One simple model to understand China better. Why we shouldn't think of China as a collective society
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2024
- One simple model to understand China better. Why we shouldn't think of China as a collective society #chinasnewnormal #chinamodel #collectivesociety #trustchina
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 My new book "Can we trust China" now available on Amazon for $2.99 (kindle)! amzn.to/3GWBR7x
00:56 The Western view of China: An Authoritarian China versus Liberal West
01:03 Why do we see China as authoritarian? Because we see China is a top-down society where people have to comply. We see China as collectivistic versus the individualistic West. Both systems have their advantages: collective power versus protective of individuals.
02:51 Is China collectivistic and is the West individualistic? No. That view is wrong. China is even more individualistic as the West; and the West is even more collectivistic than China.
05:43 To understand why the West misunderstand China, we need to understand the Chinese and Western circles of trust as explained in my book. The inner circles are the network circles, which are the people you trust, because you have a relationship with them. While the outer circles are the system circles, where people you don't have a relationship with influence your life.
07:11 The inner-circles: This is where China is collectivistic. The relationship society that is build up from guanxi (people you trust). This forms the circles of trust that offers protection in China. People protect people in China.
08:00 The outer-circles: This is where Westerners are collectivistic. The system society that is build out of structure and systems (by people you don't know). This forms the circles of trust that offers protection in the West. Systems and culture protect people in the West.
09:02 The inner-circles: This is where Westerners are individualistic. The relationship between people that you know (the network) is the glue of trust that helps people to progress in life. This forms the circles of trust in the West that offers people around you the support to advance in life.
10:07 The outer-circles. This is where China is individualistic. The system society in China (the Party, the government, the culture,...) is helping the Chinese to progress in life. This forms the circle of trust for most individuals in China where they rely on to advance in life. Chinese trust their system, the people they don't know, will help them individually if they surf on the waves of progress.
12:39 China and Western opposite collective-individualistic model. The circles of trust in China is a mirror image of the Western circles of trust. The Me and the We is not different between China and the West, but the trust of the Me in China is in the system and the trust of the We is in the network and the relationships.
13:56 Why do Chinese trust the system/Party/government? The trust it, because the system, the outer circles of trust, are helping Chinese individuals to progress them more in life than to protect them from others. As pragmatic Chinese seek progress above protection, they trust the system more than we do in the West. They see the system as a way to build a bridge towards a better tomorrow. While Westerners see the system as a damn to protect what we realised so far.
Website: www.pascalcoppens.com/
ABOUT PASCAL COPPENS:
Website: www.pascalcoppens.com
Linkedin: / pacovision
RUclips channel: / pascalcoppens
BOOK - CHINA's NEW NORMAL
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If you want to buy my new book 📕 "Can we Trust China?" you can buy it on Amazon amzn.to/3GWBR7x or on my website www.pascalcoppens.com/shop. The ebook is 2.99 USD (3 Euro) 💻and the paperback book 📖 is at 35USD (30Euro).
There might be a shipping price 📬difference between my website and Amazon, so you might want to check it out for the cheapest way.
@Pascal Coppens douyin should first be understood. douyin is only for making money. in Chinese society, it is mainly about earning as much money as possible as quickly as possible in the shortest possible time.
that 800 million people have been lifted out of poverty is wrong. the CCP itself says "extreme poverty" and not poverty.
@TFWT AOCN You are right as far as extreme poverty. But, actually 500 million people have been lifted out of poverty as well, all belonging to middle class now.
♥️♥️♥️♥️taiwan tibet save india japan♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Nice, Pascal, your levels of understanding keep surprising me.
Hello, I am not appreciated the title "CAN WE TRUST CHINA", because that shouldn't be a question!
The luckily is that the contents in your book sound very insights full with very well knowledge about China and you seem have a very strong willing to tell people the China as you know very well. I am appreciated that very much! And I do believe your book for people who are not already decided to exclude China, from the beginning and for people who are interested in China then your book should be an excellent choice
🙂👏👍.
You can tell from most Asian countries they are more collective society than an individual. Not just China. This can be seen during a meal where all the dishes are served in the middle and they share. Unlike in the west, one plate is for just one person.
It is indeed not limited to China.
I would argue differently. It's not about West or East BUT about "modern" and "conservative" societies. All Westerners also had dishes served in the middle and sharing them on every meal in the past. Most Westerners also had strict moral code such as not exposing their physical body to the public. It's just that "modernity" makes people more individualistic and "outspoken". Nothing about the West and the East. Humans are basically the same.
@@JWscandi if you watch the political Ads of US politicians, no one or rarely any claim to be Liberals but most especially Republicans will claim I Am Conservative xxx.
MINE! My chips MINE!!!!!! ALL MINE!!!! NO Sharing! You want chips you order your own! Om nom nom nom
🤣😂 yes, that clearly shows a greater sense of community and no virtue signaling or posturing. It's not like literally EVERYTHING they do is about "face" and shame 🤔
Many if my Chinese friends have their own businesses. They work very hard and are among the nicest people know.
Everyone should travel to china and see the development including infrastructure, high speed rail, subway systems.
Just hard to travel there these days, but totally agree!
Consider...
That businesses can be taken away at any moment by the CCP. It's happening even to the Ali and Ant groups founded by Jack Ma.
As for HSR and other transportation systems, they are a major reason why China's economy makes little sense and is severely indebted. China doesn't have the technology to build commercial aircraft, so it had to resort to something within its capabilities which is why you see a HSR network that could never make sense or be built anywhere else. HSR might appear to be a wonder of China, but it's also a symbol of China's technological backwardness and forced choice to meet a need with something very expensive and uneconomical that will continue to be a drag on China for decades.
Crackdowns: ruclips.net/video/Smr7TShAaJc/видео.html
Infrastructure: ruclips.net/video/iDiaTvMrKqc/видео.html
Sorry. Too busy to write more.
