Failed Powerflush using Thermal Imaging Camera, Badly installed heating
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- POWERFLUSH LEEDS - Powerflushing in Leeds
Today we're working in Seacroft in Leeds. We've come to do a power flush on a heating system. So, we're just gonna have a walk around now. We're gonna have a look at the pipe work, and look at the system. We're gonna use our thermal imaging camera, just to see how bad the radiators are. And then, we're going to establish what we're going to do with this instal.
Right, so we've come out to do a power flush today. We're just gonna trace all the pipes. You see that we're getting ... about 32, 33 degrees. See pipe work in the wall there. Trace some pipes, you can see them. Just don't keep warm. So, we're at the lounge here now. We'll go to this other one that's in the lounge. So, we've got about 29 on that one. Not working very well. It's all of eight mil, so the duct work very well at all. We'll see there.
Just gonna have a look at the boiler. So, boilers in kitchen. Kitchen radiator. We can see there, that's ... 13 degrees on that one.
We'll just go upstairs.
Does anyone want a cuppa?
I'll have a coffee please, two sugars. Thank you very much.
Bedroom radiator. About 42 degrees. It's really struggling this system. It's all piped off eight mil, and then it's been extended. And people's put bits of 15 in. But the heart of the system is eight mil. So, it goes to an eight mil manifold somewhere.
So, that's boiler that. Radiator.
So, it's got pipe work here. So, out of this pipe work it comes down in eight mil. And then somebody's T'd into eight mil and then they've put this radiator of it. So, it doesn't work very well. It's never gonna work very well, no matter what we do. But, we're just going to try as best to flush it as best we can.
Alright, same with this one here. So, this big radiator connects up to 15 mil, but then it goes into the wall and in the wall, it's an eight mil. So, again, it's never gonna work brilliant. And then again, with this one. It's 15 mil, it goes eight mil at wall. So, again that's never gonna work brilliant either.
So, we'll just have a look up here now. And it we look at some of the pipe work up here, it's not great. So, again, this room's off eight mil. Cylinder, and if we have a look in here how it's piped. So, this connects out of the floor there, on eight mil. And it's been extended round here in 15 mil. All the way around there, into this radiator. So, again we're always going to struggle to get up to heat very well.
This one, again it's an eight mil at floor, then it goes to 15. And then this one here. Again, it's on eight mil sames. So, eight mil comes out of the floor there. Eight mil, and then it's extended onto 15 mil. That 15 mil goes round there to that radiator. Somebody's put isolation valves on there.
So, we've actually abandoned this power flush. The pipe work is all small eight mil pipe, and it's been badly connected onto. And the pipework just needs updating, really. So, that the actually radiators themselves are all fine. There's no sludge in 'em. The water is clear. So, we're not going to charge customer for a power flush what that didn't need. So, what we've done, we've advised the customer to have the system re-piped. And that's it for
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Powder Flush Videos:
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Powder Flush experiment -
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That pipework was shocking. Some people don't care 🙈
The pipework is really really bad, how any company could advise a flush when it clearly needs re piping is beyond me.
Good on you for advising the customer and not performing any work which will not benefit them. I would much rather someone be honest with me and charge me more for a proper job rather than charge me less to do nothing!
System was a total mess really, Thanks for watching.
imranmajid1978 I would con you for as much as I could, I do this work for the money not your respect 👍
I admire your sincerity within your remit
It shows there are good guys out there and that you're not all cowboys, keep up the good work!
Good for Alan in not charging the Customer for a pointless powerflush; the customer would not have been impressed by a big bill with little or no system improvement. Shows a very professional approach.
Micro bore (6,8 and 10mm) was promoted quite heavily by the tube manufacturer Wednesbury in the late 70's; I recall a glossy technical specification and installation document. Stressed was the need size the system correctly, in particular the possible need for an up-rated pump to maintain a significant flow rate. Not much of a problem when all boilers were heat only and the pump was sized and installed separate but I do wonder how many replacement 'system' boilers are installed without ensuring the inbuilt pump delivers sufficient head. Recomputing the microbore system's head requirements without access to the relevant pressure-loss tables would be tedious.
If a microbore system needs extending, then 15mm pipe is a better bet than 6/8/10mm as the pressure loss will be less but obviously a rather more professional install is desired.
Well done that man..with the 8mm pipe, and plastic connections, could of opened up a can of worms..
