I wasn’t going to watch this battle, but I’ve learned so much shit from this video alone I’m all in. More of this type of technical Q&A from these guys! These guys will teach us so much I never even know I wanted to know!
You just have to put a shackle on the front of the toque arm. The torque arm is for rear end twist. the lower arms are for rear end placement. the slip joint is Way more work for the same affect..How well does a slip joint work under lateral load?
He could just build a shackle (like on a leaf suspension spring), and that wouls also allow that front to back movement that the slip yoke does. Way more simple but maybe not enough space...
Right but they are putting in a different engine and transmission so therefore the transmission and engine are either longer or shorter than the orginal engine and trans which may require them to modify the driveshaft length
They can afford founders performance and a hooker t56 swap crossmember that has the absolute best torque arm mount ever engineered. This dude went wild for no reason
100% this. I slept through most of the math and physics classes and man, now I would love to be able to calculate some engine & suspension stuff. That shit is not easy when you try to do it properly and not just wing it.
Holy shit these guys needed to do just a little research and saved some headache. Driveshaft length between the t5 and t56 are identical, and the factory torque are mount works on a t56 as well. I've went through most of this myself the last three years building an ls/t56 24 hours of lemons car.
Too good! Got one team doing mad suspension work and sticking with a "basic" LS swap Got the other team doing a mad engine swap and sticking with a basic suspension upgrade.
jussuportinthahomies lmao thought you were talking about the camaro, some of em came with 350 small blocks honestly been paying way more attention to the camero than the other build
If he needed to put a slip yoke in his torque arm then he must have it solid mounted on the trans end. The factory torque arm on an F-body is mounted in a bracket with a rubber mount that allows the end of the torque arm to slide front to back when the suspension cycles up and down. He basically re-engineered the torque arm instead of just building a mount that lets the torque arm move.
I couldn't figure out why they're having such a hard time with this. If they're using an f body t56 they could just buy a Umi torque arm with the slip fitting on the trans instead of trying to build one from scratch. They act like no one makes anything for third gens.
@@kawasakiman1967 in a previous episode he was suppose to do a 3 link with PHB. The link was suppose to tie with the cage but I guess they went torque arm now. The guy's skill is sort of work in progress. I found a build he did for a customer for TT 03 cobra and the owner was pissed with poor details and non quality work.
You don´t need money to modify the drive shaft. I have fabricated three driveshafts for my engine / transmission swaps in my project cars with just the basic tools. All you need is a grinder and a welder and sone patience to do it accurate (and of course some donor parts).
Another slip joint that is super strong is the square stock you use for tow hitches. You can get the inner and outer by the foot from IMS. I have used it as drive shafts on rock crawlers
I did the same thing for a customer's 1980 Tercel wagon I put 80s custom coilovers from an AE86 in the rear and Hyundai Genesis coilovers in the front with custom top hats. custom stuff like this is what i lived for when i worked at a race shop. I would spend hours after the shop closed just seeing what would fit and what I can modify from other vehicles
As an engineer, if you were to put the longer arm on the bottom, the larger radius would allow for a more linear translation through the suspension’s travel. 🤷♂️
FYI - It's okay to let the torque arm twist. That will prevent it from binding up against the forward mount during cornering, letting the springs and sway bar handle the load.
You might be aware but 3rd gens benefit from frame connectors. Especially t top cars. Your cage should help and likely this stuff is way dont but connecting the unibody rails is big.
Im so team Marrow but i have a feeling a 4cyc datsun with sneak in for a win......Its about Who can get that power to the ground first....Money on the marrow.
They used a sledgehammer to clearance the floor pan for the fuel tank in the trunk you must have missed an episode or weren't paying very much attention
Quick Question: if its moving in and out doesn't that mean the splines would prematurely wear? And could you use a small coil spring to seat the splines so you have inward pressure on the arm? Or am I just picturing it differently?
@@NBSV1 hmmm okay... I was just thinking if it moves and only grabs a small section of the splines, it could it be a fail point... I know they are designed that way but throwing 400+Bhp you tend to see these parts start breaking in the wildest of places... although if it works that is awesome!!!!
Some needs to show Mason how a FORD ESCORT MARK 2 and most well built live axel rally cars has a 4 link and a watts link for the rear axle 👍🏼😂 . Wat hes doing is bollox 🤣
I wasn’t going to watch this battle, but I’ve learned so much shit from this video alone I’m all in.
More of this type of technical Q&A from these guys! These guys will teach us so much I never even know I wanted to know!
Love the suspension team, some real unicorn fairy dust magic going on there!
You just have to put a shackle on the front of the toque arm. The torque arm is for rear end twist. the lower arms are for rear end placement. the slip joint is Way more work for the same affect..How well does a slip joint work under lateral load?
Reminds me of Brad's chain suspension trick from last season 😂
I'm loving the two approaches to builds that you never see.
They dont learn to edit these damn videos any faster, and we may never see em... 😂
He could just build a shackle (like on a leaf suspension spring), and that wouls also allow that front to back movement that the slip yoke does.
