I have had a torque are 1975 monza since 1977 and I just learned something, why such such a basic car handled very well on the highway. I also just got an idea how to separate the arm from the transmission tail. good video.
Close but one mistake. You didn't mention the length of the torque arm plays a major roll in anti squat. Also on a road course car it definitely plays into the setup tremendously. It allows the car to plant the tires coming off the corners. It's not going to be set to full kill like a drag car but it's not just keeping the rear from rolling.
Great video, but a lot of fbody's run a crossmember with an adjustable mounting point (even many of the pendulum styles have 2 or 3 holes on the bracket), so you then have adjustment of the front mounting point just like any adjustable bracket on a four link. Could you possibly add that scenario to this vid or make a shorter extension for those of us with that adjustment available.
That adjustment... for the most part.. is useless. It will help get your pinion angle closer to middle of your adjustment.... it will have a small amount of effect on AS numbers.. but not enough to matter. Its not a four link and it doesnt work like one. Length of TA has a huge effect on AS. Vertical mounting location is more or less irrelevant
Thank you and Nichols since age 14, I've been grudge racing and hotroding these tq are stock suspension cars from 3-4th gen have owned and raced them all, if you not a real Gm tq arm man you will just repeat non factional statements on tq arm suspension cars you your self haven't raced won money even over 4 link parallel ect drag race sub cars, i was was the 1st in my city and south period to put a full weight true stock suspension tq arm ls1 based 4th z28 in the 80s, 5.80s bk when people couldn't run that on non true stock suspension or $ built 4 link cars we raced and faced them all , and in my real world facts over opinion or passed down oh tq arm cars wasn't ment for drag racing i can rebultle and debunk any passed on myths, they wk great even with requler bolt or weld on suspension upgrades and very little suspension tuning done. All the way down to 1/8 mile bottom 4s to lightly mod FBO, HCI, stock bottom end, cam only ls or stroked ls motors from gutted to full interior to all steal all glass, x275, drag pro or big and small slick tires classes. If im getting bottom 4s out a oem tq arm suspension without high $ 4 link convert or ect , im telling you they do very well and to run Gm factory suspension from the jump will save you extra $ to put somewhere else. Thank you tho no shade and shoot out to Kevin Wilson sbc another RUclipsr he also so repents the same myth but explained how well they wk also.
Thanks for the video! For a street strip car do you recommend a front torque connection using a bushing(stock type) or a linkage connection(like MIdwest Chassis)? I know that the bushing connection in aftermarket long torque arms reduces bind and noise, but is there a reason to use or avoid a linkage type connection to the front torque arm mount?
They're usually rated as stronger arms, and in most cases this is true. But if your not going 8s or faster, I prefer the Long Arm setup, but Im also a 6sp guy- still cant give up on the madness of stickshift. Its like racing UDR without having 250k in the car, plus the crazy cost of upkeep on a car running 3 sec 1/8th's.
It's remarkable how many people think pinion angle changes something in terms of suspension action. They're looking at the wrong part of the system. Pinion angle changes as a function of something else you've done to the suspension. If pinion angle gets too far from ideal you have to fix it, and you can do so without having an effect on whatever else it is you changed to get the suspension to do what you want.
How do you calculate the best control arm angles, and torque arm length? I have 380 HP, 112" wheelbase, in a 3000 LB car. It's a 39 Ford, so I'm fabricating almost everything.
First 3rd/4th gen? Or you have a Mustang w/ Max MS stuff or an older muscle car with updated TA susp? Love seeing Detroi Speed 1st/2nd gens, or a hemi 'cuda clone on a TA would be so sick. Ive really been into Heidt's IRS stuff the last couple years, and Ill put it on a Formula or something someday- Just an expensive, bad idea for my Drag setup.
@@mavsformulaful yeah have the whole maximum motorsports suspension on foxbody mustang doing a coyote swap an I also like the Detroit speed stuff may try them on next build
@@brezicky My boy's neighbor has all the Max stuff under an LS swapped fox, they make a great susp. So many people don't get they should probably build an all around car. I just got myself into that boat w/ a rear end narrowed 8" -the spool isn't bad, but I found out I hate 15x4s on the street.
Rob, you hit on everything EXCPET what the torque arm mount on the trans crossmember does. Most are adjustable height wise. What will moving the front of the torque arm up or down do to the car? Thanks bud for all your info!!
The front height adjustment only allows you to correct the pinion angle in a coarse adjustment. Then it's fine adjustment is done on the rear adjuster as he mentioned. (But note the adjuster is typically in the bottom bar "compression bar") It has been my experience the height of the mount has no effect on how the car reacts. (Within the room under my car.) The length of the torque arm determines how long the instant center is and the angle of the control arms determine it's height. Therefore the control arm angle is your adjustment for anti squat as mentioned.
