@@PunchyYT in my opinion, the Kills Formula also contains an error in its original form x = Attacks with Extra Weapons - (15 + Clear count * 5) (x cannot be less than 0) But x = Attacks with Extra Weapons ÷ (15 + Clear count * 5) theoretically makes more sense
19:11 we actually have the answer for this. just as with the equivalent ending and Dog Ending in Silent Hill 2, the developers knew people who liked the game would play it multiple times and discover new things. they were therefore worried that players would get too sad and depressed exposing themselves to such a dark game over and over again. so they put funny joke endings in that such players were likely to discover. also, the juxtaposition of the silly stuff with the serious makes each type of content more effective.
i just beat this game for the first time today and i decided to google how the star system even works and after watching this i'm even more confused than before but i enjoyed the video!
You should save the game at the last point possible before the end of the UFO ending and modify the save file to erase all the items, just to check if the game can even display 0 stars.
This is a message for future Punchy (because he said to engage), a Punchy on a day where life is beating him down. I want that Punchy to know that I and many others appreciate what he does, and know that our lives are made better for it. Thank you Punchy.
Looking forward to hearing about the accumulative results of community efforts to drive down Silent Hill's new "Low%" speedrun category, founded shortly after the release of this video (with the rule that it is *totally valid and even recommended* to start with a save file that has already expended 12 hours of in-game time, because fuck that requirement in particular)
@@HeyItsLollie honestly, I think it would be best for the low% speedrun community's collective sanity to do this. Otherwise you will have people trying to time their start so that they barely cross the 12-hr mark right as they finish the run.
I would have thought they'd probably just have coded in some kind of minimum rating of 1 just to constrain the range of possible values and avoid any sort of weird bugs from trying to display negative numbers, but it's funny that they didn't have to simply because of the way the game is structured. It's even better that it happens to land on exactly 1 star, the minimum possible thing the screen could display that isn't nothing at all. I would have expected it to land on like 7 or some other low but fairly arbitrary number., like SH2.
It's fascinating how such not obvious runs idea can discover bizarre random things, like that lock programmed to have health ha ha. And video overall was very enjoyable and interesting to watch!
Very interesting, I always enjoy these weird challenge runs rather than the average Speedrun. Shame I can't catch this on twitch would be cool if you'd upload the entire vod here
this is a good idea which is why I remembered that I actually did intend to do that and have had the footage sitting around for months, it can be found here: ruclips.net/video/YEtNLc4UqE8/видео.html
This actually makes me want to beat the game again, fighting knife-only like my brother's co-worker supposedly did many years ago. With "Silent Hill"'s already fascinating and tense atmosphere, I think that could reignite my somewhat lost excitement for the game. Thank you for the inspiration!
was about to say this! a lot of people cite twin peaks as a huge inspiration for silent hill, but x-files was also heavily inspired by twin peaks, got dubbed for japanese television, and even got a manga adaptation. it definitely wouldn’t be too out of the question for the silent hill devs to have created the ufo ending as a nod to x-files
@@noctillucas6861Twin Peaks was a major inspiration for a lot of surrealist "real world" mystery stuff. Kind of odd how rarely it gets brought up today.
Honestly, drugs isn't even that improbable neither. Team silent's video "ki no ko" apparently translates to "mushrooms" and its easily one of the accurately trippiest music videos I've ever seen.
I absolutely adore the first silent hill (waiting on a remake KONAMI) and I never knew how the ranking system actually worked, granted I never bothered checking but I've gotta say this answered pretty much every question. Great vid!
This was honestly a super interesting video Punchy! I really liked this combination of analytical breaking down of the game's systems and, as you said it, what became basically a challenge run. Great work Punchy, I know I'm quite late to the party so to speak but I hope you keep it up with these types of vids!
