How “A WELL TRAINED WIFE” Narrowly Escaped Extreme Christian Patriarchy with 4 Kids
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- TW: DV, SA, R*pe
Tia Levings discusses her dark reality in Christian fundamentalism, with evangelical patriarchy and religious trauma. Having appeared in the Amazon docu-series, Shiny Happy People, and written a harrowing memoir, A Well-Trained Wife she reveals how she had to save herself and her family and details the ways that extreme views can manifest in a marriage.
Recruited into the fundamentalist Quiverfull movement as a young wife, Tia Levings learned that being a good Christian meant following a list of additional life principles--a series of secret, special rules to obey. Being a godly and submissive wife in Christian Patriarchy included strict discipline, isolation, and an alternative lifestyle that appeared wholesome to outsiders. Women were to be silent, “keepers of the home.”
Tia knew that to their neighbors her family was strange, but she also couldn't risk exposing their secret lifestyle to police, doctors, teachers, or anyone outside of their church. Christians were called in scripture to be “in the world, not of it.” So, she hid in plain sight as years of abuse and pain followed. When Tia realized she was the only one who could protect her children from becoming the next generation of patriarchal men and submissive women, she began to resist and question how they lived. But in the patriarchy, a woman with opinions is in danger, and eventually, Tia faced an urgent and extreme choice: stay and face dire consequences, or flee with her children.
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CHAPTER MARKS
00:00:00 Intro
00:05:07 How Tia was raised that led to falling prey to her husband
00:09:32 Did Tia's parents read her book?
00:13:15 Nightmarish doctrine Tia learned in her youth
00:16:26 Tia's husband didn't believe in consent
00:21:12 All that's needed is a submissive and willing spirit
00:23:37 You will drown in a lake of fire if you are not pleasing to God
00:32:45 Selling the patriarchal movement to women- what that literally means
00:37:22 Not allowed to have anything for yourself as a woman
00:39:02 TW: Domestic ab*se- calling it a "correction"
00:44:37 How Tia emerged from the isolation through secret online communication with women
00:50:18 What it was like being a mother within this ab*sive reality
00:55:49 Tia decided to escape when she saw how it was hurting her chiIdren
00:57:11 Tia's escape story
01:01:41 How Tia's chiIdren handled it all
01:04:48 When did Tia feel safe enough to deconstruct and begin healing?
01:10:53 Advice for someone going through a similar situation
01:16:52 Linda, Listen
Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.* 
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This is a very disturbing story! Breaks my heart. I am nearly 65 and have been part of conservative Christian churches all my life and know of no one experiencing anything like that. We were always taught that husband and wives need to have mutual respect and honor for each other. My husband, of 46 yrs, and I were talking the other night about God's plan for marriage relationships. And we reviewed how important it was to be a team and grow together over the years. He said his daily goal was to make me feel loved and treasured. This lady's story is definitely not of a marriage that is patterned after Biblical teachings. Anyone that promotes this as Biblical is not reading their Bible! So sad!!!
You’re so right in your assessment about this NOT being a Biblical marriage or even any type of family life or how our Heavenly Father foresaw His Made in His Image children’s lives. Domination and dictatorship are NOT part of the Biblical pattern, it’s completely “man made” and vile in God’s Eyes. I’m so thankful that Tia was able to escape this dreadful situation, with her precious children. The saddest part, in my estimation, is that what Jesus has done for us as human beings (he gave His Life to offer us Salvation for Eternity) has been totally tarnished by these twisted domineering teachings of man! God/Jesus/Holy Spirit in NO WAY coerce, manipulate or dominate how we should live. It’s a free gift from God for us to be free to love and serve Him ✝️ We have been GIVEN a choice to accept or reject our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and His greatest desire is for us to choose wisely with His Wisdom and not man’s domination. God Bless you, Tia and your family, on your journey of discovery and freedom and I pray that the freedom is in Jesus Christ our Redeemer and our closest brother who loves us way beyond our comprehension and offers us true peace in and through Him 🙏✝️🙋♀️
This life we live, that each of us individually live, are all unique. She told you about her life, not yours. Why are you defensive? There must be something in there that is making you uncomfortable, that is up to you to figure out.
Exactly!!!
She was married to a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Preyed upon literally.
Marriage is a beautiful representation of Christ relationship with his church .
Tia’s experience was not a marriage in this sense.
I’m devastated for her.
Can we talk about how no matter what the sexual issue in a marriage it's the woman's fault. If he lacks interest, it's the woman's fault - she must be letting herself go or isn't inviting or something. If she lacks interest, it's her being a prude or simply her being disobedient. No matter what it is, it's the woman's fault
It’s something they think is a way of control over them. I was accused of with holding and control over them and what ‘they’ want - not that they were never affectionate or kind. I was cook, housekeeper, farm laborer who was also expected to sleep with them on demand.
