A lot of that grade of "tube" pre-amp have that 3.5mm. A gimmic as far as I can see. The Fosi is basically a solid state (op-amp) based pre-amp, using the valves/tubes as a buffer. The tubes are in circuit, so it does add some of the characteristics of tubes into it, but it is not a tube pre-amp. You can bypass the tubes internally and still get the gain out of it. Not quite a true tube preamp, but it does add some of those secondary harmonics by having the tubes as a buffer.
You are right. FX-03 preamp (same kind of chinese made) works even if you take all the OP amp chips off from the board. It is kind of weird. Those are still quite great sounding devices when upgrading them with better power supply, tubes, op amps, capacitors... and then we have extra +100/200/300 $€... I did solder that 3.5mm plug off from the board and just bypass it by wires. Any advance to sound practically? I dont know.
I sure like your way of putting your opinion out there for us. Much appreciate your Midwest honesty. Only about 80 mi. Away maybe some day I'll stop in now that winters easing up.
Just subscribed! 👍 I'm 63, grew up and became RF electronics tech while all these great "vintage" stereo pieces were born. It was so exciting reading audio magazines of the time while attending Tech School learning how it all works down to the discrete level. Although this was a small sample, actually these type test are very valuable. It is so sad to see companies and some YT "audio experts" promote (marketing) BS like extreme cables and items with so called upgrades which no human can actually hear. Clue: we are talking Audio not Radio frequency engineering. I watched your Top 5 Vintage under $300 and particularly loved the inclusion of easy to work on gear!!! I would really love the same applied to $300 to $1000.
I bought the Fosi P3 Pre-amp and am very happy with it! I use a Yaoin MS-23 Tube phono stage, it is a true tube model without solid state op amps. The combination reminds me of my SP-6 Audio Research and Conrad Johnson pre-amps from the late 70’s.
My God man, thank you! The r/audiophile, r/BudgetAudiophile, and r/turntables all act like budget setups start at $400 for amps/preamps and no one will even touch this with a 10ft pole, well I was curious about these much more affordable options
That is exactly why you do need to investigate the cheaper stuff. I've often noted that audiophiles rant and rage at the cheaper stuff because it exposes how much money they've wasted on their exotic systems.
@@andyhill5645 so update. I had to stick with the more expensive one. The cheap one started picking up FM or AM radio signals I could hear over the speakers. The other one didn't do it 😞
@@tommyj.5323 I'm guessing you have a fairly powerful AM transmitter somewhere near your home. FM interference would not normally be audible. The phenomenon is known as "Audio Rectification" (do a search). The answer is most likely to improve the shielding on your turntable and low level RCA cables... Also be sure to run the ground cable to the pre-amp then on to the amplifier.
Great methodology. This is a very good way to manage the comparison. Not ideal, but we’ll done in my opinion. Thanks. I’m looking at a Denon HA-500 and an Ortofon ST-7. Low output cartridges need help.
Like the video and testing setup. Would be interesting to see the Kinter against a much more expensive phono preamp since it seems to me to be the clear choice (unless you like the glow of tubes)...
My plan is to do a test between the Kinter and a Russound Zphono at some point here soon. If the Kinter wins that one, maybe take it up another notch? We'll see!
That's a good set-up for comparisons. It's very surprising there is little difference in sound between those two very different phono preamps. It suggests the limiting factor in your set-up lies somewhere other than the phono pre amp stage. Perhaps listening to some other records, or with different headphones, would have yielded different results.
So i have the Fosi but badged as a Douk Audio. On the amazon listing youll see that people recommend changing the tubes for better quality ones. I think the brand stone river? River stone? Makes them. And it does actually improve fidelity
Kevin: Fun video, like all of yours. Would also be interesting to compare one of the most popular inexpensive preamps, the ART DJ Pre II to some of the more expensive ones in say, the $200 to $400 range. Could it be a giant killer?
