Is The B58 Better Than The 2JZ?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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#Supra #PureFunction #2JZ #B58
If only people knew the details of the B58's later stages of development and how much Toyota/GR involvement there really was... 😉 3 years of joint development happened before the first B58 even hit the streets in the 3 series, 7 years of development before the revision in the Z4 and Supra.
"BuT iT's JuST a ReBaDGed Z4" lmao
As if BMW really needed Toyotas help to make great engines... Come one dude... S54, S14, S70, S85, S65.
Shut up You hardly finsihed your Supra. And havent made any new video's what do You know?
Albon you can’t change the fact none of the new “Supra” is from Toyota with respect to its base & foundation.
So Toyota put their spin on some things. Big deal. The entire heart & sole is from Germany.
Toyota basically asked BMW to copy their homework. And BMW said “just change it enough to make it look like your own”.
I don’t see anything wrong with the car itself, but to look at the history of the Supra, then call this new one a “Supra” is ridiculous in my opinion.
@damianw226 Sorry I cant agree with you there. I'm a die hard toyota fan and this is a great venture. I've owned MR2s, (motors built by Yamaha but nobody bitches) and I own a BMW 335XI. Since I've owned my 335 i've shelled out maybe 2-3k and I am making 450-500 whp reliably including the maintenance. People have one experience and they lose their minds. All engines have issues big and small. both the B58 and the 2JZ have their inherent problems. People shy away from doing anything BMW because like everything German its extremely over-engineered. You cant just drop a BMW motor and do a standalone. Even your beloved VW, Audi - plagued with check engine lights and issue with premature mechanical wear. Dont believe me? Look up a Volkswagen 4 digit code on any model and year. CXCB, CXCA they are constantly making revisions to their engines every other year. Again this is normal in the industry - nothing man made is bulletproof. Once you swallow that pill you can honestly start enjoying the modding process. Miles ahead is not a fact about it being ahead in any category - thats an opinion. I am in the Service Industry and this video made me laugh so hard. For starters fact check the video, it has one auxiliary water pump for the intake manifold water to air intercooler and a mechanical for the motor. Drop the motor to work on it because the belts are in the rear? Are you serious? This guy must be a "RUclips Certified Tech"... The question alone about the B58 being better than the 2JZ is null and void because its a revised motor not on any other car yet... Time will tell and once the aftermarket community catches up with this car (and they will) You'll see skinnies on the back of these running 9s in the 1/4 mile.
@@erik-7255 do you have a supra?
Give it 5+ years and see what the motor can do with new aftermarket tech...
So that we can praise BMW for allowing Toyota to use its engine? That's like saying stop rooting for the Charger, the Patriots are better.
@@sigmaprojects I mean the Patriots are but carry on with your nonsense lol.
"Give it 5 years" my ass. This engine has already been out for a while in other BMW vehicles and there has been nothing to show for it.
@@CallMeGutz 640whp on stock fuel system with a hot parts kit. First thing you find when you look up b58 hp record. The MK5 comes with a better fuel system then previous model BMWs so itll make even more easily now.
@@sigmaprojects I'ma Brady fan.. *shrug* I'ma 2JZ fan as well..
Honestly speaking, I say the 2JZ-GTE is better. But, that's more of a personal connection to the sound of it, and I actually like the 1JZ more than the 2JZ for that reason. The sounds, the emotion, all of it. You just can't get that as much in a non-japanese engine.
But, I LOVE BMW. They're great as a company, although I'm glad they did a joint venture with Toyota for enhanced reliability on this thing. Not to mention, the official Toyota instagram said they'll have a second, four-cylinder model that's actually easy to do 2JZ swaps for, as intended from the factory.
So long story short: It's a fine engine, I prefer the 2J out of my weebiness and reason for liking cars, but I respect the new supra.
P.S. BMW Supra jokes were never funny, nor clever. They're really annoying, and if you want to see a supra that looks like a BMW, compare the A70 to the 850CSi
lol dude stfu
@@SIRICKO no u
Fun fact: I'm pretty sure that the block was used in a diesel engine
The A70 was out before the 850csi
@@xiw3stsid3ix37 And the 850 was already in development (since 1981)BEFORE the MK3 A70 was released .
Car hasn’t been out for a year and suddenly everybody is an engineer...this is the fastest Stock Supra ever made
Too much I said? I think 2js is just more of a classic on the Supra, sometimes the classics don’t need to be changed
@@indreeesmo6103 well it was so get used to it
@@indreeesmo6103 Newsflash.
The Supra MK4 A80 was NOT the first to get the 2JZ. That was the Toyota Aristo.
probably the best video on the supra's b58 engine. I'm with you, i suport the new supra. Another key thing, despite having an Inline 6, the center of gravity is lower than a subaru brz which is already very low. Chassis more rigid than Lfa and the new differential is pretty smart. with all that, this new supra should be eating corners.
This was disproven actually by caranddriver
@@mileslumpkin9500 nothing a suspension kit can't fix
Good breakdown on the motors
Mod2Fame Vlog what’s up mod to lame
Mod2fame. I'm a huge fan bro! Keep up the good work
Glad that these videos are out. We need a real comparison not just random hate for the new car!
@@PureFunction you gave a fairly non-biased video. I say good job. Question tho, what are your thoughts on the b58 being an undersquared design?
N55 an N54 both have double vanos. I’ve never had an issue with vanos. Just clean the solenoids every 60k or so.
BMW-E90-HQ they do have a recall on vanos bolts coming loose or broken
@@99ekcouper yup. alberto big boost has had that problem with his for a long time, that and the crank pulley bolt.
That must be an n55 if he’s having crank hub issues. Pretty much if you change your oil in reasonable intervals vanos will be fine. If you go 15k like BMW says you deserve to have problems.
lol oil changes can fix anything on a car! it has nothing to do with oil changes budd, they overtorqued the bolts @ the factory.....
never had issues with the N55 either
I have a 2017 BMW M240i which has the B58 motor in it. It's a great motor, and I have a lot of fun (maybe too much fun) with my car. The car is still under warranty; so I don't want to make any mods to it.......yet. However, for everyday driving; you don't need to. The car has plenty of get up and go. It's quick and nimble and has a great sound. ALSO, something you didn't talk about is gas mileage. I believe the "real" Supra got something like 21 mpg. I took a road trip up the west coast with the car and was getting 35mpg. You get all that performance with great gas mileage (provided you aren't "racing" around town, then no engine can help you there). So, what people will be seeing is a car (Z4 and Supra) they can have a lot of fun driving everyday, gets good gas mileage, and has plenty of performance when you need it (aka - passing retarded drivers). AND has a little more power at its disposal to be able to do things like autocross and HPD. Personally, can't wait for Grand Tour (or some one else) do a side by side comparison. Probably won't see much of a difference, but will be cool to see. Also, will be interesting to see what modifications start to pop up for this engine.
Not to drive anyone away from this channel, but "Engineering Explained" goes into some good details about how the motor works (and compares it a bit to the N55). Definitely worth checking out.
what about reliability?
