He has, he also played wing last year when he's been a rover player. He's definitely not the same form he used to be in, but he also now contends with Butters, Rozze and Horne francis.
When wines won it the game was very contested style period,alot of flooding lots of numbers around the ball,it suited him because he is not fast then they introduced the stand rule and 6 6 6 rule,which suits faster game style
@@Oracle550 6-6-6 has been in since 2019 and the stand rule was introduced the year Wines won the brownlow. Wines winning was because (aside from being a symptom of the brownlow voting system) it was the one year where Wines really add spread from contests to his contested ball winning ability
2022 is controversial as Cripps should've been suspended and 2023 is controversial as Neale polled 3 votes for a 20 disposal game over Cameron kicking 7 along with Neale not making the AA team
Neale should've made the AA team he only didn't because of Nathan Buckley trying to get headlines by saying he was underperforming, then he proceeded to get three bog games in a row after it. Idk what merret and serong were doing in there over Neale
@@TotalDramaOwenandNoah Hard disagree, neale was the best midfielder in the team that came second and averaged more clearances than anyone.Serong and merret didnt even make finals. He didnt make it because of nathan buckley, similar to Taranto not making the squad of 40 because of Kane. Dusty was in a similar boat, him and neale get compared to their previous seasons rather than the league as a whole. If merret and serong had so much impact where were they in finals?
@@Tosicc567 that argument is so special. "Serong and Merret didn't even make finals." Fyfe won a brownlow when his team didn't make finals. Cripps won a brownlow when his team didn't make finals. Ablett did, Priddis did, Trent Cotchin did (techinically Jobe Watson did) but his team didn't make finals either.
Regardless, he had a damn good season and was the best midfielder in a side that made the GF. He was always going to get a lot of votes. I remember watching the Sunday Footy Show in the lead up to the count, and 3 of the 4 fellas that gave their Brownlow predictions either had him finishing top 3 or as their dark horse. It's a myth that he didn't deserve that Brownlow
I mean none of them were rigged the umps decide between 3 players each game so with wines and Bont for example just cause Bont has more impact in a different match doesn’t mean wines can’t poll votes out of his own match. I certainly think that the umpires just choose who they see with the ball the most and that is also why I do think they should be allowed to see some stats to make it more of a fair award
2022 definitely was, the VFL had to know Cripps had polled the most votes to overturn his very obviously deserved suspension. Shouldn't have been eligible at all imo, Neale was better that year anyway
1993. Wanganeen beats Greg Williams by one vote. Williams gathered 44 possessions in rd 10 against Melbourne, zero Brownlow votes. Rumour abound that umpire John Russo refused to give Williams votes.
Interesting video Kaleen but I would suggest you're drawing a long bow suggesting any of the "unexpected" Brownlow wins were rigged. No one is more critical of umpires and their very questionable judgement at times than me but I certainly don't for a moment believe their votes are "rigged". Voting of this nature can never be totally fair. It's much harder to regularly catch the umpires' attention in a very good team boasting a lot of good players than it is in a lower ranked one - Premiership teams have very rarely also had the Brownlow winner. The other point of course is the umpires get an entirely different perspective on what's happening than the rest of us. Great little summary and one that certainly gets you thinking - I look forward to the next one.
Bonts “star power” should’ve made him win it, personally I find Bont to be the better player however considering he went missing throughout the season and his team wasn’t very as successful in the regular season wines deserved to win it
I don’t think these were “rigged” as such, but it just feels so unjust that Scott West (a bulldogs great), Matthew Richardson (a Richmond great) and Bontempelli (who I genuinely believe will retire a top 10 player all time) lost Brownlows to fly-by-nighters Woewodin, Cooney and Wines, all of whom have had one or two great seasons max. Same thing with Tom Mitchell and Matt Priddis having Brownlows but Scott Pendlebury and Joel Selwood not, despite the latter two being all-time Collingwood and Geelong greats. Sometimes there is no justice in sport. However, I still have faith that Bont will win it one day.
Well even if not "rigged". Certainly begs the question how umpires really view games and do voting. On top of that there has been very lenient let offs for players who should've or could've been suspended. But known to be high in Brownlow race and let off. Surprise, surprise they won it that year. If gambling is involved or allowed, it'll always leave question marks over intentions and gain for individuals to make calls
The dude rambles on about Wines not having any impact, but clearly dominated in round 23 and getting his team over the line. Not to mention literally having 38 and a goal in the PF smashing.
@@Layupline23 I mean what would he have to do, if 38 disposals and a blazing individual game on a bad day aren't getting you the votes I don't know what is meant to? Were the umps meant to take Bont's overall season and attractive play style into account?
Whoever made this video has literally no idea what he’s talking about “A lot of wines’ disposals aren’t out of the ordinary.” That’s because he’s an absolute bull who rarely gets pinged for HTB. He was consistent at giving clean possessions to others at stoppages rather than spraying it forward for a turnover. You don’t need to do a 3 bounce clearance to have impact.
Priddis getting left out of the AA team was typical blind spots to interstate players from the panel. Priddis averaging 29 possessions 8 tackles and half a goal a game is insane. Give him a bit more respect than that
You were quite harsh on Priddis. His handballs were not standard. He always did a great job of releasing the ball to others in open space. which made them look good. It was good to see an inside mid get the medal they deserve for doing the grunt work
...so you do a rigged brownlow medal video and leave out Greg Williams in 1993...... Diesel was hated by the umps for the way he treated them but his talent was undeniable. He already had 2 brownlow medals but was runner up in 1993 to Gavin wanganeen. The controversy though happened in the final round where he got something like 40 disposals BACK THEN and didn't poll a vote and one of the umpires admitted to diesel years later he wanted to give him votes but was denied by the other more senior umpire who hated diesel. This is LITERALLY a rigged brownlow result. All the others you mentioned all had the same one theme.... the winners of their year's brownlow didn't have team mates to steal votes off them and they pipped the line. In 2000 essendon had a champion team taking votes, Melbourne had woewodin In 2008 Geelong had ablett, bartel, Corey, enright... dogs had Cooney 2021 who was around wines to take votes? Dogs and demons had plenty In 2014 who was around priddus to take votes? Hawks, swans, freo had plenty. The voting wasn't rigged it's simply a case of being the best player in enough games which is easy to do if you're a step above your team mates in those years.