That looks like a combi/system boiler. I had a problem like this once. I put a second pump on the system, on the return, with a relay switching it in and out. A push me, pull you. The two pumps pushed enough water through the rads for emit enough heat OK with not too much water noise. It was for a friend. I had a spare used pump and told him to see how it goes. It worked. I am not saying it will work on all systems, but worth looking at other solutions before expensively ripping a house apart.
omg my eyes are stinging looking at that pipework
Hi Alan wish you lived up in Scotland not many honest people like yourself in the trade, Keep the videos coming 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you.
Same! There's some proper shiftless little fu*kers about!
Really awesome videos keep em coming! Im a 3rd year apprentice plumber/gas fitter from canada. Always cool to see what youre getting up to across the pond. Especially service work. Can see some very interesting things!
Thank you for taking the time to watch my video.
Good video . Honest bloke. Respect.
Thank you for taking the time to watch our videos.
Good decision, Alan. Thanks again for your videos - really helpful.
Can't beat 15mm with a 22mm flow and return another great video cheers Alan
Jonathon Stanley Thank You
wise move.. chrome pipe connected onto a push-fit elbow which i doubt has been filed off has blow off written all over it..
Thanks for watching.
True that iv seen them blow off with 0.5 bar
You have to file it and still if it’s not smooth the ribber inside won’t seal I’d never put any push fit on chrome regardless if it was filed smooth just wouldn’t take a chance it’s somebody’s property if it’s not done right then don’t do it atall
I ran a bottle of central heating cleaner for a week during winter, and a lot came out when I flushed it after that!
great to see honest tradesmen about. lot of people would have flushed it and charged the customer. great job
we really should have started using underfloor heating a long time ago in the uk. all our houses are so tiny, radiators make rooms even more awkward, if i was building a house or remodelling i'd put in under floor heating.
And this is why I specifically requested no microbore with the heating system I have just had fitted, 22mm copper from the boiler to the 2 primary runs with 15mm feeds to all rads
Well done Allen, Proud !
Thanks for watching.
Glad you didn't comment on the towel radiator temp. Emissivity of a chromed surface like that is going to be around 0.3 so what you're measuring is going to be heavily effected by the temperature of what is reflected in the chrome. We paint test pieces with a thin layer of matt black paint and measure off that. I've got one of those Flir plugins for Android and it compares very well with the £5.5k Fluke in terms of general readings.
Yes emissivity is rarely understood by anyone in possession of a thermal camera. I had a trade tell me my primary heat exchanger was blocked with sludge as he could see a cold spot on the side of it. I had to attempt to explain that it was the shiny label on the side of it he was measuring. He still didn't get it so I gave up, but he stopped trying to upsell me at that point too!
Repipe is the only answer preferably in 15mm copper and lift the floors.
If money is tight leave floors untouched and pipe in 10mm .Its a lot easier to conceal than you think...behind skirting and the like.
I have 8mm CH system. I've been told as long as it's clean it won't cause problems.
👍
Shocking pipework but well explained and excellent advice to customer to upgrade pipework also are u using flir tg 165 thermal image cammera??
Deary me some scary pipework ... fair play to walk away rather than charge customer
Good man
Customer had been told by a large national company it needed powerflushing, clearly it needs much more doing than flushing. we would rather be honest with customers and give the best advice and then walk away. Thank you for watching.
Do these cameras show if you have a leak in the system…even if buried in concrete or in a floor void ?
Bloody hell,8mm into 15mm.....Pikeys! :)
Thank You
Why was this microbore stuff ever thrust on the unsuspecting public ?
hi allen what thermal camera are you using on this video? im trying to look for one, thankyou!
I haven’t got one atm
Spot on Allen
Thanks.
Question Allen: Do you need to offer incentives for your customers to allow you to film what you do, or are the customers normally ok with it??? I am just curious.
I ask the customer if its ok. On big jobs, i often offer a bit of a discount. Thanks.
im sure the 8mm worked absolutely fine when it was fitted originally just the poor additions that have made the system struggle. I've seen houses plumbed in 8mm from 22mm manifolds that work fine till they block up, which they always do unless kept well maintained with plenty of chemicals and flushing
Once I got lucky with an 8mm blocked pipe- took it off the rad end and put it out the window - put the mains via a hose on the disconnected manifold end - blew a slug of debris 15 feet down the garden .
What thermal image camera are you using, I have the Dewalt 👍
The Flir One
Looks like a cowboy job....pipes all over the place, compression fittings, pushfit connections
holy moly that pipework is the worst send pictures to plumberparts!
Lots of poor jobs like this around now. Thanks for watching.