@@Rossski So far the engine has been reliable. I've only had it for a year and have done a few autocross events. Nothing has happened with the engine. Will see in the coming years. ;)
@@Rossski Back to internet son.
The N55 was a mistake. The N54 was better. BMW always improves there engines over time. Their I6s just seem to rum forever. I had a M50 e36 with 260k, amd i beat the shit out of it. Guy i sold it to blew the diff, but she still ran.
Well it a good engine the reason why people don't like it due to the fact they can make it like 2jz. Just wait for plastic intake wear out and see how it cost to replace but more people by then would just sell the car before. Good info, man.
You make a great point about the ECUs, a buddy of mine modified his 428i M sport with a chip and it gave him extra power without touching engine. He’s had the car for about two years and it still runs fine.
i would say my biggest gripe was the styling difference between the FT1 and the MKV. the B58 is what opened my eyes up to BMW's and why i now have an M2 competition instead of the MKV on order. maybe down the road i'll pick up a mkv, but i'm loving the S55 motor so far.
downshift83 I’m still waiting to see what the S55 can take HP wise because so for the fueling system doesn’t have a good upgrade
The m2 is a outstanding purchase
@@guillermolopez1690 Im a few weeks/months out but i'm looking at +500Whp with just downpipes and tune.
I'd say my biggest gripe is the similarities. They tried too hard to keep elements from the FT1 that they simply couldn't in a production car, like that hideous gash behind the door. If they had kept more of the language without trying to preserve every single feature, it would have looked a good chunk better.
Me personally i would love it if toyota name it the Ft 1 instead of supra
Damian von Krövzic oh yeah yeah
not possible for FT1, it will never be done like we saw
It would be nice if Toyota makes an FT-1 limited version of the new supra, limited because the price will go up to over $100,000. But you get all the aeros from the FT1 concept and 540 hprs from the B58 with a bigger twin scroll turbo, TRD cams, etc etc. FT-1 will stand for FastTrack-1
@@h.a.4600 it is not possible as i said, FT1 was only concept car, it cant fit pedestriant safety protocols of EU and aerodynamics
@@leodoingthings1706 Genius, im talking about using the current supra body, develop a body kit inspired on the FT-1 concept with functional aero parts and make the engine more powerfull. It's like saying taking a normal 911 porshe body and making the GT3 conversion.
I honeslty really like the new supra, unlike some others. A lot of people are upset because it's not exactly like the old one but are they really that surprised? It's 2019, its obviously going to be much more modernized, which is mostly good imo. I think once these things actually get delivered and out in the world, and when people actually start modifying them and such, it will be an awesome car. Rip manual though, an option would've been nice. Fingers crossed for a manual version in future. :D
Same
I think the new Supra is going to be a good performer, I just wanted a Toyota product, not a BMW product. Nothing wrong with BMW, but it's like telling someone they should like the Warriors instead of the Lakers because the Warriors are winning now.
@Damian von Krövzic Probably because the FT-1 used the same Supra proportions. The new Supra is wrapped around the Z4 roadster coupe. So naturally it has very different proportions to a 2+2 coupe.
Just to clear things up for ya. People aren't upset because "it's not exactly like the old one".. People are upset because it NOT EVEN A FRIGGING TOYOTA.... It's disingenuous, and a slap in the face of enthusiasts who loved Toyota sports cars....
@@bliglum Yup, that's my only reason. I actually think the car will perform well, but at $50k it's a hard sell and then being a BMW killed the deal for me.
We are already reflashing the B58's so that will be fine. Being a German vehicle tool companies will do everything they can to be able to flash them!
I love how all of a sudden everyone is a qualified automotive engineer that knows better than a multi million dollar company.
The new supra craze is like a bad cold I'm over it, its like yesterdays news boring now and there's too much BS about it. Truth be told some people love it and some people are going to hate on it but if people want to spend their money on it then more power to them but it will never ever take the place the MK4 Supra Period.
Those are my thoughts Ryan
Peace!
They claim its going to do a 7:40 ring time. If that isnt great i dont know what is.
@@aawwmm Very impressive. The engine must be underrated. I'm gonna asume its 380 not the 335 they're claiming. And the chassis must be good too
well thats the thing then how is toyota ever going to make a new supra if you have that kind of attitude towards it? what do you expect, that toyota just makes a mk4 clone?
@Jack Bower Agreed, at this point I'd settle for Toyota's new Twin Turbo V6, the V35A.
@Jack Bower I find it funny when people say 3JZ. there's no such thing as a triple overhead cam engine
the toyota Camry makes 301hp... the Camry makes almost as much hp as the supra lol
301hp just hog the family around not for performance.
smallish_mk3 a better example would of been the Lexus RC350.
And weight a lot more, no comparison
@@zakkrick that's my point it's just a Camry lol. you would think the supra would make alot more hp than the Camry stock.
@@andreydrekinakh I'm not saying its remotely a competitor. I'm saying it makes the supras numbers seem underwhelming to most buyers.
The B58 Plasma arc spraying is the same process used in the aluminum VR38DETT (The R35 GTR engine)
@Brad Viviviyal What is the difference? I looked and all the information I found claimed it is the same thing.
The power it has stock can be easily remedied by a tune. Same as most turbo cars. A simple tune would put this thing around 350-370 wheel horse power and similar torque. Need more? E85. need more? Water-meth injection. Need more? Single turbo. Need more? Bigger turbo. All this criticism and the car hasn’t even come out.
Well Said!
Need more? New con rod bearings. Need more? Get Vanos replacement.. Need more? Crank hub failures, oil cooler issues... Actually, all that will happen while in STOCK trim. People don't need the car to come out to know that it's going to be garbage..
blmb047 shouldn’t have to do all that if you’re paying 50k for a “Supra” a gtr out the box was revolutionary with the best launch control when the r35 came out when they were going for 110k, the Supra in the 90’s was 30-40k
If you can get 450 horsepower out of this car reliably you have a win because of the weight
All I know from experience and owning bmw..their cars r junk, electric issues, engine issues...sensor issues...the list goes on and on.
Can’t wait to see “omg it costed me $$$$$ to fix my car, and toyota refused warranty cuz mods” Vids .
same lame vids everywhere on all performance cars.
Good explanation! I wasn’t impressed with the power output but know it comes forged bottom is promising! Hopefully the aftermarket comes with a lot of support for the car
The power was underratedated for insurance purposes
@@jdmjimmy and probably to pass emissions. That's the thing about the 2JZ numbers. They didn't have to pass the same kind of emissions rules that the A90 has to deal with. I'm 99% if they could follow the same rules as the A80, we'd be looking at a 450-500 hp car out of the box. But we don't have to follow the rules (at least where I live) so you can bet that people will be cranking these up with tunes, intakes, and less restrictive exhausts
Let's see how it manage more power mods from a larger turbo set up and so on... 🤔
Marcus A. Rivera should be able to handle a lot more power. It’s a closed deck block. The n54 wasn’t as solid of an engine yet people are pushing 600-700whp on the stock block.
If it'll make 1000whp sbe and live a while I'll be impressed.
