In Sheep's Clothing, featuring Dr George Simon
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- On a recent Surviving Narcissism podcast, Dr. C interviewed renowned psychologist and author, Dr. George Simon who discusses concepts from his book, In Sheep's Clothing. We share the video of this interview here, knowing you will gain from his deep well of insights.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. In the past 40+ years he has conducted more than 65,000 counseling sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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Once you decide to face your shit, there’s no going back. If you don’t have the guts to face your shit, there’s no going forward.
Agreed 100 %
True. You get stuck in deep doo doo!!!
Liked how George Simon admitted that he isn't (or wasn't) very good at setting boundaries because all his buttons got pushed so didn't respond in loving ways. That's humility.
Definitely!
Yes!! That was SO validating coming from a professional. These folks are expert button pushers and George Simon’s comments brought that home in a big way. It made me made me feel better about how I manage my emotions and respond around my ex. It’s certainly not easy!
Yes and it made me feel less useless for reacting to a major button push angrily. I was thinking I should not have done it. But if it can happen to a doctor I can stop beating myself up.
Guilty myself.
Same
Basically, they think they are a God to be worshiped and you are there to serve them
no matter how it hurts and costs others.
Thank you for your insight just great.
Some great pearls of wisdom - (thank you) like, "they fully understand what you want but they don't have a heart to do it" so it's a waste of time trying making them see - they don't care.
That was the conclusion I needed to hear. No explaining was ever going to change my N’s parent’s heart.
"Relationship partner and therapist waste time, energy and effort" narcissistic people will not change
Wasting my breath... wasting my time... wasting my life! DONE with them!
I am laughing for my own buttons were so pushed just a few days ago by a narcissist. I couldn't even say anything to modify their behavior because I was in the grips of my own anger (to my astonishment and regret). It was somewhat reassuring to hear that even Dr. Simon's buttons were pushed by these people:) at one stage. Heaven help us. Quite literally
Yes! I get angry as heck every time I meet a narcissist now! I can’t contain it! I came up with some catch phrases to stave off gaslighting and insults to throw back to shut them up! They back down like cowards. Knowledge is power 💪🏻
Narcissism is one of the major problems in the world today & it destroys the average authentic person. Thank you both so much for all your info. So many people are in need of it. Now why didn't a man like yourselves come into my early life that I could have married & I never would have had to deal with the curse of narcissism. ❤️🧑
Cringe
@@joywebster2678 that's not nice, they're just expressing that they wish they'd have found a decent nice person and not narcs and now be alone in life. I'm happy on my own but many aren't and clearly they have regret
@@joywebster2678 People listening to these two highly knowledgeable doctors are here out of a desperate need in help, to understand and survive what the narcissist has caused them. Comments like your's are not appreciated, by those of us that are genuine in our desire gain/maintain boundaries.
@@SteeleMagnolia I said one word to someone hitting on 2 professional speakers, a boundary issue, not some cute comment.
How many of us can't help but torture ourselves with thoughts like that?! I know It's true for me.
Wonderful guest! His cat analogy provided my "light bulb" moment, and l was finally able to accept that my nex was doing her evil deeds intentionally. It is her game.
Oh WOOWWWW. THIS WAS SO GOOD!! The revelatory statement that THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.. they just don't want to change. This was so good. The whole thing. Bravo 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
Sounds about right. That covert that discarded me knew he was a narcissist and told me he didn’t care. He was happy as is. He suggested I get help.
Yeah, that's what the 1 that Blew my Brain out, said.
You're Out of Control, you Need Help, + You need to be Locked up!
Projecting + (↑ Gas Lighting) his Life STORY! ... The 2.5 y.o. Car Thief! The Ritalin kid, who started Drinking Alcohol & smoking Cigars, at 7!
They ALL think WE should get help! It's my 80 year old mom's favourite. To hand all the family pathology out and then tell the victims they need psychological help! ✌
@kimjhanp his suggestion to get help is valid. Then you can learn to blow him off. A therapist told me years ago, just tell them what you want. Never threaten, don’t raise your voice, keep an even tone, never offer an alternative. Just say what they need to do, “the trash needs taking out”.
“Why don’t you do it?”
“The trash needs taking out.” and it goes around and around. Until they finally take out the trash. Maybe
fuming with a red face, but they will do it.
It worked like a dream, until he finally left. Then he got with someone that is the female version of himself. Payback is a bear!
