Bandsaw Wheel Repair- SNS 381
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- We received a bandsaw wheel that had a worn out bearing journal bore. We'll utilize our manual lathes for this one, boring the hub out and machining and installing a bushing to bring it back to the proper specs. #manualmachining #lathe #bandsaw
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Always amazes me that people continue to send in equipment for repair without fully cleaning it. Some channels can spend an hour or two cleaning equipment at workshpo rates, the customer could save quite bit of cash if they cleaned it themselves.😊
Sometimes in the long run it is cheaper to have the repairer clean the parts
I wonder if you steam clean your cars engine before taking it in for repairs.
@@SirHackaL0t. I have taken pieces off a car or motorcycle engine and have cleaned them before taking them for repair. I wouldn't do it if the whole car was going for a service no. But if people take bits off and then bring them in (or get you to collect) I would anticipate that they would clean them or at leasth get the gross crap off them.
American Pacemaker is a honey of a lathe. Enjoyed that repair.
This would be a good candidate for needle bearings rather than 2 sealed bearings. With 1 long needle bearing it would last a lot longer before needing remachined. Just a thought from an old engineer standpoint.
As a woodworker, I love to see you machinering woodworking tools!
Same!!!! Or drill presses! I have a unhealthy addiction to buying vintage drill presses lol
My first thermal application fractured the hub from too much interference! Great video.
Throwback video. These are the reason I became such a big fan of the channel.
I would think that the outer / major diameter and face would be the proper places to indicate and then bore the center for the sleeve. The blade runs on the outside diameter and that is what needs to run true.
unless my math is really bad, for a two inch part, you'd need about 200 degrees difference to make a half-thousandth...why heating is always more effective than chilling unless you use dry ice or liquid nitrogen. Love watching you work, man.
Yea when I was in carpentry apprenticeship we did the math of a 40° swing in temperature 3/4” in 600’
Really love the one-off problem solving with the manual machining. Still watching the CNC work, but it's the most fun to see Adam directly interacting with the work piece.
These videos are so great. I always feeling like i know maching now. He imparts his wisdom as he works, its a really great to watch.
I learned how to use my 4-jaw chuck by watching your videos.
Was anyone else yelling “Heat the wheel up” right before Adam said he didn’t have his torches at the new shop?😆
40:35 The freezer should shrink that about 1 and a half thou according to my calculations .. well worth the effort really!
Your video was fun to watch. Was there any reason they didn't have a sleeve put through to the other side? It would ensure that both bearings are aligned. It would also provide for better support.
Nice job, I almost always agree with the repairs you complete however in this case I would have done it differently. I would have bored the entire center hub and re-sleeved with new interference fit for both berings making future repairs uniform for both sides. That's the only change to what you did I'd have made. Maybe used liquid nitrogen to insert new interferebce fit bering hub. Ray
Yeah manual maching!!!!
Love theses SNS episodes. Learned a little more about indicating, too!
46:44 .. That is SOOO Handy .. The collets for the mill are expensive .... Nice to be able to use them on the lathe too!!! .. Great idea!
About to watch now, I've been missing the manual Adam videos and teachings!!!
Good idea for the owners of this wheel to have taken the time to think about their concern when parts are failing and the machines are getting older and parts more scarce. Now, as some might say, its better than new and its much stronger than it was with the steel sleeve. Man, the hours sure accumulated on this one, I hope Adam bid them a price vs. by the hour. LOL.
Good work...save the old machines, keep them alive and keep the trade going and going.
Thanks for another video! I really enjoy the repair videos. All these armchair machinists are something else with all the should've/could haves. Job was Done and was fun to watch.
For heating up hubs and the like, you could do with an induction heater.
