I had the privilege of singing this with the Costa Rica Symphony Choir, one of the best times of my life. One of those moments of my life I will treasure forever.
I sang it Caracas, Venezuela in 1992, and it is my favorite choral symphonic movement of the classic music. You cross by different emotions ans it could be sublime, humbled, passionate, glorious. Thanks Genius Beethoven
The tempo is perfect! So many of the performances online are to slow. But the physics of the music tell you the apropriate tempo. You know gravity is 9.81 m/s^2, so you can tell when you're watching slow motion footage. It doesn't feel right. Even if this tempo seems extreme, it's right. Beethoven was extreme.
13:34 - the huge fugue of the et vitam Venturi! This part has been described as climbing the Mount Everest without oxygen.. I can certainly see that comparison, just listening to it makes me short of breath 😂
04:14 - 04:50 Beethoven a genius, he draw with the flaute a melody about the moment when Angel Gabriel annouces to Virgen Maria that Jesus will born. Note that flaute is flying around the solist while they sing Et in carnatus est.. You can imaging the wings of an angel or a cherub flying around to Virgin Maria.Only Beethoven!
Had a chance of sing this beautiful works and was one of our best performance in uct just before covid with alex as majestro with cape town symphony choir
I dont know but l love the altos und sopranos part at 10:18.... And I die literally at the end of the passus et sepultus est passage, so incredible wao :) i never Heard such a beautiful Credo part in a Missa. But with Haydns Nelson and Pauken Messe is Beethovens missa solemnis my Favorite missa of All. And I want to compose a missa solemnis too one Day.
First of all, good luck! I'd like to listen to your Missa when you'll finish it. Second of all, try the "Credo" from Mozart's Mass №15, "Coronation". It's very catchy.
@@elias69420Thank you! I know the Krönungsmesse from Mozart and I love this Mass as Much like other great or short masses (? I dont know the plural) but I am currently composing a missa solemnis for my Best friend. I am at the Gloria part, qui tollis. When I made the Credo part, I will answer to your comment. I will show you then somehow a youtu.be link to this if you want because I use musescore and I upload Videos from there.
@@requieem2802 Awesome! I'm composing a Mass too. It's kind of like a Missa brevis ed solemnis. Short but solemn. I'm working on the parts not in order though. I'm making the Credo, then the Sanctus, then Kyrie, then Agnus Dei, then Gloria. Edit: I have decided I will make the Credo and Sanctus last if I will ever. These texts are pretty tricky to put on music. I'll begin with Kyrie, Gloria, and Agnus Dei. Actually, who cares?
@@requieem2802 I would love to hear your mass. In composing your mass, I'm curious to know if the Gloria is longer or if the Credo is longer since I know in some masses like Haydn's Lord Nelson Mass (which my college choir did a few years ago, but I sadly got sick on the day of the performance) the Gloria is longer than the Credo even though the text in the Credo is longer than the Gloria. Also, how are you splitting the Gloria and the Credo, and I'd like to know if you plan on setting the "et vitam venturi" text, which ends the Credo, to a fugal setting?
@@MrJon92as I wrote 2 Masses, a "test" mass in D-minor (like the Nelson mass, my favorite mass) and a missa brevis in C-major. In my first mass the Gloria is longer than in the second. But I am currently working on a missa solemnis in B-dur and there is the gloria the biggest part, like Mozarts Große Messe C-Moll. In my first mass I split the Gloria until filius Patris, then qui tollis, Quoniam. And the credo is from credo in unum deum until et incarnatus est and et ressurexit (like typical haydn masses). In my second mass the Gloria is shorter, the credo is longer. In my third mass I am currently on the et ressurexit part, I divided the Gloria part like Mozart in his mass in c-minor, but the credo part ist like haydns Credos, although I made a special Crucifixus part. I am really bad in fuges, so I try to avoid them, but I want to make et vitam saeculi fuges, when I will get better at this and maybe I will do it in my third mass, my missa solemnis in B. But It would rather be a fugato. I have to train the fuge in general. But I want to make Masses in haydns style but with my... Touch haha. But the credo of beethovens missa solemnis is more than fantastic and inspirational, so I want to make something like beethovens missa solemnis and haydns late Masses (my favorite masses are nelsonmesse, Paukenmesse, harmoniemesse).