I think if you took the time to look on the Internet you would find that China is at the moment flight testing its own commercial aircraft while it's huge Military and freight aircraft have been flying for a while, don't apologise for your lack of knowledge of these achievements due the Western MSM never mention these aircraft, by the way "Airbus" of Europe have been building aircraft in China for many years 🤔🤔🤔🏴🏴🏴
@@barrieroberts75 Sorry but I don't understand the point of your comment in relation to mine. It's rather off the mark and without substance.
If you believe China is a peaceful and progressive country, raise your hand ✋🙋🏻♂️👍
Chinese People are Peaceful and Progressive Everywhere.
Excellent, from Mr. Coppens, who lived & prospered in China for many Years!!
Thanks Mark!
Pascal book are very interesting, as he's very knowledgeable on what he wrote. If people who are interested in the West and China, you need to buy this book to have better knowledge.
Thanks! Appreciate your feedback!
When one speaks with a sincere heart, the presentations are alway easy to understand.
Western system makes few people wealthy and the rest are workers.
China system wants everyone to be wealthy regardless of entrepreneurs or workers.
Everyone should read this book.👍👍👍
Thanks Elmer! Appreciated.
Yet the rich and poor ratios are not that different. 🤔
The CCP feels entitled to bribes and corruption. Soon the world will see how much they have stolen when the poor rise up as they realize CCP has destroyed their savings!
@@Monkey_rawr have you being to China?
You are obviously a victim of western medias propaganda. For the sake of your own future, it is important to have correct informations.
I have been living in China for nearly 30 years. It has always been a purpose of mine to bridge the understanding between China and my home country the USA. I just heard about your RUclips and your new book from Cyrus Janssen, just bought the book and looking forward to reading it.
Thanks! Great that Cyrus has mentioned my book.
people like you with such hopes and wishes are exceptional people
In China, the society is closed but the people are open-minded.
In the United States, the society is open but the people are close-minded.
I don't see the world and people as open and closed as much, but I agree that the West is more closed minded than most Westerners think, and China more open minded than most Westerners think as well.
The parable that is most commonly reinforced in Chinese society when growing up (Han or otherwise) is that of chopsticks. I can't remember the philosopher but basically one chopstick can be easily broken, A whole bunch not so.
And recent history has proven this with century of humiliation when China was later divided bc Qing central govt ossified and was backward. The country got sub divided by west predatory powers.
Chinese know this. Southern regions have rebellious dialect groups which are tantamount to different countries in their own right and different language cultures. The North has Mongols, Koreans, Uyghurs to the West, Hui, Kazakh, Tajiks, Tibetans then there is the myriad tribes in Yunnan South west, even Mandarin is different from Sichuan to North or Dongbei.
The strength of modern day China is the collective effort of all these citizens of China that pull together their best assets and leverage on the sheer heft of China.
You only have to look at the benefits of China's own single market which is arguably a far more advanced notion of what Europe tried to embark on, that gives China the bargaining weight to make deals to entice Western companies to invest and transfer knowledge to it when it was developing earlier, in exchange for market access.
This is one of the fundamental differences in China's favour that is not often talked about bc West prefers to imagine China steals everything when in reality their own companies give everything up in exchange for massive profits (Greed)
Most Chinese are sophisticated to understand this basic bargain. Westerners tend to prefer a fictitious narrative (particularly US) that it was a one way street and they were helping China purely from charity.
This is a fantastic model and analytic frame to understand the cultural differences and perspectives between the WEST and CHINA. Thanks Pascal!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you Pascal Coppens
My pleasure!
Pascal, I was up all night following the rocket launche to the China Space Station. CGTN. It was Beautyfull. Nowhere in the news.
I was interviewed for CCTV talking about that as well ;-) content-static.cctvnews.cctv.com/snow-book/video.html?item_id=13129871457413173906&t=1654503657962&toc_style_id=video_default&share_to=wechat&track_id=265195c6-ee73-4785-9e0a-c4e4890bc723
Pascal, bedankt voor comment en beelden. Prachtig.
I understood the illustration on the cover right away, and it's a very concise way to depict China's mantra. Chinese people value democracy and freedom just like everyone else, however, the perception and definition of both are slightly different from the western ones. Impressive! 👍👍👍👍
Thanks! Appreciated!
Difficult!
1. Western countries don't teach their kids about Chinese history. Actually as I know in France kids only learn French history and a little of other countries's modern history. This lack of knowledge about other countries won't help at all to understand other culture. In China kids start learning world history at junior high school, and they learn it as a overall view to understand the development of the whole world.
2. Western politicians focus too much on idealogy and don't stop smearing China for different political or financial reasons.
3. Western medias have been following the political idealogical streams overwhelmingly for too long time. People in the west have been completely brainwashed. Many of them when they luckily have a chance to visit China for real, are totally surprised by the reality.
4. The US cannot lose the game, so it is using all kinds of fake news, disinformation, unjust accusations etc. to badmouth China, and since Europe is its ally and also Europe's security depends on the US army and cannot make its own decision, the gap of misunderstanding is going to be only bigger. Look at the Ukraine situation, Europe sanctioning Russia only hurt Europe the most, it's just like you pick up a rock to throw on your own foot to threaten your enemy. But Europe is doing it, because the US is telling Europe to do it! The US has been painting China so dark that when it decides it's China, Europe will pick a bigger rock!
Honestly I am becoming very pessimistic.
Thanks for the feedback. Most of your points are described in my book, and I our views seem to be aligned for most parts. The reason I wrote my book is however because I believe more and more Westerners are now searching for different answers beyond what most Western media have been writing about China lately. People are starting to question what is true and what is not as their own governments are not able to give them much hope these days.
USA most certainly could loose the game! Just that they don’t want to, and doing everything, ethical or not, to avoid that!