😂😂😂😂 he just projected his mental issues into you. Just told you how HE feels inside of himself
When I left my first narcissist after 3 years of marriage I found his book and gifted it to 5 people. Unfortunately, I got sucked into a covert type of narcissist even after reading and absorbing his book. I then spent 7 years with him and had 2 kids. Oy!! The therapeutic trauma he mentioned was the worst and completely broke my beyond his abuse at home. It robbed me of HOPE in the worst way. I’ve experienced that more than once, the second time involved my child which was even more heartbreaking. Please, please, don’t go to therapy with them, get it for YOU!! 💛🙏🏼
Steph, I hope you're feeling better now. I would like to say something to you. Anything you do in life do it for God. He comes first, the man in your life (even the children) second. What you do for them is because you serve God first and you serve them in God's name. If you will follow that order you will have clarity in your relationships
@@tandlreeve Yes, indeed. Words to live by!! I agree. :-)
@@StephaniRoberts These are not my words, I am not that clever:) I've learned it from one of my spiritual guides (a person)
You see? That's why when people say others can't say anything cause they haven't experienced it, is not valid. Cause majority of yall have been there done that and still don't know anything and decide to engage so... 🤔
Steph- I am impressed w your journey and your persistence. I am much older and spent years trying to figure out why “ my” pattern was to be left after being devalued (though that is a new word for me as I did not realize that was what was happening at the time) no matter what I did. These girlfriends were more grandiose types. They embarrassed me around my friends and coworkers but of course I “ loved” them and was trying to “ help” them - so made excuses
Lol
Then the last relationship was a 19 year marriage -we adopted two children from foster care (we are two women)
Here I thought I had narcissism figured out because I moved past the grandiose type ( a couple of girlfriend relationships w breakups) then thought I found someone who was different -
oi vey is right!!
I have come to realize ( after the breakup by her of our 19 marriage) that she is a covert narcissist!!!! So yes she was different but still a baseline narc- just hard to read through the covert lines ( for me)
I have been getting lots of education and realize how badly I was damaged. Of course I feel bad for our kids as they have this covert narc as their other parent
Wow
Things unfold as they are supposed to and I see my kids learning about the traits of narc early on (they are now 20 and 21) so maybe that is progress
I appreciated what you said and resonate w your story. We just have to keep going armed with our increasing understanding
Best of luck to you !💜 o
I am in tears processing all that was said here. I feel so blessed over the last year to really see narcissism and to have received enough validation, that I have the confidence to continue forward, trying to survive narcissistic relationships, one day at a time. I wish I could put into words how overwhelmed I am at this moment. Thank you, with all of my being, I am grateful.
I totally identify with your statements. I wish I could get rid of the feelings of overwhelm.
Oh, Debra, I got teary-eyed reading your comment. 🥲
I am so choked up yes debra I am also so overwhelmed thank-you so much dr carter and your new guest
Yes it's overwhelming at first but then you grow stronger and life becomes new. Hang in there.
Hang in there beautiful souls. God has been my strength through it all. We are so very blessed to have this knowledge and make us aware who has the real problem. Just know that this is not healthy living and we need the supernatural strength and Faith to keep living with a sound mind just as Jesus came to give us. Don't allow the lies thrown at you to become your truth or your true identity. You are beautiful you are loved and you are worth so much more than these narcissist will ever know. You have to know this. Keep your heads up and live your best life on earth we only get one.
I say that we submit our support to the absolute necessity of establishing a double Nobel Peace Prize In Psychology to be awarded to Dr. Carter and Dr. Simon. It is an absolute 💯necessity to have this category included for the good of all humanity. Thank both of you very much for this tremendously informative dialogue.
Brilliant!
You know how excited i am for this, Dr Carter! I strongly believe the two of you have opened professional doors to helping people understand a pandemic most people have no clue is taking place in the world. I pray for both your expertise to be taught more and more on the college level so that narcissism becomes a condition to be addressed and not just a word tossed around in a heated discussion and so that more people (including narcissists) can get the appropriate help they need. My copies of “In Sheep’s Clothing” and “Enough about You, Let’s Talk about Me” are so covered in notes, they are barely legible now haha. For me, these two copies are two of my greatest treasures.
I think you'll like this one. We had a nice rapport!
So do I Kelly
God willing, this subject matter will be disseminated in the public schools as a conflict resolution program. It would save a lot of families from the loss that lack of information creates.
@UCpotl6aHFcNA3ptMpPvAshA i strongly believe depending on what part of the country/world can make all the difference as to how much narcissism prevails as well as how much education is there. About narcissism, that is. So if there is stronger or higher levels of narcissism in some areas, i just imagine that the narcissism is in some therapists as well. I can’t say for certain (because what do i know) but I can’t help but wonder. When i started talking about my husband’s behaviors, people looked at me like i was a unicorn pooping something other than rainbows. When i told one of the many marriage counselors we saw together… “I am not telling you these things about his behaviors because i am keeping score or because i am holding them against him… i am telling you these things so that you know WHY we are WHERE we are in our relationship. This shite takes a toll on a relationship when it’s over and over and over and I’ve given grace upon grace upon grace. I am not sharing a list of his faults. I am catching you up to date.” When i said that to her, her face and whole demeanor changed… almost as visual as a lightbulb actually coming on over her head. After that she began to speak to him differently, more accountably. Still… she NEVER mentioned narcissism. So you are not alone 💜
@@pepperjonesugoChristian wouldn’t that be great?! Spot on.