I wonder if 1 star being the minimum is some kind of fail-safe built into the calculation. Depending on how your ranking is stored in the game's memory, a negative number would either be no big deal or end up causing a huge problem. If your ranking is stored as a signed integer, then negative numbers would be just fine. Signed integers can hold anywhere from ~negative 2 billion to ~2 billion. The game could've probably just been programmed to show zero stars if the number was 0 or less. However, if the ranking is stored in an unsigned integer (which, in computer memory, can store anywhere from 0 to ~4 billion), a negative number would probably cause an integer underflow. In other words, because an unsigned integer cannot be negative, it'd instead underflow to 4 billion. Considering your score is supposed to be anywhere from 1 to 100, it's a pretty sure bet (I think) that this would cause some pretty strange undefined behavior, if not just crash the game outright. So, I think that might be why the ranking system is formulated in such a way that it's impossible to score lower than 1, because (depending on how they programmed it), anything less could potentially cause some serious issues. This is just speculation though, I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to try to find out myself lol
(in advance, i mean this as a positive comment) A channel containing pointless stupid runs in convoluted ways to prove a point nobody asked for... Instantly subscribed and notification bell hit. 😁 Honestly, i love the idea of doing a whole run just to find an irrelevant point out - and i completely applaud your ability to dedicate your time to these runs (especially after seeing the RE2 no-walk video yesterday).
something something comment, something youtube algorithm also interesting video, i could never get my head around SH1's point system so it's nice to actually have some clarification on it
yeah it's something I spent a lot of time trying to figure out back when people were trying to route proper 10 Star speedruns and I've been burdened by the knowledge ever since lmao
Sad, what a dissappointment that you can not achieve something you have worked so hard for. When people try hard to achieve something I can not help but root for them.
This video is a perfect example of the reason I love horror game communities so much. You've got to be a little bit messed up in the head to enjoy these kinds of games so it then creates a small community of insane people who do insane stuff like this.
I'm so mad it can't be done by *one* point, not even like the minimum being a larger number. Amazing work, and so much determination to complete it, well done. Great vid. I hope someone will absolutely break the game with cheats to skip items and we can know if it displays 0 or still always displays a single sausage of a star
if you could cut three more items off this, it could be possible even without a cheated play. but if you hack the game and just freeze your score to zero, it can totally display zero but that's like, no fun.
@@PunchyYT I'm glad to know that! I am not a speedrunner, so I wouldn't personally go for the challenge of a legit 0 star, and even though it's awesome I was just more curious if it was ever programmed to display 0, or if they didn't have that since it wasn't possible. That question haunted me more than anything I hope someday a run that can get a true 0 can be done though!
Engagement comment time. Uh... Typical day in London for Harry! The padlock taking several hits to break is probably the funniest thing to me here. Does make sense though I guess, try breaking a lock with a knife, you'll probably end up with a broken knife and a few cuts on your fingers.
0:30 Classic RE games don't care how many times you saved, it only cares how fast you beat them. I think Code Veronica might take saves into account, but that's the only exception. I THINK.
Year late, but my "Totally Unauthorized" BradyGames guide for SH1 barely acknowledges that there's a ranking system at all, in the secrets section. All it really says is that it exists, with no explanation of what specifically goes into the calculation (not even speculation or noting that it goes up to 100/10 big stars) and nothing on what grades you need to unlock the bonus content. I remember this guide being a real hunk of shit, and looking at the secrets section helps that recollection. You know it doesn't mention the katana or Hyperblaster at all, and in fact only tells you _two_ of the channeling stone locations; showing that they couldn't be arsed to get the UFO ending?
I replayed this just the other day and questioned whether or not the lock has health because it'd be a weird thing to program but would make some form of sense, I guess. Good to know that you've answered my question!
The problem with that is the fact that in order to get 1 star you have to take over 12 hours. so a "speedrun" that starts from truly fresh will always be twelve hours long no matter what you do. it's not really a speedrunnable thing by nature.
great vid! with a completely straight face i love your content that's just niche bullshit and this is the niche-est of bullshit. watching this live was great fun and reliving the highs and lows in the video was great too
I was considering getting the SH map blanket however I couldn’t resist owning the James jacket instead Though after buying it I was like “I’ll never financially recover from this” but now that I have it I’m wearing it far too much Help… (P.s. I need to find my wife as I got a letter from her in the jacket)
Interestingly this means that both the UFO and Bad ending need a skip that would allow you to avoid 3 items in order to get the theoretical 0 point score
After saw this video I propossed to myself to get the worst rank on the first four games. I will upload the first game soon. If you are interest to see it when i upload it just leave a coment.
in day we didnt know a score system we just playd and got wat we got . i think we try save very little and best it fast as we could thinkin tht is how u got certain endings
Do you know what does the second row of stars in the ranking mean? The first time I finished the game, I had a row of 3 big stars above and a second row of 9 smaller stars below, so I thought I got a score of 3 of a maximum of 9. But that meaning cannot be correct. Moreover, I had a saved state so I repeated a final portion of the game again and I got a rank of 4 over 3. And now I see that when you finish with 1 star, you don't get the second row. Why does it sometimes appear and sometimes doesn't?