My situation wasn’t even based on any religious stuff, he was just a man (and 18 years older than me) I escaped
😢 yah, and women are still just trying to catch up on understanding our sexual desires, which the larger world didn't think existed for so long.
@@booksquid856 And a lot of us have had those desires extinguished because of the fear and trauma we've endured
It's like this with everything in these cults. The men are in charge and have all the say in everything, but have no accountability for their part in how things turn out. Everything is blamed on women/girls, children, or the secular world. The men are not true leaders, because true leaders take responsibility and accountability. These men are leaches. They extract all the labor, all the money, all the respect, everything from the people below them solely for their own benefit and at the expense of everyone else.
That's exactly why patriarchy has invented marriage...
My mother was a victim of marital rape until I busted down the bedroom door and physically pulled her out of the situation.
Wow. So sorry you had to do that. And I think you are amazing.
@@rebeccamouse9294 thank you my mom didn’t think she was worth someone better and I got tired of the men she chose and that man hit my last nerve that night and I fought back. He was a coward, he was all big and bad till you stood up to him then he showed what a coward he was abusing women, and my daddy didn’t raise me to be a submissive female.
I'm glad you intervened! That's horrible.
@@G14-Classified you are amazing. I hope you are ok. That’s a lot.
@@rebeccamouse9294 thank you yes it was a lot but I’d do it all over again and yes I’m doing good 😊
I hate having to breathe the same air as people who think this kind of thing is ok, in ANY religious or other context!
Christianity is not to blame, she made a bad choice in who she married, she should have left. She is blaming her poor decision making on religion and thats not ok either
9 total pregnancies, 5 live births, 4 servivng children. That hits hard.
Tia's very spot on assessment of mental illness and personality disorder running rife in the Patriarchy is something I WISH more people recognized. Absolute power corrupts. History knows this, and yet......
NPD/ASPD/BPD run rampant in fundie groups because they are attracted to the perfect clusters of groomed victims. Most of these groups were organized and created by narcissists and grifters such as the Gothards. They write theology and doctrine which serves their purposes of control, giving them a never-ending stream of vulnerable bodies to exploit. When one abuser falls from the top, another rises, and within the ranks many find refuge to indulge their worst fantasies. The whole idea is rotten from root to tip; that was its whole purpose.
Well who else would fall for such a faulty belief system, except for people who are already mentally ill?
This is NOT what true Christianity/marriage should look like!!!
@@judymartuscello114 if u say so. I've yet to meet any "religious" person that I'd even trust to water my plants. ✌
@@judymartuscello114 do you believe in patriarchy or equality in marriage?
Leaving is the most dangerous time for women in abusive circumstances.
I found the danger actually exhilarating as well. Here’s why: I felt I had literally split in two, I guess you’d call it disassociate? There was the vengeful, secretive, planning part of me who organized and perfected. Then there was the part of me who stayed and made life calm as possible until all the timing was right. It was like having one foot on each crevice of a split mountain. Danger followed and I broke once it was done, then got up and started again, then broke...it wasn’t like a heroine movie with a woman’s muddy head emerging from murky water, all determined and ready. It was fast and then slow, emotional then numb. Integrating and getting things right took lots of help and counsel because children were involved. And having to review and resort and refile a mess of life history til it all made sense took years. But one thing I know and I think I always knew from earliest childhood: the punishments dished onto young girls presumably by God, told by men about eternal hellfire and destructions and then living through the parents alcoholism and dysfunctional life because mom was stuck in the subservient powerless role-that made me stay way too long in submissive roles. I’ve escaped much but plunged back into the wrong things too so had to do a Finale Exit and learn NOT to keep repeating patterns. So now I’m working on saying, “No. thank you but no.” And people don’t like that! They see me as kind and “an easy target”, a “soft touch”, and then suddenly: “Leave!” or “No!” and wow, they get angry.
Before I had a massive ischemic stroke 9 years ago I was a traditional wife and mom but that was my choice I had always wanted to be home raising our children, I did the raising of our children, did the cooking and cleaning and my husband took care of the yard we had that arrangement for 25 years until the stroke and I was left with a paralyzed left hand and arm and I was no longer able to do the cooking and cleaning anymore plus the state suspended my drivers license so I could no longer take my kids to their sporting events games and practices my husband had a very rude, quick lesson in everything I had done for 20 plus years that he had no true idea🤷🏼♀️
It was only last year that marital rape became illegal in the state where I reside.
Wtfff where’s that at? I can’t imagine 😮
When I was 3 I remember my scum dad beat and raped my mom. When I got older she told me the police told her you can’t rape your wife. I was shocked.
