suddenly being less useful now that there are so many radiants, and has had to fall back on his values as a person - now through him living by those values (i.e. showing love and respect to Maya, risking himself to convince the honorspren) he now has the potential to become radiant himself now that maya is awakening. It’s a pretty awesome arc if you ask me with big potential in the coming books
Nah. I like Adolin specifically because he's a platform for other characters' growth. Among all these wrecks of people, it's so refreshing to see a simple guy who just wants to do good and help his friends, and succeeds at that. There's value in having an almost-purely support character in a story, who helps others while not being dragged down by his own problems.
I think Brando thought the same thing and the mental arcs of those characters have a sort of wrap up in the book, i think the next book will not be define by mental health and being sketchy. This 4th volume is just a prologue, the real slaughter will be in the next volume. Good video.
About the mental illness thing - the "whole character is just his mental illness" thing is actually a thing that sometimes does happen in real life. This is, off course an oversimplification, but at the crisis points it does sometimes feel like there is nothing else going on in that persons life. Doesn't mean that the person is defined only by the mental illness, but it's such an overwhelming part of life that it basically pushes out everything else. I actually quite loved what Sanderson did there. And because I were already super interested in Parshendi, this might just be my favourite Stormlight book so far!
You are correct, to an extent. Someone who is as depressed as Kalidan or as crazy as Shallan are defined in real life too to their mental illness. It's all encompassing and pushes others away, like the book did to me with the characters. It's a fantasy book, not an abnormal psych class. I'm done with all the mental illness in all the characters. PTSD, depression, multiple personality, Autism, TBI, ADHD, addiction, and NPD. How much mental health do you need in one book and to have it at such a forefront?
@@kalel33 well, guess what. That fantasy book reflects the real life people extremely well and that's how people are, especially in extreme circumstances. The book isn't about mental health, it's about how real people deal with life.
@@MioMyDog Wasn't about mental health? Let's go through them: Anxiety, depression, ADHD, TBI, PTSD, NPD, Autism, drug addiction, and multiple personality disorder. Those were all focused on extensively in this book. Brandon even admitted that he had help from a Psychologist to write the book because of how much mental health championing he was going to do.
Also, mental health isn't near as prevalent in real life as it was portrayed in this book.....nowhere close. He does do a good job of portraying mental health, like severely depressed individuals pushing away others and sabotaging themselves but I was also fed up with Kaladin to the point that I was hoping he would remain a healer and let others take of the mantle for the remainder of the fight. I was done with him, like many are with people with severe depression. Also, Autism wasn't well written for how they are in real life. He wrote it so the character would be more enjoyable.
I have to agree, this is my least favourite Stormlight book. I was really surprised by the number of people claiming it was their favourite after release. I found much of it a chore to read, eg the Venli chapters bored me to tears. It does have some really great parts, and much of it is incredibly important to the wider cosmere, but overall it just missed the mark for me as the pacing was way off. Was it a new editor? It seemed like it to me as it felt like it could have been someone that wasn't as comfortable challenging Brandon to tighten sections up, the way it had been done in previous books. Overall it was good, and the repercussions of things that happened could be terrifying, but it just wasn't as enjoyable a read as the others for me. It's nice to know it wasn't just me that felt that way.
👏🏻 Great video! You were thoughtful, concise, and absolutely spot-on. ROW was still an enjoyable read, but the variable writing (overwritten sections mixed with underwritten sections) was the main problem I had with the book. And there were so many things that made me feel like the main characters either seriously regressed (in a way that felt inauthentic/not fully developed) or they just had insurmountable character impasses that they then spontaneously overcame at the eleventh hour. I felt cheated out of a convincing arc in the character development either way. Still; you raise good points about Navani Kholin. She wasn’t as well handled/realized as some of the focus characters in previous Stormlight books, but she was the best part of ROW.
Hi Jay, almighty RUclips algorithm has brought your channel to my attention due to my obsession with Kingkiller Chronicle... And I'm very grateful for that! Your videos are the best and I don't understand why are your subscribers about 5 times less than what you deserve. The only explanation I see is that most of the big booktubers connect their names with the name of the channel. Kvothe would agree that names are powerful... You might consider that. In any case please keep up your awesome work ;-)
This is pretty much how I felt about the book. My review was vaguely positive and I think we had similar points. One of the things that's really stuck with me since I've read it, and you mentioned here, is that how much of the book takes place in one spot. Roshar feels largely unexplored and I know we have 10 books but at 4 books in i thought we'd have a bit more explored location wise. Also I agree on the editing, the book felt a little rough around the edges at times. Wonderful review, your video editing is seriously bonkers.
Oh man. RoW is one of my faves so far. The scenes with familiar characters had alot of depth added to their arcs, without dragging down the story. We KNEW that Kal and his father were going to need to work through things, and Sanderson doesn't waste our time rehashing everything we've already seen. His depression affects that relationship. It ISN'T magically instantaiously solved by a single heroic moment. As someone who is not nureotypical this means so much to me. Its not a minor thing that is magically overcome, like so many fantasy stories. They use people like me as props or phases for their characters to pass through, and then write us out of the story, the entire world. I've NEVER scene representation so good, and so accurate before. I love the way Shalans and Adolin's arcs have some paralells, but come from different places. She deals with the consequence of her actions, but everything doesn't get magically solved at once. These things heal slowly, and don't just get wished away, and they are one of the biggest reasons I connect with these characters.
I totally agree. The way the Stormlight Archive deals with mental illness and human psychology is amazing. That moment when Kaladin experienced the healing of his trauma put this book right up there for me!
I can see how you would absolutely love this book, from your own personal experiences but for the regular person, the mental health was so overarching with so many characters that the story and character development took a backseat to championing mental health.
I think one Problem with the flashbacks are, that the further along we are with the main timeline the less we care about the past/know already so much that it's not as exciting as it was in the beginning. With book 1 we got to know past kaladin at the same pace as present kaladin plus we learn a lot about the world. With shallan we were teased from the beginning that she has a secret that even she didn't really know, we wanted to uncover it. Same with dalinar we knew there was something, but we didn't know what is was also we (again) learned a lot about the past. But with venli... we already kinda knew what happened/could pirce it together really fast with all the information we had, it also wasn't really surprising, and from eshonais pov we already knew how the listeners lived. We basically knew past venli and knew nearly nothing about present venli.
I don’t get how you could say we don’t get a lot of Kaladin and Shallan. Dalinar I can very much understand, but the other two have MAJOR character arcs in this book.
Yeah, here's the breakdown of how much of the book was from each of the main characters' points of view. 1. Kaladin: 21.7% 2. Navani: 18.5% 3. Venli: 13.7% 4. Shallan: 13.2% 5. Adolin: 8.4% 6. Dalinar: 7.3%
I think I get where he is coming from, for me it was more a case of we didn't get anything new from Kaladin and Shallan, instead it was more of the same things we have already gone through with them, just in slightly different settings.
@@thewhiskybowman I can understand that's what he's trying to say, but I just don't agree even slightly. What we see from them are the same problems, yes, but now they've gone from just being personal journeys to affecting their relationships with other people. Kaladin can't get over his depression to the degree where everybody pities him for it and Dalinar straight-up retires him. Shallan's multiple personalities are more-or-less in tune with each other after oathbringer, but it's a massive strain on her and it's straining her marriage and her trust in other people. Plus we learn even more about the roots of her issues and got tons of information that ties her character together. This is basically the climax of their story. So yeah, it's the same set of problems, but with vastly deeper dimensions.
The sad truth about mental illness is the fact that it ends up defining people in real life. I think characters continously struggling with these issues is closer to being realistic.
I think the big thing is people without severe issues think it isn't that defining. The people who know me would never think my depression defines me. They know I make dark jokes and sometimes get really reclusive. But if could see me internally they would see how it moves the tides of my mind and changes the winds of my heart. It defines me in a huge way.
I guess it is more enticing to read about if you yourself are going through similar emotions. I can see how it would be boring to someone who doesn't battle with such things. But it is extremely realistic in regards to what the characters have gone through and how long it is taking them to get over it. I lost my wife in mid 2020 and I will forever battle demons over it. So I really respect his commitment to the battle within his characters and how they are slowly but surely healing.
I love this review. I agree with a lot of this. I on part three of the books and I so lost about all the cosmere reveal. I read mistborn era one that the only other sanderson work I read. Part three is very much a drag so far I hope part four will be better pace.