Might be too late for this comment but the original creative director for og silent hill was just a fan of old school UFO films and added it as a fun ending
16:25 It actually doesn't answer the roinding issue completely. Rouding down(to a lesser, and in case of negative, bigger vales = lesser) and rounding towards zero are two different approaches 😂 By default, IEEE754 rounds towards nearest even number, so we can at least be sure that's not the case xD
The real moral of the lesson is books are wrong
my downfall was believing in reading. never read.
@@PunchyYT
in my opinion, the Kills Formula also contains an error in its original form
x = Attacks with Extra Weapons - (15 + Clear count * 5) (x cannot be less than 0)
But
x = Attacks with Extra Weapons ÷ (15 + Clear count * 5)
theoretically makes more sense
Book Bad.
Book = idea. Idea = danger. Book = danger. So say Caveman Grok
This is why I don't read.
"What you gonna do? Stab me?"
- the bosses, probably
"You can't hit me through a horse!"
Moves around horse
"I have legs, you know?"
:shocked pikachu face:
*Punchy:* “Oh shit!” ☠️
Oh god! I'm weak to bullets!
"You can't hit me through a horse. It's a horse, stupid." Nice last words lmao.
Loved the video!
19:11 we actually have the answer for this. just as with the equivalent ending and Dog Ending in Silent Hill 2, the developers knew people who liked the game would play it multiple times and discover new things. they were therefore worried that players would get too sad and depressed exposing themselves to such a dark game over and over again. so they put funny joke endings in that such players were likely to discover. also, the juxtaposition of the silly stuff with the serious makes each type of content more effective.
i just beat this game for the first time today and i decided to google how the star system even works and after watching this i'm even more confused than before but i enjoyed the video!
i understand our solar system way easier than silent hill’s star system
You should save the game at the last point possible before the end of the UFO ending and modify the save file to erase all the items, just to check if the game can even display 0 stars.
Nice video! That's correct, if you wait out the clock on the final boss you don't gain the kill
good to get a second opinion on that because I was not entirely sure
you dedication to failure is admirable
This is a message for future Punchy (because he said to engage), a Punchy on a day where life is beating him down. I want that Punchy to know that I and many others appreciate what he does, and know that our lives are made better for it. Thank you Punchy.
Looking forward to hearing about the accumulative results of community efforts to drive down Silent Hill's new "Low%" speedrun category, founded shortly after the release of this video (with the rule that it is *totally valid and even recommended* to start with a save file that has already expended 12 hours of in-game time, because fuck that requirement in particular)
@@HeyItsLollie honestly, I think it would be best for the low% speedrun community's collective sanity to do this. Otherwise you will have people trying to time their start so that they barely cross the 12-hr mark right as they finish the run.
Ah yes, the strongest Silent hill foe, stronger than Pyramid Head.
*L O C C*
I would have thought they'd probably just have coded in some kind of minimum rating of 1 just to constrain the range of possible values and avoid any sort of weird bugs from trying to display negative numbers, but it's funny that they didn't have to simply because of the way the game is structured. It's even better that it happens to land on exactly 1 star, the minimum possible thing the screen could display that isn't nothing at all. I would have expected it to land on like 7 or some other low but fairly arbitrary number., like SH2.
It's fascinating how such not obvious runs idea can discover bizarre random things, like that lock programmed to have health ha ha.
And video overall was very enjoyable and interesting to watch!
