Gatwick class D zone transit with a controller on board
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2017
- The Flying Reporter transits London Gatwick's Class D airspace with an air traffic controller in the cockpit.
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Music: Licensed by The Audio Network
Moonshine
Keith Beauvais/ Dave James/ Michael Craig
Primrose Hill Sparkle
Pete Davis/ Christian Marsac
Wow. You touched down more softly than a butterfly with sore feet !
Very nice !
14:00 - 14:15
The absolute key point in the Pilot/ATC relationship.
Really enjoyed this! I used to fly with my dad in a cessna c182. We flew from Dunsfold allot and seeing you fly this route bought some great memories back!
Hi Jon, thanks for another great video, I actually think we are really lucky in the South to have so much restricted airspace that you can practice your radio work with, I did my training out of Thruxton so always talking to Boscombe Down for MATZ penetration and crossing when heading south, plus Farnborough, Solent and Bournemouth, practice definitely helps, so even asking for a basic service means that you have to talk with them. Brize Norton is Class D airspace and because it's not that busy is a great ATC to talk to to get practice and fly over a huge airfield and sometimes see some really cool heavyweight aircraft on the ground
I've yet to attempt Gatwick but your video does inspire
I video and audio record all of my flights to learn from my errors and was so pleased with the comms with a recent flight from Bembridge on the Isle of Wight back to Thruxton a few weeks ago I made a recording of just the audio comms with Solent and put it here ruclips.net/video/gdWKWyRozWY/видео.html any feedback much appreciated. it's only 2 mins 54 seconds, no video, just audio
My instructor made a great comment just before my first ever call to Thruxton Radio when I was training, he said
"There is a little nerve in the end of your fore finger on your left hand and when you push that button it presses on the nerve, the result is that your brain goes to mush and you talk rubbish :-)
Use every opportunity to talk to ATC that you can, they really don't bite, and each time it becomes easier.
All the best and looking forward to your video on camera mounting.
PS, just joined a syndicate out of Popham so I'll be putting some of my "challenges" up on video soon. 26 into Popham is a real challenge!!
Keith
Thanks Keith. I had a listen to the video. Your communications are very clear, and nicely paced. I'd avoid the POB information for an en-route controller, unless they request that.
Aah OK, thanks for that Jon, it was one of those things that was taught to me in the training that has stuck, what is the logic for not providing en-route?
keep them video's coming
I don't think the controllers don't want to know en route. I don't think they have anywhere on their flight progress strips to record this info. They'll ask you if you declare emergency, and if you go missing/crash, they'll contact the aerodrome where you departed to see what info you booked out with.
That makes sense, thanks for the perspective.
regards
Keith
I only got my license a few weeks ago and living in North Devon, we are a bit 'proteced' from airspace in the area, so that was a great film to see how things work when its not just fields your flying over! - Thanks
Cheers Chris.
Fascinating stuff. Another great video Jon thanks.
Thanks for the support Richard.
Much Respect and TY for the excellent Video (From YVR)
Accidentally stumbled across this video from elsewhere on youtube. Glad I did. Very entertaining and informative. Making me want to get a PPL even more now. Keep up the great work. Thanks
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Great video guys. You didn’t need to introduce him as an ATCO... the Superdry hoodie always gives it away 😜
I enjoy your channel! Thanks for showing us things so thoroughly.
It's a pleasure.
Brilliant video Jon, I am aiming to do a Gatwick zone transit from Redhill on my next flight, so this is extremely helpful. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for watching.
Such an interesting video to witness how it's all done! Now I am not in the knowledge in the slightest of all the jargon and terminology you use, but your videos are very enlightening and interesting to watch. Amazing to see a Controller in with you! The fascination for me is that when the likes of myself is aboard a plane for my holidays, all this communication is happening without our ability to witness it. You communicate with ATC so fluently, yet you'll probably argue the case, it sounds good to us not in the knowledge. I'm picking up basics though. It's just really interesting to watch and listen to, so thanks for another brilliant video! 👍👍👍
Thanks for watching Chris.