Marital rape was just abolished a couple months ago in my state. There are politicians here that ardently support marital rape
So sad :(
@@cowgirl9014 wow unbelievable
I often wonder if many women living in very patriarchal and religious societies outside the USA are secretly accessing this information. I hope so, hearing about women getting arrested on the streets for not wearing a certain item of clothing is terrifying.
We have enough worrying in the very patriarchal and religious societies into USA
Innocence does allow one to be victimized. We have to talk about those things that are "taboo" in order to put a stop to the abuse.
Je ne crois pas que ce soit l'innocence qui permet d'être victime,c'est plutôt l'ignorance,mais lesutilisent le besoin naturel de l'être humain de se connecter avec Dieu pour choisir délibérément l'enseignement qui leurs permettra plus tard de dominer les autres.
I remember when I explained to my grandma what the concept of marital rape means, and her expression when she realised that's what happened to her wasn't how is supposed to be. She gave a look like she was trying to remember all the times it happened to her
Just imagine how many of our grandmothers experienced this…just a heartbreaking thought.
I had a similar, but not the same, reaction when I realized my hubby's paternal grandmother had been subjected to the same sort of sexual abuse I was experiencing; she "couldn't walk down the stairs." Yeah, I know what that feels like. What made me really, really angry was when the doctors at Kaiser P totally gaslighted me all about it. They were VERY busy defending my sexual abuser. I sure would like to sue them for damages.
Policing my own thoughts still gives me hives 40 years later. Thankful for therapy.
Carl Jung's Shadow Work (valid legitimate therapy we use in Recovery) will help so very much with that. Owning imperfection takes the pressure off. Life isn't about perfection, it's about progress ❤🩹
I am bawling.
Tia's story is almost _exactly_ what I went through in my first marriage 😢💔
Tia, you are my HERO!!!!
You, too, Shelise!!
❤️❤️❤️ sending love!
My girl Shalise helping expose the underbelly of these cults once again. This woman, Tia, is so brave and I can't wait for the book! 👏📚❤
😁🙏
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
Great interview! My heart sank to my feet when I heard that these groups teach even to neglect and traumatize little babies by hyperscheduling newborns Non responsive sleep training is so cruel and so harmful! - and for what?! To be s**ually available for the patriarch of the family!
And not taking children to see doctors and dentists when they need it!
These pastors who teach families to neglect and abuse should go to jail!
Newborn care specialist here. Schedules after the first weeks is actually amazing for newborns. They don’t have to reach the point of hunger and feel and communicate the distress of hunger. Scheduling is preventative and it’s why babies on schedules, fed with bottles, not breastfed on demand smile earlier and more often and have happier more satisfied temperaments. Look it up! It’s well documented. But the first few weeks, just feed them. Simple.
@@hannahward4703 "Specialists" and their fabricated theories (changing all the time) ... When I was born, the "specialists" were sure that premature babies like me couldn't really feel pain or be traumatized by pain. Sorry, but I am not buying your advice.
Tia Levings has been speaking out for a long time. She is inspirational to me and to so many women exiting Evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christianity.
Her story about how she was sucked into an abusive marriage due to compliance with "God's will" was very similar to mine. We both attended a megachurch and given constant reinforcement by our parents and church about pleasing an unpleasable punishing god under threat of hell fire, from toddler age.
I heard her speak ancient , suppressed Feminine wisdom: "We create our own hell and heaven here."
This explains patriarchy so well. It is alive and well in America.
"Survivors have to be willing to tell what happened even if it's embarrassing." Such a powerful statement. We can do better than our parents did with the hope our children can do better than us. This story is so important because I lived this for 10 years and needed to hear it. I know it will reach people of every faith or nonfaith that needs to hear it too.
I didn't even grow up in a cult but the cult of patriarchy that dehumanizes women is pervasive. Incredibly sad how so many people experience this around the world! Motherhood so many times give us the will to fight against what hurts us and our kids! Literally crying because this story is so close to my own.
"you're only as weak as your secrets" that shame exists to keep people trapped in these groups and it's just sad
It's hard because you do things you regret and can feel like you have no right to judge.
You captured and expressed it so clearly...... thank you. Is it possible to get your posts?
I love her "save yourself" message. It is very empowering and a voice in our heads most of us need
This bears absolutely no relationship to the Presbyterianism I was brought up in. It amazes me how it has become so corrupted by men, for the sole benefit of men.
I just read a history of Scotland and the early Presbyterians were mad when Mary Queen of Scots wanted tolerance for Catholics, Protestants and Episcopalians. Also no witch burning. They were so mad about banning witch burning. So the Presbyterians have a fundamentalist history even if specific American congregations are liberal.