The B58 engine is going to be great! I tuned my own 2JZ and it was a fairly simple process working between spark and fuel tables. But adding twin variable cams would be really interesting when managing air/load going into the engine.
This is why big cams in a 2JZ only shift the power band; but if you could increase/decrease cam duration overlap between high/low loads, there would be significant gains in area under the torque curve.
VVTi on the 2jz makes up a lot of that difference on bigger cams. Biggest issue I see with the B58 is that it's very undersquare. Borderline diesel bore/stroke ratio. Revving that thing out like a 2jz isn't going to be a possibility which *really* limits the use of bigger turbos.
Sean Grimes I guess torque and horsepower numbers will look like the 7M engines/days. Torque monsters...
Brad Viviviyal 1300hp and only 7500rpms?? What size cams?
@Brad Viviviyal Why 7500? I can't think of any turbo for the 2jz that can flow 1300hp and runs out of breath above 7500. I can't think of any aftermarket rods and pistons that wouldn't be happy above 7500. I can't think of any aftermarket valves, springs, retainers, and cams that wouldn't be happy above 7500. I know all of that isn't stock for 1300hp. So, why limit yourself to 7500 when the big power guys are pushing well above that? Hell, the small power guys, myself, are revving out to 8250 all day long without a single problem on stock bottom end, cams, springs/valves/retainers. I'm not trying to be a dick but that's completely inconsistent with almost every other 2jz pushing that kind of power, not to mention how rare 1300hp builds are despite what youtube leads people to believe. I'd love to hear the details, can you point me to any forum posts for your build or any other posts so I can take a look and learn something to help me out with my own car?
@@seangrimes4577 i totally get your concern with that. Are 2j's routinely revving out much higher than s54's? or does NA and Turbo not translate like that?
So, what we have here is a German and Japanese collaboration. Never ends well..... Nissan and Toyota are getting so lazy, I'm considering bald eagles and pushrods.
Elaborate on Nissan I was unaware they used anything but their own engines.
@@Slyfoxboy I kinda threw Nissan in there, mainly because of their ridiculous lazy CVT campaign. Nissan also killed the inline 6 in the gtr and z, which was a slap in the face. There really is no better engine than an i6. The experience of a 5 or 6 speed 3 pedal car with an i6 is sublime.
American manufactures seem to be the ones that stay true to their roots they continue the legacy of muscle cars while japan is making Japanese European cars🤨where the fuck did the JDM in toyota and nissan go?!
@@fransiscoh9450 yea, except for pickup trucks with v6 turbos that hog more gas than a proper v8 when used hard. Or destroying the American auto Glass industry. Or buying their electronics from China. They have all bent over for their globalist shareholders and give us nothing more than a shiny paint job and a desecrated name badge....with an 84 month payment plan.
it's the same collab as previous gen just without yamaha, they were lazy back then too?
I really appreciate you making a video that uses facts and logic to explain why this new Supra may actually be a great car. It's good to see someone actually trying to understand it instead of bashing it blindly. I also agree with you that this car should not, and was never intended to be a MK4 Version 2. It was meant to be its own thing, yet nobody can seem to grasp that.
Good to hear everything is forged, the 2JZ has high popularity since it could reach 600-800hp without having to open up the engine. Informative video, thank you :)
B58s sound REALLY good. B58s are already in a ton of BMW models. All the _40i models have them. If you look up 340i AWE exhaust you’ll see what I mean. Sound is not going to be a problem for this car
Xpogosam The 40i models sound so much better than the M cars!
Lysergic Casserole right? I was looking into them so I could get an idea as to what the new Supra could sound like and I fell in love with the 340is. If the new Supra has the b58 then that kinda makes the 340 a modern day JZX
B58 with aftermarket exhaust sounds great.a bit similar to the 1jz-gte.
@@LysergicCasserole95 true! The S55 sounds like crap compared to B58 or even N55
I expect the Supra will be a magnificent track car for those of us into that. Maybe not the straight line monster, GTR killer everyone wanted (and not in the same price range), but still a brilliant car.
@Brad Viviviyal I've said it numerous times. My 80hp mid engined fiat was way more fun to drive than my MKIV back when i had one. There is absolutely nothing better than momentum driving, going through turns pedal to the metal. Straight line acceleration is a different adrenaline rush. A sports car should aim to combined straight line acceleration adrenaline with pedal-to-the-metal-while-turning adrenaline. If it does that successfully then, who cares whether or not it beats a gtr on a runway?
Here we go again playing the probabilities game.
@@Genevagirls-h2x Yeah! It's fun driving a slow car fast, but *man* is it a drag to drive a fast car slow because you are out of rubber or suspension.
Personally I think the b58 will be superior to the 2jz once the aftermarket support kicks in. Problem with the mkv supra is the chasis was designed 20 years to late. New cars just arnt made the same anymore
The chassis is stiffer than the LFA chassis, I think thats a good thing.
@@izzdin6228 didnt know that, that's pretty cool. Dont get me wrong I think the chasis will be good, just not the same as what we love
@@kaneradcliffe5804 let's wait & see how the new kid performs, especially by Chris Harris. The UK seem to like the mk5. Here's a link to it:
www.carscoops.com/2019/01/toyota-uk-overbooked-supra-a90-edition-orders-massive-demand-caused-technical-failure/amp/
@@izzdin6228 it all starts with the engine block. There is no inline 6 block better then the 2jz. B58 might be a good engine but its not better then the 2jz.
However it seems the mk5 chassis and suspension is superior to the mk4. Also mk5 has an active rear differential with steering assist.
So basically the mk5 is just superior to the mk4 in handling.
The b58 had been out for some time. Yet you don't see people modding it like the 2jz.
Definitely more expensive to mod a b58 then a 2jz..
@@MARZOSIRUS true, the b58 is not tuned as much due to cost. But is that only in the US? Cuz a few comments from another vid claim they have modded the b58 in Germany. I also expect the mk5 to hug the corners at stupid speeds.
Iron coated bores have been tried and tested by many manufacturers now. The 5.8 in the 13-14 GT500, and the 5.0 in the 18+ GT use the same transfer-arc technology as the B58. BMW engines are mechanically very sound. People usually only have problems with sub-optimal electronic ancillaries (like the water pump issue).
It's so weird how the passion you express when discussing this engine is similar to the passion I feel when I logic through just how powerful modern semi-truck engines are.
80,000lbs total loaded (33,000lbs empty) - 12,000lbs on the steering axle - 34,000lbs on the drive axles (17,000lbs/axle) - 34,000lbs on the trailer tandem axle (17,000lbs/axle). The engine itself weighs 3,400lbs!
I load the trailer with 45,000lbs of cargo and pull this up the side of a large hill or mountainous area with 455hp and 1,750 lb/ft at 40+mph.