Dr. Simon’s laugh is so jolly! ☺️
I enjoyed laughing with him!!
Dr. Simon: "Narcissists have heard it 10,000 times before" what others have seen in their behaviour. So we get to save our breath and our nerves right out of the gate. Awesome!
One more additional comment is humiliating others, insulting the lady working at the grocery store, proud of being the bully in school, pushing buttons constantly and laughing at his insults towards me right in front of my adult children. Thank you so much for all your videos Dr C and your guest speakers and all the work you do.
Around the time I was facing the reality of having to divorce my ex narcissist husband I came across "In Sheep's Clothing" and it was like everything about these dysfunctional people that didn't sit right with me was validated. Around 7 minutes in this video the topic of bringing this spouse to therapy- I was also so very fortunate that when I found a marriage & family therapist that the woman I saw immediately knew what I was going through. She seemed to almost have trouble staying in her seat when I described everything that was going on and it was as if she needed me to know it wasn't me. And I needed to know. I really started to think it was me. Finally someone knew what I was going through. This was back around 2010, so not much info readily out there like there is now about narcissism. And my husband refused to go, and instead gaslighted me- or attempted to, by saying he went to a therapist of his own and said I was the problem, blah blah... that therapist was not a therapist, it was just his mother who was stopping him from seeing a therapist with me because he told her about it.
But this book helped give me the courage I needed to stay out of the gaslighting and realize it wasn't me! Me being upset didn't mean I caused the issue making me upset- which is what he always tried to get me to believe. If I just stopped bothering him about actually moving in with me since we were married then he'd move in with me. I silently suffered for months, reading, seeing this therapist... he never changed. He just wanted to be with his mommy dearest. So yes, he was enmeshed but was every bit a narcissist as his mother. This book was like a light in the darkness for me.
Their mothers are likely why they are the way they are,it's disgusting.
Thank you for sharing this. You have no idea how edifying it is to know that someone's life might have taken a better direction because of this work.
So, what's the rest of the saga.
@@mac878 quite nosy are you?LOL
@@budogacha Ha! Possibly. Like most good stories the ending hopefully brings closure. As someone still stuck in narcissistic sagas, multiple closures remain a goal.
Yes, it took me awhile to realize the narcissist I was dealing with wanted to make me think all of his behavior was actually normal. Next is the attack and trying to convince you that the blame lies on your doorstep.
So happy to see the numbers of viewers rising over the years!
I learned that the brother who (was) a Sunday School teacher, and Bible study leader, who walked away from counselling to save his marriage and family, who is now divorced, who's adult children don't want to be around him, nor do I, is a Grandiose Narcissist. That finally puts into words what I have been putting up with my entire life. He is even more dangerous to be around than I thought. The 2 narc parents had 11 Children; I have been living with this crap from day one.
Crazy thing so many of us and your not alone!
I'm 58 years old awakened completely@52
So much damage had been done so many horrible relationships felt I didn't belong in most dynamics my entire life...but awareness has been a game changer towards healing I need 58 years more to be completely whole.
I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for this one. I've had enough intimidation & manipulation to last a life time. On a healing journey now. Can't wait.
Character impaired personalities, that's a new term to me and it's accurate. That likely includes more than just narcissists. This was a great discussion. I'll have to check out Dr. Simon's book, In Sheep's Clothing, sounds like a great read.
I have Borderline Personality Disorder, and am fairly sure that also falls under the umbrella of a character impaired personality. It's a lovely concept that I hadn't heard described so aptly before.
Check out his channel too, very helpful 🙌🏾
Don't quote me, but I think personality disorders used to be called "character disorders."
@@RatedArggg, that may be so. "Character impaired personality" is more accurate, because it calls attention to the disorder rather than the person.
Oh! You mean “A**holes”!!
“We don’t know how to help.” Bingo!
When the IRS is looking for you, then the message hits home. Narcissists are self willed and hard headed. Nothing jars them better than the repercussion from their actions. That saves them.
“ Suck you dry and fill You with them selves”
Sounds like a horror movie (which it was😮)
Thank you Dr. C, and you are a guest.
Very informative😊 Radical acceptance👍 Accepting self as well also has to be radical!!!😊
🦋SURVIVOR 🦋
Dr Carter, how come there are so many narcissists but so few doctors/other educated people, that don't know a thing about this huge problem? If they do, why don't they talk about it?!
Because half of the therapists out there are narcs themselves.
@@alphaomegaambassador4978 No. I don't believe that.
The other half are ill-informed.
@@anniebrowning7354 Narcissistic Therapists are some of the most sinister wolves in sheep's clothing. The only thing worse is a narcissistic Christian pastor. Imagine a narcissist's victim going to either (or both) for help/healing! It's the ultimate 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' scenario.