There are many flavors Presbyterianism. PCUSA is normal. PCA and OPC are very conservative, and there are others that are even more. EPC is a mixture of normal congregations and very conservative ones.
@@camrinemmons3788 I would like to read that book, or article, or website... can you please provide the title? 🙏 please and thank you.
@@cristinamz2137 - I listed to this audiobook. While it is Called a Short History of Scotland, it is an 8 hour listen. ruclips.net/video/ykyhrz94Ou4/видео.html - I acknowledge that how the Presbyterians were in the time of Mary Queen of Scots vs now is very different.
@@camrinemmons3788 Thank you, it's very much appreciated.
Bro sometimes you hear someone speak and you just KNOW they’re a phenomenal writer. I can’t wait to read this book!!
Your interviewing style is so full of grace and compassion ❤️ Your tone of voice is soothing - helping your guests share intimate moments and difficult situations with us. I am so glad I found your channel. My childhood trauma isn't the same as yours, but trauma is trauma - we need to know we aren't alone ❤
Thank you, Sherri ❤️ that means a lot.
You’re definitely not alone
Just reaching out as a mom who lost a child to a heart defect (HLHS) in 2008 (he was 5 months old all spent in the ICU) to send love and comfort! Time is irrelevant to grief and I hear and see you! ❤
❤️❤️❤️
Fantastic interview Shelise! Many of your guests have written memoirs... may I suggest something? It would be great if there were a reading list on your channel! In the about page or shop maybe? 😊❤
This is a fantastic idea! I would love that as well.
Pretty fed up with violence against women... Like can this stuff stop??? Women are amazing... This lady is courageous and an absolute superhero for getting out and speaking out 🦸♀️.
All I keep hearing is real life episodes of The Handsmaid's Tale on Hulu 😢
So, here I am again as a 71 year old woman who escaped at 18 from the systems of these religious ideologies
Calvanist , Gothard, etc.
Your book is on my list.
I hope that it is available as an Audible selection.
21:47 at a christian high school that was fairly "normal" my friend was stalked by a kid in our class who kept saying god wanted then to be together. None of the teachers or her father would help end it. People told her to indulge him and go to prom with him instead of teaching him boundaries. I feel bad for both of them, as he was tols this was the process. But it was a nightmare for her and i was horrified.
That's disgusting. Also from a theological point of view, how utterly puerile. The adults should have stepped in.
I grew up in the 70s with my teens in the early 80s. My parents were Christian fundamentalist so I had all of this force fed to me grouping up. I married in mid-80s before marital rape was illegal. I was raped by my ex-husband. I left when I could, when I was emotionally able to do so. Every time I hear about the continuation of that BS, I vacillate between sadness and anger. I'm 58 now and have been 'away' from most of that since the mid-90s and I still find myself falling into some of the self-deprecating patterns. It's pure evil.
Kate, your parents scared me. I was especially nervous around your father. He gave off a "danger!" vibe to me. I'm glad you are with a nice guy now - and Scout, too! -Kaye
I grew up in SBC in the same time period. I’m so sorry that happened and you were able to get out. I was forced out and shunned for becoming an adult and asking why we don’t put the Bible itself into into context of the times it was written. I still miss my old friends and the closeness of the community. I feel like we are the lucky ones, therapy helps.
The SBC is really, really awful. I had a terrible experience that involved SA, that I’ve kept a secret for over 20 years. I know former ministers who are on the SBC known pedophiles list that was published a couple of years ago. Looking back, being involved in the SBC really did a number on me up until I decided to just walk away from it for good in my 30’s.
OMG, the spiritual abuse blogs have a lot to say about the SBC.
I’m glad you walked away and are still here. ❤ You’re strong and inspiring- I hope you continue to heal and thrive. ❤
Thank you for sharing❤️ it’s so gross how they turn a blind eye to predators and put children at risk. You deserved better
My Husband is a SBC pastor. We are trying, with many others, to stop abuse. Stop the secrets and coverups. So many in clergy were wrong every time they counseled an abused woman to stay with her husband. That is so wrong. Or a sa victim. If we know or even suspect abuse, we call the police. My Husband would never counsel a woman in danger to stay with her husband. It is horrible that those behind a pulpit would hide abuse. Terrible. Just know many of us are trying to change this! ❤
I'm so sorry you went through this horror. This is a terrible shame on the SBC. Your own story and the pervasive, known SA perpetrators in their ranks. I know there are spaces where churches are healthy -- and I'm glad for that -- but I'm not sure how the whole organization didn't fall apart under the weight of this incredible sin (word chosen quite intentionally). Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you continue to find peace.
