It's not a jet engine. This is a Frame 5 GE Heavy duty single shaft gas turbine generator that runs at 5100 RPM and through a gearbox turns a generator at 3600 rpm. I installed and serviced GE Frame 3's, Frame 5's, Frame 6 and Frame 7 gas turbine generator drives. I can't tell from the outside but my guess is that this is a simple cycle Load Peaking version of Frame 5 unit that puts out 24 Megawatts. The diesel engine starting units I saw all had Detroit 12V-71 twin turbo 600hp engines. Are you sure its a 12V-92? Some very old ones used 350hp Cummins V-8 engines. I have had tons of these units apart and have casings 3-6 inches thick, the turbine and generator rotors each weigh several tons, and there are no aircraft parts in them at all as compared to a ''light weight'' aero derivative GE LM2500 which was based on a DC-10 jet engine. This particular gas turbine can be remotely started. It has black start capability with the diesel and can be readied to be put online with no external grid power available. Some are electric motor started and some have steam turbine start. What you hear at the end of the video is pretty much like it sounds at full load. There is no thunder! That exhaust stack at 1:30 has turned blue because of massive amounts of hot air at 1000 degrees F coming out of a 13x13 foot stack. The diesel is inside the accessory cab which has the 5 black radiator inlets toward the right, and the round fan housing on top. The turbine air inlet is the stack with the snow on top. The generator cab is on the far left. The Accessory, Turbine, and Generator and Control cabs were designed to fit through railroad tunnels throughout the world. They are easily set on a massive concrete foundation where they are bolted down, piped, then aligned, and all of the external pieces are added. It takes about 3-6months to put one together. Fun fact...it has 2 spark plugs. They retract from the combustion liners as the compressor discharge pressure builds up. I blacked out the entire East side of Lake Maracaibo in Venezuela long ago when one unit was down for maintenance and the other was at full load. I was behind the Speedtronic control panel and closed a panel when a sharp edge shorted out a wire and tripped the unit off line. The Hotel at Mene Grande was pissed off at me. Thanks for the memories. I hope you don't mind a few corrections!
Thanks for all the detailed information! We had 4 similar units around the state, but the other 3 are air starting units. This is the only one that uses a Detroit. It's definitely a Detroit, but we sold off generation so I no longer had access to the units. You're probably right about it being 12v71... I know it's 12 cylinder and I know it's twin turbo, but I couldn't remember the displacement, so I guessed based on what the different models looked like. This one is used to power a rural area in the event of a line outage or substation equipment failure. There are 2 together that are black start units in case of a state or larger region wide power failure and the grid has to start from zero. I have a video of one of them running and loading up... it seems to have that plane-like rumble when it gets freighted. The last unit is one that I had been told was more of a plane engine based unit. That one runs on #1 as opposed to the one in this video that runs on #2. I'm not sure what the other 2 that I mentioned run on, but they are also used for peaking... I don't think we've ever had to black start the state. Definitely not in the 18 years I've been in substations. Again, I appreciate the knowledge and detail... maybe if you get a chance you can check my other turbine generator video out and add any information you would like to in the comments, thank you!
@@reusefull I will look at your other videos! This part of my life as a GE Field Engineer is full of cobwebs! I started remembering lots of things. After leaving the International Department of GE, I asked to be assigned to California. They put me in the GE San Francisco Marine Department because very few people had gas turbine experience and Chevron had 5 oil tankers in the area. Each one powered by a 7500 hp GE Frame 3 two shaft gas turbine driving a generator which drove an electric motor that turns the ship's propeller. Over the years I ran the overhauls on them all. But GE wanted me to be a ''one size fits all'' Engineer, so they had me all over steam turbine powered ships, nuke powered aircraft carriers, fast attack subs, and all kinds of classified ships and locations. I spent a lot of time around Prudhoe Bay as everything on the North Slope is gas turbine powered. For a while, I was troubleshooting a bunch of non GE machinery, even boilers, pumps, Woodward governors. Diagnose the stuff, have their crew fix it, then everybody was happy. Those days were fun and I dove in to whatever they assigned me to no matter how weird it was. But I was away for months on end and that started getting really old. I quit. Besides, GE wanted me to take High Voltage Training to be able to run substation repair jobs. Sure. Why not astronaut training as well. Before I said no, some poor kid fresh out of the HV Training School got fried when he got up an personal with a huge transformer that was not tagged out. I told them no after that. Thanks for keeping the lights on back there!
@Honor America DD don't leak thats just them marking territory. Dependable? Yup, the 4/71 GM ('54 block) in my boat was inframed in '86 and is still strong with no sign of any problem. Love my lil green meanie.
When they idle for 5 minutes or longer then you rev it up they belch out a cloud of black smoke that'd rival the eruption of Mt St Helens. I lived in the hull of an armored vehicle for 3 years of my life that was powered by a V6 two stroke Detroit Diesel, I'm familiar enough with them to know that they could have saved themselves the time and money of making a throttle assembly for the vehicle and just used a toggle switch marked idle and run because you never ran the engine anywhere in between, after I got out of the Army I talked to some old time truck drivers who said the best way to get one of those two stroke Detroit Diesel engine's to run is to slam the truck door on your hand when you're getting into it, drive angry or you won't get anywhere fast.
@@urgentcareguy3 “Green leaker” and “driptroit” come to mind! I’ve had pretty good luck with leaks but mostly dealing with detroits as ships generators. Put air box drain catch can/tank on them solves that leak, anything else leaking can be fixed. You could eat off the floor in one of our generator rooms even with three 12v149’s screaming away in there.
GE frame 5 rotor weighs about 10 tons, the generator pickle weighs 10 tons, add to that the accessory and load gearboxes. That's a huge amount of mass to accelerate to a self-sustaining speed.
I like reading the comments telling stories about professionals past experiences with these. I'm a year out of welding school and hoping to have memories like these one day.
Love these sorts of videos. Big Detroit Diesel and turbine engines, enough output to power a medium sized town. Love the hidden infrastructure that maintain our world.
We have a Pratt & Whitney Jet (and it's an actual JET engine) with a similar output. It has an air start supplied from a 450psi reservoir. From the time I push the button, it will be synched and on-line in 8-9 minutes and will autoload to up to 24 MW's depending on the ambient temperature. We use water injection for NOx control. There used to be two of these P&W jets at my plant, but one was removed in 2004 and not returned due to permitting issues (we're in the middle of a big city). For 40+ years they ran on Jet "A" but were converted to run on No. 2 ultra low sulfur distillate a few years back. The jet gives us black start capability. The plant's prime mover is a GE 7F gas turbine which powers a 175 MW (nominal) generator. This runs on either natural gas or the same No. 2 oil as the Jet. We're permitted to run the big machine on liquid fuel up to 720 hours a year. The exhaust from the CT is used to make steam in a HRSG which in turn runs a 1300-200psi Back Pressure Steam turbine which supplies steam to a large district heating system.
One of our other units is a 24 MW Pratt & Whitney that runs on Jet A. It definitely looks like a jet to my eyes when I see it, but I don't work on those, We seperated from generation a few years ago so now I just work in the yards where they are, and see them do test runs occasionally. It's just for peaking/emergencies and black start.
Do you actually know the difference between a jet engine and a turbine? How do you make electricity with your jet engine? Is it mounted on some sort of cart that drives around and is pulling a generator? A jet engine delivers thrust and nothing else.
@SuperDirk1965 I understand that there is a shaft connected to it and so that makes it a combustion turbine, but when you're standing there looking at the thing with your eyes, your brain says to you... "that's a jet engine" and when when your listening to it spool up and load up with your ears your brain is again telling you "that's a jet engine"... particularly the Pratt and Whitney unit that fires on compressed air.
Fun fact number 2, a turbine power generation station is more efficient than a piston internal combustion engine. So even if an electric car used 100% coal generated power it would still be more efficient to use an electric car rather than an internal combustion engine. Go look up the studies this is all well documented information based on the efficiencies of each type of energy generation. And since natural gas is now the largest contributor to the electrical grid it is even more efficient than when using coal. And if we would allow our industries to build more nuclear power generation then it would negate the issue entirely.