What a superb video showing ATC don't bite. Thanks for putting together!
Thanks for watching Paul.
As a new student pilot (10hrs in) I'm really looking forward to your flight planning video. I appreciate people always do things differently but anyone who's prepared to take the time to share their knowledge gets my viewing time! Remeber to put Tatenhill (EGBM) on your must-visit list!
That was packed with useful information. Didn't know the difference between 'base' and 'ceiling'! Looking forward to that mini-series!
Need to get that finished now that the new year is here!
Thank you for this one. I have yet to do a zone transit of a class D so this is useful stuff.
Another great video Jon. Fascinating to hear how ATC look after GA traffic transiting CTA's. It's a science in itself!
Cheers Darren.
I'm new to this channel and I already love it!
Thats great!
I'm a new pilot and have only flown 12 hours approx not long for my first solo!! It all looks so interesting and I know I have a lot to learn but your videos are so informative and well made. Thanks for taking the time to produce them.
Thanks for the comment Robin.
great video! love it
Thanks for watching.
It's enlightening to hear the other side of things, the prospect of navigating controlled airspace - especially one like Gatwick - is intimidating. I'm looking forward to seeing your video tutorial on flight planning.
I found the insight really interesting too.
Very interesting Jon I did enjoy that.
Thanks Steve.
Jon, you really are the most competent and skilled PPL I have ever known, I was one of those people that your trafficker friend was talking about when he said that you can tell if the pilot doesn't know what he is doing - that was me, too much pressure flying through Gatwick ATZ I'm afraid and as a result I stayed away from the bloody place. Loved the bit where you said that you "bugged it up a bit" though - truly awesome video can't wait for the next.
Thanks David...although I wouldn't rate myself that highly. Appreciate the comment.
Hello Jon. Great video.
I’m Interested to know why you didn’t tell them you had the latest ATIS on contact and save them giving you the QNH?
Very interesting. Its nice to know what goes on when, I`m a passenger in an aircraft going on holiday. Look forward to flight planning series.
Cheers Paul.
Love your videos, all very interesting, love to see a video of you flying into Lee on Solent airfield one day.
Thanks Richard. I really need to go to Lee on Solent.
The Flying Reporter Look forward to you coming in, will have to get a picture of you on final, there is a free landing coupon for Solent Airport in this months Flyer Magazine, not sure if you get it, but handy if you do.
Another cracking video! You even had a non-pilot understanding what was going on
Thanks Michael. Glad it made sense.
Lovely video - I am a 'wanna be Air Traffic Controller; myself and it was great seeing a controller with you :)
Cheers Fergus.
Another great video 👍 A suggestion for another, is one about leaning for best power and best economy...
Thanks Kevin.
Great video, I fly out of white Waltham and a Gatwick transit is on the to do list!
Thanks Robert.
Great to see Sam, not seen him for 8 years!
Really nice to fly with.
Was he in the 5 airports 1 flight video?
good to watch, thanks :)
Hehe, the Gatwick controller reminds me of the Aberdeen or Leuchars controller I was talking to when doing my PPL training, unlike the Edinburgh controller who was just rattling instructions off. To be fair, the frequency was so busy that I ended up having to wait like 2 mins to make my initial call as the second the airliner responded, the controller rattled off another instruction to another airliner. Still, was a great experience as I was so used to A/G, being nice n slow.
You'll find that they rattle on for a bit, then there'll be a period when people can call in...just a case of timing.
Good video. Thx very much
Pleasure.
Another great video. I like the BM music in your edits, sounds very professional as it should from a BBC employee.
Do you run through your head first about what to say before you speak to someone as busy as Gatwick or do you find it rolls off the tongue?
Dont suppose you could make a video about keeping your licence valid and safe because getting a PPL is academic but keeping it is another story.
I know these videos take a lot of time and effort to produce but it will be greatly appreciated. I'm starting my training next year at Denham.
