Dawn Gate - The Game that Solved Toxicity - 2
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- Опубликовано: 9 ноя 2022
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• Dawn Gate - The Game t... - Part 1
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"when was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA" Holy fuck. You're so right.
Is apologizing online even allowed? I mean - doesn't that conflict with some human rights? ;D
When was the last time you saw someone apologizing online? Why should you see someone apologizing online? Why do you feel that you deserve an apology?
I said 'sorry I fucked that' in a lol game and after literally like 5 chill lines after. Got chat warning contested it and cause i dropped the f bomb even against me the chat warning was valid
@@mysongsbob5681 Yeah that does suck. Youd think they could just have a chat filter if it was over text.
@@max7971people like you are the reason mobas are toxic hellholes.
If you aren't a dick people will like you. If you are a dick you become that guy nobody likes. That's everybody on mobas, because of that self-centered "I don't _owe_ you anything" mindset you seem to think is acceptable.
I've seen plenty of people apologizing online. _Because all parties involved are humans._ The anonymity of the internet is not an excuse, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.
People fail to understand this.
The reason League of Legends is so toxic is because you can buy a new botted level 30 ranked-ready account for literally $1.00.
Absolutely true.
Dawn Gate made this process harder because botting without interaction didn't give you enough EXP to progress to 30 in any meaningful amount of time. This meant that account sellers needed to run the bots for longer and it cut into their overall pay over time. Better system than league by far.
That’s my side hustle 😈
Well due to toxicity people getting better ranks
And even moderately toxic people don't really get permabanned. You have to be really really awful to get banned for toxicity.
wrong the reason people are so toxic are because my teammates are dogshit🤓🤓
Oh man, Dawngate. Getting that Divine Gift at the end was such a feeling of power.
It was genuinely the most fun I ever had in a MOBA. And of course EA didn't even let it get through beta OR allow fans to keep it alive. Actually disgusting.
still remember the first time I got a new character out of one of those, loved that game then EA murdered it before it even had a chance to get going
@@RabidDogma is it possible that more people hated it than loved it?
@@Neselman21 Very unlikely. Gamers want to have fun. Trust each other. Play together. Toxicity tends to bring the worst out of people and lead to loneliness and paranoia as you cant trust anyone. Watched that multiple times on all different kinds of Servers. When the mods are overwhelmed by toxicity and give up all the good players leave or minimise their interaction with other players. The resulting playerbase is destructive against new players and harms the game long term as it only attracts even more toxic players
Design defines player interaction.
We are all products of our environment in games and in reality
Exactly! That's why games like DRG are so surprising wholesome when you've been playing fps games like cod your whole life
Only for those who care. Anyone who doesn't just barge in and say/do what they want. Happens everywhere in life.
Environment attracts and repels certain types of people, too. There are plenty of good people who don't get transformed by game design into jerks. If game design "makes" you a jerk, you already wanted to be one.
@@TuhljinTampergaugeIt's not about being a jerk. For example. Imagine you can enter a certain activity once a week and only once a week. Game progression is designed in a way that if you fail it you significantly fall behind for the next 5 weeks. And this activity allows only a limited amount of players in at once. Then if all players have a boost from previous weeks they can skip portions of mechanics and make finishing activity way easier. You can absolutely bet that people would form closed groups and allow no new players to join, unless they cleared it multiple times and have an active boosts. People who clear it every week may or may not act as an elitist jerks, people who get regected may or may not despise clearing group. But either way it breeds division and toxicity. If you scale down some elements of design community problems may scale down with them over time. But amount of stoic good people can not change the whole game community, a lot of gamers will silently avoid drama and just prioritise their fun (or a small amount of time to relax after a stressful day) over somebody else's desire to play/engage. That's why it's on game designers to avoid negative engagement instruments like lockouts and designed balancement issues and griefing mechanics.
I apologized to someone after an M+, explained that it has been a hell of a week and I'd just lost my dad to suicide and took it out on them without thinking. Ended up grouping with them a few times over the next few months and they always asked how I was that day
Damn that’s wholesome, so sorry about your dad though man.
Felix that you?
I hope you’re doing much better these days. You deserve it for being self-aware and able to open up like that.
How you doing today?
I'm sorry for your lost buddy
In my 4+ years of playing League, I’ve never seen anyone apologize. I audibly gasped when I heard someone apologized in a MOBA 😂
I played since season 1 until literally this year. I never seen anyone apologize, they're more likely to run it down than apologize or even play. I'm too damn old to deal with it, anymore.
Saw someone apologize once in like 11 years.