Hell, I'd even say umps punishing a player for being an a hole to them is fine. It is best and fairest after all, not just best. Plenty of players have lost best and fairest votes within their own teams because they are awful to work with.
@@LlywellynOBrien is it though? If a player abused an umpire 10 years ago and never again and that ump carries that grudge for the rest of his career does that justify not giving votes a decade later? Diesel was targeted by players and while he also gave it back felt he wasn't looked after by the umps hence his disdain for them. Unless he abused the ump in that specific 40 disposal final game then i'd agree he shouldn't get votes in that game but from all accounts Diesel didn't abuse the umps that day as he had a field day. I do see your point though about other reasons people do or dont get votes. I play local footy and one game years ago i killed it on the field, got over 35 touches and 3 goals as a midfielder and after the game the ump spoke to me at the bar and said "you killed it today, i gave you 2 votes" i thanked him and asked who got the 3 votes out of curiosity and it was a player on my team who barely touched it at all.....but he and the ump knew each other for years, were drinking buddies and played cricket together in the off season....
Ollie Wines won a Brownlow off the back of a stellar season, you’re a flog if you think for a moment that Wines didn’t earn the Brownlow. He was the favourite……. As for Wines getting 32 possessions and getting 2 votes and Bontempelli getting no votes as a midfielder getting only 15 possessions……. seems very reasonable to any right minded person. Including any final is totally moot as the Brownlow votes are not counted in finals.
I'm totally with you on this one man. Saying its rigged when the umpires on ground clearly thought Wines had a bigger impact on the games, and stats backing it up as well. If he played for a Vic club there would be no complaints.
They do. There are multiple other awards that are given through a panel of voters. But I agree, they should maybe change the dynamic of the Brownlow, as it is considered the most prestigious individual award in the game.
One that was missed was Chris Judd's 2010 Brownlow. Dane Swan hard carried Collingwood's midfield to minor premiers and a premiership that year. Averaged 31.5 disposals with 19.4 average kicks. 0.9 goal average a game including finals. Judd standing out in an average Carlton team i guess and umpires not liking Dane Swan. Swan won AFL Players Association award 2010.
iirc Judd should have won the previous year but yea thats a good example of rigged same as Williams taking the 94 medal over Matera when his previous year was better
You just can't look at statistics and say someone else should win. The award is for the best and fairest you can measure performance but you cant measure fairness that's a subjective assessment of the umpire.
At last, someone calling it right. For all the talk about who should have won it or had more disposals etc, generally the guy that wins it is a fair player i.e. eyes for the ball, playmaker, skilful use of the ball, not known for underhand tactics, etc., and importantly doesn’t backchat the umpires. There will be the occasional exception to the above, but it generally holds true.
Fairness is measured by suspension, and everyone watching can measure it too. If fairness has more impact than that what a stupid medal and the mvp trumps it
Bont didn’t deserve it at all. Played terribly the last 4 weeks. Wines also tied dusty for the most votes ever and also polled in the most games ever. Wines 100% deserves it. Just doesn’t get recognition because he plays for a non Victorian team
I don't know about the Brownlow being rigged, but I was dissappointed for Bont when he was knocked off by Ollie. I hope Bont gets one, he is the best player I've seen since Judd or Ablett Jun. I'm a Saint, and unfortunately we took Jack Billings ahead of Bont in the draft. Woops!
Cant really say Priddis was rigged what a Joke. Had an amazing year. 72 more clearance than anyone else averaged 29 disposal. And I forgot he also holds the AFL record for tackles.
Agreed. Stiff to say it was rigged when Priddis almost snatched back to back brownlow’s if i remember correctly 🤔 just shows he backed up his season form helping lead WCE in to the GF the next season If anything that 2015 brownlow was rigged, Fyfe was injured and missed a handful of games toward the seasons end🤣
Priddis was the leading disposal getter that year. Umpires really like players who handball and share around disposals, as opposed to taking long runs and shots on goal like Ablett Snr. He also managed to tackle whilst virtually never giving away frees. Well deserved.
Why even mention finals ? Saying Priddis's team didn't even make finals thebyear he won yet saying Ablett the same year was a certainty if not injured while playing for the Suns who never have is strange
The most BS Brownlow I can remember was Keith Grieg's first Brownlow in 1973. He wasn't even mentioned as a possible winner prior to the count. Kevin Bartlett was the overwhelming favourite pre-count, but the umpires didn't give him the votes he deserved. I remember there were several Richmond officials making statements to the media after the count, saying Bartlett was robbed, and it's hard to disagree with them.
I watched Keith Grieg play one day at Arden St. He was absolutely amazing, no one could touch him, he always had so much time, great kicking skills and fast. He was always considered one of the fairest players. Maybe Hungry was better that year, he was always great when I saw him play, but he did a lot of good players around him, that would have taken some votes off him.
@@mikaham681 Fair point. I will make the point that Keith Grieg played in the same team as Shimma, Barry Davis, Doug Wade, Sam Kekovich, and John Rantall among others. That was the time of the 10 year rule, whereby, if you had 10 years at a club you could go to another club without any transfer fee. Keith Grieg was a very good player, but Bartlett was getting 35 possesions pretty much every week. In my opinion, Grieg deserved his second Brownlow way more than his first. And BTW, I'm a Geelong supporter, so I have no dog in this fight.
Neale played in more wins and was best on in most of them. Umpires look for inside mids because it's the easiest for them to see and he's pretty much the best for that sort of thing. If the dogs had more wins Bont probs would've won it
2001 Brownlow, McLeod 38 touches and a goal and didn’t get a single vote, Akermanis later said in an interview “I stole the Brownlow from Andrew McLeod”.