Dr Simon explained it in his opening. Psychological training has still been rooted in old Victorian theory and principles. So in a PhD level there is time and encouragement to dive into conducting new research, exploring newer avenues of thoughts, the new society, and to publish. These new things trickle into the education of others. Many therapists stop at Masters level, or are certificate counselors. Personality disorders are studied more in PhD. But as these 2 Drs are saying there is not a lot to do with the disordered and so help is focused on those abused by the borderline and narcissists and psychopaths, and other disordered. Currently few choose to wrassle with those who choose not to improve. Doesn't mean the therapists don't have an understanding there is no fixing. Focus must be on parenting to stop creating these disordered people through disordered parenting. A narcissist marries a borderline and they decide to have kids...each of those kids will be disordered.
What a gift and blessing! Thank you….top two takeaways - you can’t convince someone with a character disorder to “see” things your way (rationally, ethically) because they think their way of being is just fine. And….act different to think different. Such a great contribution! Thank you!!
Thank you!
Beautifully put thank you for sharing 💖💐👏
I have an audio version of this book. Made me realise how utterly naive I was and how other people may have seen me as stupid. Really opened my eyes (and ears!) into manipulative people. Look forward to this video thank you
Mcm, you are not alone.
But now your eyes are open you can leave all those people behind block everyone all the flying monkeys and just live your life .... love yourself. I am now.
Do not be TOO HARD ON YOUR SELF- my folks trained me to sabotage myself; I served as Family Door-Mat.
We’ve ALL been naive about the “character impaired” personalities in our lives. We are all learning, so just be YOU, you are in good company as they say.
@@carolnahigian9518 people never wanna be hard on themselves when it actually applies. Like this.
The main take away that I got from this video is they see but they don’t care. That explains a lot!
This discussion is so spot on. The more you know the more you can protect yourself and realize what is really going on.
What a wonderful pairing. Thank you both so much, I so appreciated the opportunity to learn from you both!
"It's a matter of the heart"
So true! They're heartless!
Thank you so much for this video👍
Hence must be left to GOD to deal with these kinds..so much people waste their lives trying to save them a disappointment
@@cynthia-jo1zzGod allows free will.
In Sheep's Clothing is an awesome book!!! My parents manage their images expertly as I struggle to recover. I will not quit, though!!
Thank you! I hope you find my other books and articles helpful, too!
Please do a program on setting boundaries. I have next door neighbors who live very close and are enjoying messing with me when I work in my yard. I' Please help those of us better understand our own weaknesses so we can start to gain strength and resilience around button pushers.
Dr, Carter, Thank you for bringing Dr. Simon on. He is a clinician that brought other things to the table. All in all, it reaffirmed your message which is that curing a narc. is not done by untrained regular folks in this world, which is most of us. His word, 'character' disorder is what everyone needs to understand, which is these folks do have character issues within them. I appreciate you bringing him on. Wonderful!
Character disorder is the term personality disorders used to be called. And I always felt it was a better description of what a personality disorder is, a disordered character, who they are.
Dr. Carter, if I may, finding your RUclips videos has given me the knowledge and understanding what I’m dealing with. If I didn’t find this, we’ll, I would have taken my own life. I knew something was just not right, and I knew it wasn’t me. Although still married to a grandiose man, I’m working so hard to leave, then divorce, then to heal some more , but I do know that I will not truly heal 100 percent, for the trauma ran to deep, for too long. But knowledge is truly power, for I am still alive to finish this battle. Thank you so so so much for your love and care, it is felt deeply through your videos. Many hugs 🤗
Love and hugs received. Your comments move me greatly. Just know...you are why I do the videos. I'm so pleased to be on the journey with you. Dr. C
Dr. C. & Dr. Simon
Alanon taught me to stop trying to make. my Narc husband understand my feelings of how he made me feel.
In stopping.....inturn he had to guess what I was thinking and feeling . He because very confused and frustrated with me. I became very Gray Rock and emotionally with drew from him, as to keep him from harming me any further.
He is now deceased, and I thank God for rescuing me from the pit of he'll.
Have been reading your books Dr
Simon. Wonderful Books! Thanks to you and Dr. C. for your insight. Thank you!!
And hugs for Gus!!!
MOVING Forward in North Carolina!!!!
In today’s world it’s a tremendous comfort to find so much cumulative wisdom in one place.
Thank you!
🙏
character disturbance is right
When I experience characters like this I am disturbed!
Variations of narcissism is right- just as there are variations of everything
How many variations of narCs are you gonna go thru
Loving the perspective that therapy related to Victorian guilt is not so relevant now, as society has changed. Loving the idea of adult narcissistic traits as evidence of delayed character development.
As in alcoholic treatment, therapy for personality disorders requires buy-in from the disordered person. People with narcissism who have supply are happy as clams. The poor supply person is unheard.
Best to leave them to crash and figure it out. Let the supply person move on. Life is short. Boundary disputes are just too hard.
Loved this perspective.