This was my least favourite Stormlight book as well. In addition to the things you mentioned, which I agree with, there were two major things: the book is mostly setting up things for Book 5 and the end of Part 1. I imagine it'll be a better read once we can appreciate it for the things it allows in Book 5, but for now it's just a lot of set up without enough pay off. Then there's also the fact that as someone with depression, Kaladin's chapters this episode made me start to lapse into a small depressive episode. I imagine if I didn't have depression the book wouldn't have felt as difficult and painful to get through as it did.
No, it Kalidan's depression was horrible for me and I don't have issues with depression. I was done with him and his issues. I was hoping he would just retire and be written off, with someone else taking up the mantle.
do you guys even Raboniel and Navani??? The Shadesmar stuff? this book was amazing. It had a TON of payoff, more than i imagined. did we read the same book ??
Great video Jay! How different opinions can be. I loved this book and found it way better than book 3. I loved every plotline except the flashbacks and didn’t find part 3 sloggy (part 4 of oathbringer was way slower imo). Navanis plotline I found so interesting because her antagonist was so good. Kaladins character growth was awesome and in THAT shallan chapter I had tears (my first tears I had ever from media). I never enjoyed Dalinar as much as the others, so I didn’t mind him being not as prevalent. As a conclusion, I loved that book and found it better than Oathbringer but it’s still just my third fav.
Aw Kaladin officially became my most favorite character in all fiction after this book. WOR is my number one favorite Stormlight book, with ROW as a close second. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it as much as you wanted to. I think my only serious issue with the book was what happened to Moash at the end 😬
I just finished the book this morning and think you are spot on - pacing, language, character all were just not as good as the previous ones. I get what Sanderson is going for with the "everyone is broken in a different way" theme, but I am not finding it enjoyable to read. A lot of this book felt like work to read to me, whereas the other books were page turners and I just wanted more. There were amazing moments that made me excited or teary eyed - it wasn't a BAD book, but I re-read the previous books right before reading this one and it was, sadly, a let down.
Cracks in the narrative started oin book 3 and grew here. I really hope Brando takes his time on the next on and works on his other novels and stories while it stews
I disagree with you and this isn't me praising Sanderson blindly at all...frankly, I found OB tedious to read. Parts 3 and 4 should've been cut...Part 2 could've also used a bit of a trimming and the whole Sanderlanche felt like a lame attempt at beating the perfect WOR Sanderlanche.... Anyway, onto the characters, this book was incredibly character focused, close to the level of TWOK in my opinion. I felt like it was necessary that Sanderson FINALLY dealt with the characters one final time because I KNOW Book 5 will be all plot and barely characters because most of them have reached their peak by now. From the way Sanderson wrote OB, he clearly opened up new arcs for both Shallan and Kaladin from the end of Part 3...with Shallan being forced to start dealing with her lies after Wit's talk and Kaladin going into battle shock for the first time. Part 4 of OB was just them trying to figure out Shadesmar so they didn't really get much time to deal with their issues and Part 5 was, you know, Part 5 isn't enough...flash forward to one year and they've only got worse in their specific misbeliefs because if their consistent putting off of facing their problems. Kaladin freezes a lot more often and Shallan has become so engrained in her own lies that... she's just horrible. I don't know if this is what Sanderson was going for, but the inclusion of Lirin was a great touch for Kaladin's arc in this book. The differences in their philosophies was really interesting to explore, because I don't see there is any right or wrong side to it. Kaladin FINALLY accepting he can't save everyone, that what happened to Elhokar wasn't his fault... throughout the previous books, he's never dealt with accepting the fact that he can't save everyone. Dalinar was all Book 3, so him being mostly absent in Book 4 was bound to happen, considering that Sanderson has big plans for him in Book 5. I did feel a kind of Deux ex machina when he came just at the right time to save Kaladin, but that's fine (let's face it...no one is ready for Kaladin to die, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation, also Sanderson isn't exactly known for killing characters, he's known for putting them in deadly situations and finding interesting ways to get them out) I really enjoyed how Sanderson delved into what war makes people do...from Kal's battle shock to learning all about the tragic history of the Listeners(P.S. Venli, Eshonai , Rlain and Raboniel are really underrated as characters). I can't say much for Leshwi because I didn't get to explore her as much as the other four in this book. The Listeners deserved better, that's all I'll say(and I have more questions on how Sanderson will handle this theme in a way that isn't...problematic considering the real life allusions to colonialism and slavery). This book had hands down, the best villains. I don't think any Sanderson villain tops Raboniel and Moash. I saw Lezian as an analogy to Kaladin's depression coming to him again and again, and it was so clever. Dabbid was...chef's kiss I must say,however, this book marked a remarkable shift in tone for the series. This book was far darker than the others...there was no Bridge Four banter, Shadesmar was full of mystery and mistrust on Shallan's part, and Wit was barely witty in this book. Also, I feel like there should've been a trigger warning for this book...certain parts get really triggering and heavy. I resonate with Kal a lot but man, reading his parts got really hard at times because of how close it hit home. And there was no breathing space because this book is filled with melancholia from beginning to end. I had no issues with the pacing, the flashbacks were really few and so short as well. I get how it can feel redundant after the WOR and OB interludes, but I'm a fan of the Listeners...I find them so fascinating A nitpick of mine is the Mink...why did we go through all that in Part One? I hope he's worth it in Book 5 because I feel like there's a lot more beneath the surface. Anyway, I really liked the book for its intimacy with both the characters and the setting and the Sanderlanche was my fave. I was so glad he didn't make it bigger than OB. The OB one dragged! Overall, this is my fave Stormlight book and I do feel it will be more appreciated during rereads. But hey these are just my two cents. Sorry for making it an essay.
I completely agree. Basically they go from best to least favorite in order they came out. My favorite are Way of kings and Words. I could go on forever about it but RoW spent too much time on things I don’t really care about. I felt like not that much happened either. The story managed to feel small and confined and that’s unusual for a Sanderson book. Sanderson is brilliant though, so I do give him Leeway.
First, I love your channel and content! You seem a very cool guy as well. I have Rythm of War in my shelf waiting for me to read it, but Im currently finishing Oathbringer. Its good but Words of Radiance is my favourite so far (As Shallan is my favourite character followed by Dalinar). Maybe the end of Oathbringer surprises me... we will see.
You hit the nail of the head for me in regards to the mental health being what they were defined by. Shallan was my favorite character, even have a print framed in my living room, but I absolutely hated her story in this one. She lost who she was in order for Brandon to do a PSA on mental illness. The same can be said for most of the characters in this book. He wanted to do a book on mental illness and he accomplished that, at the loss of who the characters were previously. This was, by far, my least favorite Brandon Sanderson book. It took me quite a bit to get through it and for the first time, I'm not excited about the next one.
I so agree with you, this was not my favorite Stormlight book. I thought he overwrote several parts and just dropped other parts. All the characters have to deal with a new world with a new world war, shock and awe was all over the place. I took this book for a "middle book" getting stuck in certain plots and some characters getting lost. It is a good book, but of all the Stormlights this is my least favorite. Thanks Jay!
I just finished this book last night.. I kept looking at the books like nah.. but I had 1 credit on audiable and since Doors of Stone is still not done I started The Stormlight Archives. I enjoyed it and the way he is dealing with Kal, Shalon, Dabbid.. I also like the connections I cough to Mistborn. My problem is I now need a new saga to start.. Im super picky thou.. I have all the WoT, KKC, SLA, Mistborn and SoT. I like my books over 20hrs and have several books to go threw. Any ideas on what to start next in the same epic fantasy style if possible?
This book was a bit tedious for me and the payout wasn't worth it in the end 🙃 I agree that the characters started to become caricatures. I wish there were a few more surprises. Everything felt pretty predictable, but also for me I thinI it took so long to get to the twists that they lost their inital excitement once they finally were fulfilled. I feel like by the end I lost all my emotional investment.
I'm still not sure whether Oathbringer or ROW is my least favourite. I think the fourth one has a structural problem, the third part felt too long and could have been mixed with other parts, and the book should've been 200 pages or sho shorter. But I also really liked all the smal details, how explicit information regarding the Cosmere has become, the explicit mentions to characters from other books and how events from previous books are starting to take shape. I think that ROW is great if you like spending time in this world, learn more about little aspects and if you like slower fantasy but if not it can be disappointing. I wonder though what will happen in the next book, since it's the last one from the first arch it'll probably be epic
This was a great video mate. I hope I like RoW as its a big book to be reading if I don't. And I think Sando said book 5 was going to be Szeth, but dont quote me on that.
Great video! This series is just getting better and bette, but I really want the settings to be branched out more. The shattered planes were great and urithiru was interesting, but I would have loved to see more places. Specially Rock’s home land the horneater peaks.