People forget how much it is based on what umpires see, if you think about it when a player kicks 50 meters it goes to the next umpire. They dont get the topdown view we get, so thats probably why inside mids that are crazy clean with handballs get noticed a lot. Neale is pretty much the perfect example. I dont think any brownlow has been won undeservedly, every player thats won one has a good case for it. Wins are also super important, something bont sadly had a lack of last year which would've cost him a lot. Some players just dont get votes, Josh Dunkley and Ads for some reason dont tend to poll. The stars have to align with being best on in wins with a team that gets enough wins, also a bit of luck with how the other teams mids played. Neale last year basically had the god run of BOG games with tons of wins, yes he got a 3 vote game where he shouldn't have. People forget he also got two games he was best on and only got 1 vote and 2 votes, it always evens out. As much as I was hoping for Bont to finally win one he had too much downtime with not enough wins, whilst Neale was more consistent and won more games. Similar to the 2021 season with Wines and Bont. The Bont is far more impactful than any player in the comp, issue is he has some down games because of how hard he carries each year he cant do it for an entire season. Praying he has a nuts year this year and makes finals because we all want to see bont playing finals footy again
Nah mate. Cripps should've been ineligible. Overturning that suspension was bogus and everybody knows it. Chris Grant missed out on a Brownlow the same way. He understoid why he didn't deserve the prize. Cripps actions were not thise of the "fairest" player in the comp.
Not a Collingwood fan but Cripps didn’t deserve it. Polled 3 votes in multiple losing games towards the end of the season when he clearly wasn’t the most impactful on ground (see crows v Carlton for example)
i know it's probably just for clickbait but calling these rigged is really stupid. the wines v bont one in particular is just a fundamental misunderstanding of what the brownlow is (and yes it's flawed and bont is a better player, but that doesn't make it rigged)
Bont is a better player yes. But that's the misconception with the Brownlow. The better player in that particular season will win it, regardless of whether they're a "star" or not
The trouble with this entire vid is you just fundamentally ignore how the Brownlow works. All of the complexities of super-star team mates, positioning, match-ups, tagging etc. are ignored in favour of simple analysis of a player's vibe, stats and impact at the end of the year. Maybe there should be an MVP award, but that is just not what the Brownlow is.
Cooney's Charlie was a joke. Buddy Franklin was the most exciting and dominant player all year. Maybe he copped a suspension....? I cannot remember. Scott Wynd winning in 1992 over Jason Dunstall who had kicked 145 goals in a season is insanity. 145 goals in a season wins a Brownlow...no questions asked. Brad Hardie's win in 1985 was another ridiculous one. Judd's second was a laugh too.
Its actually changed my mind for how i thought the 2021 brownlow went, i actually thought bont deserved that but now after researching a bit on stats and efficiency, i think wines deserved it
Wines deserved his Brownlow ur delusional talking about finals even though finals aren’t counted towards the Brownlow wines outperformed bont final round and so he won the Brownlow
I still have no idea why the umpires thought Bartel deserved more votes than Ablett. That shoulda been his, too. And bear in mind he was doing all of his work against blokes like a prime Dane Swan.
I reckon in his early days, Gazza didn't have too many ump friends as he did complain a lot on the field. Kevin Bartlett had the same problem all his playing career. The umps for some reason didn't like him. He was one of the shortest priced favourites ever to win the 1974 Brownlow but came a distant 3rd to Keith Greig...who the umps loved.
Wines is not the most damaging player but he was consistently best on ground in 2021 and you cannot say it was rigged when he recorded the equal most votes in Brownlow history
Round 10 1993: Carlton vs Demons: Greg Williams 44 disposals and 1 goal. Received no brownlow votes for this game. Lost the 1993 Brownlow Medal by 1 vote. 10 04 2024
Not sure how you equate Wines and Priddis. Wines won with the equal most votes in brownlow history, and his team finished second on the ladder. Yes, you mention he couldn't lead them to a premiership, but you don't get votes in finals. Wines was the favourite going into the count - which was not the case for Priddis. They're not remotely similar.
2023 was rigged, nick daicos getting over 35 disposals and having a massive impact in most games but no votes while lachie Neale having 20 disposals every game somehow getting 3 votes is very rigged
Neale getting 3 votes in that 20 possession game was ridiculous, but there were games where he was best on by a mile and only polled 1 or 2. Neale averaged 26, same as 2020 when he won. Daicos probably would’ve won if he didn’t get injured.
Nearly all brownlows are rigged, the majority in history are midfielders, especially the last 30 years. Sure a lot of the awards are deserved but I think more players in other positions could easily win if umpires look at true impact and importance in games
Mate you litteraly watch like on afl game from each player ollie wines was a star in 2021 it dosent matter if you do all this cool and showie stuff Bont is a very good player but he also got no comption back then so go watch football
Yeh I’m an Eagles guy and I am friendly when it comes to Freo now, but I was an absolute dick at the time in terms of bias lol. I damn well knew that in 2014… that the Pridda Brownlow was more of an umpire favourite then the actual legit worthy winner. So it wasn’t the greatest robbing in history but ahhh… very lucky (I’m being generous 😂)
I think in that year (2014), Freo lost the qualifying final, home semi final (out in straight sets)… Eagles didn’t make the 8 and Pridda somehow won the Brownlow. I’m very sympathetic now to Dockers, but back then to say I enjoyed trolling was an understatement 😂.
@@gus-qj2mp I disagree. It was a robbery as no one expected him to win it. Hence the commentary of every AFL professional and media personality saying where did that come from.
@@BESTBeforeExpiration "No one expected it" Except for the AFL Brownlow predictor who had him winning and the bookies who had him at 3rd lowest odds....
@@gus-qj2mp Yeah well obviously you are pretty inexperienced when it comes to understanding AFL brownlows. the bookies had him at a range of third to tenth, and as I said no-one expected it. you are obviously a brisbane fanboy. He is the no.1 unexpected of all time chap. Anyway moving on
@@BESTBeforeExpiration Yet was predicted to win by the AFL hahahah, and no there have been a lot more winners at much longer odds. So none of what youre saying makes sense.
Bont didn’t deserve it at all. Played terribly the last 4 weeks. Wines also tied dusty for the most votes ever and also polled in the most games ever. Wines 100% deserves it. Just doesn’t get recognition because he plays for a non Victorian team
Bont didn’t deserve it at all. Played terribly the last 4 weeks. Wines also tied dusty for the most votes ever and also polled in the most games ever. Wines 100% deserves it. Just doesn’t get recognition because he plays for a non Victorian team
What a load of sh1t. Wines was a beast in 2021, absolutely dominated in the middle that year. You don't accidentally get 36 Brownlow votes 🙄 Also, that wasn't a dangerous tackle on Ablett by todays standard let alone back then. It was a completely fair tackle.