He flamed me for not following him to a stupid dragon call, which i called him out on. He was typing to me later for not ashe hawking a dragon so he could steal with smite so my friend started bashing him for it, but I typed "no hes right its fine". Communication was 10x better after that and after making a massive comeback he was like "mb for the flame bro"
Only apology I've ever seen in league to this day.
I started in S1 and ended in S4. A few people apologize, it wasn't massively rare
now on my NA smurf, everyone behaves like an absolute bellend, and Gold players on NA were Bronze players on EUW
It's so bizarre how EUW and NA differ. doubt you get many apologies there.
I see apologies all the time but I guess I mostly play draft not ranked
i rarely flame anyone but i have added people after the game just to apologize for being harsh 🙈🙈🙈
Reminds me a bit of older MMOs, where community mattered more, and your reputation followed you. By no means perfect, but you found it chilled a lot of people out, and made them want to work together because there was a hit to your ability to progress if everyone hated you.
WoW Before the Servers became essentially pointless.
Used to be huge server communities and reputations. People knew everybody, especially on the smaller servers. Didn't matter which side you were on.
And then there were the agents of chaos who actually did everything in their power to grief everyone they met, but because they were relatively rare and so committed to their craft it felt like a genuine part of the roleplaying experience. Dudes were just the villains of the story and did it better than any NPC ever could.
@@Nuvizzle Griefer on Ursin was basically legendary for being a KOS Undead Rogue. If it was red, it was dead, and he'd often do it to lure out other high level Alliance players for him to fight.
Brought about some legendary open World PvP that did, complete with scout reports on his last known where abouts.
Who didn't play MMORPGs before WoW doesn't know what a nice and chilled community is.
WoW ruined that for everyone.
Definitely feel this. Everquest was like that. If you were a jerk then everyone on the server knew, or at least your level cohort, and it would become impossible to group/level/raid.
I apologized once in LoL for a failed engage and got 3 people piling on me for fucking up. All that taught me was to turn off chat. Which then drove me away from competitive multiplayer games for years. People are exhausting.
*shitty ppl are exhausting
This is one reason I only play single player games.
I would play with you
I always found doubling down on the apology worked well. So after you say “MB that didn’t work” and they pile on you continue with “Yeah absolutely dog**** of me, just report me at the end guys, I deserve it”. Guaranteed they stop. Nobody wants to listen to the depressive self abuse, and the people looking for an argument aren’t getting their fix.
@@vectoralphaSecbeing in my 40s I never got into multiplayer games. And I hate the trend towards online multiplayer.
I've think I played GTA online once in its early days and l lasted about ten mins. Also few years before that I tried a single game for FIFA online. Just some kid screaming at me.
My kids in the other hand, the lads play FIFA online almost 100% and my daughter is in was on MC servers, and then moved over to Roblox, she has meant some good longtime friends. And run into the odd weirdo.
The one time I turned a toxic situation around in League, it was with a team that was super angry at each other because our first game went badly, saying some really heinous shit.
So I told them to put up or shut up. Convinced all four of my angry, arguing teammates to queue up one more time, all in the same roles, same champs, and see what happens. "If the loss REALLY wasn't your fault, then you'll have no problem spending 20 minutes and proving it."
We had a hard-fought 35 minute victory. By the 20 minute mark, everyone was on the same side. No arguing, no yelling, no mean comments when someone died or made a mistake. Just callouts, compliments and even some banter.
We ended up queuing up together a few more times after that. Last time I heard from them, two of them had become good friends and were actually planning to room together at the same college.
I still think about it sometimes and feel proud of myself.
As an ex Overwatch player they messed up more than just player power when it came to endorsements. Even if you did great it was so easy to forget to endorse because you would have to pull up the tab to endorse between queue which is when most people afk. There were so many times I realized i forgot to endorse a support or just a player I thought derived it. Also the rewards just sucked even in the higher tiers it never felt rewarding to hit such a thing let alone if you weren't an E-girl or popular streaming tier 5 would derank to fast to maintain for a meaningful amount of time.
The deranking was brutal and in ow2 you couldn't endorse everyone usually people did the support and tank never dps. My dps was level 1 endorsement my support was 4
Should have made it so that voting for someone is worth 1 point aswell
Yeah playing overwatch is the equivalent of playing league of legends, toxic, sweaty no matter what gamemode you play quickplay being the sweatiest mode, and a lot of ppl suffering from the dunning kruger effect, plus it's free so little kids are playing too which is fine until they start acting like that as well
Also people often endorse based on how well you play. So you can be the nicest person in the world, but you're gonna get reported rather than endorsed if you had a bad game. Toxic people use endorsements in a toxic way.