@@winstonpoplin Nope. Don't fall for the lies behind EV's or recycling or environmental anything. The typical modern Natural Gas fueled jet turbine generator is only around 25 to 35% efficient. The national electrical grid is only around 30 to 40% efficient. The typical EV has around 70 to 80% charge to drive efficiency. .25 x .3 x .7 = ~ *5.2%* to .35 x .4 x .8 = ~ *11.2%* Vs the average gasoline-burning vehicle at around 25 to 30% efficient. (~35 to 40% with high-efficiency non-emissions compliant engine designs.) Or the average diesel vehicle at around 35 to 40% efficiency. (~43 to 48% with high-efficiency non-emissions compliant engine designs.) All of this is fact checkable too. 😉
@tcmtech7515 It's like you didn't even research the topic before replying to this. Here is a basic quote describing the numbers involved as well as several links to sites that have good graphics that may make it easier for you to understand. "Although the EV motor is more efficient than the internal combustion engine, the well to wheel (WTW) efficiency should be investigated in terms of determining the overall energy efficiency. In simple words, this study will try to answer the basic question - is the electric car really energy efficient compared with ICE-powered vehicles? This study investigates the WTW efficiency of conventional internal combustion engine vehicles ICEVs (gasoline, diesel), compressed natural gas vehicles (CNGV) and EVs. The results show that power plant efficiency has a significant consequence on WTW efficiency. The total WTW efficiency of gasoline ICEV ranges between 11-27 %, diesel ICEV ranges from 25 % to 37 % and CNGV ranges from 12 % to 22 %. The EV fed by a natural gas power plant shows the highest WTW efficiency which ranges from 13 % to 31 %. While the EV supplied by coal-fired and diesel power plants have approximately the same WTW efficiency ranging between 13 % to 27 % and 12 % to 25 %, respectively. If renewable energy is used, the losses will drop significantly and the overall efficiency for electric cars will be around 40-70% depending on the source and the location of the renewable energy systems." Its really all quite well established. www.energycouncil.com.au/analysis/evs-are-they-really-more-efficient/ www.google.com/amp/s/www.motortrend.com/news/evs-more-efficient-than-internal-combustion-engines/amp/ ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020SJRUE..24..669A/abstract#:~:text=The%20total%20WTW%20efficiency%20of,from%2013%20%25%20to%2031%20%25. It is not conducive or beneficial to a learning enviornment to post information as if it is factual when a simple google search and reading over a few studies can show the truth of the situation.
@@winstonpoplin Thanks for showing the same numbers I used while simultaneously trying to argue from a point of highly specific semantics, despite the greater average numbers of what you linked to supporting what I said. You do know that where most of the EV's are located they are at the farthest points away from where the high-efficiency NG and Coal-fired baseload (Steam based) power plants are located, right? 🤨
@@tcmtech7515 Average CO2 emissions per kWh per country is what counts. Therefore an EV is always less polluting than a comparable combustion engine car. Even in carbon heavy countries like Poland.
Ahh Lost Nation CT, I always was curious how it sounded when starting, glad to know it’s finally fixed. It’ll get a work out this winter for sure. Thanks for the videos.
@@reusefull CT == combustion turbine, I definitely know Connecticut doesn’t have snow on the ground. I’m just glad you guys were able to finally fix the unit, hope she’s in tip top shape she’ll be burning through fuel this winter.
@@740GLE Ok... gotcha. I'm out of touch on that unit. The company sold off generation, so I'm no longer involved. Just with the S/S that's across the street.
When I was going through automotive trade school in N.E. Ohio during the late eighties. I worked at an industrial radiator repair business. We re-cored those massive industrial radiators used in these supplemental generators. The radiators alone can weigh several tons. That's when I learned about waterless coolant. It's awesome stuff. It doesn't expand when it gets hot like traditional antifreeze, meaning you don't need a high pressure cooling system to keep the water, like in traditional water mixed automotive antifreeze, from gassing (boiling) because there isn't any water in it. When you don't have to also make the radiator a pressure vessel, it significantly decreases unit cost and increases the units life. I now put 'Evan's' brand waterless coolant and a 3 psi radiator cap in all of my vehicles and I haven't had a cooling system problem since. When radiators and heater cores are constantly being expanded under pressure, they eventually fail. Especially modern automotive radiators with 'plastic' tanks. It's awesome stuff. It was made for industrial applications but now, You can just buy it right on Amazon. I heard about Evan's 9-10 years ago finally being available to consumers and I've been using Evan's Waterless Coolant ever since. I swear by the stuff.
Do you know what the composition of the waterless coolant is? I'm guessing it won't be a hydrocarbon liquid, because that would be too flammable and not have enough heat capacity to replace water in the cooling system. Waterless coolant is not a new idea - aircraft engines in world war 2 used pure ethylene glycol as coolant all the time without a problem. Glycol has about 60% the heat capacity of water, so it does need to be pumped a bit faster, but the boiling point is much higher so the radiator can be smaller for the same heat dissipation. With all that in mind, I'm guessing that the waterless coolant is a glycol blend of some sort - does it appear to have a higher viscosity than water when you pour it?
Interesting! I guess that waterless coolant also has superb qualities when it comes to corrosion and material compatibility like gaskets, rubber hoses. What about cavitation? Thats critical with some engines. I really like using products that are meant for industrial use because its always good stuff.
I was a crewman on an M113 based chassis in the Army, in the summer evenings I'd sleep on the engine's exhaust grate where all the heat from the engine compartment cooling off after being shut down would rise up through it.
I worked at a mulch place that had a huge grinding machine with a twin turbo V12 diesel. Sometimes the grinding stones would hit a sledgehammer head in the bark pile and it would throw it a few hundred feet into the woods. It was impressive.
Guys like Art Arfons (rip) already did this 30+ years ago on outlaw tractor pull tractors, look up "The Green Monster" "Dragon Lady" and "The General" they all used turbines.
I am an ex diesel automotive mechanic and drive an EV. Still love the old iron, grew up with Detroit eartmovers but like dinasaurs their time is running out. My favorite ICE sound is aero radials, very rare now.
We have one of these 12V92’s at the health care facility, (I work engineering and maintenance) as the emergency diesel generator. It’s 33 years old and runs like a clock. That isn’t stopping the stupid health system from wanting to replace it. Dumbasses! It is a wonderful machine.
Back in the 80's ,I worked at Detroit Diesel Research Lab in Detroit. I worked on 53, 71, Silver 92 , 60 and 149 series. The 149 was my favorite of them all.
@@ericrehagen4194.... There is NO "24v149". The largest Series 149 was the 20 cylinder, and Not very many were ever built.... but quite a few of the V12's and V16's. There weren't a lot of the V8's, either. The only V6's ever made were for when they were assembling a V20... with a V6, V8 & V6. The Only V24 (from Stewart & Stevenson) were built using two V12's (Series 71).
We used to have a Pratt and Whitney Twin PAC 40 MWe at our power plant. It could remotely start a go to full load in three minutes. We almost always locally manually started it for summer peak loads. Overspeed testing was really cool!
Superb episode, thanks. Cast off all lines fore and aft! Ah…so windmills and solar panels are supposed to replace diesel fuel, coal & nuclear energy power generation? Maybe in 200 years from now. Carry on!
When I worked inside the NORAD Cheyenne Mountain Complex, we had 6 Six Cooper Enterprise R3 diesel gensets that generated 10.5 mw to power the complex in an emergency. The noise in a confined space is horrendous, thank goodness for ear protection and soundproof control rooms.
@@erikkovacs3097 10.5 total capability, but that would not account for redundancy so most likely the entire complex consumes around 2.8MW at peak consumption.
Deep in the primeval forest, kingdom of nature's repose and silence, sanctuary from the cacophony of modern life, is this shrieking ear-shattering banshee. How cool.
I have heared here in Eastern Finland when 4 x Rolls Royce Gasturbains (same type engines that are used in Boing 747 airplabes) starts to rotate electric generators during electric shortage periods. Sound is the same as Boing 747 i 1:52 s taking off from airfield during takeoff.
That's incredible. I love this. I'm an industrial generator technician and have never seen anything like this, especially in FL, where standby power generation is so important.
@@estebanamador7601 It is for all those, but it is mostly for peak loading and as an occasional backup of a line goes out. It services a fairly large rural area.
i'm an aero engineer. I've taken a thermodynamics couse that was once considered the most difficult class in the us. many people here don't seem to understand two things: fossil fuels are awesome because they're just so energy dense compared to alternatives. we've also gotten away with using them very inefficiently because the poor conversion doesn't matter when there's so much energy available. in a scenario with increasing negative environmental impacts, and a diminishing supply of fuel, it's imperative that we use these fuels as efficiently as possible, and make due with lower quality renewable fuels when possible. transportation can run on electricity, so do that. heating can be done with heat pumps and electricity, so do that. I'm not going to argue that it's an equal experience, it's definitely worse, but it's worth it if you have any sense of the future your children will grow up in. our society will have to change its structure to deal with the inadequacies of primarily using electricity fueled by renewables. do it, or die in luxury.
@goodnightut This is pretty much for emergencies and black starts in a rural area. It's not efficient, but when it's that or no power, it's desirable and reliable until a better alternative is in place.
@@reusefull oh yes, I agree. these peek load units are necessary and have their economic use cases. there are a bunch of people in the comments that seem to think that because this is kinda awesome, solar, wind, electric cars are useless. I'm addressing those folks. this is a wicked cool apparatus, which is why I studied them, but we do need to work on negating the use of them.
@Alouis Schäfer I'm not really involved in that end of it, but I'm pretty sure that the ability to come on line at full power within minutes even in the event of a complete outage continues to make them valuable as emergency units and for peaking. When demand outpaces generation, the momentary price per Megawatt of power skyrockets exponentially making them profitable to run.