@@tsuikr Agreed. thucydides trap
1. Kids have limited time at school so learning their own history and a little of everything is all that can be achieved. I am interested to know what european chinese kids get taught? Smearing China is very very minor in european politics. He doesn't get votes and very few people care. The fact that the CCP really don't like it is telling. Does America care China smears them - no they don't. Western media is free and open. You get all sorts of views and opinions. You don't get any criticism of Xi in the Chinese press or of CCP policies. The europeans are not lapdogs of America. recent Chinese and Russian behavior is making a lot easier fot America to rally her allies. Thinking the europeans just follow America is dis-respecting those democracies. Just like Wolf Warrior the europeans are getting use to it now. Who would you rather follow. A country that you share common values and belief, a common culture and history. Or one that you don't. Not even mutual respect.
Generally I agree what you say but there is one question in my mind and it is ; Does the Europe need to to unite and ask for the help of NATO against Russia or actually to prevent the wars among themselves? (Remember world wars and go back to Eurpe's history)
As the most democratic or so-called or self proclaimed most democratic country in the world such as USA, most Americans don't think they have much real impact in the country. At least many polls or surveys are showing that.
To understand the thinking and motivations of Adrain Zenz (on whose views many of the smears and misconceptions are based), a fundamentalist evangelical responsible for much of these smears, we have to go back to the McCarthyist era and the geopolitics after WWII, and how it affected evangelical groups and their ideology all over the world. In America, anticommunism was the rallying cry, while in communist countries at the time, governments were clashing with churches which they saw as conduits of foreign interference and influences. Unfortunately, it resulted in imprisonment of many christians in the Soviet and Chinese blocs. Those who managed to defect to the west were often virulently anti-communist and soon there sprang up, particularly in the 1960s in the US, the dogma that communism and Christianity were incompatible. One saw books such as those by Pastor Wurmbrand, a Romanian Evangelical Lutheran priest, attacking communism as founded by Karl Marx whom he branded a "Satanist". His 18 books and many lectures helped to sow the idea that communism is the anti-Christ and ultimate Evil. There were, of course, many other christian writers who jumped on the band wagon. Many even started "missions" to fight communism, although much of the money built offices and paid staff in the west. Many evangelical groups lapped it all up, and there was great loathing at communism. Money from evangelicals poured in to finance projects to fight communism and aid churches in communist countries. Few actually bothered to find out the facts and think through the various issues in the context of world history and, in particular, the role churches have played in western imperialism. As a result, the mantra, "Communism evil, west good", is a deeply ingrained dogma among many evangelical religionists (you can hardly call them Christians) today. Zenz comes from the stream of such believers, and has drunk deeply the ideology and politics of the movement, particularly the anti-communist narratives. His books and lectures about the belief in the Rapture and its associated consequences show how wonky his exegesis and hermeneutics can be. His methodology is carried over into the way he "researched" the Xinjiang evidence. Make no mistake; his choice of focus on Xinjiang was no accident. It was something he could use to attack China. It was a well-conceive plan - first to write a spurious thesis about Uyghur culture to gain a PhD, and then set himself up as an "expert" on Xinjiang, and then to attack China using the Uyghurs. Unsurprisingly, he has found a ready audience among churches and politicians, both extremely gullible and addicted to dogma. It is all very sad and almost completely misguided. True, there were bad policies by communist regimes. Some people were unfairly persecuted, but it has to be pointed out that it was NOT only christians who suffered. More non-christians were probably among the victims of the general paranoia in both the west and communist countries. Non-communists suffered in the west during the McCarthyist purge. Neither should we forget that anti-communist purge supported and aided by the USA killed millions in Indonesia, Chile, Vietnam, and other countries. Thankfully, one hopes, the era of looking at things as black and/vs white is nearly over. We are beginning to see that the west is not all it claims to be. Neither is communism in its stark original form. Some churches are even beginning to acknowledge their role in slavery, colonialism and imperial conquests. Communist countries are beginning to feel more confident with allowing religion to flourish, with certain provisos, which is understandable. As for christians, unfortunately, too many cannot shake off the influence of that mantra. It is not too cynical to see that for some so-called christian leaders, anti-communist rhetoric is a money-spinner. Books and lectures pushing such narratives still sell well. Donations keep coming in to help "churches behind the bamboo/iron curtains".
On the part of the communist governments, there is a growing realisation that not all christians are anti-communist and not all churches are smuggling in anti-government ideology. But there are still many attempts - "missionaries" pretending to be teachers or businessmen, "personal evangelists" going in as "tourists", churches distributing devotional literature written in Texas or London which contain implicitly anti-communist narratives and too much overt western culture in the form of anecdotes and illustrations. Churches in communist countries need to understand that they need to stand on their own feet. Accepting western donations to build their church buildings or employ their pastor is not going to help their cause. Neither will supporting the anti-communist ideology of persons like Zenz, Blinken, Boris, Biden, etc., or groups such as ASPI, NED, BBC, CNN, Fox, etc. Christians should seek to uphold the truth and denounce lies and disinformation. But unfortunately, many of them are too lazy or dull to seek the truth. If they don't ask, seek and knock, the truth will always remain closed to them. Even the message of the REAL Gospel of Christ which is completely different to the packaged formulaic version sold to them.
wow. what a great, insightful piece. Learned a lot from you.
Yet another excellent analysis from Pascal!
I have lived in Europe and the US for decades and now ~6 years in China.
Looking at China through western lenses is a big mistake.
Here the government is highly trusted, family and guanxi have a completely different meaning than their western counterparts.
Against common perception, the CPC doesn't interfere with one's life in any way, the police are unarmed and act as big brothers and sisters to the community, and there are no shootings, mass murders, or street violence. (with 1.4B people there are always exceptions).
My wife used to be the "director of discipline" for the CPC at a government-owned corporation in addition to her day job. Sounds scary, right? What it really meant was that if (real case) a manager had a relationship with a secretary whose husband was a driver for the company, my wife would moderate between the parties (if they were CPC members).