@@johnnybrown7104 Your point? you can put it in any one of your 4 holes and it wont change how the car leaves nearly at all. Its not a relevant adjustment
This hits the nail on the head with me, I’m currently running some Hoosier slicks, and they’re still getting destroyed with 17.5 psi. LCA are at about 2-2.5deg or so.
Thank you so much for doing this and the ladder bar vids!! Such vital info. Is there anything that would need to be explained specifically on a triangulated 4 link that wasn't covered in the suspension basics video?
CheapFastReliable Equal length aftermarket 4 link increases anti squat as it separates. Stock unequal length decreases A.S. as it separates. So, be aggressive with the stock stuff but be careful on the equal length stuff.
@@RobD828 thank you!! Hoping to get my foxbody going this year, I was getting A LOT of pressure from my dad to do torque arm on it (he's a 3rd gen guy and swears by it) I'm going forward with all the adjustable "stock suspension" stuff since I know it's better. This vid shows exactly why and was exactly what I needed to hear.
@@RobD828 could you please look at my video of my blue camaro coming up on the converter and launching and tell me if it looks good or not? I would greatly appreciate it. I’m an amateur and this is my 2nd year racing.
@@lewisfoltz6306 Late but not true . I own 7 since age 15. 3rd an 4th. Just couse sombidy makes a video. Doest mean his rt. You know how fast people been in a Tq are stock suspision set up. People belive anything vs fact. Even Kye kelly perfured Tq arm bs ladder bar in his strett style 3rd gen camaro.
I have had a torque are 1975 monza since 1977 and I just learned something, why such such a basic car handled very well on the highway. I also just got an idea how to separate the arm from the transmission tail.
good video.
more bite, less bite...period
Close but one mistake. You didn't mention the length of the torque arm plays a major roll in anti squat. Also on a road course car it definitely plays into the setup tremendously. It allows the car to plant the tires coming off the corners. It's not going to be set to full kill like a drag car but it's not just keeping the rear from rolling.
Great video, but a lot of fbody's run a crossmember with an adjustable mounting point (even many of the pendulum styles have 2 or 3 holes on the bracket), so you then have adjustment of the front mounting point just like any adjustable bracket on a four link. Could you possibly add that scenario to this vid or make a shorter extension for those of us with that adjustment available.
That adjustment... for the most part.. is useless. It will help get your pinion angle closer to middle of your adjustment.... it will have a small amount of effect on AS numbers.. but not enough to matter. Its not a four link and it doesnt work like one. Length of TA has a huge effect on AS. Vertical mounting location is more or less irrelevant
Thank you and Nichols since age 14, I've been grudge racing and hotroding these tq are stock suspension cars from 3-4th gen have owned and raced them all, if you not a real Gm tq arm man you will just repeat non factional statements on tq arm suspension cars you your self haven't raced won money even over 4 link parallel ect drag race sub cars, i was was the 1st in my city and south period to put a full weight true stock suspension tq arm ls1 based 4th z28 in the 80s, 5.80s bk when people couldn't run that on non true stock suspension or $ built 4 link cars we raced and faced them all , and in my real world facts over opinion or passed down oh tq arm cars wasn't ment for drag racing i can rebultle and debunk any passed on myths, they wk great even with requler bolt or weld on suspension upgrades and very little suspension tuning done. All the way down to 1/8 mile bottom 4s to lightly mod FBO, HCI, stock bottom end, cam only ls or stroked ls motors from gutted to full interior to all steal all glass, x275, drag pro or big and small slick tires classes. If im getting bottom 4s out a oem tq arm suspension without high $ 4 link convert or ect , im telling you they do very well and to run Gm factory suspension from the jump will save you extra $ to put somewhere else. Thank you tho no shade and shoot out to Kevin Wilson sbc another RUclipsr he also so repents the same myth but explained how well they wk also.
FOr the most part.. dead on. But one thing you miospoke on.. the Torque arm does not drive the car.. the lower control arms do.
Thanks for the video! For a street strip car do you recommend a front torque connection using a bushing(stock type) or a linkage connection(like MIdwest Chassis)? I know that the bushing connection in aftermarket long torque arms reduces bind and noise, but is there a reason to use or avoid a linkage type connection to the front torque arm mount?
They're usually rated as stronger arms, and in most cases this is true. But if your not going 8s or faster, I prefer the Long Arm setup, but Im also a 6sp guy- still cant give up on the madness of stickshift. Its like racing UDR without having 250k in the car, plus the crazy cost of upkeep on a car running 3 sec 1/8th's.