The system was put in by numpty for sure. But! In 95% plus of running operation, as long as the boiler is set to maximum temperature, it will heat the house fine. It is the time when it is -5C outside it will struggle. It may be cheaper, and less upset in the house, to have secondary double glazing and extra insulation fitted - which will also drop heating bills giving superior comfort conditions. Uprating the piping will not drop heating bills.
Your off your head john
@@iancampbell582
What didn' you understand?
I can help you along.
Microbore should have been banned from the start.
As a plumber, I said no to the first 3 houses I looked at to purchase because of microbore systems. Cannot stand it
Wow that's some rough plumbing work💩
It was really bad, Just been back and done first service and customer was very very happy.
Is Deff Leopard the *_POWER_* of the power flush?
Blimey, even for me it looked a mess. What's the figure for a pipe rework?
Really bad install this one. Thanks for watching.
looks like a DIY job
I am guessing it was. Thanks.
Quote for a full repipe. That pipework is disgusting
Hello! I am from Moldova. I want to buy a thermal imager for work. which one do you use? what is in Moldova, Bosch 400. very expensive.
Hi Alan ,
I’ve been having heating issues , gas Engineer advised pump should be replaced , once it was replaced the heating came on downstairs for a day but then went back to normal and stopped working , upstairs ones are working although not much heat , i was told it must be sludge , I have microbial pipes , my boiler is 15+ years old with old cylinder upstairs , would you recommend a powerflush based on what I’ve written , or stop spending and get a combi ?
maybe a powderflush would help you? Thanks.
Good lord
Was that Hall rad speedfit elbow on chromed pipe?
wayne burgess I noticed that aswell.
The install was very bad, customer had been advised by a large company it needed flushing, they booked us in for a flush and this is what we found. water in system was clean and rads where new
Allen Hart I’ve had a few from a very large gas company saying systems needed a 600 quid plus flush by them. Last one I went to nothing wrong with the system other than rads undersized by 20% at least. Makes your blood boil 👍
i guess its an easy way for them to get away from the probelm.
What camera are you using please Alan?
We are using the Flir One Thermal Camera www.pass-thermal.co.uk/flir-one-smartphone-thermal-camera-for-android-ios-3rd-generation?fee=2&fep=17225&gclid=CjwKCAiAnabTBRA6EiwAemvBd2RhWm0ETdh7rVlwd1vxA1gCMij0KKhPRMWkDjE_iWSb9NJ5l4mRYhoCDkUQAvD_BwE
Honest advice. I hate when you walk into a house to do work and you find microbore pipe. You can't do much with it
Really bad instll this, Thanks for watching
Didn't the customer ask you for a quote to replumb the system?
No, I have never been back either. Thanks.
It's hard work finding a good builder/workman these days anyone can claim that they are a tradesman.
Fuck me, who did the plumbing there? Proper Cowboy
Micro piping, plumbing a fad years ago. 🙄 On the central heating system.
You can't flush 8mm, take each rad off and hose pipe is the way,
I have never heard anyone say 8mm microbore is any good.
Almost all new build systems are microbore, Normally 10mm and the inserts reduce them to 6mm, Not the best but they do work when new. Thanks.
That radiator at 4:10 is shocking. Bad DIY I hope. You would not want to pay for that.
Thanks.
how are builders allowed to use 8mm microbore then if you say it needs redoing in bigger pipe???
Because whatever you quote for, some numpty will quote cheaper. Customer doesnt understand need for 22mm F&R and 15mm rad pipes, so they go with cheapest price.
Cheap as chips worker comes in (I won't call them a plumber), and fits the cheapest pipe and fittings they can. I always try to explain the reason for a certain specification, and thats the only way customer gets to understand how proper prices get undercut by downspeccing the job.
8mm is pathetic. Are those plastic push on elbows even allowed in a heating circuit? They seem very dodgy to me.
They work fine when used on the correct pipe work like pv or copper pipe (chrome pipes is like no as they can pop off under slight pressure sometimes)
never had problems with 8mm pipes apart from low flow rate just takes longer for rads to heat up usually (only see it on +30 year old houses or new builds where they are cheaping out ,every pipe has a 8mm to big pipe size adaptor lol as radiators use the normal size pipes funny thing is not sure if they are saving anything as they need 2 adaptors per pipes and normal a bit of 15mm pipe as well)
Who does a job like that and walks away thinking they done good as a diy job or trade. That plumbing is horrendous
How close to the pipe work buried in the wall must be that curtain tie back thing.