People saying Cripps was the most rigged like are you kidding yourself, blame the afl for there shit rebuttal you wanna see rigged look up the 93 Brownlow
Not a bad video but the recording could be less scripted (monotone) as for the contents "Rigged" is not the right word but I respect the YT grift. Many of your points are easy to deconstruct & often hold subjective opinions... Not objective POV. I'm a PA supporter so putting Ollie in your thumb was interesting & going after him in a season where he got 44 disposals in 1 game is distasteful, I'd like to have a back & forth on why Bont was 1point behind not 5... Any who.. interesting take on the others... NB Any one that is suspended doesn't deserve the "Best & Fairest" & if you need that explained.. then I'm clearly giving you too much credit to your intelligence... Most BM are fine over the years, Melb teams always get proped up... We shall see how it goes this year.. I appreciate the time & effort that goes into a video so kutos
These weren't rigged, a "star" player in a team of average players stands out a lot more to the umpires voting. Better performing teams, or teams with multiple "stars" tend to steal each others votes through the season. There are plenty of rigged brownlows though, Like Adam Goodes, not once but TWICE. Literally the most overrated player in history, never had a hard ball get in his entire career, despite being the biggest heaviest guy on the field he was a sleazy little seagull waiting for easy handballs metres away from the play, and he very rarely got tackled, because he threw it away and sold teammates with hospital passes every time someone came within 5 metres of him. THAT is why everyone booed him, not racism as that flog claimed. Even Sydney fans hated him. Absolute unit of a man, and athletic AF, but played like he was scared of the ball and loved to act for free kicks.
I don't agree. I guess that every man and his dog will have a say on who performed well and who was best on the ground for a particular match - this includes the spectator, the commentator, the reporter - and the umpire. Curious to note that when the two newspapers - Herald Sun and The Age cast their votes for a match they do NOT always agree. I am an Adam Goodes fan but when he won his Brownlow he polled three votes in the final round (if memory serves me correctly) but he wasn't in the top 5 for best on the ground that day - in my humble opinion. Anyway, I don't believe the voting is rigged - although the counting may have been although since the date and match have been added to the voting ticket it has been impossible to rig a grand finish (unlike the 1970 Brownlow count - yes, I remember that one - the year Peter Bedford won). So, people can argue from now until doomsday as to who might have won or been the best but the Brownlow is for the umpires to decide, no one else, so leave it at that.
And you haven't mentioned Patrick Cripps' completely rigged Brownlow?!!!! It has been by far the worst. He shouldn't have been playing that last game where he got 3 votes....Carlton's lawyers should be getting the Brownlow for that year. Lachie Neale should now be a triple Brownlow medalist, although I don't think he deserved his 2023 medal.
Surely it's not just me but Ollie Wines has had a really quiet few years after winning his brownlow
He has, he also played wing last year when he's been a rover player. He's definitely not the same form he used to be in, but he also now contends with Butters, Rozze and Horne francis.
When wines won it the game was very contested style period,alot of flooding lots of numbers around the ball,it suited him because he is not fast then they introduced the stand rule and 6 6 6 rule,which suits faster game style
Paddys been quiet since the brownlow, tom mitchells been quiet and fyfes been in a god damn coma since brownlow
I forgot he even won it 😂
@@Oracle550 6-6-6 has been in since 2019 and the stand rule was introduced the year Wines won the brownlow. Wines winning was because (aside from being a symptom of the brownlow voting system) it was the one year where Wines really add spread from contests to his contested ball winning ability
2022 is controversial as Cripps should've been suspended and 2023 is controversial as Neale polled 3 votes for a 20 disposal game over Cameron kicking 7 along with Neale not making the AA team
Neale should've made the AA team he only didn't because of Nathan Buckley trying to get headlines by saying he was underperforming, then he proceeded to get three bog games in a row after it. Idk what merret and serong were doing in there over Neale
@@Tosicc567 merret and serong were way more consistent and impactful to their teams than neale was. selection justified.
@@TotalDramaOwenandNoah Hard disagree, neale was the best midfielder in the team that came second and averaged more clearances than anyone.Serong and merret didnt even make finals. He didnt make it because of nathan buckley, similar to Taranto not making the squad of 40 because of Kane. Dusty was in a similar boat, him and neale get compared to their previous seasons rather than the league as a whole. If merret and serong had so much impact where were they in finals?
@@Tosicc567 that argument is so special. "Serong and Merret didn't even make finals." Fyfe won a brownlow when his team didn't make finals. Cripps won a brownlow when his team didn't make finals. Ablett did, Priddis did, Trent Cotchin did (techinically Jobe Watson did) but his team didn't make finals either.
@@Tosicc567 i dont disagree considering neale got 3 votes for a 20 disposal game which really says enough about the voting that year
I put $5 on woewodin in round 5 at 250 to 1. He was one of the first players to bleach his hair and stood out because of that.
Regardless, he had a damn good season and was the best midfielder in a side that made the GF. He was always going to get a lot of votes.
I remember watching the Sunday Footy Show in the lead up to the count, and 3 of the 4 fellas that gave their Brownlow predictions either had him finishing top 3 or as their dark horse.
It's a myth that he didn't deserve that Brownlow
I mean none of them were rigged the umps decide between 3 players each game so with wines and Bont for example just cause Bont has more impact in a different match doesn’t mean wines can’t poll votes out of his own match. I certainly think that the umpires just choose who they see with the ball the most and that is also why I do think they should be allowed to see some stats to make it more of a fair award
2022 definitely was, the VFL had to know Cripps had polled the most votes to overturn his very obviously deserved suspension. Shouldn't have been eligible at all imo, Neale was better that year anyway
@@doylersafl8728 imo, Touk Miller should have won
1993. Wanganeen beats Greg Williams by one vote. Williams gathered 44 possessions in rd 10 against Melbourne, zero Brownlow votes. Rumour abound that umpire John Russo refused to give Williams votes.
Interesting video Kaleen but I would suggest you're drawing a long bow suggesting any of the "unexpected" Brownlow wins were rigged. No one is more critical of umpires and their very questionable judgement at times than me but I certainly don't for a moment believe their votes are "rigged". Voting of this nature can never be totally fair. It's much harder to regularly catch the umpires' attention in a very good team boasting a lot of good players than it is in a lower ranked one - Premiership teams have very rarely also had the Brownlow winner. The other point of course is the umpires get an entirely different perspective on what's happening than the rest of us.