I knew that each Stormlight book will have a different character view and arc because of you, and that helped me read the books not expecting to read all about the main cast all the time. So it came as a surprise to me that you wanted more of the main cast from this book. Anyways, excellent review as always! I'm glad I read RoW before watching this, as your views and the comments might have affected my interest going into the book.
Glad that you were brave enough to discuss what you didn't enjoy and your critique was fair. I don't feel the same way about most of it, but that's okay. Some of the mental health themes I think repeat on purpose because, unlike some big bad you fight externally, these elements remain with you and need to be managed. That is the one thing that made both Kaladin and Shalan's stories amazing for me. On some level, one may feel like it hits similar beats, but I get why it would feel that way if you had that condition.
RoW spoilers My biggest issue with RoW is the lack of depth we got from the Shadesmar plot. To me that was the most interesting part and it was so minimal. Every interesting thing that happened there happened way too quickly I felt like we needed more fleshing out. It read like a copy paste of an outline for those sections than a fully developed story. I could be picky because the Maia and Adolin plot development and Shallan's other spren (basically the truth behind the previous radiants and how dead spren work) was so insanely intriguing to me... but I don't think I am being /overly/ picky. Idk...
Rhythm of War, from what I feel is a setup for book five, Sanderson’s tried to highlight the silence before the storm. I am about eighty ages from the end of NOTW, last few chapters were like Pat pressed the pedal and plot like raced forward with Chandrians and everything, but then came the Dracuss and it feels like a bit meandering again. I am sometimes annoyed by it, but I am definitely enjoying it. Thanks Jay for making me pick up this book.
I have loved the Stormlight Archive, but I will agree that Rhythm of War was my least favorite. I actually fell asleep several times while reading. That’s never a good sign. Sometimes Sanderson rambles and doesn’t say anything that adds to the storyline.
All good. To be honest Oathbringer was my least favorite, as I didn't feel it moved the plotline or characters as far downrange as the first two books did. Even Dalinar's arc wasn't particularly mind blowing or transformative. I know that is apostasy around these parts, so my point is only that we all have our likes and dislikes. Though I agree with you that Eshoni's flashbacks seemed the most redundant in the series. And I really am dissapointed that Adolin didn't get more to do than be Shallan's sidekick.
My favorite SA book is Oathbringer. Rhythm of War was a little disappointing for me? I wanted to spend more time exploring Shadesmar and was pretty disappointed at how much I had to read about Kaladin and co. sneaking around in Urithiru. There were still a lot of amazing moments and the big one at the end had me bawling lol. But it was the first SA book where I really felt the pacing issues.
I had many of the same thoughts. I wonder sometimes if Sando is trying to be cool w/ the mental health and cringe-type dialogue. I feel like Shallan's development as a strong independent character took a huge nose dive with this book. I didn't enjoy the Kaladin and Shallan arcs but like usual the good vastly outweighed the bad and it is my least fav of the series.
I loved Shallan and her independent attitude. I even have a print framed on my living room wall of her. I lost almost all my positive view of her from this one book.
When I saw that generally this instalment wasn't receiving as much positivity as some of the other books I was quite shocked! I actually really enjoyed it! I found Kaladin's arc really relatable and I connected to it a lot and was also just obsessed with Raboniel as a villain for this story! Admittedly when reading most of the Venli perspectives/ flash backs I wasn't as fond - much prefer Eshonai as a character. However, I would personally put this as my second favourite after Words of Radiance. Though my least favourite is Oathbringer which seems to be most other peoples favourite, so maybe I have weird taste haha!
This book reminds me of late 80s early 90s Stephen King where he got super self indulgent and no longer had the editorial oversight that helped elevate his stories from being just pretty good to being transformed into something great.
Fully on board with your analysis. I still think it was a great read but it did not needed to be this long. I have have feeling Brandon just wanted to turn up the page count so the book wouldn't be shorter than the previous installments. Especially the part where he explained in great detail how the flying platforms work was a big slog. First time I skipped stuff in Stormlight and honestly it did not make a difference whatsoever.
Completely agree... The mental illness is taking over the characters too much and making them feel one-dimensional. I get that there is even an in-world explanation why most of the main characters have mental disorders but I wish we'd move on already. Sando said that for Kaladin this book will be a breaking point and moving forward he'll be on an upward trajectory in his personal development.
Oh no. I'm currently approaching the end of part 3 of RoW and was hoping that we would finally get to see a few settings beside Urithiru in part 4, but that does not sound promising at all.
I personally loved this book. Its up there with the rest of the Stormlight Archive as one of my all time favorites. Granted, I'm not a very critical reader lol. I can't even begin to rank them in my mind until I reread them.
Your belief that the characters would be ok was not one I shared and so this book was SUPER tense throughout most of this book. Also I agree with most of the sad boi stuff, and yet. I loved his arc in this book again. I would say that in this one he was struggling against odds more than he’s struggling against himself which is his historic stance.
I have to agree. I didn't like mopey Kaladin and Veil being a split personality of Shallan's spawned from childhood doesn't make sense with what happened in the second book. And what exactly is the deal with Shadesmar? Humans had forgotten all about sentient spren and only Jasnah had vague knowledge of the place. So how come spren have markets that trade clothes? Food? Are familiar with medicine and how to purify water? And the only access to Shadesmar for humans who weren't Knights was in the Horneater mountains.
The flashbacks were completely pointless. It’s the first book where we learn nothing new. They just show us all the things that we already knew happened offscreen. It was interesting but pointless.
Ad I remember an incredible amount was revealed. Not always the what but the how from things revealed earlier sure, but there was plenty new or fleshed out from something that was totally vague earlier on. Many series have a huge fall-off in learning about the world building after a few books and then focus in on plot developments and I don’t think SA deserves a poor rating on that front whatsoever. The main inefficiency lay in the backstory content which Sanderson has admitted. I think there were a few essential things he still needed to convey but still wanted to do a whole arc just like the other books and couldn’t get away with a few random essential flashback scenes.
This qas either my favorite or second favorite book in stormlight. I had such a hard time with the first two, and the shadesmar stuff in Oathbringer was super hard, but this one was just way way easier. So many great reveals, Raboniel is amazing, Navani is incredible. So much good stuff.
Your review echoes my thoughts on this book sooo closely. I was very surprised to see people giving this book 5 stars and gushing over it online when, compared to the other books, it's by far the weakest. It has all kinds of pacing issues and I really don't care about Navani that much. I was so annoyed by some of the creative decisions around the main cast, namely reigning them back in and making them fade into the background when they should be the ones driving the plot forward.
Dalinar is one of my favorite characters. That being said, this series is huge and of course he’s going to have to give characters outside of the main cast the time to develop.
Dalinar won my heart when he went out to piss, had a boulder almost smash into him, seen the Storm Father walking, and gave him the middle finger.....my man!
Same, I had to really push myself to get through it. My problem before was putting the books down. I literally forced myself to finish just to get the salient points of the story.
There wasn't anything that made it a bad book but it felt a little more of a slog, and some things seem to have regressed with some characters, almost like Sanderson needed to slow down the growth of his characters to fit the arc rather than allowing them to grow organically.
My thoughts during every Navani/ Raboniel chapter: “I’m telling you, that experiment could be the star of a show called Experiments I Don’t Care About.”
My friend finds oathbringer to be the best and I think that Rhythm is. Our biggest point of disagreement: pacing. More happens in oathbringer than Rhythmn but the pacing is all over the place. The shadesmar and bridge 4 sections are plain at best and boring at worst. But rhythm, while being paced better, plays it almost too safe with its structure. It's a straight shot through to the end without any interesting detours.
I still retain that there is not a single stormlight book that is less than great. But yeah, rhythm of war was my least favourite. Still enjoyed the hell out of it.
Man this video says exactly what I've been thinking, thanks for the awesome videos.(spoilers) By the way what's your opinion on jasnas's trick she did on a specific high prince in a specific tent? It feels extremely hypocritical to me especially since she talked about democracy to Dalinar a moment before her move. She used a law to her advantage and then immediately got rid of it. She claims democracy is important and then immediately dethrones humiliates and inflicts her opposition? That was such a character assassination it took her character from one of my favorites to the worst. Also prediction Hoid is dying in the next book sadly!
This! ^^ Finally somebody dares to criticize Jasnah's behaviour re Ruthar. It WAS completely ooc (until then). There were more events that put me off: the death of Raboniel's daughter being called "a mercy" (because she was disabled) put a total stop to my reading for several days. The characters always acting, but never really INTERacting anymore as well as the pacing, the balance between over- and underwritten and the completely unsatisfying flashbacks. WoK and WoR remain my favs.