Looks a real bodge job. Householder would be better moving or, having a complete new system put in.
what a abortion of piping lol And i totally agree with you diagnosis as a plumber
That's how alot systems are like. People put a new boiler in on 40 or 50 year old system. Crazy
Good video
I have never seen one quite like this before, lol .. Thanks for watching.
www.powderflush.co.uk/
How are people allowed to get away with work like this?
Years ago I have put in a few CH systems and common sense, a basic understanding of physics will be a good start.
Understanding basic water flow is not difficult if you put your mind to it.
So your a diyer.
Who inspected the heating system you put in years ago.
Ah ok you self certified your own work.So its probably a disaster.
@@iancampbell582 I have an honours degree in Electronics and repaired and soldered SMT so would guess I can solder better than you ever could. I always got anything I did certified by a good friend who is a senior combustion engineer for a large maintenance company who often begged me to join them as their senior BMS engineer guess I could manage that as I also have a degree in Computer Science
BTW I am now retired and would probably use press fit
Your video's are much appreciated but there is a big , a very big downside. Not all central heating engineers are trustworthy honest guys, and given a bit of knowledge that you impart in these video's only irks the C E's further! I am a carpenter and joiner old school, C&G O N C H N C and Master, been in the trade (now retired) over 55 years, so I know my trade too, and the worst thing in the world is a customer that thinks they know it all. And my answer is well you don't need me then bye bye! IF all heating engineers were honest trustworthy and do a good proper job, they would not have such a poor reputation as rip off merchants! With my trade you visually see the results as with yours most of the work cannot be seen, like an electricians work, most is hidden. You seem like a decent honest guy and you know your stuff, but as with all trades the rip off cowboys get us all a bad reputation, when reputation is everything.
👍🤓👍🍰
pissing in the wind. needs re-pipe
Definitely needed a re-pipe. Thanks for watching.
Ye, I'll have a Coffee Love, 10mm copper pipe,, I've put in 10mm Plastic, it won't run now I have put in Plastic 10mm pipes in,
That is one ugly looking system. How can somebody go home each day feeling satisfied with the work they've done when they are doing work like that.
Who uses 8mm pipe for heating? Absolute Muppets!
8mm microbore was cheaper to install in the 1980's - all house build in Aberdeen were done in this as it was less labour intensive. 15mm off the boiler to a manifold and direct run to the radiator. quick and dirty. Precursor of plastic runs.
@@abzzeus 8mm is for break lines for cars.
@@abzzeus Same down here, mostly the big volume housebuilders doing it to save a few quid. A few of my friends bought houses in the early 2000's, that had been built with microbore heating in the 90s... As most people buy houses in spring and move in summer, they didn't realise the heating systems were all sludged up until the first winter, and they all ended up buying bottle after bottle of sludge remover (with varying success). I think all of them ended up buying entirely new heating systems to cure the issues as a powerflush for £100's with the ever-present "no guarantee this will fix it, and no guarantee we won't burst your pipes" disclaimer puts people off :-)
@@abzzeus yeah there's a lot of it here in Nottingham with twin entry radiator valves with the distribution pipe that always blocks up.
@@henrytwigger2245 brake line is 3/16 or 4.75mm ya donut.
That microbore 8mm is shit.
Almost all new build systems are microbore, Normally 10mm and the inserts reduce them to 6mm, Not the best but they do work when new. Thanks.
That's the worst install I've seen
Thanks for watching.
Jesus Christ
Typical english work...
Coming from an east euro country without technical colleges i assume you got your training in England.
Im glad we are now out of the e.u.
Borders shut.
Did I say anything to offend you? Then why you are offending me and others with such comment?
why are you doing all this type of videos
you are doing us all out of a job we have spent meny years to train to do
at a cost people like you are a pain in the arse
giving out to much information to people
thinking they could do it there self’s
it’s bad enough trying to earn a living as it is
without you doing all the videos & putting them on RUclips!!!
paul newman “You are doing us all out of a job, we train for years at expense”
This unfortunately give way to allow snakes like you the opportunity to sneak in and rob people with a sub standard job, giving either wrong no advice only railroading customer to do what ever makes you the most money.
Shame on you!
A good tradesperson can explain & justify to customers & also demonstrate their work has been successful. If you can't, you're a cowboy so get out of the business as you tar the rest of us with your poor attitude. If you struggle to make a living that tells a story in itself.
Are standards are set high here unlike east euro countries were its thrown in which probably explains the above vid.
stick to films, paul, and let people do it themselves, sorry you're struggling to make a living, it never was £££ as an employed plumber without Gas Safe but I enjoyed it.