How about testing the newer version that has treble and bass plus volume adjustment, the Fosi Audio Box X4 Phono Preamp? It comes stock with the JAN 5654W tubes
I have the Fosi x4 and it is mediocre at best. I compared it to my Rolls v29 and the Fosi had real low audio output. I had to turn the volume adjustment all the way up, and the treble all the way up, and the bass to 3/4 just to get it to perform the same as my Rolls v29. Couldn't tell any warmth from the tubes whatsoever.
The thing is, you could do the same test with a 1k phono pre and a 3k phono pre and you'd get the same mixed results. Same with amps and speakers, some people prefer one sound others prefer a different sound and sometimes the difference is so small it's barely noticeable, even between gear that is double or triple the price in difference
@@skylabsaudio In about 1970 a stereo vendor said A B these speakers, I will keep switching them you listen don’t look. Moral of the story hear a difference buy the difference not the look. Bought Baby Advents and saved enough to buy a Dual 1218.
Thanks for the video!! Would love to see how you built that Phono selector. That's something I could use to compare my turntables and find witch one sounds best with each system.
The kinter seems like the ideal initial investment. 2 mcdoubles, 1 large fry(app coupon) 1 large diet coke=$5.68, it really helps with a whole situation if everybody uses these types of coupons instead of reinforcing the new norm, And if it becomes a norm we are all in hot water spend the least that you possibly can on anything you buy, In our great country we are trapped in a closed loop system and they are now charging us more for very cheaply prepared super high yield food then what you would pay in the richest places in the world for high-end fare. For example you will pay slightly more for a decent lunch here then you would in Switzerland, where the person preparing your food is making $30 an hour, in an area where the average median income is something around $150,000 per person. I think $12 is fair for a separate dedicated phono preamp that doesn't have any reported reliability issues and most likely sounds pretty good
A tube pre+amp with 12 V power supply is not the way these tubes were designed to be run. Another issue is if these power supplies are switchers, which would introduce switching noise. Nice test .
I have just basic early 80's Rotel DD Turntable (Japan), late 90's Sony CD-player, with chinese made tube preamps (with a better capacitors, tubes, op amps, linear psu's etc), DIY Van Damme cables, and quite cheap Mordaunt Short speakers and I am totally fine with the sound. I know it could be better, but then... we need a better room just listening etc. Acoustics are important. Some people even need a better ears (like me). People listen music from the mobile phone tiny speakers and youtube today (and seems to be ok with it), think about it.
I have been using my Sherwood 7300 for years, but about 1 year ago, I tried a separate phono preamp made by Rolls. It cost about $150. It worked, but the bass tones were gone. My subwoofers totally stopped moving whenever I tried the Rolls. It sounded like garbage. Doing back and forth between the Sherwood and Rolls, the Rolls sounded like a toy.
I've been enjoying your information 👍 I would love hear what your likes are in phono preamps under $500. I'm wanting to upgrade mine. I'm considering the IFI Zen, Pro Ject Tube Box S2, Musical Fidelity V90-lps and the brand new Andover Spinstage. I've got a modest system using a Pioneer PL 540 turntable with a Shure m97xe MM.
Had the pl71 TT for many years. Sold cause I wanted an automatic TT. Getting older. Anyway my vintage pioneer and now Kenwood receivers had no phono stage problems. Plenty of drive. Upgraded my stereo to a hybrid marantz nr1200. Phono stage sucked. So i first purchased a pro ject mm preamp. Cost about 80.00 dollars. Sounded great. 40 db increase. Gave to a friend and bought a ifi zen. Cost more but nice looking with 38 db increase for mm cartridges. But also supports mc cartridges too. Both are excellent choices. 80 vs 199. Dollars. I like a little visual myself. Good luck.
@@brunoespinosa5907 I tried many of the preamps but I've decided to keep the Musical Fidelity V90-lps which sounds very good but then I upgraded the cheap power supply to a iFi IPower X 12v and what a difference it made for the better.
I think the tubes are just a buffer only not an amplifier. I would love to do the test. But you will have to pay airfare and accommodation. All the best from Western Australia
I always wondered if my 18 year old basic a.f. pyle worked as well as about anything and it appears that it does... just fine, thanks for confirming this non expert hunch of mine.