Yes, I sometimes run through what I'm going to say before calling a controller. I will make sure I know where I am, for starters. But the radio calls usually follow a pattern. CARPACER. Callsign, Aircraft Type, Route, Position, Altitude, Flight conditions (VFR/IFR), estimate, Request.
Great video Jon :D. It sure does look daunting going through Class D airspace :/ I'm currently training for my PPL Im moving onto navigation which Im a little nervous on doing. Certainly look forward to your next video on how you going about flight planning. Keep up the great work, very educational and enjoyable to watch expecially while Im undergoing training :D
John Roach I’m learning myself and during my training in the middle of summer did a Transit through gatwick class D and it was great fun! Controllers so helpful
Excellent video. A well told story. I hope everyone appreciates how much work these videos are.
Thanks for watching.
Awesome vid! And even more awesome is that I go to school with the youngest brother of Sam!
Cool!
Hi Jon - Great video as always. One question, why do you always hold in so much yoke input on taxi and takeoff?
Thanks :)
+TomJhPage you turn ailerons and elevators into wind to give you more control of the aircraft on the ground when taxying and in the start of the take off roll.
Interesting insight into Gatwick ATC...
I thought so too. Thanks.
Nice idea for a video Jon and it works well. Shame that we need to include shots to keep some people quiet, when most of us cut out checklists as the majority of people comment that they find these boring and repetitive! Keep up the good work, what next?
Thanks Tim. Don't I know it!
It looks easy ,when you two explain it, but it would be good for the newbie not to relax too much...
Another informative video, John. Out of curiosity: do you record cockpit audio directly into the GoPro, or do you use a dedicated audio recorder? My camera USB inputs tend to be taken up by external power sources, so I use a field recorder - but it often peaks, despite being at its lowest input setting.
Try using an attenuator. See the FAQs on my website. I cover this on there.
Thanks, will do!
Greast video. 9:00 Your right wing top surface looking a bit bumpy ?
Hmmm. So it does. Looks like the light/shadows accentuate it. Will need to take a look.
Great video! How do you record the communications?
Thanks. This is covered on the FAQs on my website. Link in the description.
I do like his Hoody!
Hi. what software are you using for your map in the video?
John Hodgkiss it’ll be SkyDemon, it’s fantastic & I would recommend it 👍🏻
Hi Jon, I got an interesting question for you and your fellow controller Sam. It looks like everyone in the UK call Piper PA-28 type like “PA28” on the radio. While in the ICAO documents it is officially registered and listed as “P28A”. Did you know? So, what would be a proper type designator to report? Here’s a link to check the type: www.icao.int/publications/DOC8643/Pages/Search.aspx
I'm guessing, the reason why PA28 and Cessna 152 is used rather than P28A or C152 in UK RT is our radio telephony manual, CAP413 : publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413%20MAY16.2.pdf I use the ICAO designator on the formal flight plans.
The Flying Reporter, well it perfectly explains everything. I read the Appendix 1 of the doc and saw the main differences. Happy flying!
Massive workload but expertly handled! Well done!
Thank you.
I thought the fact that you have to have clearance for class D was ICAO standard?
It's my understanding that in the US, for example, to enter class D, all that is required is 2-way communication with the controller looking after that airspace.
oh ok yeah it is that way here in Switzerland, too. I misunderstood what you were saying in the video. thanks and keep up the good work. Greetings from Switzerland.
Correct AND the controller has to respond with your callsign.
Sam wasnt impressed by the looks on his face with the ATC
Rather you than me. I think I’d go around.
UK airspace is so odd and confusing. Can/US makes more sense imho
Nice. They do like to keep you thinking while you're trying to fly a plane... Why do they give a clearance "not above 2000ft"? Surely there's nobody above that for you to conflict with...
They will want us 1000ft from anything IFR in controlled airspace. There will be plenty about. Anything downwind for Gatwick for example.
The Flying Reporter Good point. I've certainly wondered why my local class D wants my single engine to be so low when their inbound traffic is above 2000ft at least 20nm away!