CPC membership is not mandatory, but a privilege that isn't even cheap. It is like being an eagle scout. You are held to a higher standard and expected to be a role model to others.
PS. Kindle version of the book purchased.
Thanks Johan for buying the book and your great comment.
I am suggesting your videos to the people who are interested with China! Surprisingly, I had to suggest to my friends who were interested with Ukrainian war! Thanks for the book, I will recomment the book also from now on :) To me it is all about two different ideologies, person first or people first.
Thanks! Really appreciate it!
Congratulations!
Thanks Neil!
Arguably the English language and the word 'Chinese' itself is a handicap toward understanding China.
The West tends to think along Racial divide as is evident in the fragmentation of Europe.
China emphasises Shared civilizational experience of all races within its current polity.
Han is the dominant race but Zhonguo-ren encompasses membership of all the minorities as well.
This is something the blanket word Chinese is imperfect and does understanding of China a disservice.
Often one is asked "do you speak Chinese" in the West but what does that really mean since as mentioned most of the many Southern dialects are as different to each other as European languages.
The one thing they do share in common is the script. Again this is because China as a collective market/political unit is far ahead in history of that of fledgling EU experiment.
The whole advantage of pictoral script in the first place is it does not matter what language you speak, everyone can understand it when written.
This is a fundamental difference in mindset that the West has never got to grasp with.
When they bleat on about sinification of say Tibet, they like to harp on about language lost. Sure Tibetan, Mongolian and Uyghur all have their unique scripts which are still in use to this day.
But the 'sinification' part they refer to is simply everyone in the political union enjoying same access to a common operating language based on the common script.
How else do you expect to advance yourself and work efficient.y in such a large diverse country?
West does not understand China bc it does not want to. It prefers to see it in its own black and white polemic where as China has always operated in far more fluid complex grey zones.
To the Western mind its either this or that like in their fractious politics (as in the US where you generally adhere to one party or other like a religion, there is very few swing voters)
To the Chinese mind, why can't it be both all at at once?
To the Western mind they see democracy as voting for the supreme leader of the regime.
To the Chinese experience it is bottom up, voting for people of character and ability to go into politics under one party but then within that party express different opinions with an emphasis of finding common ground/compromise over constant bickering of opposite positions.
The Western system of picking leadership has no Quality Control and in the case of the US is dictated by popularity contest. China tried that route with KMT and warlord era.
The solution it has is to weed out those unfit by stress test from bottom up until the cream rises to the top over years of toil from village to provincial and eventually governance of the country. It is a different approach which de-emphasis the dualist (As in DUEL) nature of Western democratic systems and concentrates on pushing through actual policy thru a sophisticated but still evolving feed back system.
This is a fundamental lack of effort to understand China's political system and homogenize it by Western terms into stereotypical simplification that inhibits true understanding of what is truly going on in China today which is extremely exciting and new...and in many circumstances works.
The fear of the West of course is fictitious and racist "Yellow Peril" inbred fear which often results in that line "Go back to Chyna"...that fear is unfounded since China has no desire to prescribe what works for itself to others where as the Judeo-Christian Western world prefer self righteousness and Proselytizing.
No one in China expects the West to become like them but the West prefer to project their own faults on China bc that would be what they would do and have been trying to.
China culturally does not have the encumbrance of these sort of absolutist religions as cultural baggage.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Western minds /historical experience/ideology are binary. Everything's either black or white, there's no gray in the middle. but often in life we find most things are neither black nor white. most Chinese understand that but I think the collective west will be doing the same things that they do over and over again and hoping for a different result. That is madness.
Amazing piece you have. Learned a lot from you. Thanks.
Just bought the e-book. Thanks for making it available to EVERYONE. Best of luck in this geo-political environment.
This is a new way to explain the differences! Well done! You had never shown that you are a philosopher too!
Glad you liked it Ken. (Blaise) Pascal has been a philosopher for 400 years ;-)
@@PascalCoppens Now that I have bought you book, and have read all the pre-faces and introductions, and realized that the reason you wrote this book was that many of you (Western?) friends cautioned you if you can trust China! Well, this can be the inspiration for your next book, the soul searching “Can China Trust Us?”.
If you enjoyed this video, raise your hand to show Pascal Coppens your undying support 👍🙋🏻♂️✋
Thanks once again for the support!
@@PascalCoppens you're welcome 👍🙋🏻♂️
Marvellous!
Thanks!
Thank you for sharing your insights. I also like the summary with the timestamps.
Regarding Chinese people trusting their government, I think this is only true in the past few years and also among younger generations. It is because in recent years, the Chinese government has spent a lot of resources to improve the livelihood of the people. In the past, when China was poor, their people knew that the only ways to improve their living were to work hard and save money. They would not expect their government to help them.
That is a very good point. Thanks for sharing!
Congratulations! Looking forward to it!
Bought it and reading.
Individual vs collective. Why do we have to fight each other? It is just a different preference for a different culture. As humans, we all need both Individual and collective to survive. One for all and all for one.
Exactly!
Your videos haven't been reaching me. I had to look up and find your channel, then your new videos weren't there right away.
Glad to get to see you again!
Strange. Glad to hear now
Pasco, Very good presentation! 👍👍👍
Thanks!
Thank you Pascal, for this excellent summary cum introduction to your thought provoking book; I hope many of us get to read it and follow your videos all of which are particularly valuable now that so many of us are having to be more aware of the quality of the abundant information we are surrounded by. The guiding principle for me is our human relatedness, I am looking forward to reading your book about a China that I like to think of as a newly emerging 'Middle Kin-dom'.
Thanks Robert. Appreciated. Once you read it, you would do me a great favour if you were to write a review on Amazon or goodreads.
Yes Pascal sir. You speak so unbiasly and truthfully, thankyou i appreciate.