Great & very informative video, Adam. I'm not a machinist, but I've found your videos very informative on machining metal for repairs for someone who wasn't ever around lathe work, etc. Keep up the great work
Love this kind of content, many thanks Adam
I noticed that the other bearing also had that snap ring " fix " done to it . I think if it was me doing the work , I'd press that other bearing out and make a through sleeve to put both bearings in . That way you know both bearing are concentric . My guess is whoever " fixed" it before ( or the manufacturer ) didn't have the wheel quite straight and it ate that bearing up and made it wobble so it wore the bore .
looks like a upper delta wheel..i just put new bearings in my delta..mine is a 1995 model and the wheels are aluminum,that wheel since it was cast iron is probably older and the part is obsolete..there is a spacer that goes between both bearings inner races
Its amazing (and fortunate) how many things use 6203 bearings. I keep a few of them in the bin, they've come in handy.
This type of content is what I'd like to see more of, manual machining fixing some odd parts Adam giving guiance on how to set things up in a lathe or mill. Don't get me wrong, I like the "new" machine work as well but it's not always that useful in my home shop with manual machines.
Wow, 13 comments, 4 of which were boobybuttwats. That has to be a record!
Nice job, Adam. Enjoy the SNSs. Those Micro 100 cutters are the bee’s knees.
I’m not a machinist, I’m a woodworker and have the Delta 14” bandsaw that that wheel goes on. If I were a machinist I wouldn’t have been able to stop myself from taking off the orange polyurethane belt off and trueing the outside dimension where the belt actually lays so the bearings and the raceway were perfectly true with each other. It would make me nuts not to do that. It’s still making me nuts.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I appreciate you sharing the details in your video. as frustrating as it can be at times, the details you worked through are important. thank you
Nice job. I'd have machined a complete sleeve for the wheel and sunk a bearing in either side. I reckon poor machining in the first place could be what caused the failure. A decent bearing should run for a long time in something spinning at such low rpm. It was shielded too!
Bandsaw wheels are only supported on one side, so it's more likely a bearing failure spinning in the bore. or simply too much pressure on one side and not the other. I'd say they should have used a larger hub/larger bearings it this has been a repeat issue, but then again at this point it's to late to do beyond the manufacturer releasing an updated part.
@@ravenbarsrepairs5594 Something is definitely wrong with the bearing wallowing out like that. My 1945 Delta 14 still has the original Departure shielded bearings in perfect shape. All they needed was cleaning and soaking in new oil. The new bearing would have slid right in with a little heat from a mapp torch.
Good morning ,
you can also heat the bore a little with an electric heat gun, there is no need for a flame at worst, Madame's hairdryer also does the trick.
Love the setup and manual machining with the pacemaker,
Thanks!
what i typically do first is a little research to see if i can find a bearing with a larger OD then it's just bore and install
My first thought, and am surprised that he didn't mention that route; a lot less work for him and a lot less cost for the customer.
That was exactly what I thought. Also he didn't make sure that the rear bearing was concentric or inline with the front bearing which is a critical measurement for alignment.
Assuming the ID would be the same?
@@julianstafford7071 opps meant od
I believe that he wanted it to remain using the standard bearing. I "THINK' that he didn't use another bearing is that the place that uses it as a 'loaner' wheel will be able to look in the parts book and order the correct bearing.
Just got done watching your "Roller Assembly", 4 parts from 11 years ago..So cool, Funny, never heard ya cuss before, Thanx for the great stuff.
Hes been innthe bussiness long enough few things aggravate him enough to make him cuss on camera lol
Damn was that really 11 years ago already. Damn I'm getting old
Thermal dynamics are an amazing science
Can't believe you haven't gotten a torch set up in the new shop yet.
Exactly even a little mapp gas torch would make sense, shame that fancy induction heater for the CNC tooling isn't more versatile 😂
He may need different kind of permits and insurance to have flammables in that shop.
@@kindabluejazz there is more LPG on the back of the Mitsubishi fork truck he bought over a year ago for the new workshop than in a little butane blowlamp.
@@Paul-FrancisB Permits and insurance for having a closed-system LPG fueled vehicle indoors is different than what's needed for fuels and equipment for welding/cutting.
@@kindabluejazz wow I didn't realise regulations were that tight over there that you need a special permit for a blowtorch with 1lb of butane/propane mix in it. There aren't any special licenses for flammable gas storage until you have much larger quantities than would be applicable for welding, obviously HSE guidance needs to be followed (like OSHA for you), however permits only kick in under COMAH or hazardous substance planning regulations when you are talking tonnes of materials.