I think the separation they like is 3nm/1000ft.
That screw is still missing.....looks like you need an engineer to come with you....hint hint!!
+Sterlingjob it's logged and should be replaced soon.
The Flying Reporter I used to work at Avtech and falcon..now play with big stuff! I’ve seen worse missing! Give us a wave when you fly over Bookham!
As a student pilot, one of the things that I get from these videos is the gulf between those of us who have embraced electronics and those who haven't. Six pages of paper checklists? Really? I keep seeing you fiddling with pieces of paper. Why? Yes, I know that SkyDemon doesn't have checklists. Solution? Get rid of SkyDemon and, if you're in Europe, buy Garmin Pilot. The whole lot, including personal checklists and amendments to standard checklists, are on my ForeFlight app.VOR? It's dead, in fact being killed off in the U.S. Don't waste time on it :) If your airfields are set up for WAAS GPS, forget about ILS too.
I've explored Garmin Pilot. I personally don't find it particularly good for VFR flying, or very good for the type of IFR flying I do outside controlled airspace. I use the best NAVAIDs for the task, and in this case, it was easier to use the VOR track out of the BIG VOR to get on course. If I had two 430s it would be easier to use the two GPS sources. We still have plenty of VORs in the UK, but they are slowly being decommissioned. It's not a case of wasting time on these aids, it's a case of using the most most useful one for you at the time. We still don't have a very many GNSS approaches in the UK. They are slowly being introduced, but with most of the aerodromes having ILS/DME/NDB approaches, those skills still need to be practised.
The Flying Reporter Just joshing you. I really like your videos. But yes, we part company on radio navigation. The less that I hear about it, the better :)
I come at this with a marine navigation background. I’ve spent lots of time sailing in and across the English Channel, as well as the North Sea, Brittany, the Caribbean, the Pacific and the North Atlantic. I own and know how to use a sextant, and people who claim that one needs to know how to use one (in case the satellites go down) are in my view crazy.
I have pretty much the same view of VOR and ILS. The sooner that pilots dump that technology, the better. But I do realise that you disagree :)
I can’t remember the last time I used a radio NavAid on a boat, and as a student pilot the continued use of VOR and ILS mostly tells me that many pilots, within days of 2018, have yet to enter 2000 :)
P.S. Every time that I see you messing with bits of paper in your cockpit, I thank God that I’m using ForeFlight. Sorry, but your process, and the evident stress on your face a lot of the time... I’ll drop it there.
I don't disagree with you. At the moment, we have no choice but to use old fashioned radio navigation. Look at the AIPs for our UK GA aerodromes and you'll find most of them don't have GNSS approaches. Additionally, in order to pass our instrument flying tests, and renewals, we have to use the old fashioned aids. Hence we have to keep in practise. It's not been an issue of pilot reluctance, it's our regulator, who has been very slow to accept GPS as a means of acceptable navigation.
As for stress - the two flights you've been commenting on were stressful flights. If you haven't already, have a look at some of my other videos, and hopefully you'll see that there's a lot of fun and enjoyment in my flying too. Especially when not flying in the tight London airspace, at risk of losing my license if I stray into controlled airspace without a clearance.
I empathise with flying London airspace. I've paid particular attention to those videos because I live in New York. I've chosen to do my flight training up the Hudson Valley, but when I finish I'll probably be doing a lot of my flying from Republic (KFRG), which is a stone's throw from Kennedy (KJFK) and LaGuardia (KLGA) :) I do really appreciate your videos. Cheers.
I wonder if the Watch manager passenger had a word to the controller afterwards to explain where his phraseology was not quite clear enough? Don’t the Germans run ATC there now? Wouldn’t have happened under NATS.....!,,, lol
This was a NATS controller we were speaking to. Anyhow, these confusions can happen sometimes.
Absolutely correct to clarify cleared to cross controlled airspace.
At 8:32 minutes squinting in the sunlight.It's very dangerous and stupid to fly without sunglasses.
Must be stupid then! Thanks so much.