Knew a guy online in Ontario, Canada who lived off the grid. He had a solar array, a wind turbine, and a battery bank. And a diesel generator for long periods of calm cloudy weather.
We have 5 of those in a back up power plant in the city of Vega Baja, Puerto Rico. They are used as back up when one of the main power plants on the island goes offline. They had to build a sound dampening wall around the complex due to neighboring communities complaints about the loud sound.
@@toomanybears_ they are not used to often anymore since other more efficient options have made available and are only brought online on emergencies when larger generators fail. This mostly because they are more expensive to run due to the fuel they use and also the noise level they produce. But believe me, in a big blackout neighbors won't complain about the noise as long as they get the power back.
This reminded me of the generators we had in the USAF in the mid 70's. I was in the 3rd MOB (renamed Combat Comm Group). We went out and set up the communication for remote air bases. For power we had 2 types of generators, diesel and turbine. I seem to remember 10KW but not sure. I know we had a bunch of them when we deployed and we towed them behind our trucks. The turbines sounded a lot like a jet starting and they were quieter than the diesels. Helped me to sleep during the day because the constant sound. They did't sound thing like this but this is a whole lot more power!
I worked at Siemens Westinghouse for 21 years. Aircraft converted power plants are cool, but not as efficient as dual cycle stationary industrial turbines. Those are built for torque, not thrust. Ours weighed in the order of 300 tons.
@@MintMonte87ACSS312 Thanks for the discretion... I missed this comment. It's OK by me. I do work at the SS from time to time, but the video was taken right from the street, so there isn't anything here that anyone wouldn't have access to. 👍
I worked in Prudhoe Bay in the warehouse delivering parts all over the ARCO side (BP had the other side), all three Flow Stations had GE LM1500 turbines compressing the gas being separated from the oil before being sent to the Gas Injection Plant for compression up to 3000 psi to be injected back into the dome. Each Flow Station had a Frame 5 generating electricity for the Station, they are huge. We had several LM1500's in the warehouse in their cans ready to go out if necessary. The scale of everything up there is staggering.
At Rolls Royce we used build stations like this, after the ice storm in 98 Royce’s installed a test Bed near Montreal so they could run turbines to generate power for hospitals in emergency situations
Yes. There is always an engine next to the water filtration plant. At least Montreal can get get running drinking water because of this. I myself worked at rolls Royce.
In the 1970's, I used to help my dad's service engineers doing gas detection at Greenwich Power Station in London. The power station had eight RR Avons running on natural gas. Was this the type of setup used near Montreal?
Sometime in the ‘80s I visited Didcot Power Station in the UK. This was before the combined cycle ‘B’ station was built. As well as the main 2000 MW steam station there was the small 100 MW OCGT station. For anybody who knows Didcot this is what the small chimney with the blue top is for. It had four 25 MW sets, each of which had two Rolls Royce Avons, the gas streams from which were combined via curved ducts into a power turbine mounted between them which drove the main alternator and exciter, I think via a gearbox. They ran on some sort of oil fuel, and were started by battery power. None of them were running when I was there, so I didn’t get to hear what they sounded like. The main station was demolished some years ago, but the OCGT was still there the last time I looked, and I think still sees occasional use. There were also two emergency Diesel generators in another building on the site, but I don’t know what could be powered from them. They were quite small, about the same size as those in a main line Diesel electric locomotive.
"the Speedtronic control panel and closed a panel when a sharp edge shorted out a wire and tripped the unit" Oops!!.. I tripped the frame 9 gas turbine and combined cycle steam turbine when I nudged a relay, working in close proximity to the generator protection panel !!! I worked at the plant in Cork City Ireland from 1985 to 2009. Lots of stories to tell !!
If it is a 2 stroke running at 3,500rpm it would sound like a 4 stroke running at 7,000rpm. First time I started a GD 1150cfm compressor I nearly crapped in my pants, it sounded like it was way over speed. The lead mechanic calmly told me that half the strokes means 2 times the power pulses for the same speed.
The start cart for the SR-71 Blackbird had two Buick 400 hp engines coupled together to start the J-58 engines. One start cart for each engine. People say it was like the start of the Indy 500 since the Buicks had straight pipe off of each cylinder.
I don't know much about Detroit 2 strokes but in my childhood there was a turkey farm up the road from us and the feed trucks had to come down a hill and up the other side on their way. Our driveway was at the low point and as the three cylinder Detroits came down the hill they would stand on it and SCREAM up the other side.
Our local utility has two 50MW (I believe) units about a quarter mile away from our small power plant (University). One day they were doing maintenance and had a gas leak which blew out all of the walls of the building. It didn't kill anyone thankfully, but the pressure wave was so large it went around or over our 30,000 ton coal pile and into our turbine room, then slammed into our control room door like someone kicking it as hard as they could.
I remember in the Chicago suburbs I grew up in had some of these just off a bike trail in a large switching area. Would hear them going full blast during peak summer demand.
Pretty cool... back in the 90s I was in Bakersfield (racing) and a friend headed a crew that just finished rebuilding one of these at an oil field.. it was in "test" run also.. said they had to make sure no vibrations etc... was pretty amazing just how big that thing is walking one end to the other.. I remember feeling it running through the ground..
Very cool, and here I thought the two, twin turbo 399 Cat gensets I maintained on on floating fish processor were big! Combined they put out a little less then 2 megawatts, not even close to that bad dad you shared. Thanks for sharing :)
That's a big one. where I work we have a bunch of Kawasaki turbine generators that run off of natural gas, they use compressed air starting and can be brought up to full power in 1.5 seconds, and they're quieter than the diesel gens, which is saying a lot since our diesels are pretty quiet with the massive mufflers and sound deadening enclosures, and these are huge 20 cylinder diesels identical to what you'd find in a locomotive.
I work in telco at a network switch building. We have a pair of 1.25MW V-16 Cummins diesels for backup power and I thought _these_ were massive. Never seen or heard an actual power plant generator before!
@HuckThis1971 I think this particular one is mostly used for failures, but there was only one transformer for a large area and before they added a second, it saw use as a peaker.
These are everywhere, sitting in bean fields, behind factories, down on the bay and some co-generate the exhaust into steam and spin a steam turbine for power. There made in large packages and some smaller and with different starter packages. Most run a speakers only used at peak usage time. Millwright for over 40 years.
Interesting video. Here in the UK we used to have big 2000MW coal fired power stations with industrial versions of the Olympus jet engines fitted to them that were used on Concorde and Vulcan bombers. These generated 32 MW to get the coal conveyors, coal mills and pumps and fans running in the event of a black start situation. I don't know if they used a diesel to get them going though.
The one in this video is for a rural area, but there is a 400MW coal plant that has a couple of these for black starts, those use compressed air to start.
Any 12-cylinder Detroit sounds amazing at full welly. The hospital where I used to work had three emergency generator sets to supply all its power if Edison was offline, and each set had a quad-turbo Detroit 12V149 that was kept warm and ready to go. When all three were running, their noise during the Wednesday morning weekly tests was amazing: my bus's puny little 6V92TAC tries so hard to sound like them, but it just can't compete! I hope the video's Detroit starter engine was idled for sufficient time to cool down its turbos after it was disconnected from the gas turbine.
The place I worked at at generators in each building, and a large facility generator with a large cat. If power failed, the building generators would start up, and then after 1-2 minutes the facility generator would start, and the building generators would shut down. A large bulk tank of diesel fueled the facility generator, and fuel trucks would come every day during an extended outage.
Ground pounders we called them, I worked in a overhaul shop that repaired many makes and models of gas turbine engines. Some for electrical generation and the others were for aircraft.
That sounds like a really interesting job! This one is fairly purpose built as a generator, but we another Pratt & Whitney that seems a lot closer to a jet engine (it runs on kero/Jet A).
The funny part is I used to start a 12V92 once a week that powered a 1 Megawatt generator we used for standby power. This installation in the video would give around 15 Megawatt. And as far as not a jet engine, Tomato Tomato. Any "jet engine" is a gas turbine.
I used to heard a Euc/Terex R-35 rigid frame haul truck and a TS-24 pan and both had 12V-71 motors with Allison trannys and they were STRONG! And as far as a turbine burning 2K gallons an hour, after they fire, think about it. It's a steady stream at full load. It wouldn't take long.
You should see the size of the detroit diesels on top of the Calgary alberta General Hospital, Huge. Saw them when went to Detroit school in calgary years ago in the 80s.
The office building I worked in had a huge Cat powered backup generator out back. Had a two bank whole building UPS unit to hold until the generator could spin up. One time when the power went out, it turned out one of the battery banks had failed, and when the other one tried to take the whole load it exploded.
it takes a while for that Detroit to spin that turbine up. it's gotta get to like 80% of it's operating RPM before it can light or it'll burn to death, and getting there is taking all that detroit has to offer lmao. I bet the clutch in that gearbox is MASSIVE
Local power company here where I live has three gas turbine generators. I have never heard them in use. I'm on the complete opposite side of town so if they ever did start them up and use them I wouldn't know about it. However I have seen them. And I remember the local newspaper did a story about it when they were purchased and installed.