It's remarkable how many people think pinion angle changes something in terms of suspension action. They're looking at the wrong part of the system. Pinion angle changes as a function of something else you've done to the suspension. If pinion angle gets too far from ideal you have to fix it, and you can do so without having an effect on whatever else it is you changed to get the suspension to do what you want.
Thanks man. I’ve needed this information 💯🤘🇺🇸
How do you calculate the best control arm angles, and torque arm length? I have 380 HP, 112" wheelbase, in a 3000 LB car. It's a 39 Ford, so I'm fabricating almost everything.
So a shorter torque arm wouldn't give you greater changes in instant center with the same lca adjustments?
BlaBlaBla, all you need is the right pinion snubber and clamps on the front half of the springs.
Awesome explanation....I'm gonna be running a torque arm never had one....gonna be an all around car
First 3rd/4th gen? Or you have a Mustang w/ Max MS stuff or an older muscle car with updated TA susp? Love seeing Detroi Speed 1st/2nd gens, or a hemi 'cuda clone on a TA would be so sick. Ive really been into Heidt's IRS stuff the last couple years, and Ill put it on a Formula or something someday- Just an expensive, bad idea for my Drag setup.
@@mavsformulaful yeah have the whole maximum motorsports suspension on foxbody mustang doing a coyote swap an I also like the Detroit speed stuff may try them on next build
@@brezicky My boy's neighbor has all the Max stuff under an LS swapped fox, they make a great susp. So many people don't get they should probably build an all around car. I just got myself into that boat w/ a rear end narrowed 8" -the spool isn't bad, but I found out I hate 15x4s on the street.
Rob, you hit on everything EXCPET what the torque arm mount on the trans crossmember does. Most are adjustable height wise. What will moving the front of the torque arm up or down do to the car?
Thanks bud for all your info!!
The front height adjustment only allows you to correct the pinion angle in a coarse adjustment. Then it's fine adjustment is done on the rear adjuster as he mentioned. (But note the adjuster is typically in the bottom bar "compression bar") It has been my experience the height of the mount has no effect on how the car reacts. (Within the room under my car.) The length of the torque arm determines how long the instant center is and the angle of the control arms determine it's height. Therefore the control arm angle is your adjustment for anti squat as mentioned.
My torque arm isn’t factory and is adjustable at the crossmember. 4 holes.
@@johnnybrown7104 Your point? you can put it in any one of your 4 holes and it wont change how the car leaves nearly at all. Its not a relevant adjustment
Thanks for the video. My 1976 vega has torque arm set up and I love it. But it does squat very hard from factory
This hits the nail on the head with me, I’m currently running some Hoosier slicks, and they’re still getting destroyed with 17.5 psi. LCA are at about 2-2.5deg or so.
Woah. I did not know this.
YOU TALK A LOT OF SENCE, LOVE HOW YOU EXPLANE THIS, CHEERS BUD
Nice shirt ! Love your videos
Explained simple, thanks
Thanks Rod!!!!
Thanks for the great content.
Thank you so much for doing this and the ladder bar vids!! Such vital info. Is there anything that would need to be explained specifically on a triangulated 4 link that wasn't covered in the suspension basics video?
CheapFastReliable Equal length aftermarket 4 link increases anti squat as it separates. Stock unequal length decreases A.S. as it separates. So, be aggressive with the stock stuff but be careful on the equal length stuff.
@@RobD828 thank you!! Hoping to get my foxbody going this year, I was getting A LOT of pressure from my dad to do torque arm on it (he's a 3rd gen guy and swears by it) I'm going forward with all the adjustable "stock suspension" stuff since I know it's better. This vid shows exactly why and was exactly what I needed to hear.
CheapFastReliable just remember that you need adjustable torque boxes to completely take advantage of that setup.
My 91 camaro with stock torque arm and adjustable LCAs runs low 10s w/ 1.37 60ft and handles excellent on the street too.
When I speak of suspensions designed for drag racing I’m speaking of suspensions easily capable of 60’ times in the .995-1.05 range.
@@RobD828 I know a tq. arm is limited but does pretty well at the same time.
@@RobD828 could you please look at my video of my blue camaro coming up on the converter and launching and tell me if it looks good or not? I would greatly appreciate it. I’m an amateur and this is my 2nd year racing.
@@lewisfoltz6306 Late but not true . I own 7 since age 15. 3rd an 4th. Just couse sombidy makes a video. Doest mean his rt. You know how fast people been in a Tq are stock suspision set up. People belive anything vs fact. Even Kye kelly perfured Tq arm bs ladder bar in his strett style 3rd gen camaro.
My 2014 Mustang GT is making 1200hp, I only drive it on the street, would a torque arm be useless?