I have a very similar story to hers. Watched her videos before and it really helped me see through the lies and murkiness of my marriage. I am so glad we are still here finally DIVORCED and thriving with our children!
I sooo appreciate her insight on the connections to Christian Nationalism as a political movement in North America and Europe. I became an ordained minister in the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster because I think ~non religious people need to reclaim our freedom of and from religion. It’s so important.
This was so amazing. Hearing her declare how imperative it is to keep the humanity in education with studying the humanities, this is what is lacking in education when everyone keeps pushing for STEM only subjects & yet keeps trying to ban studying history, culture & languages. THANK YOU!❤
I just put my daughter in public school for the first time in February she is in 8th grade going into 9th and they don't even have history in 9th grade. I am like WTF why is there no history class.
@colorsflight6432 seriously? Where are you where they don't have a history class for freshmen? 😬 I teach HS, & I've never seen it not required...at least for 9th grade for sure. Our state does world history in 9th, I believe.
I’m a psychologist and i work with IFS therapy a lot as I have witnessed so many times how powerful of a tool it is, and how much healing it provides when we approach our self and our parts with compassion and curiosity. I’m really glad that you found your way and you healed from all the trauma you had to go through, you are a warrior!
So beautiful to hear her say, “I have the moxie.” So empowering and hope giving to hear this.
Ms. Tia, never stop telling your story. It helps others who have experience this type of abuse. Stay safe and stay strong.
I think it is clever to name this Train Up a Wife - the extreme man will think this a good book for their wife. Bazinga patriarchy!
We are most definitely our own saviors. As the popular audio goes, “No one is coming.” After all those years of surviving life, it is worth the seemingly added effort of breaking free to live deliberately. I loved this level of intellectual stimulation. Great guest. Thanks Shelise!
We are HERE for Tia Levings ❤
WOW! Shelise, you're right! I knew patriarcal cults were horrible and WRONG, but this takes it to a whole new level! I'm a Christian; however, this is NOT how I believe. In fact, the church where I am a member teaches women are 100% equal to men. We are respected and given the same opportunities as the men in the congregation. Our leadership would not in any way support these abuses. Good for you, Tia! You made the right move! ❤
I’m so happy to hear that those churches exist!
Same. And we have Presbyterian in our name.😛
It's really important to hear the very clear statements that this has a political arm with political aims to enforce these values for all women. It's not said enough.
Thank you for speaking up. I left a DV situation and I’ve often said since a DV relationship/family life is EXACTLY like a cult on a smaller scale.
Liked. Shared. Commented. Up the algorithm!
I'm very thankful that Tia doesn't just talk about her experiences, she contextualizes it within the whole of the abusive systems she was in and dissects elements of it (how the fear of eternal punishment keeps people in line, how there's the strategy of people self punishing, why people join these groups, etc.). If her book is written in a similar style, I've no doubt it will help people escape similar situations.
I remember watching SHP and how Tia's story in particular struck me. I'm not a mother, I don't plan on becoming a mother, but even imagining a situation where a hypothetical child of mine was threatened is crushing. She was and is so strong for helping herself, her kids, and others.
Thank you both Shalise and Tia for this video!
I agree!
That the social worker told Tia to run is such a special thing. It's terrible that she had to, but at the same time, social services can make it much worse by forcing you to interact with the abvser, even giving them your kids...
So that was really a blessing to have such an individual instead of enablers
Tia is an absolute queen. Someone posted on FSU that this interview went up, the way I RAN over here!! Absolutely cannot wait to read her book! You both are heroes, so glad you've escaped and you are helping others to do the same.
Thank you for your support!
So glad to see Tia Levings here! I follow her on Instagram and really appreciate her insights ❤
I grew up Missionary Baptist, and the Umbrella of authority, but my pastor made it clear that the wife wasn't a doormat. She was your helpmeet, and should be cherished. I'm sorry for all you've been through, but all teachings are not this extreme. I believe you only follow your husband (after you've prayed for your own discernment), if he's treating you as he cherishes, loves and respects you as a partner. Forcing you to do things is a red flag that God is not involved in any of his decisions in life. Bless you for sharing your story so that red flags can be seen as soon as they appear.
If you happen to marry someone who is difficult or abusive, the average church sadly will not help. The wife is often told to pray more, submit more, trust more. Even in Joe-regular churches.
@@laurakoschIf the church doesn't help, you call the police. Abuse happens in and out of the church. Sadly most abuse victims stay with their abuser and stay silent for very complex reasons that are difficult to understand. I've never been to a church that allowed abuse to go on. Most of the time these woman don't even seek help from the church, but still blame the church because there's a hidden bias in most of these videos. I'm glad these women are sharing their stories and I'm learning from the stories--- but there's a clear anti church bias.