Imagine if Delta still made tools that didn't have silly wear points built into them. I have a Delta gearbox band saw from the 50's that is still solid as a rock.
I enjoyed watching this episode
Can you imagine buying a tool seeing this video of the machining to make it great. Great work Adam.
A master class, Thanks Adam.
Thnaks for bringning back the tune
51:53 .. Adam doesn't use it much .. But I REALLY like to use Loctite / Henkel Stud and Bearing Retaining Compound, on EVERY bearing and sleeve install. It just gives it that bit more holding power! :)
I seem to remember an episode on one of these machine shop channels where either adding loctite caused difficulty installing an interference fit, or maybe the machinist explained that he doesn't use it because it takes up space so the diameters have to be adjusted. I'm just a voyeur, so maybe I misremember.
I can admire wanting to get the concentricity perfected. But, for anyone questioning it, there will be more play than that in the bearing, even if Adam used an ABEC 9 for some crazy reason.
Very interesting repair,Adam.Thank you.
ive used the freezer method for wheel bearings many times. works like a charm
Nice job!
Great job on the repair. That is probably better than factory.
> might have been a bit more work but i think thru boring the hub and shouldering for both bearings is probably more the type of repair the client would have expected. total concentricity of both bearings with no chance of more wear @ the bearing that wasnt 'wallered' out in the hub, giving them something they could ultimately warranty as o.c.. precision content is one thing, 'proper' re-engineering something that is likely to wear out as left undone is more in keeping with the expense of doing whatever in the first place. liquid nitrogen and an electric hand held heat gun might assist the 'shop' when fitting all sorts of precision bearing, sleeve, and/or race fitments
I suppose he'd need to use a back facing boring bar for that , to enable the shouldering. Not sure if I've seen him use one of those.
Given you are in LESS information than even Abom had your clairvoyant skills and assumptions on what was asked by the client is simply amazing. Liquid Nitrogen is in no way required to fit a bearing and unless you are doing heaps there is no way to justify the cost of keeping it in ANY shop.
Adam, is there anything that says you couldn’t use that ginormous tailstock with a bullnose dead center and that little tapping block you had to press that sleeve in? Just for my own FYI???
"Wollered out" is an accepted engineering term. Like "c hair". Not written down anywhere, but universally understood.
I bet if they just ordered the blank casting and had you machine it correctly, they wouldn't see these failures. Also an electric heat gun on the casting might help expand the casting side. Awesome job.
I know we’re all armchair machinists at this point, but I’ll throw in my $0.02 as well. I’ve made small mandrels before that I hold in the tailstock. Then I can crank my interference fit part in using the tailstock as a press. I’m sure some folks will have a problem with that, but in Adam’s case the part was NOT technically a press fit (he measured the chilled part to be smaller). Instead it was an alignment issue. Using the tailstock helps solve that alignment problem and even gives light pressing capabilities for the very minor press needed.
Why would you think using the tailstock as a light press will draw negative comments? What do you think happens when you reef on a large drill bit……tremendous pressure.
I do that all the time as well, in this case the hub was not supported
It is so interesting how there are so many different ways to skin a cat, my procedure would have been completely different but I would have more than likely came out with the same end goal. Great stuff. Thanks.
do tell?
Yes, please tell. How would you do it?
Thank you for the manual machine vid. Could you also run some sandpaper/emery on the inside to further cleanup and perhaps expand the ID a lil more?
Such great detail! Thank you very much. Guess I need to looking for a wood band saw with a bad bearing housing! Thank you
Adam, you have to bite the bullet and get yourself some liquid nitrogen. The freezer for your snacks isn't going to shrink parts enough at 32 degrees, the liquid nitrogen will get to -320. You can even get a LN2 container at home depot.