Go, Dr. C! Keep delving into narcissism; there are many levels to explore. God bless you for the work you are doing!
Very cool pic!😊
I've heard the trouble is most people don't believe there is something called Narcissism. I cant find anyone at home to talk to me about it. 99 % havn't a clue.
@annie browning- yes that is going to happen. It is just something that you have to get used to. Even if someone knows a little bit they will not truly get to know your experience. Perhaps seeing people recover through RUclips may help. The best thing is to try and heal.
I never realized why my life have turned a real turmoil. I stil am healing my wounds. Thanks to both of you for enlightining tbe reason of my pains with a narcissist husband. Many thanks.
It's more powerful to act your way into a new way of thinking than it is to think your way into a new way of acting. I need to practice this!
I really appreciated Dr Simon saying that his buttons got pushed many many times before he learned to figure it out. That was really helpful.
I agree. They know how exasperatingly Difficult and TOXIC these Characterless ones are. The Forensic Linguistic NINJAS are More than any 'normal' person can even begin to Grasp or fathom!
Like, being around 2 Donny Trump's! 😱
I love the way they said stand your ground. This is all about control. Can’t be controlled anymore. Or manipulated.
I listened to the audiobook “In sheeps clothing”. All I can say is WOW, we all need this book. Thank you to both Dr’s for today’s video. I would love to see you do a video together on the boundary issue.
This book in sheep's clothing gave me a lightbulb moment. It was so helpful to me because there wasn't much even on the internet about this topic when I was going through this. I was so amazed that there are actually people out there like this. It was so validating to know I wasn't crazy.
This conversation is so correct. Narcissists are don’t do as I do do as I say. I was told by my Narc friend that I wanted them to change but it’s not happening because this is who I am. I just couldn’t deal with the constant changes in their behaviour.
I agree with Dr Simon. They are aware of the right thing to do. They just don’t have the heart (empathy). Sadly it’s not something that can be faked. Authentic people will see through it. Having a relationship with one of them is empty.
I'm 64 years old and I feel like I been chased by narcissist all my life from my school years to marriage years, to best friends dumping me, to my spouses family of narcissists and on to scapegoating and narcissistic abuse in my family of origin after both parents passed away. But looking back at my childhood I can see signs of how a couple of my siblings were narcissistic to me even in childhood. Problems with mom and dad also from time to time even though they loved me. I am left with only 1 of my sons to be around. I feel pretty alone and am not a very happy woman.
Same…I have two daughters in my life. It’s a very lonely life when your whole family is toxic. I hear you. ♥️🌹
@@owllady88x8 And I wanted that family but my selfish sister didn't (doesn't) want to share her family with me and as it turned out anyhow, none of them valued me enough to want me to be a participant. Hey can you imagine JFK's kid having uncle Bobby kicked out of that family. Although I'd be way way lower and there's no comparison of course.
My husband, soon to be ex actually called my mother a “wolf in sheep’s clothing“ definitely projection, what a cruel thing to tell your wife about her mother. These dark souls have no empathy, so happy to be freed from this. Thank you both for sharing such important knowledge and wisdom 🙏beyond grateful!
I bet he will be happy to be free from you and his mother inlaw.
Really am learning a lot about being narcissistic, thank you Doc 😊, I actually thought my husband was bi polar, now I understand 👍, I love listening to the Doc, never knew this much caused him to treat me so horribly!! The pain and deflecting is absurd, I'm at the point where I'm ready to get away!! I've prayed about this every day and night, I won't put up with this the rest of my life!! Thank you Doc Carter for having this wonderful man on💯🙏🤎
Feelings are mutual with what you are or were going through (present day for me). Add to the list Covert addiction to alcoholism, worst cover-up lying 🤥
Don’t put up with that, I did for 20+ years and suffered greatly! To the point a physical deterioration, my mind went first🤯
It’s time to “ wake up and smell the coffee”…
Good luck to you either choice you make🫶
🦋SURVIVOR🦋
Praying for you too ❤
@@emmiewilson5024 Thank you 😊 🙏
@@dm3144 I'm tryin to get my ducks in order, I've got alot going on, with my left shoulder, I'm fixin to have to have a 4th surgery, I can't manage at this moment by myself, I depend on God and my furrbaby, they help tremendously, thank you for being here🙌🙏🙏🙏🙃
Very interesting and you both covered so much ground, thank you! Towards the end of the video Dr. Carter mentioned "boundaries" and 8 months ago I went no contact with my narcissistic mother-in-law and I've blocked her number so she can't call me anymore, but *now* she's trying to pull me back in again. A few days ago my MIL told my husband that she ..."wants to be close to me and be my friend" ....which is a bunch of hooey. It's hard because my husband actually believers her. I think she's just having a hard time with my boundary and she's uncomfortable with the fact that she can't call me up and spoil my day anymore--like an addict needing a fix or something. I've been married to her son for almost 35 years (in December) and shes had PLENTY of opportunities to be "close" to me or be my "friend"; instead she's done nothing but hurt me by trying to break up my marriage. She actually tried to play match maker with my husband's old girlfriend during our 9th year of marriage and REFUSED to apologize. And she still hasn't apologized. So her BIG chance to make things right with me and be my "friend" has come and gone--that ship has sailed. And I was telling my husband that I have forgiven people for some pretty awful things and let them back into my life but only when they changed the awful behavior, and from where things stand right now, my mother-in-law isn't even sorry for all the hurt she's caused so why would I want to give it another go? I would be foolish to do that. You know, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, etc. So I don't think she wants to be my friend at all and she's only telling my husband that so she appears genuine and to play the victim. I know all of this, the problem is that my husband doesn't know this. I know I can't control his thought process but I can control what I allow into my life. I know he's disappointed that I won't cave-in to her request and it makes me sad that he's disappointed, but I have to stick to my guns where she's concerned. She hasn't changed and she never will. My MIL is 98 and very set in her narcissistic tendencies. Hubby will come around I'm not worried about it, I'm just expressing what a lot of other people have gone through when they decided to go no contact and how the narcissist will try to pull them back in. I know I'm not alone. Take care dear reader :)
Love when you are a guest of someone or have a guest. This dynamic is great learning.