Rein Main here, knowing that you've positively influenced someone enough to endorse you at all is it's own reward
THE DAWNGATE HAS OPENED. I miss this game so bad.
🥹🥹
The first MOBA that not only took good gameplay into consideration, but also the story.
I loved every update to the ongoing comic
I apologize all the time in aram. Usually a “sorry I’m high”
That was me for a while in cod lmao but after a while I just muted everyone, tho idk if that’d work as well in a moba
im high all the time, and only when im super baked i say sorry in advance, i wont remember later
Yo I just don’t care as a result, I’m here for a good time not to pad someone else’s sweaty stats
That's usually not an excuse when the majority of aram players are also either high or drunk lol
Don't be high in ranked games please. Ni one wants a druggie on their comp team
I saw it happen once in Smite, dude had a stroll of bad luck with match after match after match, day in, day out, of absolute garbage. He was fed up, he was cranky, he insulted us simply for not having the ability of foresight. We lost the match and he apologized cause the match really didn't go that bad, it was an even match. We could have reported him, but we didn't, he reflected on his behavior and thought "man i was a prick", he even said so. He apologized and that's it, and apology goes a long way. If we did report him, he would have gotten a 2 week suspension.
However, this was one time, never have i seen anyone apologize ever again.
It was really sad the year that almost all online games stopped moderating. I remember even League of Legends had a tribunal thing where if you had reported enough people who were toxic then riot would give you a title basically saying you were a tribunal person. And I remember getting on there and I would read tons of things to vote on they let you see chat logs and everything and you could vote whether or not someone should get a temp ban or a perma ban. That only lasted a few months and they took it all down.
We live in an automated hell today.
If I remember correctly, around 90% of the people that did tribunal would just randomly click ban or forgive and not read anything in order to get the reward that was tied to it faster.
The results from the tribunal was basically useless and RNG if people would actually get banned.
This could have been easily solved if people were tricked into taking test tribunals where it's obvious if a ban is necessary or not, and if their answer is wrong then it means that person is incompetent or just not reading the chat log. And these tests could be intermittently done so that they can remove players from tribunals if theh ever start just not reading the chat. Trivial fix but no one implemented it.
Tribunal didn't work out because they offered rewards for doing it and people would just run through all their tribunal cases and click the punish button without reading what happened.
Yes Riot could've mitigated this and done things better, but this is Riot we're talking about. They tried the Tribunal because it seemed like the easiest solution that required the least work on their part, the moment it was obvious it wasn't working they dropped it like they usually do.
i was in the 10% i really enjoyed the tribunal stuff, one shit part was it didn't keep the end lobby chat if I remember right. @@DaveUnknown
We really need more developers like him..
Finally someone understands how a community is a big part of a game. And it needs to be taken care of.
New games rather gifts toxic people, not punishing them.
It's not about developers, it's that the structure of a lot of gaming companies prevents the developers from making better games
I was one of the QA Testers on Dawngate. That game was the worst snowballing MOBA the developers could make and refused to listen to any feedback from the QA team. It did have a "nice" community though.
"The important part, and the feature they missed, is you had to tie player power to not being a jerk."
_>Looks around at our economic system_
Muh kapitalizum.
@@Dharengowhy does this have the same energy as "muh fuckin paaaanca-"
@@Dharengo capitalism is evil
People generally suck. The system just brings that out of people. If the system assumes we suck, and forces us to compete to suck less, you end up with less suck.
The downside is that if no one likes you, you won't progress in the game. The game then turns into politics.
I think this is a vastly underappreciated aspect of competitive games. Studies have proven that people can perform better, and stay in flow states for longer with cooperative and positive teammates. So putting in a system that would diminish toxic people's progress in competitive climb, would legitimately raise the skill ceiling of online multiplayer games.
This what I think the next big step in competitive gaming that we need to take.
ok but the ranked climb is supposed to be based on skill level, winning and losing. If you let anything else affect rating, you'll have inflated/deflated ratings, players won't trust the ladder because of that, and worst of all, it could also affect matchmakings ability to create balanced matches.
@@3eve0nthink pick up basketball, and trash talk. It’s popular and it works. It makes people win or lose bc it’s insufferable. Do you really want that?
@@Onlyg0d you know what's more insufferable? Having a teammate that's only at your rating because they're nice, so they have no idea what they're doing and are completely useless to the team to the point you might as well be playing down a person the whole time.