@@sugarspice7768
I speak from experience. We were in the most mainline and seemingly healthy baptist church that did not seem cultish or overly legalistic.
We had a youth pastor who assaulted some of the teen girls.
The head pastor, who we had previously adored, did his best to cover it up.
He sought legal counsel to avoid involving police and the girls and families were pressured to keep quiet.
If I hadn’t been through it, I (like you) would have never believed this could happen in such a nice normal church.
The girls involved were so destroyed. Lasting effects for 10 years.
I know that’s a bit of a different topic, but in hindsight we see that the attitude towards abused women was similarly damaging.
@@laurakoschI think this entirely depends on the denomination. In the PCUSA, allowing an abused spouse to continue to suffer without help and support would not happen. Individual congratulations have different levels of help they can provide, but never would an abused spouse who came to a PCUSA church asking for help be told to go home and endure.
What is a "helpmeet"?
The care and keeping of a writer should be a book all its own
Omg my jaw dropped, I've been hoping you'd get Tia on your podcast as I've been following her on IG for a while.
AND huge compliments to you Shelise, you're an incredibly skilled and talented host!
Thank you! I really appreciate that!❤️
I’m so sorry you went through so much. I was married to an abusive fundamentalist man 1982-83. As horrible and traumatic as it was, it was nothing compared to what you and other women have gone through/ going through in the hyper conservative crap that “modern” fundamentalist churches teach “these days”. 😢
The reason why they want you ti have a lot of kids, but don't prioritize health or education is because they teach the only thing that's important is the afterlife. So all that's important is living this "godly" life where the male is king and gets all the importance. It's genious actually. That's why it works. It works for them, but not for the women and children.
As Tia shared she brings back moments in my own journey, giving myself permission to get out of marriage to borderline husband- yeah for the friend who provided a book, including how to get out. Also my brave eldest who got out, spoke truth and opened my eyes to the damage I allowed. I am still walking in my faith and have a wonderful Christian community, the leaders of the church agreed for me to meet with them when the divorce was fresh. My message to them was to ask a woman if she was safe- My husband was a difficult, argumentative male and I was isolated by him- Now I am free, but it took 30 years of marriage before I could see things were not going to get better and were rapidly getting worse. My children have told me they would not come home ever if he was still with me- now we all have no contact with my ex. Safe and growing and happy -
That's great!
I love to hear Tia's perspective because she lived it as a grown adult and mother. Many of the survivors were children and their perspective is important. Tia is one of few who was an adult.
Does anyone else feel or grew up in an environment where you or mom were constantly being shamed to be a tradwife? Moms feeling like they failed their roles because they have to work and support their kids in addition to their husbands?
My mom was one of the shaming moms... I grew up lower middle class in Mexico, in the early 00's. Big city, too. Her mom did odd jobs to make ends meet and two of her sisters were working moms. She shamed them so much for needing help with childcare, used to say about other women that they shouldn't have kids if they're not going to take care of them, and warned me that she would never watch my kids should I need it. She was a stay at home mom till I was 18, and had a hell of a time finding work since she has no formal experience or education beyond middle school. She still shamed working moms after becoming one herself.
@alejajm1666 I really wish women and girls got seen more as just housewives. I grew up also lower class in Virginia. My mom was also distant from her sisters and didn't decide to move west until she got a job opportunity. My sister and I were so happy when she finally divorced her racist, redneck husband
@@alejajm1666 Wow! Women can be so cruel to each other. They should be supportive of other women.
That is sad. The shade is cast in both directions on this issue. Women are hard on each other.
Heirarchies are interlocking and even strengthen by interlocking with each other.
Each interlocking heirarchy subtracts more agency and power from the person under domination.
Also, each heirarchy serves to bolster and normalize the other heirarchies.
It is like living in a big city surrounded by high rise buildings. A person raised in that environment can't visualize living in a wide open space.
I cannot imagine a church with 10k people in it, that is staggering! I was raised SDA and although we were much more moderate I have am still affected by that upbringing. I was so used to being told who I needed to be, how I had to act, that I feel like that at age 44 I do not know who I am, or what I want. My husband and I are doing our best to break the bad habits we were taught and raise our kids in a safe, caring family where they can be whoever they really are. I think we are going OK, my girls are 11 and talk to me and their dad about things we would never with our parents, especially around sex and sexuality, its so strange because it still makes me uncomfortable, but I do my best to be open with them.
Non Responsive sleep training is as old as the hills. My parents drugged me so they didn't have disturbed nights. I thought that par for the course with my parents, being out of nearly same type of Patriachial dominance(EB). But when I did Midwifery in Inner London the Bengali Mothers also practiced Non responsive training on their newborns. As Muslim parents they held much the same practices as Tia experienced.And actually it is said their goals are the same of "world dominance". Its probable though that their children will not be so co operative.