Way more simple but maybe not enough space...
That's how aftermarket kits with a rod end are done. He could also do the bushing style where the end of the arm just slides in a bushing.
A junkyard driveshaft from a 4 gen LS car auto or manual will work or a 3gen auto car
All this correct work makes Brad look like a chicken with no head
A toddler with its dads wrench could do that.
As in?
This "correct work" is still bodge mechanics and is nowhere close to proper engineering.
🤦♂️
Let's get papadakis next
Y'all could use weight jacks like in stock cars
All 3rd and 4th gens have the same length driveshaft auto and 5-6 speed
Right but they are putting in a different engine and transmission so therefore the transmission and engine are either longer or shorter than the orginal engine and trans which may require them to modify the driveshaft length
@@FrgottenFrshness they're putting in an LS and I believe a T56. Neither is different from what came in a 4th gen.
Yes love it fam
I hear 'reengineering' too many times in this video and they just want to make it work somehow.
QA1 make full suspension kits for those cars but probably too expensive for their budget .
Yeah they could never afford a suspension like QA1 or Detroit Speed
They can afford founders performance and a hooker t56 swap crossmember that has the absolute best torque arm mount ever engineered. This dude went wild for no reason
@@michaelgarcia22 We enjoy building things. Not buying things
Doug Kimball its called build and battle,not buy and battle
blasphemy
Boreing
Stay in school kids and maybe one day you can be smart enough to build a race car. Geometry and they say you never use it After High School. Hahaha
id say common sense is all you need
100% this. I slept through most of the math and physics classes and man, now I would love to be able to calculate some engine & suspension stuff. That shit is not easy when you try to do it properly and not just wing it.
I was geo honors and was surprised how much it has come in handy since school days. Haha
Holy shit these guys needed to do just a little research and saved some headache. Driveshaft length between the t5 and t56 are identical, and the factory torque are mount works on a t56 as well. I've went through most of this myself the last three years building an ls/t56 24 hours of lemons car.
Too good!
Got one team doing mad suspension work and sticking with a "basic" LS swap
Got the other team doing a mad engine swap and sticking with a basic suspension upgrade.
Just glad they didnt just upgrade suspention on the 350 and call it a day
Henry Hammond well it didn’t actually have an engine so short of pushing it the LS was the best choice
@@keegankidwiler7840 what are you talking about the 350z had a running engine they pulled it to swap the K24 in and boost the K24
jussuportinthahomies lmao thought you were talking about the camaro, some of em came with 350 small blocks honestly been paying way more attention to the camero than the other build
"If you wanna check out crazy suspensions like chain limiting straps...look up dirt track suspensions " - mason must have not seen last season
If he needed to put a slip yoke in his torque arm then he must have it solid mounted on the trans end. The factory torque arm on an F-body is mounted in a bracket with a rubber mount that allows the end of the torque arm to slide front to back when the suspension cycles up and down. He basically re-engineered the torque arm instead of just building a mount that lets the torque arm move.
And the aftermarket ones that mount with a rod end just have a simple shackle
I couldn't figure out why they're having such a hard time with this. If they're using an f body t56 they could just buy a Umi torque arm with the slip fitting on the trans instead of trying to build one from scratch. They act like no one makes anything for third gens.
He likes to do his own R&D lol.
@@kenS87 so I've noticed. Just kind of hard to watch as an f body guy. Lots of unnecessary hackery.
@@kawasakiman1967 in a previous episode he was suppose to do a 3 link with PHB. The link was suppose to tie with the cage but I guess they went torque arm now. The guy's skill is sort of work in progress. I found a build he did for a customer for TT 03 cobra and the owner was pissed with poor details and non quality work.
I hope the mustang suspension doesnt steer the chevy towards pedestrians 😂😂
car builders vs. parts swappers........im with the car builders
Oh yeah sorry engine swaps are for ricers
He's spending a lot of time trying to figure out something that's been on the market for 30 years
Thats some crazy engineering in that camero suspension. I like builders like that they push the boat out and try stuff no one else would. Wicked sick
Why not just make it a parallel 4 link or ladder bar setup? And just throw that torque arm away.
the1onlyteagro I imagine it saves a lot of weight.
I dont no hes probably never seen that done b4 😂
Torque arm is god. Aftermarket just realized this and now they make one for every car
Because it's a BUDGET build where have you been???
Because it's not a drag car. It needs articulation for lateral grip. That's also more time wasting than he's doing now building shit he could buy.
You don´t need money to modify the drive shaft. I have fabricated three driveshafts for my engine / transmission swaps in my project cars with just the basic tools. All you need is a grinder and a welder and sone patience to do it accurate (and of course some donor parts).
Why not pull the Torque Arm/C Beam out of Kyle's vette?
For the torque arm. All you need is a short link at the front end of the morning point. It won’t allow the arm to rise but able to swing fore and aft.
Build Breakdown of Mason's Camaro!!
I love these informational segments.
I loved the off-road build PLEASE make another prerunner build !!!