This system is great when applied to basically anything but a ranked ladder, but when put into that context specifically, this is the sort of scenario it creates. Sorry mate, but I'll take balanced matches over people maybe being a little less toxic any day of the week.
@@3eve0n I assumed you wouldn’t get promoted for being nice. I just assumed you’d get banned for being a jerk. Would you at least agree with that being a good idea?
@@Onlyg0d uh yeah of course that's a good idea it's literally the standard.
Oh my god thank you so much. This is the first channel that actually puts links for the other parts. Thank you
I saw someone apologize in a moba once , he told me "im sorry ... you were ever born" real heartwarming stuff
Just started playing iracing and it’s basically the same system. The only way to rank up is to be a safe driver so it’s really common to see people apologize after doing something dumb so they don’t get reported for intentionally causing a wreck.
This, exactly. Iracing and other sims are trying to go that path, which is waaaaaaay less toxic than other "competitive" online games. Enjoy the drive brother
this idea is actually genuis
To an extent.... And then you realize that playing with friends crippled your progression. Or maybe you just don't want to be extra talkative that day.
It's not a bad idea, but it's kinda weird to punish people for playing with their friends
Implemented Psychology 101, determine what you want from the person, engineer the system back from that. I learned this in communication class, the final was "get someone to do something during a presentation." My presentation was as a pretend gumball machine salesman, during my "pitch" I had a gumball machine on stage and invited everyone to use it, while I handed out quarters. Most everyone went up to the machine, and I basically bought an A on my final for about 7 dollars.
@@JACpotatos I assure you, you didn't have to be talkative. People were happy to honor you after the game as long as you weren't a jerk. It basically worked the opposite of how honoring works in League, instead of only honoring if you thought someone particularly deserved it you simply didn't honor someone you didn't think deserved it.
@@Nuvizzle lmao, literally a participation trophy. No wonder the game failed.
@@GrugTheJust im glad you learned something because that sounds like the easiest final ive ever heard of.
I think one of the best online experiences you can have is in Deep Rock Galactic.
Omg I’ve been listening to your shorts for a while now and it finally hit me. Your voice is just a deeper version of Alan Alda. Hell yeah
he does have a similar pacing to his voice doesnt he
I was wrong about something yesterday. I apologized and my carry was completely understanding. Good game.
Man I cant stop watching this guy
This is legitimately a beautiful way to set it up and I love it
As a Counter-Strike connoisseur, i must say that I do enjoy a bit of friendly banter in the team chat
I wish more games did this. Features like this make me want to seek out games and play them.
Yeah punishing Good players because you happen to not like them while they are in your game.
@@thekodawolfgaming"because you happen to not like them"
Dude that's the whole point of toxic people, they are objectively UNLIKABLE, sometimes on purpose, and their BS in chat affects other players.
It literally doesn't matter how good they play, if they can't stop themselves from being аsshоlеs there has to be punishment for it.
@@tr4ktr4k45 listen if you don’t have the spine to have people insult you competitively playing games may not be for you that includes casually playing a competitive game. It’s getting to the point that even in the new CoD people are getting banned for calling people morons. But there’s an awesome fix for the people who don’t like being called names or get insults for not playing well, most games come with a mute all but friends and party feature just turn that on.
@@thekodawolfgaming damn ppl really out here searching for excuses to just straight up be a bad person huh
@@IvyDoesShenanigans someone has a bad time and rages at their team. You don’t know them people have hard days people play to escape that game may be what turns their night around so why report them if you can’t tell if it’s hate or just frustration.
Just because I like to poke at the seams, I'll say this:
Losing in ranked matches (if you don't care about your rank too much, that is) - gives you easier opponents. Therefore gives you a sense of power.
So, contrary happens. Being a jerk, afking, losing on purpose - gives you power.
Can that be fixed? Probably not.
Unless you like, actually do tie your power to your 'not being a jerk'. Huh. I guess the title doesn't lie.
Agreed, but this system solves even that. Because there's fewer people in ranked, due to the grind, and the fact that the people in ranked are disinclined to get banned or reported, people intentionally losing would get caught a lot faster, and get banned a lot faster.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 >people are disciplined to be banned or reported
The brave new world
Ah yes. Limiting player count is a perfect solution.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 Meaning rank fails to function.
I missed DawnGate so much. It was such a fun after 2 years of league
That reminds me of Sidereal Confluence, my favorite board game. It fixes a lot of the problems with trading and negotiation games by rewarding even and mutually beneficial trades between players. Usually, the winning player isn't the one who got more out of each trade, but the one who did the most mutually beneficial trades.