I really loved this book however some of the flashbacks were kind of boring to the point that flashback chapters were my point of ''Ok flashback chapter guess I'll take a break and start here later'' and its sad because Dalinar and Shallan flashbacks were what you craved in Oathbringer and Words of Radiance but in this book they were not that interesting I think the final flashback chapter was beautiful and tear jerking but most of them were very normal for our ''Tragic Flashback Chapters'' also since Venli was already kind of developed since Oathbringer the flashbacks didn't serve to redeemed her or to show that she would change because since the beginning of the book she already was decided to help as a radiant, yes she wanted to escape with her group and be free of radiants and singers but still she mentioned she needed to talk with the radiants and learn so she was already a ''good person'' or at least she had surpassed her worst moments. Now I don't know why people hated the book and called it a ''guide for mental health'' yes there was a lot of from Shallan and Kaladin but if you are reading book 4 of the stormlight archive then by now you knew the payoff of both storylines would be big and satisfying and it was. Also the Navani and Raboniel scholar bond was very amazing and the discoveries made in those chapters were jaw dropping. It really is amazing how a storyteller can make something that was established and you thought it didn't need more explanation into a whole big subject like he did here with the different types of light and the rhythms and finally you know that part 5 in stormlight books is ''La creme de la creme'' and yes for me this is the best part 5 of all the stormlight books, the tension and the stakes made me so nervous that I read it in one seat.
I think this review has too much info to be considered "spoiler free"..... Agree with some parts, but disagree with you on characterization. A lot of characters, in particular, Kal have phenomenal growth. There are other arcs (keeping spoiler free) that are just mind blowing for the cosmere.
Hmmm well I don't think I spoil anything to do with the main plot really? While writing the review I compared it to some other spoiler free ones just to make sure I wasn't pushing it. I did really enjoy Kal's story in this one, he was probably my favorite POV this time besides Navani. I just sometimes feel like Sanderson is stunting his character growth by dragging out his mental health issues and internal conflict. Still love Kal though, and yeah I agree some of the Cosmere stuff is mind blowing in this one, it's definitely the best book in terms of Cosmere info and reveals
I started reading this right after finishing Oathbringer for the first time... I was almost bored to tears in the first few chapters... it seems like all the same crap, over and over again, plus sypical and predictable escalation issues... but... I'll push on through. It is just a slog at this point.
Honestly, the Stormlight book quality overall has gone down. I think to rank them, I’d say WoR, WoK, OB, and RoW. There are parts in each book that I love and the BOOKS themselves aren’t awesome reads but the world....dear sweet goodness me the world is the cocaine of literature. (Don’t do drugs!!) RoW part 1 was my favorite part of any Stormlight book (just friggin amazing) but overall the book was my least favorite.
Brandon has talked about how he sometimes feels forced to write a series and it becomes a slog. I think he's starting to get this way with Stormlight and he did the overarching mental health to give him something new, at the sacrifice of the story.
My ranking, 1, 4 or 2 would have to reread, and 3. Don't get me wrong. Loved a lot of 3 but if you got to rank it was my least favorite but I still loved it!
Re-read the series and now i think oathbringer/Rhythm of war are tied at number 1 for me. WoK and WoR feel like one MASSIVE book as does Warbreaker and RoW. Just great books all around.
This book is crazy hard for me to rate because while many of the scenes in this book are among my favorites in the series (with one being probably my absolute favorite) this book was just too damn long. The beginning twenty ish percent and the last twenty percent were amazing but that middle was really inconsistent
I just watched your review before my reread ahead of the 5th book and I totally agree with the flash backs and the parshendi. The pacing as well was not handled well. Great review
Which Stormlight Archive book is your favorite?
The Way of Kings. Rhythm of War is by far my least favorite novel in the series too, its even boring and far too long
Oathbringer
Words of Radiance
Favorite to least favorite is the same order as the books. WoK my favorite followed closely by words
Clearly WoR
I think Brando has raised the bar for hard magic systems yet again with Fabrials. I can't think of a single magic system as hard, yet just as complex, as them.
My problem with the book, is that parts 3 and 4 mostly feel like science class. The big issue then, and why I feel like this book won't age very well, is that even if you were fascinated by Navani breaking down Fabrials for 500 pages, once you know how it works, the overexplaining becomes less interesting the 2nd time you reread, and the 3rd, and 4th times. There are hundreds of pages dedicated to explaining, that won't hold up on future rereads.
Also, the weirdest part about this book for me, was that Dalinar was finally going to explore a part of Roshar that has been alluded to for like 3 books now, and hardly anything happens until part 5. The only time we see what Dalinar and Jasnah are up to before the ending, is part 3. And there's only like 5 chapters of them in part 3.
Still, this book is better than most people's best works.
navani is literally nicola tesla. fabrials are literally handheld electronic devices. it was very jarring to be taken out of a medieval fantasy story to hear her discussing physics of light, wave theories, and reversing magnetic polarities in a world that a single book ago, they all talked about fabrials being "magical".
This book may have its flaws, but the dog and the dragon is an absolute masterpiece.
lmao that dog is nothing like a dragon. He should go back to being a dog.
Hell yess!! Man its my fav part and always is stuck in my head whenever I see Hoid inna book scene
Redeemed the whole book for me.
Hoid and his spren where amazing
One of the main characters in the fifth book is Szeth. We get his backstory and everything.
Yeah and he and kaladin are going to shinovar. I really looking forward to see those 2 together😂
You say this like you already have it.... I'm Jealous.
😂😂
Where did you get these news from?
@@OnixMint He's talked about it multiple times, but here's one such instance:
wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11374
@@OnixMint he already said which book will do which character.
Book 5 will be skybreakers and Szeth is a skybreaker.
First book was windrunners (Kaladin)
Second book was lightweavers (Shallan)
Third book bondsmiths (Dalinar)
Fourth book willshapers (Venli)
See what he's doing.
See, I've seen a lot of people complain about Kaladin's storyline in this book, specifically about how it focuses too much on his depression, and how it feels like he is deal with the same things again and again, and didn't he already learn this stuff? Why can't he just move on?
Now, I don't presume to speak for all people with chronic depression, but Kaladin's struggle with depression in this book felt like how I experience depression. Kaladin was killing himself by throwing himself into the war effort, but he was also using it as a crutch to keep from having to deal with his depression head-on. Once that was taken away from him, he was forced to confront his depression, and it threw him into a downward spiral. But it was only by working through the feelings and issues he had building up inside of him that he could heal.
Of course, he also had to contend with both a natural barrier (Lirin) and a supernatural barrier (Odium) to overcoming those issues, which only made the process more difficult. And so he fought his most difficult battle yet inside his own mind.
I think it is telling how his struggle with depression is the difficult battle for him, not the physical battles he has to fight.
I loved this book. I recognize that it has some pacing issues that make it technically weaker than previous books in the series, but because of Kaladin's and Navani's storylines, this might be my favorite SA book so far.
For someone with chronic depression, I could definitely see it as a great book. For the rest of us, I was ready for him just to retire and leave the fight to everyone else.
I'm a veteran who struggled with depression and even got told to start the divorce paperwork over the phone from my high school sweetheart while on deployment. I can say from experience that kaladin is a little b itch who needs to put his big boy pants on. He went from the most relatable character for me, to the one I would skip when his chapters came up.
Sando needs to give Adolin more development instead of being a platform for other characters growth (including his spren).
I love Adolin, i hear you, but I think why I love Adolin is that even though Shallan, Kaladin and other radiants have all these powers they still need Adolin who is just a normal guy to rely on. But yeah more Adolin in book 5 would be awesome, but not as a radiant.
Maya’s growth is only made possible through adolin’s actions and the care he gives her. Essentially maya’s growth is actually a reflection of Adolin and not Maya. Adolin has had to deal with suddenly being less useful now that there are so many radiants, and has had to fall back on his values as a person - now through him living by those values (i.e. showing love and respect to Maya, risking himself to convince the honorspren) he now has the potential to become radiant himself now that maya is awakening. It’s a pretty awesome arc if you ask me with big potential in the coming books
Nah. I like Adolin specifically because he's a platform for other characters' growth. Among all these wrecks of people, it's so refreshing to see a simple guy who just wants to do good and help his friends, and succeeds at that. There's value in having an almost-purely support character in a story, who helps others while not being dragged down by his own problems.
I rank them Words of Radiance, Way of Kings, Rhythm of War, then Oathbringer, but I also put them all at 5/5 so it doesn't really matter??