@badcompany-w6s not all of these combustion turbines start with these engines... many start with air. The start up isn't as impressive, but it's still the sound of a jet engine taking off amen they load up
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity you realize by "excess power" your just talking about total capacity. They dont just "waste" power when its not being used. Your off-peak charging is using as much fuel as any other time
A few years ago I was brought in to decommission a gas turbine set at the old Emery Air Freight headquarters in Wilton Ct. As I recall it was direct coupled via a gearbox that took the 18,000 RPM down to 1,800 RPM for the gen end. It was oil cooled and electric start. This was a standby set for power outages and was installed circa 1970. What they used to keep the building powered while this spooled up was a giant flywheel system that was out in the parking lot. That was basically a mechanical UPS for the mainframe computers in the complex. I have some detailed pictures around here someplace. BTW, the flywheel system was pulled out around 25 years ago so the turbine was collecting dust and talking up space. The new tenant had a better use for all of those square feet.
@@rupe53 Isn't it amazing what we used to build in this country? What we used to design and engineer to solve problems of the day? Like that flywheel UPS backup power supply system for a mainframe. Things like that. I seriously wonder if we could do the same thing today. I worked for GE in the 1980s at their defense contractor business, Knolls Atomic power lab in New York . They needed a variable frequency power supply for a couple of the test systems we had, so they were using a couple of old trolley car track power units to accomplish it. From what I remember it was called the motor generator set. You would start up one unit on 4160 VAC house power and after it got up to speed you would bring online the second unit and the second unit would generate the variable frequency that you needed to run the test facility. These things were huge. Each one was mounted on a concrete base probably 12 or 16 ft tall total. I would say that diameter of the generator was probably about 8 ft or so. I distinctly remember having to go out there in this out building where these two were located, in the middle of winter, around 5 in the morning and start these units. We had to do it early in the morning because it was such a draw on the local power grid the power company would get pissed if we pulled the grid down during rush hour. I swear for a young guy in his twenties, this was something like out of a science fiction movie. The switch gear was in like a locker and when that thing closed it was like lightning bolts inside the metal box. Again amazing technology for the day, and from what I was told, those units were eventually pulled out by helicopter and replaced with a couple of units the size of a refrigerator to do the same thing. I hope we can do the same kind of engineering problem solving today but I'm not completely confident. Let's hope so.
The white lake jet. That one is a Pratt & Whitney. I have a video of that one running also, but it starts with compressed air instead of a Detroit Diesel.
Generally, the turbines are started with compressed air from a compressor driven by the diesel engine. This can also be accomplished with stored compressed air. Cylinders with high pressure compressed air (3000 psi). The air is reduced to a low pressure, high volume flow of air to spin the turbine.
Wow a Motown Stroker spinning up a gas turbine , very like the Bristol Siddeley Olympus Genny sets used in UK Gas Turbine Power Stations. Love the scream of that GE Turbine spinning up to full load, though most gas turbines are started on compressed air.
@Lester Wilson I believe it's a battery system either way, but when the grid is up, the battery is on a charger powered by AC. A lot of substation/generation critical systems operate like that so the equipment is powered from the same source independent from relying on the grid. That way there isn't any transition that has to take place in the event of an outage, the equipment still operates like it's supposed to if it is called upon.
ruclips.net/video/8meEGvh28o8/видео.html 22MW jet generator starting with compressed air and then being loaded.
GG4/FT4?
It's not a jet engine. This is a Frame 5 GE Heavy duty single shaft gas turbine generator that runs at 5100 RPM and through a gearbox turns a generator at 3600 rpm. I installed and serviced GE Frame 3's, Frame 5's, Frame 6 and Frame 7 gas turbine generator drives.
I can't tell from the outside but my guess is that this is a simple cycle Load Peaking version of Frame 5 unit that puts out 24 Megawatts.
The diesel engine starting units I saw all had Detroit 12V-71 twin turbo 600hp engines. Are you sure its a 12V-92? Some very old ones used 350hp Cummins V-8 engines. I have had tons of these units apart and have casings 3-6 inches thick, the turbine and generator rotors each weigh several tons, and there are no aircraft parts in them at all as compared to a ''light weight'' aero derivative GE LM2500 which was based on a DC-10 jet engine.
This particular gas turbine can be remotely started. It has black start capability with the diesel and can be readied to be put online with no external grid power available. Some are electric motor started and some have steam turbine start. What you hear at the end of the video is pretty much like it sounds at full load. There is no thunder!
That exhaust stack at 1:30 has turned blue because of massive amounts of hot air at 1000 degrees F coming out of a 13x13 foot stack. The diesel is inside the accessory cab which has the 5 black radiator inlets toward the right, and the round fan housing on top.
The turbine air inlet is the stack with the snow on top. The generator cab is on the far left. The Accessory, Turbine, and Generator and Control cabs were designed to fit through railroad tunnels throughout the world. They are easily set on a massive concrete foundation where they are bolted down, piped, then aligned, and all of the external pieces are added. It takes about 3-6months to put one together. Fun fact...it has 2 spark plugs. They retract from the combustion liners as the compressor discharge pressure builds up.
I blacked out the entire East side of Lake Maracaibo in Venezuela long ago when one unit was down for maintenance and the other was at full load. I was behind the Speedtronic control panel and closed a panel when a sharp edge shorted out a wire and tripped the unit off line. The Hotel at Mene Grande was pissed off at me. Thanks for the memories. I hope you don't mind a few corrections!
Thanks for all the detailed information! We had 4 similar units around the state, but the other 3 are air starting units. This is the only one that uses a Detroit. It's definitely a Detroit, but we sold off generation so I no longer had access to the units. You're probably right about it being 12v71... I know it's 12 cylinder and I know it's twin turbo, but I couldn't remember the displacement, so I guessed based on what the different models looked like.
This one is used to power a rural area in the event of a line outage or substation equipment failure. There are 2 together that are black start units in case of a state or larger region wide power failure and the grid has to start from zero. I have a video of one of them running and loading up... it seems to have that plane-like rumble when it gets freighted.
The last unit is one that I had been told was more of a plane engine based unit. That one runs on #1 as opposed to the one in this video that runs on #2. I'm not sure what the other 2 that I mentioned run on, but they are also used for peaking... I don't think we've ever had to black start the state. Definitely not in the 18 years I've been in substations.
Again, I appreciate the knowledge and detail... maybe if you get a chance you can check my other turbine generator video out and add any information you would like to in the comments, thank you!
@@reusefull I will look at your other videos! This part of my life as a GE Field Engineer is full of cobwebs! I started remembering lots of things. After leaving the International Department of GE, I asked to be assigned to California. They put me in the GE San Francisco Marine Department because very few people had gas turbine experience and Chevron had 5 oil tankers in the area. Each one powered by a 7500 hp GE Frame 3 two shaft gas turbine driving a generator which drove an electric motor that turns the ship's propeller. Over the years I ran the overhauls on them all.
But GE wanted me to be a ''one size fits all'' Engineer, so they had me all over steam turbine powered ships, nuke powered aircraft carriers, fast attack subs, and all kinds of classified ships and locations. I spent a lot of time around Prudhoe Bay as everything on the North Slope is gas turbine powered. For a while, I was troubleshooting a bunch of non GE machinery, even boilers, pumps, Woodward governors. Diagnose the stuff, have their crew fix it, then everybody was happy.
Those days were fun and I dove in to whatever they assigned me to no matter how weird it was. But I was away for months on end and that started getting really old. I quit. Besides, GE wanted me to take High Voltage Training to be able to run substation repair jobs. Sure. Why not astronaut training as well. Before I said no, some poor kid fresh out of the HV Training School got fried when he got up an personal with a huge transformer that was not tagged out. I told them no after that. Thanks for keeping the lights on back there!
@@kimmer6 thank you for sharing the information!!!
@@rearspeaker6364 You're welcome. Wow, I sure get wordy when I drink and type!
@@kimmer6 LOL, I do the same thing! But you did give some really good information
Imagine it’s perfectly quiet and you mistakenly camped nearby thinking it was gonna be a relaxing weekend
🤣
That's what you get for reserving an electric site...
I once camped in the Columbia Gorge. And over that night, FIVE freight trains came by, about 100 feet from my campsite. I did not sleep well.
@@BaribrotzerOh dear!!
Detroit Diesel two strokes are not just noise generators but supremely reliable and dependable engines. My favourite engine of all time.
And will lubricate your undercarriage, keeping it rust free! 🤣 Great engines, although they leak enough oil to make Shell Oil smile.
@Honor America DD don't leak thats just them marking territory. Dependable? Yup, the 4/71 GM ('54 block) in my boat was inframed in '86 and is still strong with no sign of any problem. Love my lil green meanie.
When they idle for 5 minutes or longer then you rev it up they belch out a cloud of black smoke that'd rival the eruption of Mt St Helens.