Beautiful voice, smile and lady! Courage with a capital C 🕊️💎🚀👏🦋
She is such a smart, educated, brave woman. Wow. Inspirational❤
These interviews are so healing. I don't come from a religious background, but from generational narcisistic abuse. My expirience is so close from these ones that I feel close to the healing journey of your guests. Thank you! ❤
Your channel is giving me so much to read, I cannot keep up!
Same! 😂
Thank you so much for speaking up. I have been unpacking my own trauma in religion that did have some affiliations of IBLP. It's been emotional, and I am still learning more, but this has helped me know that some of the things I have experienced, I am not alone.
Thank you, Shalesse, for giving us a voice.❤
I am so glad you interviewed Tia. Her story is an amazing journey of recovery.
I've followed Tia and hear her 100%. I was in the same church in FL as her when my daughter was a middle and high schooler - and at home, I was in a covert abusive marriage and indescribable abuse still from my family of origin - but the good Christian wife stays.... and i did, in the marriage almost 30 years and didn't escape the other family situation until my 50's. All in the name of IFB, Southern Baptist and being bred from a tiny child by a mentally ill mother who got ahold of a KJV Bible. I am free of it all now, all the abuse. No, i don't believe in hell after this life anymore, I lived a literal hell here on earth for five decades. I finally was truly reborn-when i escaped the sickness of all this hidden abuse at the hands of those i was entrusted to as a child and as a wife. There's so many suffering and trapped just as i was and as Tia was. Thankfully we got out.
Tia’s evolution is one of the most amazing transformative changes I’ve seen. She seems so happy and by the end of the interview, I felt so incredibly happy for her. She has an amazing way of bringing you into her story, completely invested in her well being and happiness. Great interview.
Holy moly! Shalise! Coming back from maternity leave with a *BANG*! These two most recent guests and interviews are setting a pretty high bar!
I found Tia on tik tok and I appreciate her so so much. This is the world I left after 3 ridiculous years inside of the IFB and IBLP culture. She had helped me process so much of it and I'm very grateful to you Tia. You are vocal, and powerful, and thank you for sharing your story.
So great to see Tia on Cults to Consciousness! Welcome and thanks! Thanks Shelise & Jonathan
Wow. That really got me when you said about being in a cult. I was raised in fundamentalism as well. This felt really validating. Thanks ❤
What a hero! I got chills especially when she talks about her healing journey.
This is an exceptional episode!!!
Another view into ' domestic abuse '. It's terrifying and hopeful to see/ realize how widespread religions/ cults are being examined and called out.
For me the alpha & omega is Human Freedom was always your birthright!
Brilliant show. Wish I had heard this 30 years ago!
I was on the edge of my seat during this entire podcast! Tia you are a true hero and my inspiration! I am so impressed by you taking back your power and finding strength and happiness. I cannot wait to read your book! Shelise, thank you for another great podcast. You are both incredible women!
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The whole “Trad wife” thing right now feels like this.
She was excellent- one of the best I've ever heard. Thank you for bringing us all of these stories. So many thoughts I have, so much to unpack. But for now, I just need to say thank you. ❤
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This is so profound!! I grew up in DV and religion totally intertwined. You are so correct in saying you have to accept that this happened. That is the biggest thing I have trouble with. Like, I want to go back and fix it even though I was the child. I was raised to believe that I was supposed to take care of my parents. This is my biggest struggle. I’m definitely getting the book.
Also, in listening to her and how patriarchy is blended in to domestic abuse is so eye-opening for me. I left after my neck was fractured by my adoptive father. After I stood up to my adopted brother who told me how women should behave. When we were at the hospital with my fractured neck, my adoptive father told me he had to do it because I couldn’t become like the men.
What is DV?
Thank you, Tia for acknowledging that your husband wasn't all there and how the Quiverful Movement and organized religion in general pretty much stunts and enables.
Also, why are all of the kids have names that start with J? Is it because Michele was supposed to name her kids a J name? She couldn't name her kids with a name that started with the same letter as her. I am not sure if anyone has noticed this but Josh Duggar named his kids an M name. Was that his way of honoring Michele?
Mothering and especially having babies that were somewhat atypical and “needy” saved me from going too far into IBLP, evangelicism, and patriarchy. But because of having been exposed to all of that, I developed radar that kept me from getting sucked in. I avoided churches, women, homeschooling groups that were promoting this. I knew the lingo. I am so grateful to my children.
Such a powerful person and story. I grew up in the Bible Belt, surrounded by fundamentalist and patriarchal ideas. I didn’t realize how much it had affected me (and how much I was still letting it all rule my life) until I was well into my 20’s, researching high control groups.