@@mireilleassena My choir performed Missa Solemnis a few months ago, and next Saturday I'm performing as a guest with Oxford Bach Choir :) www.oxfordbachchoir.org/obc-concerts/beethoven-missa-solemnis/
It starts in d minor, so from the first "passus" at m. 173: V6/5, i, V4/3, i6 Then the choir takes over and at 3rd beat of m. 176 is an f# dim7, ie. vii7/iv. Third beat of m. 177 is iv. M. 178 is interesting, begins at i6/4, followed by a semitone down in the bass to V6/5 of V (E major 6/5), which resolves in the second beat by another semitone down in the bass to a V2, followed in the third beat by i6. Neapolitan harmony (in the root position interestingly) is in the m. 179, followed by a fourth inversion of the B flat major chord, in roman numerals bII into VI2. This is resolved via a semitone down in the bass to i6/4 in the third beat of m. 180. Naturally a V7 follows in the next measure with some chromatic passing harmonies, resolved by a Picardy third into D major chord (I) at the "-tus". M. 182 is a beautiful minor ninth chord, V9/IV (D major with an Eb ninth). M. 183 is the resolution - a g minor chord, iv6/4 - the D in the bass doesn't move. M. 184 is an interesting modulation to an f minor 6/4 chord at m. 185. The bass goes from D to Db to C of the 6/4. There is only one tone in the whole orchestra at m. 184 (Db), so it's hard to say, but it might be an augmented sixth chord in the key of f minor, which naturally resolves a semitone down to a 6/4. Anyway all this is followed by C major at m. 186, then a 7th is added in the bass, and it goes through f minor to a 6/4, which seems strange at first, but the next section begins with a G major chord in the key of C major, so the G in the bass is shared and it transitions more smoothly.
Gardiner set a bit faster tempo than other performances, but i think it fits the music. You should think that Beethoven used to set fast tempos in his works. This tempo expresses much more 'Allegro' which means 'brillant' in Italian.
@@Xebec9894 That's not how music works... I dont think Beethoven couldn't, for example, direct the vocals just because he didn't know how to sing. (jftr i know B didn't direct this particular piece, just saying). And yes, in effect, i find it too fast and less dynamic than many versions i've heard.
I’m sure Beethoven would of loved the aggressiveness and the tempo! He has forzando throughout this entire Credo for a reason. Fast with motion, Beethoven loved his quick tempos. As far as the pronunciations, that’s a matter of opinion. Gardiner specifically requests his singers not to sing like English men.
@@TheMaestro2005 About the pronunciation, I think restoring the "Ecclesiastical" one for Latin is always the best possible option, after all that was the one composers were likely taught since at least the Renaissance. About tempos, I find them to be absolutely appropriate, after all Beethoven isn't Bruckner, his way to convey emotions and textual meanings is more direct and straightforward, he always seems to not have to think about the answer he wants to deliver, so I think a faster, more energetic tempo isn't a problem.
Isn’t this one of the most beautiful piece of music ever made 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
IT IS.
Yes, it is. It is the perfect connection between a genius like Beethoven and God through music.
I had the privilege of singing this with the Costa Rica Symphony Choir, one of the best times of my life. One of those moments of my life I will treasure forever.
I sang it Caracas, Venezuela in 1992, and it is my favorite choral symphonic movement of the classic music. You cross by different emotions ans it could be sublime, humbled, passionate, glorious. Thanks Genius Beethoven
The tempo is perfect! So many of the performances online are to slow. But the physics of the music tell you the apropriate tempo. You know gravity is 9.81 m/s^2, so you can tell when you're watching slow motion footage. It doesn't feel right. Even if this tempo seems extreme, it's right. Beethoven was extreme.
13:34 - the huge fugue of the et vitam Venturi! This part has been described as climbing the Mount Everest without oxygen.. I can certainly see that comparison, just listening to it makes me short of breath 😂
04:14 - 04:50 Beethoven a genius, he draw with the flaute a melody about the moment when Angel Gabriel annouces to Virgen Maria that Jesus will born. Note that flaute is flying around the solist while they sing Et in carnatus est.. You can imaging the wings of an angel or a cherub flying around to Virgin Maria.Only Beethoven!