Instead riot removes any form of communication so players eat up their frustration and let it out in gameplay since that doesnt get punished anyway. This year i was 10 times more toxic gameplay wise, because simply chatting got me flagged somehow (most "offensive" was "did drake kill you?" or sth like that). Since they also refuse to balance their game in a healthy manner i finally was able to uninstall and ive never been happier all my life (ive played the game since i was 9 lel)
Your comment makes me think that played for 4 years
Exactly. Allow people to cuss each other out. Get over yourself. If you can’t cope with someone calling you a f f n f a m r pos, go read a book
@@mooted5513if you can't play video games without being a cussy lil baby towards your teammates, maybe you're the mf who should read a book lmao
@@johan4989 Yeah.. but then I can’t ask you to stop being a massive f
So, the real question, how old are you? The 9 years old... lel.. has me spinning. Did you pick up the game a month ago, or 8 years ago? Genuinely confused.
I just found this channel today and I already love it
Dawngate was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had! Just reading the title got me all nostalgic and sad that the game was gutted 😢
Dawngate was the greatest game that never got to happen. Everything about that game felt awesome.
I find it funny how nice some people can be in EFT and it is not because they gain anything from being nice. It is because they know what the struggle for new players is like and have sympathy for the newbs.
Now I know how I got Rank 1 in Dawngate
-ArcTerra
Dawn Gate was such a good game. The mechanics, the lore, the itemization, the characters were all so good. Frankly I'm still not over it, and I don't think I will ever be.
It touched on actual mature subjects and didn't oversimplify them.
Daniel Suarez explored this idea in his 2006 books Daemon and Freedom. Great reads!
Because false pleasantries and two faced personalities are so nice to deal with.
Absolutely agree. I can’t stand ffxiv people, I’ll take bluntness over passive-aggressive bickering any day of the week.
I'd rather deal with fake politeness over honest rudeness, they are not people who you are gonna be part of your life, so who cares if they are being fake?
I want to play a game not marry them haha. Politeness with stranger is basic social behavior.
@@everlastiny so you'd rather have a guy trolling and being nice in chat than a guy carrying your ass and flaming you every time you make a mistake?
Fake nice is much better than genuine asshole.
I was once toxic to someone and then apologized i was just frustrated.
You can tell most the players never played organized team sports. In actual sports you up your game when a homie is having a bad game and he will do the same. In video games everyone acts like theyre always perfect theyignore their mistakes.
In ow2 there was almost always something i could have done in a team fight.
Now injust play path of exile, minecraft, and Crusader Kings 3 though indont even mess with other games everything is sooo toxic its not even worth it
I burst out laughing at the statement, "When Was the last time you saw someone apologized in a MOBA?"
'Fear will keep them in line' - Governor Thorkin
My friends and I still talk about how good that game was all the time. Wish it never got shut down cause they did everything right.
When being matched with a bad player and having to play with them effects you more than being a dick to that player, enough people will be shitheads.
“When was the last time you saw someone apologise in a MOBA”
Never
I actually remember talking to a guy on league once. They kept flaming me for being a bad jungle and I kept flaming them for blaming me on their lost lane. Eventually I muted and told them Id talk to them post game and explain why they were wrong. Game finishes and we lost, I sent them a friend request afterwards and asked if they wanted to discuss the situation. After a lot of toxic back and forth we both ended up admitting our mistake, apologized and even became friends since we realized that the other person wasnt actually that bad of a guy.
Wish more ranked games would implement this.
People apologize in MOBAs?? WTF?
Honestly, the last time I heard someone apologise, I was playing with a really passionate Russian dude, me and my best friend didn’t take the toxicity too seriously bc it was a lot of ‘your mum is x’ so I just started telling back saying ‘ITS WINNABLE, WERE A TEAM BRO, WE GOT THIS’ full screaming into my microphone, about 15 minutes later we started making a full comeback and we just hear this Russian dude sheepishly like “I… I’m sorry for what I said about your mother…” and I was just “ITS ALL GOOD BRO, WE’RE A TEAM, RIDE OR DIE HOMIE!” And he just perked right up and started yelling and being passionate again.
Honestly my most wholesome moba experience ever
Your genius of gaming psychology will alter the world as we know it! And for the better.
Much love to you and yours my friend.
Dawn Gate was shuttered before launch, so the notion that some "be nice" system was going to actually work is completely conjectural.
Ah, that is useful context, thank you for sharing!