Thanks Mary. It allows the audience to pick up a different vibe!
Yes. The one with Dr. C`s brother was my favorite. I hope someday to see another podcast with the Carter-brothers 🙌🙂🙏
“In Sheeps Clothing” is a very interesting book-and I agree about accepting the person but not all behaviour (22.27-23.36 min`s in the podcast)
There has to be limits🙂🙌🙏
I've read books by each of you guys and subscribe to your channels. I am more grateful than I can express for the insight I have gained. My father was/is an absolute monster, as was/is my ex husband, and I believed everything was my fault for decades. I knew they weren't "normal" but I always thought if only I could try harder, if I could prove myself, it would all be ok. Dr. Carter, I watch and rewatch your videos when I stumble and I appreciate you so much. And I've highlighted so much of my copy of Character Disturbance that it's just all yellow now. It's really helped my mom feel closure too. I really can't thank you both enough.
I've had so many narcissists in my life, some of whom I didn't "choose." I feel dirtied and slimed by the way they treated me. And I wasted so much breath trying to change their foul little minds. Going forward, no more narcs in my life.
Act your way into a new way of thinking and don't think your way into a way of acting! Brilliant. Actions speak louder.
Oh boy! Wonderful people together! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
This is exciting with 2 docs with slightly different views of narcissists! Love it ❤️
I think Dr. Simon focuses more on helping the N, while Dr. Carter focused more on helping the abused.
@@patriciafry8634 yeah. Most of those narcissists can’t be helped! But I am sure both Docs deal with trying to enlighten many in their offices! I think it’s a common marriage problem!
Don't forget Narcissism occurs on a spectrum, so those on the low end can learn new ways, long hard work, but possible. But those with full blown NPD aren't likely to change.
@@joywebster2678 Yes great point. I feel like I've had some narcissistic behaviors as a teenager, I copied my mom's ways of dealing with people so I had to unlearn that.
Wow! Listening and watching this has been so enlightening! Understanding that narcissists see but don’t care how they hurt other people points to a rotten heart. Where is the compassion, where is the remorse? Where is love in the heart? Or, if they were ever religious, how about “love thy neighbor as yourself”? I am going to save this presentation to watch again. It is a gift that keeps on giving.
My malignant narc father claims he became a born-again Christian as a child. I was the one who was always begging to go to church. Finally, my mother agreed to start taking my sister and I. We found a great church where we were thriving. He never went. We received a letter in the mail from the church that was addressed to my mom and he became enraged because his name wasn’t on it 🤣. He forbade us from going back to that church.
We found another church which I didn’t like nearly as well but at least we were going. I got saved at 11, alone in my bedroom. Told mom I wanted to make a public declaration and get baptized. Suddenly dad decides to go the next Sunday & I assume it’s because mom told him my plan. During the alter call, I was making my way out of the pew & he shoved me down onto the seat. I got up (knowing I’d pay for it later), and went down to the alter. After the service, I stood by the door and everyone leaving the church would shake my hand or hug me, welcoming me to the body of the church. He scowled the whole time and was seething with rage the whole way home. This is not something a saved person does when their child accepts Christ. I desperately want to see him have a change of heart, but it’s too hardened.
Thank you for having Dr. Simon as your guest Dr.Carter I learned a lot today!
He's a good guy.
I have to accept that my sister who sees nothing wrong with lying about me and my family and running a smear campaign against us for 30 years, no exaggeration, knows what she is doing is wrong but just doesn't care? I hope she gets to experience this treatment herself some day.
Regarding the question, "Do narcissists know they're narcissists?"