Great little summary and one that certainly gets you thinking - I look forward to the next one.
Agreed. Very strange to say 2021 was rigged, but not back it up with any data, and just rambling on about "impact" which was false
Bonts “star power” should’ve made him win it, personally I find Bont to be the better player however considering he went missing throughout the season and his team wasn’t very as successful in the regular season wines deserved to win it
I don't think the dude knows how the brownlow works. It's fine
Even u dont know what you’re saying
Geoff Raines 0 votes in the 1980 brownlow count after going in as the overwhelming favourite
chol glazer and change your pfp to chol in hawks jumper
I don’t think these were “rigged” as such, but it just feels so unjust that Scott West (a bulldogs great), Matthew Richardson (a Richmond great) and Bontempelli (who I genuinely believe will retire a top 10 player all time) lost Brownlows to fly-by-nighters Woewodin, Cooney and Wines, all of whom have had one or two great seasons max. Same thing with Tom Mitchell and Matt Priddis having Brownlows but Scott Pendlebury and Joel Selwood not, despite the latter two being all-time Collingwood and Geelong greats. Sometimes there is no justice in sport. However, I still have faith that Bont will win it one day.
Well even if not "rigged". Certainly begs the question how umpires really view games and do voting. On top of that there has been very lenient let offs for players who should've or could've been suspended. But known to be high in Brownlow race and let off. Surprise, surprise they won it that year.
If gambling is involved or allowed, it'll always leave question marks over intentions and gain for individuals to make calls
Lol. Those "fly-by-nighters" have played nearly 700 games between them
@@jimmyriddle5246all the more reason they should be better known.
@@MrCartoonlife anyone that follows footy knows them.
@@jimmyriddle5246 just coz he’s your mate doesn’t mean everyone else knows him
Barry Mitchell 1991.. Most disposals in the entire league .. Won the Swans B&F and AA selection .. 1 vote in the Brownlow ...
Bontempelli had a very quiet end to the season. Wines did not. That's why he won.
Yes
The dude rambles on about Wines not having any impact, but clearly dominated in round 23 and getting his team over the line. Not to mention literally having 38 and a goal in the PF smashing.
😂😂😂😂
@@Layupline23 I mean what would he have to do, if 38 disposals and a blazing individual game on a bad day aren't getting you the votes I don't know what is meant to?
Were the umps meant to take Bont's overall season and attractive play style into account?
@@LlywellynOBrien I don’t think they do Brownlow votes for finals
Very strange to say Wines didn't impact games when it's based on what the umpires saw.
Whoever made this video has literally no idea what he’s talking about “A lot of wines’ disposals aren’t out of the ordinary.” That’s because he’s an absolute bull who rarely gets pinged for HTB. He was consistent at giving clean possessions to others at stoppages rather than spraying it forward for a turnover.
You don’t need to do a 3 bounce clearance to have impact.
Priddis getting left out of the AA team was typical blind spots to interstate players from the panel. Priddis averaging 29 possessions 8 tackles and half a goal a game is insane. Give him a bit more respect than that
You were quite harsh on Priddis. His handballs were not standard. He always did a great job of releasing the ball to others in open space. which made them look good. It was good to see an inside mid get the medal they deserve for doing the grunt work
Yup - very shallow analysis. Pretty much saying you need to be a flashy player to win it.
This might say more about the AA team than the Brownlow.
...so you do a rigged brownlow medal video and leave out Greg Williams in 1993......
Diesel was hated by the umps for the way he treated them but his talent was undeniable. He already had 2 brownlow medals but was runner up in 1993 to Gavin wanganeen.
The controversy though happened in the final round where he got something like 40 disposals BACK THEN and didn't poll a vote and one of the umpires admitted to diesel years later he wanted to give him votes but was denied by the other more senior umpire who hated diesel.
This is LITERALLY a rigged brownlow result.
All the others you mentioned all had the same one theme.... the winners of their year's brownlow didn't have team mates to steal votes off them and they pipped the line.
In 2000 essendon had a champion team taking votes, Melbourne had woewodin
In 2008 Geelong had ablett, bartel, Corey, enright... dogs had Cooney
2021 who was around wines to take votes? Dogs and demons had plenty
In 2014 who was around priddus to take votes? Hawks, swans, freo had plenty.
The voting wasn't rigged it's simply a case of being the best player in enough games which is easy to do if you're a step above your team mates in those years.
Hell, I'd even say umps punishing a player for being an a hole to them is fine. It is best and fairest after all, not just best. Plenty of players have lost best and fairest votes within their own teams because they are awful to work with.
@@LlywellynOBrien is it though?
If a player abused an umpire 10 years ago and never again and that ump carries that grudge for the rest of his career does that justify not giving votes a decade later?
Diesel was targeted by players and while he also gave it back felt he wasn't looked after by the umps hence his disdain for them.
Unless he abused the ump in that specific 40 disposal final game then i'd agree he shouldn't get votes in that game but from all accounts Diesel didn't abuse the umps that day as he had a field day.
I do see your point though about other reasons people do or dont get votes. I play local footy and one game years ago i killed it on the field, got over 35 touches and 3 goals as a midfielder and after the game the ump spoke to me at the bar and said "you killed it today, i gave you 2 votes" i thanked him and asked who got the 3 votes out of curiosity and it was a player on my team who barely touched it at all.....but he and the ump knew each other for years, were drinking buddies and played cricket together in the off season....
Ollie Wines won a Brownlow off the back of a stellar season, you’re a flog if you think for a moment that Wines didn’t earn the Brownlow. He was the favourite……. As for Wines getting 32 possessions and getting 2 votes and Bontempelli getting no votes as a midfielder getting only 15 possessions……. seems very reasonable to any right minded person. Including any final is totally moot as the Brownlow votes are not counted in finals.
I'm totally with you on this one man. Saying its rigged when the umpires on ground clearly thought Wines had a bigger impact on the games, and stats backing it up as well. If he played for a Vic club there would be no complaints.
all these problems can be fixed if they just have a panel give out the votes instead of the umpires
They do. There are multiple other awards that are given through a panel of voters. But I agree, they should maybe change the dynamic of the Brownlow, as it is considered the most prestigious individual award in the game.