You work out the 'cost' of LN per job for a couple of bearings a month and determined that it is absolutely needed? You will be getting a bit over 1 thou on that sized bearing at -15C and another 1-2 if you needed to with some heat on the wheel, if you can't work with that on a basic bearing then you are in the wrong field. The only thing LN typically gets used for on RUclips is performance art.
awesome job mate Love the Video great Chanel
Need to make sure that the file has a handle on it to keep from getting the tang shoved into your hand making a nasty injury!!
Unless it's cloudy in Florida, the sun will have everything it shines on hot enough to burn your hand in short order.
American Pacemaker! Been a minute since we saw it run!
Two thumbs up Adam.
In my mind I always had large lathes tackling big jobs. But here we see a large lathe doing what could be done on a Chinese hobby machine if it wasn't for that big OD. 🙂
I was under the impression that bandsaws needed to have concentricity with outer wheel too? I know nothing, just asking. Seems like a big wobble to me.
Adam, you make enough off of these videos that you should splurge for a dewar of LN 😊. Damn fine video, though. I can't imagine programming a CNC machine to do work like this. There's always room for real machinists in industry.
I think "real" machinists have an advantage when they go to learn CNC as well, a lot of the fundamentals still apply which is why they still teach manual machining in school before moving on to teaching CNC.
@@NickyNiclas I guess what I mean by 'real machinist' is, CNC is used industrially for large scale parts production. A man can be trained to 'tend' a CNC machine that is actually programmed by an engineer, set up and debugged by a master machinist, a Real machinist, who can oversee many machines. Once set up the machine is operated by the less-skilled and lower paid attendant.
@@TheGregstorm That's your assumption, which is incorrect. I do one offs on a slant bed lathe all day, print to part.
@@spikeypineapple552 Sounds like you are a real pro. I don't know a slant bed lathe. Is it a CNC machine?
@@TheGregstorm yes, it's the construction method of "real" production cnc lathes
Very good, thanks.
neat, that exactly like trueing a bike wheel. maybe i should start in that line of work. i love trueing wheels, soo soothing and meditative
It’s cool when tool advertisements do real repairs
Co2 is in a liquid in tanks and will boil at around -60 F at normal air pressure working well to shrink parts. Co2 is readily available at reasonable cost
Dry ice is around -85F too but you have limited time to work with it. I guess past that is liquid nitrogen.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Another way to help with driving in the chilled sleeve would be to make a custom driver which is a close fit inside the sleeve and also has a pilot which is a sliding fit in the ID of the other bearing to keep everything aligned. You would, of course, chill this driver along with the sleeve, which would very much slow down the rate at which it warms up.
Maybe one of those electric heat guns (like used for stripping paint) would be a handy tool for the shop. They can get stuff pretty freakin' hot.
Integza made a jet engine out of one...
Dry ice in acetone or liquid nitrogen will give a lot more shrink.
Agreed, though 100% IPA is safer than acetone with the same result
People who want complain about the cost of machining should watch these videos to see what's involved.
When I was young my dad took me to the machine shop he used to get our truck parts repaired. When I saw the bill I thought how do machine shops stay in business? It was just a one man shop and there were parts strewn everywhere you had to walk down paths to go anywhere. I remember there were several machines running at the same time. 2 lathes, a mill and a band saw. I assume he had automatic stops set. The man was busy! I guess that's how he made ends meet. (A tall thin man named Shorty)
would the part have contracted more using liquid nitrogen?
Great work
Nice video thanks.
...I likely would have initially planned to do exactly what you did. However after 'sleeping on idea' I probably would have decided on no shoulder.
...Prefer snap ring groove for 2 reasons.
- When loaning out wheel, there is no difference between old / temp / new part. hence less 'confusion' and need to remember to store snap ring in the interim.
- If the bearing ever fails in the refurbished wheel, it would be easier to extract if the shoulder wasn't there.
...Thanks for your channel, nice conversational thought train, educational, relaxing and pleasing to watch. Well done.
Interesting that a dealer still repairs stuff. Cool.
So, we accomplished one more delicate job. We know the staff.
You can freeze fit the DIY way with anhydrous IPA and dry ice. The IPA might gel a little, but it works great at transferring heat from the part to the dry ice. You can get parts to -50C in short time, giving plenty of clearance for the fit.