I rated most of these books 3-4 stars. But I still recommend them and I love this series
I think Brando thought the same thing and the mental arcs of those characters have a sort of wrap up in the book, i think the next book will not be define by mental health and being sketchy. This 4th volume is just a prologue, the real slaughter will be in the next volume. Good video.
About the mental illness thing - the "whole character is just his mental illness" thing is actually a thing that sometimes does happen in real life. This is, off course an oversimplification, but at the crisis points it does sometimes feel like there is nothing else going on in that persons life. Doesn't mean that the person is defined only by the mental illness, but it's such an overwhelming part of life that it basically pushes out everything else. I actually quite loved what Sanderson did there.
And because I were already super interested in Parshendi, this might just be my favourite Stormlight book so far!
You are correct, to an extent. Someone who is as depressed as Kalidan or as crazy as Shallan are defined in real life too to their mental illness. It's all encompassing and pushes others away, like the book did to me with the characters. It's a fantasy book, not an abnormal psych class. I'm done with all the mental illness in all the characters. PTSD, depression, multiple personality, Autism, TBI, ADHD, addiction, and NPD. How much mental health do you need in one book and to have it at such a forefront?
@@kalel33 well, guess what. That fantasy book reflects the real life people extremely well and that's how people are, especially in extreme circumstances. The book isn't about mental health, it's about how real people deal with life.
@@MioMyDog Wasn't about mental health? Let's go through them: Anxiety, depression, ADHD, TBI, PTSD, NPD, Autism, drug addiction, and multiple personality disorder. Those were all focused on extensively in this book. Brandon even admitted that he had help from a Psychologist to write the book because of how much mental health championing he was going to do.
Also, mental health isn't near as prevalent in real life as it was portrayed in this book.....nowhere close. He does do a good job of portraying mental health, like severely depressed individuals pushing away others and sabotaging themselves but I was also fed up with Kaladin to the point that I was hoping he would remain a healer and let others take of the mantle for the remainder of the fight. I was done with him, like many are with people with severe depression. Also, Autism wasn't well written for how they are in real life. He wrote it so the character would be more enjoyable.
@@jaydrawz53right ! That dude would just abandoned his friend if he has depression..what a nice friend.
I have to agree, this is my least favourite Stormlight book. I was really surprised by the number of people claiming it was their favourite after release. I found much of it a chore to read, eg the Venli chapters bored me to tears. It does have some really great parts, and much of it is incredibly important to the wider cosmere, but overall it just missed the mark for me as the pacing was way off.
Was it a new editor? It seemed like it to me as it felt like it could have been someone that wasn't as comfortable challenging Brandon to tighten sections up, the way it had been done in previous books.
Overall it was good, and the repercussions of things that happened could be terrifying, but it just wasn't as enjoyable a read as the others for me. It's nice to know it wasn't just me that felt that way.
the pacing is 100 times better than Oathbringer. it was really enjoyable for me
👏🏻 Great video! You were thoughtful, concise, and absolutely spot-on.
ROW was still an enjoyable read, but the variable writing (overwritten sections mixed with underwritten sections) was the main problem I had with the book. And there were so many things that made me feel like the main characters either seriously regressed (in a way that felt inauthentic/not fully developed) or they just had insurmountable character impasses that they then spontaneously overcame at the eleventh hour. I felt cheated out of a convincing arc in the character development either way.
Still; you raise good points about Navani Kholin. She wasn’t as well handled/realized as some of the focus characters in previous Stormlight books, but she was the best part of ROW.
Hi Jay, almighty RUclips algorithm has brought your channel to my attention due to my obsession with Kingkiller Chronicle... And I'm very grateful for that! Your videos are the best and I don't understand why are your subscribers about 5 times less than what you deserve. The only explanation I see is that most of the big booktubers connect their names with the name of the channel. Kvothe would agree that names are powerful... You might consider that. In any case please keep up your awesome work ;-)
This is pretty much how I felt about the book. My review was vaguely positive and I think we had similar points. One of the things that's really stuck with me since I've read it, and you mentioned here, is that how much of the book takes place in one spot. Roshar feels largely unexplored and I know we have 10 books but at 4 books in i thought we'd have a bit more explored location wise.
Also I agree on the editing, the book felt a little rough around the edges at times.
Wonderful review, your video editing is seriously bonkers.
Oh man. RoW is one of my faves so far. The scenes with familiar characters had alot of depth added to their arcs, without dragging down the story. We KNEW that Kal and his father were going to need to work through things, and Sanderson doesn't waste our time rehashing everything we've already seen. His depression affects that relationship. It ISN'T magically instantaiously solved by a single heroic moment. As someone who is not nureotypical this means so much to me. Its not a minor thing that is magically overcome, like so many fantasy stories. They use people like me as props or phases for their characters to pass through, and then write us out of the story, the entire world. I've NEVER scene representation so good, and so accurate before. I love the way Shalans and Adolin's arcs have some paralells, but come from different places. She deals with the consequence of her actions, but everything doesn't get magically solved at once. These things heal slowly, and don't just get wished away, and they are one of the biggest reasons I connect with these characters.
I totally agree. The way the Stormlight Archive deals with mental illness and human psychology is amazing. That moment when Kaladin experienced the healing of his trauma put this book right up there for me!
I can see how you would absolutely love this book, from your own personal experiences but for the regular person, the mental health was so overarching with so many characters that the story and character development took a backseat to championing mental health.
I'm just here for the war in the comments based on the title.
I actually think it’s a pretty popular opinion
I will stand on this hill and fight a war ✊⚔
@@CapturedInWords I agree with basically everything you said and it's also my least favorite so far.
I think one Problem with the flashbacks are, that the further along we are with the main timeline the less we care about the past/know already so much that it's not as exciting as it was in the beginning. With book 1 we got to know past kaladin at the same pace as present kaladin plus we learn a lot about the world. With shallan we were teased from the beginning that she has a secret that even she didn't really know, we wanted to uncover it. Same with dalinar we knew there was something, but we didn't know what is was also we (again) learned a lot about the past. But with venli... we already kinda knew what happened/could pirce it together really fast with all the information we had, it also wasn't really surprising, and from eshonais pov we already knew how the listeners lived. We basically knew past venli and knew nearly nothing about present venli.
Me seeing this title and thinking how RoW closely ties with WoR on being my favorite stormlight😅😅
I've been trying to finish this book for the last two years, but every time I pick it up again, I know why I dropped it in the first place.
i had absolutely no problem finishing it, it was amazing. i had what you described with oathbringer
I bought this book when it came out…. It’s 2024 and I’m still struggling to finish it.
He's gonna kill a lot of characters in the 5th book, I'm scared 😬😬
I don’t get how you could say we don’t get a lot of Kaladin and Shallan. Dalinar I can very much understand, but the other two have MAJOR character arcs in this book.
Yeah, here's the breakdown of how much of the book was from each of the main characters' points of view.
1. Kaladin: 21.7%
2. Navani: 18.5%
3. Venli: 13.7%
4. Shallan: 13.2%
5. Adolin: 8.4%
6. Dalinar: 7.3%
I think I get where he is coming from, for me it was more a case of we didn't get anything new from Kaladin and Shallan, instead it was more of the same things we have already gone through with them, just in slightly different settings.
@@thewhiskybowman I'd say with Kaladin and Shallan, we got the climax of what he's been building towards with them for the last 4 books.
@@VoidLantadd It certainly didn't feel like a climax to me, but I can see why others could see it that way.
@@thewhiskybowman I can understand that's what he's trying to say, but I just don't agree even slightly. What we see from them are the same problems, yes, but now they've gone from just being personal journeys to affecting their relationships with other people.
Kaladin can't get over his depression to the degree where everybody pities him for it and Dalinar straight-up retires him. Shallan's multiple personalities are more-or-less in tune with each other after oathbringer, but it's a massive strain on her and it's straining her marriage and her trust in other people. Plus we learn even more about the roots of her issues and got tons of information that ties her character together. This is basically the climax of their story.
So yeah, it's the same set of problems, but with vastly deeper dimensions.
Kaladin 'John McClane' Stormblessed. All I thought of was Die Hard when reading the Urithiru parts of the book.
Every chapter with Taravangian made me cry, what a tragic character 😢😢
What in particular about his story makes you cry? I just see him as someone with a big ego that he let overshadow his heart
you sound really closeminded then@@kelsybobelsy
@@andreww4751 how so?
The sad truth about mental illness is the fact that it ends up defining people in real life. I think characters continously struggling with these issues is closer to being realistic.
Yes but he is overdoing it.