My pleasure!
After one hundred years of humiliation, most Chinese have learned a painful lesson that says “ without a country one does not exist” Chinese would prefer even an imperfect strong leader to subjugation by foreign powers. The same as your concept of the WE would envelope and protect the ME”
The Chinese psyche is in her language, history and literatures spanning millennia. 国家which is nation, has the word 国 (country) before 家(home). This is collectivism in action; putting country before home and by inference, home before self.
Can you trust China? Every Chinese know this ancient saying "四海之入皆兄弟也" within the four seas, we are all brothers.
Guess this is how the Chinese are wired, more or less. Shalom.
Thanks for sharing! I could have added your 国家 analogy. Thanks!
Pascal is another expert who knows China better than a lot of other so called 'expert' This is an excellent show for those who really want to know the real China.Well done!
Thanks Albert!
I have just bought the e-book. Will read it later, love from Canada.
Thanks! Appreciated! Do write a review on Amazon when done. That would make my day!
Pascol, another good lesson from you 👏
Excellent 👍
Thanks Phil!
Thanks a lot for these new angle to understand the difference between China and Western Europe and US etc.
My pleasure!
Got the book, thank you for the digital book discount Pascal! Works for a student's budget ;)
Excellent!
Many thanks Lily!
My wife is Javanese from Suriname. Family first. Family in the Netherlands, Suriname, Indonesia, Cayenne, USA. Family ties very strong.
Interesting perspective. I have never heard the societal difference between China and the West explained this way before. It is very clear and concise. The WE-ME concentric circles model of the West immediately explains why the west is having cracks in it's society. As the ME part becomes extremely individualistic, rich and powerful, it will use its resources at it's disposal to bend the WE part ( the collective institutions and systems) to it's advantage. A rich powerful ME will not want to be constrained by the collective WE. This can be easily seen in the United States.
Thanks for the great feedback!
Another good video. What do you think will happen with the next standing committee? Since China's economic growth is getting more in line with the West of around 2-5% annually, do you think they'll continue like Hu Jintao and Xi who focus on economic growth as China's primary objective? There's still a possibility with automation and AI that could let China continue its high growth rate. Or could it be possible that one of the younger generations objective like improving social welfare will be prominent in the next standing committee?
Thanks! I don't see GDP being as frantic objective with the next standing committee, but I do believe things like that inflation, food-supply, self-reliance, unemployment, demography, housing, productivity, innovation, ... will be top of the agenda. If Xi gets many of these things progressing, the GDP 5+% growth should be less of a craving. GDP growth is like the faster car every year, but the rest are like the roads to drive the car on. The story will be on the roads, which should enable a new car later - not faster but more energy efficient. That said, both the roads and cars can be aimed for at the same time. But not GDP only. Western media writes about China's debt creation to keep their GDP high, but I don't view that risk as high as it is in US or some European countries for example. It sounds more a projection of Western reality onto China.
@@PascalCoppens
Looking forward, China is more worried about unemployment, food supply and inflation. Unless cornered, the Chinese government will remain self-restrained in the face of American confrontational approach and/or military intimidation. The Americans know that and they will aggressively play their last card -- the Taiwan secessionist movement -- to the best of their ability.
Very impressive, great content! Well done! Pascal. As a Chinese born and grew up in China and living in Germany for more than 20 years, I also learn a lot from this video alone. Thank you!
Thanks! Appreciated!
Overseas Chinese depended on the Guangxi for their prosperity goals.
And also, Divick Origi is a legend.
Haha that casual jab at Chinese football 😂
Interesting view point.
Thanks
Well said, Pascal. 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Alberto! Looking forward to our streaming interview!
interesting perspective. not sure if it over generic, but fairly original. at least i hear this first time here.
US NGO, National Endowment for Democracy was behind the riots in Hong Kong.
Cant wait to read the new book thanks as always for the insightful video about china
Glad you enjoyed it! As you read the new book, a review would be fantastic!
Great presentation!!
Thanks
Hi Pascal, I just finished your book and really enjoyed having your insights on China. My only criticism would be that there are many repetitions throughout the book (let's say it's for the sake of conveying the message) and you chose to use imperial measures while more people on earth use metric...
I do not like this concept of 'the West', which seams to exist only when the US and its clique needs the Europeans... As a French, my system here ( social security, state owned enterprises...) seems often closer to China than to the US. Europeans and Americans (or Australians) are really culturally different. So the constant reference to the West is a bit annoying ar times. And we understand very quick the 'we' in the title is 'the West'. Points of views from other cultures / areas would have been welcome (the 'South', or Africa, or South Asia...) on whether they can trust China too...
Anyway, I agree with almost all you wrote, I was even surprised how some of your conclusions were spot on with my opinions, such as the danger to decouple from China since we won't know what coming our way later...
I strongly recommend this book to have a better understanding of what China IS today, because too many people in Europe have a really biased and outdated view of China, at a point which is becoming almost funny, if it were not that worrying.
Just to illustrate, I had a recent debate about the best nations for trains, and people were coming up with Japan, Korea, France... I just reminded (or informed) that China had already 40000 km of high speed railways, and still building... (dropped the mic) Some people had no clue China even had high speed trains... Same with space exploration: nobody knew China had a rover on Mars and an orbital space station...
We are more connected and informed than ever, and still there is so much ignorance around us, it's crazy.
That's why your work is important, Pascal, thanks!
Thanks a lot for this very nice review on my book. Would you be so kind to leave a review on Amazon or Goodreads?
Here is some feedback on your criticism in the book, which I do share and appreciated.
As far as imperial measures instead of metric system, this was a long debate with my U.S. publisher. For the Dutch version of my book I used metrics...it actually took me some time to check and convert all.