I fucking love how crazy powerful they are. I'm into heavy and powerful. lol
Great video man, gave me a good insight into the B58, honestly it makes sense for Toyota to go with a sourced motor, they legit dont have another car to utilize a inhouse developed motor for. At the time of the development of the 1JZ/2JZ motors they were being utilized in more then just supras, they came in like 5 other car models i.e cressida, soarer, chaser, and such, and now with most of the RWD cars being lexus branded and V6, toyota deciding to stick with a I6 platform means they dont have anything they can put in the car and the Toyota bean counters damn well arent gonna drop money into R&D for a motor they couldnt use in any other cars. Its because toyota decided when they were bringing this car back it had to be I6 that they went to BMW for the collab. Yes the purist supra owner fanboy is upset but i also understand that was the right move, BMW has been developing performance Inline 6's while other JDM companies are out of the game and have switched to V6s. If you had to choose between BMW I6 or Toyota V6 which would you go with? Personally i wouldnt touch any V6s for a performance cars, they sound like crap to me, and the GTR is the only one thats halfway decent sound wise and it outperforms alot, but at a hefty cost.
The Toyota Aristo was the FIRST to have the 2JZ. Not the Supra MK4 A80.
@@TheRedc0met It's because no one was going to pay too much for a vehicle that is just a Toyota in the end
I own a mkiv supra myself and i am upset that the new supra is a bmw with a toyota badged on it. All the internal parts have bmw logo, suspension, rear diff, shocks. I might as well go buy a bmw m4 or something and put a toyota badged on it. The only positive thing that come out of this whole deal is that toyota is trying to get back into sports car and not making rental cars every year.
I really like Toyota pushing the Supra to be a performer in the corners. Let’s be real the mk4 was more of a performer when modded in a straight line compared to in the twisties. Tuned these are for sure going to pick up lots of power but the only thing I’m hesitant about is why would they not release a 6 speed? The mk4 6 speeds are the real treasures that enthusiasts seek so for them to leave that option out is crazy. Really hope they offer it later on. PLEASE.
Let's be real? The supra was the best handling car in the jgtc and most motoring magazines praised the cars handling stock. This is somewhat incorrect.
Khoelle Basnight no the rx7fd will blow a Supra out of the water in handling mk4 is heavy and slow in stock form
@@khoellebasnight4428 let's remember the jgtc supra was a i4 turbo, so its not so nose heavy.
@@izzdin6228 my previous comment still stands. Most automotive journalist praised the handling of the supra.
@@Malibus_Most_Wanted an fd sure, but the rx7 was marketed as a sports car whereas the supra was always a sporty gt car. When compared to its actual rivals (300zx, 3000gt, etc) it's a very good handling car. Please watch 90s reviews regarding the jza80 instead of assuming the car cannot handle and making irrelevant comparisons.
Good technical information. The block/head confusion thing is understandable - they're mating surfaces, so what appears on one side is also on the other (and in the gasket that goes in between them). I'm liking this engine after your rundown here...
They will be running high dynamic compression, meaning high nox and more oil vapour. I hope the closed deck can keep up with the cooing and that the crank case comes with an oil swirl pot.
A bit of misinformation at 6:20
A stock 2jz uses a high silicon cast piston and is not forged.
"Silicone" is a polymer made of cross-linked chains of the elements Silicon and Oxygen. "Silicone" is not used in pistons. Silicon is.
@@GroovesAndLands ayy my bad
And seven mains at the crankshaft.😎
pistons were always one of the first things changed on 2jz motors. the rest of the bottom end was insane from the factory
Your garage is goals man.
Thanks for the very informative video, decently explained a lot of things to someone who loves cars, but really has no proper knowledge or understanding about the works, differences and intricacies of these different engines. It's also fun and sad to see how the fans and haters clash in the comments.
Of course the Mk.IV Supra is an institution as is the 2JZ engine and they have rightfully earned their status in the upper echelons of performance and tuner cars. And after 25 years the iconic name gets a resurrection. After learning about the BMW collaboration part I too am a bit bummed out, because this could've been the perfect chance for Toyota to bring something new and iconic to the market, instead of only the fresh looks and name. For a company that has made it's name and still being a major player in the industry a "3JZ" engine development shouldn't have been too much of a hassle and probably would've ended up awesome too. But as we live in the modern day where manufacturing efficiency and profit maximization are key to surviving, so making a whole new engine and own platform makes little to no sense for such a low volume product and a "niche" market. There might be an oversight on the Toyota side, but only time will tell.
Of course the 2JZ is iconic for it's insane power capability but time will show how the B58 will come to be tuned and at what cost. People are always fast to complain and put things down, just because it's something new or not what they wanted. And quite honestly, who truly needs 1000 horsepower? Even 600 is still a-fucking-lot for any car for that matter. So many fanboys complaining everywhere about the BMW engine and how 2JZ is superior and all that crap, when even half of those people wont probably even own either and even then, probably would never even take those insane powers out of the engine that it could. Just fucking be happy for the fact that there's a new Supra, it looks recognizably like a Supra and after that, it can be whatever. 2JZ swap it if you want or stuff a big american V8 in it for all I care. The car will be anything the people make of it, whether it only uses the chassis for the looks or the whole package.
It's the Supra of our time whether a collab or not. How about you make it your own and enjoy it?
It looks nothing like a new supra. It looks like a new Z4, inside and out. This was not a good decision, it was a money decision that will probably fail. Look how well the 86/BRZ/FRS did.
I bought my N54 E90 BMW because I couldn’t get my hands on a 2J Supra for a reasonable price and I would never look back. I know most people aren’t familiar with bmw N54, 55 and B48 engines but they are very tuner friendly and you can get 100+ WHP out of them for under $1000. Tune, Intake, DPs, corn and you go from low 300s high 200s to the wheels stock to 450whp pretty easy. The engines are pretty much bulletproof. The stuff that fails are all the things attached to the engine like that old electronic water pump, the older DI fuel injectors, and on the N54s, stock coil packs. Overall, in a few years, you’ll start seeing 800 and 900whp A90s. You’ll enjoy OBD port, Bluetooth flashing from your phone and tuning with an app in 2 minutes. Trust the BMW guys. This version of the N58 is nicely defined and has a lot of potential left.
FYI BMW's Dual VANOS with Valvetronic is the second most advanced valve control system after Koenigseggs FreeValve. It allows for infinitely variable valve timing and lift through the usable range (vs for example Hondas 2 profile VTEC). The VANOS side is actuated through oil pressure (like VTEC) however it runs at around 100 bar, this means that your oil needs to be regularly changed (with good synthetic oil) to ensure reliability. If this is not done, or if the vehicle is extremely old and high milage the O rings can wear out and need replacement (at a very modest parts cost, NB newer BMWs use stronger O rings that dont seem to wear... yet). The horror stories come from people that went to the dealerships for this job and were told to buy an entirely new VANOS unit rather than repairing the old one, but now that aftermarket exists this is not really a problem.
This is what I want to see. Give a builder $5000 budget and see what motor makes the best hp.
they did something similar with the New Coyote and the 6.2. Without any boost, both of them made like 600 or 700 hp if I remember right. You can find it if you look up 5.0 coyote vs LS build.