I think the big thing is people without severe issues think it isn't that defining. The people who know me would never think my depression defines me. They know I make dark jokes and sometimes get really reclusive. But if could see me internally they would see how it moves the tides of my mind and changes the winds of my heart. It defines me in a huge way.
I get it, but to me it is boring to read about that.
I agree and it’s a constant fight.
I guess it is more enticing to read about if you yourself are going through similar emotions. I can see how it would be boring to someone who doesn't battle with such things. But it is extremely realistic in regards to what the characters have gone through and how long it is taking them to get over it. I lost my wife in mid 2020 and I will forever battle demons over it. So I really respect his commitment to the battle within his characters and how they are slowly but surely healing.
The fifth book Will take place in Szeth’s footlooker. The epicness is just not there any more. The world of Roshar is getting smaller.
maybe open your eyes. this book was 100 times more epic than oathbringer
100 x 0 is still zero.
I love this review. I agree with a lot of this. I on part three of the books and I so lost about all the cosmere reveal. I read mistborn era one that the only other sanderson work I read. Part three is very much a drag so far I hope part four will be better pace.
This was my least favourite Stormlight book as well. In addition to the things you mentioned, which I agree with, there were two major things: the book is mostly setting up things for Book 5 and the end of Part 1. I imagine it'll be a better read once we can appreciate it for the things it allows in Book 5, but for now it's just a lot of set up without enough pay off. Then there's also the fact that as someone with depression, Kaladin's chapters this episode made me start to lapse into a small depressive episode. I imagine if I didn't have depression the book wouldn't have felt as difficult and painful to get through as it did.
No, it Kalidan's depression was horrible for me and I don't have issues with depression. I was done with him and his issues. I was hoping he would just retire and be written off, with someone else taking up the mantle.
Agreed!
do you guys even Raboniel and Navani??? The Shadesmar stuff? this book was amazing. It had a TON of payoff, more than i imagined. did we read the same book ??
Great video Jay!
How different opinions can be. I loved this book and found it way better than book 3. I loved every plotline except the flashbacks and didn’t find part 3 sloggy (part 4 of oathbringer was way slower imo). Navanis plotline I found so interesting because her antagonist was so good. Kaladins character growth was awesome and in THAT shallan chapter I had tears (my first tears I had ever from media). I never enjoyed Dalinar as much as the others, so I didn’t mind him being not as prevalent.
As a conclusion, I loved that book and found it better than Oathbringer but it’s still just my third fav.
Aw Kaladin officially became my most favorite character in all fiction after this book. WOR is my number one favorite Stormlight book, with ROW as a close second. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it as much as you wanted to. I think my only serious issue with the book was what happened to Moash at the end 😬
I just finished the book this morning and think you are spot on - pacing, language, character all were just not as good as the previous ones. I get what Sanderson is going for with the "everyone is broken in a different way" theme, but I am not finding it enjoyable to read. A lot of this book felt like work to read to me, whereas the other books were page turners and I just wanted more. There were amazing moments that made me excited or teary eyed - it wasn't a BAD book, but I re-read the previous books right before reading this one and it was, sadly, a let down.
Im pretty sure it is szeth. Let's explore them shinovar and shin culture boys. I hope.
Very good that you mentioned things you weren't enjoing. It's sounds now like a real review and not psychofan's babble
Cracks in the narrative started oin book 3 and grew here. I really hope Brando takes his time on the next on and works on his other novels and stories while it stews
I disagree with you and this isn't me praising Sanderson blindly at all...frankly, I found OB tedious to read. Parts 3 and 4 should've been cut...Part 2 could've also used a bit of a trimming and the whole Sanderlanche felt like a lame attempt at beating the perfect WOR Sanderlanche....
Anyway, onto the characters, this book was incredibly character focused, close to the level of TWOK in my opinion. I felt like it was necessary that Sanderson FINALLY dealt with the characters one final time because I KNOW Book 5 will be all plot and barely characters because most of them have reached their peak by now. From the way Sanderson wrote OB, he clearly opened up new arcs for both Shallan and Kaladin from the end of Part 3...with Shallan being forced to start dealing with her lies after Wit's talk and Kaladin going into battle shock for the first time. Part 4 of OB was just them trying to figure out Shadesmar so they didn't really get much time to deal with their issues and Part 5 was, you know, Part 5 isn't enough...flash forward to one year and they've only got worse in their specific misbeliefs because if their consistent putting off of facing their problems. Kaladin freezes a lot more often and Shallan has become so engrained in her own lies that... she's just horrible. I don't know if this is what Sanderson was going for, but the inclusion of Lirin was a great touch for Kaladin's arc in this book. The differences in their philosophies was really interesting to explore, because I don't see there is any right or wrong side to it. Kaladin FINALLY accepting he can't save everyone, that what happened to Elhokar wasn't his fault... throughout the previous books, he's never dealt with accepting the fact that he can't save everyone.
Dalinar was all Book 3, so him being mostly absent in Book 4 was bound to happen, considering that Sanderson has big plans for him in Book 5. I did feel a kind of Deux ex machina when he came just at the right time to save Kaladin, but that's fine (let's face it...no one is ready for Kaladin to die, but y'all aren't ready for that conversation, also Sanderson isn't exactly known for killing characters, he's known for putting them in deadly situations and finding interesting ways to get them out)
I really enjoyed how Sanderson delved into what war makes people do...from Kal's battle shock to learning all about the tragic history of the Listeners(P.S. Venli, Eshonai , Rlain and Raboniel are really underrated as characters). I can't say much for Leshwi because I didn't get to explore her as much as the other four in this book. The Listeners deserved better, that's all I'll say(and I have more questions on how Sanderson will handle this theme in a way that isn't...problematic considering the real life allusions to colonialism and slavery).
This book had hands down, the best villains. I don't think any Sanderson villain tops Raboniel and Moash. I saw Lezian as an analogy to Kaladin's depression coming to him again and again, and it was so clever. Dabbid was...chef's kiss
I must say,however, this book marked a remarkable shift in tone for the series. This book was far darker than the others...there was no Bridge Four banter, Shadesmar was full of mystery and mistrust on Shallan's part, and Wit was barely witty in this book. Also, I feel like there should've been a trigger warning for this book...certain parts get really triggering and heavy. I resonate with Kal a lot but man, reading his parts got really hard at times because of how close it hit home. And there was no breathing space because this book is filled with melancholia from beginning to end.
I had no issues with the pacing, the flashbacks were really few and so short as well. I get how it can feel redundant after the WOR and OB interludes, but I'm a fan of the Listeners...I find them so fascinating
A nitpick of mine is the Mink...why did we go through all that in Part One? I hope he's worth it in Book 5 because I feel like there's a lot more beneath the surface.
Anyway, I really liked the book for its intimacy with both the characters and the setting and the Sanderlanche was my fave. I was so glad he didn't make it bigger than OB. The OB one dragged!
Overall, this is my fave Stormlight book and I do feel it will be more appreciated during rereads. But hey these are just my two cents. Sorry for making it an essay.
I completely agree. Basically they go from best to least favorite in order they came out. My favorite are Way of kings and Words. I could go on forever about it but RoW spent too much time on things I don’t really care about. I felt like not that much happened either. The story managed to feel small and confined and that’s unusual for a Sanderson book. Sanderson is brilliant though, so I do give him Leeway.
Going to read it soon! I can't wait to hate Moash even more... (I'm scared)
I wanted to rip the book apart with what that a*hole did 😶
Jay: "For some reason a few of the big reveals are just briefly mentioned, and then pushed under the rug."
SPOILER
Me: Looks at Shallan
Fr tho, that reveal was so disappointing
@@milospollonia1121 yeah, the idea of formless was really interesting to me but it just felt so sloppy and rushed and it made me kinda sad
First, I love your channel and content! You seem a very cool guy as well. I have Rythm of War in my shelf waiting for me to read it, but Im currently finishing Oathbringer. Its good but Words of Radiance is my favourite so far (As Shallan is my favourite character followed by Dalinar). Maybe the end of Oathbringer surprises me... we will see.
Thank you! WoR was amazing, and Shallan is great!
You hit the nail of the head for me in regards to the mental health being what they were defined by. Shallan was my favorite character, even have a print framed in my living room, but I absolutely hated her story in this one. She lost who she was in order for Brandon to do a PSA on mental illness. The same can be said for most of the characters in this book. He wanted to do a book on mental illness and he accomplished that, at the loss of who the characters were previously. This was, by far, my least favorite Brandon Sanderson book. It took me quite a bit to get through it and for the first time, I'm not excited about the next one.
Same.
I think the next book will have a pay off for all of it. He’ll show that the characters are not defined by their mental issues.