I totally agree that WE and the West is not the best concept to express people and regions who are generally aligned to a more distrusting view of China - knowing that they differ much in culture and mindset. Australia, France, America, Servia and Norway are very different indeed. I decided however to not split up all countries and their viewpoint of China as it would have become a mess for the reader or too niche-academic for its purpose of a general audience.
I added this exact concern you raise in my introduction as a disclaimer. "By using the word “we” in the title of my book, I’m actually already guilty of binary thinking. Because “we” is in direct contrast to “they”, which is polarizing. Why not call it: How to Trust China? And who do I mean by “we” anyway? I decided to leave the title unchanged because I want to start from a polarizing position and the reality of today’s society. It is precisely this “us” versus “them” narrative that I want to address and break through in order to extract the arguments from our own echo chambers. So, who we and they are doesn’t actually matter. “We” is anyone who is more likely to mistrust, reject, or condemn the actions and intentions of China and the Chinese. So “we” can also be Chinese people, and “they” can also be Westerners. In the book I sometimes use “Westerners” or “West” to mean “we” and vice versa. The intention of this is not to set the West up against China, but to represent the dominant opinion of the West as different from the general opinion in China. Here, “the West” corresponds to the average opinion of a resident of the European Union or of a region with a significant presence of European migrants since the fifteenth century, from North America to Australia. “Westerners” doesn’t refer to any ethnic group. And beyond the West and China, there are still over five billion people whose trust in China and the West can’t be generalized at all."
I do emphasise it may at time be a little annoying to always talk about the West or We.
So interesting lecture.
Glad you liked it!
👍👍👍👌👌👌✌️✌️✌️👏👏👏
Congrats to the new book published, appreciated your perspective on China
Thanks!
Probably the best explanations for the difference between the two cultures. None is better than the other. It all depends upon time and place.
Yes but one side is just getting on with it's future with helping it's citizens get out of poverty and enhance the strength and prosperity of their nation with no thoughts of been Number one 🤔🤔🏴🏴🏴
I totally agree wholeheartedly
Thanks!
Individual rights versus collective responsibility
The eternal life debate which will be solved by compromise and head on collision if not reached!!!
Your model explains a lot of the fundamental differences between mindset of China and the West. I would like to add that your model also has an origin from the way histories have developed in the East and the West.
Similar to Europe, China has been a large area home many different tribes and peoples speaking different languages and customs since ancient times. Throughout many periods in Chinese history, lands were rules by warlords and many states were formed from north to south and from east to west. However, the first Emperor of China conquered all of China and unified as one country. This marked a significant turning point from which the different tribes and peoples in China came to realize they could actually work quite effectively and defend against foreign invasion such as the invasion from mongols for many centuries. This is the start of how 56 different ethnic groups in China came together and worked to forming and maintaining a large country.
But a different route seemed to have taken its course in Europe where people form independent states based on similar demographics. This is why Europe has some 44 countries. They try to cooperate as peacefully as possible based on mutual respect but they each develop in the way it sees fit for itself. I would imagine if the Roman Empire would last just a few more centuries more, Europe might develop quite differently than the way we see nowadays. As Europe never had a powerful emperor that had united all of it for more than 2000 years, no European had seen the benefits of all working together as one single nation. The concept of EU is trying to bring every European nation to closer ties and cooperation but unfortunately the US has done a lot to make sure the EU is never powerful enough to challenge the biggest hegemony country.
While China did unify under the Chin it soon broke apart, reformed broke apart again then reformed (repeat). At various times China had Tibet and Xinjiang under it's control but not all. Taiwan only for the last dynasty. Europe has had people who tried to unite (conquor) europe but failed. Because the various people didn't want to be dominated by one country. Adolf Hitler was the last person to try. By the way 'Rome' did exist for a few centuries longer in Byzantium. Which finally fell in 1453 to the Ottomons. Who also tried to conquor large parts of Europe. European and Chinese history is more similar than you think. The EU is successful and bringing Europe together like NATO. US doesn't see the EU as a military threat like China but does have commercial differences with the EU. China by far is a bigger threat to the EU while Russia is to NATO. China like to treat countries on bilateral terms where it has many advantages. Punishing Lithuania and supporting Russia are examples of this.
@@Andy-P You don't need to tell me the histories to me. I simply tried to point out the Chinese somehow could remain as one nation given the history they had while the Europeans adopted a different path. I am not surprised the EU and US are close allies given a shared ancestral root. Whether China is a threat or not is another topic but here Pascal shares the different models the East and the West have. If you think a mirror image of We and Me is a threat, that's your own opinion. I like to think every human can live together peacefully if we try to understand each other more and not see aother person or country as a threat. I am very scared of you...
@@linphilip6389 There is no need to be scared of me.
@@Andy-P not fond of people talking about threat. Pascal puts up this video to let his audience understand the way China and the West think in terms of individual and collective mindset. The models are essentially about the same set of values but with different emphasis only. I think its great for people to understand this and if we can respect each other so the world can be a better place for all mankind.
@@Andy-P Andy, I have to correct some information you provided on China. I counted from wikipedia the number of years China was not united under one emperor. I should point out that Qin (you wrote it as Chin) was not the first "dynasty" with a single throne (there were 3 dynasties before it) although admittedly the size of the country was small during the Xia/Shang/Zhou (2070 BC - 256 BC).
At the end of Zhou empire the country was split into "Spring & Autumn Warring States for 549 years. Qin reunited it.
At the end of Han it was split up into "Three Kingdoms" for 60 years.
At the end of Jin there were the "16 Kingdoms for a period of 161 years.
At the end of Tang there were the "5 Dynasties & 10 Kingdoms" for a period of 53 years.
Therefore in the thousands of years of Chinese history it was not united for a total of 823 years.
I do not see similarity in the European history.
Again according to wikipedia Taiwan was annexed in 1683 by Qing dynasty. This is surely more than a century ago. True that it was ceded to Japan in 1895.