No surprises here.... once you get the frequency response as needed (flat for power amplifiers and line level, RIAA for phono) and get the distortion down under about 1% just about all of this stuff sounds the same. I recently stacked one of my modified A07s up against a "giant killer" that is getting rave reviews ... both in the 75 watt power range. One costs $100 the other $1500 ... and guess what... People had to look to know which one was playing. As I keep telling people.... "Cheap audio is getting better and better audio is getting cheaper".
Probably a stupid question....but....how would of those two phono preamps compare to the built-in phono of my Marantz 2270? And can you recommend a good but not very expensive phono preamp that will be an improvement over my Maranzt 2270 build-in phono?
I bought a cheapo AliExpress preamp with 5x amplification for my ceramic cart for plugging in to line in, I found it's rediculous low amplification , should it be more like 60x ? I have a 1m resistor on each channel between the cart and preamp as stopped it being so shrill sounding. What you suggest for my autochanger with ceramic cart :)
Question I just bought a uturn without a phone pre amp , so if I get one of these preamps all I need is some speakers to listen to music ?? Sorry newbie here
Your set up is the best way of A/B two products that I have heard of. I'd really like to see more of these. Thanks
Thank you! Appreciate the feedback!
A lot of that grade of "tube" pre-amp have that 3.5mm. A gimmic as far as I can see. The Fosi is basically a solid state (op-amp) based pre-amp, using the valves/tubes as a buffer. The tubes are in circuit, so it does add some of the characteristics of tubes into it, but it is not a tube pre-amp. You can bypass the tubes internally and still get the gain out of it. Not quite a true tube preamp, but it does add some of those secondary harmonics by having the tubes as a buffer.
You are right. FX-03 preamp (same kind of chinese made) works even if you take all the OP amp chips off from the board. It is kind of weird. Those are still quite great sounding devices when upgrading them with better power supply, tubes, op amps, capacitors... and then we have extra +100/200/300 $€... I did solder that 3.5mm plug off from the board and just bypass it by wires. Any advance to sound practically? I dont know.
@@prowlingfrost5588 even the tone controls function without OP amps ?
You can plug your phone into the 3.5 or MP3 player or whatever and play music thru it that way. If you so wish…
I sure like your way of putting your opinion out there for us. Much appreciate your Midwest honesty. Only about 80 mi. Away maybe some day I'll stop in now that winters easing up.
Just subscribed! 👍 I'm 63, grew up and became RF electronics tech while all these great "vintage" stereo pieces were born. It was so exciting reading audio magazines of the time while attending Tech School learning how it all works down to the discrete level. Although this was a small sample, actually these type test are very valuable. It is so sad to see companies and some YT "audio experts" promote (marketing) BS like extreme cables and items with so called upgrades which no human can actually hear. Clue: we are talking Audio not Radio frequency engineering.
I watched your Top 5 Vintage under $300 and particularly loved the inclusion of easy to work on gear!!! I would really love the same applied to $300 to $1000.
Just purchased a Aiyima phono pre amp from Ali express for £23.00. it is identical to the fosi X2. BTW, love your presentations👍
I bought the Fosi P3 Pre-amp and am very happy with it! I use a Yaoin MS-23 Tube phono stage, it is a true tube model without solid state op amps. The combination reminds me of my SP-6 Audio Research and Conrad Johnson pre-amps from the late 70’s.
My God man, thank you! The r/audiophile, r/BudgetAudiophile, and r/turntables all act like budget setups start at $400 for amps/preamps and no one will even touch this with a 10ft pole, well I was curious about these much more affordable options
That is exactly why you do need to investigate the cheaper stuff.
I've often noted that audiophiles rant and rage at the cheaper stuff because it exposes how much money they've wasted on their exotic systems.
Thank you! These were literally the two I settled on... you just saved me $65 bucks! (Fosi is currently selling for 80 and the Kinter for 15)
Same
@@andyhill5645 so update. I had to stick with the more expensive one. The cheap one started picking up FM or AM radio signals I could hear over the speakers. The other one didn't do it 😞
@@tommyj.5323
I'm guessing you have a fairly powerful AM transmitter somewhere near your home. FM interference would not normally be audible. The phenomenon is known as "Audio Rectification" (do a search). The answer is most likely to improve the shielding on your turntable and low level RCA cables... Also be sure to run the ground cable to the pre-amp then on to the amplifier.