One that was missed was Chris Judd's 2010 Brownlow. Dane Swan hard carried Collingwood's midfield to minor premiers and a premiership that year. Averaged 31.5 disposals with 19.4 average kicks. 0.9 goal average a game including finals. Judd standing out in an average Carlton team i guess and umpires not liking Dane Swan. Swan won AFL Players Association award 2010.
iirc Judd should have won the previous year
but yea thats a good example of rigged
same as Williams taking the 94 medal over Matera when his previous year was better
@@omgnumbers9944 Judd probably should've won 2011 and Swan should've won 2010. i guess it managed to even out there
@@omgnumbers9944 It's corruption. There should be a broader collective of voters for the medal.
1993 when Greg Williams was robbed of a 1 billion percent brownlow.
You just can't look at statistics and say someone else should win. The award is for the best and fairest you can measure performance but you cant measure fairness that's a subjective assessment of the umpire.
At last, someone calling it right. For all the talk about who should have won it or had more disposals etc, generally the guy that wins it is a fair player i.e. eyes for the ball, playmaker, skilful use of the ball, not known for underhand tactics, etc., and importantly doesn’t backchat the umpires.
There will be the occasional exception to the above, but it generally holds true.
Fairness is measured by suspension, and everyone watching can measure it too. If fairness has more impact than that what a stupid medal and the mvp trumps it
As a Bulldogs fan Bont has been robbed 2 times brownlow, he should be a two times brownlow medalist
what was the other year
Robbed by his team last year for not getting enough wins
Bont didn’t deserve it at all. Played terribly the last 4 weeks. Wines also tied dusty for the most votes ever and also polled in the most games ever. Wines 100% deserves it. Just doesn’t get recognition because he plays for a non Victorian team
In 2023 it should’ve been bont, pettracs,or Nick daicos
"Bont didn't dsserve it" is where everyone will start ignoring you @samuelbartel3104
So you’re saying Ollie wines didn’t deserve the Brownlow because he didn’t look flashy enough?
Yup sounds like it. Equal most votes in history, favourite going in - apparently still not enough because Bont looks flashier.
I don't know about the Brownlow being rigged, but I was dissappointed for Bont when he was knocked off by Ollie. I hope Bont gets one, he is the best player I've seen since Judd or Ablett Jun.
I'm a Saint, and unfortunately we took Jack Billings ahead of Bont in the draft. Woops!
Brother how did you come to the conclusion Wines didn't deserve it lmao.
Cant really say Priddis was rigged what a Joke. Had an amazing year. 72 more clearance than anyone else averaged 29 disposal. And I forgot he also holds the AFL record for tackles.
Yeah this was a terrible take
Hey bro 100 % priddis shouldn't have been in the video he was a beast for tackling
Agreed. Stiff to say it was rigged when Priddis almost snatched back to back brownlow’s if i remember correctly 🤔 just shows he backed up his season form helping lead WCE in to the GF the next season
If anything that 2015 brownlow was rigged, Fyfe was injured and missed a handful of games toward the seasons end🤣
90 percent of the takes here are garbage mate don't worry
Yeah that’s what I reckon. And it’s not rigged that the other 2 favourites were either injured or suspended
Priddis was the leading disposal getter that year. Umpires really like players who handball and share around disposals, as opposed to taking long runs and shots on goal like Ablett Snr. He also managed to tackle whilst virtually never giving away frees. Well deserved.
That’s not Judd in 2010.
A bit rude to do Brownlow robberies cause each game is different and it’s impossible to say there was robberies
Why even mention finals ? Saying Priddis's team didn't even make finals thebyear he won yet saying Ablett the same year was a certainty if not injured while playing for the Suns who never have is strange
I hope you left out 2022 for a part 2
I've always thought it's unfair whenever a player is suspended that they're ineligible for the Brownlow.
ollie wines was clear that season, bont did nothing end of the season.
The most BS Brownlow I can remember was Keith Grieg's first Brownlow in 1973. He wasn't even mentioned as a possible winner prior to the count. Kevin Bartlett was the overwhelming favourite pre-count, but the umpires didn't give him the votes he deserved. I remember there were several Richmond officials making statements to the media after the count, saying Bartlett was robbed, and it's hard to disagree with them.
I watched Keith Grieg play one day at Arden St. He was absolutely amazing, no one could touch him, he always had so much time, great kicking skills and fast. He was always considered one of the fairest players. Maybe Hungry was better that year, he was always great when I saw him play, but he did a lot of good players around him, that would have taken some votes off him.
@@mikaham681 Fair point. I will make the point that Keith Grieg played in the same team as Shimma, Barry Davis, Doug Wade, Sam Kekovich, and John Rantall among others. That was the time of the 10 year rule, whereby, if you had 10 years at a club you could go to another club without any transfer fee. Keith Grieg was a very good player, but Bartlett was getting 35 possesions pretty much every week.
In my opinion, Grieg deserved his second Brownlow way more than his first. And BTW, I'm a Geelong supporter, so I have no dog in this fight.
Bont robbed 2023 how did Neale win
*Daicos
Neale played in more wins and was best on in most of them. Umpires look for inside mids because it's the easiest for them to see and he's pretty much the best for that sort of thing. If the dogs had more wins Bont probs would've won it
@@Tosicc567 this is a bad take but a truthful take. I don't agree with the approach but you're not wrong.
@@Sauraus1 better than Neale, Bont or both???😂
@@Sauraus1 🤣🤣🤣 get ya hand off it!
2001 Brownlow, McLeod 38 touches and a goal and didn’t get a single vote, Akermanis later said in an interview “I stole the Brownlow from Andrew McLeod”.
Istg if I see Cripps on here😂😂😂
need another one for 2024 lmao 😂
All the whinging about Cripps and Carlton in particular lately has been fantastic. So good to be hated and relevant again 🔵🔵🔵
always nice when the umpires back ya isn’t it
‘Relevant’ lol how’d that turn out for you this season??