Very interesting, I always enjoy these weird challenge runs rather than the average Speedrun. Shame I can't catch this on twitch would be cool if you'd upload the entire vod here
this is a good idea which is why I remembered that I actually did intend to do that and have had the footage sitting around for months, it can be found here: ruclips.net/video/YEtNLc4UqE8/видео.html
This actually makes me want to beat the game again, fighting knife-only like my brother's co-worker supposedly did many years ago. With "Silent Hill"'s already fascinating and tense atmosphere, I think that could reignite my somewhat lost excitement for the game. Thank you for the inspiration!
The lock health was absolutely iconic to catch live! This video was absolutely great too! Very informative and nice.
The Cybil fight had me laughing so hard. You are insane for doing this knife only, no heal.
19:12 Why is the UFO ending in the game? The original 'X-Files' TV show was massively popular at the time of Silent Hill 1's production.
was about to say this! a lot of people cite twin peaks as a huge inspiration for silent hill, but x-files was also heavily inspired by twin peaks, got dubbed for japanese television, and even got a manga adaptation. it definitely wouldn’t be too out of the question for the silent hill devs to have created the ufo ending as a nod to x-files
@@noctillucas6861Twin Peaks was a major inspiration for a lot of surrealist "real world" mystery stuff.
Kind of odd how rarely it gets brought up today.
@@atmosdwagon4656 I bring it up every chance I get, excellent tv
Honestly, drugs isn't even that improbable neither. Team silent's video "ki no ko" apparently translates to "mushrooms" and its easily one of the accurately trippiest music videos I've ever seen.
great watch! very fun explanation and clips! I love all your "explaining" videos or videos where you just talk about things!
Thank you very much!
@@PunchyYT absolutely! I am always excited when you upload one of these! thank *you* for taking the time to make them!
I absolutely adore the first silent hill (waiting on a remake KONAMI) and I never knew how the ranking system actually worked, granted I never bothered checking but I've gotta say this answered pretty much every question. Great vid!
I laughed so hard when you picked up that guide after the UFO ending
I award you one Harry, and may Valtiel have mercy on your soul.
Loved this. Seeing someone so knowledgeable able the game try something new was really interesting to watch!
This was honestly a super interesting video Punchy! I really liked this combination of analytical breaking down of the game's systems and, as you said it, what became basically a challenge run. Great work Punchy, I know I'm quite late to the party so to speak but I hope you keep it up with these types of vids!
I wonder if 1 star being the minimum is some kind of fail-safe built into the calculation. Depending on how your ranking is stored in the game's memory, a negative number would either be no big deal or end up causing a huge problem. If your ranking is stored as a signed integer, then negative numbers would be just fine. Signed integers can hold anywhere from ~negative 2 billion to ~2 billion. The game could've probably just been programmed to show zero stars if the number was 0 or less.
However, if the ranking is stored in an unsigned integer (which, in computer memory, can store anywhere from 0 to ~4 billion), a negative number would probably cause an integer underflow. In other words, because an unsigned integer cannot be negative, it'd instead underflow to 4 billion. Considering your score is supposed to be anywhere from 1 to 100, it's a pretty sure bet (I think) that this would cause some pretty strange undefined behavior, if not just crash the game outright. So, I think that might be why the ranking system is formulated in such a way that it's impossible to score lower than 1, because (depending on how they programmed it), anything less could potentially cause some serious issues.
This is just speculation though, I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to try to find out myself lol
I've been waiting for this video after trying to explain it to a friend. Now I can just send them the video!
Same reason UFOs are in Majora's Mask. Alien fever
Oh, I hope those aliens get well soon
Heh
I found this channel during the weekend and I have more or less binged all the non-speedrun videos. Absolutely top tier channel, highly underrated
(in advance, i mean this as a positive comment)
A channel containing pointless stupid runs in convoluted ways to prove a point nobody asked for... Instantly subscribed and notification bell hit. 😁
Honestly, i love the idea of doing a whole run just to find an irrelevant point out - and i completely applaud your ability to dedicate your time to these runs (especially after seeing the RE2 no-walk video yesterday).
something something comment, something youtube algorithm
also interesting video, i could never get my head around SH1's point system so it's nice to actually have some clarification on it
yeah it's something I spent a lot of time trying to figure out back when people were trying to route proper 10 Star speedruns and I've been burdened by the knowledge ever since lmao
Sad, what a dissappointment that you can not achieve something you have worked so hard for. When people try hard to achieve something I can not help but root for them.