Great methodology. This is a very good way to manage the comparison. Not ideal, but we’ll done in my opinion. Thanks. I’m looking at a Denon HA-500 and an Ortofon ST-7. Low output cartridges need help.
Would love to see another test of slightly higher priced units vs the inexpensive 10 dollar one.. just for kicks.
Like the video and testing setup. Would be interesting to see the Kinter against a much more expensive phono preamp since it seems to me to be the clear choice (unless you like the glow of tubes)...
My plan is to do a test between the Kinter and a Russound Zphono at some point here soon. If the Kinter wins that one, maybe take it up another notch? We'll see!
@@skylabsaudio Comparing it against the Russound sounds like a great idea!
That's a good set-up for comparisons. It's very surprising there is little difference in sound between those two very different phono preamps. It suggests the limiting factor in your set-up lies somewhere other than the phono pre amp stage. Perhaps listening to some other records, or with different headphones, would have yielded different results.
So i have the Fosi but badged as a Douk Audio. On the amazon listing youll see that people recommend changing the tubes for better quality ones. I think the brand stone river? River stone? Makes them. And it does actually improve fidelity
Kevin: Fun video, like all of yours. Would also be interesting to compare one of the most popular inexpensive preamps, the ART DJ Pre II to some of the more expensive ones in say, the $200 to $400 range. Could it be a giant killer?
How about testing the newer version that has treble and bass plus volume adjustment, the Fosi Audio Box X4 Phono Preamp? It comes stock with the JAN 5654W tubes
I have the Fosi x4 and it is mediocre at best. I compared it to my Rolls v29 and the Fosi had real low audio output. I had to turn the volume adjustment all the way up, and the treble all the way up, and the bass to 3/4 just to get it to perform the same as my Rolls v29. Couldn't tell any warmth from the tubes whatsoever.
The thing is, you could do the same test with a 1k phono pre and a 3k phono pre and you'd get the same mixed results.
Same with amps and speakers, some people prefer one sound others prefer a different sound and sometimes the difference is so small it's barely noticeable, even between gear that is double or triple the price in difference
Agree. I do not think some people understand that, though.
@@skylabsaudio In about 1970 a stereo vendor said A B these speakers, I will keep switching them you listen don’t look. Moral of the story hear a difference buy the difference not the look. Bought Baby Advents and saved enough to buy a Dual 1218.
Great and intriguing comparison When 12DC is the power, batteries could be an option It depends on consumption by the way
Thanks for the video!! Would love to see how you built that Phono selector. That's something I could use to compare my turntables and find witch one sounds best with each system.
I'll try an make a video. Super easy!
@@skylabsaudio Thanks !, I understand the basics but when I tried I got a humm so I guess maybe a grounding issue?
@@harlest71 Hum 99% of the time = grounding issue. That's where I'd have my money
The kinter seems like the ideal initial investment. 2 mcdoubles, 1 large fry(app coupon) 1 large diet coke=$5.68, it really helps with a whole situation if everybody uses these types of coupons instead of reinforcing the new norm, And if it becomes a norm we are all in hot water spend the least that you possibly can on anything you buy, In our great country we are trapped in a closed loop system and they are now charging us more for very cheaply prepared super high yield food then what you would pay in the richest places in the world for high-end fare. For example you will pay slightly more for a decent lunch here then you would in Switzerland, where the person preparing your food is making $30 an hour, in an area where the average median income is something around $150,000 per person. I think $12 is fair for a separate dedicated phono preamp that doesn't have any reported reliability issues and most likely sounds pretty good
very cool, maybe the same format with different stylus? Great videos
Thank you! Absolutely
Have you compared them to something like the Schiit Mani?
A tube pre+amp with 12 V power supply is not the way these tubes were designed to be run. Another issue is if these power supplies are switchers, which would introduce switching noise. Nice test .