People forget how much it is based on what umpires see, if you think about it when a player kicks 50 meters it goes to the next umpire. They dont get the topdown view we get, so thats probably why inside mids that are crazy clean with handballs get noticed a lot. Neale is pretty much the perfect example. I dont think any brownlow has been won undeservedly, every player thats won one has a good case for it. Wins are also super important, something bont sadly had a lack of last year which would've cost him a lot. Some players just dont get votes, Josh Dunkley and Ads for some reason dont tend to poll. The stars have to align with being best on in wins with a team that gets enough wins, also a bit of luck with how the other teams mids played. Neale last year basically had the god run of BOG games with tons of wins, yes he got a 3 vote game where he shouldn't have. People forget he also got two games he was best on and only got 1 vote and 2 votes, it always evens out. As much as I was hoping for Bont to finally win one he had too much downtime with not enough wins, whilst Neale was more consistent and won more games. Similar to the 2021 season with Wines and Bont. The Bont is far more impactful than any player in the comp, issue is he has some down games because of how hard he carries each year he cant do it for an entire season. Praying he has a nuts year this year and makes finals because we all want to see bont playing finals footy again
Bont getting robbed the last 3 years tells you how rigged it is
Only Collingwood supporters says Cripps Brownlow was rigged just jealous he’s a gun
Nah mate. Cripps should've been ineligible. Overturning that suspension was bogus and everybody knows it. Chris Grant missed out on a Brownlow the same way. He understoid why he didn't deserve the prize. Cripps actions were not thise of the "fairest" player in the comp.
@@shannonpincombe8485 cry some more stop being jealous was nothing in it
Not a Collingwood fan but Cripps didn’t deserve it. Polled 3 votes in multiple losing games towards the end of the season when he clearly wasn’t the most impactful on ground (see crows v Carlton for example)
@@dennym6270 😂😂😂😂😂😂👊👊👊👊
Give jobe watson his brownlow back
i know it's probably just for clickbait but calling these rigged is really stupid. the wines v bont one in particular is just a fundamental misunderstanding of what the brownlow is (and yes it's flawed and bont is a better player, but that doesn't make it rigged)
Bont is a better player yes. But that's the misconception with the Brownlow. The better player in that particular season will win it, regardless of whether they're a "star" or not
The trouble with this entire vid is you just fundamentally ignore how the Brownlow works. All of the complexities of super-star team mates, positioning, match-ups, tagging etc. are ignored in favour of simple analysis of a player's vibe, stats and impact at the end of the year.
Maybe there should be an MVP award, but that is just not what the Brownlow is.
Cooney's Charlie was a joke. Buddy Franklin was the most exciting and dominant player all year. Maybe he copped a suspension....? I cannot remember.
Scott Wynd winning in 1992 over Jason Dunstall who had kicked 145 goals in a season is insanity. 145 goals in a season wins a Brownlow...no questions asked.
Brad Hardie's win in 1985 was another ridiculous one. Judd's second was a laugh too.
Its actually changed my mind for how i thought the 2021 brownlow went, i actually thought bont deserved that but now after researching a bit on stats and efficiency, i think wines deserved it
While Priddis definitely didn't deserve the 2014 Brownlow, he was definitely robbed of being an all Australian
Wines deserved his Brownlow ur delusional talking about finals even though finals aren’t counted towards the Brownlow wines outperformed bont final round and so he won the Brownlow
Thank you bro his takes infuriate me
I still have no idea why the umpires thought Bartel deserved more votes than Ablett. That shoulda been his, too. And bear in mind he was doing all of his work against blokes like a prime Dane Swan.
I reckon in his early days, Gazza didn't have too many ump friends as he did complain a lot on the field. Kevin Bartlett had the same problem all his playing career. The umps for some reason didn't like him. He was one of the shortest priced favourites ever to win the 1974 Brownlow but came a distant 3rd to Keith Greig...who the umps loved.
Nothing was more rigged than Greg Williams getting robbed of the 1993 Brownlow.
Wines is not the most damaging player but he was consistently best on ground in 2021 and you cannot say it was rigged when he recorded the equal most votes in Brownlow history
The most rigged of all wasn't on the list : Patrick Cripps
Round 10 1993: Carlton vs Demons: Greg Williams 44 disposals and 1 goal. Received no brownlow votes for this game.
Lost the 1993 Brownlow Medal by 1 vote.
10 04 2024
Where is Neale and Cripps’ Brownlow
Don’t diss woey like that he was unmatched extremely underrated, and him, Neitz and Farmer carried them to the granny
THE umpires don't get to look at the statistics they go by what they thought in the game,
your youth is telling. ablett in 2008 was in a side that won 21 games, with ablett himself missing 3 games.
Not sure how you equate Wines and Priddis. Wines won with the equal most votes in brownlow history, and his team finished second on the ladder. Yes, you mention he couldn't lead them to a premiership, but you don't get votes in finals. Wines was the favourite going into the count - which was not the case for Priddis. They're not remotely similar.
Kaleen, to suggest that the Brownlows are rigged simply is not true. Surprising winners yes, rigged no.
2023 was rigged, nick daicos getting over 35 disposals and having a massive impact in most games but no votes while lachie Neale having 20 disposals every game somehow getting 3 votes is very rigged
Neale getting 3 votes in that 20 possession game was ridiculous, but there were games where he was best on by a mile and only polled 1 or 2. Neale averaged 26, same as 2020 when he won.
Daicos probably would’ve won if he didn’t get injured.
You're delusional if you dont think Wines deserved that Brownlow.
Chris Grant.
You dont give a single reason saying why you think it's rigged; who benefits other than the medalist?
Brownlow votes will always revolve around the influence of there games and how they impacted the match no more no less
Garry Hocking deserved a Brownlow.
Greg Williams got robbed in 93, he got 45 disposals against Melbourne but didn't get the 3 votes.
was given the 94 medal over Matera as compo lol
He didn’t get any votes that day. What a joke!
What about Neal in 2022
Nearly all brownlows are rigged, the majority in history are midfielders, especially the last 30 years. Sure a lot of the awards are deserved but I think more players in other positions could easily win if umpires look at true impact and importance in games
Mate you litteraly watch like on afl game from each player ollie wines was a star in 2021 it dosent matter if you do all this cool and showie stuff Bont is a very good player but he also got no comption back then so go watch football
Bartlett and Raines robbed
Yeh I’m an Eagles guy and I am friendly when it comes to Freo now, but I was an absolute dick at the time in terms of bias lol.
I damn well knew that in 2014… that the Pridda Brownlow was more of an umpire favourite then the actual legit worthy winner. So it wasn’t the greatest robbing in history but ahhh… very lucky (I’m being generous 😂)
I think in that year (2014), Freo lost the qualifying final, home semi final (out in straight sets)… Eagles didn’t make the 8 and Pridda somehow won the Brownlow.