Yes, but it shut down before launch because it's parent company was EA who were disappointed it didn't make League level money in early access.
Yeah, I don't see how this system wouldn't just be gamed by all the players, they would all have as secret agreement to always give everyone else a positive vote, then everyone gets power and the whole system becomes meaningless.
@@Arjay404Maybe, maybe it devolves into a griefing engine. Without empirical evidence, I think it's just self-indulgent to pretend that you've "solved" toxicity.
@@DatsVatSheSaid The system stifled progression because it tied it to other peoples decisions rather than gameplay.
Openly toxic behavior is preferable to soft inting. At least I can mentally check out of the game if someone admits they'll run it down unlike someone pretending to have a bad game that isn't reportable
Also block their communication.
Anti doom scrolling Thor saved me earlier today 1:06 am. Thank you!
This also gets rid of smurf accounts so this is THE solution to every problem we have in gaming
Except now you're actively disincentivized to play with friends.
That's a fair point
Not really? Why could you not play with friends?
@@asonofliberty3662it is a fair point since you cannot be voted on by your friend(s).
@@asonofliberty3662it's not that you couldn't, but if player power/progression is tied to kudos, if you want to not be penalized and level at a glacial pace, you have to play solo queue for even the opportunity to level faster. A five stack that always plays together progresses at the same rate as the most toxic player alive.
You usually get party bonuses in these games AND idk what psychopath can tell their friend "i don't want to play with you, i want my good person bonus"
Social credit score in games sounds fun.
Except it’s not the game executives punishing you, and technically, you’re not even being punished, just if other players like you, they can make your progress faster. So this is nothing like a social credit system.
This applies to most competitive game. I was highest rank in csgo and valorant back in the day and most games were just good vibes. It's only in the lower ranks that people are toxic.
On overwatch, they could do that feature for new nice players (help them unlock characters quicker/ranked quicker)
It does not improve player power, but it gives you more content you actually car about (it's the core of the game)
I would not want to be forced to be a good person just so i can play the game optimally
"I don't want to play a game where I can't be toxic to others" sounds like other players would be better off without you then
Why do you want to be toxic to other players?
In LoL and in WoW there are those player agreements that you click through when you start, right? Something about You oblige to be a good teammate, always play to win.
And I know myself. I wouldn't be playing to win every single match. Especially those when it's 0-10, we are losing every single interaction, and 'oh my god, just end this already, why are 2 people not pressing Yes to surrender? We could have saved 15 minutes of life for 10 people in so obviously lost match'
So yeah, I don't play those games. Failed at the 'tos' stage.
Well, it seems people do not want you playing with them either.
@@rompevuevitos222 🤓
Id rather people be toxic honestly than fake it. Then when you do find people who are positive its because thats who they are as a person
The problem with that is that it is so _trivial_ to be as toxic as you want to be when you are completely anonymous, which, in this world of retributive justice being the norm, *IS ALL THE TIME* for _far_ too many people. On the other hand, consistently _having_ to be virtuous in a virtual world to get ahead and then finding out how rewarding that can be sets up unconscious mental habits which can then leak into real world choices.
@@KeithOlsonI want to have friends who don't need to be threatened or bribed into being a kind person.
If you have to be nice after a while you either are unable to be it or you get used to being nice. Either way you'll only find truly nice people
@@trustme1075 "I want to have friends who don't need to be threatened or bribed into being a kind person."
I hear you. Sadly, toxic behaviour is rewarded all too often, so many people learn to be even more toxic online than they normally would be and end up addicted to the popularity their bad behaviour grants them. At the very least, a game with 'enlightened self-interest' as a mechanism balances that tragic hangup to some extent and--hopefully--helps them learn to be a better person.
In the end, finding friends is largely watching out for those who are willing to sacrifice for your sake without expecting anything in return and then watching over them the same way. You can do that in pretty much _any_ environment, whether toxic *or* healthy.
last time someone apologized in a moba was when he apologized to my mother for having to give birth to me 😂
Okay, he got me with that last statement...
No no no. It doesn't tie player power to not being a jerk. It ties player power specifically to getting people to giving you a thumbs up. So you don't end up with no jerks, you end up with fake nice people. Different thing.
Fake nice people is better than toxic people when you're in an environnement of blind match making, it's not like they are your coworkers that you mingle with everyday.
And just saying , "fake it until you make it" is a real thing, by faking being nice for months and months it ends up becoming a habit and your first reflex is to be nice when confronted in similar situations, except for complete sociopaths of course.