I've known two self-described narcissists in my younger years. One told me, "Your problem is that you care about people. I don't care about anyone." I was suicidal at the time, in therapy because of my relationship with him.
The other was a long-time friend, who said, "I never truly engage with anyone. I've learned to pretend to care."
In later years (I'm 75 now) I came to divide humans into two types of people - those with empathy, and those without. It's not science, but my first clue is "Do they listen, and actually respond and converse without interrupting me, or changing the subject to suit their inner yammering while I'm talking?"
“The opposite of talking isn't listening. The opposite of talking is waiting.” ― Fran Lebowitz
I love act your way into thinking instead of thinking your way into acting. Reminds me of “fake it too you make it!”
This was absolutely tremendous DR Les and DR Simon, Low awareness and insight They are blind to themselves, Thank you so much for this, Peace, Love and respect to you both, Thank you universe, All glory to the most high :-)
I Am in a painful withdrawal from both my son and brother. Thanks for these videos they help so much
I am greatful this information is coming into public awareness. I was not so lucky to have this when I needed it. My Father. Sister and ex husband all different types of narcissists I am over 50. I needed this in my 20's
Why would narcs change? The system works for them. They are rewarded at every level, at least in the work place. I know Socrates said, It is better to be wronged than to do wrong (And I am committed to that philosophy), but damn. When I am struggling to keep food on the table and see the liars, manipulators and bullies get ahead.... well, I question if maybe I am defective. Until I get out in the desert to feed my magnificent juvenile black hawk that I rescued, watching her elegantly work the bush looking for prey, everyday.... well, I am reminded that this is what life is really about. True love.
Dr.C is gracious host. It was very satisfying to be a witness to this discussion. Thank you 🙏
Thank you for this upload. I could have listened to the two of you for eight hours straight!
I just had a festering blowup with a narcissist today. Sadly, it was a neighbor. So distancing myself wasn't possible. I tried "boundaries", but we all know that doesn't stop a narcissist.
So now I'm sure I'll get the "live b0mbing" phase of the NPD manipulation. So sick of it all.
Superb!
That bit about acting a new way and your thinking will change rather than trying to think differently towards the goal of better behavior: classic 12 step. There's a saying in the program---Fake it til you make it. I used to say that to my ex to get him out of chronically bad, defeatist moods. He hated hearing me say that. For me, acting differently worked. When I wanted to develop more patience, I deliberately slowed down all my movements and activities just enough so I could be in the present moment, not rushing. Over time, I found that patience began to develop ever so slowly. Progress, not perfection is another 12 step expression. Thanks for a great video Dr.C and Dr. S.
My partner always says, practice makes better. I like that, because Perfection is such a high bar that many people won't even try, while Improvement is an achievable goal. I've also heard, practice makes progress, which is basically the same thing.
I was just about to comment on that! I've also heard to stop thinking and to keep moving the feet forward. Too much thinking is what got you in the wrong place to begin with.
Nice job Gail! It takes years for some people to understand this concept. The way you put it into practice is perfect--slow down! This way you can see more clearly what's going on around you and act accordingly.
@@bsavage357 Thank you for your reply. We are all a work in progress, if we choose to be. Otherwise, we fossilize.
@@gailrosenberg48 Hello Gail 👋 Forgive me for using this meduim in expressing that i think you're an attractive woman with calming smiles
Dignity. Respect. Civility.
If these three attitudes are not present then there is an imbalance.
Goodness it’s so easy to actually see!…just wish I had learned this years ago!
I feel like such a fool to have lived almost my entire life taking the knocks, inside feeling so worthless and being angry with myself for not coping and feeling crippled.
My ex wanted me dead and would scream every humiliating indignity he could at me and reinforce it with his intention to push me over the edge and make me commit suicide. Why?…because I asked for a hug the night before thyroid surgery and felt nervous; because a little old lady was driving a bit slow through town and I asked him to stop swearing, spitting with rage and shaking his fist at her; because one of the kids came home from school happy…
Almost twenty years later I still live on my own and still suffer massive anxiety attacks, nightmares, dizzy spells to the point that I almost black out and have to sit on the ground - even when out walking…
So, please, anyone who has a narcissistic individual who is bombarding you with their version of love and inside you are unhappy, take the wonderful advice of these two docs who set such a sound example of how to communicate and converse…Dignity, Respect, Civility!
Narcissists don’t generally improve and eventually it’s like living with a time bomb. Follow your star and stand firm for what is right for you.
Kudos for having the courage to get away from him! You saw what my mother refuses to see. My narc father would put all of our lives in danger during his road rage episodes and I was the only one who would call him out on his irrational behavior. God forbid I come home from school in a good mood…how dare I have any joy in my life . And if he witnessed someone treating me with respect or enjoying my presence, I knew I was gonna get severely punished for it once we were alone.
Great interview. Two pillars in the field right there. Thanks gentlemen!