This interview was hard to watch at times because it hit so close to home, but it was incredible. ❤
So Happy to see you all back! The baby is adorable!!!
I’m so excited about this interview. I follow her on Instagram. She talks about cults but I have never heard her story in detail.
I am barely 10 minutes in and I feel like you are describing how I grew up and what the expectations were for me as the eldest daughter.
Going to take my time with this episode! Its going to be eye opening for sure! Snuggle blanket and mug of tea for comfort.
Excellent chat! How very brave and inspiring you are, Tia. And, as always, Shelise, you are a brilliant interviewer!
(And congrats on the new babba... 💟 from South Africa.)
Thank you! ❤️❤️❤️
I'm a Christian by choice and wanted to mention how I love to listen to all the survivors stories also in order to stay aware for red flags for myself and others. Thank you so much for the podcast and all your hard work!
This was an incredible story. If you didn’t know this was true you would think it was a dystopian novel. This woman has so much strength, determination and hope. I’m humbled by this WOMAN, and yes the caps are intentional.
Thank you so much for these interviews Shelise your approach and style is so soothing and comforting while getting to the heart of their stories 💜💜
Thank you! ☺️
Oh wow! Another amazing "lindalisten"! Thank you for this fantastic interview. I am looking forward to reading Tia's books ❤
I'm horrified but super happy for her that this is over
Wow! That's such a good point!!! Even if you see healthy examples around you, not having the verbage to express those similar needs and boundaries for yourself really places you at risk!
I’m sorry for those who had a horrible experience in SBC.
I was raised attending as a member of the second largest SBC in the convention, and it was NOTHING LIKE ANYTHING THESE PEOPLE DESCRIBE.
Then again, I’m in Texas, we are college educated (and encouraged to think for ourselves!!!), and encouraged in independence.
The SBC has its absolutely horrifying issues, but so does every other institution involving humans. We're a wreck. (We're also amazing, but we're a wreck.) The SBC and other kinds of evangelicalism can be absolutely beautiful when we're awake and aware and we're encouraged to ask questions. My own church community was lovely and loving; I *_still_* overcorrected into over-obedience and shutting off my own instincts because of the message and my own people pleasing nature. (Thank God for therapy. Codependency is no damn joke.) Anyway, just agreeing that you can have a wonderful experience in SBC and sharing why some of us don't do well after a childhood in evangelicalism. Thank you for sharing your experience. 💕
I so agree! I'm in Texas too and I have never seen any of this in a SBC church. In fact, that's why I attend a SBC church. I grew up in an independent church and it seemed so easy for independent churches to get off on the wrong path and become cult-like.
Wow! What a powerful interview. I am so thankful for this woman's voice. I was always against the patriarchy and religious right in politics, I understood the danger but she helped me to realize how pervasive it is. We need every voice to be out. Thank you so much for your work. It is so important
So many words but nothing to say. This spoke to my heart and felt so validating. ♥️ thank you for doing what you do!
I'm writing this before hearing anything but the intro and have a question about the deep dive you plan on getting into with regard to family cults.
I'm a survivor of coercive control in the home, many abuses were enacted underneath the umbrella of domination, fear and isolation created in the home by one main abuser. Everyone thought my family was so cool, because my parents played music with local bands, supported arts culture in community and are talented artists.
I feel that being part of a wholesome, but subcultural community helped my parents hide the oddness of things by being known for being kooky artists.
I'd love to get on a list of people you interview and I'm part of a large community of survivors who need to talk also.
There was no "train up the child" in my home and there was a lot of hate on the patriarchy, but then we lived in a really sick matriarchy, instead. The patterns are similar and I want to get the word out on that so people feel more comfortable helping kids flee homes like mine. Abusers aren't smart. They get away with the things they do because the pattern already exists and any creativity required is just on cloak and camouflage.
Tia- you are so clear and intelligent. I am so happy you broke free of the cult and listened to your intuition. You were meant to study and learn and grow. That was a great interview. I can’t wait to read your book.
Still watching but I had to pause and come down here to comment that when Shelise said Tia's ex-husband told Tia to call him "my lord" I blurted out loud (and loudly) "what the F***?!"
Yep 😬 I did the same when I read it in her book.
Thank you Tia and Shelise. My story/testimony is one of the real God healing my soul, marriage (husband's soul) from what we had both inherited from controlling mothers (in different ways). Psalm 31 v7: You saw my affliction and knew the anguish of my soul. The real Lord is always with us even when we feel deserted. Never throw the baby out with the bathwater - learn why the bathwater is why it is, and your faith becomes stronger, even in the darkest night. I couldn't believe God could do this for me, but I was so wrong 🥰😇🥰