@@benjaminsorrentino8917 I've never understood why people care about that when you can block and mute people. Also this system punishes people like me as well who don't want to interact with anybody at all. I want to play a game not interact with strangers, but in that game I would have to suck people's cocks just to level up at a reasonable pace.
Also fake nice people are never better than an honest interaction in my view. Look at this way, youre playing a match with someone and you get on with them, you think you've made a friend, you add that person, turns out they were just pretending to be nice so they can level up.
I will always prefer real assholes to fake friends.
Fake nice turns into real nice really fast if enough people do it.
@@robotsix6268 No it doesn't lol. What makes you think that? It turns people into good actors, liars and manipulators real fast.
The moment there's no longer an incentive to pretend to be nice, the act drops. Its a crash course on machiavellian behaviour.
@@highestsettings dépends on the person I believe. Some people behave in a toxic way because they were fostered in such an environment and doesn't realize there are other possibilities. If they stay in a more positive environment for long enough, they may change their outlook on how to behave.
And just saying, if you're saying that fake nice doesn't build a community with livable conditions, not saying that it's a *good* or *healthy* community, I'm just saying it's *proper to live through*, then you should disagree with how our society is built.
There are tons of "fake nice" people that behave in a non-threatening way because of the fear of the law retribution. Without laws, we wouldn't even be able to play game because there would be marauders everywhere trying to pillage your goods and rape your loved ones.
I may take the extreme as an example, but give it a few decades and we would eventually fall into such a state of anarchy. People aren't good. They are forced to be good for fear of consequences. So why does a system that force you to be good not for fear of consequences, but for the promise of rewards, would be such a bad thing? It's a bit healthier I'd say.
Isn't the idea of an RPG that you can RP as an ass
None of these are RPGs, and using RP as an excuse does not fly for obvious reasons.
That only ever works in HRP scenarios, if anything.
This in reference to multiplayer games with other people, which often gets pretty toxic.
Oh wow. You witnessed something rare and special my man.
Bro we need this in so many games x')
All this really needs is someone to abuse the system for it to tumble down. The other guy doesn't even need to be rude: just win a roll on something someone really wants and believes they're really entitled to, and suddenly everyone's rating everyone badly. No one plays. Game ends.
what is this supposed to mean? did you actually understand how dawn gate system supposed to be work?
There is no rating badly included. There are only good ratings and a single one already tremendously improves your power. It does not matter if in a party of 5 3 are toxic as long as you and another person are not toxic, the two nontoxics just upvote eachother and they will progress twice as fast as the toxic ones. The system is genius IF the intention was to have a great playerbase. Unfortunately, a toxic playerbase is the most willing to do microtransaction playerbase.
I'm not toxic or anything, but I love making edgy jokes. Whenever i am stacked it is super fun to make heinous jokes to my teammates that we all laugh at, that's just my humor. I would hate to play a game like this just to make a joke and get banned and have to play 30 games while being nice to play ranked again. There should be a switch kinda like cross play for lobby's with reporting and lobby's without reporting so I can be nice if I want or I can have fun in voice.
Yeah, being kind and considerate on the internet, what a downer! 😅
If you have to preface your statement with “Im not toxic, buuuuuuuuuut…” there is decent chance you are being toxic.
@@cleebe6905 I mean I am not toxic, i make jokes while playing games. I'm kind and considerate in every scenario other than playing games. Its isnt fun to be polite, it's fun to talk trash and I can recognize the difference between toxicity and jokes. There are mute buttons for a reason and sometimes if I'm playing bad or just trying to chill and get flamed I mute them.
Literally yelled wow when I heard you say the guy apologized
Wow censoring people and forcing them to fake being nice just so they can play a game is so fun
Yes, it is.
If you are toxic you should just be banned, but if they can at least be nice for a REWARD that works for me.
If you cannot treat people nicely, do not play online. Go to a psychologist with your anger issues.
@@rompevuevitos222 so you’d rather people take out their anger and hate irl where real people could be hurt then online where the only person that could be hurt is themselves.
@@doomslayer8025 what you do with your anger is your problem, an online video game is not your personal outlet, we are all here to have fun and enjoy the experience equally.
Again, take your anger issues to a psychologist.
Whats bs is games designers caring about players be nice or mean
Its my software after i buy it, there is a mute button, let people play how they want.
A game maker is not a moral judge
Except they are hosting the matches...
If i host a server, i am responsible for what i allow in it, and i PERSONALLY do not want to foster toxicity.
If people are incapable of treating others as human beings i would rather not have them spoiling the experience with players who do.
With that said, this is a REWARD, not gatekeeping. You are not required to be nice, so i do not get your point.