Canned air duster turned upside down. They are filled with saturated R-152a refrigerant and the liquid is very cold.
13:22 That a great thing abut Starrett, you can see a precision tool, that's 50 years old, and think to yourself ... I wish I could buy one of them?? ... AND if you look it up?? ... It's most likely still in their latest catalogue!!! :)
Obviously the PIVOT, on the Starred ID Indicator Tool, is exactly in the centre. Does anyone know if they ever made one that was offset by "two to one" .. Effectively doubling the accuracy?
How about putting a set of pliers in the freezer also? That would keep your hand from speeding up the heat transfer.
14:32 .. Are you sure? the Starrett Indicator part also reverses the highs' and lows. :)
I gotta say, seeing that wobble on the outer part of the wheel while the center is true does not help my OCD 😅
I'd like to see the outside of the wheel running true in both axis. That's where the blade runs. Then true the bore to that. I own 7 or 8 band saws and dialing them in is one of my obsessions.
It also won’t help the bandsaw this will run on.
For getting the sleeve in, couldn't you try to get some support behind the hub and then press it in with the help of the tailstock?
The way you had to true one side to the other makes me think the problem that caused the damage is the way they machined the wheel to begin with. Just makes me wonder if those bearings were ever aligned up to begin with. I don't think it would take much to wear one side and not the other.
To quickly cool small parts, I use freeze spray that is normally used to help troubleshoot electronic circuits. You can easily order it online and it saves a lot of time.
A cheap canned air keyboard duster does the same thing when turned upside down. :) Those canned "air" dusters are actually saturated R-152a refrigerant and it comes out as a VERY cold liquid when the can is inverted. Idk how expensive the special electronics freeze spray costs, but the canned air dusters are very cheap and you can get bulk packs of them at warehouse clubs (Costco etc). I have used them to do all kinds of off-label things including freezing warts off my hand. Cut a Q-tip in half and then put the red straw inside the hollow core of the Q-tip and you've got what's basically identical to the Dr Scholl's wart freezing product. 😎👍
@@mannys9130 I'll keep the air dusters in mind next time I go to COSTCO. The Electronics freeze spray is pretty expensive. I use it because I have it around for electronic circuit troubleshooting. If the air dusters will serve for my electronics uses, I can save a lot of money. I will have to look into what the refrigerant might do to electronic components. Thanks for the tip.
Would a heat gun provide enough expansion?
For the future, you could also use the tailstock to slightly help to press it in 😉🇦🇹🗜️
Just from an armchair machinist, trained at the U of Tube. I would have taken the wheel out and put on a flat table or re grabbed the wheel from the center and maybe get cooled part centered on it with the tailstock? Love learning new stuff from great teachers like Abon at getting close to that 7 decade age.
You need to check out this product called Electro freeze it's like liquid nitrogen in an aerosol you can use that to freezer part then you can use a torch to heat up your cast iron and it probably would have slipped right in
Seems like putting in the effort to reverse the chuck jaws to clamp on the machined reference would have been worth it. No chatter ruining the shoulder, less time spent indicating, and more accurate results during your passes.
It would have been nice to indicate on the outside of the wheel to eliminate as much of the crappy machining it came with from the factory. These are notorious for being out of true and it's murder on the blade,guides, and the operator. I would have trued up the outside diameter as much as possible then put the new bushing all the way through so the new bearing axis was true to the outside of the wheel where it matters. Then it would run smooth as silk
That and probably a missing spacer in between the bearings caused the wear. I'm surprized Adam didn't do it the way you said.
Wow, long time. Good to see you brother.
Great video! I'm glad to see some manual machining. I can't afford a cnc yet, so i still just run the old manual machines. Quick question, though, why wouldn't you just go ahead and bore it all the way through? I understand that the other side still had a good fit, but. For future reasons, wear differences between the two types of materials. It just seems to me to make the sleeve go all the way through. Anyway, thank you for your video. I have learned a lot from you over the years.
A kettle of boiling water will warm a part up by about 80C
A freezer will only cool it by about 40C
Peter can get you.... multi-fixed up.