In my opinion it's going to be a great car, bmw engines are super easy to tune. A Bmw inline engine can gain a 100hp without changing anything but the tune, it's the way german cars work, they give a product that works for the normal people that represent a big number of drivers, but they also give you the necessary built to create a racing car from the factory. They build it to help you make it fast without having to spend alot of money. That way the people looking for more power won't affect the car sales by having to release a car that only a few will want to buy. Keep in mind that there's a lot of restriction about building cars in now, your car need to be safe and eco friendly. So for having more power than the 2jz that didn't have as much restrictions is already a good thing.
Well people are making 800 plus on 2JZGTE builds with just a turbo fueling and cooling upgrades. I highly doubt the BMW will be able to even come close to those numbers. Plus this engine from BMW isn't rebuildable. You have to replace the block. The new coating on the cylinder walls cant be replaced if you wanted to bore the block.
2j's and RB's will be joining together in a golf clap when the alusil fails start happening.
Being decades apart the designs are not comparable at all. Built to different specs under different regulations, the requirements of both engines are very different. There is more to an engine that just paper stats.
The S5x /M5x is a good platform for good power. The S5x can make 500hp with the factory crank which is already forged and heat treated. S52 is already a viable RB26-2JZ-esk engine.
All I gotta say is the 2jz is still making new records and has tons of tuning potential that needs to be unlocked.
When BMW made the N54 they literally took a 2JZ apart. Everything was built for strength but it wasnt closed deck. When Toyota came on board with the Supra I personally think they had a big imput in developing the B58 engine. BMW would have never gone closed deck and mechanical waterpump etc. if it wasn't for Toyota's imput. They know in a few years the car in the 2nd hand market will get huge tunes. There is company thats selling tuned B58 crate engines that produces 1000bhp out of the box. And Toyota ran the prototype race Supra with modified B58 around the Nurburgring in 7 minutes flat. Now thats something special.
Source for these infos?
Toyota had no part in developing the b58. The b58 has been out for a couple years now
@@st1ckyplumz The new Supra has been in development for 5+ years.... They sure have been mingling with ze Germans all that time.
Anima. I doubt it. That engine is currently used in the 340, 440, ect.... Toyota engines are known for their reliability and simplicity. The b58 is far from it. It has a liquid cooled intercooler, that is inside the intake manifold which is also somehow tied in with the a/c system. It uses micro pins for the dme, it uses an electronic wastegate for the turbocharger and anything that does go wrong with that engine, the parts have to be shipped from Germany which can take a couple weeks depending. Nothing on that engine says Toyota anywhere
I doubt it, the whole point was that Toyota can make a Supra because BMW did all the work. If it was a collaboration I highly doubt that every single bolt, sensor, brittle piece of plastic would be a BMW part.
People are talking about the new supra as if they already have one lol
They dont know how reliable it will be
They dint know the power it will hold
Jeez
Josue Aguilar I can tell you one thing it’s a build by BMW and it will not hold its value like a regular Toyota would.
@@kurtleonce6221 Basically how it is. Just look at the prices of used BMWs vs Lexus. The Lexus is always more expensive. Everyone knows BMW is more popular it's the performance luxury brand, yet because of reliability and cost of maintenance you see the difference in prices.
In the future they will know
Josue Aguilar Well the B58 motor is already out in many BMW's 340i/M240i/etc. so as far as motor reliability people know what they're getting into.
@@colejackson3968 It's only been out for a few years. Long term reliability in BMWs usually shows up sometime after 5 years. We'll have to wait and see another few years before we can say the motor is completely reliable.
New subscriber here. Awesome breakdown on the motors. I would like to say the 2JZ was not outdated, furthermore: I think BMW themselves took inspiration from the 2JZ when building this engine. I read on a Supra MKV forum that Toyota actually helped design the B58. BMW was sending their B58 units to Japan to get it “inspected” from Toyota. This will be an awesome motor, even Mercedes is bringing back their inline sixes. What a time to be alive, what a time to be a car guy.
B58 was ''inspired'' by the 2006 N54 unit.
Still cool @Peder Hansen
Good motor @@davissilvestrs1996
@Peder Hansen thats right, so i dont get why bmw would inspect 2jz engine, even when they did work on it, to make it to production cars
This engine aside from internal headers sounds amazing
The plasma iron cylinder wall lining is not new. It’s been used on the S55 inline 6 engine in the M2/3/4. Saves weight over standard steel liners.
The million dollar question is the new supra gonna have Toyota reliability and the answer is probably not. 😩
I think just the Vanos will cause issues + the electronics. Otherwise it's a strong engine
I'm worried about cooling system and controlling the iat. The electronics going to limp mode especially if its false code.
Im building the N55 and the B58 at my work :)
Didn't someone actually dyno a the new Supra + B58 recently and found it to actually put out 376?
Try 382
B58 is the highest rated inline 6 in production. I actually think this is the best currently available option for a Supra I’m glad you made this also variants of the ZF 8 speed auto are used in the v8 BMW’s, Alfa Romeo Guila and dodge helcat and Demon it makes me optimistic about this car
Greetings from South Africa Love your Vids! OLD Supra is a beast!!
The Barra motor is the new 2JZ, not the BMW motor. 😎 360-430hp stock in FG form, easily modded to 1000hp+, taking almost 2 ton Ford's to regular low 9sec passes street registered. 👍
Engine is good but damn its a shit car, interior is whack and the seating position is literally the opposite its supposed to be. massively expensive and it handles like a tub, but yes tuned right it will gap anything
@@justingray760 😂🤣😂🤣 Wrong wrong wrong and wrong. FG XR6 Turbo's were under 45K AUD (34K USD) brand new, the F6 310 was less than 60K (45K US. Right now you can buy a 2004 BA version on carsales for $4K (3K US), buy better valve springs, valves, rods, pistons, big turbo, exhaust, ECU, beef up BTR transmission and rear. So for roughly $25K total you could have a low 10-high 9sec car capable of withholding roughly 800hp all day. 👍 Or a 2010 FG for 11K and add similar amount of around 20K to build it, so 31K total. 😎 Similar prices are on the Commodore side too with various LS turbo combos. $4-6K on a SS Commodore and go that direction. 👍
@@MafiaboysWorld lmao 6k on a commodore ss wouldn't go anywhere near that for starters, thats maybe a tune and exhaust you could maybe pull on a mustang GT ( maybe ). my point is they were not a nice car for the price range at the time, yes it made huge power but again after market wasn't cheap and after money spent you could have got something alot nicer all be it slower. and you can spend 25k on heaps of cars that will make big power my point is despite the power it was a pretty shit car to be in,
(coming from an 2012 FG owner) sold it ages ago
@@justingray760 No, I meant 6K for one stock then spend roughly same 20K as the Falcon bro. 👍🤣😂
But not disagreeing with that point of getting something better for less that's slower. You could get an early 2000s Audi S4 for similar price now as an FG and not only are they better equipped, they're faster too. 👍
Well post up those 5sec passes! I can't find any.
just put 2jz in new supra.. people will not complain anymore
Zaki Muhamad GTE only
that would be dumb. did you not watch the video?