MY SISTER TOLD ME WHEN WE WERE YOUNG THAT SHE WAS SUPERIOR TO EVERYBODY ELSE, A SUPERIOR BEING, SMARTER THAN ANYONE ELSE!
I agree with Dr. Simon's view that fear and insecurity often do not drive the decision to abuse but "a lack of inhibition to attack." This self-control should have been acquired in childhood but did not since conforming to societal norms would mean -- submission. Yes, yes, and yes again. Feeling above from an early age.
Great to see the two of you together!
This was so excellent, Dr C! Thank you for inviting Dr. Simon. When he took that deep breath when you asked him about allowing the narcissists to push his buttons- I felt sooooooo understood. He gets it!! 💕
I absolutely loved your conversation Gentlemen. Thank you so much. Change in action leads to change in thinking. I really agree.
I love the humility and true honesty in this conversation. It is so darn true, we can be same way. Again, we have to keep a close watch on ourselves.
When I was dealing with my narcissist father who was dying and attempting to shift his shame and guilt on to me, I used the strategy of not moving. The rest of my family came to my father’s defense and put me as the persecutor in their drama triangle, making him the victim and them all the hero. It was impossible to convey to my family my intentions because they were blind on purpose.
When an adult tries to learn a new skill such as playing the guitar or learning a language they are often not able to embrace mistakes as a tool to success. We must practice to learn and reward ourselves for the smallest successes. This helps further advancement and avoids a quitting mindset. I was reminded of this during certain parts of your conversation. It can be applied to the attempts to change habits in therapy!
Exactly!
I bought and read both of Dr Simon's books. They helped me look at the family dysfunctions as a character disorder in the narcissistic members which was so helpful to me. That was years ago and that point of view is still true today. The lack of developed morals and principles undercut everything that is good in the world.
Well said private private!🎉👏” The lack of developed morals and principles undercut everything that is good in the world“
I’d like to look at it this way…
That describes both of my daughters to the T!!
And so unfortunate because they both have such miserable lives. 😢 and I am no longer a part of that, I thank God.
My relationships are happier and healthier because I choose people with good morals and principles to hang around with.
🦋SURVIVOR🦋
Wow! Humility changes everything.
Dr. Carter thank you for having this conversation with Dr. Simon. It enforces the tactics, behaviors, and boundaries I will need in place right from the beginning with the many new relationships I will be forming within the next nine months.
You're quite welcome. He was a delightful guest!
This held many, many keys to doors I didn’t even know were LOCKED in my heart and mind. I hope and pray this will be received and utilized by my pastors and family.
Deep thanks and blessings to you both!
Drs. Carter and Simon, on this video , covered so much ground about those on the Narcissist. spectrum and the people they prey on. There is definitely something in the personality of the people the Narcissists are drawn too. When you have had this unpleasant experience, you ask yourself, WHY? Since the narcissist is clever enough to use gaslighting and other schemes to be the puppeteer; while you allow yourself be put under this spell because of what's in your heart, and your emotions. They are masters of disguise,as Dr. Carter has mentioned and the person you think seems like a sweet man may be just the opposite.
As a Christian, I believe that the only way to truly change a person's heart is the gospel of Jesus. That being said the gospel tells me that we are deeply fallen. Pride is at the core of this. Idolatry is the result of this. A narcissist is a person who is their own idol. They worship themselves and their own egos.
perfect! ONLY one way, Jesus
Looking forward to seeing more from you guys
How awesome to get to hear some shop talk, soak up some wisdom, and have some fun!
THANK YOU FOR HAVING GEORGE ON HE IS WONDERFUL !!!
Thank you gentleman !
Your channel is such an amazing help and wealth of knowledge. Thank you for all that you do!!!! ♥️
You are so welcome, Danielle.
I love the generous spirit of sharing other experts with your audience. Great interview
Yes this docter in the process of education , he was in the fog.
But he could not be fooled for ever, he must have taken notes, hats off to him.
Drs Simon and Carter, this was amazing -- I would love to see you both again. You are wonderful separately, but you are dynamite together, The audience loved this collab.
Thank you so much for this DR Les and George, Absolutely tremendous, Clarity, Peace, love, Respect to you both, Thank you universe 🦄🌚🌹💚😍👁😊♘💜🌈❤💛🌲🌝🐉🌷🐶👽🐎☘🕊😃
I LOVE how he admit.he dnt kno how to HELP. He admitting his humanity many Dr wont .kudos!!Dr George humanity made me LOL. No fear no anxieties ad he accept WHAT he is unable to change.I would like more of this kinda energy. with Dr George.TY
Yeah...he's the real deal.
Woah, thank you Dr.’s for a very enlightening session! I’m truly blown away… in sheeps clothing ! 💯👍
Just permanently severed ties with covert brother. He was truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.
They are aware of their behavior they just don't care!
Exactly!! I always hear him say
"I don't care! "
I like how Dr Carter is mercyless with them
Beautiful Guest love him😘😘😘😘😘😘