The China model versus the US model...which is better? You said one isn't better than the other; they're just different.
However, there is one argument I can make to support the notion that the China model is "better": *The China model delivers the goods to the people.*
What do I mean by this? Over the past four decades, the Chinese have seen their quality of life *steadily improve* while the Americans have seen their quality of life *steadily decline* .
There is no shortage of media sources that expose US decline in quality of life, so I won't get into it here.
My thesis is that from the standpoint of *pragmatic outcome for the people* - prosperity, health care, housing, education, safety from crime and gun violence, safety from a pandemic, infrastructure, etc. - China has seen dramatic improvement and USA has seen terrible decline. Daily life depends on pragmatic outcome, not ideology. The ability to vote for a leader does not put bread on the table and a roof over your head.
China is amazing
So many different ways to describe two different mindsets.
Chinese are willing to surrender more personal rights to the government because they believe that maximizing collective interests can lead to maximizing personal interests.
They truely believe "with great power comes great responsibility", so with all that power the government should takes the "ultimate responsibility", the government must take care everyone, everything in the country.
感谢！这个视频解决了很大的疑惑😆确实，如果集体需要我的信息，我很乐意提供，因为我认为集体收益的同时，我也会受益。但西方则对大集体更加提防
Hi, what do you think of Bai lan?
I am not a big believer that this will change much. It is like Tang ping (lying down) trend. For me, these are more exceptions than trends. They are real, but only those who can really afford to do so, are giving up. Most Chinese are still in upward mobility mindset. Simply said, I believe 'creative China' will become way more powerful that 'lazy China' with Gen-Z.
@@PascalCoppens Thank you for your answer.
Democracy as practice in America is not working well. What used to be the “one man one vote” system has turn into “one dollar one vote” as the Supreme Court has decided corporations are people too.
Money controls policy more than the reverse in the U.S. it seems
In most cases it's a matter of degree. Not much things are totally black or white.
Pascal book are very interesting
Thanks!
The collective should serve the individuals and the individuals should serve the collective in a virtuous circle... whatever the system or culture. The collective has to be the majority. When the collective is the minority, then it is the start of a vicious circle.
Thanks for sharing
Whether your model gets it right or not, it’s definitely an open mind model. With open mind, the model can be improved to reflect the reality better than biased models. (Because the Chinese culture is seriously mixed with if not challenged by international cultures, a good model should be able to predict what are the likely outcomes of the evolving Chinese culture. Will it contain most if not all the characteristics your identified.)
The model is simplified of course, as most models are. To get some more depth, you can read my book as I share lots of content on many topics people tend to have a unidirectional view of.
As I'm listening to this video,
IMO the Collective vs Individualistic aregument is getting off to a bad start.
Pascal is only considering basic human imperatives, suggesting that individuals in China display plenty of individualistic behaviors, and that collectiveness in the West has plenty of examples as well.
I'd say that ignores the ultimate power in both societies. China has autocratically cracked down on individuals and industries plenty of times in recent years for political purposes. You won't see that in the West although politics is so encompassing that some might try to argue that online censoring is the same. But, it's not. Censoring disinformation is done by filtering non-political methods based on apolitical proof of whether something is factual or not. Facts may not be fully known at any time so it's possible to change the filter, but the process is very different than simply labeling opinion or discussion as Left, Right, Conservative, Liberal or associated with a political party and thought and censoring on that alone.
An autocracy like China is very different where it's illegal to criticize the CCP and its institutions.
Borrowing from Pascal's own phrase, we are mirror societies except that one is the opposite of the other.
Tony, I made a longer video to explain some of these facts you describe, but did not want to post it to keep it digestible.
I just gave 2 examples of China being individualistic and the West being collectivistic to destroy the general image of how we view each other's society. I did not do that to state that China is more individualistic than the West - which it is not.
As for China controlling industries and individuals, I made more YT videos about that earlier to explain why this happens and how to read it. It fits in my model that Beijing will help ALL Chinese to improve in life, and in order to do that, some individuals and some companies will suffer (in that process). Being autocratic does not mean that Beijing does not care about Chinese people. I explain that in more detail in my book. For the West we want to fair to EVERY individual by protecting EVERYone from ALL bad actors with a transparant system; while China wants to progress ALL Chinese individuals by excluding out EVERY bad actor and risk in an often not very transparant manner. One day, ALL individuals in China will include EVERY Chinese, but that is a journey not finished yet.
My point being that if we see Beijing as an authoritarian controlling top-down system that intends to harm individuals to maintain their own control, we are projecting our Western model and Western history of control system and dictators onto China.
In the West it it also not allowed to criticise their Capitalistic System.
@@thecomment9489 Absolutely it is allowed. In the west you can criticise everything & anything. For some journalists criticising the government or the opposition is a full time job. They don't end up in jail and are not consored. In the west there are some on the left (socialist) who wish for more state intervention like China.
@@Andy-P Some journalists like Assange you mean to say? And pretend-criticism I think.
@Taiwan Isnotacountry Wrong. In English everyone knows what the CCP is. It's like using the word hoover when you mean vacume cleaner.
In the west people believe that. be good and God will give you what you want,,,in the Eastern we believe God give you what you hate. Because God want you to learn to love.
Human has two aspect individual and collective
6-D model Geert Hofstede
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Selling book?
As it is my own writings, I am fine with it. At 3 USD for eBook, it is not a money thing.
Send a copy of your book to Obama, Biden and others similar. Is matter of understanding and respecting other cultures not trying to change them. US doesn't respect any other culture.
Good idea. Maybe I should.
@@PascalCoppens Yes, please!