I lived in the hull of an armored vehicle for 3 years of my life that was powered by a V6 two stroke Detroit Diesel, I'm familiar enough with them to know that they could have saved themselves the time and money of making a throttle assembly for the vehicle and just used a toggle switch marked idle and run because you never ran the engine anywhere in between, after I got out of the Army I talked to some old time truck drivers who said the best way to get one of those two stroke Detroit Diesel engine's to run is to slam the truck door on your hand when you're getting into it, drive angry or you won't get anywhere fast.
@@urgentcareguy3 “Green leaker” and “driptroit” come to mind! I’ve had pretty good luck with leaks but mostly dealing with detroits as ships generators. Put air box drain catch can/tank on them solves that leak, anything else leaking can be fixed. You could eat off the floor in one of our generator rooms even with three 12v149’s screaming away in there.
But..... will it start in zero degree weather?????
12 cylinder pony motor, WOW!
That's what really impressed me for sure.
Right? Holy fuck
That's not normal jet turbine lol
GE frame 5 rotor weighs about 10 tons, the generator pickle weighs 10 tons, add to that the accessory and load gearboxes. That's a huge amount of mass to accelerate to a self-sustaining speed.
Dear Mark N.
Don't forget the 2 ! Turbos on it!
Best regards luck and health.
I like reading the comments telling stories about professionals past experiences with these. I'm a year out of welding school and hoping to have memories like these one day.
Love these sorts of videos. Big Detroit Diesel and turbine engines, enough output to power a medium sized town. Love the hidden infrastructure that maintain our world.
We have a Pratt & Whitney Jet (and it's an actual JET engine) with a similar output. It has an air start supplied from a 450psi reservoir. From the time I push the button, it will be synched and on-line in 8-9 minutes and will autoload to up to 24 MW's depending on the ambient temperature. We use water injection for NOx control. There used to be two of these P&W jets at my plant, but one was removed in 2004 and not returned due to permitting issues (we're in the middle of a big city). For 40+ years they ran on Jet "A" but were converted to run on No. 2 ultra low sulfur distillate a few years back. The jet gives us black start capability.
The plant's prime mover is a GE 7F gas turbine which powers a 175 MW (nominal) generator. This runs on either natural gas or the same No. 2 oil as the Jet. We're permitted to run the big machine on liquid fuel up to 720 hours a year. The exhaust from the CT is used to make steam in a HRSG which in turn runs a 1300-200psi Back Pressure Steam turbine which supplies steam to a large district heating system.
That be fun job playing maintenance
One of our other units is a 24 MW Pratt & Whitney that runs on Jet A. It definitely looks like a jet to my eyes when I see it, but I don't work on those, We seperated from generation a few years ago so now I just work in the yards where they are, and see them do test runs occasionally. It's just for peaking/emergencies and black start.
And they want to run the world on solar panels..............
Do you actually know the difference between a jet engine and a turbine? How do you make electricity with your jet engine? Is it mounted on some sort of cart that drives around and is pulling a generator? A jet engine delivers thrust and nothing else.
@SuperDirk1965 I understand that there is a shaft connected to it and so that makes it a combustion turbine, but when you're standing there looking at the thing with your eyes, your brain says to you... "that's a jet engine" and when when your listening to it spool up and load up with your ears your brain is again telling you "that's a jet engine"... particularly the Pratt and Whitney unit that fires on compressed air.
Noise generator starting a jet generator. Epic!!
Both on fossil fuels by the way
The best device ever invented to convert diesel fuel to noise...Detroit Diesel. ...love em
@@Blazefork 😄
@@Blazefork lol yeap
@JFinnerud Not as epic as a Commander Keen avatar!
I came for the video, but stayed for the comments! Wow!
*Fun Fact* This is where all the EVs actually get their power.
*Edit (Thanks for the upvotes for this silly thread. )
Now, dance my pretties, dance! 😋
Fun fact number 2, a turbine power generation station is more efficient than a piston internal combustion engine. So even if an electric car used 100% coal generated power it would still be more efficient to use an electric car rather than an internal combustion engine. Go look up the studies this is all well documented information based on the efficiencies of each type of energy generation. And since natural gas is now the largest contributor to the electrical grid it is even more efficient than when using coal. And if we would allow our industries to build more nuclear power generation then it would negate the issue entirely.
@@winstonpoplin Nope. Don't fall for the lies behind EV's or recycling or environmental anything.
The typical modern Natural Gas fueled jet turbine generator is only around 25 to 35% efficient.
The national electrical grid is only around 30 to 40% efficient.
The typical EV has around 70 to 80% charge to drive efficiency.
.25 x .3 x .7 = ~ *5.2%* to
.35 x .4 x .8 = ~ *11.2%*
Vs the average gasoline-burning vehicle at around 25 to 30% efficient.
(~35 to 40% with high-efficiency non-emissions compliant engine designs.)
Or the average diesel vehicle at around 35 to 40% efficiency.
(~43 to 48% with high-efficiency non-emissions compliant engine designs.)
All of this is fact checkable too. 😉
@tcmtech7515 It's like you didn't even research the topic before replying to this. Here is a basic quote describing the numbers involved as well as several links to sites that have good graphics that may make it easier for you to understand.
"Although the EV motor is more efficient than the internal combustion engine, the well to wheel (WTW) efficiency should be investigated in terms of determining the overall energy efficiency. In simple words, this study will try to answer the basic question - is the electric car really energy efficient compared with ICE-powered vehicles? This study investigates the WTW efficiency of conventional internal combustion engine vehicles ICEVs (gasoline, diesel), compressed natural gas vehicles (CNGV) and EVs. The results show that power plant efficiency has a significant consequence on WTW efficiency. The total WTW efficiency of gasoline ICEV ranges between 11-27 %, diesel ICEV ranges from 25 % to 37 % and CNGV ranges from 12 % to 22 %. The EV fed by a natural gas power plant shows the highest WTW efficiency which ranges from 13 % to 31 %. While the EV supplied by coal-fired and diesel power plants have approximately the same WTW efficiency ranging between 13 % to 27 % and 12 % to 25 %, respectively. If renewable energy is used, the losses will drop significantly and the overall efficiency for electric cars will be around 40-70% depending on the source and the location of the renewable energy systems." Its really all quite well established.
www.energycouncil.com.au/analysis/evs-are-they-really-more-efficient/
www.google.com/amp/s/www.motortrend.com/news/evs-more-efficient-than-internal-combustion-engines/amp/
ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2020SJRUE..24..669A/abstract#:~:text=The%20total%20WTW%20efficiency%20of,from%2013%20%25%20to%2031%20%25.
It is not conducive or beneficial to a learning enviornment to post information as if it is factual when a simple google search and reading over a few studies can show the truth of the situation.
@@winstonpoplin Thanks for showing the same numbers I used while simultaneously trying to argue from a point of highly specific semantics, despite the greater average numbers of what you linked to supporting what I said.
You do know that where most of the EV's are located they are at the farthest points away from where the high-efficiency NG and Coal-fired baseload (Steam based) power plants are located, right? 🤨
@@tcmtech7515 Average CO2 emissions per kWh per country is what counts. Therefore an EV is always less polluting than a comparable combustion engine car. Even in carbon heavy countries like Poland.
Ahh Lost Nation CT, I always was curious how it sounded when starting, glad to know it’s finally fixed. It’ll get a work out this winter for sure. Thanks for the videos.
NH
@@reusefull CT == combustion turbine, I definitely know Connecticut doesn’t have snow on the ground. I’m just glad you guys were able to finally fix the unit, hope she’s in tip top shape she’ll be burning through fuel this winter.
@@740GLE Ok... gotcha. I'm out of touch on that unit. The company sold off generation, so I'm no longer involved. Just with the S/S that's across the street.
WOW! The 12 cylinder Detroit is a pretty strong generator itself.
When I was going through automotive trade school in N.E. Ohio during the late eighties. I worked at an industrial radiator repair business. We re-cored those massive industrial radiators used in these supplemental generators. The radiators alone can weigh several tons. That's when I learned about waterless coolant. It's awesome stuff. It doesn't expand when it gets hot like traditional antifreeze, meaning you don't need a high pressure cooling system to keep the water, like in traditional water mixed automotive antifreeze, from gassing (boiling) because there isn't any water in it. When you don't have to also make the radiator a pressure vessel, it significantly decreases unit cost and increases the units life. I now put 'Evan's' brand waterless coolant and a 3 psi radiator cap in all of my vehicles and I haven't had a cooling system problem since. When radiators and heater cores are constantly being expanded under pressure, they eventually fail. Especially modern automotive radiators with 'plastic' tanks. It's awesome stuff. It was made for industrial applications but now, You can just buy it right on Amazon. I heard about Evan's 9-10 years ago finally being available to consumers and I've been using Evan's Waterless Coolant ever since. I swear by the stuff.