I have the kinter and I think its one of he best sounding (for the money) especially if on budget
I have just basic early 80's Rotel DD Turntable (Japan), late 90's Sony CD-player, with chinese made tube preamps (with a better capacitors, tubes, op amps, linear psu's etc), DIY Van Damme cables, and quite cheap Mordaunt Short speakers and I am totally fine with the sound. I know it could be better, but then... we need a better room just listening etc. Acoustics are important. Some people even need a better ears (like me). People listen music from the mobile phone tiny speakers and youtube today (and seems to be ok with it), think about it.
I have been using my Sherwood 7300 for years, but about 1 year ago, I tried a separate phono preamp made by Rolls. It cost about $150. It worked, but the bass tones were gone. My subwoofers totally stopped moving whenever I tried the Rolls. It sounded like garbage. Doing back and forth between the Sherwood and Rolls, the Rolls sounded like a toy.
I've been enjoying your information 👍 I would love hear what your likes are in phono preamps under $500. I'm wanting to upgrade mine. I'm considering the IFI Zen, Pro Ject Tube Box S2, Musical Fidelity V90-lps and the brand new Andover Spinstage. I've got a modest system using a Pioneer PL 540 turntable with a Shure m97xe MM.
Had the pl71 TT for many years. Sold cause I wanted an automatic TT. Getting older. Anyway my vintage pioneer and now Kenwood receivers had no phono stage problems. Plenty of drive. Upgraded my stereo to a hybrid marantz nr1200. Phono stage sucked. So i first purchased a pro ject mm preamp. Cost about 80.00 dollars. Sounded great. 40 db increase. Gave to a friend and bought a ifi zen. Cost more but nice looking with 38 db increase for mm cartridges. But also supports mc cartridges too. Both are excellent choices. 80 vs 199. Dollars. I like a little visual myself. Good luck.
@@brunoespinosa5907 I tried many of the preamps but I've decided to keep the Musical Fidelity V90-lps which sounds very good but then I upgraded the cheap power supply to a iFi IPower X 12v and what a difference it made for the better.
The Fosi sounds way better with different tubes GE5654.
With the fosi the signal goes through the tubes then is digitally boosted out to your amp.
Which makes me now wonder IF one could actually hear a difference in a turntable with a built in preamp & one with an external one.
I think the tubes are just a buffer only not an amplifier.
I would love to do the test.
But you will have to pay airfare and accommodation.
All the best from Western Australia
I always wondered if my 18 year old basic a.f. pyle worked as well as about anything and it appears that it does... just fine, thanks for confirming this non expert hunch of mine.
I use an Art DJ PRE II, for around EUR 60 - sounds better than the pre amp from my Denon PMA 2000R Amp
No surprises here.... once you get the frequency response as needed (flat for power amplifiers and line level, RIAA for phono) and get the distortion down under about 1% just about all of this stuff sounds the same.
I recently stacked one of my modified A07s up against a "giant killer" that is getting rave reviews ... both in the 75 watt power range. One costs $100 the other $1500 ... and guess what... People had to look to know which one was playing.
As I keep telling people.... "Cheap audio is getting better and better audio is getting cheaper".
Lot's a fun. Thank you.
Probably a stupid question....but....how would of those two phono preamps compare to the built-in phono of my Marantz 2270? And can you recommend a good but not very expensive phono preamp that will be an improvement over my Maranzt 2270 build-in phono?
Nice work!
The Schiit Skoll. Man oh man!!!
Perhaps they just both sound bad. Were they both compared with a control amp with built in pre amp?
I bought a cheapo AliExpress preamp with 5x amplification for my ceramic cart for plugging in to line in, I found it's rediculous low amplification , should it be more like 60x ? I have a 1m resistor on each channel between the cart and preamp as stopped it being so shrill sounding. What you suggest for my autochanger with ceramic cart :)
Question I just bought a uturn without a phone pre amp , so if I get one of these preamps all I need is some speakers to listen to music ?? Sorry newbie here
If they are powered speakers yes. If not, you will need an amplifier or receiver to go between the uturn and the speakers
I appreciate your response
Step up the gain on the fosi and re do the test
The Kinter isn’t $12
Why that album. That is just wrong.