I’m very sympathetic now to Dockers, but back then to say I enjoyed trolling was an understatement 😂.
Wines ‘red hot favourite’ and equal most votes ever. Workman like versus ‘star power’. Get a clue it’s not rigged
None of these IMO it's Lachie Neale. And I'm questioning why it wasn't included when this only dropped 5 days ago?
Because Neale was $8 to win with the tied 3rd lowest odds. He had a great season and was a good chance to win. So not a robbery.
@@gus-qj2mp I disagree. It was a robbery as no one expected him to win it. Hence the commentary of every AFL professional and media personality saying where did that come from.
@@BESTBeforeExpiration "No one expected it"
Except for the AFL Brownlow predictor who had him winning and the bookies who had him at 3rd lowest odds....
@@gus-qj2mp Yeah well obviously you are pretty inexperienced when it comes to understanding AFL brownlows. the bookies had him at a range of third to tenth, and as I said no-one expected it. you are obviously a brisbane fanboy. He is the no.1 unexpected of all time chap. Anyway moving on
@@BESTBeforeExpiration Yet was predicted to win by the AFL hahahah, and no there have been a lot more winners at much longer odds. So none of what youre saying makes sense.
Bont Def Deserved It In 2021 And no one can tell me otherwise.
He's been robbed so many times
i know
Agreed
Bont didn’t deserve it at all. Played terribly the last 4 weeks. Wines also tied dusty for the most votes ever and also polled in the most games ever. Wines 100% deserves it. Just doesn’t get recognition because he plays for a non Victorian team
if he'd shown up in round 23 against port then he probably would've won it
tbh McCaffer tackle wasnt dangerous Ablett just landed badly
3K! Congrats Kaleen
Appreciate it 👍
Priddis was absolutely good enough to make all Australian in 2014, selectors are just morons
The 3 most controversial brownlows:
2024
2024
2024
5:46
Broke my left wrist in a similar tackle. Momentum can be damaging!
Bonce vs Wines : "Umpires are to blame " ????? WTAF ? WHO gives the votes ? Tissues are in Coles aisle 7
love the video and bont deseverd it it in 2021 and 2023
2021, yes. 2023, no
Bont didn’t deserve it at all. Played terribly the last 4 weeks. Wines also tied dusty for the most votes ever and also polled in the most games ever. Wines 100% deserves it. Just doesn’t get recognition because he plays for a non Victorian team
What a load of sh1t.
Wines was a beast in 2021, absolutely dominated in the middle that year. You don't accidentally get 36 Brownlow votes 🙄
Also, that wasn't a dangerous tackle on Ablett by todays standard let alone back then. It was a completely fair tackle.
Priddis was hardly rigged. Gary Ablett had bad luck, and Fyfe cost himself with poor discipline as he has always had.
People saying Cripps was the most rigged like are you kidding yourself, blame the afl for there shit rebuttal you wanna see rigged look up the 93 Brownlow
chris grant 1997 got an undeserved suspension and finished 1st
Not a bad video but the recording could be less scripted (monotone) as for the contents "Rigged" is not the right word but I respect the YT grift. Many of your points are easy to deconstruct & often hold subjective opinions... Not objective POV. I'm a PA supporter so putting Ollie in your thumb was interesting & going after him in a season where he got 44 disposals in 1 game is distasteful, I'd like to have a back & forth on why Bont was 1point behind not 5... Any who.. interesting take on the others... NB Any one that is suspended doesn't deserve the "Best & Fairest" & if you need that explained.. then I'm clearly giving you too much credit to your intelligence... Most BM are fine over the years, Melb teams always get proped up... We shall see how it goes this year.. I appreciate the time & effort that goes into a video so kutos
Priddis was lucky there were a few players that were suspended that year.
These weren't rigged, a "star" player in a team of average players stands out a lot more to the umpires voting. Better performing teams, or teams with multiple "stars" tend to steal each others votes through the season. There are plenty of rigged brownlows though, Like Adam Goodes, not once but TWICE. Literally the most overrated player in history, never had a hard ball get in his entire career, despite being the biggest heaviest guy on the field he was a sleazy little seagull waiting for easy handballs metres away from the play, and he very rarely got tackled, because he threw it away and sold teammates with hospital passes every time someone came within 5 metres of him. THAT is why everyone booed him, not racism as that flog claimed. Even Sydney fans hated him. Absolute unit of a man, and athletic AF, but played like he was scared of the ball and loved to act for free kicks.
Woewodin #22. Stephan Tingay #2. Both peroxide blonde???
bit of an odd video tbh as most of the takes weren't very good including the one about priddis and talking about fyfe even though he was suspended??
Richo was Robbed!!!
I don't agree. I guess that every man and his dog will have a say on who performed well and who was best on the ground for a particular match - this includes the spectator, the commentator, the reporter - and the umpire. Curious to note that when the two newspapers - Herald Sun and The Age cast their votes for a match they do NOT always agree. I am an Adam Goodes fan but when he won his Brownlow he polled three votes in the final round (if memory serves me correctly) but he wasn't in the top 5 for best on the ground that day - in my humble opinion. Anyway, I don't believe the voting is rigged - although the counting may have been although since the date and match have been added to the voting ticket it has been impossible to rig a grand finish (unlike the 1970 Brownlow count - yes, I remember that one - the year Peter Bedford won). So, people can argue from now until doomsday as to who might have won or been the best but the Brownlow is for the umpires to decide, no one else, so leave it at that.
Lachie Neale in the 2023 season. Bont should have won considering Neale got 3 votes for a 12 disposal game.
And you haven't mentioned Patrick Cripps' completely rigged Brownlow?!!!! It has been by far the worst. He shouldn't have been playing that last game where he got 3 votes....Carlton's lawyers should be getting the Brownlow for that year. Lachie Neale should now be a triple Brownlow medalist, although I don't think he deserved his 2023 medal.
Cry some more about it
@@braydendoyle5511 OK I will. Thanks for replying.
ollie wines shouldn't be on this list, it was really between him, the bont, and clarry
yap
love the content
The brownlow has been rigged for a very very long time 😢
Oh never mind this is biased asf
Could easily add 2023 to this list. Daicos and Bont both played better than Neale
No
Now, this one mate 2024 by far!!!