Great information! Thanks for sharing! I'll check it out.
waddup from Cleveland bud ✌️
Cinci represent
Do you know what the composition of the waterless coolant is? I'm guessing it won't be a hydrocarbon liquid, because that would be too flammable and not have enough heat capacity to replace water in the cooling system. Waterless coolant is not a new idea - aircraft engines in world war 2 used pure ethylene glycol as coolant all the time without a problem. Glycol has about 60% the heat capacity of water, so it does need to be pumped a bit faster, but the boiling point is much higher so the radiator can be smaller for the same heat dissipation. With all that in mind, I'm guessing that the waterless coolant is a glycol blend of some sort - does it appear to have a higher viscosity than water when you pour it?
Interesting!
I guess that waterless coolant also has superb qualities when it comes to corrosion and material compatibility like gaskets, rubber hoses.
What about cavitation? Thats critical with some engines.
I really like using products that are meant for industrial use because its always good stuff.
I maintained 12v149 Detroit’s as ships generators for years. Slept many nights above three of those quad turbo/twin blower monsters...
I was a crewman on an M113 based chassis in the Army, in the summer evenings I'd sleep on the engine's exhaust grate where all the heat from the engine compartment cooling off after being shut down would rise up through it.
16V149TI on a lot of USN ships with 1000kw gen sets.
How ?
Absolutely love the sound of a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel going flat out, especially a 12.
I worked at a mulch place that had a huge grinding machine with a twin turbo V12 diesel. Sometimes the grinding stones would hit a sledgehammer head in the bark pile and it would throw it a few hundred feet into the woods. It was impressive.
You KNOW somebody is out there right now thinking, "How can fit this under my hood?" Thanks for the vid, the sound of sheer power!
I had to do it... 😂
It doesn't go under the hood it goes in the bed of a pickup that is pulling a semi tanker to feed this beast!
@Jeff Harper yup. I'm not sure how much fuel the detroit uses, but the turbine goes through almost 2000 gallons an hour when it's loaded
You know it!
Guys like Art Arfons (rip) already did this 30+ years ago on outlaw tractor pull tractors, look up "The Green Monster" "Dragon Lady" and "The General" they all used turbines.
Very cool, some serious power! Now now you got tree huggers all upset, but least they are warm 🤣
I am an ex diesel automotive mechanic and drive an EV. Still love the old iron, grew up with Detroit eartmovers but like dinasaurs their time is running out. My favorite ICE sound is aero radials, very rare now.
@@howardsimpson489EVs are dead, nice fad for a couple years but people don’t like paying $50,000 for a battery
Personally waiting for hydrogen
Good thing they have these, wouldn't want thier electric cars to run out of juice
We have one of these 12V92’s at the health care facility, (I work engineering and maintenance) as the emergency diesel generator. It’s 33 years old and runs like a clock. That isn’t stopping the stupid health system from wanting to replace it. Dumbasses! It is a wonderful machine.
Back in the 80's ,I worked at Detroit Diesel Research Lab in Detroit. I worked on 53, 71, Silver 92 , 60 and 149 series. The 149 was my favorite of them all.
I would love to see 24v149 in person
@@ericrehagen4194.... There is NO "24v149". The largest Series 149 was the 20 cylinder, and Not very many were ever built.... but quite a few of the V12's and V16's. There weren't a lot of the V8's, either. The only V6's ever made were for when they were assembling a V20... with a V6, V8 & V6. The Only V24 (from Stewart & Stevenson) were built using two V12's (Series 71).
Now that’s an impressive setup in many ways. Love the sounds and whole concept too. Would love to see inside the building as well!
We used to have a Pratt and Whitney Twin PAC 40 MWe at our power plant. It could remotely start a go to full load in three minutes. We almost always locally manually started it for summer peak loads. Overspeed testing was really cool!
Superb episode, thanks. Cast off all lines fore and aft! Ah…so windmills and solar panels are supposed to replace diesel fuel, coal & nuclear energy power generation? Maybe in 200 years from now. Carry on!
Got to love those Detroit diesel engines
Wow, a buzzing dozen just for a starter! Incredible
That's what I thought... holy **** that's a starter!!
Engineer: we don't need mufflers it's only a starter engine
Company: Well done for saving us money
Engineer: Guys, listen to this
It's a very cool experience to be in the control room hearing that Detroit scream then the shrill turbine sound.
Nice!
When I worked inside the NORAD Cheyenne Mountain Complex, we had 6 Six Cooper Enterprise R3 diesel gensets that generated 10.5 mw to power the complex in an emergency.
The noise in a confined space is horrendous, thank goodness for ear protection and soundproof control rooms.
Yup. In the generation plants, some rooms required double ear protection.
10.5 MW each or total for the 6? I have a hard time believing the entire Cheyenne Mountain complex consumes 60MW.
@@erikkovacs3097 the stargate requires a ton of power.
@@erikkovacs3097 10.5 total capability, but that would not account for redundancy so most likely the entire complex consumes around 2.8MW at peak consumption.
@@WhitfieldProductionsTV Didn't they use jumper cables in one episode?
Deep in the primeval forest, kingdom of nature's repose and silence, sanctuary from the cacophony of modern life, is this shrieking ear-shattering banshee. How cool.
I have heared here in Eastern Finland when 4 x Rolls Royce Gasturbains (same type engines that are used in Boing 747 airplabes) starts to rotate electric generators during electric shortage periods. Sound is the same as Boing 747 i 1:52 s taking off from airfield during takeoff.
That's incredible. I love this. I'm an industrial generator technician and have never seen anything like this, especially in FL, where standby power generation is so important.
Most of ours start with compressed air, but this one is special!
@@reusefull is this one in PA?
@@scrapmanindustries NH
@@reusefull when does it starts? Peak loading, stand by, black start?
@@estebanamador7601 It is for all those, but it is mostly for peak loading and as an occasional backup of a line goes out. It services a fairly large rural area.
I live right next to that thing. My noise cancelling headphones are just the bomb.
i'm an aero engineer. I've taken a thermodynamics couse that was once considered the most difficult class in the us. many people here don't seem to understand two things: fossil fuels are awesome because they're just so energy dense compared to alternatives. we've also gotten away with using them very inefficiently because the poor conversion doesn't matter when there's so much energy available.
in a scenario with increasing negative environmental impacts, and a diminishing supply of fuel, it's imperative that we use these fuels as efficiently as possible, and make due with lower quality renewable fuels when possible. transportation can run on electricity, so do that. heating can be done with heat pumps and electricity, so do that. I'm not going to argue that it's an equal experience, it's definitely worse, but it's worth it if you have any sense of the future your children will grow up in.
our society will have to change its structure to deal with the inadequacies of primarily using electricity fueled by renewables. do it, or die in luxury.
@goodnightut This is pretty much for emergencies and black starts in a rural area. It's not efficient, but when it's that or no power, it's desirable and reliable until a better alternative is in place.
@@reusefull oh yes, I agree. these peek load units are necessary and have their economic use cases.
there are a bunch of people in the comments that seem to think that because this is kinda awesome, solar, wind, electric cars are useless. I'm addressing those folks.
this is a wicked cool apparatus, which is why I studied them, but we do need to work on negating the use of them.
@goodnightut everything in its place👍
That’s what is required on the grid when the renewables don’t generate.
You will see more and more synchronous condensers on the system as renewables produce more power.
Setups like these have their days numbered I mean just the fuel must be expensive enough to justify replacement.
@Alouis Schäfer I'm not really involved in that end of it, but I'm pretty sure that the ability to come on line at full power within minutes even in the event of a complete outage continues to make them valuable as emergency units and for peaking. When demand outpaces generation, the momentary price per Megawatt of power skyrockets exponentially making them profitable to run.
Knew a guy online in Ontario, Canada who lived off the grid. He had a solar array, a wind turbine, and a battery bank. And a diesel generator for long periods of calm cloudy weather.
You need diesel or methanol.
We have 5 of those in a back up power plant in the city of Vega Baja, Puerto Rico. They are used as back up when one of the main power plants on the island goes offline. They had to build a sound dampening wall around the complex due to neighboring communities complaints about the loud sound.
If they bitch about the sound too much just shut them down and give them something to really bitch about.
@@toomanybears_ they are not used to often anymore since other more efficient options have made available and are only brought online on emergencies when larger generators fail. This mostly because they are more expensive to run due to the fuel they use and also the noise level they produce. But believe me, in a big blackout neighbors won't complain about the noise as long as they get the power back.
This reminded me of the generators we had in the USAF in the mid 70's. I was in the 3rd MOB (renamed Combat Comm Group). We went out and set up the communication for remote air bases. For power we had 2 types of generators, diesel and turbine. I seem to remember 10KW but not sure. I know we had a bunch of them when we deployed and we towed them behind our trucks. The turbines sounded a lot like a jet starting and they were quieter than the diesels. Helped me to sleep during the day because the constant sound. They did't sound thing like this but this is a whole lot more power!
I like the sound of a big diesel genny turning 1800 rpm... it's soothing to me haha. Like you said, this thing is a whole different animal!
I worked at Siemens Westinghouse for 21 years. Aircraft converted power plants are cool, but not as efficient as dual cycle stationary industrial turbines. Those are built for torque, not thrust. Ours weighed in the order of 300 tons.