Had a chance of sing this beautiful works and was one of our best performance in uct just before covid with alex as majestro with cape town symphony choir
I dont know but l love the altos und sopranos part at 10:18.... And I die literally at the end of the passus et sepultus est passage, so incredible wao :) i never Heard such a beautiful Credo part in a Missa. But with Haydns Nelson and Pauken Messe is Beethovens missa solemnis my Favorite missa of All. And I want to compose a missa solemnis too one Day.
First of all, good luck! I'd like to listen to your Missa when you'll finish it.
Second of all, try the "Credo" from Mozart's Mass №15, "Coronation". It's very catchy.
@@elias69420Thank you! I know the Krönungsmesse from Mozart and I love this Mass as Much like other great or short masses (? I dont know the plural) but I am currently composing a missa solemnis for my Best friend. I am at the Gloria part, qui tollis. When I made the Credo part, I will answer to your comment. I will show you then somehow a youtu.be link to this if you want because I use musescore and I upload Videos from there.
@@requieem2802 Awesome! I'm composing a Mass too. It's kind of like a Missa brevis ed solemnis. Short but solemn. I'm working on the parts not in order though. I'm making the Credo, then the Sanctus, then Kyrie, then Agnus Dei, then Gloria.
Edit: I have decided I will make the Credo and Sanctus last if I will ever. These texts are pretty tricky to put on music. I'll begin with Kyrie, Gloria, and Agnus Dei.
Actually, who cares?
@@requieem2802 I would love to hear your mass. In composing your mass, I'm curious to know if the Gloria is longer or if the Credo is longer since I know in some masses like Haydn's Lord Nelson Mass (which my college choir did a few years ago, but I sadly got sick on the day of the performance) the Gloria is longer than the Credo even though the text in the Credo is longer than the Gloria. Also, how are you splitting the Gloria and the Credo, and I'd like to know if you plan on setting the "et vitam venturi" text, which ends the Credo, to a fugal setting?
@@MrJon92as I wrote 2 Masses, a "test" mass in D-minor (like the Nelson mass, my favorite mass) and a missa brevis in C-major. In my first mass the Gloria is longer than in the second. But I am currently working on a missa solemnis in B-dur and there is the gloria the biggest part, like Mozarts Große Messe C-Moll. In my first mass I split the Gloria until filius Patris, then qui tollis, Quoniam. And the credo is from credo in unum deum until et incarnatus est and et ressurexit (like typical haydn masses). In my second mass the Gloria is shorter, the credo is longer. In my third mass I am currently on the et ressurexit part, I divided the Gloria part like Mozart in his mass in c-minor, but the credo part ist like haydns Credos, although I made a special Crucifixus part. I am really bad in fuges, so I try to avoid them, but I want to make et vitam saeculi fuges, when I will get better at this and maybe I will do it in my third mass, my missa solemnis in B. But It would rather be a fugato. I have to train the fuge in general. But I want to make Masses in haydns style but with my... Touch haha. But the credo of beethovens missa solemnis is more than fantastic and inspirational, so I want to make something like beethovens missa solemnis and haydns late Masses (my favorite masses are nelsonmesse, Paukenmesse, harmoniemesse).
Wow that is one long credo
7:05-8:46 This is simply too good.
What is your favourite moment in this movement?
For me it's from 11:18 until the end. I prefer parts where the choir is more emphasized.
Et vitam venturi saeculi, AMEN !
😍😍😍😍😍😍😍🇨🇲
@@sinisamarovic it's the same with me
@@mireilleassena My choir performed Missa Solemnis a few months ago, and next Saturday I'm performing as a guest with Oxford Bach Choir :)
www.oxfordbachchoir.org/obc-concerts/beethoven-missa-solemnis/
Et incarnatus... Homo factus est... Et resurrexit.... Et vitam venturi
Finally! YESSSSS!