Another slip joint that is super strong is the square stock you use for tow hitches. You can get the inner and outer by the foot from IMS. I have used it as drive shafts on rock crawlers
The square shape doesn't cause balance issues? Although, I guess if it's on a rock crawler it doesn't spin fast enough to be noticeable huh
@@lanceuppercut6168 yeah they shake like crazy if you try to drive more than a crawl depending on what gear you are running
Does Mason even know how the factory torque arm works? He gives me a headache
I did the same thing for a customer's 1980 Tercel wagon I put 80s custom coilovers from an AE86 in the rear and Hyundai Genesis coilovers in the front with custom top hats. custom stuff like this is what i lived for when i worked at a race shop. I would spend hours after the shop closed just seeing what would fit and what I can modify from other vehicles
The difference is that there likely isn't anything available for a Tercel wagon
That guy looks like Paul Giamatti’s better looking brother.
Working in my shop just listening and I swear that's who was talking...had to see to make sure!
As an engineer, if you were to put the longer arm on the bottom, the larger radius would allow for a more linear translation through the suspension’s travel. 🤷♂️
The mount is part of the diff housing. No need to waste more time making another one.
Why didn’t they order a torq arm?
So. Brad 2.0 but cleaner and not as scary. Nice!
Please tell me the 3rd gen team is making business moves with hoonigan and Bc with they’re engineering feats with the one off suspension set up.
I’m surprised companies like eibach or H&R haven’t ventured into the r&d of 3rd gen camaros
BC's one of their main sponsors, why they ain't using one of the many 3rd gen rear susp kits already on the market
Loving all these bonus episodes
FYI - It's okay to let the torque arm twist. That will prevent it from binding up against the forward mount during cornering, letting the springs and sway bar handle the load.
Its best to use the stock style sliding bushing. Rod ends and shackles dont belong on torque arms
@@michaelgarcia22 I'm just concerned about them splining together the slip joint, but Mason's been down this road before.
Good stuff!
He looks like the guy off the water jet channel can we get a taste test?
Mason you and Grimm are geniuses handz down!!! Learned so much from that short vid
Thanks man! More to come
Brad outta left field with one of his hot rods absolutely destroying gymkhana grid
You might be aware but 3rd gens benefit from frame connectors. Especially t top cars. Your cage should help and likely this stuff is way dont but connecting the unibody rails is big.
So cutting up the front driveshaft from a solid axle vehicle should also work?
Never in my life have I ever seen such a sketchy spot to be while jacking up a car🤦🏽♂️
Very interesting stuff!
Im so team Marrow but i have a feeling a 4cyc datsun with sneak in for a win......Its about Who can get that power to the ground first....Money on the marrow.
he is dead on. dirt track has the dopest suspension setups. 3 wheeling corners and pulling wheelies on dirt is all i'm gunna say!
Bro y’all keep posting these bonus parts I wanna see the whole episode
Tomorrow man. Chill
it’s always been once a week, on thursdays. since season one.
Evan Rackle lol I know I just get pumped. Best channel series out on RUclips by far
I appreciate the suspension nerd stuff. I'd love to see more of the technical stuff.
Mind blown by simple slip joint
And that's more complicated than the factory set up...or any of the aftermarket set ups
That input/output shatd hack on the torque arm is genius
Everyone shut up, Dan's back
Hey i gotta slip yoke drive shaft you can have if itll help w that torque arm ??
Building a drift car, why do you need so much travel? And the slip yoke thing is crazy.
Gymkhana grid not just drift
I haven't heard a single sledgehammer be used this season
Except where he had to dent the rear floor to clear fuel tank fittings.
Sorry to disappoint but i already have lol
They used a sledgehammer to clearance the floor pan for the fuel tank in the trunk you must have missed an episode or weren't paying very much attention
@@masonthedriver quick and dirty
Great work boys!!
We gonna need some longer videos bra!
Quick Question: if its moving in and out doesn't that mean the splines would prematurely wear? And could you use a small coil spring to seat the splines so you have inward pressure on the arm? Or am I just picturing it differently?
manny s If it’s using the spline off a driveshaft it’s designed to move like that already. So, it wouldn’t wear out quickly.
@@NBSV1 hmmm okay... I was just thinking if it moves and only grabs a small section of the splines, it could it be a fail point... I know they are designed that way but throwing 400+Bhp you tend to see these parts start breaking in the wildest of places... although if it works that is awesome!!!!
Some needs to show Mason how a FORD ESCORT MARK 2 and most well built live axel rally cars has a 4 link and a watts link for the rear axle 👍🏼😂 . Wat hes doing is bollox 🤣
He's following the very proven factory layout
Let's see masons Camaro!
Craig Have you tried searching it??? Hoonigan did an episode on it!
nice indeed
The guy engineered a slip yoke for his torque arm. Huh. .
Should of got a IRS out of a explorer
Every time I hit the gas on my 1982 the torque arm would swing up and hit the floorpan.
Fun Times, Glad that pos is long gone.
That's because you're torque arm clamshell Mount was broken simple thirty bucks fix
word
2nd!