I so agree with you, this was not my favorite Stormlight book. I thought he overwrote several parts and just dropped other parts. All the characters have to deal with a new world with a new world war, shock and awe was all over the place. I took this book for a "middle book" getting stuck in certain plots and some characters getting lost. It is a good book, but of all the Stormlights this is my least favorite.
Thanks Jay!
I just finished this book last night.. I kept looking at the books like nah.. but I had 1 credit on audiable and since Doors of Stone is still not done I started The Stormlight Archives. I enjoyed it and the way he is dealing with Kal, Shalon, Dabbid.. I also like the connections I cough to Mistborn. My problem is I now need a new saga to start.. Im super picky thou.. I have all the WoT, KKC, SLA, Mistborn and SoT. I like my books over 20hrs and have several books to go threw. Any ideas on what to start next in the same epic fantasy style if possible?
@F G2000 I'll look it up tonight
This series isn’t for everyone but I personally loved Robin Hobb’s Farseer books!
This book was a bit tedious for me and the payout wasn't worth it in the end 🙃 I agree that the characters started to become caricatures. I wish there were a few more surprises. Everything felt pretty predictable, but also for me I thinI it took so long to get to the twists that they lost their inital excitement once they finally were fulfilled. I feel like by the end I lost all my emotional investment.
lame take i experienced absolutely none of that. the ending was amazing , the whole book was amazing
lame take i experienced absolutely none of that. the ending was amazing , the whole book was amazing
I totally agree with you, this was my least favorite so far. I often found myself frustrated as it felt like the book wasn't going anywhere.
🤔 I've noticed so many times with reviews that many times, the majority of criticism can be linked to "I expected something different."
You are right. That's the reason I couldn't enjoy this book. The first Sanderson book I found hard to read. And I've read them all.
I'm still not sure whether Oathbringer or ROW is my least favourite. I think the fourth one has a structural problem, the third part felt too long and could have been mixed with other parts, and the book should've been 200 pages or sho shorter. But I also really liked all the smal details, how explicit information regarding the Cosmere has become, the explicit mentions to characters from other books and how events from previous books are starting to take shape. I think that ROW is great if you like spending time in this world, learn more about little aspects and if you like slower fantasy but if not it can be disappointing. I wonder though what will happen in the next book, since it's the last one from the first arch it'll probably be epic
This was a great video mate. I hope I like RoW as its a big book to be reading if I don't. And I think Sando said book 5 was going to be Szeth, but dont quote me on that.
Really liked the Oathbringer review and dont to have to watch this whole video to tell you that it already made me very happy. Thank you!
Great video! This series is just getting better and bette, but I really want the settings to be branched out more. The shattered planes were great and urithiru was interesting, but I would have loved to see more places. Specially Rock’s home land the horneater peaks.
I knew that each Stormlight book will have a different character view and arc because of you, and that helped me read the books not expecting to read all about the main cast all the time.
So it came as a surprise to me that you wanted more of the main cast from this book.
Anyways, excellent review as always! I'm glad I read RoW before watching this, as your views and the comments might have affected my interest going into the book.
Glad that you were brave enough to discuss what you didn't enjoy and your critique was fair. I don't feel the same way about most of it, but that's okay. Some of the mental health themes I think repeat on purpose because, unlike some big bad you fight externally, these elements remain with you and need to be managed. That is the one thing that made both Kaladin and Shalan's stories amazing for me. On some level, one may feel like it hits similar beats, but I get why it would feel that way if you had that condition.
RoW spoilers
My biggest issue with RoW is the lack of depth we got from the Shadesmar plot. To me that was the most interesting part and it was so minimal. Every interesting thing that happened there happened way too quickly I felt like we needed more fleshing out. It read like a copy paste of an outline for those sections than a fully developed story. I could be picky because the Maia and Adolin plot development and Shallan's other spren (basically the truth behind the previous radiants and how dead spren work) was so insanely intriguing to me... but I don't think I am being /overly/ picky. Idk...
Where did you get the music at the beginning? It was beautiful
Rhythm of War, from what I feel is a setup for book five, Sanderson’s tried to highlight the silence before the storm.
I am about eighty ages from the end of NOTW, last few chapters were like Pat pressed the pedal and plot like raced forward with Chandrians and everything, but then came the Dracuss and it feels like a bit meandering again. I am sometimes annoyed by it, but I am definitely enjoying it. Thanks Jay for making me pick up this book.
the book was full of action idk what you talking about. the only part that maybe dragged was part 3, rest were all insanity
Szeth is the flashback character for book 5
I have loved the Stormlight Archive, but I will agree that Rhythm of War was my least favorite. I actually fell asleep several times while reading. That’s never a good sign. Sometimes Sanderson rambles and doesn’t say anything that adds to the storyline.
...and I’m really tired of the three faces of Shallan.
You know, this hurts me, because this was my favorite stormlight book
Ohhh nooo haha
@@CapturedInWords hahaha its cool. I'll do my best to survive this fatal blow
All good. To be honest Oathbringer was my least favorite, as I didn't feel it moved the plotline or characters as far downrange as the first two books did. Even Dalinar's arc wasn't particularly mind blowing or transformative. I know that is apostasy around these parts, so my point is only that we all have our likes and dislikes. Though I agree with you that Eshoni's flashbacks seemed the most redundant in the series. And I really am dissapointed that Adolin didn't get more to do than be Shallan's sidekick.
My favorite SA book is Oathbringer. Rhythm of War was a little disappointing for me? I wanted to spend more time exploring Shadesmar and was pretty disappointed at how much I had to read about Kaladin and co. sneaking around in Urithiru. There were still a lot of amazing moments and the big one at the end had me bawling lol. But it was the first SA book where I really felt the pacing issues.
I had many of the same thoughts. I wonder sometimes if Sando is trying to be cool w/ the mental health and cringe-type dialogue. I feel like Shallan's development as a strong independent character took a huge nose dive with this book. I didn't enjoy the Kaladin and Shallan arcs but like usual the good vastly outweighed the bad and it is my least fav of the series.
I loved Shallan and her independent attitude. I even have a print framed on my living room wall of her. I lost almost all my positive view of her from this one book.
When I saw that generally this instalment wasn't receiving as much positivity as some of the other books I was quite shocked! I actually really enjoyed it! I found Kaladin's arc really relatable and I connected to it a lot and was also just obsessed with Raboniel as a villain for this story! Admittedly when reading most of the Venli perspectives/ flash backs I wasn't as fond - much prefer Eshonai as a character. However, I would personally put this as my second favourite after Words of Radiance. Though my least favourite is Oathbringer which seems to be most other peoples favourite, so maybe I have weird taste haha!
This book reminds me of late 80s early 90s Stephen King where he got super self indulgent and no longer had the editorial oversight that helped elevate his stories from being just pretty good to being transformed into something great.
Yes! That's a good comparison! I think Sanderson could have benefitted from another round of editing or maybe even another whole draft of the book
Fully on board with your analysis. I still think it was a great read but it did not needed to be this long. I have have feeling Brandon just wanted to turn up the page count so the book wouldn't be shorter than the previous installments.
Especially the part where he explained in great detail how the flying platforms work was a big slog. First time I skipped stuff in Stormlight and honestly it did not make a difference whatsoever.
At a certain point i started to feel that i got duped into reading a mental illness awareness book.
Completely agree... The mental illness is taking over the characters too much and making them feel one-dimensional. I get that there is even an in-world explanation why most of the main characters have mental disorders but I wish we'd move on already. Sando said that for Kaladin this book will be a breaking point and moving forward he'll be on an upward trajectory in his personal development.
May anyone tell me which Cosmere books are neccesary to read before Rythim of war to undersantd all the plots and not miss any details?
All of them if you don’t want to miss anything but mostly Warbreaker and Mistborn1. Maybe Also Secret history 🤔
Oh no. I'm currently approaching the end of part 3 of RoW and was hoping that we would finally get to see a few settings beside Urithiru in part 4, but that does not sound promising at all.
I personally loved this book. Its up there with the rest of the Stormlight Archive as one of my all time favorites. Granted, I'm not a very critical reader lol. I can't even begin to rank them in my mind until I reread them.
Your belief that the characters would be ok was not one I shared and so this book was SUPER tense throughout most of this book.
Also I agree with most of the sad boi stuff, and yet. I loved his arc in this book again. I would say that in this one he was struggling against odds more than he’s struggling against himself which is his historic stance.
I have to agree. I didn't like mopey Kaladin and Veil being a split personality of Shallan's spawned from childhood doesn't make sense with what happened in the second book.