3:38
very beautiful, captures the begining of a life very well and it also sounds similar to the old gregorian chants
@@peterstudios7147 *That’s right.* 🙂
Oh man...wow that cleared my sinuses
Majestuoso !
It's really fast. It's not weird.
10:08
From where did you find this piano reduction?
That seems to be from Breitkopf EB29, but this impression needs to be verified
Is this the old Gardiner recording?
Tyvm
14:00
15:25 연습
Any idea of the harmonies used in the fragment: 7:03-8:46?
It starts in d minor, so from the first "passus" at m. 173:
V6/5, i, V4/3, i6
Then the choir takes over and at 3rd beat of m. 176 is an f# dim7, ie. vii7/iv.
Third beat of m. 177 is iv.
M. 178 is interesting, begins at i6/4, followed by a semitone down in the bass to V6/5 of V (E major 6/5), which resolves in the second beat by another semitone down in the bass to a V2, followed in the third beat by i6.
Neapolitan harmony (in the root position interestingly) is in the m. 179, followed by a fourth inversion of the B flat major chord, in roman numerals bII into VI2.
This is resolved via a semitone down in the bass to i6/4 in the third beat of m. 180.
Naturally a V7 follows in the next measure with some chromatic passing harmonies, resolved by a Picardy third into D major chord (I) at the "-tus".
M. 182 is a beautiful minor ninth chord, V9/IV (D major with an Eb ninth).
M. 183 is the resolution - a g minor chord, iv6/4 - the D in the bass doesn't move.
M. 184 is an interesting modulation to an f minor 6/4 chord at m. 185. The bass goes from D to Db to C of the 6/4. There is only one tone in the whole orchestra at m. 184 (Db), so it's hard to say, but it might be an augmented sixth chord in the key of f minor, which naturally resolves a semitone down to a 6/4.
Anyway all this is followed by C major at m. 186, then a 7th is added in the bass, and it goes through f minor to a 6/4, which seems strange at first, but the next section begins with a G major chord in the key of C major, so the G in the bass is shared and it transitions more smoothly.
@@dpetrov32 Thank you so much dude!
10:02 11:17
To me this is a bit fast, takes away from build up of the double fugue, otherwise a good performance.
It's "Allegro ma non troppo" not "Molto vivace".
vanderson30198 the score is marked allegro ma non troppo at 0:00
@@colinmurphy2214 Yes, what he's referring is that this is way to fast
Gardiner set a bit faster tempo than other performances, but i think it fits the music. You should think that Beethoven used to set fast tempos in his works. This tempo expresses much more 'Allegro' which means 'brillant' in Italian.
@@louisvalencia5244 I disagree. I think these tempi work perfectly. Some interpretations are far too slow.
Its played like its written in alla breve
Does anyone else see a lot of influence by Händel or is it just me?
Handel was one ofBeethoven's favorite composers and a major influence on this work from what I've heard
If you listen to the Dona Nobis Pacem he almost copies the messiah for a few measures.
@@leonelbat ;)
Too fast and too aggressive for my taste. (And I dislike Italianate Latin pronunciation in works of German composers: Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven.)
Why do you listen it when you don’t like it?
so u dont like what u cant to do it urself what a jerk 🙃
@@Xebec9894 That's not how music works... I dont think Beethoven couldn't, for example, direct the vocals just because he didn't know how to sing. (jftr i know B didn't direct this particular piece, just saying). And yes, in effect, i find it too fast and less dynamic than many versions i've heard.
I’m sure Beethoven would of loved the aggressiveness and the tempo! He has forzando throughout this entire Credo for a reason. Fast with motion, Beethoven loved his quick tempos. As far as the pronunciations, that’s a matter of opinion. Gardiner specifically requests his singers not to sing like English men.
@@TheMaestro2005 About the pronunciation, I think restoring the "Ecclesiastical" one for Latin is always the best possible option, after all that was the one composers were likely taught since at least the Renaissance.
About tempos, I find them to be absolutely appropriate, after all Beethoven isn't Bruckner, his way to convey emotions and textual meanings is more direct and straightforward, he always seems to not have to think about the answer he wants to deliver, so I think a faster, more energetic tempo isn't a problem.
5:27
1:52