@@spyrosm.2871 even the GE is a nice engine
Zaki Muhamad That’s right
They would never be able to put a 2JZ in and make it comply with all the shit regulations that get passed by tree hugger politicians. CAFE standards are making it harder and harder.
i think people are underestimating the car give it time we all might just have another legend in our hands it might just surprise us all
Capt Honeybunns Saw a post recently of a 240i with the B58 that made 655whp on stock internals, and the engine can apparently almost make 500whp on stock turbo.
susanrc73 yup in do time we might be surprised at what enthusiasts will try to pull off with this set up
If we get another Legend, it will be a BMW legend, not a Supra legend. This motor is found in all of the new BMWs. The new Z4 is getting the higher output version 385hp.
Sigma Projects yup that is true but it will still be a toyota
@@TeonCyndi How so? It's no secrete that the engine is a BMW unit. If it's a "Toyota" legend it would just be this akward feeling of BMWs making lots of power and then this one Toyota next to them and anyone who didn't know would be like "why is there a Toyota with the other BMWs?" It's confusing. Toyota has a great product on hand, but for long term marketing anything Toyota does to make this generation of Supra successful will really only benefit BMW. No mater if Toyota redoes everything on the car. I mean people still think that myth that a German engineer developed the 2JZ, so in the coming year people will probably say that Toyota can't make a real sports car, they needed BMW expertise in engine building and making a reliable performance engine. In the end I think BMW is going to get a nice publicity bump. I don't see how anyone can spin this so that it looks like Toyota's on top. It wouldn't surprise me if people starts saying "Why buy a Lexus F model when you can get a BMW? Even Toyota uses BMW when they want a serious sports car."
I went from a WRX to a BMW M240i with the B58. The WRX had some very noticeable turbo lag off the line. My new BMW has zero apparent turbo lag and feels almost like a normally aspirated engine.
BMW changed the timing chain location to the rear for less crankshaft vibrations so presumably more durable.
The crankshaft is the only forged internal part of which I am aware. Pistons on BMW cars are eutectic.
N54 and N55 have dual Vanos. N55 and later have Valvetronic (variable intake valve lift).
Direct injection is better than Toyota's and the HPFP is at a much higher pressure now.
The ECU have been cracked so they are all OBD II flashable, but the latest DME will know they have been accessed.
Some part of me believes that Toyota and BMW clearly are banking that people will modify/tune their B58 engines for way more power....rather than give them “OEM” calibrated high torque/horsepower. Hence, the low Tq/Hp from the factory....their obviously saying to the market “tune/modify” me (engine); don’t leave me stock (too low).
Great observation. Been thinking the same. I mean, it is the next supra why leave it stock? They went through the trouble of finding an engine they knew would make way more power tuned and built.
I kind of doubt that, unless they're hoping people will void warranties and have to buy new ones. Toyota got the short end of the stick, the new Z4 will have the regular tuned B58 which will be 385hp instead of the Supra's detuned 335hp. BMW didn't want Toyota to sell the same car at a lower price unless it was less powerful.
I mean the creator said this himself in an interview....
@@CSZohan if you're talking about Tada, he says a lot of things to just sound good for marketing and for sure can't speak for the dealer network. He's also said stuff like the fake scoops and vents are covers and if you pop them off they're functional, but as people have seen, it's not true and they're purely aesthetic.
Basically because you can tell by the underrated hp/tq from factory along with how the engine is setup. It's meant to be a high hp light car.... that's a recipe for disaster to all cars on the road. Plus theres too many tuners that can deal with this motor cheaper than other brands except some american brands
Im just salty about the auto
I agree 100% car companies nowadays arent even giving consumers the option for manual transmissions anymore. Like I said in my post c7 z06 for stock performance and i guess ill be picking up a 2013 nismo370 for a project twinturbo build. Its got great handling and a nice tt setup would be great. Shit it comes with 350hp on a n/a v6. Pp sleep on that car but it has so much tuning potential. And it looks great.
Manuals will be available... with turbo... in right hand drive only. Disappointingly lazy.
I think it should have been offered with a dual-clutch or a sequential MSG slushbox
Running a car with over a thousand horsepower in a standard manual transmission requires a lot of skill and is very dangerous for the second you take when your hands off the wheel to shift the gear something catastrophic can happen
@@Sevej1920 I don't think you should ever run a 1000 hp car full throttle on public road. While on the racetrack, people have been driving that kind horsepower with manual transmission for a long time and not that much accidents happened.
After this new Supra the 1994 Supra went up $20k.
Who tf wants a old shitbox
@@purplefabian exactly
I'm from the BMW world, and sorry to disappoint, but the B58 ECU has been a tough nut to crack. There are some severe fueling restrictions that have been difficult to work with. Supposedly the DME has been cracked, but we aren't seeing much actual returns from that and few flashing options. Only option is to use a piggy back and additional fueling like Meth or TBI. With that, the stock turbo is good for around 450WHP though, and well over 500 with upgraded stock turbo options. Oh and also, no BOV/DV on this engine, excess boost vents through the engine via valve timing, so no whoosh!
Great video, one thing I'd like to add is that some of the B58 community has shown the car to make roughly 330 whp as a baseline. BMW has a history of underrating the power numbers of their motors.
😄 I cant wait to someone grab the new 2020 supra Body and put a 2jz in it. Cool video bro 😙👊
willmatic 84 shouldn’t have to spend 50k just to drop a 2JZ. Toyota should of done this from the start....
@@nilaht9 I know I agree with you they should of made a 3jz but just for the hell of it i just wanna see some one do the swap 😄
Or do the opposite, take a mk4 supra chassis & swap in a b58. Just for the heck of it. The salt level online is gonna be glorious.
BMW S55 with water injection in the Supra with 500HP would be sick!! BMW should of done that well actually - Toyota should of asked BMW for that engine instead. I think it’s Toyota not BMW here
BTW - Lots of people blame BMW for the low power and whatever but it’s not BMWs fault. Toyota was told as a deal to get a engine and that’s it. Toyota could of asked for the S55 but they didn’t.. Toyota if anything De-tuned the original B58 as well. Reliability isn’t a issue as there is no reports or bad rep on the B58 at all. So BMW cannot be the blame for anything.
The Truth bmw is the king of inline 6 could of asked for any motor they wanted bmw would cater
S55 doesnt pass new euro emissions and is no longer in production.
BAYAREAMX
That was the N55, the S55 plant is still being produced , M4 and M2 Competition are still in production and the engine is still being developed.
S55 is old and based on the N55. It will be replaced soon by a S58, based on the better B58.
Bmw were never going to put an M car engine in another brand car.
The spray in liners help with heat and weight, the timing chain is at the rear to limit crank twist common on inline 6's, the main water pump is mechanical, with an electric valvebody/pump for cooldown/warm up, its direct injection as well, if it's TRUE twin scroll it will sound just like any other inline 6, shim under bucket is best saved for rpm higher than production cars use, and roller rockers give more lift for cam height WITH hydraulic lash, and have been around for ever, and dual vanos means a broader powerband, tho vanos itself hasn't proven to be too reliable, and being only direct injection with dual vanos, the intake valves will eventually gum up, and valvetronic (variable valve lift)which is exclusive to bmw and nissan who has a similar system. Just a few things ya missed..