Right around the corner from my house. This thing is insane, can hear it for about a mile.
Where is this?
@@fiatman71 I don’t really want to disclose that just incase the poster works here. If the original author says it’s okay I will.
@@MintMonte87ACSS312 Thanks for the discretion... I missed this comment. It's OK by me. I do work at the SS from time to time, but the video was taken right from the street, so there isn't anything here that anyone wouldn't have access to. 👍
This is not a regular "jet engine" ! This a "diesel turbine" ! The same type used on Navy Ships and some large yachts !
Hell, you KNOW it's a bigass motor when you have a 12V92 as a pony motor starter!
Yes sir
I worked in Prudhoe Bay in the warehouse delivering parts all over the ARCO side (BP had the other side), all three Flow Stations had GE LM1500 turbines compressing the gas being separated from the oil before being sent to the Gas Injection Plant for compression up to 3000 psi to be injected back into the dome. Each Flow Station had a Frame 5 generating electricity for the Station, they are huge. We had several LM1500's in the warehouse in their cans ready to go out if necessary. The scale of everything up there is staggering.
Sounds impressive for sure👍
At Rolls Royce we used build stations like this, after the ice storm in 98 Royce’s installed a test Bed near Montreal so they could run turbines to generate power for hospitals in emergency situations
Yes. There is always an engine next to the water filtration plant. At least Montreal can get get running drinking water because of this. I myself worked at rolls Royce.
@@HuckThis1971 yes I worked at both plants back in the early 80’s.
In the 1970's, I used to help my dad's service engineers doing gas detection at Greenwich Power Station in London. The power station had eight RR Avons running on natural gas. Was this the type of setup used near Montreal?
Sometime in the ‘80s I visited Didcot Power Station in the UK. This was before the combined cycle ‘B’ station was built. As well as the main 2000 MW steam station there was the small 100 MW OCGT station. For anybody who knows Didcot this is what the small chimney with the blue top is for. It had four 25 MW sets, each of which had two Rolls Royce Avons, the gas streams from which were combined via curved ducts into a power turbine mounted between them which drove the main alternator and exciter, I think via a gearbox. They ran on some sort of oil fuel, and were started by battery power. None of them were running when I was there, so I didn’t get to hear what they sounded like. The main station was demolished some years ago, but the OCGT was still there the last time I looked, and I think still sees occasional use.
There were also two emergency Diesel generators in another building on the site, but I don’t know what could be powered from them. They were quite small, about the same size as those in a main line Diesel electric locomotive.
"the Speedtronic control panel and closed a panel when a sharp edge shorted out a wire and tripped the unit" Oops!!.. I tripped the frame 9 gas turbine and combined cycle steam turbine when I nudged a relay, working in close proximity to the generator protection panel !!! I worked at the plant in Cork City Ireland from 1985 to 2009. Lots of stories to tell !!
That 2-stroke V12 sound though! That thing sounds crazy for a diesel, as if it revs at 7000 RPM. It doesn't of course, but it sure sounds that way.
Yes sir!
If it is a 2 stroke running at 3,500rpm it would sound like a 4 stroke running at 7,000rpm. First time I started a GD 1150cfm compressor I nearly crapped in my pants, it sounded like it was way over speed. The lead mechanic calmly told me that half the strokes means 2 times the power pulses for the same speed.
@@pjford1118 Indeed. For power density, you can't beat a 2 stroke engine, gas or diesel. The issue is how wasteful and dirty they are.
@@Gersberms Can't deny that, these mofos stain everything in range 😂
@@Gersberms and low power for the size that they were... 🤷🏻
That sounds just like the vacuum cleaner I returned to Amazon last month. On Monday it sang like a bird on Tuesday it nearly ruptured my eardrums!
I love hearing these stories! Union millwright here. Worked on some big shit but not that big super dope!
The start cart for the SR-71 Blackbird had two Buick 400 hp engines coupled together to start the J-58 engines. One start cart for each engine. People say it was like the start of the Indy 500 since the Buicks had straight pipe off of each cylinder.
I have heard about that... "sounds" pretty impressive! Going to a gran prix race is on my list.
A 12 cil Detroit as a starter motor. That alone makes it amazing.
that is what is called a "pony motor".
I don't know much about Detroit 2 strokes but in my childhood there was a turkey farm up the road from us and the feed trucks had to come down a hill and up the other side on their way. Our driveway was at the low point and as the three cylinder Detroits came down the hill they would stand on it and SCREAM up the other side.
They hit every stroke instead of every other stroke like a normal 4 stroke engine, so it sounds like they're going at twice the rpm... they scream!
That high pitched scream is what my tinitus sounds like just not NEARLY as loud.
Our local utility has two 50MW (I believe) units about a quarter mile away from our small power plant (University). One day they were doing maintenance and had a gas leak which blew out all of the walls of the building. It didn't kill anyone thankfully, but the pressure wave was so large it went around or over our 30,000 ton coal pile and into our turbine room, then slammed into our control room door like someone kicking it as hard as they could.
I remember in the Chicago suburbs I grew up in had some of these just off a bike trail in a large switching area. Would hear them going full blast during peak summer demand.
Pretty cool... back in the 90s I was in Bakersfield (racing) and a friend headed a crew that just finished rebuilding one of these at an oil field.. it was in "test" run also.. said they had to make sure no vibrations etc... was pretty amazing just how big that thing is walking one end to the other.. I remember feeling it running through the ground..
The idea of a 12 cylinder starter engine just blows me away. They're pretty impressive when they run.
Thats someone who really knows what they are talking about im impressed🥃
Very cool, and here I thought the two, twin turbo 399 Cat gensets I maintained on on floating fish processor were big! Combined they put out a little less then 2 megawatts, not even close to that bad dad you shared.
Thanks for sharing :)
It's pretty impressive to me when I see it fire up!
There's always a bigger fish
That's a big one. where I work we have a bunch of Kawasaki turbine generators that run off of natural gas, they use compressed air starting and can be brought up to full power in 1.5 seconds, and they're quieter than the diesel gens, which is saying a lot since our diesels are pretty quiet with the massive mufflers and sound deadening enclosures, and these are huge 20 cylinder diesels identical to what you'd find in a locomotive.
The generator thinking: A'right, guess I'll just follow along then 🤭
Thank goodness for environmental noise regulations and the acoustical consultants who design noise control for these necessary units.
I want that diesel, "for my square body pick-up". (thumbs up)
Yes!
your pickup needs a 16V-149 in it, it will fit perfectly!
@@rearspeaker6364 LOL. (Happy Turkey Day.)
an ole buddy once told me “hell it wud drag tha ground an stick out of tha hood @ tha same time “ never have forgot that thought
@@rsmith3033 sounds like certain parts of a male body while in use at night..........
I work in telco at a network switch building. We have a pair of 1.25MW V-16 Cummins diesels for backup power and I thought _these_ were massive. Never seen or heard an actual power plant generator before!
The old 2 stroke diesel is what really makes it sound like that. The thing's a dinosaur, but it does its job like a champ.
@@reusefull I'm sure! But I hope it leaks less than road going Detroits are traditionally known for lol
@@nthgth 🤣🤣🤣
Where is this? Alaska? BC? Almost reminds me of the story of how they started up the SR71 Jet engines with Buick small block and Chevy 454 V8s
It is in northern New England, tied into the New England power grid for use during peaking and emergencies/outages in the region.
@@reusefull Strange. Québec supplies electricity at a lower rate than Québecers pays. I think it's used more for power failures.
@HuckThis1971 I think this particular one is mostly used for failures, but there was only one transformer for a large area and before they added a second, it saw use as a peaker.
These are everywhere, sitting in bean fields, behind factories, down on the bay and some co-generate the exhaust into steam and spin a steam turbine for power. There made in large packages and some smaller and with different starter packages. Most run a speakers only used at peak usage time. Millwright for over 40 years.
I work on industrial generators and never knew anything like this existed. Fricken amazing
Impressive to me! I bet a real kick out of a Detroit diesel that's a starter...
Interesting video. Here in the UK we used to have big 2000MW coal fired power stations with industrial versions of the Olympus jet engines fitted to them that were used on Concorde and Vulcan bombers. These generated 32 MW to get the coal conveyors, coal mills and pumps and fans running in the event of a black start situation. I don't know if they used a diesel to get them going though.
The one in this video is for a rural area, but there is a 400MW coal plant that has a couple of these for black starts, those use compressed air to start.
1100 ci = 18 L
I worked for a company in Arkansas that built air filtering units for these. The town over install a couple to cut the peak on their electric usage.
Any 12-cylinder Detroit sounds amazing at full welly. The hospital where I used to work had three emergency generator sets to supply all its power if Edison was offline, and each set had a quad-turbo Detroit 12V149 that was kept warm and ready to go. When all three were running, their noise during the Wednesday morning weekly tests was amazing: my bus's puny little 6V92TAC tries so hard to sound like them, but it just can't compete!
I hope the video's Detroit starter engine was idled for sufficient time to cool down its turbos after it was disconnected from the gas turbine.