in the end I think it turned out interesting so I'm not exactly disappointed
I would love to see you do this type of video with the Silent Hill 2 Remake, they have to tweak those scoring or something
I love this entire idea as a run, and I hope you do more of these kinds of things, but for sanity sake you might want to take breaks in between lol
Great video, watched from beginning to end, really enjoyed it
This video is a perfect example of the reason I love horror game communities so much. You've got to be a little bit messed up in the head to enjoy these kinds of games so it then creates a small community of insane people who do insane stuff like this.
Edgy much? You do not have to be “messed up in the head” to enjoy horror games lol
@@raptorrsr5817 copium
I'm so mad it can't be done by *one* point, not even like the minimum being a larger number. Amazing work, and so much determination to complete it, well done. Great vid.
I hope someone will absolutely break the game with cheats to skip items and we can know if it displays 0 or still always displays a single sausage of a star
if you could cut three more items off this, it could be possible even without a cheated play.
but if you hack the game and just freeze your score to zero, it can totally display zero but that's like, no fun.
@@PunchyYT I'm glad to know that! I am not a speedrunner, so I wouldn't personally go for the challenge of a legit 0 star, and even though it's awesome I was just more curious if it was ever programmed to display 0, or if they didn't have that since it wasn't possible. That question haunted me more than anything
I hope someday a run that can get a true 0 can be done though!
@@PunchyYT can you freeze your score to a negative?
@@1337Koios you can but it crushes stuff to zero if it's below
That's video is amazing. A challenge no one ask for. Great work ❤
What an interesting video, it is funny to see your reaction to getting that final 1-star at the end.
also punchy smells
The lock you would usually shoot having health and taking a bunch of knife slashes seems like particularly crack headed game design.
I guess it's true what they say, "Screwing up is easy, screwing up intentionally is actually difficult"
Nice vid! I love these type of deep dive videos and this was real fascinating.
thank you very much!
Punchy is making all of twitch chat come here to say: Punchy smells
Engagement comment time. Uh... Typical day in London for Harry!
The padlock taking several hits to break is probably the funniest thing to me here. Does make sense though I guess, try breaking a lock with a knife, you'll probably end up with a broken knife and a few cuts on your fingers.
Was pointed here by your streams, very neat! Love learning fun facts!
0:30 Classic RE games don't care how many times you saved, it only cares how fast you beat them. I think Code Veronica might take saves into account, but that's the only exception. I THINK.
GG Punchy, great video!
I've never seen you run or play the game before, but I am glad I got this on my recommended. Thanks for the amazing content!
You seem to be a genuinely nice, positive and funny human being. Keep it up man, nice vid! : )
Punchy is Stinky Agent for Algorithm purposes!
Ah yes, that was quite a journey
And here I was thinking the game would simply force you to have 1 star in case you had less than one. Very interesting.
I love how you dont accept no as an answer, its always really interesting to find new things about games we already know well.
Loved the vid, very cool. I wonder if my English strategy guides have the same breakdown of the scoring system. I'll have to check.
you know it's never occurred to me to check english strategy guides at any point lol
Year late, but my "Totally Unauthorized" BradyGames guide for SH1 barely acknowledges that there's a ranking system at all, in the secrets section. All it really says is that it exists, with no explanation of what specifically goes into the calculation (not even speculation or noting that it goes up to 100/10 big stars) and nothing on what grades you need to unlock the bonus content.
I remember this guide being a real hunk of shit, and looking at the secrets section helps that recollection. You know it doesn't mention the katana or Hyperblaster at all, and in fact only tells you _two_ of the channeling stone locations; showing that they couldn't be arsed to get the UFO ending?
I replayed this just the other day and questioned whether or not the lock has health because it'd be a weird thing to program but would make some form of sense, I guess. Good to know that you've answered my question!
This was a fascinating watch! It would be interesting to see a full 1 star speedrun of SH1 now.
The problem with that is the fact that in order to get 1 star you have to take over 12 hours. so a "speedrun" that starts from truly fresh will always be twelve hours long no matter what you do. it's not really a speedrunnable thing by nature.