Fun fact: the R35 GTR also comes with spray in liners & that motor can make tons of power too. So spray in liners are already proven tech.
@@izzdin6228 gt500, 2018+ 5.0, r35 gtr, bmw b58, LOTS of manufacturers are using it, mostly in high output/high stress environments to aid in cooling the cylinder, it's not really new as much as developed enough to use in mass production, and while it hasn't proven as durable as iron sleeves in certain applications, you can still sleeve these engines if you end up having a problem, so it's not the end of the world. This engine is MILES better in advancement, tho I'll agree reliability has suffered. But if you want big, reliable power you should be looking at v8's lol
@@Drake5153 LS it?
@@izzdin6228 ...your gonna ls swap a brand new car..? The whole idea was for it to be a decent sports car that people could mod, and other b58 platforms are claiming 800hp without too much issue so I don't see any REAL reason why you'd want to destroy such a nice car when you could easily create a skin for a caged car and drop an ls into that and go FASTER. I'm sure the trans will take it too, if they use a bmw 7 speed dct you can buy clutch packs that hold up to 1000ftlbs, add a custom air to water manifold with 12 injectors, some crank case breathing and tuning to match, you'll have one hell of a savage on your hands...
@@Drake5153 hahahaha I think you're overtinking what I said. You said IF you want big reliable power go for a V8. So what engine on the market is affordable & is a V8? An LS. So I just said what came to mind first. But mind you that b58 to me is very promising, inline 6, forged internals, closed deck, single turbo from the factory. I'm waiting for tuners to mod it as we speak.
Edit: engine swapping a brand new car is wasteful practice personally.
As a Supra owner, awesome engine review. Very technical
I was sceptical on clicking on this video but I'm glad I did. Finally someone that ACTUALLY owns an A80 talks about the new A90. I'm looking forward for the new Supra. Sports cars are a dying breed and it's hard to comply with euro emissions. People only seem to focus on the fact that it uses BMW parts and that it is auto. But like you said, its 6 cyl, it's turbo, it's RWD, it's 2 door, 2 seats, it's 3L. Those are a lot of boxes ticked.
Love the video! People are forgetting that you can tune this car and it will
Be much easier to do so and make lots of power. Oh the Supra is to slow... 50k is to much... the GTR is 100k so for 50k less I get a really good car and if i spend 25k into or less I’m pushing close to 450-600hp easy... smh so much hate on a car that’s not even out... reminds me when the frs came out lol and look now, one of the best cheap sports car ever
Rojo86 did you just compare this z4 tona gtr?
Hiram Rosa Jr I know seriously! What an idiot
The best ever cheap sports cars,.... S-chassis hands down.
And they came out OVER 20 years earlier then the frs/gt86/brz
That's what is disappointing
Sorry this car will be OK, but should not have the supra name
Tuning BMW engines for some power may be easy, tuning for big power, not so much. What do I know, just a 11 year journeyman who has built a few cars, including several s chassis, couple mkIV and a BMW 135. Also own an evo x MR. Stock but yea. Totally easy installing meth injection on a water to air intercooler, which is step 1 in making any real power above stock on turbo BMW engines.
@0f392k49fg91h7fg893j tru. Toyota cmon...
@footballcoreano it would be better if it was all toyota
The thing that sucks is the b58 isn't that special... I mean the 340i and all other sorts of bmw have this engine.
the 2jz came with a lot of cars man
One can say any I6 isn't that special because it's an I6. So what are you expecting to see, a straight 10? Also, if an engine is good then why not put it in a number of cars just like Toyota did with 1jz (put in so many domestic market models like the mark2 and cresta (cressida for the US market). We'll see when people start working on it!
The 2jz-gte did not come in a lot of cars the ge did but not gte.
@@jr5.o100 gte came in plenty of cars? ever been to Japan?
@@scottb4370 are they in the states?
The only thing I was thinking during this video, was how the mkiv behind him has zero to change in terms of appearance. There was no way they were gonna improve on it.
GTF lmao the Supra MK4 A80 , when it was first released, was also criticized for being too different from the MK3 A70 Supra.
1. BMW rates the engines to the whp and not bhp.
2. As of today on B58 , 500whp is possible on meth and stock turbo. 700whp on stage 3 kit turbo and custom tune.
3. Thank god for BMW ECU Tuning ( I have one on my N55 and its great)
4. bmw is developing a 500hp S58 engine same 3L 6 cylinder idea, but better, I wonder if this could be in the next Z4M, or Supra upgraded version (similar to what bmw did in the M2/ M2 Competition where they used a S55 from the M3/M4 vs the standard M2 with the N55)
I'm a BMW guy myself. I have a 2011 F10 535i and a 2017 X5 which my wife drives and I love them! But growing up, I've always loved the Supra and vowed that I will get one of my own one of these days. This new Supra is a departure of what I think the Supra should look like. To me, I would have liked it to look or have some similarity of the Mark 4. Instead, it looks a lot like the BMW Z4 which is not a total letdown. You can definitely see the BMW influence. But I would rather it keep the same lines as the old Supra. As far as the engine, I'm kind of on the fence. I love the distinct sound of the 2JZ engine especially when modified. I'm hoping that this new B58 engine will produce a similar sound. I know....lol....I'm weird like that but the sound of the engine to me is also important. This new design will take some time to get used to I guess. We'll just have to wait and see when this car rolls out.
Doesn’t matter they should have put a Toyota engine in it
"tHeY sHouLd hAvE pUt a tOyoTa eNgiNe iN iT" Toyota is a corporation. Corporations need to make profit. Do you know how much it costs to develop a new engine? Billions. They aren't going to spend BILLIONS to develop, test and manufacture an entirely new engine for a single model, especially with relatively low production numbers. The B58 is a great engine and is totally deserving of being the successor to the JZ lineup. Plus, the 2JZ was built and designed with significant input from BMW and Yamaha in the first place.
cheetahautomotive ok maybe I should have listened to what they said about the new engine a little more but the 2jz was a proven platform I still would have liked to see the 2jz come back that’s My opinion. But this new Supra looks like shit that’s also my opinion
they did. just like they did with the last 2jz
2jz all the way 🔥⛽️🚀😎
*cough cough plastic parts cough
*cough cough rod bearings cough
*cough cough bad Vanos timing cough
*cough cough short live engine cough
Pls don't
Inline-six never had rod bearing issues and they last a long time. Now vanos and plastic something that still can be an issue with 100k+ miles. Rod bearing is only on early v8/v10 m3/m5. In fact bmw makes best inline-six engines, m54 can go 500k miles, n52 can do 400k miles. Turbo engines haven’t been out long enough, so we will see, I can see them last 250k at least.
@@Areku06 The S54 M3 inline 6 had rod bearing issues
GroovesAndLands you are right s54 did but its rare, I’m talking about regular non-m inline-six engines, N52/N54/n55 and B58 never had rod bearing issues.
M50B25 Turbo very mature..
I believe the GTR uses the same or similar coating on the cylinder walls. The problem being the bores cannot be milled in anyway as it will take the coating off.