The place I worked at at generators in each building, and a large facility generator with a large cat. If power failed, the building generators would start up, and then after 1-2 minutes the facility generator would start, and the building generators would shut down. A large bulk tank of diesel fueled the facility generator, and fuel trucks would come every day during an extended outage.
Ran an off road MACK with the 6V in it to supply fire-lines in the forests here one summer... was told crews could hear ne coming for miles 👍
Any DD 2-Stroke sounds amazing. Fixed it for you.
Did not realise they made a 149 series.. wow. That's 1788c.i.
@@Ayeobe I didn't either! I wonder if it would fit in my Silverado :3
Ground pounders we called them, I worked in a overhaul shop that repaired many makes and models of gas turbine engines. Some for electrical generation and the others were for aircraft.
That sounds like a really interesting job! This one is fairly purpose built as a generator, but we another Pratt & Whitney that seems a lot closer to a jet engine (it runs on kero/Jet A).
The funny part is I used to start a 12V92 once a week that powered a 1 Megawatt generator we used for standby power. This installation in the video would give around 15 Megawatt. And as far as not a jet engine, Tomato Tomato. Any "jet engine" is a gas turbine.
I used to heard a Euc/Terex R-35 rigid frame haul truck and a TS-24 pan and both had 12V-71 motors with Allison trannys and they were STRONG! And as far as a turbine burning 2K gallons an hour, after they fire, think about it. It's a steady stream at full load. It wouldn't take long.
You should see the size of the detroit diesels on top of the Calgary alberta General Hospital, Huge. Saw them when went to Detroit school in calgary years ago in the 80s.
The office building I worked in had a huge Cat powered backup generator out back. Had a two bank whole building UPS unit to hold until the generator could spin up. One time when the power went out, it turned out one of the battery banks had failed, and when the other one tried to take the whole load it exploded.
They're waiting for you Gordon. In the tesssst chamberrrrr.
Reminds me of the old way SR-71 engine was started. Except it use twin Buick Hotrod engine 😅
Not Oldsmobile?
@@andyking9673 no, original start carts had twin Buick 401 nailhead engines in them, later on, they used twin 454 chevy engines in them.
@@rearspeaker6364 the only on I got close to had a Oldsmobile 455 engine. As a 442 fan I thought that was cool
I used to have an old electra with a nailhead... pretty fond of those 👍
@@rearspeaker6364 The ‘bird at Evergreen museum in McMinnville OR has a Buick powered unit with it.
Wow, look at them nice blue stains on that stack--HOT STUFF COMIN' THROUGH! Nice vid, pardner.
I love the lack of context in the description, it really makes this video make sense.
1:08 every cs:go lobby in match mid point back in the day :D
it takes a while for that Detroit to spin that turbine up. it's gotta get to like 80% of it's operating RPM before it can light or it'll burn to death, and getting there is taking all that detroit has to offer lmao. I bet the clutch in that gearbox is MASSIVE
I’ve got a v6 2 stroke screaming Detroit in an air compressor. I love that machine. Leaks burns a lot of fuel and is loud as fuc$!!!!!!
Nice!
That sound made me think the only way anyone standing in there is either deaf or with shooting range quality ear muffs.
Local power company here where I live has three gas turbine generators. I have never heard them in use. I'm on the complete opposite side of town so if they ever did start them up and use them I wouldn't know about it. However I have seen them. And I remember the local newspaper did a story about it when they were purchased and installed.
@badcompany-w6s not all of these combustion turbines start with these engines... many start with air. The start up isn't as impressive, but it's still the sound of a jet engine taking off amen they load up
Getting ready to charge all the e.v's. lol
😂
No, we do that at night when there’s excess power. Or we charge with our own 33kW solar system during the day.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity rectal massage. You typed in a bunch of words but all it says is rectal massage.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity you realize by "excess power" your just talking about total capacity. They dont just "waste" power when its not being used. Your off-peak charging is using as much fuel as any other time
@@BrokeWrench Highfleet Sevastopol crew: "turbines operational!"
Bet the wildlife love it! Warms up the immediate area, too!
Very cool!!
Great black start capability there!
Indeed! It's also for backup in a rural area in case the 115kv transmission line goes out.
the buzzin dozen does it again
More correctly "dirty dozen".
During my years of Fuel Hauling I delivered Fuel to Several PPL Turbine Generator Station's In Pennsylvania.They all had 8V71 Pony engines.
I believe I was mistaken about the 92... pretty sure it's a 12V71, but it's definitely 12.
A few years ago I was brought in to decommission a gas turbine set at the old Emery Air Freight headquarters in Wilton Ct. As I recall it was direct coupled via a gearbox that took the 18,000 RPM down to 1,800 RPM for the gen end. It was oil cooled and electric start. This was a standby set for power outages and was installed circa 1970. What they used to keep the building powered while this spooled up was a giant flywheel system that was out in the parking lot. That was basically a mechanical UPS for the mainframe computers in the complex. I have some detailed pictures around here someplace. BTW, the flywheel system was pulled out around 25 years ago so the turbine was collecting dust and talking up space. The new tenant had a better use for all of those square feet.
What does decommissioning one involve?
Scrapping or mothballing or something like that?
@@dukecraig2402 I have no idea what the contractor was doing with it but they needed all fluids drained for transport. The unit was oil cooled.
@@rupe53 Isn't it amazing what we used to build in this country? What we used to design and engineer to solve problems of the day? Like that flywheel UPS backup power supply system for a mainframe. Things like that. I seriously wonder if we could do the same thing today.
I worked for GE in the 1980s at their defense contractor business, Knolls Atomic power lab in New York . They needed a variable frequency power supply for a couple of the test systems we had, so they were using a couple of old trolley car track power units to accomplish it. From what I remember it was called the motor generator set. You would start up one unit on 4160 VAC house power and after it got up to speed you would bring online the second unit and the second unit would generate the variable frequency that you needed to run the test facility. These things were huge. Each one was mounted on a concrete base probably 12 or 16 ft tall total. I would say that diameter of the generator was probably about 8 ft or so. I distinctly remember having to go out there in this out building where these two were located, in the middle of winter, around 5 in the morning and start these units. We had to do it early in the morning because it was such a draw on the local power grid the power company would get pissed if we pulled the grid down during rush hour. I swear for a young guy in his twenties, this was something like out of a science fiction movie. The switch gear was in like a locker and when that thing closed it was like lightning bolts inside the metal box. Again amazing technology for the day, and from what I was told, those units were eventually pulled out by helicopter and replaced with a couple of units the size of a refrigerator to do the same thing. I hope we can do the same kind of engineering problem solving today but I'm not completely confident. Let's hope so.
Best I can do is a couple of 8V92TA's turning 350kw generators. Not even a megawatt between them.
There’s one of these on rt 16 north of Ossipee New Hampshir.
The white lake jet. That one is a Pratt & Whitney. I have a video of that one running also, but it starts with compressed air instead of a Detroit Diesel.
@@reusefull I don’t know much about it. I just hauled fuel to it a couple times.
@smorefirewood that one runs #1, this one in the video is up in lost nation (north umberland) and runs #2
@@reusefull honestly I don’t remember what I brought there. K-1 is probably right. It wasn’t Jet-A I know that for sure.
@@smorefirewood What is the difference between jet-A and #1?
And they want battery storage.
I wonder how many EVs are sold in Alaska.
I love the sound of the jet spooling up.
A couple of great sounds together!
Some dodge boy will say it needs a Cummins swap.
Love the 2 cycles!! Still a great engine!!
bro that detroits just loving it
Love the sounds. Amazingly beautiful
That's one big pony motor!
Gotta love how a Detroit is louder than a gas turbine. 😂 Fuckin badass!
"Screaming" for a reason! 🤣
"how dare you" lol👍
Generally, the turbines are started with compressed air from a compressor driven by the diesel engine. This can also be accomplished with stored compressed air. Cylinders with high pressure compressed air (3000 psi). The air is reduced to a low pressure, high volume flow of air to spin the turbine.
I have a couple other videos that show different turbines using compressed air to fire up. This one here is Clutched directly to the turbine.
Looks like a windless, sunless day in winter. We really need to get rid of fossil fuels.
Wow a Motown Stroker spinning up a gas turbine , very like the Bristol Siddeley Olympus Genny sets used in UK Gas Turbine Power Stations. Love the scream of that GE Turbine spinning up to full load, though most gas turbines are started on compressed air.
I have another post of a Gas Turbine starting on compressed air👍
Yes, but what starts the engine that starts the jet?
I'm pretty sure it's a typical, but large starter motor. I never got a chance to look to be honest.
The diesel is likely started with power from the grid as primary, and compressed air or batteries as backup.
@Lester Wilson I believe it's a battery system either way, but when the grid is up, the battery is on a charger powered by AC. A lot of substation/generation critical systems operate like that so the equipment is powered from the same source independent from relying on the grid. That way there isn't any transition that has to take place in the event of an outage, the equipment still operates like it's supposed to if it is called upon.