当你有一定量的信息做为锚点时，你的决策才能是有建设性的。这种巨量信息量，个人是完全收集不到的。所以西方的大公司可以运用手段获得，从而有效的做判断，但他只服务于公司利益。在中国，政府可以得到这些前沿信息，还有更多的专家来参谋，得出的规划往往是更具战略性，而他们的计划是服务整个中国人民的。因为在中国，政府的合法性来源于，现政府是否做了有益于人民的事。所以，西方社会的本体是公司推动社会，从而更有利于公司。中国社会是为了全体中国人民的利益，任何人、任何机构都不能阻碍这一事情。
China's cultural soul is confucianism that says it all about Chinese people who has 5,000 year history.
excellent book, would be subtitled..
" How debunk lies about China", compliments Pascal
Thanks!
有国才有家
congratulation on your new book sir ! we are really appreciate your hard work to be able write books ! there is a common words of say ! without having a healthy country then ! you can not have a proper home !
Thanks! True!
Why don't U use the Word Communist = Unity is Strength
I understand communist more as egalitarianism, which China is definitively not.
Can we trust China, you have to write a book to explain. Can we trust America, you don’t need a book, the answer is ‘NO’.
The current world is not so simple as shown in your diagram and talk.
Our world consists of existing faculties such as ideologies, alliances, religion, culture, infectious diseases, health, wealth and others
We are living in a very dangerous world where 3rd world war of mass destruction can happen anytime and anywhere.
It is no longer an ideological struggle between autocracies and democracies.
True, but as few of us can still grasp the complexity anymore, a simple model can make a big difference to understand a world that is quite different for many people in the Western world. That is the case for any model of society.
Even though China is an authoritarian society Xi has enormous problems with the policy of internal circulation, the distribution wealth to the people and the demand side of the economy. This is due to vested interests at the local level. The CCP at that level do not their power diminished which internal circulation will do. Also the zero covid policy isn't universally supported now, but is universally carried out.
One other misunderstanding of China is indeed that many in the West believe China is only central control, while as you say correctly, the country is very decentralised, and Xi needs to balance that well to keep helping the internal circulation of wealth to the people.
@@PascalCoppens Xi has a good idea here and if he succedes then it will be a massive achievement.
It is very difficult to centrally control a vast and diverse country. In the old days, when there was no electronic communication, just to send a message from the capital to the outplaying areas easily took six months, a lot had to rely on the local governments in-spite of a centralized government. That’s why the Chinese saying 山高王帝遠！
@@PascalCoppens Decentralized might not be completely accurate. Decentralized only in the sense that local governments make plenty of local decisions, but the local governments are empowered with the same autocratic authority of the Central Committee, which means that CCP influence and power is unchallenged even at the local level and national Central policy is extended and implemented consistently everywhere. So is that decentralization? Most people would define that the authority to make independent decisions is decentralized but that obviously isn't happening in China.
@@tsuikr I have read that is still the case. Hence difficulties in enforcing some policies at the local level.
Yes, but until you start talking about xyz… (you know what I mean). In other words, your model is wrong.
I don't expect everyone to accept the model.
Lol...pascal, u talked about European opening their doors to Ukrainian...but shut the doors to afghani and syrian...why? Hahahhahaha
Because we are selective in who is included and who not in our collective mind. I didn't say altruistic to all people in the world. 😉
@@PascalCoppens in some corner if the world, it can be seen as quite a racist policy... Considering their contribution that caused it in the 1st place.
@@112313 Many Westerners also put up the flag of Ukraine in support, until it's almost recognizable everywhere in the West today. But if you show those same Westerners the flag of Afghanistan, flag of Syria, flag of Yemen, flag of Iraq, etc, I'll bet you they won't recognize those countries that've gone through war like Ukraine.
People in HK are so free to live freely and equally in the pigeon cages where they feel very free to be under the control of some rich real estate companies who gave the choice of where to live. Wow
To say that China is Progressive misses the point.
China's autocracy is based on Centralized Planning which is a very different path than how Progressive government works in the US, as an example of liberal democracy.
So, for instance of the 50 states of the United States, about half the states might be considered Progressive and lean towards Liberal Democracy policies while the other half consider themselve Conservative and anti-Progressive. In general Progressive might be considered a measure of the government's willingness to change things, and likely requires investment of the People's collected funds to build infrastructure and provide benefits that result in a better future while Conservatives might believe that only individual capitalism can efficiently produce a better tomorrow.
It should be noted that Progressiveness is not central to CCP philosophy, and in recent years there are plenty of instances and examples of the CCP stepping off the path of Progressiveness and emphasizing consolidation of its grip on national politics. Numerous Internet related companies and individual celebrities have been discredited and their status diminished in recent years simply because the CCP felt threatened. Corruption plays no small part in many of these instances but an argument can also be made that corruption is the same everywhere so in the absence of that being a special trait of these targets, it's not the central reason for earning the ire of the CCP.
To say that the US and China both practice equal and similar parts of Collectivism and Individualism, and that China's government is beloved because it's Progressive while in the US there is just chaols is... not a true and real analysis. Else, China would not be the #2 economy in the world with RE development making up 29% of its GDP while the US is the #1 economy in the world with leaders in practically every technology despite a much smaller population.
One example is the common misunderstanding of China being a centralised planning economy. China is a very decentralised entrepreneurial society that appreciates clear guidance and planning to move even faster and avoid chaos. Tony, I appreciate your feedback, but do not have time to reply on the many topics you cover here. I described most in my book. I write about innovation, corruption, infrastructure, crackdowns, ...
You don't really talk about the hundreds of internment camps to imprison innocent chinese muslims in Xinjiang. What are your thoughts on that?
I talk about Uyghurs in my book. Too much to share here
@@PascalCoppens thanks Pascal! I will have to check out the book, your take on it will definitely be well-considered as the rest of your work.
And, I thought the Dodo was extinct
Terrible. IMO👎
Thanks for teaching me what a Dodo is.
He talks like he is on the CCP payroll!
You are a great troll. Thanks for letting us know you are one without looking at some truth and learning about the real chinese culture. You can continue to be biased, discriminating against Chinese people.
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