And what exactly is the deal with Shadesmar? Humans had forgotten all about sentient spren and only Jasnah had vague knowledge of the place. So how come spren have markets that trade clothes? Food? Are familiar with medicine and how to purify water? And the only access to Shadesmar for humans who weren't Knights was in the Horneater mountains.
i honestly wish that this book had navani flashbacks instead of the venli/eshoni flashbacks tbh.
I liked the Eshoni flashbacks but not Venli's.
The flashbacks were completely pointless. It’s the first book where we learn nothing new. They just show us all the things that we already knew happened offscreen. It was interesting but pointless.
Ad I remember an incredible amount was revealed. Not always the what but the how from things revealed earlier sure, but there was plenty new or fleshed out from something that was totally vague earlier on. Many series have a huge fall-off in learning about the world building after a few books and then focus in on plot developments and I don’t think SA deserves a poor rating on that front whatsoever.
The main inefficiency lay in the backstory content which Sanderson has admitted. I think there were a few essential things he still needed to convey but still wanted to do a whole arc just like the other books and couldn’t get away with a few random essential flashback scenes.
I think Kaladin still needed to deal with Tien’s death. Until that happened he was going to be “sad” Kaladin
This qas either my favorite or second favorite book in stormlight. I had such a hard time with the first two, and the shadesmar stuff in Oathbringer was super hard, but this one was just way way easier. So many great reveals, Raboniel is amazing, Navani is incredible. So much good stuff.
Your review echoes my thoughts on this book sooo closely. I was very surprised to see people giving this book 5 stars and gushing over it online when, compared to the other books, it's by far the weakest. It has all kinds of pacing issues and I really don't care about Navani that much. I was so annoyed by some of the creative decisions around the main cast, namely reigning them back in and making them fade into the background when they should be the ones driving the plot forward.
Dalinar is one of my favorite characters. That being said, this series is huge and of course he’s going to have to give characters outside of the main cast the time to develop.
Dalinar won my heart when he went out to piss, had a boulder almost smash into him, seen the Storm Father walking, and gave him the middle finger.....my man!
Thank You !!!! Thats what I thought about ROW it was by far my least favorite book in the series but everyone else seems to like it.
Same, I had to really push myself to get through it. My problem before was putting the books down. I literally forced myself to finish just to get the salient points of the story.
There wasn't anything that made it a bad book but it felt a little more of a slog, and some things seem to have regressed with some characters, almost like Sanderson needed to slow down the growth of his characters to fit the arc rather than allowing them to grow organically.
I like rhythm of war over oathbringer
My thoughts during every Navani/ Raboniel chapter:
“I’m telling you, that experiment could be the star of a show called Experiments I Don’t Care About.”
Firstly, how dare you.
Second: get me a pickle jar
My favorite is probably Words of Radiance, least favorite Oathbringer, though they’re all amazing.
This is the closest to my thoughts that I've seen online
My friend finds oathbringer to be the best and I think that Rhythm is.
Our biggest point of disagreement: pacing.
More happens in oathbringer than Rhythmn but the pacing is all over the place. The shadesmar and bridge 4 sections are plain at best and boring at worst. But rhythm, while being paced better, plays it almost too safe with its structure. It's a straight shot through to the end without any interesting detours.
I still retain that there is not a single stormlight book that is less than great. But yeah, rhythm of war was my least favourite. Still enjoyed the hell out of it.
Man this video says exactly what I've been thinking, thanks for the awesome videos.(spoilers) By the way what's your opinion on jasnas's trick she did on a specific high prince in a specific tent? It feels extremely hypocritical to me especially since she talked about democracy to Dalinar a moment before her move. She used a law to her advantage and then immediately got rid of it. She claims democracy is important and then immediately dethrones humiliates and inflicts her opposition? That was such a character assassination it took her character from one of my favorites to the worst. Also prediction Hoid is dying in the next book sadly!
This! ^^ Finally somebody dares to criticize Jasnah's behaviour re Ruthar. It WAS completely ooc (until then). There were more events that put me off: the death of Raboniel's daughter being called "a mercy" (because she was disabled) put a total stop to my reading for several days. The characters always acting, but never really INTERacting anymore as well as the pacing, the balance between over- and underwritten and the completely unsatisfying flashbacks. WoK and WoR remain my favs.
I really loved this book however some of the flashbacks were kind of boring to the point that flashback chapters were my point of ''Ok flashback chapter guess I'll take a break and start here later'' and its sad because Dalinar and Shallan flashbacks were what you craved in Oathbringer and Words of Radiance but in this book they were not that interesting I think the final flashback chapter was beautiful and tear jerking but most of them were very normal for our ''Tragic Flashback Chapters'' also since Venli was already kind of developed since Oathbringer the flashbacks didn't serve to redeemed her or to show that she would change because since the beginning of the book she already was decided to help as a radiant, yes she wanted to escape with her group and be free of radiants and singers but still she mentioned she needed to talk with the radiants and learn so she was already a ''good person'' or at least she had surpassed her worst moments. Now I don't know why people hated the book and called it a ''guide for mental health'' yes there was a lot of from Shallan and Kaladin but if you are reading book 4 of the stormlight archive then by now you knew the payoff of both storylines would be big and satisfying and it was. Also the Navani and Raboniel scholar bond was very amazing and the discoveries made in those chapters were jaw dropping. It really is amazing how a storyteller can make something that was established and you thought it didn't need more explanation into a whole big subject like he did here with the different types of light and the rhythms and finally you know that part 5 in stormlight books is ''La creme de la creme'' and yes for me this is the best part 5 of all the stormlight books, the tension and the stakes made me so nervous that I read it in one seat.
Finally! I loved it, but yeah, it's tied with WoR as my least favorite
Rhythm of War is most favorite SA book to date! ^_^ I love Venli's growth so far!
I think this review has too much info to be considered "spoiler free".....
Agree with some parts, but disagree with you on characterization. A lot of characters, in particular, Kal have phenomenal growth. There are other arcs (keeping spoiler free) that are just mind blowing for the cosmere.
Hmmm well I don't think I spoil anything to do with the main plot really? While writing the review I compared it to some other spoiler free ones just to make sure I wasn't pushing it. I did really enjoy Kal's story in this one, he was probably my favorite POV this time besides Navani. I just sometimes feel like Sanderson is stunting his character growth by dragging out his mental health issues and internal conflict. Still love Kal though, and yeah I agree some of the Cosmere stuff is mind blowing in this one, it's definitely the best book in terms of Cosmere info and reveals
Maybe cause you’re already late on the 4th book🤣 I wonder why people weren’t interested in the third lol
I started reading this right after finishing Oathbringer for the first time... I was almost bored to tears in the first few chapters... it seems like all the same crap, over and over again, plus sypical and predictable escalation issues... but... I'll push on through. It is just a slog at this point.
Honestly, the Stormlight book quality overall has gone down. I think to rank them, I’d say WoR, WoK, OB, and RoW. There are parts in each book that I love and the BOOKS themselves aren’t awesome reads but the world....dear sweet goodness me the world is the cocaine of literature. (Don’t do drugs!!)
RoW part 1 was my favorite part of any Stormlight book (just friggin amazing) but overall the book was my least favorite.
Brandon has talked about how he sometimes feels forced to write a series and it becomes a slog. I think he's starting to get this way with Stormlight and he did the overarching mental health to give him something new, at the sacrifice of the story.
I'm really nervous about reading this book oathbringer was really slow to me so far words of radiance is my favorite in the series
My ranking, 1, 4 or 2 would have to reread, and 3. Don't get me wrong. Loved a lot of 3 but if you got to rank it was my least favorite but I still loved it!
You brought up some really good points in this video and I think it's totally fair to get critical about the things you love. Peace!
Re-read the series and now i think oathbringer/Rhythm of war are tied at number 1 for me.
WoK and WoR feel like one MASSIVE book as does Warbreaker and RoW. Just great books all around.
Felt this book was a huge slog, can you do a spoiler version covering it? Might be handy in the future :)
This book is crazy hard for me to rate because while many of the scenes in this book are among my favorites in the series (with one being probably my absolute favorite) this book was just too damn long. The beginning twenty ish percent and the last twenty percent were amazing but that middle was really inconsistent
This is NAVANI'S book. And Venli, but she's.... Less... There?
The only flashbacks that I've enjoyed were the Dalinar flashbacks in Oathbringer, since they are funny/dark rather than just incredibly depressing.
I just watched your review before my reread ahead of the 5th book and I totally agree with the flash backs and the parshendi. The pacing as well was not handled well. Great review
I think a lot of people agree with you but are afraid to be criticized for it