@rompevuevitos222 Yeah, if you rent a server, you run it like you want. Hence, the old " Hey, this a Christian server" line
But only private servers does that matter, im even cool with click here and swear and oath xyz if you want to play here....if it's a private server.
The old cs go server I played on would boot you if you didn't talk like a dinobot too many times in a row.
Im saying a systemic system where players are removed from game functions for a game a devs perceived "nice" desires. As im sure that's the ever changing nice where the current thing is important.
If the dev lowered your rank for speaking in a non (insert race or religion here) way, fewer people would applaud it
@@magustrigger9195 Except this isn't the case with Minecraft. The ban system is global for all servers.
If you get reported and banned, you can't even play on your own realms or private server.
@rompevuevitos222 that pretty evil, immoral even
Thought crime, and they steal your property.
Sad
@@magustrigger9195Which is why i always advocate to use craked MC.
Everyone working on the game is getting paid regardless. The only one loosing money is Microsoft which is a plus
As someone who tried to be polite online, i support this
Moral of the story, people are only good when they stand to lose something.
Tying player power to player kindness is genius.
I see a lot of wholesome people in dota 2.
Also. I really liked dawngate... Miss it
Dawngate was THE BEST! I miss it and Vuloc so much!
Dawngate has been my desktop for over a decade.
I don't even know what I just heard... Literally my brain can't comprehend someone apologizing in a multiplayer game, much less a moba. Why did I tear up and get angry and happy all at once? You short circuited my brain.
I play the MOBA battle royale "Eternal Return" and I've found that it's the only MOBA like structural game where the player base mostly isn't toxic (of course you will occasionally get a toxic player). Everyone in the game knows that the learning curve is huge so they encourage each other.
Something else that might be helping everyone not being toxic is the small playerbase.
Love these shorts
I've played League of Legends since I was a freshman in high school. That was over a decade ago. In that entire decade, only one time did someone apologize. It was a Jax player and it was a ranked game. I was as jungler, and he was flaming me because he kept dying in top lane. I was hard carrying and actually manage to win by split pushing and soloing the Nexus. You apologize only because that win got him into the next rank. He asked me to join him, I ignored him. I always ignored people when they acted like that, and this was before the mute function was invented
the first thought i was having "huh this sounds like overwatch vote system" and you are the one brought it up so i guess that's cool
Online Gaming made me forgot what apologies stand for
Dawngate was awesome! R.I.P.!
My response to so many of these videos is just “oh, so like Deep Rock Galactic”
Some old dayZ servers tried this with alterations to the hero/bandit system, where being good to people got you access to modern military equipment and gear, but the bandits were left with guerilla gear and had to actually hide from hero bases, and heroes got more points for taking out bandits.
But the system was almost always janked. You could become a hero by you and your buddy shooting eachother then patching the wound, or become a bandit taking someone out in self defense because the metrics weren't keeping track of conditions and only cared if you dealt a finishing blow or not. Probably could have solved it if the game registered the aggressor first by figuring out who shot at who in the beginning.
So even then, it didn't work out the way they intended, and you still had bandit squads fully armed with hero equipment.
Asheron's Call was another example. They tied massive chunks of the system to their mentor system.
As much as I love this idea. One of the best parts of OW is that everyone is at the same power level.
Psychology 101, day one: reward desirable behaviors, punish undesirable ones.
I can't remember the last time someone apologised to me in any multiplayer game.
"Whens the last time you saw someone die in a MOBA"😂
I love these shorts, but the graphics that come down from the top of the screen trick me into believing I got a notification every single time
Off topic but I just want to report that in OSRS, I met the best people and it’s still one of the sweetest groups of guys (and never ever once a single female) that I ever had the pleasure of playing video games with. Sometimes there was a single lone jerk but years of play and I had dozens of great moments of dudes looking out for each other and I always tried to give back the love. One time a guy was afk at abyssal demons and got a whip so I grabbed it and waited forever next to him so I could hand it to him. I got tons of whip drops but I only remember that one i was able to save from despawning so I could hand it back to the rightful owner. And I say that only to explain that I had others do things just as, if not more, generous for me so many times. The community deserves praise
dawngate was such an good game. wish they brought it back. along with the proper progression they had
I loved dawn gate I miss that game too this day
About two years ago, it was me, i was having a bad day and felt bad afterwards.
What happened to Dawngate still hurts my heart to this very day. Seeing Gigantic come back leaves me hopeful Dawngate can too, but until then...
I miss Dawn Gate so much 😭