Thanks for the shoutout! At least my research was not in vain :D
great vid! with a completely straight face i love your content that's just niche bullshit and this is the niche-est of bullshit. watching this live was great fun and reliving the highs and lows in the video was great too
Thank you very much!
It was really cool to catch some of the zero points run live. =D
I was considering getting the SH map blanket however I couldn’t resist owning the James jacket instead
Though after buying it I was like “I’ll never financially recover from this” but now that I have it I’m wearing it far too much
Help…
(P.s. I need to find my wife as I got a letter from her in the jacket)
Great video, thanks for making it.
The 10 Star challenge works only as a means to replay the games. Without it, I wouldn’t play a story driven game nearly as often 20 years later.
I'm morbidly curious what a One Star Silent Hill Speedrun would look like.
Paradoxically harder than a 8 star run
Great video Punchy
Thanks!
Top 10 curiosities about Punchy:
1: Punchy smells
2-10: Punchy smells so much we couldn't stay near him long enough to discover other curiosities
Interestingly this means that both the UFO and Bad ending need a skip that would allow you to avoid 3 items in order to get the theoretical 0 point score
Great video! It really displays everything in a very interesting way.
Love this video, thank you!
Thanks for watching!
I applaud your dedication to this cause damn
I wonder if its possible to modify a save file to get to the end of the game so you dont have to pickup any items at all
As an old SH1 veteran, very interesting video!
After saw this video I propossed to myself to get the worst rank on the first four games. I will upload the first game soon. If you are interest to see it when i upload it just leave a coment.
I know you said 2 wouldn't be as interesting but I'd love to see more games tackled like this
Fascinating. It probably shouldn't be, but it is. Also, I keep falling for your fake video endings, dammit!
Always enjoying your Videos Mate 🤘
Christ almighty that wasa great ride.
Sweet, nice video and good editing. Very interesting
15:23 I've never noticed this before! Is this the same Naoto Oshima who designed Sonic?
I wouldn't think so, I think he had formed Artoon at the time this game released, and was still at Sega up until then
Would love to see more like this ^^
Honestly, this could make a nice low percent meta in the speedrunning scene, just like in the Zelda and Metroid speedrunning scenes.
the algorithm says that punchy smells. the video does not smell
I look forward to the new 1 star category for each game in the series
Smells, Punchy
Best SH playthrough ever!
in day we didnt know a score system we just playd and got wat we got . i think we try save very little and best it fast as we could thinkin tht is how u got certain endings
Punchy does not smell. Gotta be different here.
Maybe the real zero star ranking was the friends we made along the way
Do you know what does the second row of stars in the ranking mean? The first time I finished the game, I had a row of 3 big stars above and a second row of 9 smaller stars below, so I thought I got a score of 3 of a maximum of 9. But that meaning cannot be correct. Moreover, I had a saved state so I repeated a final portion of the game again and I got a rank of 4 over 3. And now I see that when you finish with 1 star, you don't get the second row. Why does it sometimes appear and sometimes doesn't?
big star is 10 points, small star is 1 point
so big 3 small 9 is a score of 39 and 4 big small 3 is 43
@@PunchyYT Thank you
Punchy Smells
This is top quality content
This was fascinating!
who would've thunk that getting 0 points is harder than getting 100 points
You know, I wonder if its possible to display 0 stars. Somebody could probably cheat to lock the score value at 0 and then see what gets displayed.
ONE, YOU GET ONE.
Punchy's smell 1/10 stars
Ok earned a sub you're so cool hahahah especially your face beating the first boss the second time hahahah
Punchy still smells, hours later.
I came here after Punchy made us watch it on stream✌
Might be too late for this comment but the original creative director for og silent hill was just a fan of old school UFO films and added it as a fun ending
16:25 It actually doesn't answer the roinding issue completely. Rouding down(to a lesser, and in case of negative, bigger vales = lesser) and rounding towards zero are two different approaches 😂 By default, IEEE754 rounds towards nearest even number, so we can at least be sure that's not the case xD
Oh, forgot to add that its all in an assumption they compute a signed value instead of an underflow 😂