Finally...thank you for making a 2020 Supra video that is not on the bandwagon hating. Great points being made, great video. I can’t wait for my 2020 Supra to arrive this summer! Planning on testing the limits of this new motor. Cheers!
In my opinion it's a disgrace toyota uses also the bmw tech......
Makes it just a z4 copycat with different bodywork.....buries all the infamous supra legacy by doing so.
Sincerely hope it doesn't sell !
Everyone's calling it a Z4 clone, but what they fail to realize is that BMW and Toyota cut off collaboration a couple years ago and the only similarities are the basic framework. All the little nuances and fine tuning are completely different. It's like saying the Toyota Camry and Lotus Exige are the same car because they use the same engine and other miscellaneous parts.
@@aaronelsen5287 Couldn't have put it better myself. These 12 year olds really have no clue what they're on about.
If you're going to remake a sports car that is suppose to bring back the legacy of the old one don't make it closely resemble another car you've collaborated with. They could of done more to the body that looks more Supra style. Instead we've gotten a z4 top with a z4 back side with arch and a z4 hood with a clear hood scoop and a new front bumper. Also they've made it automatic when almost every* Supra owner owns a manual. They're also going to make a new Celica that's a 4 cylinder as well. Let's just hope it's not a fwd automatic with a low 200-225 hp engine.
just like 2jz a disgrace by bmw and yamaha...? oh and it handled like shit stock guess we need total toyota updated suspension too...then we'd have a "real supra"
You and EE explained this engine very well B58 isn't bad after All.
the process for the cylinder bores is plasma arc coating or spraying. i do this to add deck height to blocks etc.
Here's something I've thought of with the B58, the block is also used in a diesel version that makes something like 580ft/lbs stock. So if we extrapolate that to a higher rpm. that would be around 700hp without really going outside the realm of stock.
Give it to the Z4 stock tune and you’ll have much more Power. And give it a Z4 performance tune and you’ll have muuuuch more power. And then if you modify the engine beyond a tune you’ll have MUCCCHHHHHH more power. But common fault is the timing chain. Be sure to check that out when going over 600bhp.
Finally a Supra fanboy who isn’t like “if it’s not a JZ it’s not a Supra”. I honestly like where Toyota is going along with BMW. Change happens, but sometimes it’s for the best.
Every stock b58 I've seen on rolling road has be 350 BHP plus very underrated engine
This was a great video, most videos people have been recently making do not go into detail to support their opinion. I think the B58 motor will do great currently it is used in a variety of BMW cars. Burger motor sports offers tuning options for them, just a stage 1 tune makes 379 WHP according to BMS. I can imagine there will be plenty of aftermarket support and these cars will make easily 400whp with bolt ons and 450whp plus with e85. The styling is a slap on the face from the ft-1 concept but the biggest let down NO MANUAL!
The b58 is pretty much a mass produced m3 m4 f80 bmw engine which has a lot of potential and proven reliability. This would definitely go down as a legendary engine.
B58 has made 640 whp on stock fuel system with just a hot parts kit. Once PI comes along its gonna be crazy and the B58 that comes in the mk5 has a better fuel sysetm then previous bmws its gonna make power!
I can tell you exactly how the new cylinder wall coating is going to work on the B58. GREAT! I know because they’ve been using it on the S55 in the M3 and M4 for 5 years now. This is not really new technology anymore. Maybe new to Supra drivers...
Couple of things to clear up.
-The power rating is generally a WHP rating from bmw. Dynos of the 340i (Less powerful b58-pre tech revision) puts it at around 330-340whp. As for the pistons, they are not forged, they are hypereuctectic (Cast) like the 2JZ/n55/n54/s55 all had this will likely be the weak point of the motor.
-This motor has valvetronic which on most modern bmws, keeps the throttle body open all the way while the valves do the "Throttling" so its somewhat similar to ITBs in terms of responsiveness.
-The crank is forged steel nitrided crank (insanely strong), the rods are forged steel (not that sintering bs like whats on the bmw v8's)
-The block is actually shared with the new diesel bmw I6 coming out and bmw themselves admit the block is overbuilt for gasoline combustion
-The cylinder liner is the twin wire arc spray which has been used in the GTR, personally i'd prefer the old cast in iron sleeves considering the spray is only .3mm thick and cannot be honed.
-The intake manifold has an intercooler integrated inside it which can't be fun for modding.
-The timing system was moved to the rear to reduce torsional crankshaft shock between the trans and the timing chain. The BMW timing chain systems are VERY reliable, chain guides may show serious wear past 200k and the chain might be a little stretched but this is almost never a failure point.
-The n55/n54 both had double vanos and it's been very reliable aside from the vanos bolt recall on the n55 and the occasional vanos solenoid cleaning.
-One big improvement over the "old" b58 in the 340i is the added fuel pressure ~4500psi. Coming from the n54/n55/s55 world, one of the biggest tuning problems, especially when running e85, was the dip in rail pressure so this will give some nice room on the fuel ceiling.
All in all, this motor should be able to make similar power as the 2JZ on stock internals if not more. The n54 which has "weaker" internals made 867whp on stock internals for thousands of miles
A while back I upgraded the cams in my IS300 but I didn't realize the 2JZ used shims so I ended up having to do the job twice. On the first startup without re-shimming, the valvetrain made absolutely horrendous knocking noises. It was a surprise since the previous cars I've changed cams in used rockers (E36 M52B28 and E46 M54B30) and didn't require any adjustment.
Remember, the 247mph McLaren F1 had an engine from BMW's M division. If they could build a dry sump, 48 valve 600 plus horsepower monster of a motor in the early 90's, this engine has a chance of being decent.
I was very against at 1st, because I always associated BMW would very expensive, but after doing more research and see what they're doing I believe that to you it has made the right move with its reliability, and its partnership with BNW, not to mention that they kept the heart of the to JC but stayed up today with government regulations and technology
the reason the 2J can be built to spin so high is the bucket valves, it's the same tech used in sport bikes for a reason, it's reliable at high RPM. this BMW roller setup is complex to account for variable timing, can it be built to spin high? sure, but more parts= more spots for failure.
Great info, Everybody is going to change their mind once bodykits and engine limits are found out.
Yamaha designed (Toyota built) 2jz engine, and the b58 is notorious for making more hp for what it's actually rated. Don't get me wrong I love Toyota's and the J series motors, more so than BMW. However Toyota performance engines are notorious for being efficient in power, not as efficient with the fuel. It's 2019 all manufacturers gotta play by the rules, unfortunately. Sometimes you gotta evolve with the times, TRD isn't what it used to be, and I'm not gonna hate on something just cause it has the same name as an icon. If y'all are gonna judge Toyota for making the new supra like this just remember Nissan made an oversized Subaru for the GTR, Dodge made the new Dart a fwd sedan, and lets not forget what Mitsubishi has done to the Eclipse. In turn I'm excited for the Mk.V so hold your hate until we have legit reason to shame Toyota. End rant.
Yes it is. B58 is the best gasoline engine for the 2 last years. But always keep in head the 2JZ is 20 yo now so it was 10-15 years ahead of engines of it's time, witch is pretty awesome